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Date: 04/11/13 11:25 AM

24 Responses to Fact Check: Violent Crime Rates [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of hfnv
    hfnv Male 18-29
    42 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 11:25 am
    Link: Fact Check: Violent Crime Rates - If you beat up Statistics enough, they`ll confess to anything.
  2. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 11:56 am
    Yeah, but you can use facts to prove anything even remotely true
  3. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36697 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape.
    Statistics don`t lie.
  4. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    the first clue is the first statement lists a statistic for murder, the second is not murder but violent crimes. Its hard to take someone seriously with such an obvious equivocation is made.
  5. Profile photo of Langer
    Langer Male 18-29
    394 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm
  6. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 12:32 pm
    @tedgp

    When will you stupid americans learn that the UK class a whole host of crimes as "violent", while the US consider them minor.
    My friend, I think you`ve missed the entire point of this post.
  7. Profile photo of WizardofCOR
    WizardofCOR Male 40-49
    155 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 12:43 pm
    Poorly made, and wrong on multiple levels. Chimmeychang nails down one of several pertinent points. Even attempting to compare stats from different countries is an epic fail, due to a variety of other variables; local/national economics, forms/systems of law & government, and cultural/societal factors.
  8. Profile photo of sparki1980
    sparki1980 Male 30-39
    329 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    WizardofCOR: "Chimmeychang nails down one of several pertinent points. Even attempting to compare stats from different countries is an epic fail"

    chimmeychang: "the first statement lists a statistic for murder, the second ... violent crimes"

    I got stuck on the same thing as chimmey for a min, then I decided to read the entire thing. It actually is well done.

    The 1st part (where chimmey and myself at first got stuck) of the picture is showing you 2 facts that both sides of the gun debate have used. They are facts, that (a) US homicide rate is 4x UK homicide rate, common argument from antigun and (b) UK has more "violent crime" incidents than the US, common argument from progun side.

    Then the artist attempts to figure out how these 2 counter arguments can come from the same data. (spoiler, UK has a broader def of "violent crime"). Then the artist grabs the UK numbers for crimes that equal the US definition o
  9. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    wow...you guys honestly didn`t get this?

    @sparki1980, good to see some signs of life out there
  10. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32844 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 5:09 pm
    If you look at who`s actually killing whom in the USA? It`s not all that different a rate than Europe for MOST Americans:



    Race-based gangs in huge cities are responsible for MOST murders in the USA. Black on Black murder is the same number (apx) despite being 1/4 of the size!

    And this chart shows: The more "gun laws" you have? The higher the murder rate... for Blacks anyhow.

    "America" is a really big place, all sorts of people living in very different ways...
  11. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    Jesus Christ 5cats, are you really going to go and blame this on race?

    It has nothing to do with `race` or `racial culture.` It`s a simple matter of history and socio-economics. It`s the fact that they`re in poor, urban areas rather than their race. White people in the same setting are just as violent. The reason that poor urban areas have the highest concentrations of the black population is because their ancestors were SLAVES, and upon freedom had NOTHING to start with! Then the process of climbing back up has been hindered by racism, prolonging it.

    God damn, dude.
  12. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32844 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm
    White people in the same setting are just as violent.
    No, they are not.

    is because their ancestors were SLAVES,
    That is bullshiite.

    and upon (gaining) freedom had NOTHING to start with!
    The majority of my ancestors had -literally- the shirt on their back when they came "over the ocean". We did OK.

    the process of climbing back up has been hindered by racism,
    As were many of my ancestors: Germans, Gypsies, Greeks, Mennonites & etc. EVERY ethnic group has been or is currently discriminated against.

    What "causes" violence is NOT "poverty" ffs! It`s GREED!
    Drugs are the #2 "cause": the "War On Drugs" is to blame, exactly like "prohibition" fueled the "Mafia Gangs" of Al Capone and 100 others.

    I`m NOT "blaming race" at all, grow up dude!
  13. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3447 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 7:28 pm
    5Cats is one of the most intelligent people on the site.
  14. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 7:59 pm
    @5cats
    -Empty assertion. Where`s your proof. The economic disadvantage and social prejudice involved with coming from a subjugated part of the population are completely negligible?
    -Anecdotal. Plus, they were white.
    -Again, white. It`s different. It`s not as recent or as intense. Gypsies were never enslaved in the US. Nobody can claim that status except for Blacks and Native Americans. The groups you mentioned were not kidnapped and brought over en masse in the hulls of ships.

    Ugh. Nice bit of rhetoric there, but you need to face the realities of life. Sure, poverty doesn`t directly and unfailingly cause crime. However it creates an environment full of desperate, stressed, under-educated people. Not everyone is going to respond to that in a dignified manner. That`s just a sad fact.

    How are you not "blaming race"? How am I the one being immature? You stated in no uncertain terms that you believe black people are more prone to crime for reasons not
  15. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    for reasons not independent of race. Quite literally, I suggested an alternative wherein the differences in crime rate have to do with the social and economic status of the minority in question, resulting from their history of subjugation in our society, and you said that it is not, and that white people put in the same conditions would behave better.

    That leaves nothing other than the assumption that race determines your personality.
  16. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32844 posts
    April 11, 2013 at 9:27 pm
    @DrProfessor: *sigh*
    I consider you one of the "good liberals" here at IAB, you usually make good sense and have intelligent things to say, even if I disagree with them!
    Here? Nope.

    FBI Database Page

    It`s a fact: Blacks kill about as many times as Whites do.
    BUT!
    They make up only 17% of the USA`s population!
    Is it "racist" to say this? NOPE! It`s a fact, Jack!
    I do not know or care WHY they kill so often. The ONLY stat that counts is: they DO!

    Thus all that CRAP about "poverty" and "Slavery" (Really dude? O`Really?) is 100% MOOT! It doesn`t MATTER!

    You have stats that show "poor whites" kill/crime as much as "Drug Gang Blacks"? Show it!
    Either that or LEARN how to comprehend statistical analys
  17. Profile photo of New_Guy
    New_Guy Male 30-39
    406 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 2:27 am
    OMG forcing your cat to do your dirty work.!
  18. Profile photo of mikesex
    mikesex Male 60-69
    115 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 8:14 am
    Let`s see. There`s lies, damned lies...and anyone remember the rest!
  19. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:02 am
    It`s not racist to state that it happens, it`s racist to assume that their race is naturally violent. The "why" is the most important part, because once you know why you can work on solving it.
  20. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:11 am
    And here`s a scholarly article

    I might only be able to access it because my college has an account with the JSTOR website, but essentially the paper examines the question of whther similar communities produce similar crime rates refardless of race. It`s a pretty thick read, but it backs up what I`ve been saying.
  21. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 9:12 am
    regardless* that is
  22. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32844 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 10:11 am
    @DrProfessor: Gee I was grumpy last night, sorry for being rude. I have to stop taking all those "grumpy pills" eh?

    You link costs $36 dollars ;-) But I get the idea.

    I think drugs and BOOZE are the biggest reasons people are poor, and the main motivator for crimes. Rates of substance abuse vary from group to group, and pretending "group X" doesn`t have a problem isn`t going to help them.

    There have been "ethnic" gangs since the dawn of time, it`s got nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with "lifestyle choices".
  23. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 6:39 pm
    Oh, look what happens when women have guns.

    http://tinyurl.com/yaozgb

    I guess rape isn`t a big issue for those of you who want to grab them.

    Given that all these shooting sprees are committed by men, why should any new legislation apply to women?
  24. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    April 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm
    I mean, the US has lower rape stats than most of Western Europe and those below the US have very low numbers, what do you think is making them keep it in their pants?

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