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Category: Misc
Date: 03/20/13 09:03 AM

50 Responses to Bradley Manning: A Whistle Blower`s Court Martial

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:11 am
    Link: Bradley Manning: A Whistle Blower`s Court Martial - Leaked recording of Manning`s response to Baghdad Apache airstrike video showing the killing of 2 Reuters journalists.
  2. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:13 am
    More here also (besides the credits link story)
  3. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:23 am
    Isn`t there an internal ethics committee he could have gone through to report possible unethical action/war crimes instead of the Internet?
  4. Profile photo of Smoothjc1
    Smoothjc1 Male 50-59
    260 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:36 am
    American Hero.
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:44 am

    He deserves prison.
    A PFC... the lowest possible rank, does not make the decision as to what is and is not classified. If he felt it was his moral obligation to disclose this horrible tragedy, then he was fully aware the consequences of his actions would be prison. He made his choice.

    As for the reporters who were killed. It`s war, if you hang out with the enemy you are likely to get shot.... DUH.
  6. Profile photo of greenbasterd
    greenbasterd Male 18-29
    2377 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:02 am
    actually its not war... its an illegal invasion.. but nice try
  7. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:05 am
    "He deserves prison.
    A PFC... the lowest possible rank, does not make the decision as to what is and is not classified. If he felt it was his moral obligation to disclose this horrible tragedy, then he was fully aware the consequences of his actions would be prison. He made his choice.

    As for the reporters who were killed. It`s war, if you hang out with the enemy you are likely to get shot.... DUH."

    In other words, there is no room for an individual`s personal sense of ethics in a military situation. So Daniel Ellsberg is also a traitorous S.O.B..
  8. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:11 am
    Manning IS a hero, and the treatment he has received from our government is yet another Bush-era embarrassment to this nation.
  9. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:22 am

    @ FoolsPrussia - No, there isn`t room for individuality. It`s called a chain of command and it has been drilled into you from the first second of boot camp. If you think there is a problem there is a chain of command you can go to. The ones with the rank to make the decisions do. You do NOT go to the civilian press with classified information. You do NOT make those decisions yourself when you are barely out of boot camp.

    If you allowed every buck private to make his own personal decisions based on his own moral code the whole thing falls apart. Military discipline is about the UNIT, not the individual.

    People die in war. It`s a fact. What is with this pussy mentality that we are supposed to have casualty-free wars? No wonder we`re losing.
  10. Profile photo of Fwoggie2
    Fwoggie2 Male 30-39
    1803 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:31 am
    I don`t think he should have leaked the information, secrets are supposed to stay secret - but the treatment of him since he was arrested is absolutely beyond the pale, and completely unnecessary. I don`t understand what the joint chiefs are trying to prove, and to who. Maybe they`re hoping he`ll kill himself just to make the problem of what to do with him go away.
  11. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:46 am
    I have no respect for him because he is some dweeb private. And FP, privates can decide whether or not to kill an innocent woman, but not whether or not a few million documents should be released and expect to not face any consequences. My dad was a colonel, I was Petraeus` neighbor, I know how it works. Exposing this stuff is better left to senior NCO`s or company grade officers. And I can guarantee you, it would`ve been if it was worthy. The modern military of NATO is the most transparent military in history.

    greenbastard - What divides invasions into legal and illegal categories? That is such a bizarre and bureaucratic concept to which no real test can be applied, as apparently congress authorizing the invasion with Bipartisan support wasn`t good enough. Yes, Hillary, Biden, Feinstein, Dodd, Edwards, Reid, Schumer - they all supported the war.
  12. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:46 am
    Did he do it for pay? No. For Fame? To aid the enemy? No and no. He did it because an injustice was done, the people responsible weren`t held accountable and our military and political leaders think it`s perfectly fine to kill innocents and joke about it.
    Pfc Manning is a TRUE war hero.
  13. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:47 am
    All I know, is if I were a reporter, I wouldn`t be hanging around guys with RPGs and AKs in a battle zone. My death would be expected in that instance.

    Manning was in the wrong to shoot his mouth off about anything above his pay grade. Treason. Death by firing squad. Move on.
  14. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:47 am
    And chalket, you know who is president, right? It`s been 4 years going on 5, give it a rest.
  15. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:51 am
    "People die in war. It`s a fact. What is with this pussy mentality that we are supposed to have casualty-free wars? No wonder we`re losing."

    This isn`t World War 2. It`s Iraq. We shouldn`t even have started that war.
  16. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:56 am

    @ FoolsPrussia, That`s a side issue not related to the topic at hand. But I agree we shouldn`t be there...but we are so it`s still war and there will be casualties. If a journalist wants to hang with the enemy for their story, then he knows he runs the risk of getting killed `cause we are shooting at them.

    The topic however is the soldiers treason by exposing classified information. Treason in wartime is a capital offense. He`s lucky he`s just getting prison time.
  17. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:59 am
    "A PFC... the lowest possible rank"

    Private First Class (PFC) is E-3 in the Army, E-2 in the Marines Corps, it`s not the lowest possible rank. In the article they refer to him as "PFC" and "Private" so I`m guessing he was busted down to Pvt (E-1) at the court martial.

    Aside from the Pfc/Pvt mix-up, you`re right on the money. Talking to the press about anything, classified or not, is grounds for a court martial, maybe just an NJP depending on the situation. From day one we were told that, I think it`s in the enlistment contract as well. I`m not 100% sure because I only read it twice, when I enlisted in 1997 & reenlisted in 2001. He was intel and had a Top Secret security clearance, he knew what he was doing and what would happen if he got busted.
  18. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 10:59 am

    CaptKangaroo, "Did he do it for pay? No. For Fame? To aid the enemy? No and no. He did it because an injustice was done, the people responsible weren`t held accountable"
    The people responsible were the journalists who decided to risk their lives filming the enemy in action. They knew they were in a war zone and that US troops would shoot at the enemy if sighted. They are responsible, no one else.

    And "Captain" , may I say your attitude is a disgrace to the uniform of Kangaroos!
  19. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:02 am

    PFC is an E3... Oh well, we`ll just let him direct the whole war with experience like that.

    PFC means you managed to get out of boot camp. You`re still lower than whale schitt on the chain of command.
  20. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:14 am
    I think he did a better service leaking the video than being in that stupid oil war. A needless war over petty resources.
  21. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:18 am

    "stupid oil war"
    While I am not in favor of that war, this idea that oil is not worth fighting for is ridiculous. If you disagree, try living without it for a single day. You can`t. You would have no goods, no textiles, no transportation, no heating or power, no food...nothing.

    The thing you are typing on now is a petroleum product as is the power supply that makes it work.
  22. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:24 am
    Gerry is correct about the oil. The reason why economic growth is so sluggish these days is because of expensive oil and energy. The 90`s had cheap oil. Most of the post-war boom period had cheap oil.

    Forget about tax rates and their effect on economic growth, it`s really cheap energy.
  23. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:27 am
    "PFC means you managed to get out of boot camp."

    I can only speak for the Marine Corps, not the Army, maybe they just give promotions away. An E-3 is a Lance Corporal (Lcpl) and at that rank I was a fire-team leader just shy of 2 years time in service. I wouldn`t call that just managing to get out of boot camp.
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:30 am

    @whodat6484 - okay, so in the Army is a PFC allowed to override an officers decision and give information to the press? Or are we just getting caught up in trivia?

    At any rank it is treason, unless you are the person responsible for making the decision.
  25. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:40 am
    Was the war wrong? Yes and I don`t think many will debate that.

    Wrong or not, the way this moron went about acting on personal conviction was wrong and could have gotten even more people killed. There were other means available to him within his chain of command.

    The heroes aren`t dumbarses like this guy, it`s guys like @whodat6484 that went and did their job and either came home or died doing it. As a veteran myself I salute each and every damned one of them and to hell with people who think otherwise.
  26. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 11:48 am
    @Gerry1of1 - Not trivia, just clearing up that the rank of E-3 doesn`t mean you just made it out of boot camp. It`s actually a common misconception by people who have never served in the military.

    I guess that`s the only part of my comment you actually read since you`re being so defensive. If you read the rest, you`ll see that I`m on the same side of the argument as you are. He knew that the information was classified, he knew that he had no authorization to release any of the info and he knew what the consequences would be if he got caught.
  27. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 12:13 pm
    In the Airforce, you will usually be an E-3 by the time you end up being stationed anywhere. You have regular boot camp, but then they usually send you to a tech school or some other specialty training and by the time you`re done with that you`re almost always an E-3. That`s why on many bases that don`t have those training facilities, E-2`s are rare and E-1`s are nonexistent.

    I can`t speak to what the army does exactly though. Although I did know somebody who was a PFC when he was 17 in high school. Promotions happened faster during the Iraq war, I think.
  28. Profile photo of pladius
    pladius Male 30-39
    27 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 12:39 pm
    Promotions to E-4 are decentralized, meaning, they are basically automatic and at governed at the company level.
    To be promoted to E-3 you have to have at least 4 months as an E-2 and have been in the Army for at least 1 year.
    Military intelligence soldiers can spend up to a year in training, before they ever reach their first duty station, hence the `Fresh out of Bootcamp`.
    @Andrew155 - The 17-year-old was probably involved in JROTC in high school. There are a few branches of service that will promote enlisted members up to E-3 for 3-4 years of JROTC, the Air Force is one of them.
  29. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    4050 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    Here`s a question that I don`t know the answer to. When was the last time an American was convicted of a "War Crime"?
  30. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 12:55 pm
    Wow, I kind of had an idea that the Army`s promotion system was quicker than the Marine Corps but I didn`t know it was that fast!

    In the Marine Corps E-2 & E-3 are decentralized. You need at least 6 months TIS & TIG to make E-2, 9 months TIS and 8 months TIG as an E-2 to be promoted to E-3.

    Then the "composite score" comes into play when you`re looking at making Corporal (E-4) and Sergeant (E-5).

    Depending on your MOS you can expect to be a Lcpl (E-3) for a long time. I know some guys who never made it past Lcpl by the time they finished their 4 years, we called them a "Terminal Lance."
  31. Profile photo of pladius
    pladius Male 30-39
    27 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:06 pm
    @whodat6484 - E-4 is automatic because the grade is shared by Specialist and Corporal. It depends on position. Think of it like Master Sergeant and First Sergeant. While corporals are technically nco`s, you aren`t really considered an nco until E-5 in the Army.
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm
    Wow so you mean if you hang out with armed Hajis you might get shot the f**k up who`d of thunk it!!!! Oh look that area just exploded lets drive the kids over there to pick up the weapons and corpses what`s the worst that could happen fun for the whole haji bunch family....
  33. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:26 pm
    stupid oil war

    ROFL!! Now show me how much oil we get from Iraq.
  34. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm
    @pladius - Ah, ok thanks, that clears it up for me. I guess it has something to do with manpower because we always had to do more with less. When I was selected as a fire team leader, which is an NCO Billet on the books, I was a Lcpl. There were usually 1 or 2 per platoon because someone has to fill the position, the rest were almost always Corporals. It would be nice if the rank/promotion systems were more universal between all the branches. That would definitely clear up a lot of confusion, especially since we all work side by side when deployed.
  35. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:34 pm
    @McGovern1981 - I hated having reporters around period because someone was always stuck having to f*cking babysit them. I`m sure I speak for all combat vets when I say that the last thing I want to do is get my a$$ shot off, or lose one of my Marines, because some reporter got himself in a situation he couldn`t handle and we had to go save his dumba$$!
  36. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:38 pm
    People around the world are chanting "DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!..." And this video holds a good clue (to the clueless) as to why they are doing that.

    It`s sad that nation houses the world`s number one terrorist regime, but to sit around and do nothing about it is even worse. Worse still, is the low level the terrorist organization stoops to when its commanders want to cover up it`s actions such as this, and continue to trump `freedom & justice`. It`s hypocritical, but most of the world is aware of it`s ways.

    Too bad this guy is facing such harsh penalties, because he was bold and heroic to release this video to let other people know what he saw. No doubt there are other such videos.
  37. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 1:45 pm
    @TheGuySmiley

    You should take the reporters place and interview kockmed the misunderstood haji!
  38. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 2:07 pm
    @TheGuySmiley - The first group of people they engaged in that clip were insurgents. Then a van pull up and people exit the vehicle to help the insurgents. Not a smart move on their part, in doing that they turned themselves from non-combatants into targets.

    While I was over there our rules of engagement were very strict. As grunts on the ground we were only cleared to shoot if we saw one of them with a weapon or if they shot first. A few times I saw with my own eyes a haji who had just shot at us, ran down an alley into a building, ditched his AK and walked out onto the street. We all saw him, we all knew it was him, but there wasn`t a damn thing we could do about it because he was "unarmed."

    About the children, what the gunner said is true. They purposely put children in positions where they can be injured/killed because they know that kind of sh*t makes the headlines.
  39. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    normalfreak2, "Here`s a question that I don`t know the answer to. When was the last time an American was convicted of a "War Crime""
    Bush & Chaney were convicted of War Crimes in December 2011 in a tribunal held in Malaysia. Tried in absentia, both are still free and at large. Bush is still wanted in several European countries.
  40. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    ROFL!! Now show me how much oil we get from Iraq.

    C`mon it`s obvious the US is profiting from oil sales now. How many US oil/gas/services/construction companies are over there now? Also, before wars oil was under $30/ barrel, now with all the hands in that pie it`s $100/barrel. Yeah right there is no connection.
  41. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 3:46 pm
    War is hell. Are there bad things done? Yes. But I get so sick and tired of all soldiers being labeled as `baby killers` or what have you by people that usually have no military experience whatsoever and are simply following the crowd.

    @theguysmiley:

    Seriously come up with some new trolling tactics. Your drivel is really stale and lacks originality.
  42. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 4:39 pm
    The more technology turns war into a video game, the more we`re going to see guys with little joy sticks in their hands, sitting in an air-conditioned trailer and sipping Cokes a hundred miles from the action, blowing away non-combatants like they`re so many insects.
  43. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 5:21 pm
    djwajda: thanks for letting me know how it affects ya, but it`s a free world. If it really bothers you though, do your duty.
  44. Profile photo of g3n3r1k
    g3n3r1k Male 18-29
    250 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 5:30 pm
    @carmium: you dont deserve the slightest rebuttal. enjoy your cynical fantasy world. lol
  45. Profile photo of djwajda
    djwajda Male 40-49
    885 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:21 pm
    @theguysmiley

    Who said it bothered me? I said it was getting old and boring, nothing more. And you`re right, it is a free world, that`s about the only thing you`ve said in this thread that has any merit. So by all means continue the same old and tired crap if that is how you get your jollies.

  46. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    March 20, 2013 at 9:29 pm
    If this were all he did, I might have some sympathy for him.
  47. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3447 posts
    March 21, 2013 at 12:54 am
    I see they removed my previous comment. Was it that offensive?
  48. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 21, 2013 at 5:51 am
    @paperduck

    1
  49. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    March 21, 2013 at 5:53 am
    If it were a war for oil Canada would have been a way more valid target.

    P.S. Syria has now used nerver gas....wonder where they could have ever gotten such a thing....
  50. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    March 21, 2013 at 5:54 am

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