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Date: 04/01/13 06:06 PM

84 Responses to Daniel Dennett: Religion Is Like `The Common Cold`

  1. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:07 pm
    Link: Daniel Dennett: Religion Is Like `The Common Cold` - `Or a virus, from which we need to be cured.`
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36659 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    I agree, religions are unnecessary and not useful. We don`t need magic to make us feel protected anymore.
  3. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:20 pm
    Well, they do say religion without science is lame, and science without religion is blind. Looks like another guy proved the point. Religion or faith in God is a cure for a lot of people in this world, has been for generations, will be for the times to come. After all, its main root is "Love one another" and this is cure for many of the ailments this world is plagued with.
  4. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    If anything, the `virus` or `common cold` we face as a human race is outlined in Galatians 5:19-21
  5. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:24 pm
    "All religions are true but none are literal." - Joseph Campbell

    I think both believers and atheists alike can learn from that.
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36659 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    TheGuySmiley "Love one another" ?
    Really? You think that`s what religion is really about?
    Well they`re loving us to death.
  7. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:10 pm
    Gerry, thats the main root of a true religion. You`ll find a lot of loving, sincere, and caring people in congregations that uphold that root.
  8. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:22 pm
    This guy is dead on. Religion is a parasitic disease that needs to be purged from our society. Only then can we all grow as humans and embrace the sciences that will carry us forward into the future. As long as we cling to the 2000 year old myths and magics, we will be forever locked in the dimwitted haze of blindness that is religion.
  9. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36659 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    GuySmiley "You`ll find a lot of loving, sincere, and caring people in congregations that uphold that root."
    That`s just lip service. They say that, the read it in the text, but their actions outside that 1 hour a week in church are a lot different.
  10. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:36 pm
    "As long as we cling to the 2000 year old myths and magics, we will be forever locked in the dimwitted haze of blindness that is religion."

    Myths actually play a very key role in our society. They are an ancient method of describing the human condition and explore our psyche. The problem is that many religious people fail to understand the point behind the myth and the establishment of most faiths uses this to exploit their followers.
  11. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:44 pm
    patchouly: how exactly do you expect to `purge` faith in God, or religion, from society? I doubt that someone following the tactics of Vlad the Impaler, Hitler, Ivan the Terrible, Attila The Hun, etc. will gain them any sympathy for their cause. But faith in God is going to be with us for a long time because it teaches us the deep lessons of love. Without those lessons, science will veer off, as we can see it doing already today, and be used for the wrong purposes. (eg. the latest entertainment gadgets are more important than helping the blind see, the deaf hear, the dumb to speak, the paralyzed walk).
  12. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 8:50 pm
    Gerry1of1: if you think that`s how everyone is, you might want to re-investigate.
  13. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 9:14 pm

  14. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 9:32 pm
    When you subscribe to a religion, you substitute nebulous group-think for focused, independent thought. Instead of learning to discern truth on your own, you`re told what to believe. This doesn`t help you grow, it puts the brakes on your development. Religion is the off-switch of the human mind.

    Religion will teach you to fear being different, to fear standing up for yourself, and to fear being an independent thinker. It will teach you that you`re unable to successfully manage life on your own terms. You are unworthy, you`re a sinner, you`re unclean, you belong to a lesser caste, you`re not enlightened. The solution? Give away your power, follow their rules & procedures, live in fear for the rest of your life, and hope it will all turn out okay in the end.
  15. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 9:34 pm
    TheGuySmiley

    Religion exists for two reasons:

    1. To answer unanswerable questions easily.

    2. To give a false sense of security and hope in the face of scary realities.

    The more that information is available the fewer questions will seem unanswerable.

    Atheism is spreading. MANY more people are raised in religious households and become atheists than the other way around. When those people have children they are likely to remain atheists.

    While faith and secularism is a pendulum that has swung throughout human history it will never swing back because of the internet. People now have access to knowledge and nothing kills faith like knowledge. Knowing things is always better than believing things.
  16. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 9:36 pm
    TheGuySmiley

    "You`ll find a lot of loving, sincere, and caring people in congregations"

    Absolutely. However those people would probably be JUST as loving, sincere, and caring without the bronze age superstitions and regurgitated creation myths.
  17. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:00 pm
    I see all the haters shown up to bad mouth religion on this post.

    Of course you all discount the fact that religion, particularly Christianity, founded the first hospitals, universities and charities. Christianity has fundamentally shaped the modern world for the better and if you can`t admire that, then you`re just a bitter atheist hater.
  18. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:09 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Christianity, founded the first hospitals, universities and charities"

    All 3 of those things existed in ancient Greece which pre-dates the birth of Christ. So by your rationale let`s all have respect for the mighty Zeus.
  19. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:40 pm
    "Christianity, founded the first hospitals, universities and charities"

    All 3 of those things existed in ancient Greece which pre-dates the birth of Christ. So by your rationale let`s all have respect for the mighty Zeus.


  20. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:41 pm
    Of course you all discount the fact that religion, particularly Christianity, founded the first hospitals, universities and charities.
    Now your just straight-out telling lies. And I abhor lies.
  21. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:45 pm
    I see that others have beaten me to it, in calling out Crakrjak`s Bullsh*t. And so to bed. I have to go to work tomorrow.
  22. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 10:48 pm
    CrakrJak, you really do have blinders on. Christianity has given us the Crusades, the Inquisition, the burning and torture of anyone labeled a witch, wars between any number of factions and sects, the continuous repression of science (which continues today as a battle against evolution), child abuse, - the list goes on. A force for good? Hardly.
    Use the word hater if it makes you happy, but most of us simply wish religists would use the same common sense they use to get by everyday and wake up.
  23. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2348 posts
    April 1, 2013 at 11:52 pm
    Until we know what becomes of human consciousness after biological death, there will be a need/opportunity for religion. Simply equating one thing to another doesn`t work as an argument.
  24. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 1:28 am
    I`m not nearly as anti-religion as I am anti-the way many religious people act. And I know that might sound like I`m splitting hairs or being an ass, but, religion, in its texts, is often okay and encourages helpfulness and community. The problem is that, in practice, it almost always turns out to be about powers and oppression. And that would be fine if practiced only among an on its adherents, but the problem is that they often want to wield that power and oppression over others who are non-religious. That`s where I get bent out of shape. Be anti-gay, racist, misogynistic all you want, but when you start voting on laws and taking actions that affect us all, that`s I`m going to push back. *That`s* my problem with religion.
  25. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 3:12 am
    HG: Your response isn`t too surprising since it was noted that on this topic you`re relying heavily on bias and prejudice. Fact is, love is the way of the future, and you can divide and say how your side is so great, but if there is no love in you or where you are it will ultimately fail. As for your assumption about people loving just as much with faith as without it, well it`s been noted through history that people have been even more loving after learning deep lessons of love through faith.

    whodat: weren`t you the one acting out of fear just a few posts back to something someone wrote that you thought was a threat to a rock in a lake of water that you hold so dear? they sure were afraid to speak up for themselves, huh? were they in fact full of fear trying to urge you to not tell on them? Might be time to re-think your stance that people with faith are fearful. It`s in fact to the contrary, people with faith are some of the boldest.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 4:04 am
    HG: "..those things existed in ancient Greece.."

    So you say, but show some evidence they still exist now. Oh that`s right you can`t, they were all destroyed by their warring neighbors.

    St Bartholomew`s Hospital in London was built in 1123 and still exists as a hospital.

    The University of Bologna founded in 1088 and is still operating was the first to use the term "universitas"

    The King`s School Canterbury, founded 597 and re-founded c.1541 and is still giving to those in need.

    Notice that these 3 oldest examples were all founded on Christian faith and all are over 850 years old or older and still going.

    The idealized Greece you look to was the Hellenistic period and lasted less than 200 years. There are universities, hospitals and charities in the USA that`ve lasted longer than that.

    You can`t even give names to any examples you cite that would be Greek.
  27. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 4:12 am
    SmagBoy: Roles have reversed now. It`s the atheists that feel themselves superior and look down upon the religious as second class.

    But an article in the American Journal of Psychiatry in 2004 shown that atheists have a higher suicide rate than theists.

    So who really is more sound of mind?
  28. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7558 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 5:31 am
    crakr, For your edification, I went to a school similar to kings Canterbury ( mine was founded 1553) and Yes- it was founded in religion- but not as you imagine, The protestant evangelical faith which is prevalent in the USA is very rare here. People do not evangelise, and those schools did NOT serve to promote religion but leaders, -boys to promote the virtue of being English. We broke with Rome not just as a matter of doctrine but as a matter of fealty. Then, as now, follow the money- religion has ALWAYS been a very profitable number- with saving of souls low on the list. I have no beef with religion- except of the extreme kind- which is a plague- but whilst I wish nothing but good towards moderates- if we must lose them to lose the extremes- well, we won`t miss much.
  29. Profile photo of pladius
    pladius Male 30-39
    27 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:03 am
    Crakr: "So you say, but show some evidence they still exist now. Oh that`s right you can`t, they were all destroyed by their warring neighbors."

    By that logic, since they are dead, your grandparents aren`t as good as mine, because mine are still alive. Whatever your grandparents did, doesn`t even matter, because they aren`t here anymore.
    Really? What kind of logic is that? How about the fact that the very symbol of modern medicine, the staff and snake was the symbol of Asclepius or the oath physicians still take is based off Hippocrate`s.
    No on second thought, you`re right, since they don`t exist anymore and all we have is the written word to substantiate the claims, we shouldn`t believe they ever existed. You know, like Christianity.
  30. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:28 am
    So you say, but show some evidence they still exist now

    So? What`s your point? The desire for knowledge predates Christianity. Nice try moving the goalposts bub.
  31. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36659 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:35 am

    GuySmiley, there are nice people everywhere, and mean ones. Religion doesn`t make a bit of difference. It just gives them a justification for how they really are. But there are some who use it to stir things up. like.... Westboro Baptist Church, Pat Robertson, all the ayatollahs.

  32. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:56 am
    Matthew 5:10-11. All are entitled to their opinions. Despite the hate and venom, the church doors will still be open for you, when you`re ready. Just curious though, less or no religion in favor of what, exactly? Do you honestly think all the horrible things both real and imagined that religion is accused of does not or would not exist outside of religion?
  33. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7558 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 8:13 am
    No papajohn, evil is done by man- there is no God. but it gives less for people to rally to, if people stop believing in an afterlife they might not be so quick to die for it.
    However- the venom is not directed at decent kind people- but those who use religion to fuel their own twisted agenda... ban abortion, prevent gay marriage, make women into possessions etc.. the belief in a deity makes it easier to push these ideas..
  34. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 8:34 am
    I don`t have to prove something that does not exist. You do. There is no god.You must disprove this.
  35. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 9:43 am
    Cajun: The desire for knowledge goes back to the Garden of Eden. So yeah, that predates Christianity, so what?
  36. Profile photo of kivimies
    kivimies Male 18-29
    17 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 9:46 am
    There are those who give no thought to this kind of matters, because they believe we don`t know the answer, at least yet.
    Slightly off-topic but summa summarum I don`t need to know whether there is a god or not, since nobody can prove it.
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 9:55 am
    pladius: Charities, universities and hospitals founded on Christian faith are the most long lived in all of history.

    Now ask yourself why.

    I already know the answer. James 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
  38. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:13 am
    Crakr

    "The desire for knowledge goes back to the Garden of Eden"

    Yes. And what does the story tell us? Adam and Eve consumed fruit from the tree of knowledge and for that God punished them to a life of hardship.

    It tells you right there that the pursuit of knowledge is punishable because the people that made the bible up as a method of control for uncivilized nomadic tribes knew that knowledge was the thing that could destroy their control.
  39. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:14 am
    Crakr and GuySmiley

    Christians have done wonderful things throughout history, no doubt. Christianity hasn`t done anything. Christians don`t help people because of christianity any more than brunettes help people because of dark hair.

    Churches get together and do good things like a lot of other social clubs do like chamber of commerces, rotary clubs, and shriners.

    I spent two hours last night doing volunteer art therapy with kids at a domestic violence shelter and I didn`t require a shared delusion or a threatening imaginary father figure to do it. Try being a good person just to be a good person it feels better than being a good person because someone told you to.
  40. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7558 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:15 am
    crakr- it has bugger ALL to do with Christianity and everything to do with power and money. Hundreds of small religious founded institutions died out- the ones that remain are there because of the money they were endowed with and what they do. as I said- I went to such a school- so do not even TRY to tell me what it does- I know. Yeah- Christianity has been about for 2k- not very long all told, and some of it`s institutions have been around for a while- the rich ones..
  41. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:19 am
    papajohns01

    "Do you honestly think all the horrible things both real and imagined that religion is accused of does not or would not exist outside of religion?"

    Some people are evil and they use religion as an excuse for their evilness.

    However it is hard to argue that alter boys would be being molested, westboro baptist church would be picketing funerals, or AIDS would be spreading as fast in Africa without religion.

    The crusades and inquisition were carried out by the church. Would those things have happened in a secular world? Maybe, kinda hard to imagine what the motivation would be.

    Suicide bombers blow themselves up because they are taught that allah wants them to and they will go to heaven with 72 virgins.



  42. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:42 am
    Crakr

    "atheists have a higher suicide rate than theists"

    1. Religion strictly forbids suicide. So someone suffering through immense daily pain with no hope of a cure has to suffer until they die if they believe the bible.

    2. Reality is scary. I think when I die my consciousness ceases to exist forever. That is scary. It is. You believe after you die you get to go live in eternal bliss with everyone you`ve ever known and loved. Do I prefer your version? Hell yes, but that doesn`t make it true.

    I would also rather believe Santa still brought me presents every year.
  43. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:19 am
    HG: The fruit of the forbidden tree was the knowledge of good and evil (aka sin), not `knowledge` itself. This is where a lot of atheists get it wrong, you`re not the first. Adam and Eve were learning about the world before they ate of the that tree.

    "Christians don`t help people because of Christianity"
    Really? Christianity molds us into who we are as people and it`s molded our whole society, even you.

    "Suicide bombers blow themselves up because they are taught that allah wants them to and they will go to heaven with 72 virgins."
    That`s to do with muslims and their screwed up beliefs, not Christianity. So don`t lump us up with them. Muslims were destroying sacred sites (and still do), they were also robbing and kidnapping pilgrims, that was the motivation for the crusades.

    "Reality is scary."
    Your `reality` is unconscionable and grim, ours hopeful and inspiring. The latter is better for the human psyche.
  44. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7558 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:30 am
    Crakr- Christians and Moslems are pretty similar- same God, different set of prophet types. Yes- the religious background of your culture moulds you. But not past any point where the actual religion matters... look at France, who had a nice revolution getting rid of the Aristos, Look at england- broke from Rome over various issues- then look at the USA- all Christian- are they similar- not at all. Then look at Islam--- and Judaism... all fruit of the same tree... Adam and Eve is a oral story about the beginning of either one or some of the tribes which developed mono theism... if yo u think the bible is literally true then your ability to read or even interpret the bloody bible is so flawed I worry.
  45. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:38 am
    "Christianity molds us into who we are as people and it`s molded our whole society, even you."

    Wrong, knowing right from wrong is human nature, it`s hard-wired into us. It has nothing to do with your religion whatsoever. You know that in order to ensure your survival you must also worry about the survival of the group as a whole. That`s where the whole "treat others as you would like to be treated" concept came along. That was waaaayyyyyy before man created religion, which was created to control the masses through fear and keep them in line.
  46. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:43 am
    Crakr

    "ours hopeful and inspiring"

    I don`t agree with that. You believe that there is an all knowing and all powerful deity that today will allow children to die of starvation, die of cancer, get raped, and get murdered.

    I don`t find that remotely hopeful. I find that really really depressing.
  47. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:45 am
    Crakr

    "That`s to do with muslims and their screwed up beliefs, not Christianity"

    I love that I listed 6 horrible things and you focus on the one that wasn`t connected to christianity and ignored the rest.
  48. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36659 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:47 am

    I know plenty of christians. {Face it, you pretty much trip over them} Of all of them, I only know one who actually lives it. One who has the kindness/love you hear tell about. The others just do it on Sunday morning and leave it there. Christianity doesn`t seem to guide their lives any more than it does mine.

    At least atheists live what they believe.
  49. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 11:47 am
    "That`s to do with muslims and their screwed up beliefs, not Christianity. So don`t lump us up with them. Muslims were destroying sacred sites (and still do), they were also robbing and kidnapping pilgrims, that was the motivation for the crusades."

    How would Jesus, the guy who said to love thine enemy and turn the other cheek, feel about a crusade that slaughtered innocent people as a response to that? I`m pretty sure he would be unhappy about it.

    How about the Inquisition or the Witch Trials? What is the excuse for those?
  50. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    Crakr, I don`t want to argue with you about it, but I didn`t say anything about feeling superior. What I was talking about was passing laws, wielding power over those in the minority. Last time I checked, the religious outnumber atheists about 4 to 1. So, if you`re feeling outnumbered or put upon, it`s not due to superior numbers. At all. My point, as I said, is not anti-religion, only anti-bigotry, anti-discrimination. I support freedom of religion, I support the free practice of religion, I`m just way against discrimination.
  51. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    HG: Yes, you`ve let me know of your reasons for blaming God for everything before, rape, murder, starvation, cancer, etc..

    Sorry, but we have freewill and mankind is the cause for the injustice in this world, not God.
    It is not God that allows this happen, but man. If we lived by his law there would be no injustice and suffering.

    FoolsPrussia: Knowing the path and walking the path are two different things, mankind hasn`t walked the path consistently. But you choose to libel all Christians with the acts of a few or those from hundreds of years in the past. Shall I then do the same? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other atheists have tortured and killed tens of millions. Wouldn`t that make atheism much much more evil?
  52. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 2:16 pm
    Smagboy: "..I support freedom of religion, I support the free practice of religion.."

    Unless any of it`s tenets or traditions conflict with your worldview, then you wish to silence or denigrate them. That`s not supporting freedom of religion, that`s being intolerant of it.
  53. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 2:19 pm
    Crakr

    "your reasons for blaming God for everything before"

    I don`t blame god any more than I blame Satan, Thor, or The Easter Bunny. I just don`t understand how you can accept that contradiction. "He loves us" but at the same time he could end all human suffering but CHOOSES not to.

    Those statements cannot coexist.

    You a parent? I am. I would NEVER allow anything to happen to my children if I could stop it. Not even a stubbed toe let alone rape and murder. THAT is actual love.

    "Sorry, but we have freewill"

    What does freewill have to do with cancer? God had to intentionally CREATE cancer right?

    The Egyptians had freewill but god intervenes. God intervenes repeatedly through the bible. So why can`t he intervene now?
  54. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 2:23 pm
    Crakr

    "Unless any of it`s tenets or traditions conflict with your worldview, then you wish to silence or denigrate them. That`s not supporting freedom of religion, that`s being intolerant of it."

    No dummy. I hate religion. However I am perfectly fine with people practicing religion. Several of my closest friends and family members are religious. I freely support practice of religion.

    I can think you are ignorant and foolish but I would never prevent you from being ignorant and foolish.

    My only problem is when religious people try to connect their religion with my government or the laws that govern me.

    Look at it this way. The idea of a guy f.ucking another guy in the ass makes me a little nauseous. However, I have several gay friends and would always support a gay person`s rights.
  55. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    Muslims were destroying sacred sites (and still do), they were also robbing and kidnapping pilgrims, that was the motivation for the crusades.

    Way to white wash history there bub. The catholic church sent the knights because they were pillaging towns in Europe. Then when they got to Palestine they were sacking towns raping women and children and all other monstrosities.

    The desire for knowledge goes back to the Garden of Eden


    "If you tend to cite fairy tales as fact..."
    "...you just might be a redneck."
  56. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    "But you choose to libel all Christians with the acts of a few or those from hundreds of years in the past. Shall I then do the same? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other atheists have tortured and killed tens of millions. Wouldn`t that make atheism much much more evil?"

    I never labeled all Christians that way, and I`m not an atheist.
  57. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 6:36 pm
    Crakr

    "Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other atheists have tortured and killed tens of millions."

    So you are saying people with dark hair are evil? Because their dark hair is just as much to blame for their actions as their atheism.

    A person`s actions are influenced by things they believe in, not by things they don`t believe in.

    Do you feel like your actions are influenced by the fact that you don`t believe in Vishnu?
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 6:42 pm
    HG: "I would NEVER allow anything to happen to my children if I could stop it."

    Ah, but children grow up and have freewill of their own. If you smother them they never earn trust and learn responsibility.

    "God intervenes repeatedly through the bible. So why can`t he intervene now?"

    God gave us the biggest intervention ever, the blood of his one and only son, the sacrifice to pay the debt for our sins. Apparently that isn`t enough for you though.

    "My only problem is when religious people try to connect their religion with my government or the laws that govern me."

    Our country was founded on God given rights that the government is forbidden to take away. You can`t extract religion from our constitution, the protection of it, and our God given rights, is enshrined within. You may not like it, but that`s the fact of the matter.
  59. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 6:55 pm
    HG: You know damn well that Marxism and Atheism go hand in hand. You`re just being disingenuous with the dark hair comment.

    Even if you say you don`t believe, you`ve still made a theological choice. And since you`ve made that choice, I still find your nickname choice not only immature, but baiting and guileful.
  60. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:19 pm
    "You know damn well that Marxism and Atheism go hand in hand."

    This is like saying all Christians are Republicans or all Muslims are terrorists.
  61. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 7:37 pm
    You can`t extract religion from our constitution, the protection of it, and our God given rights, is enshrined within.

    Actually, you can. Freedom of religion can be protected with those of association, assembly, and speech together.

    Our country was founded on God given rights that the government is forbidden to take away.

    Invoking God when it comes to natural rights is completely superfluous qualifier. The concept is universal across all cultures.

    You know damn well that Marxism and Atheism go hand in hand.

    So you say, but anyone can use their faith (or lack thereof) to justify any political leaning. Take for instance the former Muslim socialist country of Libya, or the Christian socialist party of Germany.
  62. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 8:21 pm
    Crakr

    "Ah, but children grow up and have freewill of their own. If you smother them they never earn trust and learn responsibility."

    So what you are saying is that God knows someone is about to kidnap, anally rape, and immolate a child and can stop them but chooses not to so the child can learn responsibility?

    "the sacrifice to pay the debt for our sins."

    Debt to whom? God?

    "You can`t extract religion from our constitution, the protection of it, and our God given rights, is enshrined within."

    Do you know how many times the constitution mentions god? Never. Not once. So please stop spreading things that are completely untrue. Our rights (free speech, arms, etc) were given to us by people.
  63. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 8:27 pm
    Crakr

    "You know damn well that Marxism and Atheism go hand in hand."

    Atheism is a part of communism. So are lots of other things. A lack of belief in the Christian god cannot control one`s actions anymore than your lack of belief in hindu gods controls yours.

    "I still find your nickname choice not only immature, but baiting"

    You know what I find immature? A grown man who believes in the bible.
  64. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 8:44 pm
    HG: "Our rights (free speech, arms, etc) were given to us by people."

    What part of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.." do you not understand?

    Your nickname is as immature and baiting as if some white racist chose the nickname MLK Jr.and started spouting KKK propaganda here.

    If you can`t see how offensive and deliberately guileful it is, then your immaturity is self-evident.

    You have built up this wall of blaming God for every wrongdoing of mankind. It`s like watching these idiots on `Parking Wars` blaming the meter maids for the ticket they got. It`s pathetic.
  65. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 9:55 pm
    Crakr

    "What part of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.." do you not understand?"

    Do you seriously not know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?

    The rights mentioned in the declaration of independence are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you want to think those were given to you by god, ok.

    I said (free speech, arms, etc), the rights "enshrined within" our CONSTITUTION (as you said). It is a totally separate document that doesn`t mention god ONCE.

    "started spouting KKK propaganda here"

    I don`t hate christians. I have nothing against christians. I actually like people like you. Your complacency and lack of drive with your life because this is just a test before you go to heaven makes it easier for me to have the life I want.
  66. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 9:57 pm
    Crakr

    "You have built up this wall of blaming God for every wrongdoing of mankind."

    1. I don`t blame god for anything. I don`t think he exists. That is like saying I blame santa for not getting a present.

    2. How are earthquakes, tsunamis, AIDS, cancer, SIDS, etc the wrongdoing of man? You understand that you believe god INTENTIONALLY created those things right? You ever bother to ask why?
  67. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:24 pm
    You know Crakr`s getting desperate when he`s trying to attack your character.
  68. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 2, 2013 at 10:33 pm
    Cajun247

    "You know Crakr`s getting desperate when he`s trying to attack your character."

    I think people of faith always have desperate moments. No matter how gullible or ignorant you are there is always a part of you that has to go "this makes no f.ucking sense".

    When you bring up rational intelligent common sense points that contradict the insanity they have spent their whole lives trying to believe it shakes their delusion a bit.
  69. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 2:52 am
    Resolved, that the inhabitants of this Province are unalienably entitled to those essential rights in common with all men: and that no law of society can, consistent with the law of God and nature, divest them of those rights. Resolutions of House of Representatives, Mass., 1765

    The evidence in the constitution of our unalienable rights is the amendments are written as things the government MAY NOT do.

    For instance the 1st amendment starts out "Congress shall make no law..."

    It doesn`t say, "The government grants the freedom of..."

    Government doesn`t grant us rights, we are born with them, they are unalienable, even if the government oversteps it`s bounds and tries to take them away.
  70. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 2:54 am
    HG: "..it shakes their delusion a bit."

    Actually no, it reinforces my belief that atheists will go to any absurd argumentative lengths to blame God, even when they profess his non-existence.

    Just some quotes from the founders about our God given rights.

    "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson ("Notes on the State of Virginia," 1782)
  71. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 3:03 am
    Cajun: "You know Crakr`s getting desperate when he`s trying to attack your character."

    Just because HG IS a character, it doesn`t mean he HAS character. In fact he`s demonstrably shown his lack of it by his hatred, lies and distortions.

    If he had even an ounce of the tolerance he professes to have toward religion, he would`ve chosen a nickname that wasn`t overtly antagonistic.
  72. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 7:04 am
    Just because HG IS a character, it doesn`t mean he HAS character. In fact he`s demonstrably shown his lack of it by his hatred, lies and distortions.

    WTF ever dude, like you`ve never distorted the facts. I`ve witnessed your spite for liberals (albeit I might sympathize when it comes madest and chalket). But I`ve seen you demagogue Muslims, pot smokers, homosexuals, atheists irreligious alike with the WORST distortion of facts. I`ve had very reasonable disagreements with HolyGod and other liberals here. As far as I`m concerned we`ve never painted either one`s character so black like you just did.
  73. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 7:31 am
    Resolved, that the inhabitants of this Province are unalienably entitled to those essential rights in common with all men: and that no law of society can, consistent with the law of God and nature, divest them of those rights.

    Religious people supporting freedom? There used to be a huge pagan nation known as the Roman republic. Before you mention slavery remember that wasn`t largely kaput until the late 19th century.

    But the very notion has certainly evolved in other religious traditions and cultures.

    Freedom of religion arised out of practicality in India and the Far East.
    The Ottoman empire allowed separate courts to resolve legal matters within different religious traditions
  74. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 7:46 am
    Heck India, Hinduism is such a DIVERSE set of beliefs that traditionally they have a very certain respect for freedom of religion.
  75. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 9:25 am
    Crakr

    "atheists will go to any absurd argumentative lengths to blame God, even when they profess his non-existence."

    I don`t blame God for things any more than you blame Thor.

    I have just repeatedly said why my rational mind can not accept the idea of an omnipotent loving god.

    You believe these "truths":

    1. God is all knowing
    2. God is all powerful
    3. Horrible things happen to innocent people
    4. God loves us as his children

    Now in my mind those things can not all be true and since I do not believe all those things can co-exist I do not believe in god.

    You can`t have a rational discussion on the matter because by definition faith is the lack of rationale.

    You have been brainwashed since the day you were born. Had you been born in India you`d be on here spouting off about Hindu gods. Had you been born in the middle east you`d be telling me how wonderful Mohammed is.
  76. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 9:32 am
    Crakr

    "Government doesn`t grant us rights, we are born with them, they are unalienable"

    I`m with you on life and liberty and other abstract rights but are you actually telling me that "god" gives us the right to bare arms and the right to a jury trial over matters of $20?

    Funny.

    I`ve read the bible. I don`t remember those rights or laws. I do seem to remember rules about not saying god`s name in a not nice way, not wearing cloth of mixed fabric, and how much you are allowed to beat your slave.
  77. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 9:42 am
    HG: "You have been brainwashed since the day you were born."
    Not true at all. My parents didn`t go to church regularly after I was born and i was never made to go unless it was for a wedding or funeral.

    I went initially because my neighborhood friends went to Sunday school and that seemed cool to me. But even then it didn`t stick, I found watching wrestling and sports on TV much more entertaining. Church was boring. It wasn`t until my early teens that I wanted to actually get answers to those nagging universal questions of life and thankfully found a congregation and preacher that made Church fun and not stuffy.

    "Had you been born in India you`d be on here spouting off about Hindu gods."
    I think not, after seeing how boring, and sometimes crazy, their rituals are I`d have never got into it. I`d seen a lot of those National Geographic type shows on TV and read quite a lot of their magazines.
  78. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 9:50 am
    CrakrJak

    "If he had even an ounce of the tolerance he professes to have toward religion, he would`ve chosen a nickname that wasn`t overtly antagonistic."

    Hey. It is in reference to lord Zeus. I have quotes from people about how they believe in Zeus and old books about Zeus, so I`m sure you`d agree it is pretty obvious Zeus exists. In fact it offends me that you are a non-believer.

    I really like Cracker Jacks and you aren`t a cracker Jack so I find your name offensive and antagonistic.
  79. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 9:59 am
    "It is in reference to lord Zeus"

    Bullsh|t, otherwise you would`ve chosen LordZeus or HolyZeus. You`ve been disingenuous about it from the start and your "..it aoffends me that you are a non-believer." comment just cements the fact that you`re trolling.

    Please go back under your bridge now.
  80. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 10:31 am
    CrakrJak

    "Bullsh|t, otherwise you would`ve chosen LordZeus or HolyZeus. You`ve been disingenuous about it from the start and your "..it aoffends me that you are a non-believer." comment just cements the fact that you`re trolling."

    You think Jehovah has a trademark on the word "god"? Hate to break it to you pal but billions of people have referred to thousands of deities as "god" including zeus.

    I have just as much proof that zeus exists as you have that your god exists so if me saying I believe in zeus is trolling then you saying you believe in your god is trolling.

    Let`s stop arguing and all believe in the Shinto tree spirits of our ancestors. Deal?
  81. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 10:42 am
    "I think not, after seeing how boring, and sometimes crazy, their rituals are I`d have never got into it. I`d seen a lot of those National Geographic type shows on TV and read quite a lot of their magazines."

    You realize, of course, that they wouldn`t appear that way to you as you`d be a part of that culture.

    Daisetz Suzuki, a famous Zen master, once said this of Christianity:

    "Let`s see. Nature against Man, Man against Nature; God against Man, Man against God; God against Nature, Nature against God; very funny religion!"

    So, from an Eastern perspective, Christianity is very difficult to understand.
  82. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    April 3, 2013 at 10:52 am
    Crakr

    "after seeing how boring, and sometimes crazy, their rituals are"

    Which christian rituals do you think aren`t boring? The sitting listening to a guy read out of a book? Listening to people sing off key? Eating crackers?
  83. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    April 4, 2013 at 8:13 pm
    Maybe religion isn`t flawed, but man`s interpretation of it is.
  84. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    April 4, 2013 at 8:18 pm
    The same guy who goes to great lengths to let you know he doesn`t believe and this is why you shouldn`t believe, is just as crazy as the zealot, overly-religious type. We`re all just bumping around in the dark for the short time we have here, uncertain of what happens next. So believe what you want to believe, and leave each other alone on the subject.

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