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Date: 02/24/13 04:36 PM

41 Responses to Bill Moyers: When We Kill Without Caring

  1. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 4:39 pm
    Link: Bill Moyers: When We Kill Without Caring - Moyers illustrates the danger we bring upon ourselves with drone strikes
  2. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 4:45 pm
    What`s the difference between a soldier who is trained to kill, heartlessly and a drone that is programmed to kill, heartlessly? Only difference I can see is that you aren`t putting a soldier`s life at risk.
  3. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:01 pm
    The drone strike policy is definitely f`ed up..
  4. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:01 pm
    @patchouly: Did you watch the video? He describes a situation in which a tribal leader stands up to Al Qaeda and is then killed in an American drone strike. That only helps Al Qaeda and other militant groups.
  5. Profile photo of BLiTZxxKRiEG
    BLiTZxxKRiEG Male 18-29
    10 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm
    drones don`t get PTSD
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36838 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Sure, we should make war much more personal.
    Let`s go back to men in planes carpet bombing cities
    like we did to Germany & Japan. We were hero`s back then.
    This would solve the prolem of the Al Quida sympathy
    rising in that town he mentioned. Take out the town!

    Oh, you don`t like war "old school style". Then get
    used to drones.
  7. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:09 pm
    "What`s the difference between a soldier who is trained to kill, heartlessly and a drone that is programmed to kill, heartlessly? Only difference I can see is that you aren`t putting a soldier`s life at risk."

    The difference is what we become when war has no risk.
  8. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    I get exactly what patchouly is getting at. I don`t think it matters if it was a soldier or a drone. The issue appears to be the policy. Govt. seems to have adopted the idea that they can do whatever they want, and keep it secret as long as they are using drones. However...if the rules are the same, I see no difference between being killed by a manned or unmanned aircraft.
  9. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm
    The use of drones for this purpose is one of the areas I greatly disagree with President Obama. I`m really disappointed that he hasn`t pushed back harder against the military leaders in this instance. For every enemy we kill with a drone we create hundreds and thousands of more enemies through the negativity of the action.

    What`s funny are the people that blame President Obama completely for these strikes but gave him no credit for killing Bin Ladin. That is quite a feat to be so involved with the drones but at the same time have nothing to do with the Seal Team 6 mission.
  10. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36838 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Where did we get this pussy mentality that war should not have casualties.

  11. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    "I don`t think it matters if it was a soldier or a drone. The issue appears to be the policy. Govt. seems to have adopted the idea that they can do whatever they want, and keep it secret as long as they are using drones."

    I agree, actually. The only difference, though, is that a soldier might have an easier time assessing a situation on the ground and knowing when not to fire. It`s harder to do that from 5000 feet.
  12. Profile photo of kittilia
    kittilia Female 18-29
    500 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 5:30 pm
    People are still guiding these drones. They don`t kill autonomously. In fact, instead of one person flying a plane, looking down at the ground, there is a group of people monitoring and discussing video feeds of high resolution, and coming up with the best plan of action. I don`t believe this will increase the "collateral damage" at all. People are just scared of the unfamiliar.
  13. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36838 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    They said the same thing when Arrows were invented.
    "You couldn`t see your enemies eyes" Killing from
    a distance was considered to have no honor.
    The same thing when the gun was invented and canons.
    Then when the plane was invented and you never saw
    your enemy.
    Then the A bomb.

    Now drones. Same arguement, but the progress of
    war moves on.
  14. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3286 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 8:00 pm
    So...err...what does moving the pilot from safety into the roosterpit seat do exactly? Sounds like lip service.
  15. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 8:11 pm
    We`re caring about the people we`re killing? Is that a thing now? Did Humans EVER care about the folks they`ve killed? When Vikings looked `em in the eye and hacked `em to bits with a great sword or battle ax, did they ever think, "I feel a connection here, gosh, I really like this guy, his blood spattering and bits flying every which way is just so considerate and amiable."
    I don`t think so.
    Still, the drone program is something I wish we hadn`t developed or implemented.
  16. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 8:14 pm
    You know what I like about you Gerry? I don`t always know what side you are going to be on. That is how life should be.
  17. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 9:22 pm
    Some Drone "pilots" have severe PTSD. It stems from the fact that they are not threatened in any way. I personally can`t brush aside innocent casualties as the cost of war because then the argument is no different than the terrorists. The fact of the matter is that drone warfare is doing way more damage than solving a problem. It`s like doing brain surgery with a chainsaw.
  18. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 9:23 pm
    I`ll give him credit for at least having a modicum of intellectually honesty. Most liberals would only be outraged if Bush were doing this.
  19. Profile photo of SnapsForMe
    SnapsForMe Female 18-29
    217 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 9:26 pm
    Markust, I`ve been coming to IAB for years, mostly as a lurker. I almost never comment because most of the time, I don`t think anyone cares what I have to say anyway. Each post I get so excited as I scroll down to the comments trying to guess what Gerry will have said. If he hasn`t commented yet, normally I check the post again. I don`t always agree with him, but I always enjoy his point of view. In retrospect, I guess it`s kind of creepy. But, whatever, I know everyone else does it too
  20. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 9:39 pm
    I`m really disappointed that he hasn`t pushed back harder against the military leaders in this instance.
    Pushed back? Seriously? Hell, Obama insists on picking the targets personally! He LOVES drones because there`s no risk to HIM from these remote control executions.

    The fact is, Obama is a sniveling little coward. He won`t take the risk to send in troops to capture these terrorists, and he wouldn`t know what to do with them if he did.

    Bush water-boarded 3 al Qaeda leaders, and that makes him a war criminal. Obama just blows them all to hell with drones along with thousands of innocent bystanders, including women and children, and not a single f*** is given by the vast majority of the left-wing hypocrites.
  21. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2382 posts
    February 24, 2013 at 11:17 pm
    What are the odds of a government not being interested in the views of it`s citizens?
  22. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 7:48 am
    "Bush water-boarded 3 al Qaeda leaders, and that makes him a war criminal. Obama just blows them all to hell with drones along with thousands of innocent bystanders, including women and children, and not a single f*** is given by the vast majority of the left-wing hypocrites."

    Actually, Bush launched an illegal war based on lies and manipulated intelligence. That`s what makes him a war criminal in my eyes.

    I`m a liberal who opposes Obama`s drone program. There are many, many others.
  23. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 7:51 am
    "We`re caring about the people we`re killing? Is that a thing now? Did Humans EVER care about the folks they`ve killed? "

    The word "caring" here implies that we need to care about the reaction our killing triggers. That`s smart policy.
  24. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 8:40 am
    SnapsForMe, I think you greatly underestimate yourself.
  25. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 8:53 am
    There were 36 drone attacks in Pakistan in 2008 (under the last president), 54 in 2009 (under the current president). The military got this program going during another administration. Unless you live in a fantasy world where congress moves at lightning speed this is not a partisan issue.

    Source
  26. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 10:27 am
    The fact is, Obama is a sniveling little coward.
    "The fact is, is a sniveling little coward."

    He won`t take the risk to send in troops to capture these terrorists, and he wouldn`t know what to do with them if he did.
    Three words: Osama Bin Laden.
  27. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 4:26 pm
    "Three words: Osama Bin Laden."

    ELBOW FROM THE SKY! BOOM! Time to throw in the towel on that one, Ollie. =^.^=

  28. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 8:31 pm
    He won`t take the risk to send in troops to capture these terrorists, and he wouldn`t know what to do with them if he did.

    Three words: Osama Bin Laden.
    So, where is Osama being held and interrogated now? Oh, yeah, that`s right... Besides, if I recall, Obama condemned the very interrogation techniques that eventually led us to bin Laden. Had it been up to him, we would never have gotten the intelligence that led us to him, and when it WAS up to him, we weren`t able to capture him.

    I guess in retrospect, though, with Obama in charge, it was better to kill bin Laden than bring him to New York City for a circus trial complete with a team of ACLU lawyers and an OJ jury.
  29. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 8:38 pm
    ELBOW FROM THE SKY! BOOM! Time to throw in the towel on that one, Ollie. =^.^=
    @S4S. I guess that one didn`t work out the way you planned, did it?

  30. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 10:04 pm
    I know you like nuts Squrlz but that is one nut that is just best left alone.
  31. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 25, 2013 at 11:37 pm
    I know you like nuts Squrlz but that is one nut that is just best left alone.
    markust, for someone who`s been owned as many times as you have, you`re in no position to be giving advice on the subject.
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 6:31 am
    Oh we should`ve been using....

  33. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 8:58 am
    "MarkusT, for someone who`s been owned as many times as you have, you`re in no position to be giving advice on the subject."

    Saying that you have owned someone pretty much proves the opposite. Take your post below (with the wrestling picture). You just ended up looking like a jackass. Trolls like you hardly ever own people they usually just end up looking like bigger trolls.
  34. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 10:31 am
    Trolls like you hardly ever own people they usually just end up looking like bigger trolls.
    markust, in yet another glaring example of your chronic intellectual dishonesty, you COMPLETELY ignored my refutation of chacklet`s citation of bin Laden as an example of a CAPTURED terrorist.

    In 4 years Obama hasn`t captured a single al Qaeda or Taliban leader, because he doesn`t know what to do with them if he did. He simply orders them killed, (along with anyone standing within 100` of them) so consequently we are getting absolutely NO intelligence from them.

    That`s how terrorists were able to plan a massive coordinated attack in Benghazi. Obama was caught completely flatfooted. He had no idea this was even possible, and he had no idea how to respond. That`s why he went and hid under his bed while 4 Americans were slaughtered. Then he sent his minions out to lie about it being caused by a stupid YouTube video.

    Meanwhile, you defend him.
  35. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 10:50 am
    Come on OldOllie. Your whole tactic when responding to my original comment where I actually mentioned Bin Ladin was designed for people to bring up Bin Ladin. I could tell exactly what you were doing. That is why I did not bite. You are a troll extraordinaire but you are still just a troll.
  36. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 11:52 am
    We need to send in team bear....

    and rain down the care on these mofudgeaz!!
  37. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    @OldOllie: Ollie, declaring "I WIN!" after you`ve had all your teeth knocked out doesn`t make you a winner. It just means you`re out of touch with reality.

    Chalket`s three word response of "Osama Bin Laden," after you were going off in conservative la-la land about Obama being a "sniveling coward" who "won`t take the risk to send in troops to capture terrorists," was a knockout blow. I`m pretty sure it was recognized as such by virtually everyone following this thread except you.
  38. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    February 26, 2013 at 10:03 pm
    @S4S, so where is Obama holding bin Laden? What kind of intelligence have we gotten from him?

    The fact is, the Seals could have captured him and would have had that been their orders. Obama ordered him killed because he doesn`t have the stomach to fight this war to win it.
  39. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 27, 2013 at 6:30 am

    @OldOllie: Ollie, we actually have some views in common on this issue.
    (1) I disapprove of Obama`s use of drone strikes.
    (2) I`d have preferred that OBL were taken alive (though probably for reasons different from yours).

    Where I think you`re dead wrong, however, is in your charge that Obama is somehow lacking the courage necessary to fight terrorism. Obama`s decision to send in a SEAL team to get OBL was gutsy. Had that mission failed--if for example, the entire compound had been booby-trapped, the SEALs had all died, and OBL had escaped--Obama would have thrown away any chance at a second term. Any president who wanted to play it safe would`ve used a cruise missile or JDAM strike for that mission.

    There are numerous things I dislike about Obama, Ollie. But I`m not so partisan that I can`t acknowledge that he had balls of brass when it came to taking out OBL.

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