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Date: 10/12/12 04:30 PM

86 Responses to Straight Christian Lives A Year As A Gay Man

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18502 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    Link: Straight Christian Lives A Year As A Gay Man - Uh huh, for research, I`m sure.
  2. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm
    I saw this video yesterday. I`m curious about this. I may buy the book when it comes out. The reason I am hesitant is my gaydar was going crazy.
  3. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 4:39 pm
    The lesson was right here in John 8:1-12
  4. Profile photo of jabberwock83
    jabberwock83 Male 18-29
    120 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 4:44 pm
    I`ll be the first to say it...
    No homo?
  5. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    "It`s about the moment that changed it all, the moment where the tables were turned... the moment I sucked a dick."
  6. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 4:53 pm
    TheGuySmiley

    I disagree. The answer is right here:

    tinyurl.com/258pv6b

    I mean, same book right?
  7. Profile photo of skytz1337
    skytz1337 Male 18-29
    687 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:03 pm
    Let me get this right...so because his friend was gay...he decided to try to be gay (tho he isn`t ) so that he`ll see how religious people treats him (tho he treats gays the same way ). WTH?
  8. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    HolyGod: It`s Leviticus, from the old testament, yes. But just so you know, Jesus came and gave us a new testament: Love one another, and judge not lest ye be judged. In essence, it`s kind of like trying to use a `how-to use windows 3.1` book, when windows 7 is out and installed on your computer. Word to the wise.
  9. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31797 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:11 pm
    The words "take one for the team" have a whole new meaning!

    Not watching it, too stupid.
  10. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4718 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    TheGuySmiley...Thou shalt not troll.
  11. Profile photo of Langer
    Langer Male 18-29
    394 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:27 pm
    first thing that came to mind xD (shame about the crappy quality though)
  12. Profile photo of DFWBrysco
    DFWBrysco Male 40-49
    307 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    Regardless of if he engaged in homosexual sex, or did it for research, or is closeted, or any other possible reason I have read from the comments so far, I have to give the guy kudos.

    It takes a lot of bravery to step out of your own shoes and step into someone else`s, especially when you know the degredation, risks and possible loses that you are going to suffer for doing it. Even known that there are going to be some jerk-offs that are going to doubt you are really straight, or really doing it for research, or anything else.

    This guy took a chance - my sense is there wasn`t sexual activity involved, just as a transvestite really can`t know what it`s like to be a woman.

    I wish that all intolerant, prejudiced, biased and just generally @ssholes would do something like this to see what being on the other side is like.
  13. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:41 pm
    TheGuySmiley

    "It`s Leviticus, from the old testament, yes."

    Isn`t God infallible?

    "it`s kind of like trying to use a `how-to use windows 3.1` book, when windows 7 is out and installed on your computer."

    Windows 3.1 and Windows 7 are TWO DIFFERENT OPERATING SYSTEMS. Do we have two different Gods? Did god get an upgrade? If so does that mean god was wrong before? If God can be wrong why take anything he says as fact?
  14. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm
    DFWBrysco

    Takes a little of the self sacrificing virtue out of it when he happens to be pushing a book no?
  15. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36215 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    The New Testemant with forgiveness is for christians.
    The Old Testement with damnation and hell is for everyone else.

    `nuff said.
  16. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 6:09 pm
    Fancy - last couple of days, bunch of posts just don`t show in `Asia.` (I think)
    Will comment on each, Please fix it
  17. Profile photo of ByOwlPost
    ByOwlPost Female 18-29
    519 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm
    `Asia`, that`s because your internet is being censored by your government! :D
  18. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 8:12 pm
    You`ll have to forgive HG, he doesn`t understand there are two testaments, two covenants of God.

    He believes that since man is fallible that God must be as well. Either that or HG is an atheist troll. I`ll go with the later because of the narcissist nickname he chose for himself here on IAB.
  19. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 8:36 pm
    Yeah, I understand giving BJs and the butt sex were hard for him, but he pressed on in the name of Jesus. B-\
  20. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 8:38 pm
    You`ll have to forgive HG, he doesn`t understand there are two testaments, two covenants of God.

    He believes that since man is fallible that God must be as well.
    1. If God is infallible, why did He change His mind and go all hippy in the New Testament compared to the gore and mass genocide of the Old Testament?
    2. If we`re only to listen to the New Testament, why is the Old Testament even published in Christian Bibles?
    3. Why do you, and millions of others like you, oppose homosexuality if you`re all about the new covenant, that all you have to do is love your neighbour as yourself? All that anti-homo stuff was in the Old Testament, so why you still anti-homo?

    Sorry Crakrjak, you don`t get to have it both ways.

    *p.s. Still waiting for you to comment on that Creationist post over now on page 2 about evolution being a lie. In your own time.
  21. Profile photo of fancythat
    fancythat Male 30-39
    1950 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 8:38 pm
    It`s a story about humanity. It`s a story about decency. It`s a story about $29.95. Don`t wait, don`t delay. But wait, there`s more....
  22. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 9:06 pm
    davymid: I`ve explained all that too you, and everyone else, before. You don`t want to listen or believe it so that`s on you. I`m not going to waste my time explaining it again and again and again and again. I`m not going to `throw pearls before swine` yet again.

    You ask for answers yet won`t open your heart to listen. All you want is an argument, I`m not going to give you one this time. If you have questions, take it up with God, I`m through wasting my time and effort on you.
  23. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 9:18 pm
    Otherwise known as "Your argument`s too good so I`m gonna tell you to talk to my invisible friend instead of trying to counter it".
  24. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 9:20 pm
    All you want is an argument, I`m not going to give you one this time.
    OK, whatever you say. All I was asking for was a reasoned, logical defence of your position on anti-homosexuality based on *Christian* values. But yeah, I`m incapable of understanding, so you take the high road, sister.
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 9:37 pm
    davymid: I`ve given that reasoning, multiple times, tired of wasting my breath.

    Lillian: You`re out of your element. This topic has been discussed at length so many times. before you even started commenting here. I`ve lost count how many times. At some point you have to decide to quit beating your head against a wall, that`s not submission that`s just common sense.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 9:53 pm
    I`m going to go celebrate the Cardinals win over the Nationals now. G`nite.
  27. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 10:26 pm
    davymid

    Thanks for the rebuttal that was basically verbatim of what I would have said, if it wasn`t for the fact that I have given up engaging CJ.
  28. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 11:33 pm
    dayy:
    1. Open a news site to see how stubborn, stiff-necked, and rebellious mankind is, could you lead us? God wants us to acknowledge him and have mercy, loyalty, and goodness.

    2. A programmer will tell you that having the source code is a very good thing. Now swap theologist, or bible scholar or something else similar for programmer.

    3. The world is not perfect. People hate themselves and others, and are at each other`s throats, much to our enemy`s delight. Everyone says that love is the answer, but we need a leader to lead us in this way.

    By allowing us to completely destroy the monetary, political, and religious systems, will we come to realise the point that God made from the beginning: Mankind can not govern ourselves..
  29. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 11:37 pm
    .. no matter what age or era, no matter what technological advantage. We will always use it for evil, and warfare, except this time God will allow for a third and final world war.

    Unless mankinds pride is humbled mightily, we will not listen to God`s ways, so He will out of mercy prevent us from destroying ourselves. Interesting? Sobering is probably more the word.
  30. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    CJ, I`ve been on IAB for 2 years longer than you have. I`ve never seen a good explanation for what you`re telling people to talk to your invisible friend about. If you really want people to understand, you`ll repeat it as many times as necessary. You never know who might read it who hasn`t seen your previous arguments and realize you`re right, if you`re actually right that is.
  31. Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 12:02 am
    this guy has major psychological problems, they should play the psycho movie shrieks in the background.
  32. Profile photo of ScottSerious
    ScottSerious Male 18-29
    5316 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 12:59 am
    damn that was boring
  33. Profile photo of bluevayero
    bluevayero Male 18-29
    226 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 1:37 am
    @theguysmiley
    god made us like hime and gave us free will in order to let us alone walk in life. if we cant govern ourselves then God made a mistake in his calculations. Also according to the same principle our source code are the laws of nature/physics/biology/chemistry. never forget either that in the name of your God you fight Muslims and in the older days with the crusades u fought othomans. ALSO dont forget that in the name of your GOD you fight everyone else who is not like you and you dont respect the identity YOUR GOD has given him
  34. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 5:35 am
    if we cant govern ourselves then God made a mistake in his calculations.

    Incorrect sir, our plans do not interfere with God`s plans. Man created sin, not God. We are at fault for own problems.

    Also, we aren`t fighting wars about religion. We are fighting wars about civility, freedom and justice. Would you rather live under sharia law? No? Then shut the hell up.
  35. Profile photo of SminkyPinky
    SminkyPinky Female 30-39
    233 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 6:04 am
    and if he now goes back to his family and church stating he`s actually straight, it will further concrete their views that homosexuality can be cured. ffs.
  36. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 8:20 am
    bluevayero: we`re not supposed to govern ourselves without God, despite how much the world rejects God. We just need to work in harmony with each other and Him by loving one another, its pretty simple. No one today was alive during those times you mentioned, so saying that I did these things is just just silly, and if you`re implying that `all people with faith did these thigns` then it`s biased. I don`t want to fight anyone, in fact, i would much prefer it if everyone loved one another. We have corrupt leaders today, just as we have corrupt leaders then. Why? Because God is teaching us that we cannot govern ourselves alone, and we need God to lead us down the proper path.
  37. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 8:46 am
    We are fighting wars about civility, freedom and justice

    Nevermind ruthless dictators, even with the pretense of religion, waged wars for control.

    We just need to work in harmony with each other and Him by loving one another, its pretty simple

    People get along fine with free trade and capitalism. Provable, testable concepts no one needs a holy book to understand. In such case God isn`t even relevant in day-to-day life.
  38. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 9:27 am
    Cajun247: if everyone gets along `just fine`, then why is there so much as a single riot?
  39. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 9:46 am
    then why is there so much as a single riot?

    Because not everyone is going to react the same way to a particular circumstance. We can, however, reasonably expect everyone else (90%+) to do so. People should not let every riot, especially small ones, to undermine their faith in humanity and their neighbors in general.
  40. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:01 am
    Okay, I had serious reservations about this just from the link title. I figured, "yeah, whatever. This is going to be some gay-bashing idiot, or, some gay guy who claimed that he was `cured` of the gays by his faith."

    From the video at least, he seems like a guy with a lot on the ball. I`ll check out his book. It`s very inexpensive in the kindle edition, so, why not. I`ll be happy to have been wrong out about him if that`s how it turns out.

    Book is out. It`s called "The Cross in the Closet" by Timothy Kurek.
  41. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:05 am
    Cajun247: so then to rephase, all people do not get along just fine.

    We will some day, when we recognise God as the high priest of our government. But until then it will stand that we cannot govern ourselves.
  42. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:14 am
    TheGuySmiley, when you talk about God governing us, do you mean your God or the god of other citizens who pay taxes? Or the god of still other citizens who`ve paid taxes and served in our military? Or, the goddess of some of our tax paying citizens who`ve been teachers or police officers or job creators here in our great country? Which God will be our governing leader? And, will that god change if the population demographics change and the majority religion changes?
  43. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:18 am
    Cajun It takes more than free trade and capitalism. Without morality even free trade and capitalism can turn into despotism, cronyism and debauchery. Without a guide, then whence does morality come from?

    Despite the hippy belief that morals are ingrained in our nature, they most certainly are not. Proof of this is on most inner city street corners. Gangs, drugs, alcoholism, prostitution, robbery, rape, arson and murder are our baser sinful nature.
  44. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:31 am
    SmagBoy1: there is only one God, and while He may be known by different names, and described different ways by different people, there is still only one true and living God.
  45. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:33 am
    Without a guide, then whence does morality come from?

    Vacuously if I were to attack ANYONE, it would incur an opportunity cost for a mutually beneficial partnership in the future. Humans understood that LONG before religion came along.

    Gangs, drugs, alcoholism, prostitution, robbery, rape, arson and murder are our baser sinful nature.

    Gangs, rape, arson, and murder are why we have something called the "rule of law". Everything else you consider "sinful" I consider "people trying bring gratification in their short lives". If there are dangers in such practices it is a risk they accept.
  46. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 10:44 am
    Cajun: The "rule of law", doesn`t motivate people to be moral, never has. Human nature is selfish, greedy, power hungry and sinful.

    We don`t live in the stone age, we don`t hunt for our food, we don`t gather materials to make fire to keep warm, etc...

    It`s all about money, power, and pleasure now. That`s how far we`ve fallen as a society.

    The ideal of "Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet" died in the sixties, sadly.

    We need religion to guide us back to the morality we`ve lost, otherwise society is just going to get worse.
  47. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4718 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 11:08 am

    TheGuySmiley - you are right about there being only one true god. It`s my god. He will kick you and your gods a$$ because he is tired of you trolling with bible verses in the comment section.
  48. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 11:26 am
    We need religion to guide us back to the morality we`ve lost, otherwise society is just going to get worse.

    Well let`s see, in the past century human longevity has doubled, real wages have gone up, and crimes against the person have gone down worldwide. Sounds like capitalism slowly but surely working its majic across different (and even conflicting) faiths and value systems, enhancing society in general. All of this despite two world wars, multiple close calls to doomsday, and even Earth-shattering recessions. Granted the world`s in a bit of a slump right now, but it will eventually come out better and stronger than before. All in the meantime religions in the Americas and Europe is either adapting or in decline.
  49. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 11:27 am
    The "rule of law", doesn`t motivate people to be moral, never has.

    That`s not even it`s purpose, it is to discourage people from harming each other.
  50. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 11:46 am
    But until then it will stand that we cannot govern ourselves.

    Consider two possibilities:
    1)You actually have more faith in humans than God, yet for some reason you don`t want to admit it even to yourself. 2)You live in a bubble of fear and suspicion that can only be opened by other Christians. This is because the only way to achieve peace (no rioting, no wars, no crime, etc) is for everyone to embrace God and thus become Christian.

    I rule out possibility #2 considering that you have TWO-WAY conversations with the former more often than with the latter. More often you rely on the former to give you your internet, food, utilities, job etc.
  51. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 11:59 am
    continued from below...

    Obviously people of God would be loving, caring and harmonious with their neighbors that they wouldn`t dare elect actual nazis and communists to office (Greece), or riot in the streets against a corrupt government (Spain), or use the military to meddle in the internal affairs of foreign nations.

    The point is this: I have to be cynical to ANYONE who claims to be a person of God promoting his love. Even they are capable of being intolerant and violent as their non-Christian counterparts. Even so I don`t let that bother me as chances are I know each person I come across isn`t going stab me in the back when I look away, or rub me the wrong way out of spite. I don`t need faith in God to know that.
  52. Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    Wow, what a douche. Hey guys I`m going to be gay for a year and write a book about it, even though there are hundreds of thousands of other people who are more qualified to write about it than I am.

    Oh, and I can also go between being gay and straight whenever I want, so... yeah, it really is more of a choice.

    The only way this could be even worse is if he "came out" as a stereotypical `queen`.
  53. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 2:16 pm
    So, I wonder if anyone wanted to research the idea of "things are getting worse, they were so much better way back when, today`s generation and society is falling into moral decay" etc., how far back they could go? I know for sure that Socrates is credited with this gem, "Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

    So, yeah, that ignorant attitude of "moral decay nowadays" (with fist shaking along with it) is as old as the day is long. And then some. And here`s what I think of that: whatever.
  54. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 3:35 pm
    And here`s what I think of that: whatever.

    It`s a good thing too. We should always challenge the rules and norms. If they`re not justified let them fall by the wayside. Such social Darwinism is a wonderful force. If a tradition does enhance the well being and prosperity of society then they are kept. If they don`t they`re left behind to decay. All spontaneously of course.
  55. Profile photo of DFWBrysco
    DFWBrysco Male 40-49
    307 posts
    October 13, 2012 at 7:12 pm
    Cajun... I`m shocked... I`m actually finding myself agreeing with you on your comments about morality.

    And I find myself strongly disagreeing with CrakrJak (as usual). I most definitely do not consider myself a religious person - I don`t know if I would go as far as saying that I am an atheist, but not really spirtual either... I guess (as I wrote on another post) if God floating down in all his glory and stood before me, I would most definitely start believing that he was more than a fairy tale.

    Despite all of that, I consider myself an extremely moral person with a high sense of self and feel that I am highly knowledgable in my sense of right and wrong. This was not imparted to me by some mystical floating entity, or a book that could very well be as much fiction and urban legend than anything else.

    It is my human nature, and I pity CrakrJak for being so pessimistic.
  56. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 3:54 am
    Cajun: Such social Darwinism is a wonderful force.

    The Germans, in particular the Nazi party, thought that was a wonderful force s well. Social Darwinism is evil, period. It leads to eugenics, forced sterilizations and genocide.

    Attempting to `evolve mankind` by means of social darwinism is folly, what it does do is turn a society into monstrous fascism.

    You do not get to decide what rules/laws that you will or will not live by, just because you do or do not like them. Morality backs the law, Religion backs morality. Tear out it`s foundations and any house will fall.
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 4:04 am
    DFWBrysco: You were indeed taught morality, by your parents, teachers and mentors. Human nature is not innately good, We are taught to be good. The source of that morality is religion. It didn`t spontaneously erupt out of nowhere and it didn`t come from nature.

    I`d rather be pessimistic than optimistic. Optimists are frequently disappointed when their wishes don`t come true. As a pessimist, if my wishes don`t come true I`m not disappointed, if they do come true then I`m pleasantly surprised.
  58. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 6:15 am
    The Germans, in particular the Nazi party, thought that was a wonderful force s well

    Losing the debate? Play this card.

  59. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 6:25 am
    The source of that morality is religion.

    No, morality precludes religion. Humans understood the value in respecting and caring for each other long before religion.
  60. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 6:41 am
    Social Darwinism is evil, period. It leads to eugenics, forced sterilizations and genocide.

    Well, lets see such policies were obviously unpopular and thus social Darwinism did away with them in the 1970s. Thus you are again as usual equating evolution and Darwin to the Nazis. It is an utterly tenuous connection at best.
  61. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 6:42 am
    You were indeed taught morality, by your parents, teachers and mentors. Human nature is not innately good, We are taught to be good

    Which means we also LEARN morality, something that was done long before religion. So the point is moot.
  62. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 6:43 am
    Cajun247: If you have to be cynical, that`s your choice, but the bottom line is that mankind needs God, and there are 1000`s of years of history to look at showing how mankind cannot govern itself successfully, and it`s going on even still today.
  63. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 7:07 am
    there are 1000`s of years of history to look at showing how mankind cannot govern itself successfully, and it`s going on even still today.

    There`s also thousands of years of history that shows people who claim to be of God can also fail at governing themselves.
  64. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 7:09 am
    TheGuySmiley, what do you mean about 1000s of years of history showing that man can`t govern himself effectively. Isn`t that statement inherently contradictory? I mean, sure, we don`t all live in total peace and love, but, there are just as many countries at war run under theocracies as those under non-theocratic governments (if not more). And if you look at the happiest countries in the world, or those ranked as the ones with best opportunities for health and wellbeing of their populace, you`ll find almost all have populations with a very large secular segments--and certainly all with secular governments (sources . here, and here, etc.)
  65. Profile photo of mcmals
    mcmals Female 18-29
    146 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 7:57 am
    this guy gets it
  66. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 9:17 am
    cajun/smagboy: you`re both just restating the point i`ve been making this entire thread. Mankind cannot govern itself, God will govern mankind. Not men, women, nations, governments or religions speaking for God, but God Himself.
  67. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 9:46 am
    Mankind cannot govern itself, God will govern mankind

    How will God govern mankind? There`s only evidence that people will make that claim without evidence to back it up. Mankind has been governing itself for all of history, and despite all the atrocities quality of life has improved for everyone around the world.
  68. Profile photo of Langer
    Langer Male 18-29
    394 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    Attempting to `evolve mankind` by means of social darwinism is folly, what it does do is turn a society into monstrous fascism.

    what a coincidence...that`s also what archaic fundamentalism derived from religion does

    on that note, why follow Jesus? was he not killed by other fundamentalists that did not want their religion/morality altered? sure there`s the warm squishy feeling of having a god that gives a rats ass about your existence, but by your logic, you have to keep going back further to get to the correct religion/morality, that or possibly go and follow the teaching of the next person that claims to be the sun of god that you meet

    picking an arbitrary point in history and deciding that you`ll follow those codes & standards is definitely not the best way to determine how to live your life...then on top of it when you pick and choose which parts of said codes & standards to follow and discard the rest, what is the point?
  69. Profile photo of Fleaman1797
    Fleaman1797 Male 18-29
    718 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    No no! you dont get it! im not REALLLLLY Gay. im just sucking all these c-ocks for RESEARCH Mom!!
  70. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 9:13 pm
    We need religion to guide us back to the morality we`ve lost, otherwise society is just going to get worse.
    You mean *YOUR* religion, Crakrjak. Funny you say that, Muslims tell us the exact same thing. As does every other religion. F*ck, you can`t *ALL* be right.

    Forgive me if I treat all religion with an equal amount of disdain. I`ll put my faith in Humanity. If that fails, then we`ve no-one to blame it on but ourselves.
  71. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 14, 2012 at 9:21 pm
    Also, how did I know Crakrjak was going to delve deep into the pockets and haul out the Nazis and Eugenics? Again.

    Dick. Debate like an adult, FFS.
  72. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 6:47 am
    The "rule of law", doesn`t motivate people to be moral, never has.
    Suppose I could say the same thing for eternal punishment vs. eternal happiness. Can`t really be about morals when in the end it all comes down to reward vs. punishment.
  73. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 7:34 am
    davymid: I see some people refuse to learn from the mistakes of history and keep wanting to dive into the evil pool of social darwinism.

    When will you learn that YOU CAN"T EVOLVE PEOPLE.
    And don`t kid yourself, that`s exactly what the goal of social darwinism is.

    Since when did the tenets of Christianity become so maligned? Love your neighbor as yourself, accept Christ as your savior and pray for the forgiveness of your sins. Are those 3 things that hard? Are they that abhorrent? Since when are those `bad things`?

    It doesn`t require you change you politics, it doesn`t require you disbelieve science, heck it doesn`t even require you to go to a church on Sunday.

    Morals need a good foundation, that foundation is religion. Just pick a good foundation, not one built on some half-crazed pedophile warlord and walking around a black meteorite.
  74. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 7:38 am
    YOU CAN"T EVOLVE PEOPLE.
    Given enough time, over subsequent generations you certainly can. If it works for all plants and animals what makes humans exempt?
  75. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 11:40 am
    I see some people refuse to learn from the mistakes of history and keep wanting to dive into the evil pool of social darwinism.

    I see some people don`t even understand what social darwinism *is*.

    Love your neighbor as yourself

    See this is a taste of how social darwinism works, this rule is such a benevolent one that it has been adopted and worded into almost every religion and value system on the planet. Spontaneously of course, which goes back to my point of how humans understand or easily learn the value in working with one another.
  76. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 11:47 am
    patchgrabber: Don`t get me wrong, I do believe civilization and society can improve. But that`s more a function of improving living standards, healthcare, education, employment and technology.

    We still have our baser instincts intact and those are our true nature. We learn to become `civilized` and moral people it`s not innate.
    And we most definitely get our morals from religion.
  77. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 11:50 am
    Cajun: Perhaps it is you that doesn`t understand what the term means. "...the ideology has also motivated ideas of eugenics, scientific racism, imperialism, fascism, Nazism and struggle between national or racial groups." - Wikipedia
  78. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 11:55 am
    `Survival of the fittest`, when applied to human beings leads to evil. Under no uncertainty it is the most vile, terrible and divisive concept man has ever conceived.
  79. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    Social Darwinism and Darwinism aren`t the same thing.
    Social Darwinism gives rise to awful people who think that being rich (even if they just inherited it), makes them better people.
    Look at he Feudal system, same thing, inherited land, titles, money and privilege. And it produced some of the greatest scumbags of all time, then held them in power.
  80. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    CrakrJak,
    while I agree Social Darwinism is a dodgy practice (see last post),

    `And we most definitely get our morals from religion.`

    I disagree, Religion does not guarantee morals, nor does having good morals infer religion.

    `Since when did the tenets of Christianity become so maligned? Love your neighbor as yourself, accept Christ as your savior and pray for the forgiveness of your sins. Are those 3 things that hard? Are they that abhorrent? Since when are those `bad things`? `

    Love thy neighbour as yourself - of course that`s good, but hardly unique to Christianity.
    As for the other two, how can you accept something you don`t believe in? I just don`t believe my eternal soul rests upon following the repeatedly edited and translated words of some middle-eastern dude who died 2000 years ago.
    Also, Christianity isn`t really a system of faith, Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheran Presbyterian etc. Those are the religions, And you have to choos
  81. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 12:28 pm
    Social Darwinism and Darwinism aren`t the same thing.

    The way I see it, it`s a spontaneous process in which society selects and preserves the traditions and norms that ultimately enhance human well being. Not an artificial construct humans can use to identify "deficients" in society. There`s no way for them to know who`s deficient. Every human is capable of contributing to society.

    Also Crakr I like how you ignored the first clause of that sentence:

    Many such views stress competition between individuals in laissez-faire capitalism
  82. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 12:39 pm
    Survival of the fittest`, when applied to human beings leads to evil

    Correction: when POLITICIZED it becomes MISAPPLIED to human beings.

    Science does not misapply the concept to human beings. Only politicians are capable of such malfeasance.

  83. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    Cajun: That`s because social darwinism is not capitalist in nature. It`s socialist in nature and the countries in which it has been applied have been communist, socialist and fascist. Those 3 systems of government are about government control and manipulation of production.

    Laissez-faire capitalism, with no regulation, leads to monopolies and oligarchies, that is totally the opposite of `evolution` as a concept.

    Regulated capitalism and fair trade lead to better competition and more consumer choice.
  84. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 4:59 pm
    That`s because social darwinism is not capitalist in nature. It`s socialist in nature and the countries in which it has been applied have been communist, socialist and fascist. Those 3 systems of government are about government control and manipulation of production.

    This is an inherently contradictory statement. Darwinism is all about competition, which statists simply don`t understand.

    Laissez-faire capitalism

    Laissez-faire does not mean totally unbound by regulation. Simply enough regulation to protect property rights against theft and aggression.
  85. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 15, 2012 at 5:36 pm
    Now that I think about it, a more appropriate term is "social evolution". Hitler et al engaged in what I`d call "collectivist Darwinism" a total perversion of Darwin`s ideas.
  86. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    October 16, 2012 at 6:42 pm
    Actually CrakrJak, social Darwinism was heavily favoured in America, from slavery, to the actions of Industrialists.
    Any system can implement it.


    `The way I see it, it`s a spontaneous process in which society selects and preserves the traditions and norms that ultimately enhance human well being. Not an artificial construct humans can use to identify "deficients" in society.`

    That`s another problem with the concept, it`s vague, and can actually mean conflicting things.

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