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Date: 03/27/13 04:35 PM

55 Responses to Drone Strike Visualization [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14656 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    Link: Drone Strike Visualization - Note `Insurgent` was redefined to mean anyone near a suspected insurgent
  2. Profile photo of Nerd_Rage
    Nerd_Rage Male 18-29
    425 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:08 pm
    only correlation i noticed is how when obama came into office the strike rate shot thru the roof
  3. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:21 pm
    OK.

    I`m confused.

    Can someone please explain to me the difference morally between a drone strike and a strike from a manned aircraft?
  4. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:32 pm
    I wonder if the "he`s Muslim" rumors was actually a strategy to pull wool over the Muslim world`s eyes.
  5. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:36 pm
    Hg: there`s no threat to even a pilot, where hostility can be identified. In a drone strike, the drone operator can be hundreds of miles away and is ordered take out targets who can be civilian or hostiles, makes no difference. They`re just people on a monitor.
  6. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:39 pm
    @HolyGod - I`ve asked that question several times, both in face-to-face conversations as well as online forums & social networks like this, and I have yet to get an answer. 9 of 10 times, the first response I get is someone immediately attacking me with the usual "That`s not the point, that`s not what this discussion is about, how could you bring up a question like that?" That`s immediately followed by me laughing and dismissing the other person as your typical "I`m politically correct and have to be offended by everything and pretend to care so I feel good about myself" kind of person.
  7. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:48 pm
    @paperduck - In a manned vehicle (fighter, bomber, gunship, etc) they`re also "just people on a monitor." The pilots/gunners are still miles away and if you`re on the ground when the JDAM hits you never even hear the plane. We`d call in an airstrike and, if approved, we were then in direct contact with the pilot and/or crew. The only reason we know it`s coming is because they relay that info to us so we know when to put our heads down. They shoot, tell you how long you have until impact and then BOOM!
  8. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6269 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 5:58 pm
    Nerd_Rage-"only correlation i noticed is how when obama came into office the strike rate shot thru the roof"

    While I`m far from an Obama fan (regulars can attest to that) I`d think the correlations is only partially due to the administration`s policies.

    A good portion of it can be due to the advances of the technology and the increasingly usefullness of the hardware.

    Think of it this way: If you compared the number of automobile deaths in the US under William McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt, you`ll see that there were almost 30 times more automobile deaths under Roosevelt.
  9. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    paperduck

    "They`re just people on a monitor."

    HUH?

    You think a plane going hundreds of miles an hour has a view of who they are shooting a missile at? They have coordinates or a painted target. That`s it.
  10. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:05 pm
    MeGrendel

    That kind of capacity for common sense reasoning is why I don`t put you in the same category as the crazy right wingers on here.
  11. Profile photo of earplay
    earplay Male 60-69
    121 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:05 pm
    In the case cited by whodat8464, there are human eyes on target. This human factor putatively increases certainty that your target is valid. Reliance on solely electronic information can be less selective, hence raising the risk of collateral damage.
  12. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:07 pm
    @paperduck: What`s the difference between a drone strike and an artillery barrage? None.

    It`s just another "anti-war smokescreen" to make dumb people join their "movement"... they used to protest the cruise missile! LMAO!
  13. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:10 pm
    @earplay - Correct, when they`re providing CAS there are human eyes on target. That`s not all they do though, they`re also flying regular sorties as well based on intel, taking out anything from enemy comm`s, supply, air defense, etc. Those JDAM`s they drop hit targets that don`t have human eyes on them either and they`re dropped from miles away.
  14. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:13 pm
    Hg if an airstrike is called to presumably a legitimate target (not a group of civillians) that are hostile to whoevers on the ground, or a target is identified that is a lot different than a "target" on a Sunday stroll or at home. There is no way to tell situation is about to turn deadly. Neither the targeted person nor anyone around thinks they are in danger. That why we hear of family members, target`s children, and other "collateral damage". People can wander in there whereas civilians are unlikely to walk to an area receiving and giving fire. The civilian death toll is higher with drone strikes for this reason. It makes sense if you think about it.
  15. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:30 pm
    5cats big difference. Picture yourself living there trying to make a living and not really interested in war. How likely are you to go to the front lines for a picnic where an artillery barrage can be expected? Whereas you may go to the wrong street at the wrong time and it can be struck by drone because someone wanted was there at that very moment.
  16. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:40 pm
    Paperduck

    "where an artillery barrage can be expected? "

    I`m confused. Are you under the impression that before drones there were no aerial strikes except for near the front lines of active military conflicts?

    Manned planes have bombed and bomb targets all over the world.
  17. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6269 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:42 pm
    @HolyGod

    I `try` and inject at least a miniscule amount of logic into the conversation. (not TOO much, mind, as I wouldn`t want to confuse the casual observer.)

    Thanks.
  18. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36870 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    blah blah blah Drones! blah blah blah

    How is bombing someone with a drone different from bombing them with a Bomber Airplane, which no one seems to mind? I`ll tell you, the drone is much more accurate and doesn`t kill as many people around the target.

    Over 3000 killed in the last 8 years you say?
    So? Bomber Airplanes killed a lot more than 3000 in just 4 years in WWII. And most of those were not soldiers.

    War sucks. People die. Stop being whiney little pussies.
  19. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6269 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm
    Among all the reasons for drone warefare, pilot safety is far down on the list.

    Some to consider:
    Drones are cheap, so you can build more.
    Drones are small, so basically stealthy and able to be easily deployed.
    Small, light and fuel efficiency means more time on site.
    It`s a force multiplier.

    The FACT that there is no pilot does allow for many of those advantages.

    Plus, DRONE`S are not a new idea, as remote control airplanes date back to at least World War I. They`re just more viable now.
  20. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 6:53 pm
    @paperduck - " How likely are you to go to the front lines for a picnic where an artillery barrage can be expected?"

    You may not know this, seems a lot of people don`t know it, but all the fighting over there is either guerilla warfare or urban/house-to-house combat.

    There are no "front lines", or more accurately, the "front lines" are always right in front of you, wherever that may happen to be.
  21. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 7:13 pm
    The only part that I read was "We want to shock people ..... shock people with how much information we really don`t know."

    Oh my god, the absence of knowledge! It`s just sooo staggering in overwhelming non-existence!
  22. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 7:48 pm
    Hg: the last drone like attack I remember is the attack on Qaddafis house by Reagan with a regular bomber. Correct me if I`m wrong, but we don`t carpet bomb cities anymore either. Targets with traditional jets have been radars, tanks, arms depots, military posts, etc. We didn`t try to bomb someone in their neighborhood or house or road. The likelihood of civilians in these surgical strikes are not as great as with drones that target a person going about his business in everyday life where other unsuspecting people could be around. It`s one thing to be a civilian casualty by a military post or tank, quite another to be a civilian casualty at a wedding or at a marketplace.
  23. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 7:51 pm
    @Gerry:

  24. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    Whodat i understand that. Perhaps front line is not the best terminology. What i mean is there are targets where a civilian can know not to be around, the guerilla outpost or meeting place. Wherever there is action. As i understand it, drones strike individuals wherever they might be. Home, at a wedding, funeral, on their way from point A to point B, etc. How can civilians know not to be there? They can`t.
  25. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 8:52 pm
    the last drone like attack I remember is...
    @paperduck: Um, the ENTIRE war with Serbia? Under Clinton? The USA, Britian and the rest of NATO dropped bombs like they were going out of fashion!
    Bridges? Factories? Houses? Weddings? BOMBS!

    It was from those mistakes that "smart" bombs (ie: self-guiding, WAY more accurate!) and drones were developed.

    Why drop 10 bombs when only 1 hits the target?

    @HolyGod, @WhoDat @MeGrendel and @Gerry1 have ALL given excellent reasons why drones are not only better than bombers, they`re safer too!

    You should also look up "human shield" which is what various terrorists use ALL THE TIME with the specific hope that they DIE and are useful propaganda fodder...
  26. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 8:56 pm
    "Only correlation i noticed is how when obama came into office the strike rate shot thru the roof"

    Maybe if you ignore the last half of 2008 when the strike rate really started going through the roof under Bush. This program was put into place long before Obama got in. Not making excuses for Obama, I just understand how painfully slow our government moves. Some people act like he got in and immediately demanded that we start bombing the hell out of Pakistan. If you want to blame Obama on this one blame him for not stoping the program.
  27. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 9:10 pm
    Noticed it was a HuffPo link and didn`t click.
  28. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 10:27 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Noticed it was a HuffPo link and didn`t click."

    Which is EXACTLY the reason you will remain a single-minded, bigoted, biased, bubble-dweller till the day you die. You only read and watch things that reinforce the views and opinions you already have. Good luck with that.
  29. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 10:50 pm
    I`ve got to stick up for Crakrjak on this one HolyGod. There are some websites that are so biased and so full of lies I won`t waste one second of my life on them. Brietbart immediately comes to mind. Maybe the Huffington Post is CrakrJak`s Breitbart.
  30. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 11:00 pm
    Markust123

    "There are some websites that are so biased and so full of lies I won`t waste one second of my life on them. Brietbart immediately comes to mind. Maybe the Huffington Post is CrakrJak`s Breitbart."

    1. I will read a breitbart link. Just because the site has a slant doesn`t mean that everything it says is a lie. There may be factual information within the article or it may provide a good point contrary to my own.

    2. HuffPo is an aggregator. There are hundreds of contributors with different views and opinions, some of which happen to be conservative.

    Little known fact: Breitbart helped found Huffington Post.

    Know Ariana`s first site? Resignation.com a site for conservatives demanding Clinton`s resignation.
  31. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 11:38 pm
    "I will read a breitbart link. Just because the site has a slant doesn`t mean that everything it says is a lie. There may be factual information within the article or it may provide a good point contrary to my own."

    We`ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don`t think anything good can come from partisan opinion blogs - their whole goal is to create anger and enemies with ridiculous us against them sensational stories. There are quite a few people on here who are perfect examples of what partisan blogs do to a persons mind and sense of reason.
  32. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 11:40 pm
    Whoo! The attacks got really frequent starting around the beginning of 2009! Craziness!

    (We are at war. drat em)
  33. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 27, 2013 at 11:54 pm
    Markust

    "There are quite a few people on here who are perfect examples of what partisan blogs do to a persons mind and sense of reason."

    Right. What ONE SIDE can do. I definitely skew liberal so I feel like it is important to get some info from the other skew. Know hat I mean?

    Plus let`s say some guy is going off on breitbart about something horrible Obama is doing, the article may link to actual facts and data that are interesting and I probably wouldn`t have gotten otherwise.
  34. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 12:11 am
    If it`s not on CNN.com, FoxNews.com or MSNBC.com then there`s a pretty good chance what you are seeing is just sensationalism. I got sucked into that world for a few years. Never ever ever again. It is a negative horrible place.
  35. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 12:44 am
    markust123

    "It is a negative horrible place."

    I`m with ya brotha. However I just popped over to breitbart and this was on the front page:

    tinyurl.com/buxract

    I find that interesting and never would have seen it otherwise.

    There is also quite a few reasonable articles thrown in among the slander.

    I look at it this way, if you want to be able to even remotely see where people like Crakr are coming form then you need to peek in on the propaganda that brainwashes them.
  36. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 12:49 am
    I`m HolyGod on this one, I consider myself libertarian. Yet I still watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report even though they skew liberal (especially Colbert). On top of that Cavuto`s and Stossel`s shows the Fox Business channel. I`ve certainly found a lot of BS in WorldNetDaily (or DailyNutWorld as I prefer) and DemocracyNow articles. I simply don`t dismiss them out of hand because of the source.
  37. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 12:50 am
    tinyurl.com/buxract

    Want another Fox News anchor who changed his tune on the subject?

    Glenn Beck.
  38. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6919 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 1:02 am
    Cajun247

    "Want another Fox News anchor who changed his tune on the subject?"

    I think the smart people on the right are figuring out that if they want to stay relevant they have to get their s.hit together and distance themselves from the religious zealots and bigots.

    If they don`t then when our generation starts voting in high numbers and OldOllie`s generation starts dying they are F.UCKED.

    They need to get away from anti-gay, anti-science, anti-education and go back to focusing on fiscal issues and smaller government. That is how they will come back.

    I`d love to see the republican party go away and get replaced by the libertarian party.
  39. Profile photo of irunfast86
    irunfast86 Male 18-29
    404 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 5:07 am
    obama is really showing why he deserves that nobel peace prize. what has he done differently then bush other then force people to pay into health care and raise my taxes?
  40. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 6:32 am
    So drones only seem to hit civilians no hajis were killed in large number by them seems legit.........
  41. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 7:13 am
    @HolyGod: "I think the smart people on the right are figuring out..."

    Yes, but then how do you account for Glenn Beck`s change of mind?

    *badum-ksshh!* I crack myself up.
  42. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 7:40 am
    HG: I have no aversion to facts, but in this case, this blog has been anti-military for a long long time. And instead of taking Obama to task for any screw ups, like the secret service prostitution debacle, they (the liberal media and blogs) give him a pass.

    Besides these casualties are counted as `civilians` after they`ve hidden their weapons from view. Guerrillas hide in plain sight, these drones stay up for many hours following them to and from their hiding places. But you and the rest of the public get shown these leaked, edited, short videos in an effort to skew public opinion.

    You have no idea what those so called `civilians` were doing a half-hour or hour before that and you WON`T get the truth about it from a site like HuffPo.
  43. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 8:20 am
    "I look at it this way, if you want to be able to even remotely see where people like Crakr are coming form then you need to peek in on the propaganda that brainwashes them."

    I know exactly where people like Crakr are coming from - I lived it, just on the other side. It`s just simple brainwashing through repetition. On either side, the blogs, radio shows, cable news and watchdogs repeat the same points over and over and over and over until the thoughts are your own. The worst part is how hostile the world is. In order for them to sell you anything they have to keep you in a constant state of anger and agitation. In that state you will pretty much accept anything from these "trusted" sources. It is the same exact technique used for brainwashing.
  44. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 8:23 am
    What is this sites definition of "other?" Cats, Dogs, chickens and Al-Q????
  45. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 8:28 am
    I got out of the world of opinion media because it was affecting our family. I wouldn`t talk to my conservative parents for months at a time because of some stupid issue both sides of the media were pushing. The conversation would always go to partisan politics and the anger and hostility that our family has not ever known would come in. I still refuse to talk partisan politics with my parents (because they are still in that world) and our relationship is awesome. We can still talk politics just not the sensational crap like Beghazi, global warming, whose fault the national debt is... This site is the only place I stick my toe back in sometimes but I try so hard not to.
  46. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 8:43 am
    "I have no aversion to facts, but in this case, this blog has been anti-military for a long long time. And instead of taking Obama to task for any screw ups, like the secret service prostitution debacle, they (the liberal media and blogs) give him a pass."

    The news loves a good scandal. Look at the circus that surrounded the Clinton impeachment hearings, Michael Jackson, OJ...etc. There just must not have been as big a story with the secret service scandal as the conservative blogs were trying to create. And the news is not anti-militry. The Iraqi war Shock and Awe was all they could show and talk about for days. What the news does not do is sensational journalism. What you should really be asking yourself is why do the places you visit focus on these stories every day for weeks at a time sometimes years. I`ll give you a hint, it`s not because the news is not reporting on these stories any more.
  47. Profile photo of Bakcagain21
    Bakcagain21 Male 18-29
    560 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 9:42 am
    Other by far is the biggest group. Does this mean low level insurgents? Or are drones only acceptable for high profile insurgents. If we get the definition of "Other" which is by far the biggest gorup we can give meaning to this.
  48. Profile photo of ak4775
    ak4775 Male 30-39
    354 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    This guy has an immense hard-on for his amazing visualization graph but how does he know who was civilian or "insurgent"? No doubt civilians are dying but even after the smoke clears its impossible to tell. I`m on the fence when it comes to drone strikes but it seems to be the lesser of two evils. I feel for the innocents caught in the middle as they didn`t ask to become a human shield for some crackpot religious nutjobs.
  49. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm
    Besides these casualties are counted as `civilians` after they`ve hidden their weapons from view.

    Oh I see, they`re labeled terrorists after they`ve been blown up by hellfire missiles. Those bastards deserve to die because they won`t get out of the way of our munitions. Their friends and families won`t care they`ll understand that they were hellbound henchmen up to no good.
  50. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 6:26 pm
    @Cajun247 - You obviously don`t get it either. You have to learn to take what you hear on the news about civilians, women & children being killed with a grain of salt. Judging by what I`ve seen with my own eyes the overwhelming majority of women & children who are found in the rubble after airstrikes were put there by these "hellbound henchmen up to no good." Wanna know why? Because the f*cking haji`s know that dead women & children = headline news across the world.
  51. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 10:19 pm
    Because the f*cking haji`s know that dead women & children = headline news across the world.

    It`s not just headlines around the world though dude, it`s a perfect tool for the very same people to recruit more. Anyone is more likely to trust their neighbor over some foreign entity that comes in smashing their neighborhood. Even if they were involved in some shady organization.
  52. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 10:29 pm
    The same people that feel sorry for the Guantanamo Bay detainess, will buy this. And besides, Obama is a god to some of you. Gotta choose one stance or the other.
  53. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 10:30 pm
    Now suppose the locals do realize this manipulation. They simply will not forgive the US for the destruction they`ve caused. The next generation of society and leadership will be one that is so adamantly hostile towards the US. Cuba and Iran are good examples of this.
  54. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 28, 2013 at 10:37 pm
    The same people that feel sorry for the Guantanamo Bay detainess, will buy this. And besides, Obama is a god to some of you.

    In case you haven`t noticed I don`t support Obama and I also don`t support putting suspected terrorists through semi-secret military tribunals simply because they`re too "dangerous" for federal courts.
  55. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 29, 2013 at 7:16 am
    The next generation of society and leadership will be one that is so adamantly hostile towards the US. Cuba and Iran are good examples of this.

    Ya they were so friendly before all those hugs and kisses the sent us we`re such big meanies......... The only thing they see hope in is 72 virgins to nail after death oblige them.

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