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Date: 10/19/12 10:46 PM

85 Responses to Preacher Gives Interesting Gay Rights Speech

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18942 posts
    October 19, 2012 at 10:47 pm
    Link: Preacher Gives Interesting Gay Rights Speech - ...with a bit of a twist. Watch the entire speech for the pastor`s switch-a-roo. Don`t worry, it`s a short speech.
  2. Profile photo of Javien
    Javien Male 18-29
    270 posts
    October 19, 2012 at 11:09 pm
    Great ending, a very clever way of making a point.
  3. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    359 posts
    October 19, 2012 at 11:23 pm
    Good point, eloquently achieved.
  4. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    October 19, 2012 at 11:33 pm
    That was awesome. Way to show what bigots these people really are. Love and tolerance will win.
  5. Profile photo of Tacos4Brkfst
    Tacos4Brkfst Male 18-29
    620 posts
    October 19, 2012 at 11:33 pm
    Waht a twist
  6. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 12:15 am
    The problem is nothing in the bible supports racial segregation.

    When Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, he didn`t qualify it by saying, `Only the neighbors that look like you`.
  7. Profile photo of insanmonster
    insanmonster Male 18-29
    291 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 12:39 am
    I would like to point out to you Crakrjak that the bible also says a lot of other things that no one abides by...shaving ones beard, eating shellfish etc. one of my biggest problems with the bible is that people pick and choose what they want to believe it means. Some things that the bible says people say "it is out of date and it doesn`t apply anymore" and other things that people say are "homosexuality is a sin and should not be tolerated" and "marriage should be between a man and a woman". It is just not a clear and concise set of "rules" and is open for much interpretation.
  8. Profile photo of Stebano
    Stebano Male 18-29
    29 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 12:59 am
    Usually hate preachers, but that was a great speech. Thumbs up, sir.
  9. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 1:35 am
    Hummmmm.

    Once again:

    Race and Sexual Orientation are NOT THE SAME!

    Sexual orientation is inward. Race is outward.

    I support equality for homosexuals. EQUALITY.

    Let`s call a spade a spade here though.
  10. Profile photo of som-tam
    som-tam Male 18-29
    714 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 2:04 am
    whatevs, it it ethical to force your beliefs onto someone else? it appears most people would say `yes` for liberal political beliefs and `no` for religious beliefs.
    political beliefs are no different than religious beliefs. just opinions not facts.
  11. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 2:42 am
    Idiot: Substitute "Pedophile Rights" and get exactly the same result. EXACTLY!
    Complete jack-arse thinks far too much of himself, this is a kindergarden worthy "arguement" that`s not worth the effort of "refuting"...
  12. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 4:01 am
    Let`s call a spade a spade here. Brilliamt Auburn. That`s all you needed to say to 100% prove his point.
  13. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 4:03 am
    No, 5Cats, that`s not the same. It`s EXACTLY NOT the same. Pedophile rights as you fantasize about would necessarily invade the rights of others. They`d allow someone assault rights over someone unable to protect themselves. Gay rights are about rights between consenting adults, you bigoted troglodyte.
  14. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 4:06 am
    som-tam, no one is "forcing" their beliefs on you. Gay rights don`t cause YOU to become gay, do they? Gay rights don`t cause YOU to marry a same-sex partner, do they? Gay rights don`t weaken or undermine YOUR marriage, do they? The idea that supporting gay rights, rights that should belong to tax paying citizens of our country, is somehow "forcing" a viewpoint on non-gays sounds a bit like the position someone who`s a little bit scared of their sexual orientation would take.
  15. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 4:08 am
    CrakrJak, nothing in Bible supports marriage being between one man and one woman any more or less than it supports racial segregation. I can quote a whole truckload of verses that support racial segregation--hell, the Republican presidential candidate`s own religion used them until the early 70s! Denying the past, and shamefully recent past, doesn`t make it magically disappear.
  16. Profile photo of Chives
    Chives Male 18-29
    55 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 5:21 am
    He wasn`t saying that race and sexuality were equivalent, he was saying that the arguments against desegregation/gay rights laws are the same. 5cats, pedophilia isn`t even in the same league as homosexuality, considering that pedophilia involves a minor.
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:13 am
    @SmagBoy & @Chives: What! You`d deny a person his or her rights based on AGE? Are you ageists or something? OH! Next you`ll say: no one over 50 is allowed to have sex anymore!
    It`s just an arbitrary number: 18, 16, 14, 12 you have no scientific basis to pick it out of the air!
    Besides: People are BORN GAY right? Therefor they`re sexually oriented FROM BIRTH! Same goes for pedophiles! How dare you discriminate against them!
    What about the UN`s "Rights of the Person"? Eh? The right to freely express one`s sexuality means NOTHING to you? You`d ignore the UN?!?
    Consentual sex between TWO PERSONS is NOT a crime!
    Pedophileophobic!!!
    I`ll bet you ARE ONE, just in the closet about it!!! HA!

    (idk what`s funnier: @SmagBoy swallowing the bait or the fact that he thinks I`m being serious!)
    (Sorry @Chives, you got caught in the crossfire, welcome to IAB!)
  18. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:19 am
    If you watch the longer video this one links to, you`ll see an old man near the 30min mark make his point as a business owner. If you`ve already watched it, you`ll get where I`m going. He said:

    "If this law passes, lets say I`m advertising for a receptionist at my law firm that sits at the front desk. In comes a black woman. However, I don`t hire because of the embarrassment to my firm, the potential loss of business, the difficulty with my existing white employees, and the fact that I didn`t leave my moral beliefs at the door when I came to work that morning. So now a complaint is made, I`m fined for not hiring this black woman, and the ACLU sues me."

    You guys get what this ordnance is mostly about, right? Fair hiring practices and government ran public facilities. As far as fair hiring practices go, not hiring based on someone`s association as LBGT, is EXACTLY the same as not hiring
  19. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7069 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:25 am
    @CrakrJak

    `The problem is nothing in the bible supports racial segregation.`

    Genesis 24:3
    Exodus 11:7
    Leviticus 25: 44 - 46
    Leviticus 22:25
    Deuteronomy 7:3
    Deuteronomy 23:3
    Ezra 9:2
    Numbers 25:6 - 8
    Joel 3:17
    Matthew 10:5
    Matthew 15:24 - 26

  20. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:26 am
    based on race. You do it out of prejudice. You assume the behavior and/or appearance of this gay/black is going to have a negative effect on your business, so that`s that.
  21. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:44 am
    5Cats, I`d not deny anyone their personal rights--and that includes pedophiles. A pedophile who doesn`t act on his/her proclivities is not a problem to me. It`s when he/she acts, when he/she violates the rights of someone else, that it`s a problem. And that goes for any issue. I don`t have a problem with a gay sex, but, I do have a problem with "gay" rape, if you want to parse it like that. It`s not the gay part that`s the problem, it`s the infringing on someone else`s rights. Assault and/or battery, etc. You can pretend you were just "baiting" all you want. One would *hope* that you`d never collude consensual homosexuality with realized pedophilia.
  22. Profile photo of Langer
    Langer Male 18-29
    394 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:05 am
    Jesus wasn`t very tolerant of Samaritans
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:09 am
    Jim: Genesis 3, Not segregation. Abraham was just looking for a wife for his son.
    Exodus 11, The Jews were the slaves in that situation, this was cultural not racial.
    Leviticus 22, Has to do with acceptable sacrifices, God expected his people to raise those animals for themselves so they would be without blemish.
    Leviticus 25, Is talking about servants, not slaves. The Jews didn`t treat their servants like the southern states treated their slaves. In fact, Jewish servants were treated much like family members. Verse 53: "They are to be treated as workers hired from year to year; you must see to it that those to whom they owe service do not rule over them ruthlessly."
    Deuteronomy 7, 23, Ezra 9, Numbers 25, Joel 3, The Jews were God`s chosen people and he didn`t want them marrying pagan worshipers, which has nothing to do with present times.
    Matthew 15:24 - 26, You should`ve include the rest of that passage, Jesus healed the Canaanite woman`s daughter.
  24. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:18 am
    I know you`re not being completely serious 5Cats but:
    "It`s just an arbitrary number: 18, 16, 14, 12 you have no scientific basis to pick it out of the air!"
    Pedophilia refers to the sexual attraction to prepubescent children. It`s not an arbitrary number and it`s one that varies from child to child. Most of us also have a problem with adults having sex with post-pubescent minors but that`s a different issue than pedophilia.
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:18 am
    Jim: Not one of those passages justifies segregation in this time. Jesus came to set us all free, he died for everyone`s sins, not a select few.

    Btw, Matthew 10 was instructions just for his 12 apostles, to keep them safe so that they could reach as wide an audience as possible, to keep them safe and not get killed.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:20 am
    Langer: A tasteless piece of comedy is not fact.
  27. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:27 am
    5 cats ~ despite your joviality, it`s a bit of a concern that you tried to equate homosexuality (nothing wrong between consenting adults) with paedophilia (which, even with a consenting minor is wrong). Seeing as there are clear parallels between racism and homophobia, the preachers point stands, whereas your counterpoint is weak.

    However, it did get me thinking, there are probably paedophiles out there who wish they weren`t, don`t act on their twisted desires, and deserve more of a place in society than heterosexual rapists. Disturbing thought eh?

    I expect some boys who like boys and girls who like girls probably went through a period when they wished they were `normal`. However, I`ve not asked any of the gay people I have known such an awkward question. If they are now happy with who they are, and why shouldn`t they be, then that`s cool. Don`t you think?
  28. Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:32 am
    this argument has come round in so many forms, almost as if it is different because the subject seems different. Gayness, prochoice, eating shellfish, jew/christian/muslim..
    The bottem line is this.. its a PERSONAL FAITH. If you want to believe in something, by all means do. If it is to effect anyone else, it stops being a faith and starts being a doctrine, an opresive tool to manage the masses. kinda like communistic dictatorships or totalitarian regimes.
    The true idea of freedom is the right to chose.. How does it effect me if a guy likes guys or a girl likes girls.. if they arent focusing their attention on me, it shouldnt, and if they do, why the hell cant i say no? o wait, i can.
    It has to do with education and raising of our children and with that the society.
    there are laws with a reason. and there are laws based on doctrine.

    And saying someone should be punished (or is wrong)for they do not follow the bible is judging, noone has the right for that.
  29. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:33 am
    Man oh man, people, including our Republican presidential candidate`s religion, sure used a lot of verses from the Bible to justify slavery and segregation and, you know, the "hangin` of #$%&%^$".

    Revisionists history is simply ignoring the very real truth of that fact. I grew up in the South in the 70s and 80s and I remember "Men" "Women" and "Colored" bathrooms, and "Whites" and "Colored" water fountains. And that wasn`t because of how the non-Christians felt about the issue. So, pretend all you want. Inconvenient facts aren`t untrue just because they`re inconvenient.
  30. Profile photo of Django
    Django Male 30-39
    230 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:38 am
    I went out to browse the web for "bible verses segregation race" and I came across a few churches down South that still preach against the "mongrelization of our nation." Hard to believe people continue to use the Bible to support hate and oppression.
  31. Profile photo of Kegomatix
    Kegomatix Male 18-29
    1341 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:57 am
    Really didn`t see that coming haha.. I was so close to just stopping the video.
  32. Profile photo of broizfam
    broizfam Male 60-69
    4892 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:03 am
    auburnjunky: You`re correct...race and sexual orientation are not the same...but prejudice is still prejudice, and basing it on the translation, by some humans, of the supposed word of a god some people believe in is, very simply, wrong. Glad you stated your support for equality. Also, be careful with calling "a spade a spade". I know what it actually means but it gets misinterpreted.
  33. Profile photo of Kegomatix
    Kegomatix Male 18-29
    1341 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:04 am
    Wow... And then I read the comments posted here. I can`t believe how ridiculous people can be... Why won`t religion just die?
  34. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7069 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:16 am
    `Jesus healed the Canaanite woman`s daughter.`

    Only after she agreed that she was a worthless dog.
  35. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:20 am
    @CJ: The point is not necessarily that the Bible actually promotes racial segregation. The point is that white religious leaders USED those passages to promote racial bigotry, just as they`re doing now with homophobia.
  36. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7069 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:39 am
    `In fact, Jewish servants were treated much like family members.`

    Exodus 21: 20 - 21

    And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.



  37. Profile photo of Sistarose
    Sistarose Female 30-39
    373 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:41 am
    Just a demonstration of how history forgets who stands against progress.
    @5cats, you know satire never travels well on the Internet.
  38. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:52 am
    "Man oh man, people, including our Republican presidential candidate`s religion, sure used a lot of verses from the Bible to justify slavery and segregation and, you know, the "hangin` of #$%&%^$"." As I understand it, this applies to the Democrat incumbent as well.
  39. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:56 am
    Well!
    I`m happily surprised that y`all IABers `get it` that I`m not (seriously, not!) advocating for pedo-rights! *phew*

    I AM pointing out that this guy`s arguement is crapola.

    And that: IF gays are "born that way" then so are pedos, nasty & ugly but true! One cannot argue for one and against the other, period. (In the "born that way, not the legal department. Heck we`ve had Gay Marriage in Canada for years now, no skin off my teeth! Ditto for most `gay rights` too, those in NO WAY imply equal pedo rights!)
  40. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:02 am
    @An-egg: Yes, it does apply to the Democrat incumbent`s religion, too, but he (the incumbent) doesn`t run on his religion`s morality, nor does he or his party claim to stand on his religion`s moral superiority as a guiding principle for his politics.
  41. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Then what was your point, 5Cats? I most assuredly did *not* think you were advocating for pedo rights, but it sure as hell sounded like you were colluding pedo and gay rights as of the same argument and moral weight. You continue to do so with your strange `born that way` argument.

    Again, and clearly, the fundamental difference is the fact that gay relationships do no imply or infer a violation of anyone`s rights. They are relationships between two legal, consenting partners. Pedo and other batteries do not take place between two legal or legally-consenting partners. That difference is fundamental and have nothing to do with the other.
  42. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:07 am
    "Leviticus 25, Is ... about servants, not slaves. ... In fact, Jewish servants were treated much like family"

    Let`s read that passage.

    44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

    I see the words slave, buy, property, and inherited. And words have meanings. So, either you are interpreting this dishonestly, in a way that fits your previously established world view, or your thinking the words and true meaning of this passage have been skewed over time. Maybe from some ignorant, or dishonest translator/monk in the distant past. If the former, your interpretations can`t be tru
  43. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:10 am
    Bah..it said I was under 1000 characters. Please allow me to finish my sentence. =)

    ...If the former, your interpretations can`t be trusted. If the latter, then that book can`t be trusted.


  44. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7069 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:23 am
    About the servant issue. The treating decently rules only apply to other jews who have fallen on hard times and given themselves up into servitude.

    Foreigners got no such breaks.

    Seriously, CJ, vast parts of the OT not only demand seperation from `the other` they are a history of exterminating them. They weren`t just opposed to sharing facilities, they weren`t prepared to share the planet. You know that.

    In the NT Jesus is very much only for Jews, athough he may throw a scrap to a gentile if they grovel enough. It`s only with Paul and his marketing campaign that the brand switches direction.
  45. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:41 am
    I`m not going to bite on your obvious trolling for a reaction 5Cats. I`m just happy to see that you are really close to admitting the truth that gays are born that way.
  46. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7069 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:42 am
    I can see 5Cats` logic. If people who are born gay have the right to marry, then the next step is that people who are born psychopaths will have the right to murder at will.
  47. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 10:00 am
    He sure makes it look like his religion is the guiding force of his politics here:

    "I didn`t become a Christian until many years later, when I moved to the South Side of Chicago after college. It happened not because of indoctrination or a sudden revelation, but because I spent month after month working with church folks who simply wanted to help neighbors who were down on their luck no matter what they looked like, or where they came from, or who they prayed to. It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God`s spirit beckon me. It was there that I felt called to a higher purpose -- His purpose."

    Barack Obama
  48. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 11:13 am
    IF gays are "born that way" then so are pedos

    This implication is false considering most pedos (child sexual abusers anyway) commited their acts against someone they were very close to.
  49. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 11:27 am
    `IF gays are "born that way" then so are pedos, nasty & ugly but true! One cannot argue for one and against the other, period.`

    Pedophilia is a psychological disorder, classified by science. Do you think homosexuality is a disorder? Pedophilia always causes harm. Homosexual and heterosexual acts CAN BOTH cause harm, but they are not inherently harmful, because they mostly occur between consenting individuals.
  50. Profile photo of wolfguy423
    wolfguy423 Male 18-29
    172 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    If they want to be married and miserable just like us straight people then who are we to judge them? seriously why would this upset you? I say let them get married and have LEGAL rights just like everyone else in this country.
  51. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm
    "Pedophilia always causes harm."

    Untrue.

    a 15 year old boy having sex with a 21 year old female student teacher.

    The student teacher committed pedophilia. The 15 year old boy is not damaged, he is grateful!
  52. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 2:25 pm
    5Cats
    got a point,
    I guess in a weird monty python way
    statement stands thou born like it etc
    could cover serial killers, rapists, list goes on
    mad and insane but follow the line
  53. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    auburnjunky

    I always dreamed of that when I was 15 !!!!
  54. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3929 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    AJ, the only way your example would be pedophilia is if the 15 year-old hadn`t gone through puberty.
  55. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    IMO people can do whatever they want in their personal life as long as it is between consenting adults. Be gay, be polygamous, be straight, be alone--who cares? And for the people who do: who are you to judge?

    How are we still even arguing about this?! It`s 2012--may as well let `em get married, its the apocalypse in a couple months.
  56. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    AJ:

    "As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty varies)."
  57. Profile photo of Bachi-Atari
    Bachi-Atari Male 18-29
    263 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm

  58. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm
    Also, why are we still discussing the absurd paedophilia comment?
  59. Profile photo of Lucky2u
    Lucky2u Male 18-29
    315 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    that twist was worthy of M.Night
  60. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:20 pm
    In fact, Jewish servants were treated much like family members.

    The same was said about Roman slaves. Roman slaves were part of the familia, from which we get our word `family`.

    It was held up as an ideal and it was sometimes true. The classic example would be Tiro, the slave of Marcus Tullius Cicero. Cicero`s letters to Tiro seem to be written to a brother and his son`s letters to Tiro seem to be written to an uncle.

    The key word is "sometimes". It was traditionally an ideal in Jewish and Roman culture, but that does not mean it happened always or even often.
  61. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:34 pm
    The problem is nothing in the bible supports racial segregation.

    It does if you want it to. Just like with homosexuality.

    The point being made was that *exactly the same arguments* were and are being used. It`s a technique for illuminating prejudice that`s so engrained that it isn`t even seen - you state exactly the same prejudice against a different group, one that is isn`t socially acceptable to have that prejudice against. The point is that it`s exactly the same prejudice. Switching groups just makes it visible.

    When Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, he didn`t qualify it by saying, `Only the neighbors that look like you`.

    When Jesus said homosexuality is wrong...no, wait, he didn`t say anything about homosexuality at all.

    Are you sure you want to bring Jesus` words into this? Because if you do, you have nothing.
  62. Profile photo of knight3000
    knight3000 Male 40-49
    25 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 6:56 pm
    cpjustice.org/stories/storyReader$1178
  63. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:06 pm
    well played sir
  64. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    Why are people still under the impression this is a marriage bill? It`s a city ordnance, they can`t change marriage laws solely in the city. It`s an anti-discrimination bill (Be it age/race/LBGT/religion) to facilitate fair hiring practices, fair rental/real estate practices, fair union membership practices, and fair use of public facilities. That`s it.
  65. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:29 pm
    I restate this because, I mean, does anyone HERE actually think THAT is a bill that shouldn`t pass? I get the "Save our marriage for only us straight people!" You have some weird ownership issues when it comes to marriage due to your religion. Whatever, I`ll let you have that argument even if I feel you`re wrong. But this, THIS? You`re telling me it`s okay for your neighbors son to go to Iraq as a gay man, but when he comes back, he doesn`t deserve a job in your town because he has rainbow flag bumper stickers and one of those high pitched nasally voices queers are so found of? Seriously? Grow up. I`ve done a past a present check, I`ve only actually got along well with about 30% of the people I`ve worked with. That does NOT mean the other 70% shouldn`t have had the job, and it certainly doesn`t mean because I didn`t get along with a gay or fan of jersey shore, no gays or fans of jersey shore should have the job.
  66. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 7:59 pm
    Bah..it said I was under 1000 characters.
    lolz @poonoodle! Welcome to IAB! The character counter is broken, I`ve been cut off in the low 800`s! But we just grin and bear it, no use in complaining...

    Pedophilia is a psychological disorder, classified by science.
    @FP: SO WAS homosexuality, learn your history dude!

    I guess in a weird monty python way
    @ferdyfred: People who live in Winnipeg just LOVE Monty Python. It`s a cultural thing...

    its the apocalypse in a couple months.
    @anaria: YAY! I personally cannot wait for it all to end :-P
    "Also, why are we still discussing the absurd paedophilia comment?"
    - because it`s valid. If one `sexual orientation` is "inborn" then they all are. MY arguement is that none are - fyi.
  67. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 8:08 pm
    When Jesus said homosexuality is wrong...no, wait, he didn`t say anything about homosexuality at all.
    @Angilion: Jesus never said pedophilia is wrong either, eh?
    Just tieing the two arguements together to make @inaria happy :-)

    When I say "all sexual orientation is learned" people get all bothered by it.
    Perhaps "imprinted" is a better term? It isn`t a conscious decision (one definition of learning) but a process that occures naturally within the person.
    Consider baby ducks: they do NOT instinctively follow their mother, ok? They IMPRINT on something soon after they are born, and follow THAT around! Ducklings are famous for imprinting on dogs, cats, pigs, people & etc. YouTube is full of videos...
    So humans IMPRINT their sexual orientation at some point, probably close to puberty, no one knows exactly.
    That better?
  68. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:31 pm
    @5cats and anyone else trying to argue the christian basis on discrimination and who it should apply to. Who cares? Does it really matter I can`t tell you why RuPaul is gay? Is that remotely necessary to determine whether or not RuPaul should be allowed to work, provided he meets the qualifications, at Chik-fil-a? So he dresses like a woman even though he clearly is not one, uniform standards fix that. So he has an annoying high pitched voice, how is that any different than having to work around or order from someone with a Boston accent? So you don`t like his hobbies, don`t inquire.

    I`ve seen your picture on here 5cats. I don`t like ANYTHING about the way you look. I`m a violent person, I don`t deny this. I accept that when I see someone who looks like you, I want to physically hurt you. A large part of the reason I don`t is because it`s against the law.
  69. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 9:38 pm
    Now, take the 70 year old speaker in the longer video, and tell him it`s okay not to hire YOU because of the way you look and his prejudice around that look. That`s exactly what this law seeks to fix. Only, it`s not a law for skinny straight white kids in tight black leather and long hair, it`s for the skinny gay white kids in tight black leather and long hair.

    What if you were actually that skinny white kid in that photo and denied a job just because that business owner figured you`d be annoying to work with?
  70. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 10:38 pm
    FIRST OF ALL @Scuzoid: RuPaul can work at Chic-Fil-A all he/she likes! CFA has NEVER discriminated against hiring gays not even one time! It`s a fact - strawman.

    "I`ve seen your picture on here 5cats."
    You have? I singularly do not recall posting one. Perhaps in the thread where @LillianDulci posted her pic? (I admired @LD`s courage!) idk... If so I was likely hugging a kitty (Calico!) and wearing a shirt with a fish on it. You hate me for how I "look"? Go straight ahead dude, knock yourself out.

    "skinny straight white kids in tight black leather and long hair"
    You Mean HIM?
    I was joking dude! That`s not me, I wish I were still so skinny! lolz! ZOMG!
    I have two cats? He has 2 cats! I wear leather wristbands with chains? He wears leather wristbands with studs...
    LOLZ!
  71. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 10:45 pm
    Disregardless: I understand your point: discrimination = bad.
    BUT!
    No need to lecture me dude: I AM the #1 object of discrimination in the world: mentally ill!
    IF I were to admit my illness, NO ONE would ever hire me, not even to mop floors (nevermind be a ChildCare worker, which I am, at least I was before I got too sick to work).

    So you want to talk discrimination? I`ll go 10 rounds baby! I live with worse than any gay in North America every day.


    Me, in Calgary, about 7 years ago...
    "Hey, I`ll take your picture!"
    Me: "Ok, let me fix my hair..." click!
  72. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 20, 2012 at 10:48 pm



    Hee hee, the Calico + Fish picture, I forgot that I cropped it for internet use.

    About me: In the past 7 years I`ve gotten more grey and a little chubbier...
  73. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 2:47 am
    Chik-fil-a. I brought them up because that seemed to be an effective way at pointing out this bill had nothing to do with marriage. I`m not even sure if this town has any, and I`m certain no one representing the food chain was speaking at that town hall.

    Skinny white kid. I do not believe I articulated what I was trying to say there properly. I speak in hypothetical`s regularly. If you WERE that skinny white kid, as I stated at the end of my posts, or the black woman fifty five years ago in my previous post, what exactly makes you less qualified for the position? I feel there is a good chance a couple people here agree with what was said in the ~hour long video, otherwise I wouldn`t continue to debate this, so as such the line of questioning is directed at them. Fifty+ years ago they would`ve been fine stating that black woman shouldn`t have the job because of how she looked.
  74. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 2:53 am
    Today it`s okay for them to say that skinny white kid or RuPaul shouldn`t have the job because of the way they look. How is it no longer okay to suggest a black woman shouldn`t have that job, but it`s still okay to say skinny white kid and RuPaul shouldn`t get the job? It just doesn`t make any sense.
  75. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36866 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 5:59 am

    @ auburnjunky, in your example the teacher is not a pedophile. She`s an ephibophile. Pedophiles are aroused by prepubescent children, not teens.

    I get what you were saying, just making that clarification.
  76. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 8:52 am
    So humans IMPRINT their sexual orientation at some point, probably close to puberty, no one knows exactly.
    That better?

    It might or might not be a more accurate statement of your hypothesis, but that`s made irrelevant by the fact that it conflicts with the available evidence.
  77. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 9:08 am
    How is it no longer okay to suggest a black woman shouldn`t have that job, but it`s still okay to say skinny white kid and RuPaul shouldn`t get the job? It just doesn`t make any sense.

    Neither society nor politics has any requirement to be rational or internally consistent.

    The "we don`t hire people like that" argument is rational and internally consistent because it`s amoral. Business isn`t about morals. It`s about profit. It`s about whether that person would increase or decrease profits and that`s largely about what prejudices are common amongst your employees, customers and potential customers.

    So, for example, my employer used to forbid men to grow hair longer than collar length because it was unmasculine and would offend some customers, thus decreasing profits. That was up until about 10 years ago.

    What changes are what characteristics are political issues and thus deemed worthy of forcing employers to take a reducti
  78. Profile photo of Byfield
    Byfield Male 18-29
    464 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm
    Good point, took too long
  79. Profile photo of TheiaRenown
    TheiaRenown Female 18-29
    426 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 3:56 pm
    Love it!
  80. Profile photo of knight3000
    knight3000 Male 40-49
    25 posts
    October 21, 2012 at 5:56 pm
    How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively? Furthermore, does legality establish morality? Slavery was legal; apartheid is legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist purges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of moral people -- Walter E. Williams
  81. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 3:00 am
    Cats
    There was a Canadian person who had his penis destroyed as an infant during a circumcision experiment with a laser scalpel.

    The parents followed the doctors` recommendation of sexual reassignment surgery along with other treatment.

    Raised as a female, some time around age 13 or 14, this person noticed: "Hey... I REALLY like girls..."
    So the parents decided to explain what happened.

    He tried living one way, then another, finally marrying a female.
    Last I heard, in 2006, he committed suicide.

    Most people are born into a gender identity, some people decide gender identity. Within each of those, some people decide orientation, most are drawn one way or another and gender identity can not be exclusively associated to orientation.

    I have said elsewhere, I KNEW I liked females at age 4 and even had specific taste.
    Looking at other aspects of my life, trying to fit myself into a tight little box of psychological develo
  82. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 3:03 am
    Looking at other aspects of my life, trying to fit myself into a tight little box of psychological development has been a non-fit and I suspect others are in the same boat.
  83. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33142 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 4:24 am
    There was a Canadian person who had his penis destroyed as an infant...
    @CodeJockey: yes, I am VERY familiar witht taht case!
    -He was a twin, during the birthing process the doctor pulled with those tong-things and destroyed his genetalia.
    -Doctors re-assigned him to be female, using the brother as a `control group` they studied his developement intensely.
    -they gave him hormones and stuff as a child = not good for you.
    -he was messed up and very unhappy his whole life, the the "scientists" claimed a huge victory for gender research in the 70s. NOW it`s viewed as a case lesson in what NOT to do!

    He was re-assigned as a male, did get married & raised 3 kids. His brother also suicided iirc...

    The point is: gender is NOT changeable. But that has almost nothing to do with sexual orientation, eh?
  84. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 5:06 am
    "The point is: gender is NOT changeable. But that has almost nothing to do with sexual orientation, eh?"
    No, they cannot be perfectly correlated.
    Even our concepts of "absolutely straight" and "completely gay" are just that, concepts.

    There are analog balance, not discrete selection. Most people are mostly toward one way or the other but, some people fall in the middle physically, sexually and in terms of personal identity.
  85. Profile photo of sicker
    sicker Female 30-39
    325 posts
    October 22, 2012 at 6:07 am
    Church AND state. Not CHURSTATE. Separate entities. That`s the end of the argument, right there. When I see religious leaders who recognize that, it warms my little homo heart.

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