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Date: 11/16/12 10:56 AM

44 Responses to Oklahoma Doctors Vs Obamacare

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 9:54 am
    Link: Oklahoma Doctors Vs Obamacare - Is this how medicine should be? Cut out the insurance middle man and let the costs be equal to supply and demand!
  2. Profile photo of ForSquirel
    ForSquirel Male 30-39
    2157 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:23 am
    not surprising at all..
  3. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:29 am
    That sounds like the way healthcare used to be, and it worked and didn`t cost near as much.
  4. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:49 am
    THIS explains why we don`t need single payer. Third party payers unwittingly drive up costs by encouraging the providers to do so.
  5. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:51 am
    Note the part where they say hospitals charge extra to make up for people who don`t have insurance. At least Obamacare fixes that. Maybe if we had been able to get the single-payer system the GOP blocked, the gov would have more control over the costs. There`s a reason all the countries with universal health care pay way less for healthcare than the USA. Administrative costs are a huge part of the cost of healthcare and if there is one system for record-keeping and billing it would be much better. The GOP protected the health insurance system just like their lobbyists wanted so we only got a partial solution to our outrageous healthcare costs.
  6. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:56 am
    So it`s administration that inflates the cost? NOOOOOOOOOO!

    Good on this hospital, but it still wouldn`t be without its share of problems.
  7. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    I don`t get the comparison with Obamacare the poster is trying to make. Since we didn`t get universal healthcare, Obamacare doesn`t change much about HOW we pay for healthcare, just makes it more available to the poor and makes sure more people are in the system so the costs are spread out more and that *should* bring costs down, if the insurance companies do the right thing. And making preventative care low cost or free will hopefully find issues early when they are easier and cheaper to treat. We all can still choose a high deductible plan to keep premiums low and choose one of these clinics to keep our out of pocket expenses down while we pay off the deductible.
  8. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm
    Just so there is no confusion this is a ringing endorsement of Obama administration healthcare plan.
  9. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    Actually its neither an endorsement nor a rejection of Obamacare. This is simply showing an alternative option of transparent and affordable healthcare provided by doctors and surgeons which is trying to accomplish the same thing as Obamacare.

    Its the hospitals/medical centers and pharmaceutical companies blatant upcharging of their products and services that have driven up the cost of healthcare, if there were more regulations on the way they bill and do business, these sorts of things wouldn`t be needed.
  10. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    To anyone who agrees with the actions of this medical center: say hello to capitalism. This, my friends, is what so many of you are trying to fight against.
  11. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    Just so there is no confusion this is a ringing endorsement of Obama administration healthcare plan.
    Uhm... no.

    Just so there is no confusion, this is the complete opposite of the Obama administration`s healthcare plan. Did you really not get that?
  12. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    What Dragonace said.
  13. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3489 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    Anytime the gov. pays for anything it necessarily overpays because those receiving the funding, increase cost or spend surplus money to receive the same funding next time. This happens in everything that gets government funding from Military, to Construction, to Medicine. It creates "dead weight loss" and makes everything cost more and creates shortages, it can`t do anything else. It may not be politically correct, but I choose the free market every time.
  14. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    "Just so there is no confusion, this is the complete opposite of the Obama administration`s healthcare plan. Did you really not get that?"

    How, exactly, does Obamacare interfere with hospitals setting their own prices? We`re still free to choose where to get care. Do you really think going without insurance and relying on the free market to make a liver transplant or months of cancer treatments affordable out of pocket would work? I don`t get your point at all.

    Making fairly routine, out patient procedures a reasonable price doesn`t make EVERYTHING that can happen to a person affordable. Automobile body shops are on the free market but people still need car insurance to cover things that are bigger than a fender bender.
  15. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:05 pm
    To be honest, any system but the one you have now is better.
  16. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:15 pm
    @lauriloo

    How, exactly, does Obamacare interfere with hospitals setting their own prices?
    I believe you`ve missed the point of the argument. The argument being made is that we should embrace a "free market" or capitalistic approach in which each person is capable of choosing their providers. The narrator frequently discusses that any system in which the payer is not the person receiving the care is dangerous.

    With Obamacare, the person receiving the benefit is not directly the payer. Here to help, folks.

    Here to help.
  17. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:17 pm
    To be honest, any system but the one you have now is better.
    Agreed; this third party payer system is terrible. While I believe a single-payer system (such as Obamacare - kind of...) is a better option, I do not think it is the best option.

    Either way, you are correct that this system is the worst.
  18. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:25 pm
    @lauriloo

    Actually, perhaps I`ve done you a disservice by failing to explain further. Allow me to share:

    We`re still free to choose where to get care
    With Obamacare as your sole insurer, would you be able to choose to go to a doctor who does not accept Obamacare?

    Do you really think going without insurance and relying on the free market to make a liver transplant or months of cancer treatments affordable out of pocket would work?
    Whoa killer - I never said that. I think the best option is to have an HSA with a "free market" HDHP. In this way, for non-critical events, you are personally responsible fiscally. For critical events, you are covered.

    You see, my original statement was simply a critique of the one by @sutra. Somehow, she believes that the video endorsed Obamacare. My only statement was that it was not at all. You extrapolated more.
  19. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    All the systems are bad. Europe`s is better in some ways, but, for instance, cancer death rates are still higher and wait times are higher.


    Time to think outside the box people. Maybe, just maybe, the best solution has never been tried before and we have to be creative human beings and think of something. Copying Europe won`t work. Eurozone already double-dipped in this recession for a reason.
  20. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:31 pm
    This is a total caption fail. It should be Oklahoma Doctors vs Big Hospitals.
  21. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:46 pm
    i love what these guys are doing here. they are making healthcare more affordable than any insurance plan, private from work, or obamacare
  22. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    "With Obamacare as your sole insurer, would you be able to choose to go to a doctor who does not accept Obamacare? "

    Since when is Obamacare an insurer? My insurance is with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. If I want to go someplace that doesn`t take BCBS, I`m free to choose another provider. Same as before Obamacare. Are you sure you understand what "Obamacare" is?
  23. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 3:03 pm
    markust123 Total caption fail? The people who wrote the article and titled the video titled it this way.

    Part of the reason is A new provision buried in Obamacare effectively prohibits doctors from starting their own hospitals or expanding the hospitals they already own, like these doctors have, which has been widely interpreted as a give-away to the American Hospital Association.

    This means Obamacare would be in favor of the big hospitals as opposed to these privately owned centers who are cheaper for the public.

    Did you watch the entire video or read the link?
  24. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 3:17 pm
    @lauriloo

    Since when is Obamacare an insurer?
    Ha - that`s fair; that was poorly stated. I`m sure you "know what I mean" though. For those who are unaware, Obamacare is a set of rules that govern and regulate the health insurance industry.

    If I want to go someplace that doesn`t take BCBS, I`m free to choose another provider.
    The problem with this is economics. The concern is that, because of said regulations, many specialists may simply decline accepting ANY insurance. This may occur as a result of more people having insurance (thus insurers gain market leverage over providers). At some point, providers will leave the system and begin accepting "cash-only" - if you will.

    Are you sure you understand what "Obamacare" is?
    Sure do; I read all 2500 pages of it; though, I admit that this was quite awhile ago (and in MANY pieces).
  25. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 3:37 pm
    Ha - that`s fair; that was poorly stated. I`m sure you "know what I mean" though.
    By the way, what I meant is that, as regulations on any industry increase, competitors in that market continue to become more and more similar. Eventually (as regulations increase), we end up at the finale point: government backed monopolies in the industry. You can see evidence of this theory by looking at the current HMO`s.
  26. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 3:57 pm
    @HumanAction so your entire premise is based on a worst-case scenario someone came up with. thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like Fox News. How in the world could any health care provider survive on cash-only patients?? Maybe a small town doctor with 40 patients whose biggest case is delivering a baby once in a while. I`ll continue to believe what`s likely to happen. Life will go on, barely changed from how it was before for people who already have health insurance. If I`m lucky, the exchanges program will allow me to select a provider with similar benefits at a lower premium.
  27. Profile photo of Shelworth
    Shelworth Male 50-59
    385 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 3:59 pm
    I had wrist surgery a few years ago, my hospital charged my insurance company $40 for a single use Sharpie brand pen to write "this hand" on my arm.
  28. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm
    "Part of the reason is A new provision buried in Obamacare effectively prohibits doctors from starting their own hospitals"

    hmm, when I read your link, it made sense to me that they would want to limit the temptation of doctors sending patients to hospitals they have a financial interest in for procedures the patient might not actually need or could get cheaper somewhere else. Sounds like a scheme they are trying to stop.
  29. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    How in the world could any health care provider survive on cash-only patients??
    There are a ton of them out there. How many cosmetic surgeons are out there that don`t accept any insurance? ... and they aren`t even performing life-saving functions. People will pay cash to stay alive if the system is overburdened and cannot take care of them promptly.

    Then where are we? In a worse situation.

    Sounds like Fox News.
    Same old lines I always hear from liberals. Say anything they disagree with and instantly "Fox News". Come on now, how about something else for a change? I`m not even a Republican nor am I a conservative. With this logic, I assume you got your info from MSM? We can both do this if that`s how you`d like it to be - your call.

    similar benefits at a lower premium.
    I wouldn`t bet on it. You will most likely see little change, if any.
  30. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:23 pm
    so your entire premise is based on a worst-case scenario someone came up with
    Also, time and time again we have seen that this theory that you call "worst-case" happens. Yet you think, for some unknown reason, it will not be the same in this case.

    ... and then you have the nerve to somehow run around as if you`re more enlightened than everyone else. The liberal mentality continues to amaze me.
  31. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:25 pm
    I did watch the video and read the link @kitteh9lives. Neither mentions the provision you talked about. All the link for this video says about Obamacare is,

    "The Surgery Center`s consumer-driven model could become increasingly common as Americans look for alternatives to the traditional health care market - an unintended consequence of Obamacare."

    Also your link about the provision was before Obamacare was passed. Are you sure that made it through the final version? Don`t get me wrong I think this is a great idea it just seams like a solution driven by the high cost of Hospitals and has nothing to do with Obamacare. Especially since the surgery center in the story was around 11 years before Obamacare.
  32. Profile photo of pixiechick81
    pixiechick81 Female 30-39
    838 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    Why has the pt been fully anesthetized for carpal tunnel surgery? This type of surgery can be done with local anesthetic? Seems like a lot of risk and a lot of extra cost.
  33. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    markust123 the second page of the article has the exact quote midway down the page.
  34. Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:44 pm
    Not over charging is how the British NHS can provide a better standard of treatment for 1/3 of the cost. Plus not needing a profit margin helps.
  35. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    Also your link about the provision was before Obamacare was passed

    The article was published in April markust, Obamacare was enacted in March. March before April.
  36. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 6:12 pm
    "markust123 the second page of the article has the exact quote midway down the page."

    I didn`t see that there was a second page. Sorry about that.
  37. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3431 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 7:56 pm
    Hell we could save a fortune if we went to Petco Veterinarians instead of Hospitals.
  38. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 9:36 pm
    Now if you try to "break away from the traditional health care industry," you`ll end up in a federal prison. Thanks for that, Barry.
  39. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 3:35 am
    How about non-profit universal healthcare? Works like a charm here, it`s way cheaper and quality is the same.. My hospital bill? Around 22€ and they are getting rid of that too when it was revealed that 80% of that goes to handling that money.. So even a small payment starts to rot the system from the inside. 300$ for an injection? It doesn`t happen if the system is non-profit. Profiting from sickness is a sick practice.
  40. Profile photo of ubfwins
    ubfwins Male 18-29
    95 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    That`s cool but I don`t trust that these are actual doctors unless they play golf
  41. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:00 am
    "and then you have the nerve to somehow run around as if you`re more enlightened than everyone else. The liberal mentality continues to amaze me.`

    Actually, it`s called "I`ve lived MORE THAN TWICE as long as you have" sweetie. And, I`ve been shopping for and purchasing my own healthcare for over ten years so maybe I know a little bit about how it works.

    P.S. I`ve had cosmetic surgery and they all offered Care Credit financing because most people can`t afford it cash only. When I got my gum graft the oral surgeon also offered Care Credit financing. Maybe rich people can pay cash but the vast majority of people can`t pay thousands of dollars cash for anything.
  42. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:39 am
    Actually, it`s called "I`ve lived MORE THAN TWICE as long as you have" sweetie.
    Well shucks, isn`t that a lovely notion. I`m sorry, but simply being older lends you no credence. It simply means that you have less of an excuse for getting it wrong all these years.

    Afterall, I could just as easily say that I am a business owner, and as such, have much more experience dealing with both sides of healthcare than you.

    healthcare for over ten years so maybe I know a little bit about how it works.
    How long have you been driving? Can you explain to me how a transmission works? Didn`t think so. Would you like me to?

    When I got my gum graft the oral surgeon also offered Care Credit financing.
    Different cosmetic surgery, love. I am talking about breast enhancement, face lifts, etc. done simply because people feel bad about themselves.

  43. Profile photo of Issame
    Issame Female 30-39
    112 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    Good luck landing Care Credit. They`re ridiculously difficult to get in.
  44. Profile photo of Palfas
    Palfas Male 30-39
    411 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:06 am
    Health care =/= health insurance. The big for profit hospitals are working with the for profit health insurance companies to charge stupid prices.

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