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Date: 12/05/12 10:00 AM

47 Responses to Money, Power & The American Dream

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 8:33 am
    Link: Money, Power & The American Dream - America, the land of opportunity? Is the game `rigged` by the rich and creating unprecedented inequality in the U.S.A.?
  2. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:22 am
    The answer to your question is a resounding YES!! The game IS most definitely rigged by the rich and yes that IS creating unprecedented inequality in the U.S.A. and around the world.
    Thanks for posting these...
  3. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:33 am
    Cue the "class warfare" and "greed is good" talking points.
  4. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6776 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:41 am
    I just watched "Million Dollar Rooms" last night where some rich b.itch who was born loaded and never worked a day in her life was all smiles while she showed off her $50,000 gold gilded dining room chairs and $750,000 chandelier. Meanwhile kids are starving to death.

    How the f.uck is everyone OK with this? How are the poor not killing the rich and eating them?
  5. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:43 am
    Den when joo get da money, joo get da power. Den when joo get da power, Den joo get da women.
  6. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:43 am
    How are the poor not killing the rich and eating them?

    Too chewy.
  7. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6776 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:44 am
    FoolsPrussia

    "Cue the "class warfare""

    Isn`t that funny? That term used to refer to the things the rich did to keep the poor down. Now the rich are using it to complain about how the poor treat THEM. There are not enough tiny violins in the world.
  8. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:47 am
    "There are not enough tiny violins in the world."

    Tiny Stradivarius, in this case.
  9. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:48 am
    Boy I feel dumber just watching this.
  10. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 10:52 am
    How the f.uck is everyone OK with this? How are the poor not killing the rich and eating them?

    Funny I never thought of you as a hateful guy.
  11. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:08 am
    If anyone doesn`t know this by now then they`ve either been living in a cave somewhere or they`re in denial.
  12. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6776 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:14 am
    Cajun247

    "Funny I never thought of you as a hateful guy."

    I`m not hateful at all. However, I`m very comfortable.

    I`m just surprised the poor are so complacent. I can`t imagine having to watch my kids go to bed hungry and then seeing some woman who has done nothing to earn it bragging about $50,000 chairs.

    You don`t find that inequality fairly staggering?
  13. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:35 am
    You don`t find that inequality fairly staggering?

    Be that as it may, she inherited it and her parents who almost certainly worked hard for it. On top of which she still has bills to pay, so it`s not like she can keep it for free. People of the lower class can do one of two things: complain, or work to build wealth. Most likely they choose the latter.
  14. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:48 am
    Boy I feel dumber just watching this.
    Impossible statement is impossible.
  15. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:49 am
    Duuuuuh, the system has been the same since the beginning. Rely on God, not man.
  16. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 11:50 am
    Equal...hahaha in your dreams.
  17. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    People of the lower class can do one of two things: complain, or work to build wealth. Most likely they choose the latter.

    That statement is impossible!! People in the lower class can`t afford anything beyond a high school education or at best a community college. Then they have to get a job to pay off their student loans and afterwards can barely make a mortgage/rent payment, due to the massive gap between the stagnant minimum wage and the ever increasing cost of living. In most cases, a single working parent can`t even afford a 2 bedroom apartment or house in most major cities. Meanwhile CEO`s continue to give themselves bonuses while the working class has had to scrounge to make ends meet because if they have the audacity to ask for a wage increase they`ll just get fired and their jobs will be outsourced to another country.

  18. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 12:08 pm
    The idea that if you work hard you can build wealth is dead, the current state of America is "You do your job and don`t complain because you should just be thankful you have a job". Companies are taking advantage of the current state of the economy to keep their employee`s wages stagnant while they continue to pay CEOs and upper management millions in bonuses each year.
    The game is rigged and there isn`t much we can do about it, unless everyone is willing put their assumptions aside to see the truth and agree that something needs to change.
  19. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 1:20 pm
    This is going to be long... Have to stop checking here before bed :-)

    People do not begrudge the wealth & the wealthy. If a business is running an operation that is legal, socially/ environmentally/ fiscally responsible business in addition to provide much needed or appreciated commodity or service - then yeah power to them. They deserve their billions.
    There are a few businesses that manage to achieve this.
    Capitalism in democracy is the best system thus far.
    The people in charge in this documentary are not this category. Not only do they rape environment, produce products that are in most cases down right harmful to people, dodge fair taxation, debase real science are greedy beyond any reason. The financial institutes gamble on hard earn money of the millions & when ship starts to sink jump out first like the rats they are.
    You want to trust them to self regulate?
    No what you want is a kick in you deranged head.
    Line up. I will put on my stee
  20. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    Common knowledge: legislation is whored out to money from lobbyist,
    If dems fail to pass campaign fund reforms, this time around, they should just admit to being a useless, neutered mongrels.
    There is no justification for accepting Wall st. money any longer
    You can campaign just as effectively on Youtube, twitter, emails,door to door,.. All for FREE.
    This election proved that.
    Individual vote must be made more powerful then the special interest money.

    When politicians are free from the purse strings of lobbyist; they will be free to do the job they were elected to do.
  21. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    I can understand how the lobbyist & the fox noise & right wing commentates or the politicians propped up the fund donations sing the chorus with the billionaire puppeteers.
    Their salaries depend on them.
    Why do poor sons of bitches on IAB wanna sing the chorus is beyond me.
    All busy painting a targets on their foot.

    It`s OK guys the health care reform under Obama administration will help you :-)

    Good night all.
  22. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    Please post the `soul food` doc. It`s an extension on the topic of class warfare. How big `fake food` (canned, ready to eat & completely fake with colour & chemical variety) businesses & big supermarket chains have made it near impossible for middle/ lower class families to get access to real, fresh food.
    Think why certain groups of people are, disproportionately, suffering from food related diseases. How that puts strain on Healthcare.
    How the foods they can afford and have access to, i.e. fast food are designed to be addictive.
    Not to mention what a nutrient deficient diet does to human body & brain. At the minimum diminished productivity, at worst criminal tendencies.
    Learn how a whole class of people have lost a right to food & why.
    Here`s a clue. It`s money. Some people are getting rich but hey they are slender & healthy. They can afford it.
  23. Profile photo of Fancysucksss
    Fancysucksss Male 18-29
    1048 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm
    Something needs to change.
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Liberal tripe.
    Being rich does not make you evil.
    It doesn`t make you right, wrong, or good & moral.
    It just makes you comfortable.

    Being poor does not make you right.
    It doesn`t make you deserving of anything more.
    It doesn`t mean a thing except you can`t buy as much.

    Get up & Get Over It.
  25. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 4:32 pm
    You know gerry, I don`t think I`ve ever heard myself or any of my Liberal fellows ever say being rich or well to do was evil. After all, we have quite a few political ancestors of blessed memory that, financially speaking, make your saint Ronnie Raygun look like a common busboy.

    No what matters is what you do with your wealth and privilege. Do you use it to do the morally right thing and uplift those most in need (an incessant injunction found all throughout the Judeoxian scriptures cons claim to revere most above all).

    Or do you become a purveyor of Dickensian dystopia where you create an impermeable wealth incumbency for those at the very top while callously declaring like Scrooge, "Are there no work houses? Are there no debtor`s prisons?" When it comes to everybody else.

    This is the gravity of the situation.
  26. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    @QZ but the "solution" to the USA`s deficit crisis is: "Take More Money From `The Rich`" which dozens of IABers have parroted.

    Not only would that NOT solve the problem, it would make things WORSE.
    Understand? Y`all would still have deficits, but `The Rich` would excercise their freedom and MOVE! They`d move their money away, close industry in the (higher tax) USA and POOF! NO MORE TAX REVENUE from them!
    It has happened in the UK and is happening there once again!
    Why do you think John Lennon lived in New York City? For the cozy environment? Nope! If he set foot on British Soil he owed BILLIONS in unpaid taxes. He didn`t like the 90% tax rate, so he fled. YES, really, 90%...

    Until SPENDING is cut? Y`all have a huge and growing problem.
    Obama`s solution: redistribute the wealth...
  27. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:00 pm
    "Funny I never thought of you as a hateful guy."
    @Cajun: I`ve seen little besides hate from him...

    Every government, in every country, is as bad or WORSE than the USA.

    You know of a "Socialist Utopia"? Tell us so we can ALL move there!

    I Know! The Netherlands!
    Oh, wait, they plan to "relocate troublesome people" to selected "scum villiages" where they`ll be forced to live with... other "scum".
    That rules out 50% of IABers moving there ;-)
  28. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    Creating revenue involves taxing, it definitively does not involve tax cuts, which we learned through the CBO this year when they published their research dating back to 1945. There is no such thing as the budget fairy & *tax cuts do not create revenue.*

    Spending is not the problem. In a down economy when no else can spend, federal stimulus is the answer to regenerate Demand. I don`t care how much cash you give Supply, if no one can buy what they make, it`s an exercise in futility.


    I don`t care about the Jahb Creaytahs throwing hissy fits about how much they get taxed. You really think they`re gonna "Go Galt" and book it because now all they can make is 5 billion instead of 5.5 billion? Tough t*tties. They`ll do business because that`s what companies do, business. If they don`t, they fail at existence and the rest of us will cheerfully wave them off into that Randian pipe dream.
  29. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm
    The piece de resistance.

    You know him, you love him, you can`t live without him! Wheel chair overcomer, WW2 winner and all around Presidential Bada$$ Franklin Delano Roosevelt!!
  30. Profile photo of botfly
    botfly Male 50-59
    616 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:16 pm
    QZ...you are an idiot
  31. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:17 pm
    Coming from you, it`s a honey sweet compliment, bottie. ;-)
  32. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    QueenZira "what matters is what you do with your wealth and privilege. Do you use it to do the morally right thing and uplift those most in need "
    If you`re done spending other people`s money...
    It`s theirs, it`s up to them, not others to decide what the right thing to do with it is. But this increasingly common resentment of the rich is unhealthy jealousy.

    I am in favor of the rich paying the same percentage in taxes on their income, that`s fair. But so should the poor. Fair is fair for everyone, right?
  33. Profile photo of botfly
    botfly Male 50-59
    616 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:37 pm
    you mean you`re worse?
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    @QZ: I paraphrase Roosevelt`s Finance Minister (or whatever his title was) about the "New Deal":

    "We spent a billion dollars, and all we got was a billion dollars further in debt" (1930`s dollars that was a LOT!)

    I`d disagree, the purpose of the "New Deal" wasn`t to END the depression but to "wait it out", eh? In that regard it worked very well.

    You`re still an idiot though.
    Spend to help end a recession or depression = OK
    SAVE during boom times = NEVER done.

    If you only do one (spend) your economy WILL COLLAPSE! Like Greece, Ireland, Spain & soon the USA!
  35. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:46 pm
    They live in a society from which they have benefited from and continue to benefit from, they owe some back to that same society that allowed them to get as far as they have.

    If everyone just decided to keep everything they made for themselves and contribute nothing back in return, you could kiss advanced modern civilization goodbye. This is not about jealousy or resentment, it`s about one segment of the population shirking it`s responsibility in the Social Contract.

    We should also be mindful of the fact that the poor cannot contribute the same because they have to worry about things rich people never have to, things like putting a roof over their heads or food on their tables.

    See them as an investment, make them upwardly mobile and we all gain in the big picture.
  36. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    5cats, you have proved time and again that you do not live in the same reality that the rest of us do, the world of empirical facts, evidence and observable outcomes. Therefore I`m done with you.

    Go lick frozen moose balls.
  37. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    @QZ: If "Paul" borrows $100 from you, and pays back $50 and NO more (calls it paid in full), then asks for another $100 from you, so he can pay "Peter" the money he owes him, what do you do?

    Hint: Greece is Paul...

    @QZ: It`s been shown here time & again: "The Rich" pay higher rates, more overall AND it started under Reagan (he closed many loopholes AND lowered taxes on the bottom 50%).
    So paying a higher rate is `fair`?
    So paying more is `fair`?
    Then demanding EVEN MORE is also fair! Very proletatiat of you, comrade!
  38. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    December 5, 2012 at 8:57 pm
    Of course, all my problems are due to everybody else and not me. I`m perfect!
  39. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 6:22 am
    It`s just money doing what it`s always done: Those with it use it to get more money and more power. Countries like the US and Canada were founded on such motives. Doesn`t make it right, though.
  40. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 6:25 am
    hmm, i personaly wont defend greece cause they havent really done much to prevent the problems they were in 5cats.. but now this. al lthe banking systems knew this was teh case in greece, but they kept lending them money, knowing that the other Euro lands would be forced to bail out greece.. They did teh same for example with Ireland, by keep inflating their debt on buildings and such.. now Ireland themselves called it quits where greece kept digging themselfs in..

    But lets not forget, it were teh big banks gthat gave em the shovels and proclaimed that there was gold in them there hills..

    thing is, there was goold in them there hills, it just wasnt for greece, it was for the banks.. and i sincerely hope that the european union will declare greece broke so teh banks aint got poo.. which will cause other countries to really hit the poocreak running.. including mine, i know.

    somehow, it is time for a reset though.
  41. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 8:15 am
    I think its funny how you guys keep saying the rich pay higher taxes than anyone else. That may apply to a select few, but the majority of the rich people in America earn their money from capital gains and pay a much lower rate than the rest of us. Then on top of that they simply take advantage of the various loopholes and exceptions in the tax system to lower their tax rate to virtually zero.
  42. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 10:21 am
    @Dragonace: If you look at the ACTUAL numbers on what "the rich" pay? It`s much higher than the middle-class. That`s NOT "in theory" it`s the actual amount!
    Which, one presumes, includes the capital gains rate is included.
    So you & @QZ are just plain wrong! Facts are: the rich ALREADY pay a higher % rate, period!
    I don`t have the spiffy charts & links handy, but can summon them!

    @Modwain: True, greedy banks & investors are involved, but they took the RISK and in this case got burned.
    However: NOW they won`t loan more money to Greece, and THAT is a huge problem! Tempt them with even higher intrest rates? That`s a doomsday solution, encouraging more greed!

    They HAVE TO cut spending, since there`s NO MORE money to be borrowed. Soon the USA will be in that situation too! By "soon" I mean eventually, it might take a decade...
  43. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 10:30 am



    Oh, I do have one saved!
    See? The left shows ACTUAL TAXES PAID while the right shows acutal income earned. It`s "upside down" from what we`re used to seeing, but the green (top 20%) PAYS apx 70% of ALL taxes gathered, while they earn just over 50% (right side) of income earned.

    The top 1%? Earn about 20% of all income, but PAY about 27%...

    Any way you slice it: The rich pay more already!

    Not "in theory" not "before loopholes" IN FACT.
  44. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    Incorrect, long term capital gains are usually taxed at a flat rate of 15%.

    Taken directly from the IRS site (link below):

    "The tax rates that apply to net capital gain are generally lower than the tax rates that apply to other income. For 2010, the maximum capital gains rate for most people is 15%. For lower-income individuals, the rate may be 0% on some or all of the net capital gain. Special types of net capital gain can be taxed at 25% or 28%."

    Ten Fact about Capital Gains and Losses
  45. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32823 posts
    December 6, 2012 at 3:36 pm
    @DragonAce: What`s incorrect?
    The OVERALL rate of taxation is 27% on the top 1%. It`s simple math! It doesn`t matter HOW MANY "loopholes" exist: the NET revenue from them = 27% of ALL TAXES collected.

    So if the Capital Gains portion of their income maxs out at 15%? That means the rest of their income is taxed at a much higher rate! Duh!

    Overall, when all is said & done: `the rich` pay higer rates period.

    Not "on paper", not "before exemptions & loopholes" AFTER all that, they pay 27% of ALL Federal taxes gathered.
  46. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 7, 2012 at 6:02 am
    The 27% tax rate is for the households that actually pay income tax on normal income, which in most cases are small business owners and the like, there are very few of the mega rich who even collect normal income (i.e. paychecks). As I said before most of the mega rich in this country get 100% of their income from capital gains, which means they pay no other taxes than the 15% on their capital gains income. Aside from that most of their other assets are held overseas in tax havens (as Romney displayed he does) so they don`t have to pay taxes on interest.
  47. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    December 7, 2012 at 6:04 am
    Basically what I`m trying to say is I think they need to change the tax code on capital gains, not normal income.

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