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Date: 11/13/12 12:15 PM

92 Responses to 30 States Are Now Trying To Secede from USA [Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of schecter5
    schecter5 Male 18-29
    406 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    Link: 30 States Are Now Trying To Secede from USA - People said that the election would split the country. Who knew they were right?
  2. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    Haha, bad losers and nutters I bet!
  3. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:27 pm
    They don`t have to be a part of America if they so choose, the rest of us then choose to pack `em up and ship them out of our country- kinda offsets all the criminals who trespassed our borders and set up shop here.
  4. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:27 pm
    Let `em go. I`m not sure who`s going to pay for everything while they`re busy giving all their money to the rich.
  5. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    lol

    PEOPLE in 30 states have started petitions to secede, not 30 STATES. lmfao.

    Christ you people who dissent really take yourselves seriously don`t you? If all it took was some racist aholes to sign a piece of paper for a secession to work...dontcha think the South would have tried that say....almost 200 years ago?

    You are being ruled by PotUS who is black. Effing deal with it you small narrow minded effs.
  6. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    We have created monsters...

    If you don`t win retaliate!
  7. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3908 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:35 pm
    What`s funny about this is that many of the states that supposedly "applied for secession" are blue states. (California, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, Delaware, Oregon, Michigan) This is just some of the tin-foil hat wearing right-wing f*cktards who got some of their equally crazy friends to sign a petition and sent it to Washington.
  8. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    This is what you get when you overly use wartime terminolgy and phrases in elections.

    Now you have a bunch of dbags who think since they lost they need to take it to another level. And would more than likely war with other Americans just to have another White man as president rather than a black one.

  9. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    lol. Ok, they can secede, but they must develop their own currency, passports, licenses, and military. Not to mention the loss of any double taxation avoidance treaties with other countries, as well as any other treaties. Yeah, keep thinking secession is a good idea. *rolls eyes*
  10. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    To be clear: The title to this post (and related posts around the web) are not correct. It is not the case that 30 states are now trying to secede; it IS the case that citizen-led petitions relating to the secession of dozens of states have been posted to the White House`s petition site.

    The likelihood of Obama (or any President) granting a right of secession is... I`ll go out on a limb here... exactly zero.

    On a side note, I did a brief analysis of the Texas secession petition. I took the last 500 signatures (as per the website at the time -- signatures #s 78,308 to 78,807). Of these...

    - 296 are explicitly from Texas
    - 79 have no recorded city and state

    ... leaving 125 from outside the state. That`s 25%. I don`t know why these people are petitioning for Texas to leave the state, but I wonder if their signatures are valid for a petition of this nature. Anyone know?
  11. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:49 pm
    Anyone who thinks this is a call for ACTUAL secession is a bit vapid.

    More like trying to wake Washington up. Voter fraud. Disagreement over policy. Etc. Our representatives won`t represent us, so we have to do it ourselves.
  12. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    I live in Austin, TX and no one here is talking at all about seceding. This is just the work of a few far right wing nut jobs that are butt hurt about the election. Texas will not secede over something as silly as 4 more years of a democratic president. This petition has 60,000 signatures. Out of a population of about 25,675,000 people in Texas. Thats about 0.2% of the states population that care about this. Its not a real problem and will not be taken seriously. Lets stop giving attention to these people.
  13. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    @AJ: "Anyone who thinks this is a call for ACTUAL secession is a bit vapid."

    I have no idea what that means. I`m sure the people signing these petitions recognize the futility of it, but I can only assume - in the absence of other information - that every one of these people agrees with the wording of the petition. Otherwise, why would they sign?

    Regardless, it may not be a feasible petition, but it`s certainly an `actual` one. At some point (I`ve heard >25k sig`s), the White House/POTUS will actually have to respond - officially - to these petitions.
  14. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:01 pm
    Dallasite here and yeah what CoyoteKing said.
  15. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    Agreed with Cajun and Coyote are saying.

    Houstonian here. Nary a whisper of secession around me.

    Admittedly, Texas cities tend to go Democrat (or, at least, more so than rural areas in the state). Even in `Big Oil` Harris County (Houston), Obama garnered slightly more votes than Romney.
  16. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    Not going to happen.
  17. Profile photo of xelous
    xelous Male 18-29
    2513 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    Haha, this isn`t happening. Signatures may be taken, the white house may have to respond, still doesn`t mean they will be given the option. X,D

    Silly people
  18. Profile photo of xelous
    xelous Male 18-29
    2513 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:14 pm
    Even in `Big Oil` Harris County (Houston), Obama garnered slightly more votes than Romneysimbha
    That`s interesting as I used to live in Harris County and most of the people I met there were hardcore republicans, maybe they just didn`t vote
  19. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3336 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    well you did lose the Philippines in 1954
  20. Profile photo of VirtualParty
    VirtualParty Male 18-29
    787 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    Welp it looks like the republicans in those respective states are ignoring half of their citizenry once again in favor of the loud few.
  21. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    To anyone that signed one of these petitions. My-way-or-the-highway people like you are the main cause of the problems we are in. The government can only truly shine when both sides work together to come up with the best solutions. Conservatives have great ideas and liberals have great ideas, but it is their coming together that weeds out that bad ones. My suggestion to anyone who is so stubbornly partisan as this is to get the f*ck out of the way. You are a detriment to this great nation.
  22. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3336 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    and you lost Cuba 1902
  23. Profile photo of RuralNinja
    RuralNinja Male 18-29
    519 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    There are always petitions for this sort of thing going around. At any given time, you could find numerous petitions on the website for any number of states to secede. Its just that no one cared until Texas got enough signatures that someone had to waste their time to respond to it. Only after did it suddenly become an issue.
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36662 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Every state with a republican governor petitioned the White House. It means nothing, just republitard grand standing.

    As for Texas, there has always been an "Independant Texas" movement since they were forced to end slavery in 1865.
  25. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    There are always petitions for this sort of thing going around. At any given time, you could find numerous petitions on the website for any number of states to secede. Its just that no one cared until Texas got enough signatures that someone had to waste their time to respond to it. Only after did it suddenly become an issue.

    I`m not sure this is exactly true. Yes, petitions are always being circulated, but I`d heard of these petitions - in particular - before the TX one had even close to enough votes. I suspect it`s the proximity of the election - and the big talk that came before.
  26. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    simbha
    That`s interesting as I used to live in Harris County and most of the people I met there were hardcore republicans, maybe they just didn`t vote

    It also happened in 2008, when Obama won 50.5% (vs 48.8% for McCain) of the County`s votes. But, you`re right that it`s changed. A Democratic candidate for President hadn`t won Harris County since 1964 - and that was likely the result of LBJ being from Texas.

    Edit: Having said that, I`ve been here for 18 years, and I haven`t found the city`s populace to be overtly Republican in that time. Sure, there are some diehards, but I think the growing cosmopolitan nature of the city has changed its consensus political leanings considerably. This was one of the first major cities to elect an openly gay mayor, after all.
  27. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:15 pm
    I`m curious to know what federal funding goes to Texas and at what volume.

    Xelous
    It came down to Romney not convincing people he had a better idea rather, he did a lot of things to convince people he is out of touch:
    -"Eff FEMA" (just as a storm is wasting islands then, NJ/NY...)
    -"Binder"
    -"Big Bird"
    -Picks an ultra-conservative running mate
    -"47%"
    -Spray tan?
    -"Who let the dogs out"
    -Insincere, mechanical laughter
    Hardly a week went by without a foot firmly stuffed in his mouth. Did he even win his home state?
  28. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36662 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    I thought we settled this with the Civil War. The USA is like the mafia, once you are in, you can`t leave.
  29. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:33 pm
    CodeJockey-Wasn`t Romney supporter but he did get some things right
    -"Eff FEMA"-We already have the National Guard to provide order in times of chaos. We DON`T need another agency.
    -"Big Bird"-The government shouldn`t be subsidizing television.
    -"47%"-Definitely a foot-in-mouth moment, nonetheless this number should be MUCH smaller.
    -"Who let the dogs out"-I`m pretty sure the dog was in a carrier.
  30. Profile photo of indisguise
    indisguise Female 40-49
    267 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    "I`m pretty sure the dog was in a carrier."
    Yeah - strapped to the roof of his car. :|
  31. Profile photo of Aadya
    Aadya Female 18-29
    55 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:49 pm
    So here are a few things to point out that the artical doesn`t:
    *These are petiions submitted by regular citzens, not the state goverment. (Why would they tell the federal goverment they no longer want money?)
    * Many of the petions are actually having "validation issues" (Not texas I`m sure) because of being online people from other states are signing for other states - fine print of this old law is it has ot be from indviduals living in the state. Given its like over 100 years old and all.
    * NY doesn`t really want to secceed - someone from UT I beleive submitted a petion to have NY succeed (for giggles I guess?)
  32. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    The dog got hypothermia and poo all over the carrier--then he hosed it off and kept going. He`s a psychopath. I don`t see how people couldn`t tell he`s a drating lunatic who just wants to WIN.

    Never heard him saying, "My father ran for president once and lost...but he did not feel that his failures were something to rue and lament over."

    Then he was asked if he shared that sentiment--he said "No."

    Hahahaha. He just wants to win. He doesn`t care about the process, or the journey. It`s about acquiring things.
  33. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    Cajun, that is not the extent of what FEMA does and I don`t think a military org would be looking forward to studying sewage systems to determine storm readiness and making adjustments.
    If you said the ACE, maybe but, they act on direction of FEMA on the US mainland.

    What kind of a person ties an occupied carrier to the roof of a car?
    That dude is just out of touch.
  34. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    I was really disappointed when Bush won his second term but it wasn`t the end of the world. What is wrong with these people? Chill the f*ck out. America is going to be fine. We`re going to continue to work our way out of the recession. Plus congress is being forced to come together to produce a balanced budget. With that we can start to reduce the debt.
  35. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 3:20 pm
    "The dog got hypothermia and poo all over the carrier--then he hosed it off and kept going."

    That never happened. It was false.
  36. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    "I was really disappointed when Bush won his second term but it wasn`t the end of the world. What is wrong with these people?"

    It has nothing to do with Obama being re-elected.
  37. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 3:35 pm
    "It has nothing to do with Obama being re-elected."

    I`m not even going to waste my energy on this stupid comment. It did make me laugh though.
  38. Profile photo of danagamer
    danagamer Male 30-39
    701 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 3:45 pm
    I think that`s a GREAT idea. If the south needs to "Rise again", by all means let them go. They can drill, ban abortion, tote guns, what ever they like! Everyone wins!
  39. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm
    studying sewage systems to determine storm readiness

    ...and that requires engineers from the Federal govt?
  40. Profile photo of schecter5
    schecter5 Male 18-29
    406 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 4:41 pm
    HELL YEAH, THE FIRST POST I HAVE EVER SUBMITTED THAT ACTUALLY GOT POSTED!

    I feel warm and fuzzy inside.
  41. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm
    "To anyone that signed one of these petitions. My-way-or-the-highway people like you are the main cause of the problems we are in. The government can only truly shine when both sides work together to come up with the best solutions. Conservatives have great ideas and liberals have great ideas, but it is their coming together that weeds out that bad ones. My suggestion to anyone who is so stubbornly partisan as this is to get the f*ck out of the way. You are a detriment to this great nation."

    So my way or the highway then?
  42. Profile photo of razbitom
    razbitom Male 40-49
    913 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm
    it has long been time for the u.s. to be dissolved into a loose confederation of independant nation-states much like the CIS was formed from the former USSR.

    and it should be MUCH more answerable to the UN.
  43. Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 5:13 pm
    Surprisingly, it`s not just the south (CA, NY, NJ...)

    Even more surprising, you only need 25,000 signatures to get a response from the white house. That`s less than 1% of the population
  44. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 5:18 pm
    I predicted that the US would dissolve into civil war within 10 years. That was 5 years ago.

    Fix your s h i t and don`t make me right. It`s just politics and none of it freaking matters anyway. Giant douches vs. turd sandwiches and all that.
  45. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 5:24 pm
    "...and that requires engineers from the Federal govt?"
    Engineers, accountants, administrators, auditors, clerks, project managers...
    It`s not 5 dudes in an office: The closest thing to it I can think of is the ACE + GAO + construction project managers.
    They have projects that go on for years and there`s no single agency overlap...

    Unlike other agencies that grope you at the airport or listen in on college professors...
  46. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14621 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 5:34 pm
    Let`s have an annual referendum.
  47. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    and you lost Cuba 1902
    ... and your people lost what? Oh yea, North America (and South!).

    Engineers, accountants, administrators, auditors, clerks, project managers...
    ... because those people don`t exist within the independent states?

    the u.s. to be dissolved into a loose confederation of independant nation-states
    It`s like you`re quoting from the US Constitution. Seriously, that was the original design and implementation of the United States.

    and it should be MUCH more answerable to the UN
    Eff the UN. The US should NEVER answer to the UN, period. The actions of the US should be in the interest of the US only. This is the role of any government.
  48. Profile photo of YANKmyDOODLE
    YANKmyDOODLE Male 30-39
    771 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 7:04 pm
    traitors
  49. Profile photo of cyborg
    cyborg Male 13-17
    2790 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    quit your bitchin` America
  50. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 7:17 pm
    "... because those people don`t exist within the independent states? "
    I`m sure they do as I am among them in Michigan but, it`s a matter of agency overlap, not existence of available contractors.

    If you can say each of the 50 states has a funded agency in place equivalent to FEMA then, by all means, eff FEMA otherwise, they should probably continue to manage response/rescue/cleanup and recurrence prevention like they have been.

  51. Profile photo of Ob1969
    Ob1969 Male 40-49
    27 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 7:29 pm
    They`ve seceded in proving their idiocy.

    Yeah!!!
  52. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 7:33 pm
    We need to work to bring people together not divide the nation further.
  53. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm
    Wouldn`t it be easier to kick about 20 of them out?
  54. Profile photo of Fehz
    Fehz Male 30-39
    580 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm
    Seems people forget this nation was built on compromise.. I don`t remember who said it, but a nice quote between two bickering sides:
    Side 1: You happy?
    Side 2: No. You happy?
    Side 1: No.
    Both sides: Good.
  55. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm
    "We need to work to bring people together"

    We have the wrong system for that. They don`t give a poo anymore.
  56. Profile photo of Roland
    Roland Male 30-39
    298 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 10:55 pm
    Oh God, I wish this would happen. It is about time to jettison the garbage off the bottom half of the nation.
  57. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm
    Oh God, I wish this would happen. It is about time to jettison the garbage off the bottom half of the nation.
    Sooner or later, though, you`re going to get cold and hungry. Then what? We can live a hell of a lot longer without movies, life insurance, and multi-national banks than you can without food and energy.
  58. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 11:13 pm
    @Roland:

    People from Cali, Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, NY, NJ, Indiana, Montana, Colorado, Wisconsin, etc have asked to be part. Bottom half? More like 3/4ths.
  59. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    November 13, 2012 at 11:45 pm
    I have a better solution. Why don`t we just gather up all these traitors and ship them to Puerto Rico. When they realize how good they had it they can come back.
  60. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 3:24 am
    @OldOllie

    "We can live a hell of a lot longer without movies, life insurance, and multi-national banks than you can without food and energy."

    There are plenty of places they could buy food and energy.

    If you want the latest Batman film, there`s only one place you can buy it from.
  61. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 6:26 am
    If you can say each of the 50 states has a funded agency in place equivalent to FEMA then
    The problem is that the states have not needed to do this currently as a direct result of FEMA; I`m sure they each have some minor disaster response capacities but certainly not to the scale of FEMA.

    The point is, FEMA does not need to exist; the states are capable of creating and managing entities for this purpose.

    Once again, this is how a republic works. If the disaster was too large for one state (like Katrina was), then the other states` agencies will come to their aid. Before someone starts saying "that`s not a certainty", just look at the response around the nation for Katrina, or 9-11.
  62. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 7:28 am
    Hey guys, not everyone from these states want to secede. I live in Georgia and I have no interest in taking part in this stupid crap. These petitions were created and signed by a bunch of stupid racist rednecks who are pissy because Obama got reelected as president. It has nothing to do with politics, its simply people acting like children because of their narrow minded bigotry.
  63. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 7:34 am
    "...minor disaster response capacities..."
    "...not to the scale of FEMA..."
    Yes, I`m sure that every chemical plant is covered with local municipal plans for evacuation due to fire.

    What you guys are not realizing is that you`ve been alive during events that would have completely wiped out previous civilizations.
    "We need to move everyone in the city, 1M+ people, ten miles that way in less than two days."
    That had never happened before. If it has, please show me where.
    Without a single point of authority to manage Katrina, it would been a lesson in how to cremate 1M bodies not how get water to a stadium.
  64. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 7:49 am
    Yes, I`m sure that every chemical plant is covered with local municipal plans for evacuation due to fire.
    I didn`t say local; I said state. Surely you are not daft enough to suggest that a state is incapable of creating a body to prepare for disasters.

    What you guys are not realizing is that you`ve been alive during events that would have completely wiped out previous civilizations.
    ... like what? What disaster has occurred during my life that had the potential to destroy the entire US civilization?

    If it has, please show me where.
    The Holocaust.

    Without a single point of authority to manage Katrina, it would been a lesson in how to cremate 1M bodies not how get water to a stadium.
    Agreed; which is why the STATE should have had that single point of authority.
  65. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 8:11 am
    I didn`t say large enough to destroy the US.

    There simply was not enough equipment in state to deal with the event.

    The Holocaust did not move 1M people with less than a 3 day notice. It grew to the point where it could.

    A state managed EMA is perfectly possible but, would not have the authority FEMA already has.
  66. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 8:28 am
    I didn`t say large enough to destroy the US.
    That`s fair; I had inferred it from your statements. I still have a hard time imagining a disaster in the last 24 years that would have wiped out a "civilization". It would have been a very small civilization.

    There simply was not enough equipment in state to deal with the event.
    I mentioned earlier that this is where neighboring states (and extended states if necessary) come in.

    The Holocaust did not move 1M people with less than a 3 day notice. It grew to the point where it could.
    As did the FEMA response; it was a planned action. My point is that any authoritative body can create and direct mass migrations when injury or death is the alternative. FEMA is not the only entity capable of such.

    would not have the authority FEMA already has.
    Which is a good thing...
  67. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 9:12 am
    "... I still have a hard time imagining a disaster in the last 24 years that would have..."
    Around the world, you`ve witnessed a few. Because our modern civilization is as strong as it is, you didn`t even notice things like:
    -Japan`s main island moving 6 feet to the right...
    -The biggest underwater earthquake followed by the biggest tidal wave...
    -The largest forest fire ever fought on US soil
    -Katrina
    -Sandy

    These are all things that in the past were the stuff of >>theological formation.<<
    For you, it was the background noise the news made as you did your homework...
  68. Profile photo of papajon0s1
    papajon0s1 Male 40-49
    578 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 9:34 am
    Love it. The lefties are going nuts over this. Careful what you wish for lefties because once all the people that produce stuff and do things leave, who are you going to tax for your entitlement utopia?
  69. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 11:11 am
    @CodeJockey: Perhaps the miscommunication is in the phrase "civilization ending." To me, this implies that, after the event in question, the civilization no longer exists; as in, it is completely gone.

    With that definition, not a single item on that list was "civilization ending". Smallpox and the Native Americans (or NDNs as @dm would insist I say) was such an event. Some estimates suggest upwards of 90% mortality as a result of that event, and it completely destroyed the civilization.

    Hell, even Y. pestis during the middle ages was not a "civilization ending" event.
  70. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 12:23 pm
    OK then. Maybe it`s phrased too strongly but, let`s try this:
    The world is flat and as far as you know, all the world is the valley you`ve lived in your entire life. There, no one you`ve ever met has ever been outside the valley.
    What would it look like if, one day, torrential rain fell for a month straight? If this valley is all the world you`ve known, you might think the world ended...

    How about if you lived on a volcanic island. You see sailors and traders occasionally. They tell you "This island has the biggest, best fruit in all the world." One day, the ground starts to shake, the volcano explodes then, the entire island sinks into the ocean. Did your world end? How long until people stop telling the tale?

    Think back to the tidal wave. When it happened, people in the US knew in less than 2 minutes.
  71. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 12:39 pm
    You come from a world where the planet is being mapped from space.

    You`re thinking "Someone will handle it."
    I`m thinking "If you don`t specifically assign someone to handle it, it will be handled poorly at best and the fewer managers, the better, to a point."

    You are thinking "I think their power is too far reaching." I don`t disagree.
    I`m thinking "I wonder if they have a plan for an asteroid strike...."
  72. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    @CodeJockey: You aren`t listening to what I am saying. I am not suggesting that some mystical presence will simply manage a disaster for us. In fact, I have adamently and consistently stated that each STATE should assume that role rather than the federal government. Even a group of states creating an agency would be fine.

    I am fine with the federal government planning for an asteroid strike, because such an event would have a direct effect on all of the consistuents within their jurisdiction. Sandy does not, and therefore, should be handled by agencies more representative of the people suffering from its effects.

    You`re thinking: The federal government alone can adequately provide relief in the event of catastrophy.
    I`m thinking: The federal government is less wise about the effects of hurricanes than North Carolina, the effects of tornados than Oklahoma, or blizzards than Buffalo.
  73. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    By keeping management as close to the event as possible, while still adequately covering all of your constituents, you guarantee the strongest and most proper response possible for that locale.

    In times of extraordinary need, neighboring state agencies will assist. Allowing the federal government to interfere in every disaster is rather like bring a sledge hammer to every project.

    In the event you are demolishing a wall, then it is excellent. But what if you only need to remove a screw? And what if you need a rubber mallet instead?
  74. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    No, no. We`re close to saying the same thing.

    Where we disagree is you seem to feel 50 different committees would out perform 1 manager with consultants for each disaster.

    I think the FEMA, from whom I`ve already personally benefited, is better equipped to manage flood plain projects than my state government who wants to appoint an EMA for financial issues when we just elected a governor to do that or my city who`s civil engineering needed FEMA to rework.

    They are doing their job.
    Just need to rework some of that scary language in their job description.
  75. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Where we disagree is you seem to feel 50 different committees would out perform 1 manager with consultants for each disaster.
    This is apparently where I have not made myself clear enough.

    My ultimate reasoning is not that 50 managers > 1; it is that states rights need to be protected. Even if the states came together and formed one massive organization (though I think regionals would be best), it is better than the federal government doing it. In this way, if the organization gets out of control, the states can individually choose to abandon it. Essentially, since it is voluntary, we create a check and balance system. Any abuse of power leads to reduced membership (and funding) which results in reduced power.

    When the federal government creates a program (or law, ahem individual mandate), there is no ability to opt-out. As such, the program is free(er) to overreach.
  76. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 1:45 pm
    city who`s civil engineering needed FEMA to rework

    Why not ABET certified engineers? Why not AAEE, NSPE, or ASCE? There are even widely recognized accountant boards. It`s not like everyone`s going to be oblivious to a natural disaster these days.

    flood plain projects than my state government who wants to appoint an EMA

    Since their inception FEMA`s approach to disaster relief has been consistently clumsy and obtrusive. Sure SOME have benefited, but FEMA`s reputation is far from spotless.
  77. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 1:50 pm
    "Wait, and it certainly couldn’t have to do with the re-election of that…black guy, could it?"

    Hummm, they just said it`s about the economy and tyrrany... PLAY THE RACE CARD!!! Of course!

    "...but who has bayonets nowadays?"

    Um, The US Army? Every army in the whole world has them?

    Race baiting, cheap shots, ignore the facts? YUP! Written by a liberal for sure!

    4 pages of comments to wade through? UGH!
  78. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    You "liberal" Americans are so funny!

    Other nations have split up before! Remember Czechoslovakia? NOW it`s Czech Republic AND Slovakia! Peaceful, mutually agreed upon split-up. Not the end of the world.

    The USSR split up!

    Canada has a dumb-ass province that has TWICE held a VOTE on splitting!

    I say: WE should vote if Quebec is ALLOWED to stay... goodbye Frogs! Take your f-ing "Second National Anthem" with you!

    SECESSION is not a bad thing! CIVIL WAR, however, is!
  79. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32796 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 2:10 pm
    "It has nothing to do with Obama being re-elected."
    @markust? @aj is correct: these sorts of petitions have been around since WW1! You playing the "race card" is pathetic...

    @CodeJockey and @indisguise: *sigh* the dog-thing? Really?
    #1 Was it illegal then? NO! Is it illegal now? NO!
    #2 Was the dog harmed, on in any form of danger or duress? NO!
    Truth > propoganda
    It`s really sad that so many people actually think THIS DOG is a more important issue than 16 TRILLION IN DEBT! ffs...

    HELL YEAH, THE FIRST POST I HAVE EVER SUBMITTED THAT ACTUALLY GOT POSTED!
    Congradulations @schecter5! Welcome to the club!
  80. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 2:49 pm
    Human
    Regional is better but, optioning makes funding obfuscated at best. SOMEONE has to show up even if people haven`t paid their forest fire tax. No one state can absorb the cost of one of those.

    Cajun, I`m sure Detroit used accredited engineers to design the sewage system but it still was not large enough my neighborhood ended up with flooded basements despite being well above sea level. Lowest bidder?
    After the civil improvements it took 3 or 4 times more rain without a problem.
    80`s: Still tougher than this.
  81. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 2:56 pm
    Cats, WTF are you on about?
    What I was talking about was his photo-op with a bunch of kids where he blurted: "Who let the dogs out?" Trying to crack a joke, people gave him `the look.` The look was just short of the stink-eye...
  82. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm
    @CodeJockey: Unforunately, I do not believe there is a way to prove either of our stances.

    I do not particularly think that optioning would be an issue. To me, the (proposed) solution is self-regulating. For instance, let us say that there is a midwest organization.

    What is the chance that it becomes corrupt enough to warrant leaving in the first place? I think it is unlikely considering what is at stake for either side (funding vs risk).

    Let`s say North Dakota leaves, neglects setting up a proper EMA system, and then experiences a devastating wildfire. People will flee the state permanently, and the governing officials who were so utterly stupid will fail to win reelections.

    It is through these means of extended term self-regulation that the system would (over time) stabilize and succeed.

    Then again, how can either of us know for sure without trying it?
  83. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 4:39 pm
    "People will flee the state permanently"
    See, there. If a person is disgusted enough to leave, the general public has been punished, not the officials.

    It takes resources to leave. A person could be like myself with no family, spouse or children.
    I`ve always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!

    Your house is gone. Your BANK is gone.
    Your f*cking LAWYER is gone! Where do you go?!
    XD
  84. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 5:10 pm
    the general public has been punished, not the officials

    What the officials DON`T find themselves short of someone to govern?

    A person could be like myself with no family, spouse or children.
    I`ve always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!

    The way I see a scenario where even someone like you could become John Doe, has chances of a lightning strike on a given day divided by a billion, and that would be overstating the odds. Bruntly it`s a snowball`s chance in Hell.
  85. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    "...someone like you could become John Doe, has chances of a lightning strike on a given day divided by a billion..."
    And yet, I`ve been in three fires, three tornadoes (two on the same day,) two 4.0 earthquakes (in different states...)

    Come to think of it, I`ve been next to a lightning strike...
  86. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    If a person is disgusted enough to leave, the general public has been punished, not the officials.
    I disagree entirely. I, as a Wisconsite, have no business defending Iowans from their representatives; that is their business. A public that is victimized by the government they chose have only themselves to blame.

    For instance, I was raised in New York and went to college there. The politics and fiscal nature of New York are horrendous in my opinion. Since the overwhelming majority of occupants there agree with the government, I cannot hope to change the representation. Hence, it is my responsibility to leave and migrate to a state that shares my beliefs.

    So, I moved to Wisconsin.

    I love this notion that changing your representative is the only option. The concept of a republic encourages you to seek states with ideals similar to your own.
  87. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 5:41 pm
    I`ve always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!
    In this very unlikely situation, in which you are not covered by insurance, have ill-prepared yourself with savings, have found yourself victim of a neglectful government, so on and so forth, you should turn to private organizations.

    Just to name a rather popular one, the Red Cross will be there.
  88. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 11:11 pm
    @Cajun247 Don`t you mean serve? They are supposed to serve us and defend the constitution.
    Govern indeed!
  89. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    November 14, 2012 at 11:34 pm
    Also, I was hit by shrapnel from a lightning strike about a foot from my head. It makes an excellent story.
  90. Profile photo of NNoamfer
    NNoamfer Male 18-29
    1216 posts
    November 15, 2012 at 6:05 am
    It`s funny, since Obama`s policies aren`t anything new, innovative or that much controversial. There have been plenty of leaders just like him before, and even more liberal than him, yet now he is the worst one yet... The only thing that makes him completely different than other democrat presidents is his color... I wonder why republicans are pissed...
  91. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    November 15, 2012 at 10:08 am
    Its actually 2 states. The rest are sheep, tagging along for the "popular" thing.
  92. Profile photo of OutWest
    OutWest Male 50-59
    546 posts
    November 17, 2012 at 9:32 am
    So in 2012, if they want to secede and create their own new country, it isn`t OK?

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