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Date: 02/14/13 04:32 PM

54 Responses to America`s Use Of Drones: What You Ought To Know

  1. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 4:38 pm
    Link: America`s Use Of Drones: What You Ought To Know - Some basic information you are unlikely to receive through the mainstream U.S. media.
  2. Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 4:54 pm
    was that it??

    the govt is keeping a secret,

    OH GOD SAY IT AIN`T SO
  3. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 4:57 pm
    Nice post squirlzy,i allways tought about that.
  4. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Nothing Earth-shattering here, admittedly, but I thought it covered a few facts that I think most Americans are unaware of, viz:
    (1) The U.S. gov`t has spent over $26B of taxpayer money on the drone programs, but is refusing to tell its own citizens what oversight of the program exists, who determines who the targets are, or even if the CIA is involved.
    (2) The United Nations considers our use of drones a violation of international law.
    (3) Our use of drones is making foreigners who might be indifferent or even friendly to the U.S. hate us like there`s no tomorrow. I mean, think of it: How would *you* react if a foreign power was flying robots over your head in American skies and killing fellow countrymen, occasionally killing innocents by mistake or as part of the calculated "collateral damage"?
  5. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    Squrlz4Sale wow you have some guts on sayng that here...be ready for the sh*t storm is coming over you by the IAB pistoleros. Wellcome to the club of "rebels" my friend. ;-)
  6. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    @Piperfawn: LOL. I can take it. =^.^=
  7. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    I don`t get it. What is wrong with drones? What does it matter if there is a person in the plane or not. Is killing someone somehow better if there is a person physically in the plane or if a missile is sent instead? If the gov`ment is killing people that they shouldn`t that is a separate issue. What piece of the puzzle am I missing?
  8. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:36 pm
    "How would *you* react if a foreign power was flying robots over your head in American skies and killing fellow countrymen..."

    We`d probably scramble a few fighters before they even entered our airspace to greet them. If they don`t like it, they have every right to do the same.
  9. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:41 pm
    @Turdburglar: Your questions are all good ones. I`ve listed my top concerns about our use of drones in an earlier post in this thread. But as to your questions, I think a potential problem with drones is that it may be emboldening our military to kill individuals in situations where we wouldn`t venture previously because now we can do so without risking an American pilot or operative being killed or held hostage. When the missions are easier to undertake, they`re less likely to be carefully vetted and there`s a greater likelihood that they will be overused or that more mistakes will occur at the cost of the lives of innocents. I`d like to think this concern is being addressed with stringent oversights: But since our own government refuses to tell us what criteria and safeguards exist, who`s to say?
  10. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:44 pm
    `Our use of drones is making foreigners who might be indifferent or even friendly to the U.S. hate us like there`s no tomorrow. I mean, think of it: How would *you* react if a foreign power was flying robots over your head in American skies and killing fellow countrymen, occasionally killing innocents by mistake or as part of the calculated "collateral damage"?`

    This basically sums up my feelings about drones.
  11. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:45 pm
    whodat6484 Oh yes cause Burkina Faso for example is well known to have tons of fighters. Anyway drones are the most cowards thing man have created. You want to do war? At least have the guts to be in the battlefield and not in a room with a joypad in your hand while you bombard some place in the world that maybe you don`t even know. Your civil war was fighted on the battlefield by "MEN" not from some nerd kid inside a room while drink some coffee and eat some cheeseburger.
  12. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    Wow! Look at the bomb crater at 1:34! Those things must carry some BIG bombs.

    (Actually, it`s Barringer Crater in AZ. I just thought it was a bit funny because at that point the voice is talking about not knowing where they are flying.)
  13. Profile photo of ajd121
    ajd121 Male 18-29
    625 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:06 pm
    I am all for drones. Keep pumping them out why put American lives at risk when you have the technology not to.
  14. Profile photo of ajd121
    ajd121 Male 18-29
    625 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:16 pm
    "I mean, think of it: How would *you* react if a foreign power was flying robots over your head in American skies and killing fellow countrymen, occasionally killing innocents by mistake or as part of the calculated "collateral damage"?` "

    Foreigners flying machines and killing American citizens, didn`t that already happen on 9/11? And aren`t attacks like 9/11 the type of things that the are trying to prevent with the drones?
  15. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    I`d like to point out that Senator Feinstein, Democrat, is ALL FOR dropping drones on folks. However, she wants to grab all your guns!
    Coincidence? I think not.
    Dianne Feinstein
    I kid you not! She`s recently quoted defending Obama`s drone policies by saying "less than 10 civilians were killed last year". In fact the UN says the number is closer to 800.
    Nice try Dianne! Grab lawful guns, but drop BOMBS on US CITIZENS without "due process"?

    That`s called hypocircy, and it`s what Obama is all about.

    PS: When Bush used drones? The MSM was aghast! Obama does it? Silence. THAT is the real story here.

    ALL governments everywhere do "secret stuff" but for the MSM to have such a blatent double standard? THAT is a crime.
  16. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    ajd121 i don`t think so
  17. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:24 pm
    @Ajd121: I had to smile when I read your post because it`s a clever riposte.

    My concern is that is that in using a program that`s as hated as our drones, for every one terrorist we eliminate, two may rise to take his place.
  18. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:25 pm
    [quote">Anyway drones are the most cowards thing man have created.[/quote">
    @piperfawn: No, that would be the PLO and all the terror bombings, rockets and mortars they`ve used against:
    Israel
    3rd Party Countries
    Civilians across the globe.

    Remeber the Munich Olympics? that was the PLO, and hundreds of other attacks on non-combatants from neutral countries too.

    THAT is OK with YOU? But drone attacks are taboo? ffs... At least the drones have USA Army markings...
  19. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    I was wondering when 5Cats would arrive to stir things up a bit. =^.^=
  20. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:38 pm
    5Cats lol 5Cats this is not the right post. Do to me this question on a next post about Israel Palestine discussion please. Anyway you are against drones only cause is a good occasion to go against Obama or you have other reasons?
  21. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:40 pm
    and for your info there is also a second post about this topic forward in the front page. Let`s decide where to discuss it.
  22. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:46 pm
    5Cats a little anticipation on my future answer to your question...also Israel use rokets and mortars,usualy they like to use also white phosphorus (banned from international comunity) on civilians.
  23. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:50 pm
    I was wondering when 5Cats would arrive to stir things up a bit. =^.^=
    @Squirlz: Somehow (idk how!) I managed to resist... for a while!

    I`m opposed to drones dropping on US citizens because that`s a 100% clear violation of the US Constitution, which I think is the best in the world. WAAAAY better than Canada`s stoopid "Constitution" I`ll tell you that!

    Like @WhoDat says: If other countries don`t like drones dropping on their citizens? OBJECT! The USA isn`t dropping them where they aren`t welcomed.

    I`ll save part 2 until tomorrow. I thought this (part 1) -barely- scratched the surface, so I`m glad there`s more to it.

    One doesn`t NEED TO invent crazy conspiracy theories, the real ones are frightening enough!
  24. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:56 pm
    "Somehow (idk how!) I managed to resist... for a while!"
    But then he see my post and blood boiled in his veins ;-)
  25. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 6:57 pm
    And my "Felix the cat" is more handsome than your avatar 5Cats gne gne gne!
  26. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 7:15 pm
    @piperfawn - " You want to do war? At least have the guts to be in the battlefield..."

    Been there, done that. 5 times for a grand total of almost 3 years. We were the ones who landed and secured an airstrip near Khandahar so C-130`s full of more grunts, armor, supplies/equipment, etc could come join the party.
  27. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 7:25 pm
    whodat6484 i know you was, mine "you" was a general "you",sorry for the misunderstood.
  28. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 7:31 pm
    Yeah, I`m afraid I still don`t see a problem here.

    Collateral damage is a separate issue, same as we had before "smart bombs" got better.

    "They`re looking at me while I peeee!!!!". Only difference is now it`s a drone instead of a high altitude recon plane.

    Flying into foreign airspace that we`re not at war with and without permission ... well there I`d have to agree. For that purpose, drones should be treated just like manned aircraft - you don`t fly over foreign soil without letting them know.

    I really thought this vid was going to be about "OMG THERZ DRONZ OVR MERIKA!!!" ... to which I was going to post that it`d be no different than police cruisers on patrol ... just a lot better views and a lot fewer doughnuts. *rimshot*
  29. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 7:51 pm
    @Runemang: "They`re looking at me while I peeee!"
    That sounds like The IAB Dream Thread! LMFAO!
    I`m liking your style!

    @WhoDat: When I read stuff like that on the internets? I`m 99% sure it`s bullcrap. HOWEVER you`re that other 1%. For reasons unknown I don`t doubt your story at all. That`s a compliment, in case you weren`t sure if I`m being sarky or whatnot. Cheers!

    @piperfawn: You want "cute?" Ok, Felix is one of the best cats ever, I agree!
    Kitty Kitty Fancia is in a class all her own! My gift to you! (this linky)

    My avatar is just "a cat" and was animated but that didn`t work on IAB. It was a gift from an internet
  30. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    ...internet FRIEND! Only 830! WTF IAB!!
    *gasp*
    *gasp*

    "Maker`s Mark"
    "Unibrone Beer"

    STAT!
  31. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    Squrlz..thanks for the response. I still don`t get the big deal about DRONES. I think they are pretty awesome. If the complaint/controversy is all about the secrecy, collateral damage, legality of who and when a person is killed...that is a separate issue from the use of drones. Isn`t it? Live humans can do the same things. The drones take their command from humans.
    It seems like peeps are saying the drones are bad/immoral/illegal. They should be saying the decisions and actions being made are bad/illegal/immoral.
    Oh well. Maybe it`s just me.
  32. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:04 pm
    @turdy: It`s the same as the "anti-nuclear activists" who somehow believed that being killed by a "nuclear bomb" was WORSE than a regular bomb. Or a fire-bomb. Or naplam.
    DEAD IS DEAD!
    More people died from "regular" methods than nuclear bombs, PERIOD!
    And proclaiming that a "drone" is somehow worse than a "sniper bullet" is equally stupid!
    Of course, the drone MIGHT kill bystanders too.
    But WHAT are those "innocent civilians" DOING right next to a military target?
    "Human Shields" rings a bell? Yes?
    So: the USA is NOT responsible for the use of human shileds by the cowardly enemy. Period.

    NEXT!
  33. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:09 pm
    Rwanda: 800,000+ killed by machettes (50%) and small arms fire (50%).
    How many people have ever been killed by "nuclear bombs"? LESS than that! Under 400K!

    So what`s "more dangerous" in this world? Nukes? Guns? Machettes? Starvation?

    Only IDIOTS would drag the debate down to the level of "what KIND of weapon is used". Those idiots are commonly known as "liberals"...

    "Conservatives" think the PEOPLE who use the weapons are MORE responsible than the weapons themselves...
    Think about it...
  34. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:31 pm
    @Turdburglar: I`m happy to discuss the issue because it`s by no means an open-and-shut case either way. I do think it`s important to discuss the American U.S. of drones on an American website such as this because most Americans *aren`t* discussing it--yet internationally, it may well be the single-most hated aspect of American policy. So there`s a bit of a disconnect going on, I think. And as this two-part video makes clear, all of the issues surrounding drones won`t be going away anytime soon.
  35. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:36 pm
    @5Cats: Ay yi yi yi. You tend to paint with a broad brush, my feline friend, especially when it comes to the word *liberal* (an appellation I`m proud to own).

    A chief difference between drones and other weapons is that we`re using drones in the skies of countries we`re not at war with to kill people who in many instances haven`t taken any hostile action against the U.S. military and who haven`t been tried or convicted of anything by any court anywhere. I find that troubling, don`t you?

    It`s worlds apart from using a howitzer, say, on a military battlefield to kill enemy soldiers.
  36. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Squrilz - I think the other video made a bit more sense. If some of the accusations and theory`s are correct, I would agree that we have a big problem. I would feel the same way if manned aircraft where in place of the drones. I think the media overemphasizes the fact they are drones, which distracts from the real questions. Good post.
  37. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 9:55 pm
    @5Cats - Yeah, I know what you mean. That`s why I normally don`t talk about that kind of sh*t much. Well... I should say, I don`t get too specific about that kind of sh*t, only bringing it up if I`m trying to make a point. I`ve probably talked to thousands of people online as well as in person and I`ve noticed that the people who talk the most are the ones that are usually full of sh*t. I don`t mind answering questions if people ask them, which happens A LOT, but I don`t bring it up because once the good memories come back to me the bad ones are right behind them.
  38. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    February 14, 2013 at 11:26 pm
    5cats that makes no sense, a drone and sniper are a lot different. There`s even a particular PTSD with drone operators because they are completely removed from danger. Can you kill someone who is no threat to you or yours whatsoever, you know neither who or nothing about, acting just from an order in your ear?

    And the comparison with nukes? Are you insane? So someone standing within 200 miles of a target was their fault by your logic?
  39. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7740 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 4:53 am
    Once again, we see the arrogance and naivety of the American people. 5cats displays that full red-neckiness in all its glory. If this were North Korea you guys would be p*ssing yourselves with anger. Like I always say, at least the Korean people are aware they are being manipulated.
  40. Profile photo of hfsglay
    hfsglay Male 30-39
    4 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 5:42 am
    If Government wants to watch me itch my balls while cutting my grass; I`ll be sure to wave.
  41. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 6:15 am
    Anyway drones are the most cowards thing man have created

    ROFL!!! They said the same thing when gun entered the battlefield. You can`t stop technology only try to stay ahead of everyone else.
  42. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36668 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 6:40 am

    I can`t believe you guys are even discussing this!
    I watched 15 seconds of it before I stopped.
    Why? Because the first line was...

    "From UFOs to Psychic powers to Government Conspiracies - History is riddled with unexplained events"

  43. Profile photo of radoinc
    radoinc Male 18-29
    184 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 6:48 am
    They are using that drippy, chunky typewriter-y font, so it must be true.
    After all that`s the same US government that killed the hug-powered hemp van, man.
    Also aliens, just for good measure.
  44. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 6:54 am
    WAAAAY better than Canada`s stoopid "Constitution" I`ll tell you that!
    I don`t think so necessarily, there are benefits and detriments to both. For instance Section 1 of our Charter allows for limitations, such that our rights aren`t absolute as they are in the US, but it`s easier to deal with things like hate speech here than in the US. You say theirs is better, I say to each their own.
  45. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 7:10 am
    patchgrabber you must be used to 5Cats...he like to bite the hand that feeds him.
  46. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 7:13 am
    Like that
  47. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 7:24 am
    @piperfawn: Well, I`m sure @5cats loves this country (well, parts of it at least), but I do think the only thing keeping him here must be family, because he does sound like he`d be happier further south. Also it could just be that he`s been living in Winnipeg for too long, that would sour anyone`s disposition. ;-)
  48. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 9:39 am
    5Cats "but that didn`t work on IAB" in fact i don`t know how to post .gif here,any suggestion?
  49. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7740 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 10:47 am
    Which part of Homeland USA are they protecting again?
  50. Profile photo of dognose82
    dognose82 Male 18-29
    153 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 11:20 am
    I say that the ACLU goes to the site of every drone strike (within reason for safety) and launch a international Class Action Civil Suit representing every civilian`s family that was killed by a drone strike.
  51. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 11:31 am
    "I say that the ACLU goes to the site of every drone strike (within reason for safety) and launch a international Class Action Civil Suit representing every civilian`s family that was killed by a drone strike."

    You do know that the "A" in "ACLU" stands for "American", right? They don`t handle international cases.
  52. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32813 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 12:04 pm
    @piperfawn: You can post animated .gifs just like regular images. BUT not in the avatar, eh?

    There`s a couple of .gif websites that don`t link properly here too.

    I agree that dropping drones is quite illegal, and that Obama is 100% responsible, just like Bush was when he did it. Just like Nixon secretly bombing Cambodia.

    I like Canada a lot! I just don`t want it to be ruined by our idiotic politicians or naughty American Presidents...
  53. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4911 posts
    February 15, 2013 at 12:18 pm
    5Cats idiotic politicians are everywhere,this is the real problem.
  54. Profile photo of SpermNinja81
    SpermNinja81 Male 30-39
    459 posts
    February 16, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    They ran that movie `Eagle Eye` on TV here last night, stupid movie but the point is, the opening scene is a great example of the pros/cons of targeted killings by remote drones, If you haven`t seen it, the basic gist is that an individual believed to be a terrorist leader is spotted by a drone but the ID is not 100% positive, and he is surrounded by a large group of civilians. there`s a short but tense debate about whether they should fire a missile at this guy despite the collateral deaths, or risk letting him get away to carry out more terror attacks.I won`t give away the rest of the scene, but it is pretty clear to me from this type of example that it`s not the drone itself that`s the problem, but how the weapon is used or abused and the policies behind it`s use. To my dismay, I find myself paraphrasing some of the pro-gun members when I say `drones don`t kill people..people kill people`

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