RIP Hostess Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Etc [Pic+]

Submitted by: CrakrJak 4 years ago in

This is what happens when unions won"t bargain.
There are 76 comments:
Male 40,739
@chalket: Sorry, but I`m a-gonna get all serious:

I used to abbreviate @CrakrJak as @Crakr...

The he explained one day that "Crakr" meant old-school "code cracking" and "Jak" referes to that era too.
Hense his name meant something like: I`m good at code hacking!
BUT Others simply called him "Cracker" in that "bad way"!
So I stopped shortening it and now call him by his full name. HE NEVER complained! I did so freely!
Others? Like "patchgrabber" = @patchy.
"FoolsPrussia" = @FP
"AuburnJunky" = @aj
Them I asked if it was OK to use shortened or altered versions of their names, and they said yes! So now I do!

Respect is NOT something you demand of others, it`s something you SHOW and hopefully earn in return...

NOTE: I sometimes shorten other names, but NOT every time!
QZ =QueenZira but I`ve never asked if that was OK all the time... just fyi...
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Male 2,711
Wellll, I dunno... I still respect cats too much ;-)
How does 5Bats sound? 5Hats? :-)
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Male 40,739
No worries mate! I explain it often.

But would it "kill you" to say "5Cats"? Harm you in any way?
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Male 2,711
@5Rats: Thanks for the "quote issue" clarification...
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Male 40,739
>>@chalket: It`s an "IAB Wierdness": You cannot have both Quotes AND Links in the same post. Images are OK though... @FancyLad knows about it, it`s been here since DAY ONE! lolz!

I`ve never, even once denied that the "top execs" were looting the company! I`ve even said so outright: "burning building" ring a bell?

BUT that`s only a side-effect of the problem, stop it and what? NOTHING changes! The company STILL loses a Million bucks a WEEK! The Union is STILL on strike! There`s till NO MONEY to pay what`s owed...

Again I point out that the $110 million savings was likely through layoffs (according to your articles, but it`s not too clear) NOT wage concessions.

If there had been wage DE-creases? I think the Unions would be shouting about them from every rooftop! Their silence on the matter...
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Male 2,711
AND WTF KEEPS SCREWING UP MY "QUOTES"??!!!
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Male 2,711
@5Rats: Whodat was right, the execs got pay raises when the company KNEW it was going to file for bankruptcy. The only reason the pay was reduced to $1 (for just 4 execs, btw) was they were caught manipulating salaries to get around bankruptcy compensation rules! Source And now those same "benevolent" execs are asking the bankruptcy court to allow $1.75 million in incentive bonuses to senior managers! Source Bonuses for running the company into bankruptcy!

[quote"> You spout poo while demanding others quote sources? [/quote">

Pretty funny to see such a poo-spouter as yourself pointing fingers! lol
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Male 2,711
What a lot of you have missed is that these union workers already gave major concessions in pay and benefits to help keep the company afloat in 2009. One of the stipulations was that the ~$110 million a year savings was to be reinvested in the company to update equipment and improve advertising and market share. That was not done, the savings went straight to executive pay raises and bonuses and the 2 venture capital companies who bought the business.

When Hostess came back again asking for more big concessions (after laying the legal groundwork for another bankruptcy filing, and giving the execs another raise, up to 80% for some), the union basically said "Been there, done that... hell NO!" and went on strike. Hostess has been failing for many years, they just now have a scapegoat.
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Male 40,739
VV @WhoDat: So typical: read the headline and ignore the news.
Those reports are FALSE! HuffPost has already RETRACTED them.
In April the CEOs reduced their pay to $1 = FACT.

Cheesus man! You spout poo while demanding others quote sources? F-DAT!
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Male 3,908
Well I`ll be damned! Now there are reports coming out saying that the Hostess CEO and other execs received pay increases back in April when the company was in the middle of filing for bankruptcy! Yup, that`s the union`s fault!
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Male 15,832
Q: How many Teamsters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 12. You got a problem with that, buddy?
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Male 40,739
@whodat: Not to belabour the point (no pun intended) but that`s what the "profit sharing" thing was about (as far as I know, eh?)
If the employees OWN 25% of the company, and the company makes money? THEY make more than the 8% they gave up! Seats on the BoD means the CEOs will be answerable to them. At least in theory.

Ratchet Effect is why companies do NOT give out pay raises easily. Once given they CANNOT lower pay! The Union makes SURE of that!

After the company goes broke? What good did that strike do for the workers?

As I say: I`ve seen it up close! It`s mind-numbing how the Union feeds on the greed, stupidity and ignorance of it`s members... until the members are OUT of a job!
Then the Union is gone baby gone!
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Male 3,908
@5Cats - It`s not only that they`re not willing to accept it when times are tough, an 8% pay cut is better than no pay at all. The problem with that, and I`ve seen it happen many times, is that once things start getting better you`re not getting back what you thought you temporarily gave up without a fight.
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Male 40,739
[quote]i could easily say the same about all corporations.[/quote]
@jops360: True, but the fact is that corporations answer to their shareholders! If the CEOs make bad decisions it`s not the "employees" who decide to fire them, eh? 95% of companies treat their employees well! It`s common sense AND cheaper in the long run.

@WhoDat: I`m glad you`ve had a good Union experience, but these are TEAMSTERS ffs! They`ve been 100% Mob-owned since the 50`s!
I`ve seen many cases where "the Union" refused paycuts and POOF! The jobs were gone! These guys might get their jobs back, but the pay-cut they`ll face will be more like 25% - 50%, not 8...

Everyone wants more pay when times are good, but NO ONE is willing to accept less pay when times are bad = human nature.
Corporations are run by humans with the same nature, eh?
Who are the WORST "Union Busters"? OTHER Unions!
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Male 2,384
more like this is what happens when unions get treated like poo
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Male 8,530
After working for two unions, I decided they are basically useless for any hardworking individual.

Just a few problems I had with unions:
A union member filing a grievance because `he missed his break because no one woke him up`. (the Union`s position was that his job did not require him to be awake the entire 8 hour shift)
A grievance filed against ME because I was working `too hard`. (The Union did not want the management to get `unrealistic expectations` of production.)
I was also threatened with violence if I did not `slow down`.
An illiterate person getting a highly techinical position because it was `his turn`, which caused the company to actually hire an `assistant` to DO the job, while the illiterate sat on his ass.
Knowing that if I worked hard, I could get the SAME EXACT `merit` raise as the illiterate sitting on his ass.
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Male 3,908
@CrakrJak - A few months ago there was a hearing at the hall because a handful of bad apples did something like that. They ended up being kicked out of the union. I know they`ve been banned from the IBEW nationwide, not sure if they`d still be accepted in other unions like the CWA though. Like I said before, the IBEW is the only union I`ve been a member of so I can`t speak for any others, but we run a pretty tight ship here & don`t f*ck around. That`s why the IBEW in general, not just NY state, have been so prosperous.
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Male 10,855
To add to what CodeJockey`s saying the pension and medical liabilities enumerated in the bankruptcy affidavit DWARF all other operating expenses. All that is contigent and unliquidated are pension and medical claimed by unions the biggest item being the BCTGM.
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Male 17,511
whodat: What I`ve seen in unions halls during labor disputes has made me want to puke, it`s just been sickening. Vandalism, Threats, Intimidation, Thuggery, Beating people up, all were encouraged with pictures of "Scabs", their vehicles, homes and families plastered on the walls. Thugs from a union my dad belonged to tossed buckets of animal feces into an executives backyard pool. I`ve seen police reports of slashed tires, smashed glass, keyed cars, spray painted vulgarities and more.

Sorry, but that`s just f*cked up and unions that encourage their members to act like goons have no place in civilized society.

Fighting for a decent wage and benefits is fine, promoting criminal behavior when they don`t get their way is not.
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Male 5,626
whodat, they didn`t stop operating by choice.
When you are under bankruptcy protection, whatever isn`t being used to fund day to day operations is going to whomever wasn`t paid as a result of the filing.
They weren`t even meeting that.
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Male 3,908
Well I don`t know how it works down south, but the majority of non-union shops in the NY, NJ, CT & New England area are notorious for doing sh*t work and cutting corners. I`ve been on several jobs that were first given to non-union shops who then lost the contracts for many different reasons. We went in and had fix the mess they made and those customers, some big named companies too (IBM is one) have never hired a non-union shop since. They`d rather pay a little more to have the job done right than pay twice as much to have it fixed.
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Male 10,855
[quote]A union contractor wins the bid & takes that $100/hr, giving $50/hr to the electrician, keeping $50/hr for themselves. A non-union contractor wins the bid & takes that same $100/hr, giving $25/hr to the electrician, keeping $75/hr for themselves.[/quote]

Yet if the latter has a better track record than the former then I`d still choose the latter. As it is the former electrician can`t fully justify his expense.
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Male 3,908
They`re union, they`ll be back to work soon. The company was going under regardless, they`re just placing the blame on the union so people don`t focus on the mistakes management made that put them in that situation in the first place. I`m sure that list is a mile long.
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Male 5,626
whodat, they were already out of money. Under those conditions, they likely had to get daily loans to operate. The people they were borrowing from would have terms.

What wages do you suppose the workers will receive now?
They do have the option of buying the company they turned down 25% stake in.
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Male 3,908
@CodeJockey - Well, if they needed them back to work that bad they should have agreed not to cut their wages/benefits. That`s what everyone`s problem is, you`re brainwashed into thinking you need the company, that`s wrong. Without skilled workers, a company is useless, it`s just a name, they need you, and if they try to f*ck you over they lose!
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Male 3,908
They hope the union will go away so they can line their pockets with the extra money, get rid of benefits they don`t want to pay and basically turn us all into slaves.

This is how it works, contractors (both union & non-union) bid on jobs, all the bids are relatively similar so they can both remain competitive. I`ll use round, even numbers as an example. The customer agrees to pay the contractor $100/hr per Journeyman Electrician on the job. A union contractor wins the bid & takes that $100/hr, giving $50/hr to the electrician, keeping $50/hr for themselves. A non-union contractor wins the bid & takes that same $100/hr, giving $25/hr to the electrician, keeping $75/hr for themselves.
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Male 5,626
If you read the article, they were already under bankruptcy protection.
In order to get new financing, they needed the union to accept a new deal and be at work at a time and date to meet current orders.

No two ways about it: Union actions as presented in the article, killed that company.
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Male 3,908
@CrakrJak - "It`s a known fact..."

That`s the wrong way to start off an argument, then not produce any examples of these "known facts."

I go to the meetings every month to stay in the loop and make friends with some of the old-timers who have 20+ years in because during my apprenticeship I learned that they`re the most honest & outspoken of them all. Maybe it`s just the IBEW as a whole, but I`ve never heard anything bad from these guys. It`s a solid organization and has done an amazing job keeping us happy and all the NECA contractors that hire us happy. All the unions that have their sh*t together are the ones you never hear about, you can thank the media for that. The only time I ever hear something related to a union on the news it`s something bad, that way people think they`re all bad.
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Male 10,855
I think this is a one sided article considering it`s written by Hostess. But Crakr et al is correct as back in the day unionization was a good thing at the turn of 19th century when big businesses held the stick. Unfortunately, it`s the other way around now as unions now hold the stick especially now that pro-union laws are in the Federal code. Unionization now has a major opportunity cost.
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Male 546
If there is a market a new company will emerge to provide and sell product. This time probably without the benefit of Union employees.
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Male 878
First rule of management. When you f*** up find someone else to blame.
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Female 2,549
@inversegray
I installed my solar panels last August actually. There is a school in my neighborhood that runs electrics partially on wind turbines. There is natural gas & hydroelectric (though not the cleanes) available & increasingly used in this part of the world.

You catch up when you can okay you little snot nosed sh it :-)

Am all for unions, the hostess mess has nothing to do with negotiations. It`s a `product` supply & demand issue. Bad planning & management has got the company in financial trouble & the best way out for share holders is to sell & run.
Managements blames the union to dodge the responsibility.

Now if you had a benefit of the education or good diet you would figure it out. So SHUT UP.
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Male 17,511
whodat: It`s a known fact that the larger unions only care about getting their dues. Both of my parents, and both their parents, worked in unions and so have I. You get little representation, if any at all, at a grievance hearing and I`ve seen `hit lists` of those that have dared cross picket lines posted inside union halls.

You haven`t seen the dark side of unions yet apparently, work long enough with them and you will, it`s disgusting what I`ve seen done by them.
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Male 228
I can tell from the comments that a lot of people don`t know poo about unions. Sure, there are bad unions, just like there are bad bosses. The fact that bad bosses outnumber badunions is the reason unions exist. I`ve dealt with both bad unions and bad bosses. If unions didn`t exist millions of our families would be a lot worse off than they are. Read some history. Don`t just hear the right wing propaganda.
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Male 79
The hostess company has had problems for over a decade. Demand for their poo food has fallen and they had plenty of time to restructure, but they didn`t. That is a management problem not a union problem.
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Male 530
Somehow i find it odd to see a company that is so big and has so much money giving in so easily to a union strike.
I suspect another motive behind this `boohoo, look at us going down by there doings` story.
Perhaps some people get a nice kickback from selling the company?
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Male 770
i read these comments and i somehow i have less hope for humanity than i had before. i did not think that possible.
...
I guess sutra46 lives in a home with no electricity. good luck with your computer without coal you self rieteous little twit.
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Male 5,872
Is this a foot-shooting exercise by the unions? I read this on the BBC this morning:
Hostess Brands was founded in 1930 and had revenues of $2bn last year.
The union`s pension fund is its biggest unsecured creditor, and is owed about $944.2m.
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Male 3,908
@5Cats - "And "The Mob" controls each and every one of them now... not good!"

Man, you watch way too much TV & movies!!!

"They have NO intrest in their "members" and willingly sacrifice them for "the greater good" = their own profit!"

You`re so full of sh*t I don`t even know where to begin. If you were in a Union like that it`s your own damn fault, all the Union reps are elected by the members. If you see them not looking out for your best interests they`re voted out. I`ve been with the IBEW a little over 6 years, the only time I`ve ever been out of work longer than a week or two is during our slow times (winter), but even then we get unemployment from the state & the Union`s own unemployment fund. I`ve never had to take a pay cut, not even one penny, and have never lost or had any benefits reduced. Also, being Union, I get paid more than twice of what a non-union shop pays their electricians.
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Male 300
I blame Weird Al Yankovic! Ever since he went vegan Twinkie wiener sandwiches have lost their popularity.
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Female 2,549
Good riddence.
Some businesses are meant to go extinct I.e. seal fur trading & coal mining
Bad business is bad for employees & bad for consumers.
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Male 646
Who eats stanky ass twinkies anymore. Thank god that poo isn`t sold anymore. Maybe America will start to eat healthier with less crap cluttering grocery store shelves.
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Male 689
5kats -
"They have NO intrest in their "members" and willingly sacrifice them for "the greater good" = their own profit! "
i could easily say the same about all corporations. companies are always looking for easy money. one of the best ways is to fire people for short term gains. we have all seen it done. it is not the smartest thing to do but for them who cares. bain took this strategy to heart by making record profits then after selling off the assets. i dont blame the unions because they ARE looking out for the average employee. they didnt want to see everyone take an 8% cut and lose their pensions due to pooty management. granted it didnt work but these people will find work. there is no way this type of operation will stay dead. someone will buy it and manage it better.
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Male 689
so now we have to buy twinkies through someone other than hostess. oh well,life goes on. i loved their products but since they are selling off assets they WILL be made again and these people who got fired will find new work. its not like the walmart that just moves to another location and leaves an enormous store behind to become some eyesore. it will be bought and used, eventually.
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Male 15,832
The Teamsters had a work rule that Hostess cakes and Wonder Bread had to be delivered in 2 separate trucks. If they want any sympathy here, they can suck it out of me.
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Male 3,908
It`s not that unions didn`t bargain, Hostess wanted to cut their wages & benefits, f*ck them. They tried something like this with us, they said they "only wanted to slightly lower wages temporarily until things got better." The problem with that is once you agree on it you`re NEVER going to get back what you thought you only gave up temporarily. Just like the old saying, "if you give them an inch, they`ll take a mile." Our union reps got it all worked out though and the collective bargaining agreement was approved by both sides.

Either way you look at it, that`s not the only thing that`s forcing them to go into bankruptcy and go out of business. I`m sure there`s a long list of reasons for it, the workers going on strike was just the final nail in the coffin.
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Male 22
Unions aren`t the problem... Hostess ceo`s took the money and ran.
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Male 425
UNIONS DESTROYED OUR TWINKIES!
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Male 619
>There are boxes on EBay selling for over $50 right here

Well now that`s just silly. The brands are for sale, another company is going to be making them. There will still be Twinkies.
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Male 619
I`m not really surprised. Our Hostess rep was always having to take back product to be destroyed. Probably 50% at least. People have moved on.
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Male 17,511
WizardofCOR: From your link, Written By Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, aka the union that bankrupted them.

Bluntman: There are boxes on EBay selling for over $50 right, Here
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Male 579
I just did some contract work for them last week. Our company had them on credit hold. Good thing we made them pre-pay. Now about the rest they owe us.. ugh. Anyway, this shows what`s wrong with companies and this country in general. If that`s all it took, then they saw this coming a long time ago. Were they publicly traded? I`m too lazy to look that up and their executives` pay. That might tell us a good part of the story.
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Male 4,891

God bless unions.
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Male 20
Anybody noticing that the reason the unions were on strike is because Hostess was proposing 8% across the board pay CUTS and a 20% increase in health care contributions and decreased pension benefits? I`m not saying unions DON`T have some issues, but Hostess WAS NOT running their business well (modernization of plants, CEO pay raises despite having 6 company heads in less than 10 years, poor sales, etc...). Oh, and this was not the first time Hostess has been in bankruptcy court in the last EIGHT! The unions may have been the straw to break the back, but that camel was already overloaded.
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Male 40,739
@dogfeet: True that! I won`t disagree that sometimes a Union is very good! And in the (now distant) past worked wonders for it`s members!

It`s just that I`ve seen it do more harm than good. Overall, in the long run, for the most part.

And "The Mob" controls each and every one of them now... not good!
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Male 4,745
They`ve been huring for a while and already had plans to close some places down. The strike is just being used as a scapegoat.
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Male 5,872
Gahd blayuss thu unions! They stuck up for us through thick and thin, even if we lost our shee-ut jobs, houses, cars and livelihoods, they were behind us all the way to our DOOM.
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Male 164
i dunno 5cats, i`ve seen it go both ways. in my home town we have a steel plant that saw massive leaps forward in employee safety thanks to the union`s efforts.
also, i currently work two jobs, doing pretty much the same thing at both work places, and the two facilities are very similar. i`m unionized at one job, and not at the other. my hourly wage as a non-union worker is approximately half of my wage as a union member. sometimes they benefit.
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Male 40,739
@WizardofCOR: Your link says... almost nothing! But thanks for the effort.

Top executives "looting the burning building" is COMMONPLACE and has been around forever! If the Unions DIDN`T anticipate that? They`re both corrupt AND grotesquely incompitent...

@OddNumber: No more smuggling whiskey or pot across the border, now it`s Bootleg Twinkies!

@bluntman: Stock up by the ton! The best part is? Twinkies NEVER go bad! (germs would rather die than eat them...)
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Male 40,739
[quote]Can someone explain to me how a union finds it more beneficial to bankrupt a company than to reach an agreement that will keep it open?[/quote]
@RuralNinja: I can explain!
Unions are a multi-billion dollar industy controlled by organized crime (since arouhnd 1950).
They have NO intrest in their "members" and willingly sacrifice them for "the greater good" = their own profit!
They risk their members` jobs on a WHIM! "Oh, they`re just bluffing! Stay on strike and you`ll get another 1%!"
HUNDREDS of times a strike COSTS it`s members more in lost wages than they get in pay increase. And I mean thousands or 10`s of K`s in real, lost income.

I`ve seen it FIRST HAND many times (on a smaller scale of course!) and believe me: Unions always look out for #1! (Themselves...)
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Male 28
Need to stock up on twinkies, and sell them for 50 bucks a box ion ebay n a month or so.
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Male 201
apparently us in Canada won`t be affected by this deal
(possible border crossing by you Yanks for Twinkies?)
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Male 2,376
its all good they can get food stamps and obama phones!!!!! OBAMA BE TAKIN CARE OF YALL!!!!!!
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Male 1,268
Interesting. Most of the bakery`s seem to be in Right to Work states as well. Curious how a single union where the employees do NOT have to join it was able to accomplish this. I`m not so sure it`s solely the result of a 5000 member union. Wouldn`t be surprised if the exec`s at Hostess made some very poor chosen expansion investments.
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Male 2,578
So Hostess says one thing and the Union (that article was written by Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union) says another thing?

IMAGINE THAT.
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Male 169
OR this is what happens when an investment company owns the corporation and could give 2 poops about the business unless it is making a 8-12% increase on last quarter`s profits. (I really don`t know if this is the case, but it often is)
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Male 155
And now for the
real story.
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Male 1,048
Shame. I haven`t had one of those since I was a kid. I`ll Have to raid the store today
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Male 2,578
BAILOUT
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Male 5,314
THERE`S NO REASON TO LIIIIIIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Male 76
No, this is what happens when a company has been slowly-but-surely going bankrupt for almost 10 years and blames it on unions and Obama instead of its own pooty business practices.
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Male 519
Can someone explain to me how a union finds it more beneficial to bankrupt a company than to reach an agreement that will keep it open? I never understood how having all your union members unemployed is better than reduced wages.
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Female 145
Poor Tallahassee
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Male 39,904

Good thing they have union protection!
They can all band together in the unemployment line.
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Male 1,620
I BLAME THE OBAMA!

There, I said it.
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Male 17,511
Link: RIP Hostess Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Etc [Pic+] [Rate Link] - This is what happens when unions won`t bargain.
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