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Date: 10/22/12 11:44 AM

43 Responses to Remember That Obama`s A Muslim Church Sign?

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18931 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 11:46 am
    Link: Remember That Obama`s A Muslim Church Sign? - I-A-B posted a church sign from The Church In The Valley in Texas this weekend. Guess who might lose tax-exempt status.
  2. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36835 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 11:57 am

    A "church" is supposed to attend to the spiritual matters and needs of it`s congregation. If it enters the political realm, it`s overstepping the line and should be taxed. If it opens a store, or sells things in other ways, it`s not a church it`s a business.... tax it.
  3. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    @Gerry1of1 - You are 100% correct sir! Since a church is basically a non-profit organization they`re not allowed to participate actively in political campaigns.

    Consequences of Church Tax Exemptions
  4. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    "non-profit organization they`re not allowed to participate actively in political campaigns"

    Agreed. So how did the Church of Latter Day Saints get away with contributing to efforts to ban same sex marriage in California?
  5. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    As I mentioned in the previous thread, this isn`t some isolated incident. There`s an active movement to challenge the existing rules on political speech in tax-exempted religious organizations. Link
  6. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:27 pm
    That`s the problem, they donate some of that money they don`t pay taxes on to politicians who then keep the IRS off their backs. That`s one hell of a racket!!!
  7. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4916 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    Gerry1of1 you are completly right. I live in Italy where the church historicaly have lot of influence in politic, our right paties are strictly "affiliated" with church, and also somecenet left party have some link with it. The church in my country have a really huge ammount of land and building properties, evry church on the italian soil is to consider Vatican territory so if you think that every single city, town, village in Italy have at least one or more church you can understand what i am sayng. Untill today this properties where freew from taxation, but hopefully nowaday is passing a law that impose taxes to church properties that aren`t just for religious cult but that are also for profit, like privates catholics schools( oh this "privates" structures recives funds payed by italian citizens too) from the state and so on. I really hope that in the future we will have a real separation between state and church cause our constitution clearly talk about of freedo
  8. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4916 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    freedom of worship and clearly say that Italian state is a laic state.
  9. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    Wait a second.

    Are they losing tax exempt status because of this sign?

    If so, that`s a clear violation of free speech.
  10. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    Why exactly is Obama a Muslim again? Because he`s black? He`s only half black, so he`s only half Muslim.
  11. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    @auburnjunky - No, it`s not a violation of free speech. Since churches are tax exempt they cannot actively participate in political campaigns. Having this on the sign in front of the church clearly indicates they are attempting to campaign for Romney.
  12. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:18 pm
    AuburnJinky

    You may want to read up a bit before you say things.

    "Tax-exempt nonprofit organizations categorized under IRC 501(c)(3) in federal law are are absolutely prohibited from engaging in "political activity."


    "In IRC 501(c)(3), political activity is described as "participat in, or interven in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.""

    So this sign is, quite obviously, against the rules for what a tax exempt organization is allowed to do.
  13. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:19 pm
    If the pastor put a sign in his front lawn, on his own property, that`s acceptable. This sign, on church property, is not acceptable.
  14. Profile photo of bophus
    bophus Male 30-39
    474 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    Auburn...

    They are not violating their right of free speech at all. Say you went into work dressed in a swastika shirt with a white power hat on. YOu would be fired. However, you are still allowed to wear it, therefore they are not violating your rights. You just wouldnt have a job anymore. Since there are rules to tax exempt status and one of those rules was broken, they could be punished by removing their tax expemt status.

    They will be allowed to have this sign up until the rapture (see what I did there), but they would pay taxes.
  15. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2374 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    If the church wants to remain tax-exempt, then they need to stick to badgering their imaginary Sky Wizards and stay the phucke out of real-world matters like politics.

    No violation of free speech here. They are free to say whatever they want -- but if they enter the political arena, they have to pay taxes like EVERY OTHER ENTITY ON THE EFFING PLANET.

    Only hard to understand if you`re a complete moron.
  16. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    Agreed agreed. Make `em take it down then.
  17. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    Why a church choosing sides and dividing their flock? Isn`t church supposed to be for everyone? The bible should never be used to make one group of people feel less important.
  18. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    I hope they get every stinking one of these churches that do this crap. I don`t care if it is for or against, keep your filthy effing religions out of our election.
  19. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3879 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:55 pm
    no one should be exempt from paying taxes. imagine how much 1% tax would be on the earnings of one of those mega churches (a la joel osteen). makes you think.

    and if they taxed churches AND legalized marijuana, with its attendant excise taxes, i think the deficit could be taken care of pretty quick.

    but that`s just my opinion. i`m obviously not intelligent enough to run for any kind of public office.
  20. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:57 pm
    Hey, Auburn, they don`t have to take it down. They can say whatever they want. They just have to pay taxes (property, income, investment, etc.). So, their choice.
  21. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    slut_etta, they could also legalize and mandate standards for prostitution (a victimless "crime") and other drugs besides marijuana, too. Not only would this increase revenue, it would free up an incredible amount of law enforcement efforts and resources. Cost effective all the way around!
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    SmagBoy1

    Don`t forget the third leg of the victimless crime stool, gambling.
  23. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 3:01 pm
    Yes, HolyGod! I`m all for not forgetting the third leg!!! I mean, I`m not gay (not that there`s anything wrong with it), but, yes, absolutely, gambling, too!
  24. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 3:24 pm
    SmagBoy1

    It is funny how much people like to throw around the word "fee" in this country, as if they are bragging. The reality is that we are one of the less free industrialized nations.

    It would be interesting to see what the financial effect of legalizing drugs, gambling and prostitution would be. You could tax all three for new revenue and then there would be tremendous savings at the state, federal, and local level by eliminating vice enforcement, dea, needless court resources, and at least HALF of the prison budget.

    Lets` do that and leave Big Bird alone.
  25. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 4:58 pm
    If marijuana was legalized, sold and taxed like alcohol & tobacco the US could save/make over $13 Billion per year.
  26. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    $13 Billion seems really really low to me. This doesn`t seem to take into account the revenue of the growers and sellers that could be taxed.

    Let`s say it is closer to $25 Billion. Let`s say legalizing other drugs gets you to $100 Billion. Prostitution and gambling legalization could theoretically do close to the same between saving on penalization and enforcement and earning tax revenue.

    That is $300 Billion a year.

    Then we could stop being imperialists, get our troops out of other countries, and strengthen our DEFENSE while cutting defense spending by $200 Billion a year.

    Roll back $100 Billion on welfare programs that are being taken advantage of.

    Raise taxes on the top 10% and corporations for another $400 Billion.

    That is $1 Trillion a year towards the debt. We could wipe it out in 20 years. Then reduce taxes and force balanced budgets moving forward.
  27. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6905 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    Then we actually get to be "free". We aren`t needlessly imprisoning our citizens. We aren`t needlessly killing people in other countries. We aren`t racking up debt.
  28. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    "Raise taxes on...corporations"

    We already have the highest corporate tax in the world. Do you really want to kill all the jobs?
  29. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:02 pm
    AJ: "We already have the highest corporate tax in the world. Do you really want to kill all the jobs?"

    Thar`s before all the loopholes, deductions, etc that they enjoy. In fact, corporate tax rates are the lowest they`ve ever been. 10 years ago corporations paid 32% of the entire federal revenue. Today they only pay 8% of it.
  30. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:03 pm
    And once again, this pastor(and anyone who supports his statement) knows nothing about Muslims, or Communism.
  31. Profile photo of jops360
    jops360 Male 30-39
    689 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:09 pm
    how about this... raise capital gains taxes on people making more than $500,000 a year. we already know that these people make a majority of their money by claiming their income is ALL capital gains,thus giving them lower tax liability. yet what is the first thing Romney wants? 0% capital gains tax. he is not fighting for our freedom, he is fighting for no taxes for him and his friends. so i say raise it over 50%, that way they DO pay their regular percent. putting a low cap on it still lets people save and grow but it would stop those taking advantage of it.
  32. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:13 pm
    Thar`s before all the loopholes, deductions, etc that they enjoy. In fact, corporate tax rates are the lowest they`ve ever been

    All of which got pushed in there as a response to increasing tax rates.
  33. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:19 pm
    If you look at pre-tax income and tax revenue you`ll notice that the rich pay more than their fair share in taxes:
  34. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 9:23 pm
    Tax here is max 15%. If you earned a billion dollars, you wouldn`t pay more than 15%.
  35. Profile photo of ultimakewl
    ultimakewl Male 18-29
    833 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 9:28 pm
    non-denominational church...
    isnt that just code for `i want to spew my hate without having to follow your rules` house?
  36. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 9:48 pm
    how christian of them
  37. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 11:18 pm
    Why lie? Black Liberation Theology is MUCH worse than Islam.
  38. Profile photo of Tekinette
    Tekinette Male 30-39
    273 posts
    October 23, 2012 at 3:10 am
    Cajun247 > Why not use a chart that actually makes sense ? Like the tax rate ? Oh right because the US wouldn`t even be in a Top 20.
  39. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 23, 2012 at 3:33 am
    The tax-exempt status of a church has been revoked by the IRS only once for engaging in overtly political activity, and that revocation was merely temporary.

    It`s clear that the IRS doesn`t want to be the `speech police`, as the only time it`s taken away the tax exempt status of a church it was very unpopular.

    I could find one case where this action was taken against a church, way back in 1995. This rule has never been brought before the Supreme Court.

    Groups have even tried to provoke the IRS into this action again, every year since 2008, and the IRS hasn`t responded.
  40. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 23, 2012 at 7:25 am
    @CJ: So it`s ok for a church to engage in politics then? Or are you merely stating that in point of fact?
  41. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    October 23, 2012 at 8:31 am
    Pay taxes or shut up.
  42. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 23, 2012 at 10:46 am
    patchgrabber: I have no problem with anyone engaging in politics, so long as they aren`t advocating the overthrow of our democracy.
  43. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 4:41 am
    Vote to end Church`s, Vote Sanity!

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