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Date: 02/21/13 01:22 PM

49 Responses to The American Health Care Mess [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:23 pm
    Link: The American Health Care Mess - It`s a great system for the executives raking it in at the top. Everyone else? Not so much.
  2. Profile photo of Tekinette
    Tekinette Male 30-39
    273 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:44 pm
    Yup the US is the last place I would like to be sick in, health is a busisness over there, just shows how disgusting pure capitalism can be.
  3. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:47 pm
    So make everyone get health insurance that`s sure to fix the problem........ :-|
  4. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:48 pm
    Anual health care cost per person is $8K and above for the US???? Where are they getting that number? I get my health insurance myself (the vendor company I work for does not supply this). I spend $3K a YEAR on insurance. Someone younger can get insurance for probably half that. Oh wait, are they talking about how much we actually spend on health care, not about insurance?
  5. Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:52 pm
    liberal garbage. one of the first graphs proves this whole thing irrelevant. it doesn`t matter how much a country spends on healthcare, life expectancy has little to do with healthcare.

    protip: US is the LEADER in ALL medicine in the world and the shortest wait
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 1:55 pm
    "So make everyone get health insurance that`s sure to fix the problem"

    That is the plan, then people won`t have to file bankruptcy when they have major medical problems. I think medical bankruptcy is one of the biggest reasons health care is so expensive in the US. It is completely irresponsible not to have health insurance. Without it people can be a major drain on society.
  • Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    then people won`t have to file bankruptcy when they have major medical problems.

    thanks for admitting you know nothing about anything.

    in the US, you cannot be "gone after" (sued, harassed, etc) for medical debt.
  • Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 2:01 pm
    and yeah, apparently if you leave img tag open, it breaks IAB comment section
  • Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 2:02 pm
    Or you could you know find out why it costs so damn much and fix that oh but then the insurance companies won`t get to screw us with an oligarchy.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    "Or you could you know find out why it costs so damn much and fix that"

    I believe that`s what Squrlz`s post is suggesting....
  • Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 3:00 pm
    just shows how disgusting pure capitalism can be.
    Tekinette, show me this "pure capitalism" in the USA of which you speak. Seems like an awful lot of cronyism in this "pure capitalism."
  • Profile photo of Wayoldman
    Wayoldman Male 50-59
    72 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 3:47 pm
    Darkmagic14n I don`t know what planet you live on, but I have turned over to several collection agencies harassed threaten and sued for nonpayment of medical bills a lot of time. Before you say AH a deadbeat. I`m on disability Medicare and can`t get insurance due to preexisting illness and I am a U.S. born white citizen!
  • Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14626 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 4:45 pm
    In Hong Kong, public hospitals (super advanced, no wait) cost a maximum of $12 a day, unless you`re poor, then they`re free... or unless you`re not a resident, then you`re sent to private practice.

    Radiotherapy, chemo and in-patient? $12
    MRI and surgery for ruptured vertebral disc? $12
    Emergency service, chest x-rays, blood tests? $12
    Prescription for expensive drugs? $12*

    *Unless you already paid $12 for treatment, then it`s free.

    Poor? Free
    Unemployed/underemployed? Free
    Over 65? Free
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6171 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 4:54 pm
    The infant mortality rate is bogus, too. It`s skewed due to the different definitions of `alive`.

    In Canada, Germany, Austria and Norway, babies below a certain weight are considered `unsalvageable`, which means they are never considered `alive`. Thus the high mortality rate of underweight babies does not get counted for these countries.

    The US, however, considers ANY child born breathing a live birth.

    And low-weight babies have a MUCH higher chance of survival in the US.

    Norway boasts one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. But when the main determinant of mortality — weight at birth — is factored in, Norway has no better survival rates than the United States.

    Also, I rather enjoy not having to wait 3-8 months for hip or knee replacement. It`s really nice to be able to get into an MRI in hours, rather than the average weeks or months for Canada.
  • Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    "It`s really nice to be able to get into an MRI in hours,"
    - That`s if you have insurance

    Also, the high cost of medical care is in no small part linked to the high cost of education. Kind of a catch-22, the entire system is built to screw us over.
  • Profile photo of avail9988
    avail9988 Male 18-29
    700 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 5:26 pm
    Australia: Free, I have never paid one cent for health care in my entire life (except dental that poo is expensive) and I have been to hospital 11 times..
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 5:29 pm
    Bankruptcy stats according to warped metrics. DoJ says no more than 10% involve anything above $5000 and yes they include debt charged to credit cards.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 5:40 pm
    How about this: we deny highway funding to states who ban cross state insurance. This will deny domestic insurers control of the markets.
    In addition:
    -End the tax credit for employer provided plans
    -Make additional restrictions to who qualifies for MediCare
  • Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    United States of America
    Leader of the Free World

    Behind other nations in education, public transportation, safety, general liberties, and national health.

    Ya know what the call a Leader with no followers?
    Just a man takin a walk.
  • Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 6:31 pm
    I don`t pay anything for healthcare, not even a copay for visits or prescriptions thanks to the VA.
  • Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm
    Tekinette, just because you hear the United States is a pure Capitalist country doesn`t make it true. Our system is full of government, and the way the government is involved is woefully inefficient. Taxes are not low, contrary to popular belief. If you are rich and live in California, you may pay over 60% to the government, unless you have connections.

    Also, the infant mortality rate is incorrect here.

    One part of this graphic is misleading in that it compares data items that might not be equal - like the cost of a procedure in different countries. I can`t believe they would compare the cost in the US to that of India. Would you want that procedure done in India?

    But on top of it all, Obamacare will make this worse. I am actually getting booted off of my old insurance and forced to pay an Obamacare fine just for existing, I think about 2k. It is estimated to cost over a trillion in 10 years, with constant upward revisions.
  • Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 6:49 pm
    However, we should all take a long thought about the entire Western World currently being crushed by the expenditures of its Social Industrial Complex that it can no longer afford. This is universal across nearly every Western country. Decline is already here, in all of the countries. And the grass is not greener in Europe, as is commonly thought.
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6171 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    klaxor-"That`s if you have insurance"

    Incorrect.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 8:07 pm
    In Canada, Germany, Austria and Norway, babies below a certain weight are considered `unsalvageable`, which means they are never considered `alive`. Thus the high mortality rate of underweight babies does not get counted for these countries.
    Incorrect. At least for Canada. Canada defines a live birth as the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of conception, irrespective of the duration of the pregnancy, which, after such separation, breathes or shows any other evidence of life, such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, whether or not the umbilical cord has been cut or the placenta is attached.

    Statistics Canada. 2011. Births 2008, catalogue no. 84F0210X.
  • Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    This is complete bull$#!+. Our lower life expectancy is due to our high infant mortality rate. The reason for that is we try to save very premature infants who would simple be classified as miscarriages discarded as medical waste in any other country.

    The part about cost, though is correct, thanks in large part to the unholy alliance between Democrats and malpractice trial lawyers. In addition to PowerBall jackpot jury awards, people with sprained ankles are getting $2000 MRIs so doctors can cover their asses for the 1:10,000 chance the patient develops a blood clot.

    As to drug prices, what`s the average payout per person for bad reactions in each country?

    The money spent on lobbying can be thought of as "protection" payments to an extortion racket. Do you think it`s THEIR choice?

    As to CEO pay, you get what you pay for.

    Regarding the suggested solutions, why don`t we just appoint a People`s Committee like in the USSR?
  • Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 9:31 pm
    Quick, look at the kitten!

  • Profile photo of TonyGCleff
    TonyGCleff Male 18-29
    179 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 9:41 pm
    I believe every infographic I see because I`m sure the people who are smart enough to understand and fix our problems have enough time to make these.
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6171 posts
    February 21, 2013 at 11:04 pm
    patchgrabber-"Incorrect. At least for Canada."

    Actually, it is correct, even for Canada.

    According to the site: Canada Vital Statistics - Birth Database site as of Sept 27, 2012.

    "There is some inconsistency in the practice of registering these babies (of low birth weight and/or low gestation babies), even though there is a legal requirement to do so."

    In other words, low weight babies are not always counted as `live births` in Canada...even your own health system recognizes that.
  • Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2353 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 12:14 am
    Actually the problem is the insurance industry. Insurance is simply a type of credit. You just start paying into it before you need it. If people paid cash then the true value of treatment would be realized.
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 12:16 am
    Old Ollie, comparing it to the old ussr is old politics, let me guess, you still are worried about the reds or commies to take over yur home and such?

    but no one is asking for appointed ceo`s. i am sure there is a good reason they get 5 million+ in wages. i mean, they are prety hands on, right? and the nurse who is slouching around should be happy with the ill concieved 41K.. makes total sence.


    fact of the matter is that exorbant saleries of ceo`s can never be explained, you as a customer do not benifit from it, they as ceo can ask for it cause it is given.

    unfortunatly, in europe health care is getting more and more expensive too under the guisse of letting market working into the system and right from teh get go, there is no market working, kinda like the usa.

    there is a lot to fix, and being more social about it as an organisation is not a bad thing. stop going for the big buck
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 4:52 am
    Obamacare will do nothing to lower costs, even the CBO now recognizes that it will cost more, 2.16 Trillion dollars more. An estimated 7 million people will now LOSE their existing insurance because of it and the lowest qualifying insurance plan will cost $20,000 a year.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 4:53 am
    OldOllie is correct, Tort Reform and Malpractice Insurance Reform would go a long way toward lowering medical costs.

    Lowering the amount of BS paperwork doctors have to do to get paid by insurers and medicare/aid is another. It`s 2013 and doctors still have to keep paperwork files on all their patients going back a decade or more. Pharmacies computerized their files many many years ago, change the system and let the doctors do the same.

    Another problem stems from hospitals charging hundreds of dollars for every little thing. Those little paper cups they give you pills in are charged as `Medicine Dispense` for an insane $12 each. $200 for a warm blanket, $100 every time a nurse checks your pulse, temp and BP.
  • Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 7:09 am
    @onoffonoffon- but you can`t budget your body. If something happens out of the blue one day and you need medical care and you don`t have the money to cover the cost, you`re sh*t outta luck. That`s why insurance exists in the first place.

    It also aptly outlines the ethics at stake here: we`re being preyed upon for a factor that we both can and can`t control. Sure, you can watch your weight and monitor what you breathe and eat and so on and so forth...but even so, you could still be hit by a car or struck with a genetic disorder or..well, anything.

    The capitalist system looks at that and says "Yes! A good way to squeeze money out of someone!"
  • Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 8:07 am
    Thanks to Obamacare, my insurance went up %62 in 2010 and another %32 in 2011. Last year it didn`t go up at all and the way they talked about it you`d think they wanted us to do damn cartwheels! Sorry, morons, damage already long since done.
  • Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 10:32 am
    Your insurance didn`t go up this year because "Obamacare"hasn`t taken effect yet. Just your insurance company screwing you. Enjoy!
  • Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 11:48 am
    Spain is going down again, badly.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    Squrlz, is this from the Time Magazine cover story this week?
  • Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    @FoolsPrussia: Yes, it is. It`s about as mainstream and conservative a piece as you could publish while still covering the topic. Yet here on IAB, the regular right-wingers seem to view any criticism of the status quo as tantamount to communism. ~sigh~
  • Profile photo of VicAginal
    VicAginal Male 30-39
    22 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 7:22 pm
    Perhaps if we didn`t have such socialized medical care (medicare, medicaid, obamacare) the hospitals wouldn`t feel that they can charge whatever the hell they want.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 22, 2013 at 8:33 pm
    criticism of the status quo as tantamount to communism

    Way off the mark, if anything it`s the solutions that can be remotely construed as "tantamount to communism". Rather the left routinely ignores the negative impacts unnecessary govt regulations have on healthcare affordability. These proposed "solutions" will simply compound the problem.
  • Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 12:17 am

    @Cajun247: You know what you did there, right? You declared my observation that right-wingers quickly cry "Communism!" whenever the U.S. health care system is criticized is "way off the mark"--and then you went on, in the same sentence, to compare this graphic`s proposals to communism. Okay then.

    Also, you make mention of "unnecessary government regulations" that the left "routinely ignores." Interesting. Sounds like you have at least a dozen of them that you can name off the top of your head. Can you share a few? For example, what are these unnecessary government regulations that make an appendectomy is the U.S. cost more than four times what it costs in France?
  • Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 2:00 am
    One should not benefit from others misfortunes. People who are sick will give out every penny they and their love ones have to get well. Fully privatized health care is simply immoral and using insurance agencies makes it only worse. You got two entities now that both are trying to make as much money as they can. Put privatized for-profit prisons in the mix and you got a big old mess that squeezes and destroys peoples lives, kick them while they are down for-profit. And some of you think it`s ok to do so. Way to go, under-one-god-nation.
  • Profile photo of kvetcher
    kvetcher Male 50-59
    213 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 4:39 am
    One thing you may have missed. After a recent report that about a thousand people died in an English hospital from, basically, callous neglect,at least there`s no Brits telling you that our National Health Service is the envy of the world.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 7:25 am
    compare this graphic`s proposals to communism

    I said remotely, as in if anyone was willing to go through an exercise in semantics in whether or not it would be "fascism", "communism", or just plain intrusive government nonsense.

    As to the unnecessary regulations:
    -Certificate of need: These regulations are supported by established hospitals in order to shield themselves from competition.
    -State level mandates: Not everyone wants or needs a "Cadillac plan". Barring letting people buy barebones plans, at least lets get rid of mandates for cosmetic procedures. On top of that eliminate bans on selling insurance across state lines.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 7:38 am
    continued from the second point:

    You may say these are what the exchanges are for. Sounds great except when the state sets them up they have some costly strings attached which I wouldn`t mind discussing.
    -Tax credit for employee provided plans: Honestly our tax code practically needs to be wiped clean. Nevertheless our third party payer system encourages hospitals to overcharge. Eliminate this and consumers can brutally punish and crush (financially speaking) insurers who overcharge and/or shirk their responsibilities to the sick/injured.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 8:00 am
    -Malpractice reform: Malpractice law, generally speaking, does promote quality care. But, as OldOllie and Crakr mentioned, in this case far too often it`s a way of lawyers to squeeze money out of patients and doctors alike. Some states have implemented the English rule plus "early offer" laws that either discourage opportunistic litigation or encourages such to be settled quickly respectively.
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6171 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 9:22 am
    CreamK-"Fully privatized health care is simply immoral "

    And how long before `Fully privatized restaurants is simply immoral` then `Fully privatized grocery stores is simply immoral` to `Fully privatized farming is simply immoral`?

    After all, Hunger is a misfortune. People who are hungry will give out every penny they and their loved have to get food.
  • Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    @Cajun: Thanks for providing the information on unnecessary government regulations. When you raised the issue in your first post, I thought you were going to list items where the government was unnecessarily stepping in to protect the patient. Yet your first two bullet points don`t address that at all; rather, you are citing sweetheart legislation that was passed at the behest of the million-dollar health care lobbying industry, the first to boost hospital profits, the second to boost medical insurance company profits.

    So I`m in total agreement with you on this. Both are unnecessary regulations that could and should be abolished by moving to single-payer nationalized healthcare.

    As far as your third and fourth bullet points, in both cases you appear to be suggesting that new government regulations would be helpful rather than identifying existing regulations that are unnecessary.
  • Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 23, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    @MeGrendel: Going out to dine in a restaurant is worlds apart from getting an appendectomy, as you know. So far as your comparison between medical care and eating holds up, I`ll say this: I have no problem whatsoever in the government using some of my tax dollars to pay for food in cases where it`s medically necessary (e.g., for infants and children who are malnourished or at risk of being so).
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