Another Mass Shooting, This Time At A Grade School

Submitted by: fancylad 4 years ago in

Multiple people, including children, have been killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Story developing.
There are 261 comments:
Male 40,739
@MattPrince: I`m saying the UK`s gun crimes went UP after the firearms ban, not down. Now UK`s criminals deal with drugs AND illegal guns, so the criminals still have weapons! And they KNOW the average citizen is defenceless...

A disarmed population at the mercy of armed criminals... nice! Sounds like Canada!
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Male 17,511
AGit: I`m sure his mother had no worry that her child would kill her. Something must`ve set him off, maybe in the next few days or weeks we might find out what that was.

CNN was reporting that Adam tried to buy a handgun Tuesday and was refused. So that part of the existing gun laws worked.

The fact remains, that gun free zones are where mass murders go to commit their crimes because they know they won`t meet anyone with a firearm that will stop them before they decide they`re done.
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Male 15,832
[quote]Most other countries manage perfectly well without them. Guns that is...and maybe even Yanks.[/quote]
So, how did that gun control work out for these people?



Maybe next time we Yanks will just stay home and let you guys work things out for yourselves.
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Male 7,774
If these Yanks are so insistent on their right to bear arms, then lock the doors and leave them to it. Most other countries manage perfectly well without them. Guns that is...and maybe even Yanks.
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Male 1,360
could someone shoot the spammer.
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Male 12
my heart is very heavy and sad..
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Male 1,360
Every 5 year old and up should be able to carry a gun to school so this kind of tragedy would not happen...
I am so glad to have lived in "gun free zones", I wish CJ and 5cats and other boulshhitters the loss of a loved one by "guns who don`t kill" .
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Male 15,261
This is so Fcked up
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Male 995
"More proof that criminals will get guns regardless of more restrictive gun laws."

On the contrary. Either the mother was a criminal and got hold of the guns legally or she was law-abiding and even so, with weapons to defend herself against criminals, was killed by a criminal.
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Male 17,511
As it turns out, more gun laws wouldn`t have stopped Adam Lanza. The guns he used were bought by his mother and he apparently killed her to get to them.

More proof that criminals will get guns regardless of more restrictive gun laws.
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Male 995
"there`s all the evidence you need to prove that gun-free zones are nothing but deathtraps."

Basically the rest of the world disagrees. Don`t get me wrong, I don`t intend to argue, as I know that in no way could I change some of your views (the lame demagoguery and total lack of rational thought that`s displayed on the t-shirt picture posted by aj is quite a good example), however the news reaching my end is that the guns used were legally owned by the mother. Is this true? If so, now what happens to the "criminals use illegal weapons and we have to arm ourselves to the teeth with legal weapons to defend ourselves by blowing their brains out" justification that many are eager to wave around as soon as something like this happens?
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Female 3,726
""@AJ guns don`t kill people, people don`t kill people, god kills people.""

WHAT?
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Male 2,220
@AJ guns don`t kill people, people don`t kill people, god kills people.

@5Cats - no UK is not more violent than USA, the stats are blurred by the definition of violence. Look at the homicide rate (a more comparable statistic) and you`ll see its a lot safer on this side of the pond. And for the purpose of clarity ~ I`m not telling you what to do about your blessed gun rights, just pointing out the flaw in your `facts`.

@OldOllie - I think you need to point that intellectual honesty at yourself. Mass murder of this type usually happens at the point of greivance, the perpetrator often does not intend to survive. Have a look at Mark Essex, Maurice Clemmons, Lamar Moore. GFZ have kids, thus they generate more media attention.
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Male 10,338
Just trying to get a rise LIK.
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Female 3,726
MJ`s stats on mass killings from the last 30 years.

Oh give me a break on your god thing AJ. This guy had a history of mental issues. It was not drating god`s will for these kids to die. Some drating deranged monster who couldn`t cope with life decided to take their lives and there`s nothing you, I nor your magical man in the sky could do about it. Stop praying and be proactive!
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Male 10,338
spermninja: It`s in response to people who don`t live on this continent calling for us to ban firearms. If they hadn`t mentioned it, we wouldn`t respond. Simple.
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Male 10,338

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Male 459
drating hell. Some of you guys have made comment after comment in support of your right to own weapons,but next to nothing on what these families are going through. Your precious rifles and handguns are more important to you then what has happened to these kids?
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Male 40,739
The thing in the trunk was NOT an "assault rifle" OK?
It LOOKED like the military version, but it was NOT the same!
For Heaven`s sake! It`s apples and oranges people!

To buy a weapon in Canada? I couldn`t do it.
#1 I`m on meds for depression (NO legal guns for me!)
#2 I`d need permission from my past girlfriends... and also from my ex-wife who I haven`t spoken to for 15+ years! (3/4 of my ex-gf`s would say I`m a nice guy, fyi..)
#3 I`d need a membership in a local shooting range & etc...
These things would cots $1,000+ to get.

However:
To Illegally own a weapon? All I`d need is $500 bucks and a tiny bit of luck.

So what did "laws" do to protect these children who died? NOTHING! ZIP ZILCH NIL NADA!

Still: the liberal left will milk this for all it`s worth, at the same time they`ll lay the groundwork for the NEXT tragic event.

Sickening.
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Male 40,739
Now CNN is cutting off the reasonable person, and persuing the "assault rifle" theme.

"It could fire off 100 rounds" WTF?
IT WAS LEFT IN THE TRUNK! It was NOT used in the killings!

Piers Morgan is a world-class ass-hat.
The NRA guy is still managing to make his point, dispite the opposition and lies of the "moderator".

Dan Gross is now harping on the "guns = death" motiff...

Watching the "left wing" make hay on the bodies of children is just plain sickening...
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Female 2,761
@CrakrJak- same here. I`ve never felt so deeply saddened by anything like this. 20 kindergarteners. 20 five year olds. 20 families shattered. I can`t help but cry.
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Male 40,739
News says: There was an "assault rifle" in the back of the killer`s car.
#1: It`s NOT an "assualt rifle" it`s a "semi-automatic weapon". One trigger pull = one shot. Assault rifles are full-auto: 1 trigger pull = 20 shots. A distinction the "liberal media" utterly FAILS to comprehend.
#2 He left it IN his car! Shows how dangerous it is... he didn`t even bother to take it with him.
#3 Gun Free Zone: Yeah, how well did THAT work?

More laws =\= Safety.

Watching the MSM "spin" yet another tragic event to further their "viewpoint" is just... par for the course.
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Male 40,739
Actually I take that back:
I`m listening to some non-nice individual crying about how "guns kill people" and preaching the religion of "gun control".
SICKENING!
For Heaven`s sake: the gun is a tool, people have been killing since the dawn of time, guns are just another way of doing it.
This moron is going on and on about how "evil guns" kill people, but he`s living in "lotusland" if he thinks a new "gun law" will take guns OUT of the hands of CRIMINALS.
Just how STUPID are these people?
He`s claiming a relationship between "low gun ownership" and low guncrime... FALSE! In fact the OPPOSITE is true.
It`s the "loonie left" who`s first to politicise this, and by far the worst offenders.

Conn`s `tough laws` did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent this, keep that in mind. "Gun laws" punish the lawful persons, not the criminals...
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Male 40,739
My urge to argue trivial points has vanished...
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Male 40,739
Dear Lord: Last I heard there was 2 dead, now it`s 28? I guess I should turn on the news... (CNN and BBC World) This is horror beyond imagination...

Puts things into perspective eh? Just how fragile our existance really is.
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Male 10,855
Even I`m unable to distance myself emotionally from situtation.

Just imagining the sorrow the parents will have to endure, knowing their kids won`t be there to unwrap presents. All because of a madman.

I`ve already wept several times today thinking about it. My heart goes out to them.
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Female 1,743
I was the same way, Davy. My daughter is one and I hugged her tight, even though she doesn`t know what`s going on, I still can`t believe how anyone could be mentally unstable enough to hurt an innocent child. Kids are so precious and they are the most vulnerable of humans. There is no worse act.

It makes me angry that he took his own life. What a cowardly way to get out of an act like that.
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Male 12,138
[quote]This isn`t the time to argue politics, This is a time for prayer, grieving and giving solace.[/quote]
True Crakrjak. When I came home from work today, I hugged my 6-year old so damn tight she asked me what was wrong. Of course, I told her "Nothing. I just love you so very much." Had to turn away so she couldn`t see I was crying.
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Female 2,674
"Do you lefties understand how much of a nightmare it would be to ban ALL GUNS in America?"

Who`s saying all guns should be banned in America? Pretty much no one. More regulations doesn`t mean ban all guns.
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Male 40,739
[quote]I also love how you say "MSM", which by earlier definitions from you is anything but Fox News.[/quote]
@cobrakiller: It`ll be lost in this 10+ page clusterdrat, but I`ll reply:
idk if FoxNews is in the MSM or not, it`s debatable, since I don`t watch it I don`t know.
The MSM is: established TV and Newspapers. And their `cable spin-offs` like MSNBC or even CNN (Time-Warner iirc).
Local TV, local newspapers and the internet are NON-MSM sources.

@USAF27 is correct: violent crime in Britian is WAY higher than USA or Canada, more laws =\= safety...
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Male 3,060
@LillianDulci
This is a comment from like, five pages before. Sorry. I don`t keep up with IAB very well.

I never said I wasn`t for locking up guns. I think responsibility is issue number one when it comes to guns. Also, just for the record, I am also against the ownership of automatic weapons.
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Male 17,511
Sorry, I had to bail out of this discussion earlier.

After I heard 20 kindergarten age kids died, couldn`t help but break down in tears.

This isn`t the time to argue politics, This is a time for prayer, grieving and giving solace.
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Male 15,832
@MattPrince, your strawman argument notwithstanding, if you have even the slightest shred of intellectual honesty, there`s all the evidence you need to prove that gun-free zones are nothing but deathtraps.

You can choose bare your throat to the wolves and trust them not to rip it out, but our children deserve better.
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Male 27
@Crabes

That guy is spot on. If I were a tinfoil hat kind of guy like some of the weirdos on here, I would start to wonder if the media somehow orchestrates these awful events. It certainly feeds the masses` hunger for hatred, terror, and self-righteousness.
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Male 1,284
Charlie Brooker`s Newswipe 25/03/09 Forensic Psychiatrist explain how to create more mass murderer
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Male 13,630
mattprince - got me wrong I was trying to example
How easy it is to get anything nowadays.
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Male 27
Jesus you guys are all mouthbreathers. Stop overgeneralizing the issues and running to the fringe sides. There is a MASSIVE difference between assault rifles and guns in general. Do you lefties understand how much of a nightmare it would be to ban ALL GUNS in America? Animal populations would be screwed up, there would be further divisions and hatred throughout the country, and people would resist. I get the feeling that a bunch of you twats in here simply don`t know anything about guns and have never used one for legal purposes. Why don`t you do us all a favor and before you continue arguing about something you know nothing about, go take a gun safety course and go practice at a range or even go hunting.
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Male 13,630
Know what u mean mate
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Male 2,220
@ferdyfred. bs. most people who do what you suggest are going to be rolled or reported pdq, but good work, if someone is thinking of doing that they now know where to go!

Old ollie you really are a delusional mean person.

The rest of the pro gunners at least make some attempt at sense. You on the other hand.. lets have a responsible citizen with a pump action shotgun in each classroom.

Of course you cant tell a responsible citizen from a nutjob... until they pull the trigger, but hey-ho.


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Male 14,331
CT law....

"It is unlawful to sell or permanently transfer a handgun to any person who is forbidden to possess a handgun, or to a person under 21."

The shooter was 20 there`s your laws. see for yourself here
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Male 17
@Ferdy
Absolutely non taken, don`t worry.
Tragedy is probably the right word, I just do not understand the encouragement to arm more people, probably has everything to do with growing up in the UK though.
Thoughts go out to those suffering.
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Female 2,674
"I had hoped nobody would politicize this tragedy, but I see we already are."

The problem is, people say "don`t politicize it" but it`s necessary to do so if we want any changes. We can wait a little while until people start to forget about this incident, because we don`t want to politicize it. But then something else will happen, so we have to wait a little while longer. And it goes on and on, more people mass killing other people with guns and nothing changing. When do we get to start advocating for better laws that will reduce the amount of mass murders?
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Male 7,774
What is it with you f*****g Yanks?
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Male 13,630
Deffo last post on this
Jimjam, your a kiddo, no disrespect there,
I was one once. Ive been in front line shooting crap and car bombs, before your was born,I have seen so many bad things and know a fair few nasty sorts, which I keep at a fair arms length. Fact remains you can get pretty much anything if you have the cash, and know where to go to. Thats kinda the ring to the whole tragedy guns and such nowadays are so available to the ones who know, an to be fair it doesnt take long to find someone. Life and times tis all I can say, aint gong to get better young un
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Male 13,630
Jimjamjeroo
Innocent chap, last post on this
Im done,
basically grab a hoodie, get some cash, go to the main street dive,look for the hard feckers at last orders, chuck em a 20, one of them will give you a grilling. throw another 20, and give a half hour or so you will be directed to (usually) a BMW/Merc and pass the money over. want a first perspective experience PM me and I`ll take you there
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Male 10,855
[quote] I literally balled my eyes out this morning thinking about those parents and I haven`t cried in ten years.[/quote]

THIS is when you know it`s a bad time to draft policy. You`re so emotionally charged you can`t think straight. The tunnel vision is so severe you won`t consider alternative solutions.

[quote] I see we already are[/quote]

Well me and gun rights advocates are saying SLOW DOWN, before you enact policy that amounts to nothing more than a sugar pill.
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Male 15,832
[quote]I had hoped nobody would politicize this tragedy, but I see we already are.[/quote]
The liberals started it, as they ALWAYS do, with renewed calls for more gun control (as if that has EVER worked).
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Male 10,338
I hate to have this be politicized, but when people start off saying "BAN GUNS ZOMG!" I get twitchy.

I`m out too guys. This is a horrible day for the world.
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Male 15,832
[quote]if I stepped out of my front door in search of a fire arm I wouldn`t find one, I wouldn`t know were to start.[/quote]
Neither did 6 million Jews. What`s your point?
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Male 3,445
"Yes. A serviceman cannot carry a weapon on base unless it is part of his job on base."

That doesn`t make it a gun free zone. That just means he isn`t allowed to have one, just like the kids in a school wouldn`t be allowed to have one in Ollie`s scenario in which the teachers have guns.
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Male 15,832
[quote]The constitution IS NOT PERFECT.[/quote]
Right, they should have appended to each article and amendment the words, "...and we really f***ing MEAN IT!!!"
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Male 13,630
Im out too,
Its gone off on a tangent, and what really ought to be mentioned is the loss of so many little kids, and innocent folk at this time of year.
which has been missed so far.
especially so close to Christmas, the parents who have losses will never recover.
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Male 15,832
[quote]You think he chose to do it at a school because he knew nobody would shoot back? His parents worked there. He shot them and he also killed himself. Why would he give a damn if someone had pulled a gun and stopped him after he`d managed to kill 10 people instead of 20?

The guy almost certainly had mental health problems. [/quote]
He may have been crazy, but he wasn`t stupid. These multiple-victim public shootings ALWAYS happen in gun-free zones.
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Male 17
@ferdy
I live in Middlesbrough and if I stepped out of my front door in search of a fire arm I wouldn`t find one, I wouldn`t know were to start.

Likewise I`m sure guns aren`t being offered around in public in Birmingham.

My point is you can`t pop down to the high street and visit the gun shop like across the pond.

I seriously do not understand to increase rather than decrease the amount of civilians who carry a firearm, it`s ridiculous.
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Male 13,630
HolyGod
Take care dude, I know what you mean
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Male 2,357
[quote]Can I drive a tank to work? Can I own a rocket launcher? Where so you draw the line?[/quote]
The same logic can be applied in the contrary, though. At which point do we draw the line when banning something?

It seems to me that the criteria being used to condemn firearms is that they have an enhanced capacity to rapidly kill or maim a vast number of people. However, if I drive my truck into a parade at 75MPH then I have also satisfied those requirements. At which point do we choose not to ban something because of it`s capacity to extend harm?

Usually this is where someone says "but guns are made to kill people" or that "guns only serve one purpose". Considering the est. 200 million firearms in the US, this cannot possibly be true. Otherwise, homicide rates would surely be much higher.
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Male 9,754
I`m out of this conversation. I`m too emotional.

I have two small children in elementary school. I literally balled my eyes out this morning thinking about those parents and I haven`t cried in ten years.

I had hoped nobody would politicize this tragedy, but I see we already are.

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Male 13,630
``The fact that pretty much anyone can get hold of a gun is ridiculous. ``
Take you 3 miles into Birmingham - you got hundred quid you got one, it is that easy mate
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Male 9,754
Cajun247

Of course not. However I don`t see how the phrase "guns don`t kill people, people kill people" is ANY different than "atomic bombs don`t kill people, people kill people"

Do you?
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Male 2,988
"Can I drive a tank to work? Can I own a rocket launcher? Where so you draw the line?"

If it has explosive rounds you cant shoot it.

If you can`t carry it by hand you can`t shoot it.

Bam, theres a start for you. So no tanks, rpgs, or mounted turrets etc.
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Male 17
So likening an extremely unstable, war torn Israel to the mighty USA makes it viable?

The fact that pretty much anyone can get hold of a gun is ridiculous.
Your solution being add more guns to the mix and see who draws quickest is absolutely moronic.
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Male 96
@mattprince...I am on a bunch of poo....however, as you can see...that was a quote from the media!! Right or wrong is up for "debate".
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Male 13,630
auburnjunky
I can see where your coming from,
and I respect that, Im just looking on the negative side of life, whatever you do, some fecker will better it, I really ought to look on the positive. But looking at the news, even though Im a few odd hundred miles across the pond, it affected me quite bad. I can understand you stance
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Male 10,338
"Can I drive a tank to work?" Not sure. You can own one though.

"Can I own a rocket launcher?" Yes.

"Where so you draw the line?" I personally think the line that is set now is fine.
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Male 10,855
[quote] Atomic bombs don`t kill people, bad people do. So let`s legalize atomic bombs.[/quote]

Reducto ad abaurdium, no one is advocating this.
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Male 9,754
AJ

Can I drive a tank to work? Can I own a rocket launcher? Where so you draw the line?

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Male 10,338
No no HolyGod. We should be as armed as possible. It is not practical to hold an Atom Bomb as self defense, but we should be able to carry all weapons.
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Male 9,754
AJ

"Thomas Jefferson felt that the regular populace should be as well armed as the army, to deter the government from using the army against said populace."

ABSOLUTELY. That is my point. The whole point of the second amendment is to defend a foreign invasion or to fight the government if necessary. Neither of which is possible now.

Times have changed. The constitution IS NOT PERFECT. The men that wrote it WERE NOT PERFECT. That is why we`ve had to add amendments.
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Male 13,630
Its a terrible tragedy, and I hope (and Im nay religious) that there maybe some entity out there which will make the perps life an eternal hell
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Male 10,338
Maybe so Ferdy. Maybe so.
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Male 14,331
[quote]I find it hard to fathom the founding fathers supporting any american individual to have that power.[/quote]

When did you get to speak to them?
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Male 15,832
[quote]Yes, when it took two minutes per shot to load a musket. I fully support everyone owning a musket. [/quote]
The musket was the standard issue weapon for the army. However, the typical citizen-farmer owned a long rifle which was superior to the musket in range, accuracy, killing power, and rate of fire. Thus, there is no precedent in our founding that says the people`s arms should be inferior in capability to those issued to the military.
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Male 13,630
auburnjunky
Not wishing to argue with you, but you could give every American citizen a Uzi,
The bad guys would get grenades, it would just escalate sir
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Male 10,338
"Yes, when it took two minutes per shot to load a musket."

Thomas Jefferson felt that the regular populace should be as well armed as the army, to deter the government from using the army against said populace.

That isn`t possible now, but we should be as armed as possible.
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Male 9,754
Mcgovern

"Guns have been available since the countries founding"

Yes, when it took two minutes per shot to load a musket. I fully support everyone owning a musket. The guy in connecticut fired over 100 shots. I find it hard to fathom the founding fathers supporting any american individual to have that power.
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Male 13,630
rickwhite
Pretty much what Ive tried to explain, but you did it much better
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Male 10,338
"Was Fort Hood a gun free zone"

Yes. A serviceman cannot carry a weapon on base unless it is part of his job on base.
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Male 15,832
@Jimjamjeroo Apparently you didn`t see AJ`s post with the picture of the Israeli school teacher before you posted your idiotic comment.
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Male 9,754
AJ

I don`t get that picture or what it has to do with what I said. I said "missiles, bombs, and bio or chemical weapons, NONE of which are going to be defended by a gun."

Do you disagree? What does a well armed militia defend us from now (vs 250 years ago)? Invading forces? Our military is now more than capable of defending this entire country. Our government? Guns do little to combat missiles, jets, and tanks.
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Male 10,338
@Prussia: An increase in gun ownership is different than increasing the number of guns.

I think if every able-bodied American had a gun, America would be one of the safest countries in the world.
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Male 151
Gun control is irrelevant. The cat is out of the bag. The guns are out there. If you have the cash, you have a gun.

Adding more guns to the equation will just make it worse. Turning a classroom or movie theater, or mall food court into a wild west show is not a solution! Dear god!

Don`t people realize!?!?

There are NO solutions with this.
No one is safe.
All you can do is live life, and hope you aren`t one of the unlucky ones.
You cannot, and never will be, able to control someone`s heart and mind. And that is the source of these events; someone`s heart and mind is buggered.

And we will never know the true motive for these things.

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Male 14,331
Guns have been available since the countries founding but school shootings are a relatively new problem yet people think guns are the problem.

As for the "well regulated" argument this country gained it`s independence without a well regulated army.
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Male 646
"He may have been crazy, but he wasn`t stupid. These multiple-victim public shootings ALWAYS happen in gun-free zones."

Was Fort Hood a gun free zone?
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Male 13,630
OldOllie
Odd that since gun licenses of certain firearms were banned in the UK more murders are committed with the damn things, well not odd really, basically law abided gun holders were ordered to hand their arms in, and the illegal feckers just went and played merry, and still do

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Male 646
Right AuburnJunky, because we live in Israel where everyone has to serve in the military(and subjected to psychological screenings) and once they leave, are restricted to only 1 pistol and 50 rounds of ammo a year.
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Male 3,445
`Nobody has said "increase the number of guns".`

I give you this quote:

"The one thing missing in that equation is that woman owning a gun so she could have saved her life from that murderer"

- Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the NRA, in response to the Kansas City Chiefs murder-suicide.
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Male 2,988
I think we can all agree drat everything
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Male 15,832
[quote]You think he chose to do it at a school because he knew nobody would shoot back? His parents worked there. He shot them and he also killed himself. Why would he give a damn if someone had pulled a gun and stopped him after he`d managed to kill 10 people instead of 20?

The guy almost certainly had mental health problems. [/quote]
He may have been crazy, but he wasn`t stupid. These multiple-victim public shootings ALWAYS happen in gun-free zones.
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Male 15,832
[quote]I have no answer sir[/quote]
Of course, you don`t.
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Male 10,338
Nobody has said "increase the number of guns".

We are simply defending the constitution from "ZOMG SOMEONE DIED BAN ALL GUNS!"
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Male 15,832
[quote]In your fantasy world maybe (and all of the armed teachers running to the rescue could very well result in the wrong person being labeled as the gunman and being shot and killed despite being innocent).[/quote]
And in your nightmare world, NOBODY comes to save the children, and the are all slaughtered.

Oh, wait, that`s not a nightmare; that`s the reality that liberal gun-control advocates have created.
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Male 14,331
[quote]sick that the solution proposed by so many to combat the highest number of gun murders in the world is to increase the number of guns. [/quote]

You live in El Salvador now?!?!?!
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Male 10,338
"NONE of which are going to be defended by a gun."


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Male 13,630
FoolsPrussia
Fecks sake,
what the feck is up with the world, thought it may have been just a random nutjob,
He killed his mother, and a load of little kids
jesus, I despair of life dude I really do
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Male 17
@OldOllie Arming teachers?
Are you serious?

Because the solution is to have dangerous weapons surrounding children everyday.
What`s to stop said armed teachers from going on a rampage?

It`s a nervous breakdown away from being right here again.

Americans and your guns, crikey.
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Male 10,338
"you still are ignoring the "well regulated" part."

...and if I respond to the regulated part, you will respond with "@auburn, you still are ignoring the "well" part".

Not playing this game.
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Male 3,445
"Have they discovered who this nutter is yet?"

The 20 year old son of one of the teachers. He killed her.
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Male 9,754
AJ

"This statement referred to the populace, not the ARMY. ARMY is different than MILITIA."

No. Not the entire populace. The percentage of the populace that trained as a citizen army.

This was written in the 1700s when the American army could not defend the whole country. If a town in the frontier wanted to be protected they needed a militia. Well, we have a national defense now that can protect every citizen from an incursion from foreign forces and police departments that can defend against other threats. The only way an American is threatened form outside forces is with missiles, bombs, and bio or chemical weapons, NONE of which are going to be defended by a gun.
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Male 10,338

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Male 646
"No, you`ve just proven that gun control doesn`t work."

- Right, because a trained paramilitary group armed with automatic machine guns would have been easier to control, and not just steamrolled everyone, including the reduced govt. military, who got in their way.
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Male 13,630
Have they discovered who this nutter is yet?
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Female 2,674
"The point was you can kill more than one person with a rock which you said you couldn`t. "

In reality, you cannot kill multiple people in a very short period of time with a rock. People will notice you have a catapult before you can use it. Just throwing a bunch of rocks at people isn`t going to result in many deaths (if any) and would be much easier to avoid than bullets. The most effective way to kill with a rock without using something obvious like a bullet would be to bash someone`s head with a rock, and everyone around you would know what you`re doing.
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Male 13,630
klaxor
Just going by the mass shootings which hits the news over her sir
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Male 3,285
@auburn, you still are ignoring the "well regulated" part. Random people owning guns are not well regulated, or indeed regulated at all. They are simple minded vigilantes thinking they can do whatever they like with no repercussions.
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Male 13,630
OldOllie
I thought you would say that,
and the answer saddens me deeply.
I have no answer sir
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Male 3,445
"Because they are all gun-free zones where the shooters know that no one can shoot back."

You think he chose to do it at a school because he knew nobody would shoot back? His parents worked there. He shot them and he also killed himself. Why would he give a damn if someone had pulled a gun and stopped him after he`d managed to kill 10 people instead of 20?

The guy almost certainly had mental health problems.
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Female 2,674
"In case you never noticed, guns are LOUD! After the first shot is heard, ALL of the armed teachers and staff would immediately respond and take out the shooter thus minimizing the number of casualties. "

In your fantasy world maybe (and all of the armed teachers running to the rescue could very well result in the wrong person being labeled as the gunman and being shot and killed despite being innocent). But there are legal weapons which can shoot many bullets much quicker than the time it`d take for teachers to pull out their weapons and run to the classroom.
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Male 14,331
@LillianDulci

The point was you can kill more than one person with a rock which you said you couldn`t.

[quote]Personal responsibility includes my decision to NOT own a gun.[/quote]

I`m not the one trying to take that choice away.

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Male 646
@ferdyferd, they`re not mostly schools. Most of the shootings in the US are in urban areas of low socio-economic means. School shootings just make good news and politics
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Male 13,630
Its a impossible scenario,
akin to the arms race, police get bigger guns, perps get bigger guns, ban guns, like the UK there is a blackmarket, there is no real answer, no matter what you do, there will always be some smart sort who will find a niche market. look at it like internet piracy, cant stop it, akin to guns, you will not stop the supply of guns
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Male 15,832
[quote]So you`re basically advocating the arming of the Nazi party[/quote]
No, you`ve just proven that gun control doesn`t work.
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Male 425
http://youtu.be/HUbiwYHLHSM
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Male 15,832
[quote]Only thing I wonder about the US is WHY schools most the time??[/quote]
Because they are all gun-free zones where the shooters know that no one can shoot back.
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Male 10,338
"well regulated militia"

This statement referred to the populace, not the ARMY. ARMY is different than MILITIA.
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Male 15,832
LD you just proved that your really are that stupid.

In case you never noticed, guns are LOUD! After the first shot is heard, ALL of the armed teachers and staff would immediately respond and take out the shooter thus minimizing the number of casualties.
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Male 646
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!

- Adolph Hitler, 1935

The Holocaust COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED to an armed popoulace. "

Except that Hitler didn`t add gun laws until well into his dictatorship. The original laws were put in place by the Weimar Republic so that people like Hitler and his paramilitary Nazi`s wouldn`t have access to them. So you`re basically advocating the arming of the Nazi party
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Male 13,630
OldOllie
Old England may not be as bad with mass killings but we have a fair few gun murders, we aint no shining example, they might be outlawed, but hell, if you got a hundred quid - 150 dollars, you could get one pretty easy, we have grenade killings, shotgun murders, and a fair few nutters just going out on a drive and plugging as many as they can. Only thing I wonder about the US is WHY schools most the time??
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Male 3,445
I am sick over this. Sick that it happened and sick that the solution proposed by so many to combat the highest number of gun murders in the world is to increase the number of guns. Personal responsibility includes my decision to NOT own a gun.
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Male 9,754
"Guns don`t kill people, bad people do"

Atomic bombs don`t kill people, bad people do. So let`s legalize atomic bombs. Hell, conceal and carry.
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Male 3,285
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

END OF DISCUSSION!

That was relevant 200+ years ago. It has no relevance to modern day society.

Plus as lillian said, you convieniently skip the "well regulated militia" part. This means an army. Not a bunch of vigilantes who think they can do anything.
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Male 425
Arm the preschoolers so they can fight back. Seems to be the only plausible solution.
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Female 2,674
aj, I see you`re ignoring the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd amendment.

And I don`t understand your point about the pigs. The situation I described is very plausible. At bare minimum, this guy would still have been able to murder his mom (which was his goal) and a bunch of kids before anyone managed to kill him.
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Male 10,338
Lillian.

Seriously? What if pigs could fly by shooting frogs out of their ass?
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Female 2,674
"I`m saying the adults in the school should be allowed to carry concealed weapons."

I`ll ignore your needless insults for now. So, this guy goes into a classroom while his mom is teaching, shoots her dead and kills a bunch of children because only she was the only one in the room with a gun and he killed her right away. He can then go to another room, try to kill more people like he did. Let`s say that teacher A sees him before he manages to shoot anyone outside of that first room where he already murdered his mom and a bunch of kids. So teacher A shoots and kills gunman. Teacher B decides to be a hero, and go shoot the gunman. Teacher B goes to the hallway to shoot him, sees teacher A with a gun and a room full of dead people, shoots teacher A thinking they`re the gunman. Etc. More people with guns wouldn`t have solved anything.
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Male 10,338
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

END OF DISCUSSION!
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Male 10,338
"OldOllie, you advocating 5 year old children carrying guns?"

Teachers, and approved school personnel.
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Male 15,832
[quote]OldOllie, you advocating 5 year old children carrying guns?[/quote]
No, you dumb twot. I`m saying the adults in the school should be allowed to carry concealed weapons. Jesus Christ, are you really that stupid?
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Male 5,163
McGovern1981 Pretty sure catapults and things like them was invented and created with the exact same final objective of the guns. Turn around as you want, change words and subjects...the point still stand.
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Female 2,674
OldOllie, you advocating 5 year old children carrying guns?
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Female 2,674
"Pretty sure catapults and things like them did exatly that killing more than one person at a time. "

Because catapults are easy to hide and to transport. Your arguments about killing with rocks are getting even more ridiculous. We`re not living in the 1500s :P
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Male 15,832
[quote]"Guns don`t kill people, bad people do"

And we should make it as easy as possible for these bad people to do this.[/quote]
And what better way to do this than to establish gun-free zones to guarantee that their victims have been disarmed and can`t defend themselves?
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Male 5,163
McGovern1981 changing the cards on the table don`t affect my logic, i just ear the scratch of your nails while you try to climb a mirror.
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Male 14,331
[quote]And we should make it as easy as possible for these bad people to do this.[/quote]

Said the man who`s never owned a gun and has no knowledge of the gun laws.

@lillian

Pretty sure catapults and things like them did exatly that killing more than one person at a time.

@yusuksomuch

Addressing the real problem noooooo just do what alot of Europe did and ban things because the government knows what`s beter for you than you do!
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Male 14,331
[quote]With a gun you can do only one thing...destroy your target. [/quote]

Who said the target is alive? You can get food with them also start a fire with them if you pull the bullet out and use the powder. Amazing! according to the anti gunners I should have multiple murders by now guns must be defective!
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Male 3,445
"Im sorry, I should have said "discussions in the media" this group doesn`t really accurately reflect mainstream media ya know?"

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I`m doing my best to avoid the media coverage today. I can barely stand this thread right now.
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Male 1,008
@FP Im sorry, I should have said "discussions in the media" this group doesn`t really accurately reflect mainstream media ya know? :)
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Male 2,332
I wonder if it`s maybe the increased media-coverage, or if `civilization` really is going down the drain.
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Male 3,445
"like always, no one will be talking about reforming mental health care in this country."

A few of us have tried to bring it up in this thread.
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Male 1,008
IDK if this was covered, I cant bring myself to read anymore of the banter, but I want to say this. This is going to bring up the newest round of gun control debate and, like always, no one will be talking about reforming mental health care in this country. armed mentally strong population vs. unarmed mentally weak population, what do you think ANY govt would choose?
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Male 1,678
"Guns don`t kill people, bad people do"

And we should make it as easy as possible for these bad people to do this.
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Female 2,674
"Depends on the size of the rock and what you`re using. Belive it or not people killed each other really well before guns exsisted."

No matter the size of the rock, you`re not going to kill multiple people with it at a time. Yeah you can take said rock, go somewhere else, kill someone else with it. But you`re not going to go into a mall or a school, pelt people with rocks and have the same amount of people die as you would with a gun. Unless you`re dropping a boulder the size of a house on a group of humans :|
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Male 1,365
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Male 2,988
I have the solution people. Lets just make schools "gun free zones" that way people can`t take guns there and this would have never happened. Problem solved. Your welcome.
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Male 5,163
McGovern1981 Inanimates objects studied projected and created with just one singular objective that is destroy ,kill ,wound eliminate your target are as evil as the people that they used it to kill. With a rock you can start a fire with sparkles,you can build your home your castle and your church,you can create a statue. With a gun you can do only one thing...destroy your target.
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Male 14,331
@LillianDulci

Depends on the size of the rock and what you`re using. Belive it or not people killed each other really well before guns exsisted.
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Male 15,832
For all you smug leftist Eurotards holding yourselves up as a shining example of achieving a more peaceful civilization by banning personal gun ownership, I give you the words of one of your own:

[quote]This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future![/quote]
- Adolph Hitler, 1935

The Holocaust COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED to an armed popoulace.

We Yanks have a lot of catching up to match your disgraceful record on gun violence.
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Female 2,674
McGovern1981, another irrelevant picture (not surprised!). How many people can you kill at a time with a rock? You`d pretty much have to grab a person and bash them in the head with it repeatedly to kill them with a rock. Sure it can happen. But it`s a lot more difficult and you`re not going to be able to kill multiple people with it.
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Male 14,331
[quote]Gun control isn`t just about assault rifles.[/quote]

Ya you`re right it`s about control.
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Female 2,674
" I said that the LACK of guns in the hands of responsible citizens is the problem."

There is definitely no lack of guns in the US. What kind of insane reality are you living in?
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Female 3,726
I just got home and heard about this. I haven`t read the comment but I have to say, this S H I T has got to drating stop. For all you god freaks on here, where was your god when these kids were shot dead??
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Female 2,674
"It`s a trick question because it leaves out handguns which are used more than those "evil" assualt rifles."

So you`re admitting there`s more death by guns and that your imagine was misleading? I assumed the left was "deaths by weapon that`s not a gun" and right was "deaths by weapon that is a gun" and that the pictures were generic images representing gun and non-gun. Gun control isn`t just about assault rifles.
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Male 14,331

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Male 5,163
OldOllie responsible citizens? Are you sure that you want to be in the middle of a shooting between "criminals" and "responsible citizens"?
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Male 3,445
"I said that the LACK of guns in the hands of responsible citizens is the problem."

Explain to me how that applies to this situation. How many sane people actually think an elementary school should be anything but a gun free zone?
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Female 2,674
"Ya that`s working so well in Mexico ROFL!! JK!"

Picking and choosing which country to mention. The problem in Mexico doesn`t have to do with its gun control laws. One factors is our war on drugs which increases crime and violence in Mexico. If you compare to other first world countries with stronger gun control laws, they tend to have less murders. Mexico isn`t a first world country so it can`t be compared in the same way.
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Male 14,331
@LillianDulci

It`s a trick question because it leaves out handguns which are used more than those "evil" assualt rifles.
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Male 5,163
Pooptart19 seem not so much.

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Male 15,832
[quote]OldOllie if you think that guns laws are not the problem...so it means that the problem is another...your society maybe?[/quote]
I never said that guns are not the problem. I said that the LACK of guns in the hands of responsible citizens is the problem. Gun-free zones give these nutcases a government-backed guarantee that if they want to murder dozens of people, they will not have to worry about facing armed resistance. They can shoot and reload till they run out of ammo.
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Male 2,440
[quote]You guys could solve your fiscal crisis in no time if you just taxed bullets the way most governments tax alcohol.[/quote]
MacGuffin, do you even know how f*cking expensive bullets are already?
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Male 14,331
[quote]There are places with more gun control than we have that don`t have people going around bombing everything, and they don`t have the everyone`s out to get me mindset, so they have less violence and deaths. [/quote]

Ya that`s working so well in Mexico ROFL!! JK!
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Male 14,331
[quote]You guys could solve your fiscal crisis in no time if you just taxed bullets the way most governments tax alcohol.[/quote]

Did or are still doing that in Chicago as you can see it`s working so well......
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Female 2,602
You guys could solve your fiscal crisis in no time if you just taxed bullets the way most governments tax alcohol.
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Male 5,163
McGovern1981 guess wich of the weapons you showed need just a movement of your finger from far away to kill multiple target while the others at least requires that you fight or you are at least attached to your "singular" victim.
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Female 2,674
McGovern1981, proof that that is true in America? Your graphics you like to post are nice and all but without proof they are worthless.
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Female 2,674
"I`m sorry, but if we got rid of guns, the result would not be less violence... would be more violence with things like car bombs, homemade explosives, and arson."

IF that were true (and I`m not saying that it is), it`s only because Americans are freakin insane. Our mindset about weapons and "protecting ourselves" needs to change. There are places with more gun control than we have that don`t have people going around bombing everything, and they don`t have the everyone`s out to get me mindset, so they have less violence and deaths.

But you`re also disregarding the insane amount of people who weren`t plotting to kill people. Who either did it by accident (playing around with a gun or thought someone was an intruder when they weren`t) or did it suddenly out of anger. Those people aren`t going to just have bombs lying around like they have guns now.
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Male 14,331
@lillian
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Male 5,163
OldOllie if you think that guns laws are not the problem...so it means that the problem is another...your society maybe?
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Female 2,674
"It should be a crime if your gun gets used by someone else to commit a crime because you didn`t adequately secure it in a safe or with a biometric lock."

The problem with this is too many people think they need a gun to protect themselves from someone invading their house. If someone`s invading your house, you probably wont have enough time to go to your safe and open it, so people leave their guns unsecured. As long as the paranoid, everyone`s out to get me, attitude continues, people are going to leave their guns laying around where anyone can get them.
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Male 10,855
[quote]It should be a crime if your gun gets used by someone else to commit a crime because you didn`t adequately secure it in a safe or with a biometric lock.[/quote]

Then one should determine HOW the weapon was taken. If it was, as you suggest, taken by a relative then one should consider the trust the owner placed on the culprit. On the other hand if someone smashed into the house then there`s not much of a case even IF the owner didn`t have a safe.
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Male 14,331
@furryblob

Hmm part of the problem ya let see my murder count is zero. That`s quite the problem!!
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Female 2,674
"ANy idea how many people diesel fuel and a substance mixed with it which I won`t mention has killed? Works beter than a gun for sure."

If it worked better than guns and was easier to obtain than guns, I`m sure more people would use it. Plus you`re assuming all people who have murdered with guns were planning to kill a bunch of people. Most gun deaths are on family members and friends, either by accident or by someone getting really angry for whatever reason and doing something they otherwise wouldn`t have done because of having easy access to a gun. This guy killed his mom, there`s a chance he wasn`t initially planning to kill more people than just his mom but decided to since he was already at it.
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Male 14,331
I`m waiting for the day when the plebs of the UK are only allowed plastic sporks for their "saftey." Their "saftey" not the royal elites that live off their taxes for doing nothing whatsoever they`d have nothing to gain from that.
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Male 3,060
I`m sorry, but if we got rid of guns, the result would not be less violence, nor would it be more murders with knives or similar weapons. The result would be more violence with things like car bombs, homemade explosives, and arson.
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Female 1,803
"SO you get robbed and should be held accountable??? LOL!!"

Yep. Secure your guns in a good, heavy safe attached to your house and they are extremely unlikely to be stolen. Surely, you have to argue that you would never get robbed if you were actually carrying the gun. I mean, that`s the argument to having one, right?
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Male 573
@McGovern1981

Then more will continue to die, you and people like yourself are part of the problem.
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Male 14,331
@lauriloo

Works beter than standing around helpless waiting to get shot. Now what did the police take this guy down with again. Oh happy thoughts ok....
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Male 14,331
@FoolsPrussia & LillianDulci

ANy idea how many people diesel fuel and a substance mixed with it which I won`t mention has killed? Works beter than a gun for sure.
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Female 1,803
"Because a bunch of people having guns in a highly stressful situation wont lead to people accidentally shooting the wrong person."

Haven`t you heard? All these gun owners have superhero powers and the ability to have perfect aim in high stress situations. They`re ALL Dirty Harry. Hours and hours of Call of Duty has trained them to be the hero. At least that`s the delusion they operate under.
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Male 14,331
@LillianDulci

And then herself now how do you stop suicide?

@lauriloo

SO you get robbed and should be held accountable??? LOL!!
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Female 2,674
Conservative logic: A bunch of crazy people having easy access to guns (including ones that can fire way too many bullets in a very short amount of time) and go on killing sprees? Give more people guns and don`t try to regulate the types of guns allowed!!! Because a bunch of people having guns in a highly stressful situation wont lead to people accidentally shooting the wrong person.
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Male 3,445
Regarding the Chinese knife attacks, I will just say this: So far, 22 children were injured in that attack, but none have died. In the Connecticut gun attacks today, over two dozen people are dead.

We can`t always stop a lunatic from going on a violent spree, but we can discuss ways to make it harder for him to take lives. I`m not talking about a ban on guns, necessarily. This includes mental health care and a deep look at our societal problems, as well as trying to determine how to keep guns out of the hands of people who aren`t fit to have them.
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Female 1,803
A small start would be holding gun owners more accountable when they fail to secure their weapons. Too many of these killers have gotten their weapons from relatives or friends. Plus, kids are killing themselves and their friends poking around their own house and finding guns. It should be a crime if your gun gets used by someone else to commit a crime because you didn`t adequately secure it in a safe or with a biometric lock.
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Female 2,674
"Ya you don`t see any mass shooting at shooting ranges now do you? Wonder why that might be?"

Maybe not a mass shooting, but I have heard a story of a woman killing her son at a shooting range....
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Male 15,832
[quote]So what is it the state can do mitigate disasters like these?[/quote]
Asked and answered. The only question is how many more multiple-victim slaughters have to take place in these gun-free shooting galleries before we man up and tell the anti-gun idiots to sit down and SFTU?
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Male 14,331
@OldOllie

Ya you don`t see any mass shooting at shooting ranges now do you? Wonder why that might be?
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Male 10,855
[quote]So just sit back and watch the school shootings, because there are many, many more in your future.[/quote]

I think there IS a way to address, it the problem is the discussion always tends to be too broad. I.e. efforts at the national level are often subject in most debates (as far as I can tell). You`re right that the 2nd Amendment doesn`t flat out forbid state govts from regulating weapons, but such statutes must be narrowly tailored. So what is it the state can do mitigate disasters like these? Do such measures even need to involve controlling guns themselves?
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Male 14,331
@furryblob

Ditto...when did the Midwest become part of the UK? UKs solution to problems ban objects ignore what cause people to do these things.
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Male 15,832
[quote]Less guns not more guns is the solution.[/quote]
It was a gun-free zone. They already had "less" guns. How did that work out?
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Male 573
I find it very disturbing that some people here (yea you know who you are) seem to love guns more than anything, I`m glad I don`t live in America I`d hate to have the misfortune to be born in such a bizarre nation.
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Male 3,908
They just announced that the gunmen`s mother was among the dead found in the school. The school already had tight security apparently, and didn`t just let anyone in the building unless they were a familiar face. That might be it right there.
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Male 14,331
Blame an object and not the person. Watch how much the media pushes an agenda from this when they`re even more to blame. Ever notice the copycats that come from this sort of coverage?

[quote]Also, I`m quite disgusted by the BBC coverage of this. A child talking about seeing bullets and asking shaken parents if they feel their children are safe in American schools.[/quote]
Slimy yellow journalism.
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Female 1,803
"Tragedies happen with or without guns."

How about we compare QUANTITY of massacres with guns vs massacres by knives?
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Male 5,811
*difference in the US. You`d have to fundamentally change US culture, which is nigh impossible. So just sit back and watch the school shootings, because there are many, many more in your future.
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Male 5,811
[quote]The ONLY solution for this is to outlaw gun-free zones.[/quote]
This I think would be just as silly as outlawing guns. I remember having a discussion with @HumanAction about this and he made the point that it`s a culture thing, and the more I see, the more correct I think he is. You can point to countries like Switzerland, which has little to no gun control, as a model of a society that embraces guns and does just fine, similarly you can find places with tight gun control that do fine. The problem, to me, is that Americans have a...unique obsession with guns that, as @AJ pointed out, is rooted in your hatred of government. The Swiss have direct representation and any citizen can challenge a law (if 50,000 signatures are collected they hold a referendum) or even make amendments to their constitution, if the majority votes for it. It just comes down to the attitudes of the people in your particular country, and as such I don`t see tighter or looser gun laws making any differen
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Male 573
Less guns not more guns is the solution.
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Male 1
Tragedies happen with or without guns.
China tragedy
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Male 15,832
[quote]Tragic. What kind of monster shoots children?[/quote]
Better question: what kind of monster leaves them totally unprotected by designating their school as a gun-free shooting gallery?
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Male 15,832
Yet another multiple-victim mass shooting takes place in...wait for it...a gun-free zone.

The ONLY solution for this is to outlaw gun-free zones.
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Female 2,761
I`m already having a bad day trying to deal with death, then I turn on the TV to this poo.

STOP BLAMING THE GUNS! MY GOD! We`re drated up! Get over it! Work on our pathetic poor ass excuse of parenting as a society. Work on teaching our youth that your fellow man and empathy and our community is more important then coach bags and ugg boots!

YOU`RE dratING KIDS COME FIRST! GET OFF YOUR IPHONES! GET OFF FACEBOOK! MAKE DINNER AND SIT AND TALK TO YOUR KIDS! ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!

drat IT
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Male 27
@tedgp I have both reasons and purposes to keep guns. I`m sure plenty of people do. Don`t assume everyone is like you.
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Male 27
@tedgp Your arguments aren`t sound either, buddy boy. Hell, they aren`t even logically valid.
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Male 27
@Jakk88
There`s a lot of factors that contribute to homicide rates, and there`s a lot better ways for the US to lower its rates than gun control. Improving the education and correctional systems is a good start, but poverty rates and population density play a huge role as well.
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Male 5,811
@USAF: Your stats are misleading. What you aren`t taking into account is the difference in what each country considers a violent crime. Countries like Canada include all types of assault as a violent crime whereas the US only counts aggravated assault, and simple assault is by far the most committed. When you account for all the crimes the US doesn`t consider violent that other countries do, the US is much higher.
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Male 10,338
Nubblins: While we feel for the parents, and regret their loss, none of us have kids in school in Connecticut.

Hell the only person I know from Connecticut, is Juggalettelenzzo.

Debate on friends!
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Male 14,331
[quote]I`m all for not selling military-grade assault rifles[/quote]

This guy used two 9mm pistols.
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Female 1,743
I don`t know if any of you have children, but most all of you have children in your life that you care about, no? You`re sitting here arguing on the internet about guns, when families out there in CT are scrambling to find out if their children are safe--18 of which will never see their babies grow up or have babies of their own.

That`s the most important thing here.
Not gun control arguments.
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Male 10,338
Jesus guys. He didn`t say Homicide. He said Violent Crime.
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Male 2,220
USAF27 what the drat are you on dude? USA has a homicide *rate* more than 3 times that of the UK.

(Source United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime)

People died, give them a bit of respect before you start calling the opposing side out with your bs.
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Male 10,338
Male 3,908
@tedgp - "It helps your case if you state arguments that have sound reasoning..."

I`m still waiting to hear your "sound reasoning" for making guns illegal. All you`re saying is that no one should have guns, they should be illegal, end of story. Please tell me how, just because something is made illegal, people won`t do it anymore? Drugs are illegal but there are still drug dealers and drug addicts all over the world. Child pornography is illegal but there are still pedophiles being busted for distributing & making it. The reasoning you`re using sounds a bit flawed to me.
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Male 45
@USAF UK homicide 1.2 per 100,000
USA homicide 4.2 per 100,000
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Male 7,830
5cats, showing defensive kills on television for the most part because the person who committed the act of self defense probably doesnt want to be known for it, as well as it garnering less interest than a mass shooting like this one.

I also love how you say "MSM", which by earlier definitions from you is anything but Fox News. Is Fox not covering this?
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Male 10,338
"The gun laws were put into place to protect citizens from indians and from certain nemies during the civil war."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The gun laws were put in place to protect the citizens from THE GOVERNMENT and FOREIGN INVADERS. Personal safety from criminals is a bonus.
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Male 10,338
This has nothing to do with the availability of guns. If guns were illegal, he`d have gotten one illegally. If guns were gone, he`d have used a knife/sword/bomb/whatever.

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Male 425
The weapons in private hands are badly needed to protect the farms from wild animals and marauding indians. Wasn`t that so?

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering!
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Male 7,830
Crakr, It takes a sick individual to take the life of a child. This kind of sick mind would have done something like this whether or not the world was in good standings.

Good people see the hate and fear mongering and look for ways to make it better.

Terrible people got a hold of weapons and do what terrible people do with them.

It happens, its horrible, and the only people to blame are those who did this.
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Male 27
Gun control is irrelevant to this incident. I don`t see how some of you mouth-breathers think that if guns were banned these guys would have been like, "Oh, well, guns are illegal, so we can`t go shoot all those kids like we wanted." We should focus more on the aspects of our society that breed these crazies and less on the tools that facilitate their actions.

Also, do you guys realize how hard it would be to completely ban guns in the US, which is what a lot of commenters on the NY Times are whining for? Remember how well prohibition worked out? Remember how well the laws against marijuana work? Especially in California where it`s psuedolegal? Listen, I`m all for not selling military-grade assault rifles, but as a legitimate gun user, it is obvious to me that people who support banning things like handguns and semi-automatic weapons and limiting ammo purchases have never used a gun, and are just afraid of something they don`t understand.
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Male 3,285
@USA now you are going of at an extreme tangent. Trying to compare all types of crimes with massacres.

It helps your case if you state arguments that have sound reasoning, and not desperate "facts" used purely to shore up the poor attempts at wanting to keep guns for which you have no reason or purpose to.
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Male 96
Not picking on my 2nd favorite country

BRITAIN THE MOST VIOLENT COUNTRY?
The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents. In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents (Much bigger population) Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

Britain has four times more violent crimes per 100,000 people than the U.S.?
The British crime statistics to which you refer appear to be correct. It is appalling that violent crime in England is four times more prevalent than in the United States.
The reasons appear to be (1) the successful effort of the British elite to disarm the population, with ever more draconian weapons control laws beginning in the 1920s...It is now 2012....I would appreciate anyone (except McMuffin) to elaborate and/or elaborate.
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Male 1,048
I`m with whodat. And I`m not necessarily in love with guns like some people. Hell I`ve never even shot one. But taking away something that is protected by our constitutional rights and would, if the time ever came along, be a great first line of defense for any extreme situation isn`t what needs to happen. Maybe teaching gun handling more or giving a mental health evaluation before giving you the right to a weapon<-even though some may think it`s extreme. There are plenty of other options that we can take into account and enforce instead of taking away our weapons. I`m sure if the time ever came and we ever needed to fight back against our government we could do so with bows and arrows.
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Male 240
Let the blamestorming begin! It`s not the mass media, it`s not guns, it`s not the right or left wingers...it was the crazy non-nice individual that walked into the school with guns. It really is that simple. There was another crazy non-nice individual in China that stabbed 20 kids this week. Want to feel better about this nonsense? Get involved. If you know someone that`s lonely or sick or has the capacity for violence. Get them help. Don`t wait and don`t blow it off. We all know the signs, but very few have the courage to step in. It`s too easy to look the other way. Ok, off my soapbox now.
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Male 3,445
What always gets lost in these incidents is the need for better access to mental health care. He killed the school psychologist. To me, that`s a sign of a deeper story.
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Male 40,739
[quote]The gun laws were put into place to protect citizens from indians and from certain nemies during the civil war.[/quote]
@tedgp: That may be the dunbest thing ever posted on IAB, srsly.
"Civil War"? The 2nd Amendment was in 1791 FFS! The Civil War came 70 years later!

[quote]Not for idiots to think they have a right to owning a gun now.[/quote]
So a citizen should only have rights if YOU (@tedgp) agree with them?
Even Rosie ODonnel`s bodyguards carry guns, ffs, and she`s as anti-gun as they come. And a fat hypocrite too.

Typical anti-gun arguement: It`s not a right because I personally don`t like it.
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Male 10,855
@Jakk88

Hmmm, that`s a different perspective on the matter. Nice video.
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Male 40,739
@cobrakiller: The Media shows ONLY gun-crime, NEVER when a gun owner defends his/her self from criminals. Which happens a LOT btw...

So what`s the message for lunatics who crave attention? "Go shoot up a school! No one will stop you! You`ll get on TV!!"

If more "guns stop crime" stories were aired? It might make a kook think twice... maybe.
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Male 1,008
great link jakk makes a valid point
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Male 40,739
@CrakrJak: It`s true! The MSM plays these stories for all they`re worth & it just leads to `copycat` actions.

Remember when `streaking` was a fad? It was sure to get you airtime. When they stopped showing the disturbance on TV? It faded to oblivion. Same for `fans` going on the fiend. Now they refuse to show it, which is proper.

Cue gun control cries in 3... oh too late.

Really, legal guns are rarely used for crimes. It`s ILLEGAL weapons that need to be controlled! And taking away gun-owners rights is NOT the way to do that! Look at Britian: guns outlawed? Gun crime soars! Because now the `black market` can fetch a good price for an illegal firearm...
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Male 687
same old same old
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Male 45
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Male 39,904

We live in a media age where losers can`t just off themselves, they have to get the spotlight by taking a school or movie theatre with them. They achieve post-mortem what they hopelessly couldn`t achieve in real life. Or do they? Who remembers the names of the last school shooters? And that`s a sad commentary as well.
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Male 3,285
@crackr now you are just being retarded. Knives are completely different to guns and you know it.
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Male 3,445
Early reports claim the gunman was a school parent and that he killed the school psychologist and principal.
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Male 17,511
tedgp: I`d like to know when your country is going to ban knives. After all 4000 knife crimes occur daily in the UK.

It`s not the gun that kills people, it`s not the knife either.
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Male 3,908
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Thomas Jefferson
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Male 14,331
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Male 686
If at the moment 5% of wackos manage to get a gun if the ban is lifted 100% of crazies in the US will have guns. And to counter this everyone else gets a gun.
Yep, this sounds absolutely reasonable and will surely reduce violence.
Oh, wait, kids won`t have guns, only the rapists around them...Hell, give guns to the children too.
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Male 14,331



Someday when I grow old I hope the UK will see what an orwellian place they live in.
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Male 10,855
[quote]You seriously think that is relevant to modern day society?[/quote]

Is the US constitution suddenly irrelevant?
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Male 10,855
[quote]In the US, hundreds of school killings happen, yet NOTHING is done to stop it happening.[/quote]

Brady act didn`t do much to curb violence, but moving along.
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Male 3,285
You seriously think that is relevant to modern day society? The gun laws were put into place to protect citizens from indians and from certain nemies during the civil war. Not for idiots to think they have a right to owning a gun now.
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Male 1,793
gun control now....
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Male 3,908
This quote from Ben Franklin pretty much sums up where I stand on the issue of gun control.

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Male 3,285
@mcgovern logic and common sense aren`t your strong points are there. The rest of the world know that guns should be banned. In the UK, we banned them after the dunblane massacre. In the US, hundreds of school killings happen, yet NOTHING is done to stop it happening.

It`s as if the country doesnt care at all. Especially people who think they NEED it have guns in their lives.

People who live in the middle of nowhere on ranches need guns to protect themselves from wildlife etc.

People who live in cities or just want to have a gun to feel "tough" dont.

I hope by the time i die at an old age, Americans will gain some common sense and realise how stupid they are.
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Male 3,908
Awesome, time for more nonsense from my favorite IAB douchebag!!!
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Male 14,331
[quote]And there are STILL some americans that think guns shouldnt be banned. [/quote]

Ya this one we should ban murder oh ya we did....
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Male 17,511
cobrakiller: I don`t normally quote Yoda but it`s true, "Fear leads to hate, Hate leads to anger, Anger leads to suffering." If people keep getting more and more fear heaped onto their psyche they will eventually crack from loss of hope.
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Male 3,285
That`s it. I`m homeschooling my daughter.

--

Going by the American education system, your daughter would be a genius if you did that.
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Male 3,285
And there are STILL some americans that think guns shouldnt be banned.
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Male 232
the sad thing is its getting more and more common
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Male 1,365
If the kids had guns, they`d be able to defend themselves
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Male 3,445
"If the media doesn`t stop repeatedly pounding people over the head with `chicken little` warnings from every angle, these type of crimes will become commonplace."

Dude, every other post you make here is some doomsday scenario about Obama.
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Female 8,043
Tragic. What kind of monster shoots children?
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Male 3,908
Oh boy, this isn`t too far from me. A lot of people who live in this area of CT commute to NYC for work. Watching a live shot now and a whole sh*tload of cops started running to the back of the school and up into a wooded are with their guns drawn. One shooter is dead, they`re lookinf for a second one.

So far all I`ve heard was 3 people being treated at a hospital in Danbury, CT nearby and there are fatalities, including children, but they haven`t said how many.
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Male 3,445
These shootings are becoming less surprising every day.
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Female 1,743
Oh, oh,
I`ll bite, beternal!




I hate guns! BOO GUNS!
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Male 7,830
crakr, so what you are saying is that the more people are scared, the more likely they are to shoot up a school full of children? I dont understand the correlation.
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Male 17,511
All this continued fear mongering, from around the world, is causing people to lose hope. I fear incidents like these are going to rise. If the media doesn`t stop repeatedly pounding people over the head with `chicken little` warnings from every angle, these type of crimes will become commonplace.
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Male 2,586
Ho ho, Second Amendment argument time...
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Female 1,743
That`s it. I`m homeschooling my daughter.
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Male 20,908
Link: Another Mass Shooting, This Time At A Grade School [Rate Link] - Multiple people, including children, have been killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Story developing.
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