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Date: 12/16/12 10:20 AM

71 Responses to Fact-Based Look At Gun Control In Australia [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:18 am
    Link: Fact-Based Look At Gun Control In Australia - Passed in `96 after Mass Killings, Extremely Successful. A must read for those concerned about gun control.
  2. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:27 am
    What? Don`t no care bout facts!

    2ND AMMENDMENT! 2ND AMENDMENT!

    USA! USA! USA! USA!

    Who cares about dead first graders? It is way more important to follow a loose interpretation of something a bunch of guys wrote 250 years ago so I can stock pile weapons for the zombie apocalypse or a government overthrow that will never come.
  3. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:46 am
    Gun Control- Australian for Common Sense.
  4. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:48 am
    Yeah, let`s just throw away the constitution. We don`t need free speech or freedom of the press. Those guys didn`t know what it could lead to 236 years ago. People need government to dictate their lives, that`s the only way we can all be happy and live in a peace filled world. Guns are not the problem, people are the problem. More people are killed by cars than guns, why not ban cars? If a plane crashed on that school would you be calling for a ban on planes? Read this... http://www.gunfacts.info/
  5. Profile photo of erikthevikin
    erikthevikin Male 30-39
    757 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:49 am
    If this works why not try it with drugs?
  6. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:50 am
    Cars have nonlethal uses and it would be highly inconvenient for any modern *not* to have a car.

    Fractured Analogy Fallacy. Try again.
  7. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:51 am
    When the means for self defense is taken away you surrender your freedom as well. When the only people who have access to firearms are police/gov`t & criminals, you need to rely on the police/gov`t for protection. When the police/gov`t know they`re all you have to ensure your safety, they`re free to do anything they want knowing that you have no choice but to obey them. The ratio between freedom & security is inversely proportional.
  8. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:52 am
    Also I have never heard anyone, *anyone* talk about the total and complete banning of all guns period. That is *not* where the discussion is being held in the public arena at large, it *is* however where the discussion is being held in Wingnuttia. Thankfully most of us do not live in Wingnuttia.
  9. Profile photo of Boresome
    Boresome Male 30-39
    81 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:54 am
    so what you are saying is, because some people use there guns to harm others, everyone needs to be punished and have there firearms removed? ...
  10. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:06 am
    @whodat6484 and how many times have you won a gunfight with police? You government has toys that can wipe you out without you even noticing and you are not allowed to play with them.
  11. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:08 am
    dbss

    Ughhhhh. The same talking point drivel. Let me see if I can help you out here.

    "We don`t need free speech or freedom of the press. Those guys didn`t know what it could lead to 236 years ago."

    1. The 1st amendment gives freedom of press and speach to everyone. The 2nd amendment DOES NOT. It gives the right to bare arms to "well regulated Militia".

    2. Nothing has changed with technology that makes the 1st amendment more dangerous to the populace. It certainly has in regards to the 2nd amendment.

    "why not ban cars? ... calling for a ban on planes?"

    1. People only die from planes and guns when something goes wrong. People die from guns when they do exactly what they were designed to do.

    2. Planes and cars serve to better the lives for millions of people and they accept the rare risks. Guns don`t serve any purpose other than to kill or injure.

  12. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:12 am
    QueenZira

    "I have never heard anyone, *anyone* talk about the total and complete banning of all guns period."

    ABSOLUTELY. I own a hand gun for home protection. I believe everyone has the right to own a hand gun for personal protection or a rifle for hunting. Those weapons are not capable of doing the kind of massacres that have happened lately. THOSE are the weapons we want gone.
  13. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:17 am
    HG, I know right? My brother is majorly into hunting and heck even uber commie pinko liberal Micheal More is a card carrying member of the NRA.

    Which reminds me, even the membership of the NRA has saner views on gun control (really) than their leadership does. Their leadership is what I believe has so distorted our national conversation on guns, such as it is.
  14. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:20 am
    More people are killed and injured by cars than guns, way more. Who cares what the intent is. Guns weren`t intended to be carried into schools and used to kill kids. Guns have served people well for a couple hundred years as well.
    www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
  15. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:24 am
    @uunxx - What exactly is the point you`re trying to make? I`ve never had a gunfight with police because there never was a need to. You`re making this out to be a "one man against the world" scenario, which it is not. Once citizens aren`t allowed access to the tools needed for self defense the gov`t is free to do whatever they want knowing there`s not a damn thing you can do to stop them. Gun control isn`t about the guns, it`s about the CONTROL.
  16. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Since the constitution is so important to you and you feel that it is perfect and nothing should change it, can you name the original 10 amendments? No. Of course you can`t.

    The 7th amendment:

    "In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved"

    Now do you think they meant that verbatim forever? You think lawsuits for $20 should still get jury trials? They wrote that because they didn`t know how little the value of $20 would be in 250 years. Times change. They couldn`t see the future.
  17. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:27 am
    "Happy for us that when we find our constitutions defective and insufficient to secure the happiness of our people, we can assemble with all the coolness of philosophers and set it to rights, while every other nation on earth must have recourse to arms to amend or to restore their constitutions." --Thomas Jefferson
  18. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:28 am
    @dbss Cars kill more people than a-bombs too! Nuclear weapons actually kill 0 people yearly so we should assume they are completeley safe for private use. After all why only government should be allowed to keep them, don`t you feel your freedom is unjustly limited?
  19. Profile photo of sosueme1966
    sosueme1966 Male 40-49
    439 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:30 am
    Ummm........That graph proves nothing in terms of lowering gun violence. That`s a chart showing the rate of SUICIDES by firearms. It doesn`t even indicate that total suicides went down. Without knowing that, we have no way of knowing whether the gun control law lowered suicides, or just caused people to off themselves by a different method.
  20. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:31 am
    @whodat6484 your government can do anything anyway, unless you and your neighbors are armed with tanks, aircraft and drones.
  21. Profile photo of sosueme1966
    sosueme1966 Male 40-49
    439 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:32 am
    Guns were just as easy to get in the US 25 years ago, maybe easier, yet we have virtually none of these mass casualty events. So it gun availability hasn`t changed, how can guns be to blame for recent incidents?
  22. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:35 am
    @sosueme1966 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States
  23. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:36 am
    I was physically sick to my stomach by certain people on here (the day of the shooting) calling for more guns. Don`t get me wrong I am fine with gun ownership. My liberal brother keeps two guns in his house for protection. What sickened me was that guns were even being brought up when guns were what was used to murder these children. How can people be so damn insensitive? Give it a few days. Christ. And besides the problem is not guns it is America`s failure at recognizing and treating the mentally ill.
  24. Profile photo of airsofter1
    airsofter1 Male 18-29
    1090 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:36 am
    australia is an island. america has a massive and desolate border with canada and a massive border with mexico. it`s easier to keep guns out of an island than a country with very large borders. gun control may work elsewhere but in america it never will.
  25. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:37 am
    Really all this talk about govt overthrow is ridiculously paranoid and borderline seditious. We`re not Rwanda or Afghanistan, we`re the US where ballots solve political problems, not bullets.

    And even if all you wannabe Rambos out there were to ever have your fever dream come true, what could you possibly do against the most lavishly funded modern military in the world? Keeping in mind if they *really* wanted to, they could vaporize you with the single push of a button. Game Over.

    You are not Charles Bronson and real life is not "Death Wish", my Goddess.
  26. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:40 am
    Oh and airsofter, just an aside, Australia is a continent. Just like we are, but with more loose connections to their neighboring Islands.
  27. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:41 am
    airsofter1

    Yes. Career criminals will always be able to get guns. Career criminals are not the ones going into schools, movie theaters, and malls shooting random people.

    Criminals tend to kill other criminals. That is sad, but nowhere near the level of first graders.

    The dips.hits that kill random innocents are not importing guns across borders. They are stealing them from a relative, buying them at a gun show, or getting them off the internet.
  28. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:41 am
    it`s easier to keep guns out of an island than a country with very large borders.
    This statement is one of the most ridiculous things I`ve ever heard. Australia has 35,877 km of coastline, the great majority of which isn`t patrolled.
  29. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2398 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:41 am
    The thing that concerns me most, is the idiotic arguments the people that are pro gun come up with. which basicly makes the case for strict gunlaws.

    "it`s to protect us from a bad goverment" no THE VOTE is what protects you from that.

  30. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:43 am
    "australia is an island. america has a massive and desolate border with canada and a massive border with mexico. it`s easier to keep guns out of an island than a country with very large borders. gun control may work elsewhere but in america it never will."

    Actually, Mexico has strict gun laws, so strict that the cartels get their guns from the U.S.. Canada`s gun laws are comparatively lenient next to much of the developed world, but are still much stronger than our own.
  31. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Holygod, the guns used lately in these shootings were pistols, shotguns, and rifles. None of these are banned. The guy in this last shooting didn`t own the guns, he used his mom`s. The rifle was a semi-auto. The guy tried to buy a gun before this and was denied. He couldn`t buy a gun himself, but he still was able to shoot a bunch of people. As for the constitution, follow it, if you want to change it there is a way to constitutionally do it.
  32. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 11:59 am
    As plenty of folks have said, I don`t hear too many people in the US asking to ban all guns. At all. But plenty are asking for REASONABLE controls. For example, doesn`t it make sense to have background checks (including mental health) for anyone buying a gun? We require licensing checks for driving cars. Doesn`t it make reasonable sense that you shouldn`t be allowed to have a freakin` military grade, armor piercing, fully automatic rifle capable of killing dozens of people in, literally, seconds? Isn`t it reasonable to have a 48 hour or 72 hour wait period on ANY gun purchase?

    You can try to punch holes in Australia`s stats all you want Even the most conservative show a 35% decrease in gun death. And if you`re willing to look at other countries with gun controls/bans?! There`s no question about the results. No question.
  33. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    dbss

    "As for the constitution, follow it"

    We can outlaw lots of different types of guns WITHOUT changing the 2nd amendment. I support the right to bare arms. However no person should be able to carry weapons capable of firing hundreds of shots in a short amount of time like this latest a.sshole.

    Six shot revolvers should be adequate for personal protection. Single shot rifles should be adequate for hunting. Those two things could not effectively be used in a massacre. Outlaw everything else. What is the problem?

    Oh, right, a billion dollar industry funding the most powerful lobby in the country that effectively defeats ANY politician that even mentions gun restriction of any kind.
  34. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:23 pm
    HolyGod, you`re using reasonable points, common sense and an actual willingness to discuss the issues rather than spout pre-packed talking points supplied by the gun lobby. Apparently that just doesn`t work because it`s against god and country or something. :-( Add actual statistics in there and you may as well be killing baby Jesus. Oh well.
  35. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:25 pm
    smagboy, those laws are already in place for guns.
  36. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    Those who say the reasons pro-gun people give for being allowed to have guns are ridiculous have reasons that are just as ridiculous. All you`re saying is that if guns are illegal then we don`t have to worry about gun violence. You can`t punish the majority of law abiding gun owners for the actions a few (usually with mental health problems) who may or may not have legally obtained a weapon and used it to commit a crime.

    Since when does making something illegal stop those who want to do whatever it is that`s illegal? Driving while intoxicated is illegal yet there are still an average of 900,000 DUI/DWI arrests (nearly 1/3 are repeat offenders) per year in this country. You take away their license and some of them turn around and just drive anyway without a license or insurance. Just because you make something illegal it won`t go away.
  37. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:49 pm
    They`ll get my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead- Oh, dammit, I took an NRA pill this morning instead an ASA. Bottles look so alike. B-(
  38. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    dbss, only for gun stores--kinda. Not for Internet sales. Not for gun shows. Not for person-to-person sales. Not in all states. The current availability of guns and ammo powerful and fast enough to kill several dozen people in seconds is beyond ridiculous. But we can`t even have reasonable conversations about that. :-(
  39. Profile photo of Demstar_Aus
    Demstar_Aus Female 18-29
    179 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    VERY VERY VERY few people own guns here in Australia... and it`s notoriously difficult to get a licence for one. If you do obtain one, you have to follow strict transport and storage rules. It`s too much of a pain in the arse to bother with so people just don`t. They use knives and steel pipes to beat each other with instead.
  40. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    smagboy, these stats only show that suicide by gun went down. The gun violence basically stayed the same. These stats don`t do anything that would curb mass killings. If a guy wants to do this, he will find a way. There was a story this week of a guy in China going into a school and stabbing a bunch of kids. If only revolvers were permitted what`s to hold a criminal from getting a bunch of revolvers and doing a mass shooting. Holygod didn`t argue with stats, he argues with reason though. Guns aren`t the problem. You can still kill a drat ton of people without a gun. History has proven this. 9/11, Tim McVeigh.
  41. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    whodat6484, just look at the statistics? You can say that criminals will get guns anyway, but, dang, man, just look at the freakin` statistics?! Is it that hard?
  42. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 1:01 pm
    dbss, you`ll have to look at more stats than just that article--I could have submitted a slew of them--but the point is clear, even in this article. Gun deaths are down and there have been NO mass shootings since the law was enacted. NONE. The stats aren`t even in question on several measures.
  43. Profile photo of Selous
    Selous Male 30-39
    1197 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    it is still easy to get guns and licence in australia, not semi automatics, but plenty of legitimate quality hunting rifles of all calibres

    not walmart easy, but not difficult
  44. Profile photo of dbss
    dbss Male 30-39
    32 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

    There are some facts on that site. With the exception of gun shows you still have to go through the waiting period and guns cant transfer from person to person, they have to go through a registered gun shop. Gun shows have the FBI database and background check on site done by law enforcement. Gun deaths down in austrailia, but what about other violent crime, did it go down as well, did it go up? That graphic only focuses on guns. Suicide by gun went down, did other ways to kill yourself go up?
  45. Profile photo of sosueme1966
    sosueme1966 Male 40-49
    439 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Thanks for the link, uunxx. It proved my point that nothing remotely like what happened yesterday happened 25 years ago.
  46. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2308 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 2:14 pm
    Isn`t it against the law to commit a crime? I don`t understand how crimes could still happen? Why isn`t the focus on how culture in the US is broken. The root of the liberty argument is that everyone is responsible to not infringe on others liberties. The problem has been and always will be people who don`t respect others. Also, it kills me that everyone who wants something banned or regulated, wants someone else to do it for them. Run for office and make it happen yourself. Stop demanding that someone else do something to change the world to make it more to your liking. It`s no different than religious zealots or really any type of zealot.
  47. Profile photo of scheckydamon
    scheckydamon Male 60-69
    675 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 5:10 pm
    25 years murder free in Kennesaw, GA. March 82 saw law passed that EVERY head of household had to have a gun. The vermin and loonies have left the town.
    Morton Grove ,IL which the Kennesaw law was an answer to, has seen violent crime increase to at or just below the national average but an overall increase from before the ordinance passed banning personal firearms. Also the populations are more even now that 1982.
    FBI 2010 Kennesaw stats:
    "The city violent crime rate for Kennesaw in 2010 was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 85.16% and the city property crime rate in Kennesaw was lower than the national property crime rate average by 46.46%."

    Come see us here in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains and see what gun ownership does for the crime rates.
  48. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3145 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 5:38 pm
    Oh, so you want to ban (some or all) guns, eh?

    How`s that working out for the drugs?
    I believe I can still go find someone to buy crack from, but that`s illegal right?

    Criminals and the insane are going to find a way to get the guns, no matter what. Just like, from what I`ve seen, most IABers are going to find a way to get marijuana.

    I saw some stupid stat that said something along the lines of no massacre shooting has ever been stopped by a civilian gun.
    Well, of course not! Most massacres happen at "gun-free zones". What law abiding citizen is going to break the law?
  49. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 6:04 pm
    DuckBoy87

    "I believe I can still go find someone to buy crack from"

    You really think you could? You think it is that easy? I wouldn`t have a clue where to go or who to talk to. However I can pull up 30 gun shops on my phone and get turn by turn directions. Comparing the two is asinine.

  50. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3145 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 7:01 pm
    HolyGod, You don`t how to/can`t find something, ergo, nobody in the whole wide world can!

    Look, the fact is that if there is something out there that somebody wants, they will find a way to get it. It doesn`t matter if it`s drugs, guns, or porn; they will get it.

    And really, it`s no duh that you can find directions to a LEGAL establishment. The question of how easily obtainable an item is is not the dispute; it`s that if someone wants it, they will find a way to get it.
  51. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 7:20 pm
    What does the "it wouldn`t have happened if the school was armed" idiots have to say about the Fort Hood shooting that happened at the most populous U.S. military installation in the world?

    This issue is not about guns it is about America`s failure at recognizing and treating the mentally ill.
  52. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 7:41 pm
    DuckBoy87

    "HolyGod, You don`t how to/can`t find something, ergo, nobody in the whole wide world can!"

    Huh? I never said anything remotely like that. I was asking you straight up if you thought you could get crack. Then I told you I probably couldn`t. That in no way means I think nobody can get it. Obviously there are lots of people that can. Maybe you can. Maybe your mom is a crack whore and she knows johns that like 20 something males. Who knows? I`m just going with the assumption that most people in this country have no idea how to get crack.

  53. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 7:42 pm
    DuckBoy87

    "The question of how easily obtainable an item is is not the dispute; it`s that if someone wants it, they will find a way to get it."

    So let me see if I understand. You are saying don`t make certain guns illegal or restricted because it doesn`t matter, if someone wants them they will get them anyway? Well hell, by that rationale why make anything illegal? Might as well sell heroin at walmart, I mean if someone wants to get it they can anyway right?
  54. Profile photo of securitywyrm
    securitywyrm Male 18-29
    89 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 9:04 pm
    Who would have thought that a dramatic increase in mental health care spending (Source: http://www.aihw.gov.au/) would dramatically reduce violent crime and suicide. Correlation does not equal causation.
  55. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:15 pm
    So, you libs think that if we ban guns, there won`t be any more gun violence, right? Well, we banned drugs. How`s that working? We banned illegal immigration. How`s that working?

    First, prove you can keep illegal drugs and illegal immigrants out of the US, and THEN maybe I`ll believe that you can keep illegal guns out, too. (BTW, drugs can be detected by dogs; guns can`t.)

    Till then, I`m keeping mine. If you want to try to take it, though, you`re welcome to try.
  56. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    December 16, 2012 at 10:25 pm
    What does the "it wouldn`t have happened if the school was armed" idiots have to say about the Fort Hood shooting that happened at the most populous U.S. military installation in the world?
    markust, I believe that this question has been asked and answered. However, since liberals seem to be incapable of learning, I will repeat the answer here. Members of the armed services in non-combat zones are PROHIBITED from carrying weapons unless specifically assigned to guard duty, which is nearly always at the perimeter of the base, or as military police. It was the MPs, not the regular soldiers, who stopped the Ft. Hood shooting, but not before the gunman killed 13 and wounded 29 unarmed -- correction, DISARMED -- people.
  57. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 12:18 am
    OldOllie

    "So, you libs think that if we ban guns, there won`t be any more gun violence, right?"

    No. Of course not moron. There will just be less of it.

    I do not want to ban guns. I want to ban the kinds of guns and accessories that allow an individual to shoot off hundreds of rounds in a matter of minutes. I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why you feel those are necessary. I also want to get rid of gun sales online and gun sales at gun shows. Keep your hand guns and hunting rifles.
  58. Profile photo of Sistarose
    Sistarose Female 30-39
    373 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 3:37 am
    All I know is I was not a first in full support of the gun laws when they were pushed through, I felt they were a knee jerk reaction. Now years later, nothing fell apart, crime did not spiral out of control with the only guns in the hands of criminals and life went on.
  59. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3318 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 5:07 am
    I disagree with this, it claimed that the Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi study was flawed because the structural breaks could just be lagging. "the Leigh and Neill study appears the most reliable of the ones conducted." But if you read the reports, the Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi study used one univariate time series model and four seperate parsimonious multivariate time series models.
    As opposed to a the two seperate univariate time series models the Leigh and Neill study uses. The reason this is bad is because make it makes it difficult to rule out any other competing hypotheses for why gun death rates changed.
    They state in the Leigh and Neill study that they did this to avoid interference from endogeneity but "including such controls would...reduce the number of state-year combinations... due to missing observations in some cases." But missing observations and omitting variables causes interference from endogeneity!

    AKA: Biased stats!
  60. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 5:33 am
    OldOllie, you are a perfect example of why America needs to invest more in treating the mentally ill.
  61. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 6:43 am
    I want to ban the kinds of guns and accessories that allow an individual to shoot off hundreds of rounds in a matter of minutes.
    So... everything except a musket? Seriously, a decent handgun has an average capacity of 13 (12 + 1) and can be emptied in seconds. Even a skilled shooter with a pump action shotgun will be able to fire 100 rounds in a few minutes.
  62. Profile photo of SpermNinja81
    SpermNinja81 Male 30-39
    459 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 6:59 am
    One of the very few things the Howard government did right, in my opinion.

    But one key factor in the reduction of firearm violence/suicide in Australia since Port Arthur was the buyback scheme. Outlawing the weapons involved in these crimes isn`t going to be enough by far. I believe the article stated 650-odd thousand weapons were sold back to the government, as well as any that have been handed in during the numerous amnesties since 1996. with these weapons destroyed, and no new ones being made or imported, it`s inevitable that weapons are going to be harder to find. Are any of these weapons still out there? undoubtedly, but there`s a hell of a lot less of them, and serious penalties for anyone caught with them.
    This is going to be the biggest hurdle for the US to overcome, given the massive amount of firearms ALREADY legally/responsibly owned as well as Illegal/unregistered weapons on the streets, this and the attitude of gun enthusiasts, and the political power of the
  63. Profile photo of SpermNinja81
    SpermNinja81 Male 30-39
    459 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 7:22 am
    Cont...

    NRA/gun lobbys. buying back that many weapons will undoubtedly cost a hell of a lot of money,and be another huge burden on the American economy. As already mentioned by other posters, more funding and better access to Mental health facilities for the disturbed, as well as tightening the licensing requirements might also have SOME impact on the amount of gun crime.It`s starting to become apparent that the media might need to rethink the way they report these crimes, also. And then there`s always Chris Rock`s idea of making every bullet cost $5000 (no more innocent bystanders!). None of these measures will stop gun crime.. but, what`s the alternative? do nothing? how many more of these incidents do we have to hear about? No disrespect to those killed intended, but I`m becoming numb to these shootings, and the attitude of anyone defending the weapons that are designed only to take HUMAN life.
  64. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 7:44 am
    Mandatory gun buy back = From my could dead hands. How about they start buying those guns they sold to the Mexican mafia first?? I`m sure they had nothing but the best intentions when they did that....
  65. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 7:47 am
    As for laws the guiy that did this those guns were under LAW illegal for him to have.
  66. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 7:48 am
    And then there`s always Chris Rock`s idea of making every bullet cost $5000

    Bullets can be reloaded this is why you need people who own guns to be in charge of gun laws.
  67. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 8:52 am
    McGovern1981

    "And then there`s always Chris Rock`s idea of making every bullet cost $5000. Bullets can be reloaded this is why you need people who own guns to be in charge of gun laws."

    I don`t get what that means. I can only assume you don`t get it. What he was saying is that if bullets cost $5,000 there would be no such thing as an innocent bystander. There certainly wouldn`t be school massacres like this either. Nobody could afford it. however you could still defend yourself as that would be worth the price.
  68. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 8:53 am
    McGovern

    "As for laws the guiy that did this those guns were under LAW illegal for him to have."

    Yes. But if the gun was illegal period his mom wouldn`t have had it either. Then he might not have had access to one.
  69. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 10:04 am
    @HolyGod

    Shell casings you can reprime them, put more powder in them and put a new bullet in them. That would negate that idea and everyone would do it.

    Yes. But if the gun was illegal period his mom wouldn`t have had it either. Then he might not have had access to one.

    If we outlawed tobacco we`d have way less cancer but most people don`t like the thought of the government putting us in a bubble for our own saftey though.
  70. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 11:17 am
    If we outlawed tobacco we`d have way less cancer
    To further your point - drugs are illegal, so surely there exists no drug-related crime?

    The logic fails. Drug use hasn`t even fallen significantly as a percentage of the population since being outlawed. Why would we expect the outlawing of guns to be any different?
  71. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    December 17, 2012 at 9:56 pm
    McGovern1981

    "If we outlawed tobacco we`d have way less cancer but most people don`t like the thought of the government putting us in a bubble for our own safety though."

    Here is a HUGE distinction between the two. If you choose to smoke tobacco you put YOURSELF at risk. If you choose to own a gun you put OTHERS at risk.

    I have no problem with people taking dangerous risks that only affect them. To me that is personal responsibility.

    Tobacco never killed a room full of 1st graders.

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