Spiegal`s Assessment Of The State Of The Union.

Submitted by: LordJim 4 years ago
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/divided-states-of-america-notes-on-the-decline-of-a-great-nation-a-865295.html

Grim reading. Thoughts?
There are 64 comments:
Male 411
Hilarious and sad how the R-tards continue to behave in this thread exactly how they were described in the article.

I blame the churches and the right wing spin machine (i.e. fox news and talk radio) for this delusional hardliner stance against reason and progress.
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Male 36,556
@ccalhond: I randomly picked two bills the Repubs were said by your source to see what was what:

H.R. 2454 – American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009
Was voted against TWICE by a certain Democrat (who was the author of the other one I checked).

SO: Your source blames ONLY Repubs, but of the 40+ bills listed, I find a Dem who voted against, on my second fact-check?

PLEASE consider the source! dailykos is uber-biased and prone to repeating liberal lies as if they were facts!

Your Source Used THIS super-liberal as it`s source!

If any of these bills were THAT important, why wasn`t cloture invoked?
It`s just propoganda for the left.
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Male 7,123
TheGuySmiley

Dagenham, you have reached Dagenham. This is your destination.
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Male 14,330
[quote]European Union isn`t unified[/quote]

Quite the Union so what you`re saying is it`s falling apart.
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Male 13,624
Nah to mind, the end is nigh
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Male 15,832
I`d like to take this moment to express my appreciation all of you who voted for Barack Obama.

Gee, thanks.
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Male 36,556
Thanks guys, for your serious replies!
However it`s my bad (character count!) to not specify "when Dems controlled both House and Senate".
Naturally when the Repubs control the House, like 2011, SOME deals are going to happen.
I mean when the Dems had 60 (or 59) Senate seats and the house.

Obama had no trouble blaming Repubs for EVERYTHING before the mid-terms, even though they had NO actual power (unless a Democrat crossed the party line. Even then, it would take ONE RHINO as I`ve pointed out. There have to be 4-6 of them, at least!)

If his own party won`t support him? Why should the opposition?
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Male 210
oh, i got beat to it.
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Male 210
5cats- The debt deal in which John Bohner claimed R`s got 90% of what they wanted. Which pretty much means they got to keep the tax cuts for the rich while cutting programs for the poor.
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Male 3,445
`show us an important bill which Obama (or Reid, or Pelosi) changed specificly due to "compromise with the Repubs".`

The debt deal in 2011.

And when the Democrats controlled the House, the Republicans blocked 375 bills in the Senate.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Please take this to heart, Americans. Despite all your shortcomings, i would rather have America rule the world than China.

You need to get your act together fast.[/quote]

This, in spades redoubled.

The USA is founded on noble ideas and generally at least tries to live up to them to some extent. China kills its own people for wanting to vote.

[quote]Ps. Kain1, I`d rather not "rule the world," imperialism turns me off. Why can`t we treat each other like equals?[/quote]

Because countries aren`t equal and it would be a silly lie to treat them that way. The USA has more money than any other country, a lot more, so it has a lot more power. Treating other countries like equals is very likely to be patronising at best because it`s so obviously false.
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Male 36,556
He`s fighting to spend the masses of money that should belong to the masses...

If things continue (and there`s NO sign it will change) Obama will have spent more than 10 Trillion in his 8 year term: more than ALL the history of the USA combined... Closer to 12 actually.

"if only people knew"...
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Male 36,556
[quote]Its funny that Obama continually bends to them...[/quote]
@scapegoat7: Never, hasn`t happened, not even once. Prove it: show us an important bill which Obama (or Reid, or Pelosi) changed specificly due to "compromise with the Repubs".
I`ll wait. I`ve asked this question many times.
Only answer I got was a VERY trivial bill which had one timy alteration.
Obamacare? Repubs were NOT EVEN ASKED. In fact, neither were the Dems! NO ONE KNEW what was in it! ffs...

[quote]...most of us would side with him when he`s right. [/quote]
YES! When he`s right, the Repubs vote for his bills, DUH! That`s how it works, dummy.

16 Trillion in debt = right? Um, nope! And Obama wants UNLIMITED SPENDING for his last 4 years...
"fighting for the masses" = LOLZ! Like Stalin & Mao & Pol Pot did...

Thank goodness @Angilion`s brought some intelligence back to this post.
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Male 12,365
[quote]The EU is falling apart.[/quote]

The EU was never stuck together.

You want a genuinely unified Europe? Maybe in a few centuries, unless unification is imposed by force (and a *lot* of force would be required).

Take my country, for example. England has been unified for about 1100 years and it`s *still* quite divided (north and south). Scotland joined the union 300 years ago because they needed boatloads of English money to rescue their economy and they`re still complaining about it (and making noises about leaving). There`s even some talk about Cornwall leaving the union and that goes back to the Roman occupation 2000 years ago!

Unifying Europe in 50 years? No. 500 years, maybe.
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Male 36,556
[quote]The republicans are extremely radical...[/quote]
@ccalhoun: How very neutral and UN-biased of you!
Your ignorance is matched only by your link which proves MY POINT.
#1 The DEMS refused to compromise. How did all those other PotUS get things passed? Even without 60 Senate seats, AND a House majority? Hint: compromise.
#2 You chart PROVES the Dems refused to do so. As it shows "cloture" was SUCCESSFULLY used to DEFEAT the filibusters... like I said! (not here, I`ve been saying this for ages, to @HG anf @FP and others, now you too!)

[quote]...they most often have NO IDEA what to do...[/quote]
Lolz! What? Adults, professionals, business persons and lawyers = have NO ideas? Wrong! The MSM refuses to TELL YOU what their ideas are, then falsly claims they`ve presented none! & you swallow it...


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Male 12,365
Basically, the European Union isn`t unified. It`s a mash of seperate countries sort of mostly agreeing in principle to work together and complaining about any kind of federal government, which is widely dismissed (with some reason) as a power-hungry undemocratic waste of vast sums of money.

Politicians in the EU generally want more unification. People in the EU generally don`t. They generally want their countries to remain countries, not to lose their independence and become regions in EU, ruled from somewhere else mostly by people from somewhere else.

From my own reading, I`d say that the EU is broadly similar to the USA but with significantly less unification between the member states. There are 23 official languages (and dozens of others used quite widely) and few people self-identify their nationality as "EU" or "European".
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Male 12,365
[quote]I would need an insider`s take on the EU, unfamiliar ground and all. But generally I hear it`s always been pretty fractious, no one can decide what to do about certain floating eastern European countries, France enjoys sticking it`s tongue out at England and England characteristically throws up it`s hands and says, "It`s your problem, you fix it, see if I care!"[/quote]

I think that`s a reasonably accurate brief synopsis. The only things I`d disagree with are these:

1) It`s the UK, not England. England`s about 3/4 of the UK, but not all of it.

2) I think that the UK`s position is more "We`re paying too much (in terms of both resources and loss of autonomy) already. We`re not willing to pay more, so fix your problems yourself." Oh, and we stick our tongue out back at France. It`s traditional :)
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Male 1,243
lauriloo: chanting at the lil` white house on the hill will be good enough.
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Female 1,803
@TheGuySmiley- How about we all go to your house instead and tell you to shut up and mind your own business already?
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Male 1,243
It`s simple. Gather in front of the little white house on the hill; bring your friends, neighbours, the kids, invite people to join in as they visit and walk by on the street. Just chant "DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!! DEATH TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!... " over and over again. Then grow in numbers, and continue, and don`t stop. Exercise your freedom of speech, make a stand against what`s become known as the world`s #1 terrorist regime.. Do it for your kids, do it for your country, do it for your world. Do it for your future. Don`t stop until the little white house has been handed over to the people again.
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Female 1,803
"Actually, it`s going to take a great change in you, the people. To expect Super President-Man to wave his magic wand to make all your troubles go away is foolish at best."

Ain`t that the truth. Kind of like religion, huh?
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Male 2,332
"I believe its going to take a great leader to get us out of this mess."

Actually, it`s going to take a great change in you, the people. To expect Super President-Man to wave his magic wand to make all your troubles go away is foolish at best.
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Male 1,421
It almost seems like someone is holding your country as a hostage, halting everything until it collapses and then saying "we told you so!"
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Male 1,421
Bush made USA a running joke, Obama has raised your countrys credibility outside US. That is a fact and there`s no denying it, no matter how ferociously you try to deny it.
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Male 210
lauriloo- Actually I did notice. He`s actually fighting for the masses, just hope he keeps it up. It just seems like he usually bends. Even though the GOP never give a plan of their own besides cut entitlements that were working fine under Clinton.
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Female 1,803
"If he went to the American people and explained what he`s trying to do and why, most of us would side with him when he`s right."

I guess you haven`t been paying attention to everything Obama has been doing to get his message out to people lately in social media and rallies across the USA. The GOP is complaining that he is acting like he is still running for office because they don`t like him making sure all of us know what is going on and who is blocking what. AND they are surprised that he is showing no signs of backing down on the promises people voted for, unlike all the concessions he made during his first time because he naively believed the GOP was willing to do what it takes to make a deal everyone can agree with.
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Male 210
Its funny that Obama continually bends to them, I think he`s a closet republican (or being bought by the same people). If he went to the American people and explained what he`s trying to do and why, most of us would side with him when he`s right.
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Male 210
ccalhoun- DANG!!!!!!!

I try not to go after them too harshly, just drop some knowledge.
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Male 76
@5cats: History of the Filibuster Really? The GOP has created a total lockdown of ANY progress, abusing a means that should have been eliminated decades ago. The republicans are extremely radical, they most often have NO IDEA what to do, they only know that they are supposed to disagree and fight with the opposing party, much like CrakrJak. They have no plan, no purpose, no clear path to achieve peace and prosperity in America, they just blab hate and oppression and say it`s because they love jesus. drat, you republicans are so lost. America lost ALL CREDIBILITY during the 8 years of BUSH in office, not the 4 years of obama. How drating deep in denial can you morons be?
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Male 210
I believe its going to take a great leader to get us out of this mess. Obama isn`t that. Its gonna be tricky though. Their going to have to lie to the corporations and lobbies to get money and get voted in. Then do whats right and hopefully not get their head blown off.
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Male 3,445
That was a great read. Sometimes it takes an outsider`s view to make you see the truth about yourself.
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Male 4,746
To elaborate, what you view as "destroying things", the rest of us view as "fixing things". Get rid of the evil hatred that the church spews out. Introduce health care so you can have a healthy, working society. The way the Republicans are heading is similar to a third world country where there is a small rich community and then the poverty stricken masses.
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Male 4,746
auburnjunky:
"Patch: Fixing things?
They stop him from destroying things."
------------

That`s the big difference here. To Democrats, social equalities and responsibilities are a solid foundation to a moral and strong country. To a Republican, they are trying to "take away my church and my freedom".

As long as the church has a firm grasp on the Republicans, they will continue to spread their evil and hate and the Republican party will continue to draw everyone into the middle ages. This is the main reason that the founding Fathers wanted to keep religion out of politics.
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Female 2,228
Carmium the most hilarious representation of us I`ve yet seen is our incarnation in Hetalia, Alfred F. Jones. Burgers and guns and all, he makes me laugh but he also makes me headdesk more often than not because it`s so true. ;-)
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Female 2,228
I would need an insider`s take on the EU, unfamiliar ground and all. But generally I hear it`s always been pretty fractious, no one can decide what to do about certain floating eastern European countries, France enjoys sticking it`s tongue out at England and England characteristically throws up it`s hands and says, "It`s your problem, you fix it, see if I care!"

All of which would still be preferable to debating whether or not we should let sick people go w/o health care or poor people go w/o a social safety net.
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Female 6,381
QueenZira:
I`d like to think you`re right, because Americans` abysmal ignorance of the world beyond their borders (and often with them) is a standard source of humor north of the border. America as a country is one of the greatest concepts in human history, and I`d hate to see it dissolve into chaos - not that its greatest trading partner wouldn`t go right along with it!
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Male 14,330
@QueenZira

The EU is falling apart.
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Male 14,330
@Draculya

You should follow your own advice.
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Female 2,228
McGovern- I hear that whole "Austerity" thing isn`t working too well for them, but that`s about the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. We need to translate more foreign news more often, I reject the notion we`re not curious about the rest of the world.

I just want our general relationship to be more collegial and less squabbly (Is that a word? Well it is now). Dueling tetch fields exhausts me.
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Male 14,775
Americans consider criticism or America to be un-patriotic whether it comes from within out without. Not listening to criticism is un-patriotic because it means you are unwilling to consider the problems, let alone, fix the country.
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Male 14,330
[quote]Why does it feel like every time we let down Europe it`s like disappointing a sarcastic, overbearing but nonetheless concerned parent?[/quote]

I wouldn`t be to concerned with them they`re doing a fine job screwing up their own countries as a whole.
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Male 411
Hilarious and sad how the R-tards continue to behave in this thread exactly how they were described in the article.

I blame the churches and the right wing spin machine (i.e. fox news and talk radio) for this delusional hardliner stance against reason and progress.
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Male 296
Its sad that people like 5Cats and auburnjunky still think that the current state of America is somehow Obama`s fault. Its people like you guys who are keeping this country divided by voting for these right wing nut jobs so they can continue to filibuster everything that Obama comes up with, doesn`t matter if its good or bad, they`ll still block it out of spite.

Can you not look past your own prejudice to see the truth for what it is? The GOP are acting like a bunch of spiteful children simply because they don`t like change. Its their fault we`re not able to get out of this rut our country is in.
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Female 2,228
Why does it feel like every time we let down Europe it`s like disappointing a sarcastic, overbearing but nonetheless concerned parent?

Anywhoo, I don`t buy into all the "decline, death, Armageddon hyperbole, because that`s just what it is, hyperbole. And frankly The Republic has seen *much* worse in it`s history than this particular class of Rep. a$$clowns. Democracy is a messy business, it takes time and effort to work, but it will work, and we`ll be dragging those Rs kicking and screaming into the future, just like we always do, for The Duration.

Ps. Kain1, I`d rather not "rule the world," imperialism turns me off. Why can`t we treat each other like equals?
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Female 1,803
" If the Dems come up with a way to cure cancer, GOP would vote/filibuster it to oblivion. "

*cough* stem cell research *cough*
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Male 330
Auburn, are you kidding? Ron Paul is a moderate, that`s pretty much the definition of a libertarian. Keep government out of things. Fiscal conservative + social liberal... he would have beaten Obama hands down.
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Male 1,471
[quote]They stop him from destroying things.[/quote]
What has he attempted to destroy, that the republicans stopped him doing?
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Male 10,339
Patch: Fixing things?

They stop him from destroying things.
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Male 4,746
@5Cats, The problem isn`t that Obama"s a dictator, bent on destroying things, it`s that every time he tries to fix the problems created by previous governments, he is stopped by the Republicans. The Republicans can`t stop him from fixing things and then complain that things aren`t fixed.
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Male 10,339
"Ron Paul was the most moderate"

HOLY poo WHAT?!

He was the most right conservative!
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Male 330
Disagree 5Cats... Ron Paul was the most moderate, and he got ridiculed as a silly old man who doesn`t know what he`s talking about.
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Male 508
"The United States is frittering away its role as a model for the rest of the world."

Really which countries would call the US "role model"? I think the base problem is a first world one, where the people have an inflated sense of self entitlement and an inane fear that if their opinions aren`t met, then the world will cave into it`s core. It won`t and you aren`t as entitled as you think. Stop worrying about the rest of the world, it`ll get along just fine. Start worrying about that divide that`s building in your own country and fix it. It`s annoying, as an outsider, and as someone with family ties to the US, to see it`s own people fighting over trite.
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Male 1,471
@5cats: Have you completely missed the point of the article, or are you purposefully ignoring it?

The main reason America is failing is because nothing is being done to prevent it! Why is nothing being done? Mainly because the GOP is almost completely unwilling to compromise. Why are they unwilling to compromise? Because of some irrational and unfounded hatred of the president and the democratic party. A hatred that is apparently more important than getting anything done. Meanwhile, the infrastructure is failing, the education system is failing, and the economy is failing.

You have brought this upon yourselves.
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Male 36,556
[quote]Our government has a sane party, and a radical party so bent on oppression...[/quote]
Wow, @ccalhoun86: I never thought you`d say that about Obama! He`s hell-bent on becoming a dictator. He`s violated the US Constitution so much already, and now that he`s got no re-election to campaign for? He`ll pull out all the stops.

Sanity doesn`t get you elected in the USA anymore.

The Repubs ran their MOST moderate candidate... and lost badly, twice in a row!

The whole world used to look up to and admire the USA (even if they said they hated y`all, there was still respect) Obama has frittered that away in 4 short years, it`s only going to get worse...
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Male 1,471
Please take this to heart, Americans. Despite all your shortcomings, i would rather have America rule the world than China.

You need to get your act together fast.
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Male 1,048
Damn good read. Worth the time it took. All to true and so damn sad. Not in a emotional way but a, I feel pity for my own stinking country kind of way. But like I said to some of my friends before. There is progress and then there is the illusion of progress. Right now we are stuck in the illusion. The hard part isn`t knowing which is the right path to take. The hard part is getting back into the progressive state we once were in. We need to update so much. Have technology work with the ever increasing ferocity of nature, reevaluate laws and Fix or abolish our monetary system. It has no basis anymore. It can`t even be traded for gold anymore. That`s how worthless money is
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Male 1,421
Of course i live in Internet and it`s a sad fact that the most progressive thinking people congress in the electronic realm and the backwards people are still trying to do usenet pages skewing the percentages. It just could be that US really is the dumbest nation ever to rise to Empire status..
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Male 1,421
Sounds about correct. From an outsider who once thought USA was the most awesome place on Earth transforming itself as third world country with ridiculously inflated army forces. From scientific superpower screaming towards dark ages again, it`s been saddening.

The article points out correctly where the fault lies: GOP refusing to do anything. If the Dems come up with a way to cure cancer, GOP would vote/filibuster it to oblivion. Why? Just because they can.

The weird thing is that it doesn`t seem like 50% of Americans are Republicans. It really don`t reflect what we see.. I wouldn`t be surprised if GOP power is just a mirage and the real numbers are something different.
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Male 2,578
As for the article, it`s largely accurate. The nation has changed greatly, for the worse.
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Male 2,578
Ilikelogic, what are you doing? I think you just hit self-destruct.
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Male 76
I voted this 4 stars because it`s true. America is dying. Our government has a sane party, and a radical party so bent on oppression and forcing their religious beliefs down our throats in every facet of our lives, that there is no longer a reasonable middle ground. The empire is failing. The biggest flaw in the system is the inability to, in a crisis situation such as we have, simply destroy the radicals by means of violence. Sad that America needs a violent rebellion like we`re a third world country, but when we give a faction of the government the ability to filibuster every attempt at progress, not based on the content or context of progress, but simply because they dislike the opposing party, because they care so drating little for the well being of anyone that doesn`t share their beliefs and lifestyle, we prevent ourselves from ever moving forward. How can you blame one man for not doing enough, when you have several hundred doing everything they can to stop him out of hate?
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Male 550
STOP!!
Dear americans, don`t read this article.
It`s just the view of those communist, social welfare, old europeans.
Don`t bother about those.
What do they know about the great nation of the United States of America.

Greetings from Luxemburg.

(Come on, feed me)
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Male 7,123
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