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Date: 11/04/12 01:27 PM

59 Responses to It`s A Wonderful Life (With Capitalism)

  1. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Link: It`s A Wonderful Life (With Capitalism) - Imagine a world where government tried to do everything for you.
  2. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    Who doesn`t like capitalism? I love capitalism. But capitalism needs to be regulated. You can`t let corporations do whatever they wanted. If they did the Breakfast cereal and hair gel wouldn`t have ingredients on the packaging, would be made as cheaply as possible, there would be collusion among competitors to inflate the price, and they would be manufactured by 8 yr olds making 50 cents an hour while all waste and byproduct was dumped directly into the environment.

    A corporation`s job is to make as much money as possible. Someone has to lay ground rules for the ways that money can and can`t be made.
  3. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    F*CK YEAH!

  4. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 2:05 pm
    Wow, the misinformation superhighway has reached an all time low.

    People who are against capitalism aren`t against corporations making money. They are against corporations controling the government, which is what has capitalism has become.
  5. Profile photo of FoSchizle
    FoSchizle Male 18-29
    330 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    HolyGod: That right there is the fallacy of Nirvana. That 8 year old making 50c a day is a hell of a lot better than the very real alternatives of child prostitution or farm labor which is much harder and obviously much more dangerous. They gotta work as kids to make a living, so those "sweat shops" are the best choice they have. They wouldn`t work there if that wasn`t their best opportunity.

    Some regulation, fine. Ingredients on the boxes is minimal and very useful. Even protecting the environment is good. But when you put these unrealistic regulations it drives up costs for everyone. Economic prosperity comes from low regulation. Fact of life.
  6. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    822 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 2:48 pm
    I live with a man who is about to get a Ph.D. in Environmental Science. You would not believe, nor would you want to know about all the thoughtless things corporations would let happen to the environment in the name of profit if they could get away with it and had no restrictions.

    Capitalism is an ok system, but it`s like a savage dog, it needs a leash.
  7. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:24 pm
    I`ve grown weary of this so-called debate between capitalism and... whatever is put forth as the opposite.

    Capitalism means one thing and one thing only: the private ownership of the means of production in an economy which, when coupled with the economically rational incentive of maximizing one`s economic position, results in profit-seeking behavior.

    There are numerous forms of capitalism, including laissez-faire and state capitalism. None of these preclude regulation of some sort. `Economic freedom` in the classic view of economic welfare analysis relates to the ability of consumers to have freedom to choose their own consumption elements; it does not relate to the ability of producers to have complete freedom in their engagement of the market. Numerous cases of detrimental effects to markets/economies that result from lack of regulation have been cited; the most prominent of these relate to cases of asymmetric information.

  8. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:27 pm


    And, to those who say that laissez-faire capitalism results in greater economic welfare, there is NO economic theory or concept that supports such a notion. The closest - and usually the most cited - concept that relates to this is the analysis of microeconomic systems which show lower economic welfare (called `social welfare`, in the Marshallian framework), but any trained economist worth anything will tell you that this result cannot be extrapolated in any simple way to macroeconomics or general equilibrium outcomes.

    The bottom line is that the notion that regulation leads to lower - or higher - economic welfare is purely conjecture from a theoretical standpoint. Empirical analysis demonstrates that some forms of regulation can have beneficial effects, while other forms can have negative effects. However, these empirical analyses should not be extrapolated to address the duality of regulatory extremes.
  9. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:30 pm
    Some of the biggest costs relating to regulation don`t actually relate to compliance itself; instead, outdated governmental systems (both in terms of processes and infrastructure) make it excessively costly to *demonstrate* compliance. I`ve read of studies that between 30% and 50% of the cost of regulatory compliance in some industries is reporting costs - NOT functional compliance itself.
  10. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36665 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Capitalism was great. We should go back to using that system.

    "Capitalsm" is a free market open to any who have the drive, mind to create/sell something. What we have now is Corporatism. Which is a very few mega-corporations control everything, including the media and politicians. It`s very nearly totalitarianism under corportate-leaders.

    But, Corporations Are People... so says Mittens.
  11. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    The logic here is apparently: .... I don`t know.. Completely retarded is what it is..

    I`m pretty sure no one wants Stalin era Communism.. But apparently, that`s the only alternative to unregulated capitalism.. So there you have it folks. You`re screwed either way..
  12. Profile photo of Nageki
    Nageki Male 30-39
    110 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:53 pm
    Propaganda for Capitalism instead of against other things... Well against Communism also, but thinly veiled none the less... That`s kind of a flip...
  13. Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 4:58 pm
    So a non-capitalist economy makes you fall out of bed, food can only taste bad, everything must be dirty and broken, crime must be higher. Pull the other one it has bells on it.

    Also I can bet the "discussion" on there site is anything but a discussion.
  14. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1110 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 5:18 pm
    Yeah nothing like living alone in a 2 story house and having the freedom to not work and go to protests to fill your time instead. This also seems to be totalitarian/authoritarian existence... Only difference is instead of money its a struggle for power...ergo capitalism still exists.
  15. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 6:38 pm
    Cajun, you know I normally respect you for being more open minded, but this submission is Crakrjak/5Cats level of stupidity.

    We`ve had more financial regulations at previous points in our history. Glass-Steagall was around since the 1930s and during the entire cold war...during which we fought and defeated communism. So I don`t get the narrative here. We put a few regulations in place and suddenly we live in North Korea?
  16. Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 6:40 pm
    Looks like a lot of 3rd world "capitalist" markets
  17. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 6:45 pm
    I would also like to add that we fought communism while our taxes were at their highest point. So now, marginally higher taxes and financial regulation = socialist nightmare!
  18. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 6:52 pm
    Public and Private sectors have to be in constant competition with one another, there must be tension between the two.....checking and balancing each other in a way. Capitalism requires this to be healthy, true capitalism is fair and equal competition, which does require a government. Otherwise, it will be controlled by a mafia or something which is so anti-capitalism. However, the government has to have boundaries, as do the corporations.
  19. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 6:57 pm
    FoolsPrussia, I believe you`re talking about the 90%ish tax rates in the 40`s and 50`s. Nobody paid that rate, though. Indeed, the top tax rate remained as high as 70% until 1980. Loopholes and deductions were e`rywhere.
  20. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 7:12 pm
    `FoolsPrussia, I believe you`re talking about the 90%ish tax rates in the 40`s and 50`s. Nobody paid that rate, though. Indeed, the top tax rate remained as high as 70% until 1980. Loopholes and deductions were e`rywhere.`

    Yes, I`m talking about that top tax rate. But that`s what people on the left are talking about now as well. We aren`t even allowed to have that conversation without the socialism word coming up.
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 7:22 pm
    FoolsPrussia: You just don`t get it. Sure we do need some regulation, but when regulation and bureaucracy becomes too burdensome it kills jobs, entrepreneurship, investment capital and consumer choice.

    You can gripe about greed forever. Greed will always exist no matter what political system is in place. Better that that greed be an engine for capitalist prosperity than of socialist repression.
  22. Profile photo of Fancysucksss
    Fancysucksss Male 18-29
    1048 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 7:51 pm
    I have a plan that just might work. Give everyone what they need. Nothing more and nothing less. A house, car, energy blah blah blah. abolish the monetary system to handle that greed. In turn for all this equal giving of the worlds resources, humans just have to contribute to society with whatever they hold an interest in, or are just really damn good at. Then we can focus on making everything better without worrying about profit. Clean energy, better technologies, badasser science. We can focus on learning knowledge for knowledge sake and also gain the chance of spreading humanity out into the universe.

    There is a lot out there for the taking in the known universe. But as long as everyone is just a consumer of so much pointless crap,I don`t think we will be getting beyond our solar system the way we are going with the lies and keeping people ignorant, biased and so extreme with their beliefs they would kill a man for it.

    That`s just a dream of mine. Probably won`t
  23. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6746 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 8:27 pm
    Fancysucksss
    `
    " In turn for all this equal giving of the worlds resources, humans just have to contribute to society with whatever they hold an interest in"

    You are out of your f.ucking mind. We`d have 7 billion artists, athletes, musicians and actors and not a single janitor.
  24. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 8:28 pm
    `You just don`t get it. Sure we do need some regulation, but when regulation and bureaucracy becomes too burdensome it kills jobs, entrepreneurship, investment capital and consumer choice.`

    We did the low-regulation thing and it basically destroyed the world economy.
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 9:54 pm
    FoolsPrussia: We did the wrong `less regulation` thing. We allowed banks to bundle mortgages and turn them into trade-able funds. This was a bad idea and we should`ve known better.

    But as far as `less regulation` in other areas it has worked quite well. The internet is a fine example of how `less regulation` has been a boon to our economy.
  26. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 10:53 pm
    seems that regulations on freedom of movement, creation and creativity should be a lot less and regulations on the flow of money should be a lot higher.. At this point itn time it is the way that capitalism is protected that hampers the grow of the economy in general and people in specifics.
    creativity is being hampered by the current copyright laws. Money makes more money then the production of goods.

    And this movie is so wrong in so many ways.. most of europe worked (and some still do) on a socialistic basis. And unlike a bunch of people that think it is imposible, socialism is inherently a democratic princeple where as capitalism has always been recognized as a plutocraty

    So yeah, keep defending teh capitalistic ways, they have been so good for you..

    The one thing i do agree with defenders of capitalism is this, it isnt the worst w
  27. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 10:53 pm
    OUTSTANDING!
    6:00 "Take away the carrot, and all you got left is the stick" = brilliant!
    ANYONE with knowledge of the Former Soviet Union will attest that his is 100% factual!

    Now to read the butt-hurt wailing of the IAB Libtard Crew...

    First up? @RobSwindol: Oh yes! That`s exactly what OWS demanded! Here, have a flying pig @Rob!

    @gerry1? Shocked to see you! NO Corporations are not people! It`s the people who OWN the corporations who do not LOSE THEIR RIGHTS by pooling their money (and thus forming a corporation).
    THUS: A corporation is allowed to legally OWN LAND, for example.

    @Arcval: You live close enough to the USSR, East GErmany? You ought to know.

    Cajun, this submission is Crakrjak/5Cats level of stupidity.
    Woah! @FoolsPrussia, them`s fightin` words!

    @fancysucks: LOLZ! Sounds like the "Star Trek" Utopia! (which made ZERO economic sense btw...)
  28. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 10:59 pm
    oops, 0part of my text was gone.

    The one thing i do agree with defenders of capitalism, it isnt the worst way of doing things, but comparing the removal of capitalism with the introduction of a totalitarian regime with no growth, creativity and enjoyment is not even an oversimplification, its comparing a world with apples to a world with no fruit at all.

    hmm, ok, so after starting that broken sentence again, i found i had some more to share ;-)
  29. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 11:04 pm
    and as a responce to you 5cats
    Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:53:23 PM
    OUTSTANDING!
    6:00 "Take away the carrot, and all you got left is the stick" = brilliant!
    ANYONE with knowledge of the Former Soviet Union will attest that his is 100% factual!

    erm, not to defend stalinsim, comunism or any other form of represive regime but one of the main reasons the switching to democracy in the former ussr countries is because it went from one extreme to the other, most people ( well, mostly the older peope ) would rather have their old comunistic regime back, with health care, housing, the posibility of doing sports for free, organized holidays compared to none at all.

    They will tell you that it would indeed suck to go to stores and find very little to chose from, but it still beets going to shops and not being able to buy anything because there is no money.
    Could it be that neither system is good? that being against Capitalism doesnt mean you wan
  30. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 4, 2012 at 11:05 pm
    and again i lose part of my post,, the counter said i was well within the limit of chars, owel..

    Anyway, being against capitalism doesnt mean you want Stalin`s communism..
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 1:40 am
    @Modwain: It a weird thing at IAB: the "counter" isn`t all that accurate, so around 900 you`re likely to start to run out. 850 even, if you`ve got quotes or images.
    We just grin and endure it.

    People use Stalin`s Communism because it`s about as far away from Capitalism as one can get.
    Holodomor, forced relocations, 5 year plans (that ALL failed).
    Later came overcrowded & crappy apartments, beurocracy (and corruption) beyond imagination, a 5-year wait to buy a car, hours in the bread line, hours in every other line...

    Old Russian People are funny: the "old days" are ALWAYS better than today!
    "Under the Tsar we didn`t have wait for bus! Bus come on time! Now so slow, is terrible!"

    Capitalism isn`t perfect! But it`s better than everything else out there.
  32. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 1:41 am
    What a load of poo... It doesn`t mean that the country is going full communist without capitalism. And if things keep going the way they are now, this looks just like full blown capitalism where you have no humanrights unless you got capital... Except that it doesn`t, there are zero countries that are 100% capitalist afaik, most are a mix of socialism and capitalism with couple of dictatorships thrown in..

    Don`t really believe in this but it has some truth in to it: "The best system of government is a good dictatorship. There just haven`t been any good dictators." Don`t remember where i heard this or who said it, most likely it wasn`t me.
  33. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:02 am
    Thing is, 5cats, i dont disagree when you point out all these negative things about stalin communistic rusia. I agree with you on these things.. The socialistic bit of communistic rusia was that even the people at the bottem had some rights still. the western democracies had oftend argued with the ussr about what was and was not a valid right for the individual and often they disagreed.
    I dont want to say that the stalinistic way of communisme was good, because i really feel it wasnt. But to say it is worse then the plutocracy we see now, or corporatism as it now adays seems to get called is simply wrong. they are both terrible. and they are both terrible for the same reason. At heart, they are totalitarian. they care only for what they care and everything else is expendable or ignorable.
    Personaly i like the european way of socialistic democrasy with liberitarian influences and still that isnt the best way to go.
  34. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:08 am
    It seems that humans need rules to abide by, for if those rules arent there the law of the jungle, or survival of the fittest or what ever you wanna call it comes back to rule. Thing is, it causes the weaker ones in our society to suffer.

    Thing is though, what people fail to understand, is that there are always weaker people. And the next one could be you because all the weaker ones below you have allready fallen.
    The human is a group animal. And with most group animals, the herd rules. Funny enough though, some of the humans like to identify themselves with hunting animals rather then herd animals, and then not even the hunting herd animals but the more individual acting ones. But there are very few animals indeed that hunt and prey on their own.

    Personaly, i think that this is the biggest problem with capitalism/plutocaties/corporationism. The idea that someone has that he wants to prosper is a positive one. But ....
  35. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:14 am
    if you want to prosper at the expense of others, if you feel you have more rights to it then others, it is in itself selfdestructive, for if it is true for you, it will also be true for the one that will destroy you.

    And here in lies teh biggest problem. this is why so many huge corporations aim to become monopolists, why so many companies urge governments to change the laws in their projected advantage. like, for example, the copyright laws that have been changed to help the disney corporation, stopping peeps to use stories even though this is the way that disney got big to start with.

    But, capitalism and communism arent the two only options, and no matter how much i detest capitalism, i do realize that good comes from it too. It needs to be protected against though, and it needs to be protected against itself.
    Just like communism can have good things, so does capitalism. But as a totalitarian form, it will always fail
  36. Profile photo of drawman61
    drawman61 Male 50-59
    7739 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 3:28 am
    S`funny coz it`s true
  37. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 6:20 am
    Crakr: "Better that that greed be an engine for capitalist prosperity than of socialist repression."

    Yeah, damn us socialist Canadians and our repressive socialist regime that has allowed us to have more economic freedom than you guys. Socialism is killing capitalism as we know it!!
  38. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 7:52 am
    I disagree, but overall I prefer a free market or barter system, where you have a say in what you pay and are paid. No system is perfect, some are worse than others, but if it works for you, don`t knock it.
  39. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 8:05 am
    patchgrabber-From your article:

    now leaps and bounds ahead of the United States thanks to the gradual shrinking of the Canadian government since the mid-1990s as America’s just got bigger

    Hardly what I`d call "Socialism" buddy. But keep up the good work.
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 9:18 am
    @CreamK: Churchill? Sounds like something he`d say, and he was a "Man OF Words" - highly quotable.

    @Modwain: You make many valid points, I won`t nit-pick the details I don`t agree with :-)
    I`d add this:
    Capitalism: The weak suffer
    Communism: The weak suffer, then they get sent to deathcamps.
    Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro: all the same.

    @EgalM: The "Money system" evolved naturally from Barter, eh? Modern capitalism (on a personal scale, individuals or family units) is identical to the Barter system, except with money not haggeling.

    @patchy: C`mon, admit it: Without our gigantic & porosperous Southern Cousins Canada would be POOR.
    As the US economy goes? So also goes Canada! We`re a strudy tugboat that`s chained to a humongous supertanker. If it goes down? We`re going too.
  41. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 11:05 am
    With out Capitalism would have never had slavery or the USA and all its genocide
  42. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 11:09 am
    dm2754: Wow, way to jump the shark there man. Off the ramp and right into the lakeside trees.
  43. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 11:55 am
    well, teh weak suffer, that i agree with you 5 cats, and in communism, not everyone got sent to death camps. Same as in capitalism not everyone dies on the streets out of hunger or teh elements taking their tol.
    Castro is the only one in that list i have second thoughts abuot though. not good, but not as bad.

    And indeed, the economic crisis as it is so often called started with the banks in the usa. Only two money hungry banks didnt get saved and we are still paying for it.. thanks capitalism
  44. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 11:59 am
    "And indeed, the economic crisis as it is so often called started with the banks in the usa. Only two money hungry banks didnt get saved and we are still paying for it.. thanks capitalism"

    This is wrong. As I have stated many times before, it was the government intervention requiring GSE`s to buy increasingly larger quantities of subprime mortgages that led to the collapse.

    This is the exact opposite of capitalism. I`m happy to further prove you wrong if you would like.
  45. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 12:11 pm
    @CrakrJak
    did you forget Capitalism said it was okay to own someone a meak the do what ever you them to do.

    did you forget Capitalism said it was okay to kill pepole and take their stuff.

    did you forget Capitalism said it was okay drat a 9 yr old for money

    usa usa usa
  46. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 12:25 pm
    Capitalism said it was okay to own someone a meak the do what ever you them to do.
    If both parties agree to the contract, then this is true. Otherwise, it is false.

    Capitalism said it was okay to kill pepole and take their stuff.
    No it didn`t; you are confusing economic and social issues. Murder is a social issue, not an economic one. This would be like me saying that the stock market allowed us to ban gay marriage.

    Capitalism said it was okay drat a 9 yr old for money
    Once again, you are confusing issues. Capitalism is an economic theory, not a social one. Therefore, capitalism never "said" a thing about prostitution or children. Capitalism purposefully allows for society to choose right and wrong.

    usa usa usa
    You`re an unintelligible idiot.
  47. Profile photo of Qystein
    Qystein Male 18-29
    159 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    this propaganda like the world saw back in the 1930s..
    If things were this easy and black and white then there would be noone actually supporting the other side.
    Saying it in the style and intellectually level as the maker of this movie does: This dumb, video be stupid!
  48. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    HumanAction: Thanks for handling my light work. :-)
  49. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm
    feel free to explain to me how it isnt capitalism but the us government that caused the banks to fail human, by all means feel free to try, i am nothing, if not ready to learn.

    Oh, capitalism is not merely an economic issue ,its a social one too.. especially in the usa, where any form of critisism on capitalism is seen as a promotion of communism/socialism
    . And if, with a capitalistic caper you can make someone else pay for something you earn of, you will.. so yeah, in effect stealing `candy ` from a child. and you may disagree with it, but there is no way around it. if you want to buy a home, you need a loan, for there is no way you can earn that money with a normal job. oh, and lets say you morgage your house, guess who ups the prices on houses? so yeah, capitalism isnt just an economic system, claiming this means you miss half of it at least
  50. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    HumanAction: "it was the government intervention requiring GSE`s to buy increasingly larger quantities of subprime mortgages that led to the collapse."

    Wow, how can you even survive with such a slanted, simplistic, myopic view of the world?
  51. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    @chalket: "Wow, how can you even survive with such a slanted, simplistic, myopic view of the world?"

    Being right so often helps.
  52. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    @Modwain: First, let me mention that your premise regarding mortgages is incorrect. A family with reasonable income that chooses to live within their means is certainly capable of saving enough money to buy a house without a mortgage. Of course, the key is to live within your means, invest your resources intelligently, and save.

    I am all too glad to teach you about the current financial crisis. Mind you, there are many additional interventions that we can discuss if you would like, but for this next section I will focus on the involvement of the GSE`s Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
  53. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    @Modwain: In 1992, Congress instructed the GSEs to to purchase more low-income (subprime) mortgages. Four years later, HUD forced the GSEs to devote 42% of their mortgage financing to these borrowers. By 2005, it was 52%. In addition, by that time, 22% of all mortgage purchases were required to be "special affordable" loans.

    This had the effect of encouraging private lending to the subprime and Alt-A markets. Afterall, business is only deterred by potential loss and will otherwise seek profits. Essentially, the GSEs formed a "safety net" for bad lending. Had the GSE`s not purchased these loans (that were likely to default), private lendors would not have issued the credit so willingly.

    Should we go on?
  54. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    @chalket: Now that I`ve at least provided some intelligent conversation providing evidence for my perspective, let`s hear it from you?

    Oh, and please, be specific, detailed, and concise. Your failure to do so will incidicate that you`re a moron.

    As a final note, I am not looking for an article from someone more intelligent than you. I would like to hear your personal thoughts and rationale behind your beliefs. Although, I expect that this will be too much to ask.
  55. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    Lastly, since there seems to be debate regarding whether or not capitalism is an economic issue, a social issue, or both, allow me to offer you the definition from Merriam-Webster:

    Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.

    Not a single mention of it being a social issue. Of course, this is to be expected since capitalism refers to an economic system. Perhaps it is you who has missed "half of it at least"...
  56. Profile photo of cityncolour
    cityncolour Male 30-39
    379 posts
    November 5, 2012 at 4:35 pm
    wow. i cant believe i made it through 4 minutes of that garbage before i finally turned it off.
  57. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 6, 2012 at 11:30 am
    With out Capitalism would have never had slavery...
    @dm2754: Serious question: are you bi-polar? Sometimes you make terrific sense, other times...
    For the record: I`m Uni-Polar depressive.

    FYI: Slavery has been around since the dawn of humanity...

    and in communism, not everyone got sent to death camps
    @Modwain: just a "few million" of them, to set an example...
    Castro is the only one in that list i have second thoughts abuot...
    Kinda true, and I forgot North Korea entirely! BUT both have starvation IN THIS CENTURY! Castro has huge prisons, not "deathcamps". NK has both...

    ...it was the government intervention...
    True that @HumanAction! The greedy banks JUMPED at the chance to make more money, of course, but the Gov`t is to blame for the CAUSE of it.
    @Modwain: The Gov`t passed the Law which changed the system for the worse.
  58. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 6, 2012 at 11:43 am
    Being right so often helps.
    @HumanAction: BWA! HAhahaha! Nice one bro!
    @chalket: Ka-ZINGA! You`ve been owned...

    Continued excellence @HA: smart AND concise? = :-)

    The only thing I`d add is: The Clinton Admin first changed the rules because BLACKS were being denied loans due to "poor credit rate". Some argued that "institutionalized racism" caused otherwise credit-worthy Blacks to have lower credit than similar Whites.
    There IS INDEED some merit to this arguement!
    So after Clinton gave the green light for Sub-Prime BLACKS, they started buying more houses.

    Some then argued that it`s ILLEGAL to just base it on race (100% true) so the floodgates opened, rules were changed AGAIN and LOTS of sub-prime folks got loans, bought houses, inflated the market, bubble burst & etc.

    Plus there`s this NASTY rule which allows banks to sell mtgs to "3rd Party Lenders" = EVIL!
  59. Profile photo of Rogan
    Rogan Female 18-29
    46 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 7:23 pm
    Yes, it`s so obvious to me now. We only have the choice between capitalism and the dark ages! Weeee, there`s nothing elseeee

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