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Date: 03/05/13 02:00 PM

122 Responses to Gun Homicide Rate By Country [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 1:46 pm
    Link: Gun Homicide Rate By Country - Per country, per capita.
  2. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    Yay! We`re on par with Uruguay, the Dominican, and Albania! Woo-hoo!
  3. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 2:55 pm
    I`m sort of surprised that Gerry posted this, considering how it doesn`t seem to reinforce the pro-gun argument much.
  4. Profile photo of skytz1337
    skytz1337 Male 18-29
    687 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 2:58 pm
    haha you can see when Europe starts
  5. Profile photo of lemonstand
    lemonstand Female 18-29
    169 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:09 pm
    is it bad that i read "gay homicide rate" first?
  6. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:10 pm
    For Italy and the countries listed after, I`d be interested to know what the knife violence rate are, compared to knife and gun violence in all the other countries- except Switzerland of course, where drunk chicks wearing bikini`s made of 1,000 SF notes can stumble the streets and be safe. Or is that sweeping generalization about the Swiss racist?
  7. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6236 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    What? USA is not #1? I mean, we`re the only country with the NRA, and liberals keep telling us that the NRA is the cause of all the murders.
  8. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    I`m not quite sure what point this graphic is supposed to be making, but a quick check of UNODC stats shows it is not overly accurate.

    Examples:

    Columbia shows nothing near 49.52; the highest was 40.1 (2004) and the "most recent year" was 27.1 per 100,000 (in 2010).

    Honduras was 26.7 in 2005 and jumped every year hitting 68.4 in 2010, but was never 30.57 in any given year.

    Dominican Republic isn`t even close. The last 3 recorded years (2008-2010) were 18.6, 16.9, and 16.3 (a far cry from the "4.00" in the graphic).

    Incidentally, the U.S. figure is pretty close (though dated), 3.9 in 2006, 3.2 in 2010.
  9. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:35 pm
    It`s highly misleading because it only looks at gun murders, not total murders. As though the tool to commit a murder really changes the outcome.

    I know for a fact that the UK`s murder rate is about 1.2 per 100k. That means it goes up tenfold from this statistic. The US`s would not go up tenfold. This is a common trick to make the gap look even more drastic.


    The fact is that if you take away gang related murders in the United States, our murder rate is below 2 per 100k. This is evident in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Minnesota`s murder rates being about 1/100k, less than Europe even with the presence of guns. We have a gang problem.
  10. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4916 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:38 pm
    MeGrendel your country lead the first world countries in this list.
  11. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    "The fact is that if you take away gang related murders in the United States, our murder rate is below 2 per 100k. This is evident in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Minnesota`s murder rates being about 1/100k, less than Europe even with the presence of guns. We have a gang problem."

    I agree that gang violence is a major contributor to the murder rate, but you don`t think that part of the problem is that gangs have such easy access to guns? Guns are ubiquitous in inner cities, and it`s a major problem.
  12. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    FoolsPrussia "I`m sort of surprised that Gerry posted this, considering how it doesn`t seem to reinforce the pro-gun argument much." I`m interested in anything internestind. And it does dispell the myth that the USA is the most violent, murderous country on the planet. Just the most violent `modern` nation.

    Here`s a titbit for you, 64,999,987 firearms killed no one yesterday. Statistically, very VERY few are involved in deaths.
  13. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 3:58 pm
    @Gerry: I don`t think anyone has ever asserted that the USA is the most violent country. What we do claim is exactly what is shown on this chart; the USA has an abnormally high murder rate among first world nations.
  14. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    FoolsPrussia

    "What we do claim is exactly what is shown on this chart; the USA has an abnormally high murder rate among first world nations. "

    The chart shows nothing of the sort. It does not show total murder rate.

    When you have to support your contention with lies, you are acknowledging that you have lost the argument.
  15. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:03 pm
    Gerry

    The US is not close to the most violent civilised nation; this only shows one, numerically minor aspect of violence. Here in the UK we have a far higher rate of violent crime.
  16. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:11 pm
    "It`s highly misleading because it only looks at gun murders, not total murders. As though the tool to commit a murder really changes the outcome."


    Check this table then


    UK has 1.2, USA has 4.8, Canada has 1.6
    This is intentional homicide, not just any homicide, so accidents don`t count.
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:12 pm
    Where`s @HolyGod to complain how the "little countries" have skewed the statistics? You know, tiny places like Brasil and South Africa! Mexico, the Phillipines...



    And furthermore:



    Those "gun deaths" INCLUDE suicide, fyi...
  18. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6236 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:12 pm
    FoolsPrussia-"don`t think that part of the problem is that gangs have such easy access to guns?"

    And you seriously think that outlawing gun will make them harder for criminals to get?
  19. Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:13 pm
    that gangs have such easy access to guns?

    liberals, I swear

    these gangs aren`t all running around with CCL, the guns they have are illegal. guess what happens when you ban guns?

    protip: banning guns takes them away from responsible people, the criminals will still gladly break the law
  20. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:16 pm
    "The US is not close to the most violent civilised nation; this only shows one, numerically minor aspect of violence. Here in the UK we have a far higher rate of violent crime."

    Yes, you do, but violent crime is not the same as homicides. If you punch someone in the face it`s considered a violent crime, if you punch 5 people in the face it`s considered 5 violent crimes.
    The rate of violent crime doesn`t take into account the nature of the crime, so it`s rather useless when comparing the violence between countries. On the other hand, the murder rate perfectly illustrates this, and the USA`s murder rate is 4 times higher than the UK`s.
  21. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:19 pm
    @5Cats
    Pie charts with no sources are irrelevant. I can make the exact same pie charts saying the opposite.

    @darkmagic14n
    And do you know how they get illegal guns? Because someone buys them legally, erase the serial number and then sell them.
  22. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    "According to: National Vital Statistics Reports Volume 60, Number 3 December 29, 2011 Deaths: Final Data for 2009 (Table 18) in 2009, a total of 177,154 deaths were classified as injury related Four major mechanisms of injury in 2009— poisoning, motor-vehicle traffic, firearm, and fall— accounted for 75.1 percent of all injury deaths."

    That second chart relates to deaths other than disease, eh? Guns (including suicide) comes 3rd, slightly ahead of accidental falls...

    Source: A Blog

    And yes, it is a fact that when one takes "gangs" out of the equation, USA`s gun murder rate is almost as low as Europe`s. That`s a "race" issue, so it`s easier to take guns away from whites than it is to deal with coloured gangs... right liberals?
  23. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:25 pm
    @5Cats
    Pie charts with no sources are irrelevant. I can make the exact same pie charts saying the opposite.
    WEE WEE WEE! Little piggie! @Canoas, I`m getting to it!
    ;-) I say "little piggie" because of your avatar, not trying to offend you. Ok?

  24. Profile photo of Wattstone
    Wattstone Male 18-29
    167 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:42 pm
    In Brazil, legally owning a a firearm is difficult and costly. Having the right to carry it out on the street is almost impossible for a common, law-abiding citizen. And yet we`re on top of the chart, way ahead of countries like the US where gun ownership is common and more accessible. Makes you wonder: whoever said "guns don`t kill people, people kill people" was damn right.

    Friggin hate it here.

  25. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:43 pm
    @5cats
    Car accidents, falls and poisonings are mostly accidental, gun related deaths are not.

    If 1 out of every 5 gun use is a violent crime then that`s not good at all.

    Also, are you claiming that gangs are responsible for 3/4 of USA`s gun homicide? I highly doubt that, please provide the source of that information.

    According to your "ways criminals obtain guns" then 97.1% of all guns were originally legal, which means that the gun control is terrible.
  26. Profile photo of Corydoras87
    Corydoras87 Male 18-29
    642 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    We all know that the USA have more police than colombia.. and in colombia the gangsters "replace" the police. When people have a problem they go to their gangster friends, not to the police.. so what would be a simple arrest in the USA turns into a homicide in colombia

    Just wondering
  27. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm
    @Wattstone
    But you forget that in Brasil it`s easier to get an illegal firearm than a legal one.
  28. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:52 pm
    Canoas

    If you rape someone that is violence too. The rate of rape here is about 3 times the US rate.
  29. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 4:53 pm
    then 97.1% of all guns were originally legal

    @Canoas: Wait, what?
    32% THEFT = "legal"?
    7.6% Fence OR Black Market = both illegal

    The POINT of that chart is that ONLY 16% of criminal`s guns come from a source that WOULD BE affected by current "gun laws". OK? Unless sweeping new laws are enacted? And many Americans lose their rights? The rest of those sources would not be changed by "more laws".

    Ok? It seems so straightforward to me. How can you miss that?
  30. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:01 pm
    If 1 out of every 5 gun use is a violent crime then that`s not good at all.
    Noooo, there`s 200 million+ guns in the USA, and about 600,000 gun crimes.
    Also: Just over 2,000,000 times a gun was used in self defence.

    So it`s a TINY % of guns used in crime. (In the USA) Guns are 3X (or more) more likely to be used legally in self defence than to be used in a crime.

    Also, are you claiming that gangs are responsible for 3/4 of USA`s gun homicide?
    Um, YUP! Who do YOU THINK is killing all those people in Chicago? Ice Cream Truck salesmen? It`s GANGS! With ILLEGAL GUNS!
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:06 pm
    @Wattstone
    But you forget that in Brasil it`s easier to get an illegal firearm than a legal one.
    Not trying to speak for @Wattstone, but I think it IS HIS POINT! He didn`t "forget" anything!
    His point is: criminals can STILL get guns! Despite all those laws. It`s honest citizens who are unarmed. Same for Canada (where I live!) it`s the same thing.

    Criminals HAVE GUNS and can always get more! But honest, lawful citizens have a hard time getting one. Unless you`re RICH! Then it`s super easy!

    SO: In Canada (and Brasil) the criminals, the cops and the RICH PEOPLE all have guns... NOT nice!
  32. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:08 pm
    Gee I`m grumpy tonight!

    Sorry if it seems like I`m "unloading" on you @Canoas! This is really directed at the "AIB Gun-Grabbing Brigade" eh? They know who they are...
  33. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:23 pm
    "unloading"
    Gun homicide thread...

    I swear to Heaven that was an accidental pun!
  34. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3275 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Without reading, I`m going to predict that there will be several people who say "there are third world countries on this list, and therefore invalid".
  35. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    "If 1 out of every 5 gun use is a violent crime then that`s not good at all."
    Conversely, 4 our of 5 is NOT used in a crime.
    How GREAT is that!!!!!
  36. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 6:08 pm
    "these gangs aren`t all running around with CCL, the guns they have are illegal. guess what happens when you ban guns?"

    Would you guys please stop claiming that we`re trying to ban guns? That`s not happening. The assault rifle ban would only ban one type of gun, and it`s almost certain to die in congress.
  37. Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:13 pm
    @Canoas:

    Europe in charge of knowing about guns
    lel
  38. Profile photo of Profworm
    Profworm Male 30-39
    403 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm
    Took me a while, but I found the source. It`s a spreadsheet, so you`ll have to download it to check it out.

    Link

    The link adds valuable context. Not just the `per 100,000`, but also the actual number of deaths and the percentage of total deaths from murder by gun.

    Statistics should never be used for bias. They are for understanding, not arguing.
  39. Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm
    @5cats "Who do YOU THINK is killing all those people in Chicago? Ice Cream Truck salesmen?"

    you jest, but:



    Ice Cream Truck drivers aren`t always on the up and up
  40. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    You do not shoot a gun to kill.
    You shoot it to stay alive.
  41. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:32 pm
    In case you all were wonder, here is the latest development in 3 D printing. They printed the receiver for an AR-15 that could withstand 1,000 rounds. The receiver is the only part this is regulated, so now you can basically build one on the down low.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tAW72Y_XPF4


    But "Assault style" weapons aren`t the problem anyways. They represent something like 2% of gun crimes. And AR-15 ammo, .223, is actually weaker than 9mm, unless you`re sharpshooting. An AR-15 is essentially a low calibre, high capacity hunting rifle. It is not automatic. So the capacity is the issue. Magazines can already be 3 D printed, rendering any regulation of magazines moot.
  42. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:33 pm
    An ordinary "hunting rifle" is more lethal than an AR-15. Bigger bullets, more powerful shot. If you`re going to ban AR-15`s, you have to ban these "hunting rifles". But really, "Assault style" weapons are a red herring. The problem is handguns. Every statistic supports this. They`re just not as scary. They are easier to hide, easier to kill with, easier to reload, easier to obtain and operate.
  43. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    You do not shoot a gun to kill.
    You shoot it to stay alive.

    There`s an assumption that all gun deaths are tragedies. How many are well deserved deaths? By that I mean how many rapists or muggers or home invasionists? were killed by their wouldl-be victims because those people were allowed to own a defensive weapon?

    Just asking a question.

  44. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    Nearly 4 in 100,000 is not good, but not nearly enough for me to consider giving up my rights. Especially when a very very high percentage of those homicides are gang, drug, or some other illegal activity related activity.

    In my 30-39 years on this planet I`ve only seen one person shot. It was drug related. Dude pulled a gun out and was threatening a crack head, who pulled out his gun and opened fire. Shot dude in the arm. Instant justice.
  45. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 9:46 pm
    Ice Cream Truck drivers aren`t always on the up and up
    @darkmagic14n: lolz! I do remember that news! It caused a couple of "shoot-outs" didn`t it?

    However, nothing like the "gang bangin" in Chicago, DC and LA... Toronto...

    The problem is handguns.
    @Andrew155: And also the #1 all-time BEST method of self defence is... handguns too.
    I hear what you`re saying: The "gun grabbers" are going after the "scaryguns" which are rarely used for crime. WHY don`t they address the REAL issues?
    Answer: Because they cannot. They have NO stats, NO solution and NO morality to back them.

    So they play the "fear card" because the "race card" only supports the 2nd Amendment side.

    Heaven forbid that liberals would EVER admit that "blacks" have a problem...
  46. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 9:52 pm
    @Gerry1: As I mentioned (and it`s sort-of linked to) the ratio of "gun crime" vs "self defence" is:
    600,000 USA crimes involving guns
    2,000,000+ "self defence" involving guns.

    75% of "self defence" incidents do NOT involve a single shot being fired.

    iirc: the actual number of "justified self defence killings" is about 260 per year.

    FBI Home THIS is a treasure-trove of real information. It takes a bit of digging though... and half a brain ;-) which I know you`ve got @Gerry1!
    Go "get `um" tiger!
  47. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Know guns, know peace, know safety.
    No guns, no peace, no safety.
  48. Profile photo of Nageki
    Nageki Male 30-39
    110 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 11:43 pm
    I find it interesting that the US is only behind like all the countries that have all the drug gangs in them... But that`s my perspective on this and will probably be ignored by most of the IAB regulars...
  49. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 11:45 pm
    Hmm, not bad by third world catholic countries.

    Hey, what happened to the UK? That`s right, they all but banned guns. You should give it a go.
  50. Profile photo of SnoopyBG
    SnoopyBG Male 18-29
    653 posts
    March 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm
    Hahaha, as soon as you move into Europe things calm down. (albania excluded...)
  51. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4348 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:53 am
    oh, we no rate. could have something to do with complete lack of guns. Dont worry, I`m sure we bash heaps of eachother to death though :)
  52. Profile photo of Profworm
    Profworm Male 30-39
    403 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:56 am
    I missed this before, at the bottom of the UNODC spreadsheet from which the OP graph is distilled.

    "* For the United States of America number of homicides by firearm is adjusted for limited coverage of homicide by firearm data by multiplying the total number of intentional homicides by the ratio of homicides by firearm."

    The ratio is listed as 67.5%, but how do they know the ratio of deaths by guns if they don`t know how many people we`re killed by guns? I mean, that`s typically how you get the ratio. So... Some number less than the total number of murders, but greater than zero.

    Asterisks aren`t supposed to make things more confusing.
  53. Profile photo of Profworm
    Profworm Male 30-39
    403 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 1:19 am
    - "Hahaha, as soon as you move into Europe things calm down. (albania excluded...)"

    United Kingdom (England and Wales) : 2009 (Most recent recorded year) 722 murders, 41 by gun. That`s about 6%.

    Australia : Also 2009, 263 murders, 30 by gun. A little more than 1 in 10.

    Not making any point, but I have the files open and you guys commented, so there you go. :)
  54. Profile photo of malikymoo
    malikymoo Female 18-29
    2028 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 2:25 am
    so poor countries. America is still the highest for the western world
  55. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 3:20 am
    @randomxnp

    "Here in the UK we have a far higher rate of violent crime."

    Violent crime is very hard to measure between countries, because different countries class different things as a violent crime.

    Eg: if I cut off a lock of your hair without your permission, that could be classed as a violent crime because it is an assault on the person. Some countries may class it as such, others may not.

    Murder, however, is far easier to measure. There is much less ambiguity, and it makes for a much better comparison between countries.

    And personally, I`d rather have a lower murder rate and a higher rate of violent crime than the other way around. I can recover from a punch to the face. Being dead is pretty terminal.
  56. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 3:22 am
    @MeGrendel

    "And you seriously think that outlawing gun will make them harder for criminals to get?"

    In a word, yes. Just as it`s easier for a criminal to get hold of a pair of socks or a pack of cigarettes than a machine gun.
  57. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 3:31 am
    @5Cats

    "And also the #1 all-time BEST method of self defence is... handguns too."

    I would have thought the number one best method of self defence is having a relaxed, crime-free society which isn`t full of people who might attack you.

    Look at Scandinavia to see that it is possible.

    So pro-gun people, why don`t you work to acheive that? If nobody is killing people with guns, then you won`t have to defend your guns against people who say they are dangerous.

    Stop defending the usefulness of the bucket for catching leaks and get up and fix the damn roof instead!
  58. Profile photo of andybme
    andybme Male 50-59
    296 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 4:37 am
    What, no Russia?
  59. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 5:41 am
    Ya that gun bans working so well for Mexico! European thinking they know what`s best for the rest of the world yep never seen that in history before....
  60. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 6:08 am
    Well thank goodness Columbia`s doing something about overpopulation.
  61. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 6:27 am
    SO: In Canada (and Brasil) the criminals, the cops and the RICH PEOPLE all have guns... NOT nice!
    This is ridiculous. I know of a few friends and family that have guns for hunting, and they are not "rich" or cops or criminals. I wonder @5cats, how much gun crime was there in your city last year?
  62. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    579 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 6:36 am
    @Musuko42 Even in the most peaceful society in the world, people still commit crime using guns. Unless you can find a way to remove all guns and all weapons of any kind from the entire world and never have them again, gun control simply will not work. It`s a liberal pipe dream as is many a liberal policy that, while almost always well intentioned, almost always makes this worse.
  63. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 7:27 am
    @papajon0s1

    "Even in the most peaceful society in the world, people still commit crime using guns. Unless you can find a way to remove all guns and all weapons of any kind from the entire world and never have them again, gun control simply will not work."

    Correct. You can never 100% get rid of a crime...but why do you think then that it`s pointless to minimise it as much as possible?

    You are arguing for having no laws or policing at all, because we can never make things perfect. Why are you arguing that? You can`t possibly believe that`s correct.
  64. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 7:30 am
    You are arguing for having no laws or policing at all, because we can never make things perfect. Why are you arguing that? You can`t possibly believe that`s correct.

    Laws that punish those who try to abide to them help nothing.
  65. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 7:58 am
    @Musuko

    You are arguing for having no laws or policing at all, because we can never make things perfect.
    I don`t think he was arguing this at all. Rather, I believe that he suggested that, specifically in the case of gun control, the proposed legislation would at best be a non-factor and at worst - counterproductive.

    Perhaps a different perspective would be to consider that we all agree that we cannot eliminate the presence of firearms entirely. Now, consider whether or not you believe it is "fair" to enable an individual to protect himself (or herself) from aggression with equal force.

    For example, in your "scenario", if I were being harassed by a group of six gangsters, what is my recourse? In your "scenario" I can either run and hope to escape, or suffer a beating/torture/possible death. Is that fair when I could have presented a firearm to potentially save my life?
  66. Profile photo of furryblob
    furryblob Male 18-29
    574 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 8:07 am
    America is shocking high on that list.
  67. Profile photo of pancake414
    pancake414 Male 30-39
    19 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 8:59 am
    I wish republicans could stick with the same logic on welfare. They want to get rid of it because some people abuse it, but the same reasoning doesn`t work for them on gun control.
  68. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:01 am
    @HumanAction

    "I don`t think he was arguing this at all. Rather, I believe that he suggested that, specifically in the case of gun control, the proposed legislation would at best be a non-factor and at worst - counterproductive."

    But what is that opinion based on? That graph seems to show that the "disarmed" nations tend to cluster down at the bottom. The tactic may not work for America, being a different nation with a different society, but you can`t claim it doesn`t work for other nations. So there is potential that it could work for America.

    It couldn`t do much worse than America`s current approach!
  69. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:07 am
    But what is that opinion based on? That graph seems to show that the "disarmed" nations tend to cluster down at the bottom.

    Mexico.....
  70. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:11 am
    @HumanAction

    "For example, in your "scenario", if I were being harassed by a group of six gangsters, what is my recourse?"

    My answer to that is the same as I give to the "what if" scenario of being attacked by a tiger. My chances of being attacked by a tiger in England are about on par with my chances of being attacked by gangsters.

    What pro-gun advocates seem to be forgetting is that the very need to have to carry a gun for self-defence for your daily lives is a shameful admission that your society is broken and beset by threats that should not be occurring on a regular basis in a civilisation nation.

    You`re a rich country. Why can`t you solve your crime problem so your people don`t NEED to be armed for self-defence?
  71. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:13 am
    Still cannot understand why every amendment is "a living and breathing document" that needs to be interpreted by the Supreme Court, but the 2nd amendment is cut and dry....
    Just saying
  72. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:14 am

    "Correct. You can never 100% get rid of a crime...but why do you think then that it`s pointless to minimise it as much as possible?"

    musko42 - We have more guns than we have people. You will never be able to remove them. You say "why not try". The answer is not just that it wouldn`t work (which it won`t), but to EVEN TRY would mean taking away basic rights guaranteed by our constitution.

    "In a word, yes. Just as it`s easier for a criminal to get hold of a pair of socks or a pack of cigarettes than a machine gun."
    Take the word "machine" out of that sentence then it`s not really true. Maybe in europe it is, but then you guys will give up just about all your rights for the promise of a government ran "paradise".
  73. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:15 am
    @McGovern1981

    "Mexico....."

    Going to ignore the cluster at the bottom of the graph, are you? Those nations with extremely strict gun laws, with extremely low levels of gun murder?

    Just to focus on an exception to the rule?
  74. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:18 am
    @randomxnp
    "If you rape someone that is violence too. The rate of rape here is about 3 times the US rate."
    Rape per 100k in the UK: 28.8
    Rape per 100k in the USA: 27.3
    source


    5Cats
    "32% THEFT = "legal"?
    7.6% Fence OR Black Market = both illegal

    The POINT of that chart is that ONLY 16% of criminal`s guns come from a source that WOULD BE affected by current "gun laws". OK? Unless sweeping new laws are enacted? And many Americans lose their rights? The rest of those sources would not be changed by "more laws"."

    Yes, only 16% of those guns are affected by current guns laws, which only proves my point of a need for better gun control. All those guns WERE originally legal, their owners were just not careful enough and had their gun stolen. Therefore, proper gun con
  75. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:21 am
    @turdburglar

    "We have more guns than we have people. You will never be able to remove them."

    You`re right, I do ask why not even try? Why is it your national rhetoric says that you can accomplish everything...except for when it suits you?

    Again...richest country in the world. You have ZERO excuse for not figuring out how to do it.

    "taking away basic rights guaranteed by our constitution."

    The constitution is just a peice of paper (parchment?) and it doesn`t guarantee you ANY rights; it merely states what rights are inherent in your people.

    My god...how is it that *I*, a Brit, am explaining that to you?

    Anyway, the constitution is like a dictionary: it merely records, not dictates. And if the rights determined by your society and your democracy changes, your constitution changes with it, as it has numerous times. AMMENDMENTS.
  76. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:25 am
    @Musuko

    But what is that opinion based on?
    Well, I can`t necessarily state the reasons that papajon0s1 have for that opinion, but I tend to agree with him based on my own research.

    First off, I don`t think it is appropriate to directly compare homicide rates amongst different countries because it attempts to simplify the complexity in order to shoehorn data into a specific motive. In doing so, we willfully ignore important differences like: geography, culture, race, and other violence.

    So for example, some people are quick to point out that Australia effectively "banned guns" and their homicide rates fell. This neglects the fact that their homicide rates were already considerably lower than in the US. In addition, it neglects that the homicide rates were already dropping prior to the ban, and that the rate of decline slumped after the ban relative to other nations.
  77. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:26 am

    To me the graph shows low economic levels = violence. It is not just because they have guns that there is gun violence. Our states with the most lax gun laws have the lowest gun problems. Chicago, New York, California, those places with tight gun control have higher gun problems. But those 3 places also have low economics. That`s where the American Ghettos are.

    On the graph the poor countries have higher violence than the wealthier countries. So it seems poor people commit crimes.

    Go figure, that`s news.
  78. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:29 am
    @Musuko

    So along that same line of thought, one could easily suggest that the "gun ban" in Australia was counterproductive.

    Additionally, if we are to use such examples, then we should also consider actions that correlate with homicide rate declines in the US. For instance, if we look at the seven years after the Assault Weapons Ban was LIFTED, homicide rates fell on average 40x more than in Australia during the seven years after the "gun ban". Does this not then imply that the lifting of the Assault Weapons Ban was potentially 40x more effective in reducing homicide rates than banning guns?

    This is the problem creating comparisons amongst different countries.

    My answer to that is the same as I give to the "what if" scenario of being attacked by a tiger.
    I think you are far more likely to be "jumped" than attacked by a tiger. I don`t have the stats, but I`m pretty sure.
  79. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Musko42 - All your comments sound so arrogantly european. As if europe is paradise..
    As if we want to be more like europe.

    Personally, I am just fine with how things are. I have a CPL but I don`t feel the need to carry a gun with me. America is not as violent as you imagine. Most all of these homicides are in a few areas, and are gang or drug related.

    Call me an evil bastard, but I don`t care if they kill each other. If your country was as large as the US you would also have some small areas with gang and drug related violence making the whole country`s homicide rates seem much higher.
  80. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:39 am
    "My god...how is it that *I*, a Brit, am explaining that to you?

    Anyway, the constitution is like a dictionary: it merely records, not dictates. And if the rights determined by your society and your democracy changes, your constitution changes with it, as it has numerous times. AMMENDMENTS."

    You obviously don`t understand it right. In a democratic society the laws can and should change as society demands. Constitution included, except the first 10...the bill of rights. The foundation of this country. These are the "god given"/unalienable rights that the country was built around. If you can`t live with those rights, you need to find a new country to live in. It wouldn`t be America with out those rights.
  81. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 9:47 am
    "Our states with the most lax gun laws have the lowest gun problems. Chicago, New York, California, those places with tight gun control have higher gun problems."
    It`s not the gun control that preceded the gun problems, it`s the other way around. Since there are problems stricter gun control was implemented.
  82. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:09 am
    Just to focus on an exception to the rule?

    Ya and you don`t do that sure buddy....
  83. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:16 am

  84. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:18 am
    It`s not the gun control that preceded the gun problems, it`s the other way around. Since there are problems stricter gun control was implemented.

    And it did nothing mabey that would tell you to look beyond objects. Asking alot from someone from the UK where sharp objects are illegal too.
  85. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Canoas, "It`s not the gun control that preceded the gun problems, it`s the other way around."
    Correct. My point was gun control laws do not stop gun violence. Those laws are enacting in low economic areas and haven`t stopped any gun violence. Economic factors are far more important.
  86. Profile photo of Rizzo71
    Rizzo71 Male 40-49
    427 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:23 am
    I don`t need a gun - i still have a dick!
  87. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:27 am
  88. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:28 am
    I don`t need a gun - i still have a dick!
    ... yea, mint condition - never been touched.

    Disclaimer: Stupid comments beget stupid comments.
  89. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:29 am
    I don`t need a gun - i still have a dick!

    Never get get to shoot that either huh? It`s too lower of a caliber to scare anything off anyway....
  90. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:32 am
    Now the UK has Knife surrender bins wonder why that might be??? Remember folks "utopia" is just a few more bans away!
  91. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:34 am

    "I don`t need a gun - i still have a dick!"
    Another thing you don`t want to be waving around in public.
  92. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:48 am

    "I don`t need a gun - i still have a dick!"

    But the balls require a permit from the govt.
    Besides, what good is yer dick when the govt. has taken your arms.
  93. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:50 am

    How do you guys get your quotes in italic font?
  94. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 10:56 am
    @turdburgler

    Stuff in quotes...

    Leave out the spaces within the brackets and you`re in business. Fair warning, the filter breaks if you use quotes and links, and the closing bracket creates a newline for you (so no need to have the space after it).
  95. Profile photo of lifester
    lifester Male 18-29
    2 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 11:02 am
    Assuming this is correct, I think it is fascinating that basically the only countries above 1 wouldn`t be considered first world countries, with the exception of the US of course. In fact of the first world countries on the list excluding the US, the US is on average 9 times higher. Again, the only ones above 1 are, for the most part, corrupt drug and gang riddled countries. Really puts it into perspective no?
  96. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 11:19 am
    @lifester

    Really puts it into perspective no?
    Not really; if anything, it takes it really out of perspective. The US, has on average, far more than 9x the amount of guns than the other nations you reference (per capita). Therefore, it stands to reason that the incidence of misuse per capita is also much greater.

    Consider if Canada outlaws crowbars but the US doesn`t. As such, Canada has far fewer crowbars per capita than the US. Do you suppose that the Canada`s crowbar-homicide rates would therefore be lower that in the US? Duh.

    Let`s think about it a different way. The US has a homicide rate of 4.8/100k and a gun-prevalence rate of 88.9/100. The UK has a homicide rate of 1.2/100k and a gun-prevalence rate of 6/100.

    This means that there are 0.000054 homicides/firearm in the US and 0.0002 homicides/firearm in the UK. A gun is 2.7x more likely to kill you in the UK.
  97. Profile photo of lifester
    lifester Male 18-29
    2 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 11:27 am
    True, stats can be used to paint any picture you want, but when it`s so clear that the US positions itself closer to poor countries than developed countries that is saying something.
  98. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    "True, stats can be used to paint any picture you want,"
    That`s true.
    "9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape." - Jimmy Carr
  99. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:09 pm
    @lifester

    but when it`s so clear that the US positions itself closer to poor countries than developed countries that is saying something
    The issue, of course, is that this is only clear given the narrow stats you are relying on. Just as you imply that my statistics are being used to "paint a picture", I suggest that yours are too.

    For instance, using the homicides/firearm ratio, the US has a better (lower or lesser) ratio than: Japan, South Korea, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Israel, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Denmark, Turkey, Australia, Luxembourg, Belgium, and Greece.

    Canada`s ratio is slightly better (~4%).

    Interestingly, the best countries are: Iceland, Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Germany, Sweden, France, and New Zealand. The average gun/capita rate is 31.6/100 in this group.

    The "bad" countries average gun/capita rate is 10.0/100.

    More guns = safer gun use.
  100. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Thank you @humanaction!
  101. Profile photo of Rizzo71
    Rizzo71 Male 40-49
    427 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:42 pm
    Another thing you don`t want to be waving around in public.
    Absolutely!

    ...too lower of a caliber to scare anything off anyway...
    Can`t complain.

    But the balls require a permit from the govt. Besides, what good is yer dick when the govt. has taken your arms.
    In germany we don`t need a permission from the government to use our balls. And without arms i couldn`t work anymore - they will never take my arms. They aren`t that stupid.

    Thanks HumanAction ;)
  102. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:55 pm
    @Rizzo

    Thanks HumanAction ;)
    Ha - well at least you took it in good fun, which is more than I can say for most. But seriously, you had to know that type of response was coming =P
  103. Profile photo of Profworm
    Profworm Male 30-39
    403 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    I still say gun owners should be held to a higher standard, and be proud of it. They should be willing to learn a gun`s history, proper maintenance and cleaning, and absolutely be able to pass a proficiency test. Because, as it stands, the lack of distinction between a responsible gun owner and the one`s who aren`t is what`s causing a lot of the backlash.

    I worked for years at a convenience store, right on the edge of urban and rural. I`ve had guns pulled on me with intent to rob. I about had a heart attack when two guys walked in with loaded AR-15s, who then bought snacks and left. One time a guy pulled out a giant handgun with `Raging Bull` printed across the side and pointed right at me. All he wanted was to show me his new toy. I threw up after he left.

    It is really hard for me to tell which gun owners are the ones I`m supposed to be defending the rights of. Separate the two, and it`ll be harder to blame the responsible gun owners for what the crazies do.
  104. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    rizzo - It was a play on words. This is a post about gun control. The word "arms" has 2 meanings. Wasn`t being completely literal.
  105. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    you get half down before you get to rational people who hate soccer!!
  106. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    "For instance, using the homicides/firearm ratio, the US has a better (lower or lesser) ratio than: Japan, South Korea, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Israel, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Denmark, Turkey, Australia, Luxembourg, Belgium, and Greece."

    WTF? Yeah, maybe it`s because WE DON`T HAVE FIREARMS. In a country with 0 firearms and 1 homicide then homicide/firearm ratio is infinite. OMG it`s infinite what a pooty country!!11!eleven!
  107. Profile photo of RarLoco
    RarLoco Female 50-59
    53 posts
    March 6, 2013 at 6:53 pm
    proud my country ranks the third best out of all of those wimps.
  108. Profile photo of Rizzo71
    Rizzo71 Male 40-49
    427 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 1:08 am
    I think no one uf us needs a gun.
  109. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 5:51 am
    @Canoas

    Yeah, maybe it`s because WE DON`T HAVE FIREARMS
    Kind of looks like you didn`t read the rest of it. When we assume the US is an outlier and exclude it from the dataset, an obvious and solid inverse trend exists between guns per capita and homicide rates.

    Yes, quite literally, in first world countries, more guns per capita correlates with lower homicide rates. Based on your reaction, I imagine you didn`t already know this.
  110. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 6:07 am
    @Canoas

    So let`s, for your sake, consider the 24 first world countries. For the moment, we`ll forget about homicide/firearm ratios and just talk about guns per capita and homicides per capita.

    Remove the US, and we have a negative trend: -0.022x with an R^2 of 0.1303. What happens if we add the US? We get a positive trend, 0.0205x and an R^2 of 0.1397.

    Now, these are very weak R^2 values, but clearly we see that the US is an outlier. After all, weighted against 23 other countries, the inclusion of the US into the dataset not only negates the trend, but completely reverses it!

    What then has been the point? Well, the entire point in today`s exercise has been to demonstrate that the US cannot be directly compared to other countries because the US does not fit into the same trends and patterns. Because of this, comparing the US to another country would be disingenuous.
  111. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 7:27 am
    @HumanAction

    "Yes, quite literally, in first world countries, more guns per capita correlates with lower homicide rates"

    Lower GUN homicide rate. Not overall homicide rate.
  112. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 7:52 am
    @Musuko

    Lower GUN homicide rate. Not overall homicide rate.
    I am using the homicide rate per country data from Wikipedia. I am not using firearm homicide rates in my data. My statements are accurate that, in general, gun per capita rates inversely correlate with total homicide rates in first world nations.

    Trying to isolate and compare firearm homicides only would be a rather pointless endeavor; the rate would obviously be higher in a country with a greater gun prevalence. Similarly, we would expect to see vehicular homicide rates higher in countries with more vehicles per capita.
  113. Profile photo of naravin
    naravin Female 18-29
    656 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 9:36 am
    Hahahaha.. Latinos like to shoot each other. Beans, beans the magical fruit. The more you eat the more you shoot.
  114. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36829 posts
    March 7, 2013 at 10:42 am

    "In germany we don`t need a permission from the government to use our balls. And without arms i couldn`t work anymore - they will never take my arms. "
    WTH!!!!
    Germans are still carrying guns? Ya know, that hasn`t worked out too well in the past. Why are you guys worked up over the USA when the krouts are still armed!
  115. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 6:45 am
    @HumanAction
    Are you serious? That`s the most retarded thing I`ve heard all day, and I just posted on a topic about global warming filled with conspiracy theories.

    The reason why guns per capita correlates with lower homicides rates is because anyone can get a gun. You see, if anyone can get a gun then whoever doesn`t have a gun is at a disadvantage, so getting a gun will increase your security. However, this is only IF ANYONE CAN GET A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE. The fact that anyone can get a gun will drastically increase the homicide ratio, and then the more people have guns the better chances of defence you have. BUT IN A COUNTRY WHERE YOU CAN`T GET A GUN that is no longer true, having a gun only means you can kill someone and they won`t be able to protect themselves, the more guns there are in a country where guns aren`t available to the public the higher the homicide rate.

    Anyone who isn`t retard can understand this.. but I can`t say I`m surprised you don`t.
  116. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33072 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 10:15 am
    ...the more guns there are in a country where guns aren`t available to the public the higher the homicide rate.
    @Canoas: Don`t be so "fast on the draw" with your accusations of "retard" eh? If English is not your first language I can forgive you for this abomination of a sentence...

    #1 Most of the high death countries severly restrict guns already.
    #2 Per Capita: USA is highest, but NOT the rate of gun deaths. Countries with MUCH LOWER rates have MUCH HIGHER gun deaths. Facts! Become aquainted with them.
    #3 In areas in the USA with HIGH gun ownership rates? LOWEST gun violence. Again, it`s a fact.

    You can repeat "gun-grabber fiction" all you like, but the facts remain unchanged.
  117. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 12:00 pm
    @Canoas

    That`s the most retarded thing I`ve heard all day
    What a pitiful and uninteresting life you must lead...

    Now, seeing as how you apparently prefer to argue based on hypothetical, statistically-bereft "facts", let`s see where we can take your logic.

    First, let us consider your "whoever doesn`t have a gun is at a disadvantage" line. Naturally, some people are at a disadvantage - this is natural and there is no way to overcome it. For example, a 5`2", 110lb woman stands exactly a zero percent chance of fighting off a 6`4", 240lb male attacker with her bare hands. Based on this, you are suggesting that you prefer a system where people are completely at the mercy of their biological constraints; they do not have the option of protecting themselves. I believe you should now see the error of this logic; if not, please do not hesitate to ask for additional assistance.
  118. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    Whew, let`s continue shall we?

    The fact that anyone can get a gun will drastically increase the homicide ratio
    Where exactly is the evidence you are citing? I`ve shown you mine, now you show me yours.

    the more guns there are in a country where guns aren`t available to the public the higher the homicide rate
    Again, please cite your evidence here. I`ve shown you a statistical analysis of first-world countries that suggests the complete opposite.

    Anyone who isn`t retard can understand this
    ... and the word of the day is: retard.

    but I can`t say I`m surprised you don`t.
    Well shucks, I`m honored. Clearly your presentation of emotionally-charged, statistically-absent arguments demonstrates a superior intellect - especially compared to my lousy statistics. Oh wise one, I offer you my humblest sarcasm.
  119. Profile photo of jinxjinx34
    jinxjinx34 Male 30-39
    183 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm
    Half of everybody in Columbia dies from guns? 49.52% of every 100,000 people. Am I reading this wrong?
  120. Profile photo of Canoas
    Canoas Male 18-29
    427 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    @5cats
    the sentence is perfectly coherent

    @HumanAction
    "Based on this, you are suggesting that you prefer a system where people are completely at the mercy of their biological constraints; they do not have the option of protecting themselves."
    If someone is intended on killing you then a gun won`t protect you, so this isn`t about protecting yourself at all, it`s about protecting your materialistic assets. So, the question you`re really asking is, should you be able to shoot someone in order to protect your phone/tv/etc? No, you shouldn`t. Your phone/tv/etc is not more valuable than a human life. Sorry if I`m not a psycopath.

    "Where exactly is the evidence you are citing? I`ve shown you mine, now you show me yours."
    It`s the exact same one you`ve cited.
  121. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm
    @Canoas

    If someone is intended on killing you then a gun won`t protect you
    Ummm... You`re kidding, hopefully. Seriously, just type something in the realm of "My Gun Saved My Life" into Google (or Bing I suppose) and I`m sure you`ll find countless cases that completely disprove your stance.

    But no, seriously, conjecture is like, so totally more persuasive than first-hand accounts and stuff - and like, common sense man. <--- This is what I think of you.

    should you be able to shoot someone in order to protect your phone/tv/etc?
    Well this is an interesting tangent - albeit completely unrelated to what we`ve been discussing.

    Your phone/tv/etc is not more valuable than a human life
    Well hell, might as well just hand over my house and car while I`m at it. After all, they`re just "stuff" right; I shouldn`t protect them.

  122. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    March 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm
    @Canoas

    Sorry if I`m not a psycopath.
    It`s not so much that you`re psychopath. At best you`re naive and at worst an idiot.

    It`s the exact same one you`ve cited.
    The evidence I`ve presented suggests that, in most cases, a well-armed population correlates with a less violent and safer population. So, to be plain, first world countries with a higher percentage of armed citizens, on the average, enjoy lower homicide rates.

    This evidence completely contradicts your statement that I requested a citation for:

    "The fact that anyone can get a gun will drastically increase the homicide ratio"

    Please cite some sort of statistically meaningful evidence to support this claim.

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