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Date: 01/15/13 03:07 PM

49 Responses to 5 Facts About Guns, Schools, & Violence

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18943 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    Link: 5 Facts About Guns, Schools, & Violence - This clips answers A LOT of questions regarding gun control that have been floated around the I-A-B forums.
  2. Profile photo of rosieodonnel
    rosieodonnel Male 18-29
    27 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:29 pm
    I don`t think any of us asked about these things.
  3. Profile photo of JuggaloReign
    JuggaloReign Male 18-29
    55 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:33 pm
    fancylad posted a well rounded, accurate, and reasonable video about firearms in the US....Whaaaaa?
  4. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:36 pm
    He`s 100% right. Think with your head and don`t let your heart/emotions cloud your judgement. That`s the problem.
  5. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:44 pm
    That was useless...next.
  6. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    Nice! keep it short, keep it simple!

    Canada spent billions on "long rifle registration" (pistols have been registered since 1936, eh?) BILLIONS and there was nothing to show for it!
    Not one crime prevented.
    Not one crime solved.

    Billions spent on nothing = "gun control"?
    How about doing things that actually work? Not things which have failed before, failed elsewhere and continue to fail?

    1929 Mass killings = Prohibition, Al Capone, gangsters... fyi... see how well that worked? SUGAR was a "controlled substance" in order to "fight bootlegging".
  7. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1946 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 3:53 pm
    Waits for the typical anti-gun crowd to chime in trying to refute simple facts or claim they don`t matter anyway.
  8. Profile photo of wildancrazy
    wildancrazy Male 40-49
    138 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    This issue, `gun control`, is not about politicians thinking with their hearts, but fooling you with yours. Manufactured fear in the guise of action.
  9. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2348 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 4:19 pm
    I for one am appalled! If I wanted political leaders that governed with logic and reason as opposed to hysteria and an unending outlook towards our impending doom... um, wait- I think I see the problem here.
  10. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    and another horrific shooting avoided today in new york Link

    at least these people have their heads on straight
  11. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    That is NOT what I expected from a fancylad post.
  12. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 5:18 pm
    wildancrazy: I second your statement.

    Good post Fancylad.
  13. Profile photo of nettech98
    nettech98 Male 50-59
    1043 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 5:45 pm
    Right to concealed carry in NJ??? You wish! If that fact is wrong what else is??
  14. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 5:53 pm
    Funny how the pro-gun side only sees fear being manufactured on the gun-controll side. And the gun-controll side only sees fear being manufactured on the pro-gun side. Both sides are using fear to get their point across. There can`t be a sensible conversation until people admit this topic is being used to divide people.
  15. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm
    @nettech:

    New Jersey is a may-issue state.

    Read up on it.

    The only places that do not allow any type of gun, is Illinois, and DC. Ironically, DC and Chicago are two of the wost cities in the US when it comes to gun crimes.
  16. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 8:03 pm
    Well, ReasonTV has always had an anti-regulation position, that`s nothing new. Doesn`t necessarily negate their points, but I`m not sure what they were supposed to be.
    1)Violent crime and gun crime are lowering? Ignoratio elenchi, the number of school shootings hasn`t declined, so what`s the point?
    2)That there aren`t more shootings? I don`t know who`s saying there is, but that`s not the point, the point should be to lower it.
    3)Schools are safer? Yet there still isn`t a DECREASE in school shootings. So again what`s the point?
    4)More guns? Is someone saying that more guns should mean more school shootings? If your numbers are 81/100 or 88/100 I think the saturation of guns is so high that increasing it might not make a big difference, but I don`t know what correlation they are trying to get at here.
    5)Assault weapon ban ineffective? Well at least this one makes sense and may even be correct. But if at first you don`t succeed, f*ck it, right?
  17. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 9:00 pm
    "if at first you don`t succeed, f*ck it, right?"

    Doing the same thing over and over doesn`t fix it.
  18. Profile photo of SpermNinja81
    SpermNinja81 Male 30-39
    459 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm
    Note the paper target on the wall behind the presenter. A completely objective view? I don`t think so. If both sides of the argument can produce charts and statistics to support their claims, then who is right? It`s clear to me that information is being manipulated somewhere, and yes, The pro-control side is obviously guilty of this too.
  19. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm
    @patchy:
    #2 The anti-gun lobby, THAT`S who is constantly saying it!
    "We must make schools safer" which implies they are becoming "more dangerous". If the CURRENT laws already make schools safe, why change them?

    #3) Because schools are where the unarmed victems are. "gun free zones". John Dillenger`s reason for bank robbery, remember?

    #4) Yes, the anti-gun lobby. They`ve been saying for 50+ years that more guns = more crime & more laws = less crime. But has it once been true in 50 years? NOPE!

    5) "Hey, that law was useless, and cost a fortune."
    "Wow! What a great law! Lets make more just like that!"
    (two Democrats talking)

    School shootings are UP in the USA @patchy? Your source `svp`?
  20. Profile photo of 8jdb28jdb2
    8jdb28jdb2 Male 30-39
    83 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 10:18 pm
    This is just dumb. How can you equate demographic changes and immorally high incarceration rates with guns being okay? The lethality and the ease of access are the issues, not living in the movie `red dawn`. Is America the land of nonsensical arguments? Imo if your not a member of a militia, then you have no right to your gun.
  21. Profile photo of SavageChef
    SavageChef Female 50-59
    2692 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 10:59 pm
    1929? I`m guessing that would be shootings by gangsters, against gangsters, not mentally ill teens shooting little children.
  22. Profile photo of dubtac
    dubtac Male 18-29
    29 posts
    January 15, 2013 at 11:04 pm
    Amazing how many people on IAB are happy to let the government restrict your rights with TRIVIAL INTERPRETATIONS of your rights passed on by the founders of this Country.
    Everyone feels the right to express freely without prosecution or penalty for opening their DICK SUCKERS spewing commentary on issues that greatly affect everyone and that is our GOD Given RIGHT.
    The foolishness starts when the 2nd Amendment is stripped by TRIVIAL INTERPRETATIONS by the government.
    There is alot more at stake then GUNS, people your rights are under attack and go ahead support the ones who want your fragile freedoms so they may control you.
    What is to stop the Government from making TRIVIAL INTERPRETATIONS taking your PRECIOUS 1ST Amendment so you can`t post anymore foolishness against the powers to be?
    Is that what it will take for you to put your foot down and fight the oppression and actually have to pay the ultimate price for liberty?
    The Government is here to serve you NOT
  23. Profile photo of wildancrazy
    wildancrazy Male 40-49
    138 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 12:13 am
    Because of a breakdown of education, the corruption of Government, and the militarising of law enforcement; We all should be on guard that what is done in OUR name is in OUR interests, not the interests of those who seek to subjugate, control and own you.
    Do not be distracted by the shiny objects, the manufactured mass produced for mass consumption fear. Of your fellow Americans, of those of differing shades, of those of differing beliefs. As a whole every good person wishes for the same; Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Our greatest strength is ourselves, our greatest weapon is our constitution.
    Guard this document with your very life, with it we are citizens, without..subjects..
    We are the people. We are America.
    We do not forget Treason, we do not forgive those who would be our betters.
    Gun control is not the issue, but a distraction which furthers a agenda not to your betterment.
  24. Profile photo of avail9988
    avail9988 Male 18-29
    700 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 12:39 am
    That chick at 1:48 is so hot
  25. Profile photo of Vexys
    Vexys Male 18-29
    74 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 4:09 am
    @AuburnJunkey, not gonna throw my hat down one way or the other but surely adjoining states with more lax gun control is a contributing factor to gun crime rates in Illinois and DC?

    Not gonna just make a number up as I have no source but with free travel between states surely it must be contributing even if in a smalll amount
  26. Profile photo of Vexys
    Vexys Male 18-29
    74 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 4:22 am
    cant verify the veracity as its just the most immediate source I`ve found of evidence corroborating my point after a quick google search. Plus its from `99 and as Im not a US citizen there may well of been laws or regulations put in place since then to diminish this.

    None the less....

    Link
  27. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7752 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 4:30 am
    One death from a gun is one too many whichever way you try to justify it. But, if it stops your corrupt government from its dictatorship of the world, maybe I`ll look the other way.
  28. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 5:41 am
    @5cats: You`re just regurgitating their points, which don`t have any bearing on SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.
    "We must make schools safer" which implies they are becoming "more dangerous".
    Actually that only implies that they want to make them safer. You`re just inferring that they mean schools are getting worse.
    Because schools are where the unarmed victems are.
    What? That had nothing to do with gun free zones, and the amount of assaults in a school has nothing to do with school shootings, so you still aren`t addressing the point of contention.
    They`ve been saying for 50+ years that more guns = more crime & more laws = less crime.
    Some may be saying this, but AGAIN it`s not the point. The point is fewer SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.
    "Hey, that law was useless, and cost a fortune."
    You may be right, but then since the mental health system isn`t identifying these people before the
  29. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 5:43 am
    ...shootings, we should just give up on mental health programs too.

    School shootings are UP in the USA @patchy? Your source `svp`?
    I never said that, don`t strawman this discussion. Just because they aren`t up doesn`t mean they shouldn`t go down, I would have thought you`d know that.
  30. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 6:00 am
    This used to be called common sense....


    Pretty cute the government can order 450 million rounds of .40 cal hollow points for homeland security which don`t follow the Geneva convention but they insist on telling citizens what they should and should not own.
  31. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7614 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 6:53 am
    If the facts and figures he gives are correct, and they are not either overshadowed by other facts or heavily manipulated then this is a good thing. No one should support laws which are not backed up by evidence and good sense- reactionary laws are usually bad laws. However- this argument goes both ways- if in fact mass shootings are down, then there is no need to put guns into schools or even more into the hands of the public. Generally speaking the public are not to be trusted with very much at all...
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 7:01 am
    Generally speaking the public are not to be trusted with very much at all...

    SO put that trust in politicians ROFL!!!
  33. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 7:54 am
    the number of school shootings hasn`t declined, so what`s the point?

    Since no one has asserted that they`ve increased, a possible conclusion is that such incidents have received increased scrutiny since the 90s.

    Schools are safer?

    They`re maybe too little we can do to reduce the frequency, but why do you think that`s important? The schools themselves have already put forth significant effort to reduce casualties in such events.
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 7:58 am
    @patchy: Perhaps because the "new laws" have NOTHING to do with "school shootings" eh?

    #1 "School Shootings" is just a gun-grabber "buzzword" to cover-up their true intentions. They don`t honestly care if schools "get safer" as witnessed by their push for "gun free zones", IN SCHOOLS. It`s propoganda.
    These are the exact same people, they haven`t suddenly "changed their tune" they want to restrict and/or overturn the 2nd amendment, period.

    These "limits" Obama will anounce? They`ll do just that: limit law-abiding freedoms while NOT making children one iota safer.
    High-capacity magazines? Which school shooters used those? Columbine? Nope. Virginia tech? Nope. Newton? Nope. Which ones I ask?

    Strawman: funny how you "see mine" but think your own are real men.
  35. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 9:26 am
    I don`t disagree with a lot of what they`re saying, but they are also looking at this from a narrow perspective. I see nothing here that contradicts the idea that we should have mandatory background checks and close the gun show loophole. If we`re going to implement laws to keep people safer, those laws have to have teeth. You can`t expect any gun control measures to be effective if criminals can easily get their hands on them in the next state.
  36. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 10:46 am
    >>>I see nothing here that contradicts the idea that we should have mandatory background checks and close the gun show loophole.<<<

    Then I suggest you miss the point. You, and I do not mean you specifically but your side in general, have not provided any thing to support the idea that doing so would have a positive effect.

    This goes to the heart of the argument being made by the media, folks like Randi Rhodes and Piers Morgan, "Why do you `need` an `insert gun name here?`" They seem to indicate that if a gun owner can not justify, in their opinion, why gun X is `needed` than the right to own gun X should be eliminated. This is a preposterous way to make legislation. If this were the standard we should easily be able to make the argument that alcohol and tobacco products should be banned, and perhaps I can finally ban ties as well. We should make laws based on evidence that supports the idea that the legislation solves or reduces the
  37. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 10:47 am
    cut off again.

    We should make laws based on evidence that supports the idea that the legislation solves or reduces the problem targeted.
  38. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7614 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 10:57 am
    No McGovern- I try my best not to trust anyone without reason. But I certainly do not trust the bloody general public... do you?
  39. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 11:07 am
    From across the border, I`m looking at something resembling a vast heard of horses bounding around a million-acre ranch, and the President standing at one of several doors on the barn, threatening to close it.
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 11:55 am
    @FoolsPrussia: Forcing private citizens to register ALL gun sales? Who exactly is going to PAY for that?
    Canada tried registration, it cost a FORTUNE and did NOTHING. Since it was repealed? NO increase in gun deaths.

    @madduck: About 100 million Americans already own guns, yet only a TINY % of them have caused harm. Of that group: those that cause harm ALREADY have ILLEGAL guns! One way or another: criminals will ALWAYS have weapons.

    The question is: should citizens be "allowed" to protect themselves & their families?

    @dang007: You are correct! This is the same mentality that caused "prohibition" and look how well THAT worked!
    Also the "War On Drugs" has totally worked as well, eh?
    I`m sure the "War On Guns" will bring utopia to the USA!

    New buzzword: "gun safety" laws...
  41. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    @5cats: I`m quite certain there were no strawman arguments made by me here. If the goal is to reduce the number of school shootings, then many of their points are irrelevant.

    they want to restrict and/or overturn the 2nd amendment, period.
    Ok, this argument has no legs. News flash: They ALREADY restrict the 2nd amendment. Prisoners, convicted felons and mentally ill have their right taken away, people cannot own things like automatic weapons, so the requirements for restriction are inherently arbitrary. Since the right is subject to arbitrary restriction, it follows that other arbitrary restriction is socially acceptable if enough of the population supports it. So go cry about them losing rights that don`t apply to you all you want, but it doesn`t change the fact that you aren`t crying about these other restrictions of the 2nd amendment.
  42. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    They don`t honestly care if schools "get safer" as witnessed by their push for "gun free zones", IN SCHOOLS. It`s propoganda.
    That sentence is propaganda, you`re assuming that more guns would have prevented this from happening, which is conjecture. I wonder how many guns would be stolen if students knew a teacher`s desk contained one?
  43. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    But I certainly do not trust the bloody general public... do you?

    Pretty sure that`s a reason to own a gun.
  44. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 1:24 pm
    @patchy: It seems Obama has called for MORE SROs, armed police inside schools, so go argue with HIM ok?

    An armed SRO in Virginia Tech MIGHT have stopped a mass killing, but they were "gun free", it`s a fact.
    An armed SRO at Newton MIGHT have prevented a mass killing, but (iirc) they were a "gun free zone" also.
    Aurora theater? Gun Free Zone.

    So yes, sometimes guns CAN stop mass killings. No guarentee, nothing in this world is. Except taxes, and death...
  45. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7614 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 1:34 pm
    Problem is McGovern- that reasoning works well if I am the only one with the only gun. But everone thinks that- so they all have guns too, which is worse than none of us having `em...
  46. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm
    @madduck: "In a perfect world,everyone would think just like me!"

    Yeah, and? Teh world aint perfect, bad monsters loom at every corner. When seconds count? The police are 10 minutes away...
  47. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    January 17, 2013 at 2:37 am
    It only takes one 5Cat to ruin a perfectly good message... For once some kind of rationality, even when it`s pro-gun (i think) and i`m anti, this kind of discussion presented in the video is useful.. But bad monsters at every corner, man you`re delusional (or was it conservative, you know the people who are more afraid, a fact that`s been proven...). Never needed a gun, have been pointed at them at worst possible situations, never needed violence even when threatened and never had to beg or give out any of my possession (got some bumb and bruises and a lot of pride)... I`ve had enough experience to know that the world we both live in, is a relatively safe place indeed. No need to be frightened, at all.
  48. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    January 17, 2013 at 4:57 am
    in all fariness, how much i dont like guns and i am for stricter gun laws, i have no thought what so ever that it wont create a safer world. its not just gun control to keep people from killing eachother. yes with a gun it is easier, but in all fairness, bombs work too, hell a metal bar works..
    so, stricter gun laws? i am for it, will it prevent mass masacre`s like sandy hook? well, i hope so but in all fairness, it will only make it harder, and not by much.

    I guess the discussion should be how we can prevent sandy hooks, not how we limit or promote gun use.

    (that being said, if you cant get a gun, you cant use it either, but thats my 2 cents)
  49. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    January 17, 2013 at 12:30 pm
    Never needed a gun,
    @CreamK: Well lucky you! Neither have I actually, lucky me too!
    But every year, in every country on Earth, there is:
    Rape
    Murder
    Assault
    Robbery
    People hit by lightning.

    Is that last one a joke? No. We pass laws to PUNISH those who offend, to prevent them from raping & etc again.
    If we passed a laws requiring everyone to carry a lightning rod around with them, would that be a good idea? It might save a life or two, but at what cost?
    Insted we allow people the FREEDOM to determine how to PROTECT themselves. From rape or lightning.

    Banning guns removes that freedom. It takes away that protection BY FORCE.

    Or limits it exclusively to "the rich". You like that idea? I don`t.

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