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Date: 11/17/12 05:05 PM

71 Responses to Carl Sagan On The Library Of Alexandria & Hypatia

  1. Profile photo of peakingo
    peakingo Male 30-39
    761 posts
    November 16, 2012 at 11:46 pm
    Link: Carl Sagan On The Library Of Alexandria & Hypatia - Such a needless loss.
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    blah blah blah
    Lord that man can talk a lot.
  3. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 5:55 pm
    He was one of my childhood heroes..and sadly he died after one of his bone marrow transplants just as I was being prepared for mine.

    I still love falling asleep to either one his books like the pale blue dot or some other astronomy course being read to me on audio. Mind you, it drives the g/friend nuts so he`s not for everyone I guess.
  4. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Yeah, Listypoos, he puts me to sleep as well.
  5. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm
    Unlike most,Sagan had something to say.
  6. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm
    lol Gerry.

    Is it just Sagan`s voice or what he`s saying that you find boring though? For example, does Neil Degrasse Tyson send you to sleep too?
  7. Profile photo of Darkalen
    Darkalen Male 40-49
    411 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm
    Where have I heard that voice mimicked...

    "You hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability. It is the sound of your death. Goodbye, Mr. Anderson."
  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    Listypoos - It`s his pompassity. Yeah, he`s smart, but he got to be such a blowhard. NTD started the same way, love him. Now he`s just as long winded as Segan. People in love with themselves irritate me.
  9. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 8:48 pm
    He`s basically saying that when the elites hoard knowledge and learning that society suffers and fails. Much the same thing is happening in our colleges and universities right now, they`ve raised tuition costs over $20,000 a year, kept inept professors on tenure and denied tenure to those that challenge their reign.

    If this situation doesn`t change the US will fall further down the ladder of educated nations and revolution will be the only cure left.
  10. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 11:04 pm
    @Darkalen:

    I was coming to say the same thing.
  11. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2345 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 11:07 pm
    we have a modern day version of the religious fanatics that destoryed the library...we know them as the right wong christians and to this day they still have the same desire to destory knowledge and science.

    although they love the ish outta science when they need it for transportation, internet, medical, etc. they just don`t realize it.
  12. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:07 am
    jamie: christians... still have the same desire to destory knowledge and science.

    Uhm, no we don`t. Christians are trying to fight the atheists that wish to muzzle them and tear all mention of religion out of American society. It`s the atheists, given the chance, that would destroy every bible and burn down every church in the name of their new god, science.
  13. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:20 am
    CrakrJak! I didn`t realize you were stupid! I`m so sorry for you.
  14. Profile photo of ccalhoun86
    ccalhoun86 Male 18-29
    76 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 1:32 am
    CrackrJak, how can you so eloquently state what may be the greatest flaw in our education system and then say something so blatantly moronic just a few hours later?
  15. Profile photo of peakingo
    peakingo Male 30-39
    761 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:59 am
    CrakrJak, you totally misunderstood his point. Alexandria was a free thought community. That`s the point, they never fought over ideas and beliefs. They fought over math, science and astronomy.

    They believed in the storage of all knowledge regardless if it deferred from theirs because they knew the importance of archiving all of it. The Christians, specifically the Bishop found them all in contempt of Gods Laws and he killed the strongest mind Hypatia, then destroyed the Library because of her/their "Pagan" beliefs with total indifference to the preservation of the worlds greatest writings.

    What Carl is addressing is the need to understand this error and not to repeat it.

    It has nothing to do with the elite being the only benefactors of higher learning and everything to do with preventing the suppression of free thought; including spiritual and scientific while the Bishop saw science as a Pagan practice that warranted death and destruction.
  16. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 4:40 am
    Ahh crakrjak. 100% wrong again. You seem to be on a roll lately.
  17. Profile photo of gladhatter
    gladhatter Male 50-59
    219 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:53 am
    Crakrjak is right 100%! What are you on?
  18. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 6:58 am
    It never ceases to amaze me the way CrakrJak can state the opposite of fact, as though it were true.

    Christians want to bury all the proof that shows how ridiculous the Bible and religion is. Atheists want to spread knowledge. All knowledge.

    I took a religions class in school to learn about religion. I`ve read the Bible and the Quran. I`ve learned about many religions and their origins. Christians shun any knowledge that contradicts or threatens their views. In fact, it`s the closed mindedness that keeps their brainwashing firmly in place.
  19. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:30 am
    I get what you`re saying Gerry - I do see it more with NDT and not so much with Sagan though.

    I find what NDT has to say fascinating, but yeah...he does seem a little up his own butt a little on his podcasts and some of his tweets.
  20. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:59 am
    patchouly: Christians want to bury all the proof that shows how ridiculous the Bible and religion is. .. Christians shun any knowledge that contradicts or threatens their views.

    Really believe that BS don`t you? You`ve been fully indoctrinated into the atheist rhetoric and are now spouting it forth to others.

    I never did see Christians try and stop man from landing on the moon, or IBM from developing the computer chip, or doctors from working on the cure for cancer. In fact most of the scientists working on such projects are/were Christians.

    So go take your BS lies somewhere else.
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:01 am
    Peakingo: Alexandria was a free thought community.

    No it was not `free` that`s why it failed and he just said as much in this video. Open your ears next time because you missed his point.
  22. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:48 am
    Hypatia was only famous for being murdered. She wasn`t one of the great minds of the museion.

    It grates on me that she`s pretty much the only one remembered.
  23. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:54 am
    Uhm, no we don`t. Christians are trying to fight the atheists that wish to muzzle them and tear all mention of religion out of American society. It`s the atheists, given the chance, that would destroy every bible and burn down every church in the name of their new god, science.

    Are you trolling or deluded? Those are the only two possible causes for someone making a statement that is so ludicrously and obviously untrue.

    You are like the raving anti-everyone-else Muslims ranting against the American Imperialist Crusade To Destroy Islam, but more so. They at least have some shreds of bits of scraps of reasons to think that way, if they ignore most of reality. You have nothing. You`re making your reality-denying babblings from nothing at all.
  24. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 10:01 am
    @CrakrJak: Oh really? You may be completely ignorant then that scientists that speak about moonlight being light reflected from the sun get booed (it even happened to Bill Nye) and barred from speaking.

    And you may ignore the complete "young earth creationist" movement too, which aims at the complete disbelief of everything in science that contradicts the bible, such as evolution and the big bang.

    You may ignore these things, but they`re there, and they`re part of the group of people that call themselves "christians", whether you care to include them or not
  25. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 10:11 am
    @Angilion: Hypatia was the ONLY woman in there, and she was there because Eratostenes, the previous head editor, was so impressed with her ability to think that he went against everyone`s wishes to keep the library male... for some reason. Eratosthenes then named her his successor in the position of head editor. Not bad huh?

    She was also the head of the school of Astronomy and Mathematics in there and less notably for me, leaded the school in Platonic philosophy.

    Of course she was never head editor because she was murdered. But if that`s all you remember about her, you need to read a little deeper.
  26. Profile photo of peakingo
    peakingo Male 30-39
    761 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 11:15 am
    @ CrakrJak, what about Christians stopping stem-cell research? That`s literal science that Christians are trying to stop.
  27. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    You all need to chill the frack out.
  28. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:22 pm
    jendrian: Bill Nye was booed because he decided to bring the bible into a science discussion, to discredit it. It wasn`t because he said the moon reflects light, because we all know that. It`s because he decided to try and use that in a lame attempt to discredit the bible.

    peakingo: Christians have no problem with stem cell research, they have a problem with harvesting stem cells from aborted fetuses. And btw, it turns out that, since that fetus stem cell ban, we`ve found out that adult stem cells are actually better.
  29. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 2:46 pm
    jendrian:

    There were women studying and teaching in various Greek and Graeco-Roman museions, including Alexandria, long before Hypatia was born. She was not particularly outstanding even if you ignore every man. There are no extant records of any of her own work, so we don`t know what if any original work she did.

    Also, the Eratosthenes who was a noted scientist and mathematician died centuries earlier.
  30. Profile photo of trickroom
    trickroom Male 18-29
    286 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:00 pm
    The internet is our new Alexandria. Protect it.
  31. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:23 pm
    Sad to think we`re being ushered into another 1000 year dark age by statists and socialists. And as Carl would say, "there`s no one to stop them".
  32. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 5:44 pm
    CrakrJak: Seeing as how you`re scientifically illiterate, are a creationist, and doesn`t even know what Evolution is, you should probably shut up.
  33. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:03 pm
    mesovortex: I graduated from college with a science degree. I know exactly what is evolution claimed to be and graduated on the Dean`s list. Perhaps it is you that should `probably shut up`.

    You believe science has a set of `laws` that limit God, I do not. I believe God is omnipotent, that means `All Powerful`. God simply isn`t bound by the rules that man creates for himself.
  34. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 8:37 pm
    CrakrJak: Every time you mouth off about evolution you prove you don`t know anything about it. Unless you have a degree in evolutionary biology (which is a thing that actually exists) then that has got nothing to do with your supposed `expertise` - which is none.

    I`ve followed you around here a while. You know nothing about evolution, and should probably listen more than you talk about the subject so you could actually educate yourself about it.

    Science doesn`t use the concept of god because it explains everything, and explains nothing. It is indistinguishable from fantasy, and is useless as far as a naturalistic explanation goes.

    It`s you who has things a little mixed up.
  35. Profile photo of VirtualParty
    VirtualParty Male 18-29
    787 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:09 pm
    I think it`s Crackjak`s hobby to come on here and prove to everyone just how effectively he`s been indoctrinated by ignorance and rhetoric, proving that the only real enemy that will emerge in the coming decades is thinking like his.
  36. Profile photo of Sistarose
    Sistarose Female 30-39
    373 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 9:36 pm
    I have never found that Carl Sagan was in love with himself, I always felt he loved science and wanted to share that with the world.
    On a lighter side I enjoyed the movie Agora, yes it took liberties, yes there were Historical inaccuracies like most movies, but it was just great that someone bothered to make a movie about Hypatia.
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 18, 2012 at 11:28 pm
    mesovortex: Please tell us what science degree you have and what research you`ve done on the topic.

    Otherwise quit being a hypocrite and STFU.

    If you do have a degree, then let`s debate what you think are flaws in my disbelief in evolution, please use specific examples of what I`ve said in the past and not generic anti-Christian rhetoric.

    I don`t care if science ignores God, that doesn`t bother me. What bothers me are people trying to argue laws of science to try and disprove God. It`s not the role of science to `disprove` God and those attempting to do so are fools.
  38. Profile photo of ccalhoun86
    ccalhoun86 Male 18-29
    76 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:46 am
    CrackrJak, I find it absolutely hilarious that you`re laying down "rules" to orchestrate a fair and intelligible debate, when I have never once seen you debate on much more than your opinions and beliefs based on what you`ve read from the bible and seen on Fox News. This science degree you earned must have been a very long time ago, perhaps before you found jesus?
  39. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:47 am
    ccalhoun: I have never once seen you debate on much more than your opinions and beliefs based on what you`ve read from the bible and seen on Fox News.

    Then you haven`t been around IAB for very long. I`ve had numerous scientific discussions without ever mentioning the bible, religion or FoxNews.

    As for your polemic about my education and Christianity, that was a really lame attempt at a troll. You can`t honestly believe that being a Christian and a scientist are mutually exclusive. If so, then I have news for you, you`re a moron.

    There are millions of scientists around the world of different religious beliefs, most of them are Christians.
  40. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14621 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 8:14 am
    F the Christians.
  41. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 9:00 am
    CrakrJak: Your discussion are wrong because of (a) they do not have correct or even accurate science and (b) you argue based on an ideology.

    There`s no point in debating you here or publicly to be honest because your position is an ideology that will never change no matter how many times you are shown to be wrong.

    Science marches on without you.
  42. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 9:12 am
    @Angilion: upon a quick google search... you`re right, sorry about the Hypatia comment.

    @CrakrJak: How is that any different? And what about the entire creationist movement? What about the Westboro Baptist Church. What about the doctors getting killed for performing abortions?

    And you say: "we all know moonlight is reflected from the sun", but that`s not what a sizeable and somewhat vocal number of christians believe.
  43. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 9:17 am
    It`s not the role of science to `disprove` God and those attempting to do so are fools.
    Actually, since the role of science is the attainment, cataloguing, and use of knowledge, usually by the proposal of ideas and the disproval of such ideas, then yes, god enters within the realm of science. And there`s nothing dumb about that. Brilliant people have worked on the problem, and the fact that there`s not really that much work being done on it lately means the matter is mostly settled.

    Moreover, the existence or influence of an intelligent `god` (defined as supernatural) in the world have been clearly phased out in the last 500 years.

    I have a degree in theoretical physics, by the way. Care to argue about the big bang?
  44. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:34 am
    Holy f*ck, Crakr. Seriously?
  45. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:37 am
    then let`s debate what you think are flaws in my disbelief in evolution

    Simple - it`s a reality-denying position that is solely ideologicial.

    You may as well disbelieve in light or gravity or earthquakes. Like evolution, those are things that happen. You can disbelieve in them for ideological reasons if you like, but you can`t expect anyone other than like-minded ideologues to take you seriously when you do so.

    Your silly prating about science trying to destroy your religion are projection - you are trying to destroy science by corrupting it into a tool for your religion and so you assume (or pretend to assume) that scientists are doing the same thing the other way around. You are wrong.

    To be continued in another post due to character limits.
  46. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2322 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:37 am
    I see CrakrJackoff is busy defending his silly little deity again.

    Science always wins. Your god, CrakrJackoff, will one day join Zeus, Thor, and all the rest in the dustbin of history, on the shelf marked `Mythology.`

    Oh, and you`re an idiot, regardless of any degrees you claim to have earned. News flash, moron -- Bob Jones doesn`t count.
  47. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:46 am
    Few if any scientists are trying to use science to prove the non-existence of your god (or any other gods). That is purely your fantasy for the purpose of falsely portraying yourself and your fellow believers as victims in order to gain political power by doing so.

    Science is, in essence, a method of finding reliable, rational, natural explanations of how the universe works. It clashes with religion only when religion demands people believe unreliable, irrational, supernatural explanations for how things work, explanations that stifle thought and prevent the technological progress we so desperately need.
  48. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 10:49 am


    If, for example, you demand that everyone is conditioned to believe that lightning is a magic weapon thrown by your angry god and that everyone must give your clerics money and power to placate your god, then you are clashing with science.

    If you say that you believe that your god created things in such a way that lightning can happen as a result of natural processes, then you are not clashing with science.

    Science explains *how* things happen. It doesn`t explain *why* they happen that way. If you want to say it`s because your god set the universe up that way, that`s up to you. It`s a seperate thing from science. The most that a scientist would say in opposition is that your explanation is unnecessarily complicated and unsupported by any evidence.

    And yes, *some* scientists are theists. But, unlike you, they understand what science is and they understand that they must keep science and religion seperate.
  49. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:32 am
    mesovortex: Your discussion are wrong because of (a) they do not have correct or even accurate science and (b) you argue based on an ideology.

    I see no sense arguing with someone that has no grasp of proper grammar, you`ve proved that your IQ is sub-moronic just by your lack of syntax.
  50. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:39 am
    jendrian: When science starts delving into the realm of philosophy and religion it has jumped the proverbial shark. Unprovable conjecture is not what science should be about. Leave religion to the preachers and philosophy to the philosophers and perhaps Christians won`t feel the need to delve into science in defense of their beliefs.
  51. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 11:58 am
    Angilion: Few if any scientists are trying to use science to prove the non-existence of your god.

    Really? Atheists are doing this on a daily basis in our schools and colleges right now. Hell it`s being done here on IAB on a semi-regular basis.

    Science explains *how* things happen. It doesn`t explain *why* they happen that way. If you want to say it`s because your god set the universe up that way, that`s up to you.

    Finally, A rational argument I can agree with. My arguments against evolution are merely science based, I don`t quote the bible when arguing against it, I keep them separate.

    Unfortunately those arguing against God do not do the same and thus we get into discussions like this. Insisting that Christians not mix science and religion but not imposing the same restrictions on the atheists makes for a lopsided and unfair debate.
  52. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    @CrakrJak: you understand what the term PhD means right? Philosophy Doctorate. It means you have attained a level where you can teach (doctrine <- latin) a love for knowledge (philos = love, sophia = knowledge).

    There is absolutely nothing wrong in scientists entering the realm of philosophy and theology, as every single scientist has ever done in his/her lifetime. In fact, without philosophy, science doesn`t progress, because we use it in the scientific method, in inference, and in all other areas of science.

    There is no such thing as a separation between philosophy and science. I can attest for that first hand.

    And in matters of religion well, is that not only abstract thoughts as well? Why should knowledge of religion be out of the grasp of science?
  53. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    As for your comment for Angilion... you mean to say that schools, the institution whose sole intention is to disseminate knowledge, tend to side with factual knowledge and shun unproven hearsay?

    You don`t say, how evil of them to only tell children things we know are factually true.

    My offer stands, I can educate you on why your disbelief in evolution is unfounded.
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:22 pm
    jendrian: In actuality what PhD. Means is that you made a `Doctorate` level study, completed coursework, and had your dissertation published. `Philosophy` needn`t be included to gain a PhD. The broader sense of the term `philosophy` means `Love of Wisdom`.

    ..every single scientist has ever done..

    Not every scientist engages in philosophy or theology like you just claimed, that`s both absurd and bloviated.

    Why should knowledge of religion be out of the grasp of science?

    Because atheists insist that religion not interfere with science, so it`s only fair that science not interfere with religion. You can`t have your cake and eat it too.
  55. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:36 pm
    jendrian: Schools do more than just `disseminate knowledge`, they teach kids how to learn, not just what to learn. If those kids are taught that religion is nothing more than a fantasy, then you`ve just prejudiced them against it for the rest of their lives. It`s no different than teaching any other kind of prejudice, and it`s wrong.

    Did you crush your kids belief in Santa Claus, in the name of `truth`, too?
  56. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm
    @CrakrJak: The Ph in PhD stands for Philosophy. And every person who engages in inferences and plays with logic is doing philosophy. So yeah, all scientists engage in philosophy.

    Schools also teach children them to prejudice against nazis and greek mythology.

    It seems to me that the ones who can`t have the cake and eat it too are religious people: if you want to be free to practice your religion, you can`t force it on other people. If you want to use a cellphone and a computer, you have to accept that science is correct, whether it goes against your instruction book or not.

    If you want a society that is based on truth, you can`t hang on to unfounded beliefs that have been disproven several times.

    Science on the other hand, as a self-adjusting mechanism, can, and often does, makes the cake, cuts it, and eats it. Because it knows exactly how.
  57. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 3:43 pm
    and yes, I`ve broken fantasies down to children, and it never ceases to amaze me how much happier they are to know how stuff actually works. But maybe it`s just in how I explain it.
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:04 pm
    jendrian: The Ph in PhD may indeed have originated to mean philosophy, but then originally only the liberal arts had PhDs. But that doesn`t signify that all scientists engage in philosophy.

    Now if you mean that scientists engage in logic and problem solving, those are subsections of the general field of philosophy that also includes aesthetics, epistemology, metaphysics, morality and politics.

    I mean just because theology and politics are both part of `philosophy` in general do you believe those two should be engaged with one another?
  59. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm
    I mean just because theology and politics are both part of `philosophy` in general do you believe those two should be engaged with one another?
    Yes. It`s the reason there is a separation between church and state, because people have thought about the two in the same frame.

    Are we living in the same planet?

    Do you honestly think scientists never think of metaphysics and aesthetics? Who, of all other humans in the world, is better suited for it than those who devote their lives to the pursuit of knowledge?
  60. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:12 pm
    I mean, does it really escape to you that the greatest philosophers mankind has ever produced have been scientists?
  61. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:14 pm
    jendrian: So you`ve just subtracted the lesson and joy of giving, without without wanting recognition for it, and taught them what? That mom and dad are buying their love and they grow up feeling entitled and become brats?
  62. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:20 pm
    jendrian: Most of the greatest philosophers ever, were not scientists and I can give you many examples.
  63. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    No, I`ve told them their parents love them so much they want to reward their good behaviour. And that when they love someone, they give without expecting retribution.

    Is it really necessary to have fairy for that?
  64. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    Shoot away your examples, I will show you how they were scientists
  65. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:31 pm
    jendrian: Rewarding someone for them doing what you want is called Bribery. Only giving to those you love is not charity.

    So you just taught them that anyone can be bribed and only give to those people you love, to not be charitable to strangers. Way to go, you`re creating selfish brats that believe they can buy love and people.
  66. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:34 pm
    haha sure, I`m sure none of your behaviour is influenced by the reward of heaven. Oh wait
  67. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm
    So why is it that they can`t love all of mankind a little? Wouldn`t that negate your argument?
  68. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:38 pm
    furthermore, what extra lesson is there in the jolly ol` fellow that isn`t in what I described?

    Doesn`t that make them even more selfish? To think that every christmas they should be entitled to free stuff?
  69. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:44 pm
    "I see no sense arguing with someone that has no grasp of proper grammar, you`ve proved that your IQ is sub-moronic just by your lack of syntax."

    You just used a comma splice. Your position against evolution and most science is ideological only. You aren`t willing to change your mind, thus it`s pointless to argue it with you.

    If you`re going to play grammar nazi, point the finger at yourself, first.
  70. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 4:45 pm
    "jendrian: Most of the greatest philosophers ever, were not scientists and I can give you many examples. "

    CrakrJak - and most of the philosophers have been dead wrong. If you studied philosophy, you would know this.
  71. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    November 19, 2012 at 5:00 pm
    mesovertex has a point, pure philosophy has provided more wrongs than rights. Gottlob Frege even studied how to provide more accuracy to philosophy through mathematical logical inferences. That`s even a field of its own nowadays (aka analytic philosophy)

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