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Date: 11/17/12 08:24 PM

110 Responses to Now You`re In Trouble, Vegan [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 15, 2012 at 8:24 pm
    Link: Now You`re In Trouble, Vegan - One more way to break vegan-edge.
  2. Profile photo of loleh
    loleh Male 30-39
    28 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:41 pm
    being a true vegan is almost impossible, so many things use animal products, even cars use animal products in the plastics and vinyls, the best you can hope for is an attempted vegan, all the same this one made me lol
  3. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:42 pm
    The point is to eliminate all unnecessary animal suffering from your lifestyle. Morality is decided by necessity.
  4. Profile photo of FinePoint
    FinePoint Male 18-29
    161 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:44 pm
    i don`t think anyone will judge if life or death is a factor...
  5. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:59 pm
    FoolsPrussia: Morality is decided by necessity.

    Then your morality isn`t really `morality` is it? If circumstances dictate what you believe is right and wrong, then you don`t have morality. What you have is meta-ethical relativism, emotivism and objectivism. Neither of those are morality.
  6. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 9:09 pm
    You`re opening up a whole can of worms here if you want to discuss whether morality is relative or absolute. My statement is a bit simplistic. I`m just referring to this particular instance, because relative morality is a way to define my position to those who do not see my perspective. It is true, though, that morality is often relative. We don`t prosecute the soldier who kills in war, though murder is a crime in every culture on earth. The reality is probably somewhere in between relative and absolute.
  7. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36668 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    @ CrakrJak - Don`t be an ass. Morality is certainly subjective. If we accept "it is immoral to kill" as an axiom, then is it wrong for a mother to kill someone in defense of her children? Is she immoral? No, of course not because circumstances make it moral.

    If you want to make it religious morality, then Thou Shalt Not Murder.... unless God ordains a holy war then it`s moral. See the old testament for details.
  8. Profile photo of Qwertyuiop95
    Qwertyuiop95 Male 18-29
    215 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 9:33 pm
    It`s okay, they only milk the snakes for Antivenin, not Antivenom. The pic says so.
  9. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 10:34 pm
    It`s the same thing qwertyuiop. Literally the same thing.
  10. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 10:35 pm
    "See the old testament for details."

    You had us until this.

    drat the old testament.
  11. Profile photo of freddyferret
    freddyferret Male 40-49
    11741 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 10:38 pm
    @ CrakrJak - Don`t be an ass.

    That`s impossible, he doesn`t know how.
  12. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1111 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 10:39 pm
    LOL pretty close minded ...who cares if they choose not to do something..no reason to ridicule or flame them over it. Their goals are admirable although perhaps taken to the extreme. Making a fuss about eating honey ergo supporting bee slave labour is a bit retarded but after watching a couple of taiwanese dog factory videos I have absolutely no problem with vegans.

    Buddy didnt eat a steak today? lets burn the faggot lol.
  13. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 10:51 pm
    when cows start biting and have poison, we would be talking of the same thing.
  14. Profile photo of drips
    drips Male 30-39
    904 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 11:05 pm
    This makes a lot of sense to me because everybody gets bitten by poisonous snakes numerous times in their lives and no one dies from diet related diseases ever.

    I eat meat and think it`s an important factor in human evolution if not general nutrition. I don`t like that factory production means animals have crappy lives before being killed to feed me. Had to decide how to balance the two.
  15. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 11:55 pm
    What the fark is antivenin?
  16. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:13 am
    an-ti-ven-in
    noun
    antivenins, plural

    An antiserum containing antibodies against specific poisons, esp. those in the venom of snakes, spiders, and scorpions

    courtesy of google
  17. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:13 am
    oh and, morality and CrakrJak and whatever
  18. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:20 am
    i laughed,

    I am a vegan, and i know that it is impossible to be 100% vegan, i can only do my best which is what i do, the same goes for my pacifism, i don`t want to kill you, but if you try and kill me..

    I know that in life i wil fail at many things, but that won`t stop me from trying.

    @gerry wel said sir,
  19. Profile photo of danagamer
    danagamer Male 30-39
    701 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:26 am
    this doesn`t even make sense
  20. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:27 am
    FP, Gerry: Don`t get me wrong here, I`m not a moral absolutist. Circumstances such as Self-defense and war are "Kill or be Killed" decisions, whether or not you eat meat is not.

    Veganism is not based on morality, it`s based on false ideology. The aim of that ideology is to reduce the value of human life and elevate that of animal life. Adherents get fed the belief that animals should have more rights than humans, are somehow more noble and moral than humans and that humans should depopulate to save the earth.
  21. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:39 am
    @CrakrJak: You`re completely missing the point of vegans. What they want is for companies to stop torturing animals for a higher profit margin. Nothing to do with elevating the status of animal life beyond that of human life.

    Letting chickens see the sun won`t make them more important than us, but it will make a huge difference for the chickens.
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6754 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:45 am
    AuburnJunky

    "drat the old testament."

    Wow we turned a post about snake venom and vegans into religious. Perfect.

    So the old testament doesn`t matter? What about when it comes to gay marriage? Isn`t God infallible and isn`t the Old Testament the word of God?
  23. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6754 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:49 am
    Jendrian

    "What they want is for companies to stop torturing animals for a higher profit margin."

    I agree with you. However, if nobody ate meat then the meat companies wouldn`t breed the animals and the animals would never exist to begin with. So what`s better a s.hitty life or no life at all?
  24. Profile photo of bendybored
    bendybored Male 18-29
    18 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:50 am
    Crakrjak also forgets that humans suck and deserve to die much more than a cow. I`m not a vegan, though. I love meat, but we could do better on how we raise and kill them. My girlfriend is a vegan and I think veganism is kind of stupid, but at the same time they have a point. She feels guilty and just loves animals and hates human beings. So do I. Hurting innocent animals to feed humans is pretty drated up, especially since so many people are just overweight, disgusting, horrible people who don`t even NEED that much food.
    I`d much rather see most humans forced into cages and kept there than animals that do nothing to damage or hurt anyone, outside of instinct and survival, instead of being greedy/psychotic/dickish.
  25. Profile photo of bendybored
    bendybored Male 18-29
    18 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:53 am
    lol Holygod. I`m pretty sure "never having been born" is better than living in a cage and being tortured and/or miserable. Seeing how the former you never had any thought process or anything at all, I`d say that is a pretty damn good choice.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:15 am
    bendy: I`m pretty sure "never having been born" is better than living in a cage and being tortured and/or miserable.

    This was a similar eugenicist argument that the Nazis used against the Jews. Perhaps you didn`t know that, but now you do.
  27. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:23 am
    jendrian: Letting chickens see the sun has no effect on them at all. A chicken doesn`t know the difference between sunlight and electric light, they simply aren`t that intelligent.

    You are `humanizing` animals, the technical term is Anthropomorphism. It`s not your fault that you feel this way either, movies, music, books and other media have been shaping public opinion about this for generations. It was being done even before the movie `Bambi` and it will unfortunately continue because we find it entertaining.
  28. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:26 am
    Btw, I`m not for animal cruelty. But we`ve let the pendulum of opinion swing way to far to the PETA view of the world.
  29. Profile photo of Bakcagain21
    Bakcagain21 Male 18-29
    560 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:45 am
    @CrakrJak Seriously we`ve let the pendulum swing to Peta`s view? Because certain animal testing has been scaled back and better standards of animal care have been introduced? I think it would be fascinating to enter a portal behind a filing cabinet and be Crarjak to see the world through his eyes...
  30. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:17 am
    venin?
  31. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:24 am
    vial*
  32. Profile photo of t4ll
    t4ll Male 30-39
    4 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:37 am
    Am I the only one who says "Nope, you`re not automatically in trouble when bit by a poisonous snake." The vegan didn`t eat the snake, there`s a difference between poisonous and venomous.
    You shouldn`t eat poisonous snakes and you shouldn`t get bit by venomous snakes. :)
  33. Profile photo of FinkStinger
    FinkStinger Male 30-39
    147 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 3:25 am
    Oh vegans, you make me laugh. You think a chicken has a rough life? You should see the widdle bunny wabbits in the lab getting sprayed in the face with all of the household cleaners you keep in your closet. Or having all the fluids (gasoline, motor oil, tranny fluid, brake fluid etc. etc.) that keep your VW moving and lubricated, massaged into their skin and left there for 12 hours. Just eat the damn steak already. It`s delicious!
  34. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 4:03 am
    @CrakrJak

    Thank you for bringing up the Nazi argument, you do realize that the arguments the nazies used to justify the holocaust are the same you use to justify the current treatement of animals, it`s also the same argument that was used to justify slavery, and female opression. In fact one of the first book written to start the womens right movement: Mary Wollstonecraf a vindication of the rights of woman, was followed shortly by Thomas Taylor, who wrote a satire called a vindication of the rights of brutes: if women have rights, why not animals too?

    veganism isn`t about placing animals higher or humans lower, it`s about the morality of inflicting suffering upon other lifeforms.
  35. Profile photo of blackcatseye
    blackcatseye Female 30-39
    685 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:20 am
    *VIAL *ANTIVENOM Vegans can spell.
  36. Profile photo of DracObi
    DracObi Male 18-29
    289 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:32 am
    @t4ll. agree
    also, that is clearly a bottle of Insulin.
  37. Profile photo of Jaeden3289
    Jaeden3289 Male 18-29
    13 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:38 am
    Blackcatseye. Actually it can be spelled Antivenin...just sayin`
  38. Profile photo of LemonCurry
    LemonCurry Male 40-49
    1106 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 6:44 am
    "You are `humanizing` animals, the technical term is Anthropomorphism."
    ------------------
    last time i checked, we are animals too (or ist there a valid argument that we are rather plants? or fungi?
  39. Profile photo of LemonCurry
    LemonCurry Male 40-49
    1106 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 6:46 am
    " It`s not your fault that you feel this way either, movies, music, books and other media have been shaping public opinion about this for generations."
    -------------------
    *chuckle* am i glad crackr`s mind is not influenced by any nonsense book that has shaped public opinion for generations ... 8-)
  40. Profile photo of drips
    drips Male 30-39
    904 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:14 am
    Some issues aren`t all or nothing. It`s about being responsible for your own `footprint` however you see fit. If all meat eaters cut their meat consumption a third there would be huge benefits (and some losses). It`s like saying you can`t recycle EVERYTHING so you might as well recycle NOTHING. That`s dum.
  41. Profile photo of ultimakewl
    ultimakewl Male 18-29
    833 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:32 am
    @drips except thats how most vegans see it
    ALL animal use is bad regardless of the reasons, purpose or methods
  42. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:28 am
    `You are `humanizing` animals, the technical term is Anthropomorphism. It`s not your fault that you feel this way either, movies, music, books and other media have been shaping public opinion about this for generations. It was being done even before the movie `Bambi` and it will unfortunately continue because we find it entertaining.`

    Pretty much every ancient culture in the world has stories that elevate animals to the level of humans. You said you`re part Native American. Who has more stories about talking animals than the Native Americans? Crows, wolves, bears, ravens, snakes. They all talk in ancient myths.
  43. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:35 am
    MrOrange: ...you do realize that the arguments the nazies used to justify the holocaust are the same you use to justify the current treatement of animals

    Wrong, Farming and animal husbandry have been around since the dawn of man. Farmers and Ranchers know that abusing animals leads to higher mortality and thus lower profits.

    veganism isn`t about placing animals higher..

    Didn`t you just do so by comparing them to woman`s suffrage and slavery?

    Animals don`t have rights, they have protections that we as humans provide. Animals become food for other animals, that`s nature. So what is so wrong that animals become food for us, especially when we protect them from nature, feed them and care for them?
  44. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:38 am
    FP: Remember, you don`t believe in `stories`, so don`t start using them to defend your leftist position.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:43 am
    Bakcagain: Animal testing makes sure our medicines aren`t poisonous, that they are effective and free from side effects. Take away that thorough testing and you get bad drugs that hurt people and lead to lawsuits that eliminate capital funds that would normally be used to further research into new cures.

    Without animal testing new drugs are not efficacious and hurt people.
  46. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:48 am
    `Remember, you don`t believe in `stories`, so don`t start using them to defend your leftist position.`

    I believe in the metaphorical truths the stories are trying to convey. I don`t believe in the literal truth behind most of them.
  47. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:07 am
    @CrakrJak

    This is why i`m always hesitant to exchange arguments with you, I DID NOT say that animal farming started since the nazies. i said that the ARGUMENTS used are the same the nazies used.

    and NO i did not make the comparison you claim i did, that was in reffernce to the _arguments_ used.

    considering your responses i somewhat lost the hope of having a decent exchange of opinions. so i`m going to play with my dick for awhille. nothing personal of course!
  48. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:10 am
    FP: Please tell me what metaphorical truth you get from the story of the Thunderbird? That birds create lightning?

    Native Americans believe in `spirit animals`, symbolic of the forces of nature. They still hunted and ate animals, followed their migrations and clothed themselves in hides and furs as well as made their homes and storage bags out of their hides as well.

    You`re attempt at trying to connect Native Americans with veganism is total fail.
  49. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:18 am
    Mr Orange I DID NOT say that animal farming started since the nazies. i said that the ARGUMENTS used are the same the nazies used.

    I didn`t say that you did, I was stating that it`s been around millenniums before the Nazis, so the arguments for animal husbandry predate them.

    You said that animals should have rights just like women and slaves, you made that pretty clear, don`t back peddle away from it now.

    i`m going to play with my dick for awhille.

    Well you are what you do, aren`t you?
  50. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:22 am
    Well, this is odd. I find myself thinking that CrakrJak has a valid point. That`s as rare as hen`s teeth.

    Although I think that LemonCurry has made a very telling point that annihilates a large part of CrakrJak`s argument:

    *chuckle* am i glad crackr`s mind is not influenced by any nonsense book that has shaped public opinion for generations ...

    There`s no way that CrakrJak (or any other theist) can rationally make any argument based on public opinion being shaped in irrational ways by books and other media. It`s a valid argument, but no theist can make that argument without being a ridiculous hypocrite.
  51. Profile photo of Corydoras87
    Corydoras87 Male 18-29
    642 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:23 am
    Remember that for the "Tastes like real meat" Tofu ,someone who has experience how real meat tastes had to test it and approve that it tastes like real meat.. therefor, animals died in the process of making your tofu burger.. now go back to chewing grass like a good vegan..
  52. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:27 am
    drips:

    You are making a very moderate argument in favour of a general reduction in meat eating.

    That is in no way similar to advocating veganism. You`re not in any way describing any vegan position, let alone advocating veganism. You`re confusing two radically different positions.
  53. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:33 am
    Remember that for the "Tastes like real meat" Tofu ,someone who has experience how real meat tastes had to test it and approve that it tastes like real meat.. therefor, animals died in the process of making your tofu burger.. now go back to chewing grass like a good vegan..

    That`s either trolling or grasping at straws.

    1) "Tastes like real meat" isn`t a meaningful phrase. It`s advertising. There`s no requirement for any testing.

    2) Even if there is some testing, it just requires one person who has eaten meat at some point in their lives to say those words and they`re valid for every product made with that processed textured vegetable protein product with those additives...or some other additives.

    3) You could stretch the phrase even further by finding someone who`s willing to say that based on chemical analysis of the product it probably tastes like real meat.
  54. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:39 am
    In addition to that, products aimed at vegans generally aren`t advertised that way anyway.

    I eat some vegetarian (and thus vegan) food. Not because I`m a vegan but because I like the taste of it. It doesn`t have to taste of meat in order to taste good. Which is a good thing because I have yet to taste any vegetarian food that tastes like meat, even cheap processed meat made from leftover animal bits scraped up and stuck together.
  55. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:53 am
    `They still hunted and ate animals, followed their migrations and clothed themselves in hides and furs as well as made their homes and storage bags out of their hides as well.

    You`re attempt at trying to connect Native Americans with veganism is total fail.`

    I never tried to connect the two. Native Americans, and most human cultures, hunted and relied upon animals because it was necessary to do so. In many instances today, we do not need to consume animals. Again it comes down to necessity.

    Stories like that of the Thunderbird are ancient attempts at defining the world. To an ancient culture, it could be taken as literal truth because it made sense within the reality they existed in. Today, it can only be viewed as metaphor, because our reality has been redefined by science.

    What do you think is the meaning behind the talking snake from the Garden of Eden? Should that be taken literally or is it just a metaphorical representation, just like the Thun
  56. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 10:40 am
    @Crakrjak

    "Well you are what you do, aren`t you?"

    astute observations skills, and yess i`d rather be a wanker then preaching to the choir. i don`t like fiddling with little boy`s

    (and no that pun is not ment for you, i just couldn`t waste it)
  57. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 11:00 am
    Firstly, tofu isn`t a meat replacement, it has been used for a very long time and just happens to be suitable for synthesising meat products.

    Secondly, Corydoras, you do come across as being a bit of a moron.

    Thirdly, my tuppenceworth. Regular meat and dairy consumption is bad for people and the environment, it is also unsustainable. The scientific and ethical arguments fall firmly in favour of a meat and dairy free diet. However people get quite defensive about their bad habits and will continue to suffer ill health and damage to the environment regardless. Stupid really.
  58. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    @CrakrJak: as usual, you`re talking out of your ass Link here, quote:
    [quote">Several factors influence the chicken`s ability to lay eggs. Although nutrition is very important for egg laying, the effect of sunlight is greater.[/quote">

    It`s not anthropomorphizing, it`s just not being an ass.
  59. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4348 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    lol
  60. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:33 pm
    jendrian: Chickens do not know the difference between sunlight and electric light, that`s been proved for a hundred years. Quit being obtuse.
  61. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 3:02 pm
    Crakr, with regards to native American culture and animals; they did eat animals and use their remains for tools, but showing respect to those animals was (and still is) a very important part of ceremonies and in in the using of said animal. Knowing that the animals are important to our survival and therefore vital is one of the reasons they are so commonly anthropamorphized.

    As for the chicken argument; their knowledge of the difference between natural and artificial light may not be there. I just don`t know for certain. But like most land dwelling animals, they do get certain nutrition from the suns rays which make them both more mentally and physically healthy.
  62. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    By the way, I am neither vegan nor a member of PETA. I just really love chicken, and would like to think that the little lady had a pleasant life before being slaughtered for my consumption.
  63. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    cobra: Knowing that the animals are important to our survival and therefore vital is one of the reasons they are so commonly anthropamorphized.

    But that`s not the only reason animals are anthropomorphized, many times it`s done to promote anti-hunting and pro-PETA agendas. I`m proud that my ancestors were hunters and that they did so sustainably. I`m also glad that endangered animals are protected. Mankind are meat-eaters and we have canine and bicuspid teeth to do so, we aren`t rabbits and our digestive system is made for eating protein.

    Veganism is an extreme diet with an agenda that has little to do with being kind to animals.
  64. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 3:52 pm
    crakr, its only recently in human history that animals have been anthropomorphized for an agenda to save animals.

    As for why we have the teeth we have; well if i remember correctly from earlier discussions, you believe in literal bible verse, and we will not agree on that one.
  65. Profile photo of NOT_A_BEAR
    NOT_A_BEAR Male 18-29
    62 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 4:39 pm
    Snakes aren`t poisonous, damn it! Many are venomous, but none are poisonous. And that one up the top is a carpet python; it isn`t even one of the venomous species! Boooooooo!
  66. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 6:05 pm
    @cobrakiller if you live anywhere north of the midline of the united states, past october you get no nutrients from sunlight because the intensity is too low to jumpstart the vitamin D process. Hence why milk is enriched with Vitamin D....So technically the chicken`s don`t either :P Errr I guess if they even live that long...
  67. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 6:56 pm
    `we have canine and bicuspid teeth to do so`

    Many herbivorous mammals have canines. Horses, gorillas, etc. All our closest ancestors are either herbivores or mostly herbivorous. You certainly won`t find any other primate that eats the same level of meat as humans.

    Meat consumption was a choice in our evolutionary history, most likely for extra caloric intake and altering climates. It certainly is not necessary.
  68. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:11 pm
    inaria, this is true. however, it is possible that like us, they may store the necessary nutrients to be used into the winter. I am not Ornithologist however, so I cannot say for sure.
  69. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:13 pm
    foolsprussia, that is mostly true, though many primates do eat insects. While many wouldnt consider this a carnivorous diet, it is definitely not strictly herbivorous.

    Like you said, meat eating was probably done for high calorie content, which is why as a whole we still crave it. Just like sweets.
  70. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:38 pm
    @Cobra: Yep. Note that I said "or mostly herbivorous."
  71. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 7:45 pm
    FP & Cobra: Humans have been eating meat a lot longer than you might have realized. In fact Anemia, from the lack of eating meat, has shown up in bones 1.5 million years old. Here
  72. Profile photo of Pyrosisflame
    Pyrosisflame Male 18-29
    592 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:16 pm
    most stupid upload ever.
  73. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:06 am
    Meat consumption was a choice in our evolutionary history, most likely for extra caloric intake and altering climates. It certainly is not necessary.

    In all likelihood, adapting to eat a diet higher in meat is what allowed humans to become what we are. Herbivorous primates have to spend the vast majority of their time consuming food, because the calorie intake of plants is very inefficient. You spend nearly as much energy just chewing and digesting the food as the food has to give you. Meat, however, has a very high calorie to effort ratio.

    Having more efficient sources of food allowed humans to devote energy to other things--like higher brain functions.

    One might could argue that meat consumption isn`t needed, but no one can argue that it isn`t natural for humans. We lack the strong jaw muscles of other primates for constant chewing. We lack the ability to properly digest cellulose, the primary energy source in plants.
  74. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 6:37 am
    I`m not exactly sure how not cramming a bunch of chickens into the space of a drawer is anthropomorphizing them...it`s not about inflating their status, it`s just about being humane. I have no problem with farming/eating animals, but you don`t *have* to do it in such a way as to prevent some semblance of a decent (though short-lived) life. And just because @Crakr *claims* (because he hasn`t proven anything) chickens can`t distinguish different kinds of light doesn`t mean their bodies don`t know the difference, as @jendrian showed.
  75. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:05 am
    *not wanting to cram them in a drawer.
  76. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:08 am
  77. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:14 am
  78. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:37 am

  79. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:40 am
    Sorry mcgovern, but i have the destinct feeling i suround myself with better company..


  80. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 7:59 am
    `In all likelihood, adapting to eat a diet higher in meat is what allowed humans to become what we are.`

    I don`t dispute that. My point is that it allowed us to become what we are, which is, to many people, a highly evolved animal that has the ability to make moral decisions. Evolution is commonly used to apply to biological processes, but I like to apply the term to society and morality. We (for the most part) have evolved away from condoning slavery and racial bias, and our society is evolving away from homophobia as well. I just include animal consumption as a future step in that evolutionary process.
  81. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:16 am

  82. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:16 am

  83. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:29 am
    @FP: I don`t care much for comparing society`s "evolution" with biological evolution. Our bodies are not built for a plant-based diet, plain and simple. The thing is that we`re so good at adapting, that we can supplement deficiencies from vegetarian diets with other protein sources and vitamin supplements etc. Problem is, people are lazy, so I doubt you`ll convince the majority to go veggy, and that`s not even counting those like myself who just like meat.
  84. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:38 am
    @MrOrange

  85. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:40 am
    @McGovern1981 Now you`re just being childish, you started the bashing with ludicrous gifs about vegans and when the heat got to much for you.. you respond with; OMG! vegetarians always say they are better then others. it`s time to hoist up your skirt, rip your tampon out and grow a pair.
  86. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:59 am
    @MrOrange

    So what your saying is your superior cool story bro!
  87. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 9:22 am
    @McGovern1981

    Thank you for the superfluous note from the department of the bleeding obvious. And thank you for using the internet, it would be a shame if they had to cut down trees to print that precious insight. See you do care! Thanks again buddy :)
  88. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 9:26 am
    I just thought of a way of using your own rhetoric against you:
    jendrian: Chickens do not know the difference between sunlight and electric light, that`s been proved for a hundred years. Quit being obtuse.

    CrakrJak: Chickens (and other animals used for food) have a nervous system that allows them to feel when they are being kicked, an olfactory system that allows them to smell the carcasses of other rotting, diseased chickens around, and because they are animals with similar organs as we humans have, they get sick from the conditions they are kept in.

    Everyone knows that.

    Nobody is saying "stop eating meat" (except vegans), we are not thinking that they are just as good as people. We are thinking that we, as people, find it abhorrent that you defend those practices.
  89. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:22 am
    The thing is that we`re so good at adapting, that we can supplement deficiencies from vegetarian diets with other protein sources and vitamin supplements etc.

    We`re even better at adapting than that, now that we have modern information distribution, farming and transportation technology.

    A human with access to enough information and large enough quantities of a large enough variety of plants (which is made possible with that modern technology) can create a diet that is adequate in all nutrition except for vitamin B12. That`s the only supplement that`s absolutely required with a vegetarian diet, regardless of knowledge, variety, quantity, careful mixing of plants or anything else. There is no human-usable plant source of B12. None at all. Supplement or suffer and die.

    Humans are highly adaptable omnivores with that adaptability boosted by modern technology...technology made possible by eating meat.
  90. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:08 am
    @Angilion
    (which is made possible with that modern technology)
    That same technology is the reason why vegans need b12 suplements, the soil is to sterile and so the bacteria (which is how it enters the foodchain) which produces b12 isn`t present
    I`d say that`s a small price to pay .)

    As for your argument about information, i agree but i`d urge any person regardless of their diet to do some research and not just assume that becuase you eat meat you are meeting all your nutritional requirments.
  91. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:23 am
    jendrian: Hey, I never said I was an advocate of overcrowding chickens in tiny metal pens or abusing them.

    I live out in rural Illinois, we have plenty of space and all the animals I`ve seen on farms, out here, are raised responsibly. There is simply no reason to overcrowd them or abuse them. The 4H and FFA clubs teach the principles of treating animals with respect and I`ve yet to hear of any large cases of farmers committing animal abuse around here.
  92. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:27 am
    MrOrange: I`d rather get my B12 and other vitamins from my food instead of in a capsule. Besides Bacon, Steak and Lamb chops taste good.
  93. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:48 am
    @Crakrjak

    Each to his own. and i`m glad you live in an area where according to you animals are raised responsibly. Must be nice to live in wide open spaces. i live in the concrete jungle (not by choice) and it _sucks_
  94. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:57 am
    crakr, I think that is what most people want; to have the farm animals treated well. I have dated a couple of vegetarian girls who werent preachy about not eating animals, only treating them well while they are alive.

    I understand it is an odd concept for some people. To think about how well something is treated before it is killed and consumed, but it is rather important.
  95. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    MrOrange: I`m hoping that one day our technology will make it so that most people won`t have to commute or live in concrete jungles. My philosophy is that mankind was never meant to live and work like ants and the stress involved in such an environ is killing us.
  96. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    @cobrakiller,
    I am a vegan, and i have no problem with aboriginals or the san people of africa killing wildlife to sustain themselves, this is survival and the animal in question led a natural life up to that point. What disgusts me is depraving _any_ lifeform of the freedom to adhere to it`s instincts or basicly to do what it needs to do to live the life it`s suposed to live. add abuse, fear, chemicals, etc etc. and it makes me sick to the core. thats just me.
  97. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    @crakrjak,

    We finally found something we can shake hands on, i`m with you 100% on that.
    The courses i`m taking now, led me to some research on how mental instabillities/ diseases rise expantationly in major cities/ our current exposure to technology. (and exposure to chemicals such as food preservatives but i don`t wanna sound like a freaking hippy) scarry stuff when you think about it.
  98. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    Cobrakiller,

    i think the easiest way to put it would be that:
    i believe in quality of life, not quantity.
    which is also why i`m pro euthanasia, if you know you`re going to suffer, you have the right to end it, same goes for abortion, if that kid stands no hope in hell of having a normal /painfree live then spare it it`s suffering, and why i believe in black/women/animal/religious/sexual liberation.

    damn, i do sound like a hippy.

  99. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    Told ya....
  100. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    @CrakrJak: well, that was all I was saying. Glad to see we agree at least on that.
  101. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    MrOrange, you do sound like a hippy, but I am with you brother.
  102. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm
    MrOrange: i`m pro euthanasia, if you know you`re going to suffer, you have the right to end it, same goes for abortion

    That`s where we part ways, that philosophy leads down a dark path, that of eugenics and I can`t abide in that. I believe people like Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking would disagree with your analysis of `quality of life`.
  103. Profile photo of itsrainy
    itsrainy Male 18-29
    1 post
    November 19, 2012 at 4:57 pm
    CrakrJak: I would not say I`m pro euthanasia but definitely pro physician assisted suicide. Reeves and Hawking are only two people. I don`t think they would say their suffering is/was unbearable to them, but others might. What is right for one is not necessarily right for all. Why should the government say what I can and cannot do with my life?
  104. Profile photo of x13purplesta
    x13purplesta Female 30-39
    235 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    I think that if something is going to give it`s life for you, it should be treated with respect and have some dignity and not suffer for it`s entire life until you need to eat it, inject it with some disease, whatever. My eating and shopping habits reflect MY choices..I only have to be able to live with myself, morally. I`m not a vegan but I do wonder if it was life and death what a vegan would choose in the case this photo brings up. I would hope that they would choose to LIVE.
    Compensation to nature could be made in some way, I would think (volunteering, donation, something useful). I`m not religious, so I don`t mean this is THAT way, but I think a vegan could/would be forgiven for choosing to TAKE the antidote, by family, friends, etc.
  105. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:16 pm
    @cobrakiller

    Thanks brother
  106. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:30 pm
    @CrakrJak

    And i`m glad you disagree, becuase it is a slippery slope and it needs to be watched vigantly. I don`t agree on all circumstances either. with euthanasia, a person is old enough to make his own choice, and over here we have quite a strict procedure were the person needs to make a request and two doctors have to agree that the person is suffering is without relief. Having seen my mother die of cancer, i am reliefed that the option is there for those who want it. With abortion you are making the quality of life descision for someone else and that is a dangerous situation, on the other hand there are clear cut cases where suffering would be the only outcome of birth (such as a harlequin baby) (mind you, there is one case where the kid lived up to 11) but in some cases i have the feeling that abortion is used as a birthcontrol measure, and with that i dissagree. And that is why in my opinion, you need two opossing opinions,
  107. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:32 pm
    And i think we need those opposing opinions on just about anything, to hopefully get a "fair" balance.

    as with anything, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly.
  108. Profile photo of UDUMASS
    UDUMASS Male 30-39
    60 posts
    November 23, 2012 at 11:12 am
    This kind of logic reminds me of Fire Marshal Bill from In Living Color
  109. Profile photo of bendybored
    bendybored Male 18-29
    18 posts
    November 25, 2012 at 2:02 am
    CrakrJak I don`t pay much attention to this site, especially comments, nor did I read any replies besides like the first 3 to mine, but do I care that it was the same argument as used by the Nazis? I don`t see how just because the argument was used by them makes it invalid. Also, they didn`t make anyone "unborn", they killed and tortured them. So your point is invalid completely by there. Also, they did a lot of science experiments which helped us, but I don`t see us rejecting anything they found out. Great reason to make more lives miserable, how about we breed humans to live like them? They`re worse than humans and a way bigger problem anyway. I don`t see any animals damaging the entire planet for greed and lazines like America. And I`m a closer to republican, American meat eating guy. Its just pretty stupid to be such a dick then treat humans like gods. Too long, I get it.
  110. Profile photo of bendybored
    bendybored Male 18-29
    18 posts
    November 25, 2012 at 2:05 am
    worst than animals. Sorry. I`m pretty lazy as well.

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