Gun Control In Australia

Submitted by: turdburglar 3 years ago

A look at crime in Australia after the ban.
There are 72 comments:
Male 411
bears repeating

http://tinyurl.com/cta3gqr

This video is a lying puff piece by the gun lobby
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Male 4,286
So what was it in Australia that tipped the scales (or from the other perspective was used to tip the scales)? Was it the Snowtown murders? The only reason I know about that is the movie is on Netflix on demand. It is creeeeepy.
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Male 3,578
two words
ned kelly
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Male 4,286
"This is wrongheadedness. {I like that word!}"

I`ve received wrongheadedness. Terrible terrible experience.
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Male 4,286
"Is that your final answer?"

I really don`t have much feelings about the gun issue. My brother has a couple guns. I shoot with him sometime. That is about it. All whatever you are doing did was raise a red troll flag.
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Male 14,330
[quote]I hope that wasn`t in response to me McGovern. If it is, that is way out there.[/quote]

Is that your final answer?
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Male 37,888

Banning guns won`t get rid of them and everyone knows it.
This is wrongheadedness. {I like that word!}
Here`s more examples of wishing the world worked one way when it does not.

If we don`t teach kids about condoms they won`t have sex.
If we teach creationism in school then evolution is false.
If we outlaw pot it will keep teenagers from smoking it.
If I just ignore Ben Affleck as `DareDevil` then it never happened.
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Male 15,832
[quote]There has never been a perceived "constitutional right" to bear arms in Australia.[/quote]
Sorry, my bad. I forgot you guys are subjects, not citizens.
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Male 4,286
I hope that wasn`t in response to me McGovern. If it is, that is way out there.
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Male 14,330
So now tell what`s killed more people nut jobs with guns or big governments with guns?
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Male 14,330
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Male 4,286
"Thats pretty funny now tell me what they`re pushing for gun control like this with."

I hope you don`t mind me answering this in a different way than you wanted. The gay marriage movement wouldn`t have moved as incredibly fast if anti-gay marriage bigots hadn`t been so vocal and so opposed to it. The NRA and the gun lobbyists pushing fear of the government and well, just plain fear are going to allow the gun law nuts to get their way. When illogical fear is pushed it has a way of backfiring. Yes fear is also being used by the gun law nuts but it is a common fear created by our movies and news - innocent people being shot in a crowd. The kind of fear being pushed on the other side that creates militias and patriot groups does not play well with the masses, it is seen as fringe and dangerous, and will backfire.
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Male 14,330
[quote]But then again fear is a powerful manipulation tool. [/quote]

ROFL!!! Thats pretty funny now tell me what they`re pushing for gun control like this with.
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Male 14,330
A program making law abiding citizens hand over the possesions they worked for gee nothing fishy there what could go wrong.....
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Female 512
OldOllie: "So at best, the Australians gave up their right for nothing."

There has never been a perceived "constitutional right" to bear arms in Australia.
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Male 1
like any major change in a society it takes alot of time. mostly because older generations are resistant to change, and have come accustomed to a certain way of life, and their rights. Look at the movement for equality between the sexes. racial equality. it takes time.

thankfully time does not stop, and change will happen. the oldest generations are thinned out by the newer generations. just look at the rights for homosexuals and legalization of marijuana, you`re getting there slowly, and you will with guns as well:)
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Male 15,832
[quote]That would have been funny if I didn`t know you were serious. The misinformation that comes from you is staggering. You meed to clear out all the lies Glenn Beck planted in your head. It is making you look like a moron. No wonder you are so partisan.[/quote]
This is what passes for a logical argument from the left these days.
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Male 15,832
[quote]While I do admit that the buy back program did little to nothing to decrease crime, it also did little to nothing to increase crime.[/quote]
So at best, the Australians gave up their right for nothing.
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Male 2,160
*150 euro, stupid IAB not recognizing currency symbols.

also as a lesson on making licenses "expensive" as an argument:
i`ve seen 3 accidents at ranges and heard of one shooting. the accidents being stupid crap like shooting the wall because they forgot they had a round chambered or overloading a muzzle loading rifle so the barrel burst. the shooting being a man who killed the range master after a personal dispute and set off to shoot himself.
all of the involved idiots where of what you would call an upper class background.

and do i support a "stricter" law? no. do i wish the test wasn`t something a dullard could pass by waving some folding money or being the teacher`s friend (i´ve seen a teacher literally fill out the test for some silly woman who somehow didn`t know some of the answers.) ? yes. education is key. not bans or control.
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Male 2,160
guns are quite a bit more common in germany than you would expect. i own 4 myself and shooting is a major sport that might not be as openly discussed here as football/soccer, but it is very much present.
also getting the license here is rather easy, it involves money, about 150€ roughly, and a few weekend courses followed by a multiple choice test that, i do not joke, could be passed by someone who has played an FPS and paid 3 seconds of attention to safe storage laws (required class of cabinet and that guns dating before 1870 design wise can be openly displayed within a home).

next time you wish to cite my country for your arguments, do some research first.
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Male 2,988
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

enough said
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Male 1,497
How many Americans here cried a little tear when the guns were destroyed?
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Male 4,431
Here`s what I know, and no one, at all, period, can dispute this. Australia, Japan, Germany and UK all have significantly lower gun deaths per year per capita than we do. If we don`t give a poo about that, fine. If we think that some safety measures, some oversight, some reasonable controls might help (like, say, we do with cars, cigarettes, etc.), then, hey, good for us for not being idiots. You can ignore facts all you want, and even lie about them, but it doesn`t make them any different than what they are.
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Male 13
Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have been in decline for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.[25] According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, "...the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996". There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Also, "The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation)."
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Male 159
If you can`t spot a bought and paid for by the NRA bullpoo crock of lies then you need your head examining.

Check out phys.org on NRA abusing stats
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Male 2,711
<sarc>well, that wasn`t biased at all, was it? </sarc>
or at all accurate, for that matter.
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Male 1,053
"Kain1 - Don`t be so arrogant, of course I undestand stats.
It`s simple: If the average arrogant european becomes 2x as arrogant over 2 years...that`s a 200% increase of european arrogance. "

LOL - 2 times anything is a 100% increase...
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Male 2,855
what they dont they you crime was doubling without the gun ban
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Male 4,286
"blah blah blah rhetoric rhetoric think about the children the sky is falling the government is coming. next."

The funniest thing is it is a just a big ploy by the gun lobbyists and the NRA to sell more guns. They did this during Clinton and now with a black president they really get to freak people out. It`s funny how people just buy into it. But then again fear is a powerful manipulation tool.
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Male 4,286
"LOL! Next you`ll be telling me that the National Socialists weren`t socialists."

That would have been funny if I didn`t know you were serious. The misinformation that comes from you is staggering. You meed to clear out all the lies Glenn Beck planted in your head. It is making you look like a moron. No wonder you are so partisan.
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Male 409
And now for the reality... Australia has seen an 80% reduction in gun crime since ban and mandatory buy-back when into effect. They have had fewer suicides and no `mass killings` on the scale we see in the USA almost monthly.
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Male 75
Seems about right..The Gov`t can`t stop drugs from coming into the county..How are they going to stop guns.
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Male 1,950
blah blah blah rhetoric rhetoric think about the children the sky is falling the government is coming. next.
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Male 3
I know this has been mentioned already, but I`d like to add my confirmation that this video is oooooooold. And the barest easiest factchecking will prove that this is a cobbled together piece of crap. For example, Trevor Griffin was the Attorney General of SOUTH AUSTRALIA (not the whole freaking country) from 1979 to 1982, more than ten years before the gun buy-back scheme he`s supposedly talking about. One example...
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Male 116
Madduck, thats a great argument for gun control and universal healthcare Ive never heard before. You got a point. I do think the healthcare side of the debate is far more complicated than that though. I not informed about the gun control side of things, since its not on my radar; in my country this is not an issue. Whoever wants a gun can get one for hunting, nobody else cares, gun crime is relatively low here in Greece.

But about health care, in the two countries I lived in with supposed universal coverage (which I support), the goverment just used the health insurance premiums of the nation for `other purposes` or they are lost to corruption and mismanagement. So, I pay for the coverage, but dont actually get the coverage. I have to get a private coverage too. But the cost of the non-functioning coverage is a massive drain on the economy and my budget. The media and political arena is so dominted by vested interests and oligarchs that youd neve know if we like it or not.
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Male 80
When people point guns at each other the bad guy doesn`t get blasted away. Everyone dies. The end. Don`t you people watch Tarantino movies??
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Male 5,811
ForSquirel: "It`s not meaningless though. The mere cause and effect is more than enough proof.

I didn`t see cause and effect there, as they didn`t provide a rate or a time frame so you can account for population growth and outliers.

turdburglar: "Patchgrabber - weak. Of all the people on IAB, I didn`t think YOU would ignore stats. You use them all the time. If numbers where already low, then why the ban?"

It`s a stretch to call those stats. My point is that they didn`t even source their stats, so:
a)They could be made up
b)If they aren`t, they could just be cherry-picking, since they didn`t say that rise was for all of Australia.

But if you`d like to learn more about how statistics can be misleading, check out the snopes page on the gun ban.
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Male 44
@baradhili I totally agree. Not to mention the video is terribly outdated, from about 1996. Since then, a steady increase in gun crimes up to 1996 turned into a steady decline (from about 1998) in gun-related violence and death. Easy to find the true figures on a whole range of crimes from the Institute of Criminology website http://www.aic.gov.au. But, instead of true and accurate statistics, we get an episode of A Current Affair or some other crap from 1996, awesome.

Simple comparison of gun laws Aus vs. US... I know where most people would feel safer walking down a city street at night. I know I don`t NEED a gun to feel safe in MY neighbourhood.
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Male 164
5Cats - hate to burst your bubble.. crossbows, bow pistols basically _any_ projectile weapon - is banned here except on ranges. You can have them, but you need to prove 1. you are sane, 2. you have a legitimate reason ot have one, 3. you have the means to secure it properly - and the police can inspect your gun safe at any time

The result - so little gun action that its normally the police who are the shooters - even the bikies don`t normally fight with guns. Mass killings (more than 5 in one go) zeroed out once auto and semi-auto weapons were banned totally (its kinda hard to kill lots when someone can have a go at you between loading.

Meanwhile in teh US - multiple murders using semi-auto weapons seems to be a bit like paris hilton - everyone seems to be will to have a go.
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Male 164
WTF? I guess the truth has nothing to do with a good video... The number of armed robberies has dropped to zero - I can`t remember the last time there was one of them here.
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Female 7,833
when argueing the rights and wrongs of gun control, and/healthcare it seems that people who live in countries with strict gun control prefer it that way- they don`t campaign to get the laws relaxed- likewise social healthcare- those who have it are happy and want to keep it. In countries with lax gun control there are a lot of people who want tighter laws and plenty who fear them. If gun control was such a bad thing surely the countries who have tight control would be demanding more guns???
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Female 19
Despite all this delightful banter, the stringent laws on guns here and the difficulty of obtaining both firearms, firearm licence`s and the harsh penalty`s for unregistered firearm possession etc. do keep firearm deaths very low. That said, it doesn`t mean it keeps Australia free from tragedy. No matter what laws are imposed, there will always be those who find a way. Just look at the Hoddle Street Massacre, Port Arthur and the Monash shooting. Though I definitely agree it would be a thousand times worse if our laws were as lax as the U.S.
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Male 2,514
In summary, when we look at Australia`s crime RATES instead of their absolute numbers, little has changed since the buy back program. But part of that could be because less than 1/5th of the guns that were owned by Australians were actually collected.
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Male 2,514
Wow. More misinformation for the people who bask in their ignorance.

While I do admit that the buy back program did little to nothing to decrease crime, it also did little to nothing to increase crime. These "statistics" are highly skewed. When it talks about home invasions being up 21%, armed assault being up 26%, and homicide being up 19%, they bender take into consideration that Australia`s population is up 27% since the buy back program. The percentages they offer are based on absolute numbers that do not take into account population growth. Of course if a population grows by 25%, their crime will also raise by 25%. That`s quite logical. But if the population grown by 27% and the murder rate only grows by 19%, then that means that the murder rate has actually dropped.

Also, the armed robbery boost seems to only look at the absolute worst years (during the economic recession around 2000) compared to the absolute best years.
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Male 15,832
[quote]What???? Fascism is pretty much the exact opposite of liberalism. [/quote]
LOL! Next you`ll be telling me that the National Socialists weren`t socialists. That fact is, American "progressives" all thought Mussolini was the cat`s meow till WW II broke out. The walls of Rockefeller Center even featured his likeness in bas relief. The close connections between European fascists and American progressives have pretty well been scrubbed from the history taught in public schools, but they can`t erase the facts.

Before you go on to make an even bigger fool of yourself, check this out.

http://tinyurl.com/a6m3hej
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Male 2
Well, here are the "gun controll"-sides numbers, and from what google tells me, they`re pretty accurate.

Image is from this page
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Male 5
OMG Sonofd you are right! since the ban a staggering 2 people have been killed in mass shooting in Australia, that`s almost 1 in 10 million people killed in mass shootings
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Male 4,286
I should consider the source. You are a product of Glenn Beck`s revisionist "history" lessons. Please forget I even responded to you.
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Male 4,286
"You started out as "fascists" till that name fell out of favor"

What???? Fascism is pretty much the exact opposite of liberalism. I can understand the socialism and communist insults from the right. I mean, that`s fun - associating liberals to those extremes. I would probably do it if I was a partisan conservative. But you really show that have you have no idea what you are talking about when you call liberals fascists.
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Male 15,832
[quote]I wonder how many more years it will be till people with right wing views figure out calling someone with left wing views "liberal" is not an insult, but rather a compliment?[/quote]
If that`s true, why do you guys keep changing your name? You started out as "fascists" till that name fell out of favor, then you became "progressives" till they disgraced themselves, then you became "liberals." Now that "liberal" is becoming a synonym for failure, you want to be called "progressives" again, hoping people won`t remember the history of progressivism.

It`s not that we are using "liberal" as an insult so much as liberals always manage to turn whatever name they choose to call themselves into an insult. You can call yourselves whatever you like, but it will always become an insult, because your ideas always fail.
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Male 69
RE: gigs1890

You`re either lying or completely unaware of what`s going on in your country. A quick search of Wikipedia proves you wrong. Link
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Male 32
since the gun laws, that is
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Male 32
Unconcerned australian here. Number of mass shootings (at malls, at schools, etc and so forth): 0. none. nothing.
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Female 512
This video is just blatantly wrong & misleading. I started to write a big long-winded discussion as to why but this and this actually explain it quite well. Hate to burst the NRA`s bubble but Aussie criminals simply AREN`T going round breaking into little old ladies` houses & threatening to shoot them with illegal firearms. Gun advocates are also the minority over here...if you asked the general population about gun control, I think most people would say they`re pleased these weapons are no longer easily available.
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Male 339
I wonder how many more years it will be till people with right wing views figure out calling someone with left wing views "liberal" is not an insult, but rather a compliment?
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Male 15,832
[quote]A video by NRAIS1. That doesn`t sound biased.[/quote]
Typical liberal. When faced with irrefutable facts, slander the messenger.
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Male 4,893

Kain1 - Don`t be so arrogant, of course I undestand stats.
It`s simple: If the average arrogant european becomes 2x as arrogant over 2 years...that`s a 200% increase of european arrogance.
So where`s you`re evidence to say THIS statistical variation is coincidence? How have you decided that 69% is not enough. Australia is kinda large, so 69% is a large increase. It`s a simple post that shows 1 point of view. No one post will ever show all the data there is, but to just say it doesn`t count because it doesn`t backup your point of view is arrogant.
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Male 459
Yeah, this video is biased bullpoo. to be fair, the last few years has seen an increase in gun violence, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne, due to an ongoing Bikie `war`, although the victims are mostly limited to the MC`s involved, not the general public. One might argue that the murder rate was already on the decline before the buyback scheme, and that the new laws did nothing to actually decrease the firearms murder rate, But according to most of the figures I`ve seen, the laws have NEVER increased the number of firearm deaths. Fortunately for the pro-gun side, it`s hard to actually prove the effectiveness of these laws, you can`t count the number of murders that MIGHT have happened or were prevented because someone couldn`t easily get their hands on a gun. But at the end of the day, even a 100% increase in gun deaths here would still translate to THOUSANDS LESS victims than the US per year.
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Male 1,471
@turdburglar: I don`t think you understand statistics.

If you have, say 10 instances of that type of crime in a one month period, and then the next month there are 17. That`s a 70% increase. But that increase could still lie well within the expected statistical variance over a longer period of time, say, years. That change could very well be coincidental and meaningless. That`s why a number like "69%" is not enough.
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Male 4,286
A video by NRAIS1. That doesn`t sound biased.
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Male 2,841
How do you fight the kangaroos without guns?
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Male 36,403
I know for a fact that:
#1 Canada`s "Long Rifle Registration" cost countless billions and did absolutely nothing.
#2 Australia`s "gun murder" rates have NOT fallen since the "gun ban".

At least Canada`s government stopped enforcing that idiotic law. Australians will NEVER get their guns back.

And as they said: next they`re coming for the rest of the guns. Sooner or later, ONLY criminals will be armed.

Crossbows? Bow & Arrow? Knives? ALL will be "restricted". Criminals will run amuk!

Meanwhile, in Virginia USA: Gun ownership (legal) has risen sharply in the past 10 years. And ALL crimes, including "gun crimes" have fallen.
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Male 37,888

I can`t speak to this.
I`d rather we all just shut up and let the Ausies IABers tell us if this was accurate or not.
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Male 4,893

The big difference between Australia and the US as I see it would be:

1)In USA there are almost no records on who bought guns, how many, and where they are. If govt ever showed up at my door asking for my guns, I can just say "I sold them at a garage sale to some guy I never met" which is perfectly legal.
2)There are WAY MORE guns in the USA, which would make it nearly impossible to get them all.

I realize that at the moment people are screaming for gun control, and not complete removal. This just shows that complete removal is the next step after control, and that it`s not beyond reason to think a government would try such an approach.
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Male 425
Ha. A police run state. Ha ha. So Funny. It takes them 5-10 minutes to get to you after you call them. IF YOU GET THE CHANCE TO CALL THEM.

I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY RIGHT OF SELF PRESERVATION.

CRIMINALS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS.

DO NOT BE FOOLED.

YOU CAN HAVE MY GUNS WHEN YOU PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS
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Male 4,893

I posted this awhile ago, so my memory is a bit foggy. I believe this was a few years after the ban. It`s defiantly not a brand new report. I think the point still remains. At the time I looked up some more current stats, but I won`t try to give numbers from memory.
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Male 4,893

Patchgrabber - weak. Of all the people on IAB, I didn`t think YOU would ignore stats. You use them all the time. If numbers where already low, then why the ban? Either way these particular numbers show the ban was a bad idea. I realize somebody else can dig up numbers which support you`re POV. Will you say numbers are meaningless then?
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Male 3,445
Also, this video looks a little old. I`d like to know when it was produced. You can`t really look at immediate, year to year, crime statistics and get an accurate understanding.
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Male 3,445
Here is a rebuttal to these statistics.

Before you criticize the source, you may want to read what he says at the bottom of the page:

"Full Disclosure: I am a gun owner, and an owner of a real assault weapon that comes complete with bayonet. I do not want my guns banned or regulated to the point that I can’t use them. However, it bothers me greatly that inventing reasons out of thin air to justify why we must protect our right to bear arms is also wrong. I tolerate bending facts well but BOGUS is bogus."
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Male 2,390
It`s not meaningless though. The mere cause and effect is more than enough proof. If the disarmament of a society results in any marked and measurable increase in criminal activities then that should say something.
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Male 5,811
Lame. Percentages provide no context. If the number is already low, or over a small time frame, a 69% increase is meaningless.
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Male 4,893
Link: Gun Control In Australia [Rate Link] - A look at crime in Australia after the ban.
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