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Date: 10/27/12 10:20 AM

109 Responses to Drone Strike Kills A 16-Year Old American Citizen

  1. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 26, 2012 at 11:57 am
    Link: Drone Strike Kills A 16-Year Old American Citizen - White House responds with `He should have a far more responsible father.`
  2. Profile photo of bluntman1138
    bluntman1138 Male 30-39
    28 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:28 am
    Just how is this exactly the "Whitehouse saying" It is one man giving his opinion.

    Where was this "secret kill list" guy when Bush was in office? Oh that`s right, he hadn`t graduated High School yet.
  3. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:28 am
    Sounds about right to me
  4. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:31 am
    We weren`t targeting the 16 year old you twat. His treasonous father was the target.
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36835 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Agreed. Any parent who takes their kid to a war zone is an non-nice individual. Feel sorry for the kid, but the father put him in harms way.

    If it`s a "secret" kill list how does he know about it?
  6. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:33 am
    `Just how is this exactly the "Whitehouse saying" It is one man giving his opinion.`

    He`s the Whitehouse`s top spokesperson.
  7. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:34 am
    `We weren`t targeting the 16 year old you twat. His treasonous father was the target.`

    @Markust: You and I agree on a lot of things, but here we disagree. This is the problem with the drone strikes. Innocent people are killed all the time in these targeted strikes. It`s immoral.
  8. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1127 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:35 am
    Those reporters were just looking for a reason to burn that guy and the obama administration.. Reporters like that tend to ignore any extenuating circumstances and focus on the headline more so than actual facts.
  9. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:36 am
    It`s funny to me the people who should be fine with the secret kill list for Al Qaida operatives should be the conservatives. They were fine with pretty much everything Bush did against terror. Yet they spout this fake outrage. The question is are they being dishonest now or were they being dishonest during the Bush years? One of the reactions is a lie - they can`t be both.
  10. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:40 am
    `It`s funny to me the people who should be fine with the secret kill list for Al Qaida operatives should be the conservatives. They were fine with pretty much everything Bush did against terror. Yet they spout this fake outrage. The question is are they being dishonest now or were they being dishonest during the Bush years? One of the reactions is a lie - they can`t be both.`

    Conservatives ARE okay with the secret kill list. Their problem was not that the kill list exists, it was that the information was leaked.

    You know I defend Obama from the conservatives here all the time, but I find his drone program to be reprehensible. When I voted for him I didn`t expect to get this much of Bush`s foreign policy. That`s why I submitted this video.
  11. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:40 am
    Skip to 2:40 if you want to hear the relevant quote. Remember, Americans: this is what your political leaders really think about each of your so-called "Constitutional Rights". Before you decide to vote for one of the `big two` parties this November, maybe do some research on your own and consider some of the other candidates this time around? Your chosen candidate may not win. But you could do a lot worse than perpetuate the present system that sees criminals of both political flavours commit war crimes like these against your fellow-citizens, some of whom have been Juveniles.
  12. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:43 am
    "You and I agree on a lot of things, but here we disagree. This is the problem with the drone strikes. Innocent people are killed all the time in these targeted strikes. It`s immoral."

    Actually I am not in favor of the drones. Sure it takes out Al Qaida leaders but it makes us look worse by killing innocent bystanders which builds more resentment towards America. Where I also think we went wrong was with Guantanamo Bay. That horrible place gave the people who were let free ammunition and stories about how horrible the Americans are. But that is America. We punish we don`t rehabilitate.
  13. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:45 am
    `Actually I am not in favor of the drones`

    Ok, glad to hear that.
  14. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:47 am
    This kids aren`t outraged conservatives, they are Liberals who are trying to hold our quite conservative president to liberal ideals. This is the problem with the left. They post poo like this during a time that would influence a vote for a candidate that has even scarier policy ideas.
  15. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:50 am
    They post poo like this during a time that would influence a vote for a candidate that has even scarier policy ideas.

    Imagine. Publicising things that people have said that would cause right-thinking people not to vote for them again. The very idea! It`s almost as if they care about the truth or something!
  16. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:55 am
    I am not talking about "right-thinking" people, their votes are already solidified. This causes liberals to throw away a vote on a third party candidate who has no chance to win and effectually casts a vote for Romney whom they would prefer even less than Obama. Not a hard concept.
  17. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 10:58 am
    Legalize weed.
  18. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:03 am
    I`m with Gerry on this one, the death is unfortunate/shouldn`t have happened, but it`s the Duty of a parent to protect the best interests of his/her child. and you`re not doing that by choosing that lifestyle.
  19. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:04 am
    "This kids aren`t outraged conservatives, they are Liberals who are trying to hold our quite conservative president to liberal ideals. This is the problem with the left. They post poo like this during a time that would influence a vote for a candidate that has even scarier policy ideas."

    Actually, the problem is those who fall for the influence.
  20. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:06 am
    @MacGuffin, wait you`re talking about sending a signal to political parties that they need to clean up their act or in the future another party might win? radical idea sister... radical ...
  21. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:07 am
    "We weren`t targeting the 16 year old you twat. His treasonous father was the target."

    His father was killed 2 weeks earlier. He was over there trying to find where his father was because he hadn`t heard from him. He and his cousin were killed and HE was the target, not his dead father. Even if it was an accident, they hatred for America is growing over there because of how many innocent people we`re murdering just to possibly kill someone we`re actually targeting. We`re the terrorists, not them.
  22. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:07 am
    `I`m with Gerry on this one, the death is unfortunate/shouldn`t have happened, but it`s the Duty of a parent to protect the best interests of his/her child. and you`re not doing that by choosing that lifestyle.`

    I don`t disagree that the parent has responsibility, but if we`re going to run a drone strike program we should be able to do it without these sorts of casualties.

    Besides the immorality of killing innocent civilians, there is a logical problem with this program. Taking out terrorists in such a manner accomplishes little more than the short term goal. In many ways, it increases the problem, because the families of those affected by it are more likely to resent us and possibly even join the ranks of terrorist groups themselves.
  23. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:08 am
    "I am not talking about "right-thinking" people, their votes are already solidified. This causes liberals to throw away a vote on a third party candidate who has no chance to win and effectually casts a vote for Romney whom they would prefer even less than Obama. Not a hard concept."

    thanks to the electoral college, only "swing state` voters would be "throwing their vote away". I live in Florida, which could go either way, so I will vote for Obama, but if you live in say, california, which is guaranteed to President Obama, you can feel free to vote for a third party candidate. it won`t change anything.
  24. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:08 am
    I`m with Gerry on this one, the death is unfortunate/shouldn`t have happened, but it`s the Duty of a parent to protect the best interests of his/her child. and you`re not doing that by choosing that lifestyle.

    I think that`s pretty idiotic. By the standard you suggest, every child of every criminal in America should fear getting `justifiably` shot when the police come to arrest their mother/father.

    The responsibility for ensuring the safety of innocent parties has to ultimately reside with the person taking the action that causes those people to be killed. In this case, that`s the politicians ordering illegal drone strikes against US citizens, and those carrying out their orders.
  25. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:09 am
    `This is the problem with the left. They post poo like this during a time that would influence a vote for a candidate that has even scarier policy ideas.`

    Actually, I would say this makes those of us on the Left more responsible than those on the Right, who tend to circle their wagons around their candidate more, regardless of what they do.
  26. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:09 am
    "This causes liberals to throw away a vote on a third party candidate who has no chance to win and effectually casts a vote for Romney whom they would prefer even less than Obama. Not a hard concept."

    I think you are going to find more conservatives voting third party this time around. There are many hard core Christians who, when it gets down to it, will not be able to vote for a Mormon. They think they will be able to right up to getting into the both. But when push comes to shove some will not be able to.
  27. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:10 am
    "I`m with Gerry on this one, the death is unfortunate/shouldn`t have happened, but it`s the Duty of a parent to protect the best interests of his/her child. and you`re not doing that by choosing that lifestyle."

    My dad and I are pretty much complete opposites. If he decided to go and do something illegal, should I get punished for it? I didn`t choose to have him for a father and we`re nothing alike. This kid was in no way in control of his father`s actions so why should he be murdered as a result?
  28. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:14 am
    I am not talking about "right-thinking" people, their votes are already solidified. This causes liberals to throw away a vote on a third party candidate who has no chance to win and effectually casts a vote for Romney whom they would prefer even less than Obama. Not a hard concept.

    I`m not an American citizen, but I am a liberal individual that`s concerned about human rights. I`ll tell you right now that I`d prefer anyone, even Romney, to seeing a lying weasel like Obama in the White House for another four years.

    It`ll only be when voters in countries like the UK and the US stop tolerating politicians of all political flavours lying to them that things will finally change. Voting for someone merely because you don`t like someone else is asinine. All the people that voted for Obama because he wasn`t George Bush and naively thought they were voting against all he stood for only to find many of Bush`s policies perpetuated can attest to that.
  • Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:16 am
    "I`ll tell you right now that I`d prefer anyone, even Romney, to seeing a lying weasel like Obama in the White House for another four years. "

    Extremely easy for someone who won`t have to live with the moron to say. People`s lives are literally at stake due to the programs Romney plans to cut funding to, eliminate, or severely alter. I`m not happy with Obama but the alternative is much worse.
  • Profile photo of klaxor
    klaxor Male 18-29
    646 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:21 am
    Well that was a loaded caption title
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:24 am
    Extremely easy for someone who won`t have to live with the moron to say. People`s lives are literally at stake due to the programs Romney plans to cut funding to, eliminate, or severely alter. I`m not happy with Obama but the alternative is much worse.

    Excuse me, Lillian, but as a citizen of the world, and specifically of a country that`s friendly with your nation, and as a resident of a city that has a significant Muslim/Pakistani Diaspora community, I can assure you that I`ve been "living with" the blowback and consequences of the ill-advised policies of your political leaders of both flavours for much of the past twelve years. Please do not vote for any of the Big Two again this time around. The world is counting on you.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:25 am
    `I am a liberal individual that`s concerned about human rights. I`ll tell you right now that I`d prefer anyone, even Romney, to seeing a lying weasel like Obama in the White House for another four years.`

    I submitted this video and even I disagree with you. As bad as Obama has been on this, Romney would be much worse.

    I may vote for Jill Stein (Green party) because of this issue, but that`s largely because I don`t have to worry about Romney winning my state.
  • Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:31 am
    "Actually, I would say this makes those of us on the Left more responsible than those on the Right"

    I agree, but when it comes to getting anything done, it is like herding cats. Compare the Tea Party and the Occupy movement. The Occupy movement got bogged down and stalled trying to give every opinion its fair shake. Whereas the Tea Partiers, while incoherent and raving mad were incoherent and raving mad together.
  • Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:33 am
    "Please do not vote for any of the Big Two again this time around."

    And then Romney wins! And people don`t think "hey, people don`t like either candidate, maybe we should change something". People think "everyone much love Romney!" and nothing changes.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:33 am
    An AMERICAN was killed no NO NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.

    Republicans invade Iraq for no justifiable reason and the result is over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilian deaths. That`s perfectly reasonable. BUT AN AMERICAN WAS KILLED!!!!!! God forbid.

    I`m happy I was born an American. There is no other country I`d rather live in, and unlike most of the people that say that I actually HAVE lived in other countries. However I am constantly embarrassed by my country`s actions and the behavior of its citizens.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:34 am
    I may vote for Jill Stein (Green party) because of this issue, but that`s largely because I don`t have to worry about Romney winning my state.

    So, to summarise, FP: if you lived in a swing state you`d still vote for Obama just because he`s not Romney? I guess in that case that you can`t care about the issue of Obama`s supporting drone strikes that kill Juveniles who are innocent US Citizens as much as you claim to. I wonder of Sophie Scholl would have voted for the Nazi party to keep the Communists out?
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:40 am
    And then Romney wins! And people don`t think "hey, people don`t like either candidate, maybe we should change something".

    Your choice is simple. Four more years of someone you don`t agree with. Or an eternal line of politicians of both political flavours from here on until the end of time who will know that they can lie to the electorate and get away with it.

    The worst that`ll happen if Romney wins as a result of dissatisfied Obama supporters not voting for him again is that the Democrats will have a serious think about whether they can get away with lying to the US public and back-tracking on key human rights policies.

    Don`t focus too much on the next four years: I can tell you right now they`re going to suck whomever gets in. Focus on teaching the person that`s in power right now that lying to you is not an option. Only if you do that, will you get better candidates next time around.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:43 am
    `if you lived in a swing state you`d still vote for Obama just because he`s not Romney? I guess in that case that you can`t care about the issue of Obama`s supporting drone strikes that kill Juveniles who are innocent US Citizens as much as you claim to. I wonder of Sophie Scholl would have voted for the Nazi party to keep the Communists out?`

    I don`t know what I would do if I lived in a swing state. That`s a hypothetical situation.

    Your response is hyperbolic, particularly the Nazi Germany part. There are many more complexities here than you can possibly understand, as you`re not an American.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:44 am
    @LillianDulci

    No he shouldn`t, i said it shouldn`t have happend.
    i am pointing out though that parents should take responsibility for their children, becuase unfortunatly we live in a drated up world, your job as parent is to minimise the risk your child is exposed to and that he learns how to survive in this world, in this case i think daddy failed that duty.

    also my only info on this subject is from this clip so pardon me for not knowing all the details
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:47 am
    I don`t know what I would do if I lived in a swing state. That`s a hypothetical situation.

    Your response is hyperbolic, particularly the Nazi Germany part. There are many more complexities here than you can possibly understand, as you`re not an American.

    My response isn`t intended to be hyperbolic. It`s intended to state in plain terms what I perceive as the main problem with your thinking. I believe people should either support what someone stands for, or not. Voting for them even though you claim not to agree with them merely because you don`t like someone else even more and don`t want them to get into power is asinine.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:50 am
    "And people don`t think "hey, people don`t like either candidate, maybe we should change something".

    In the netherlands the major parties have been losing votes to alternative parties and the message has come across. politicians need votes, they will work to get them. it`s the only democratic power you have, so use it wisely.
  • Profile photo of Django
    Django Male 30-39
    230 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:53 am
    Plenty of blame to go around for this tragedy. Bad things happen everyday and it makes us feel better if we can blame someone. Unfortunately, it`s usually so much more complicated. On another note, I find this form of guerilla journalism annoyingly masturbatory. No seasoned politician is going to discuss classified information with a journalist. There are better, more productive methods of getting good, useable information.
  • Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:54 am
    "Your choice is simple. Four more years of someone you don`t agree with. Or an eternal line of politicians..."
    And then 4 more years of someone I don`t like. Then 4 more years of someone I don`t like. And then 4 more years of someone I don`t like. etc. Nothing`s going to change, so I`d rather vote for the one who`s gonna do the least harm. And that`s Obama.

    "The worst that`ll happen if Romney wins as a result of dissatisfied Obama supporters not voting for him again is that the Democrats..."
    Nope, they`ll think everyone loves Romney and that`s why he won. The worst that will happen is planned parenthood will be defunded so less cancer screenings, the rich will have lower taxes and the deficit will rise, social security will be altered/eliminated, "Obamacare" will be removed and tons of people will go back to not having coverage...
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:55 am
    `Voting for them even though you claim not to agree with them merely because you don`t like someone else even more and don`t want them to get into power is asinine.`

    Here`s the problem though. I want my fellow citizens to have access to decent health insurance. I want to avoid an unnecessary war with Iran. I don`t want to hurt the poor just because the rich don`t want to pay taxes that are 3% higher. I don`t want to see gay people discriminated against, and I don`t want women to have to go to Mexico to get abortions.

    All of those things are in jeopardy if Romney becomes president. Our system is rigged, for sure. But unfortunately, change comes slowly and we only have a representative democracy. 62% of Americans support the drone strikes. If we want them to end, we have to convince our fellow citizens to oppose them.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:56 am
    "I think that`s pretty idiotic. By the standard you suggest, every child of every criminal in America should fear getting `justifiably` shot when the police come to arrest their mother/father."

    Unfortunatly that is the way it works sweety, if i deal drugs the odds of something bad happening to me and those around me do increase drasticaly, i`m not saying it`s fair or justifiable, but it is a fact of live. I don`t think the lives that were taken by said daddy were justified either. do you see a patern emerging here? (poo i need to go bed, my "skills" at spelling are getting even worse.)
  • Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 11:57 am
    "In the netherlands the major parties have been losing votes to alternative parties and the message has come across. politicians need votes, they will work to get them. it`s the only democratic power you have, so use it wisely."

    Due to how our system is set up, with the electoral college, it`s winner takes all per state. Individual votes don`t matter in the least, especially in non-swing states. I know enough about the politicians and media here to know that if Romney wins, they`re not going to care that some democrats voted for a 3rd party candidate. They`re gonna say how the American people liked Romney better than Obama because we agree with Romney`s positions, even if that`s not even close to true.
  • Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    "Republicans invade Iraq for no justifiable reason and the result is over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilian deaths. That`s perfectly reasonable. BUT AN AMERICAN WAS KILLED!!!!!! God forbid."

    The main difference it makes is for uneducated citizens, seeing an Iraqi civilian killed is considered a casulty of war. Seeing an American citizen killed makes it seem like our government is against us, too. That we could go overseas and be targetted and killed by our government. Now, I feel just as horrible about anyone dying no matter where they`re from, and I really hate our government for terrorizing other countries. But stuff like this happening is more likely to rile up everyone else and make them realize why drone strikes are atrocious.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:02 pm
    I have to say, it`s refreshing to hear so many of my fellow progressives here are on the same page as me with this issue. I wouldn`t expect any of our friends on the Right to criticize their guy, even though he`s been all over the map on the issues they care about.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    Here`s the problem though. I want my fellow citizens to have access to decent health insurance...

    If you feel that strongly about all of these things, and you honestly believe that Obama can provide them, then by all means vote for him. Just don`t kid yourself that you`re against what he stands for.

    ...
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Personally, I think you`ll be entrenched in a third insane Middle Eastern War with Iran by no later than 12-18 months into the next Presidential term, whomever gets into office. And the health insurance policies you aspire to will only be affordable for the next four years because of the never-ending series of wars your country is getting itself embroiled in. At some point some other country whom you dislike even more than either Romney or Obama, perhaps Russia or more likely China, will decide that you`re weak enough as a nation and will make their move to unseat you as the world`s only Superpower. Probably not with aircraft carriers or shock troops, but simply by calling in the loans they own to countries that once supported you. And all because you could only focus on the next four years, rather than demanding a wiser set of political alternatives to vote for.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    @lillianDulci, yeah that system could do with an overhaul to become more democratic. if i remember corectly (sorry about the spelling i do have bad case of the flu) bush won even though he had less votes? that makes no sense to me. as for politicians claiming they were right and or better, that`s the nature of politicians they pull the same crap over here even if they lost a significant portion of their voters. the policies do tend to "adjust" after such an election though.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    Anyway as much as i am loving this discussion i need to go to bed now. before i become even more incoherent.

    Have fun,
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:11 pm
    `Personally, I think you`ll be entrenched in a third insane Middle Eastern War with Iran by no later than 12-18 months into the next Presidential term, whomever gets into office.`

    I`d say that`s possible, but mainly because Israel seems to want it. Obama at least tries to avoid this. Romney would rather let Israel dictate our policy there.

    It`s not that I disagree with your premise. To borrow a phrase, what you`re arguing is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    Obama is the only person in the world to get a Nobel Peace Prize that has a `Kill List`.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:18 pm
    what you`re arguing is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Now who`s being hyperbolic? :) I`ve explained why I think that voting only for candidates that you actually agree with on fundamental principles is better for your country in the long run. That`s not "cutting off your nose to spite your face". That`s cutting off your breast before the cancer spreads, which will cost you your life rather than merely your beauty.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    @CrakrJak

    I hope that the irony of having a peace price named after the guy who invented dynamite doesnt escape you?
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Obama is the only person in the world to get a Nobel Peace Prize that has a `Kill List`. "

    Dumbest Peace prize in history. Obama has done a lot of good things in my mind, creating Peace isn`t one of them.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    I hope that the irony of having a peace price named after the guy who invented dynamite doesnt escape you?

    It`s not an irony at all. Alfred Nobel`s discovery of dynamite, and his dismay at the obituary that was printed in error when premature news of his death was published in a newspaper because of the uses that dynamite had been put to, were instrumental in both his ability and motivation to set up the prize. The profits from dynamite sales paid for the Prize to be set up. Nobel`s remorse about his invention`s use in war (he`d intended it to be an aid for miners) was what motivated him.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    Obama is the only person in the world to get a Nobel Peace Prize that has a `Kill List`.

    You`re forgetting Henry Kissinger.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    If you think Obama is bad, Romney is itching to get us into multiple wars. This is him in the third Presidential debate, "We - since FDR we had the - we`ve always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now we`re changing to one conflict." That point raised a huge red flag in me when I was watching the debate. I was surprised the media didn`t pick up on it. Pushing the word "peace" twelve time was just a slight of hand to his true intentions. He would be no different than Bush - he would be a war President. This man must not become President.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    markust: Romney is itching to get us into multiple wars.

    Not true at all sir. Or did you miss that part of the third debate?
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm
    "Not true at all sir. Or did you miss that part of the third debate?"

    Romney is a habitual liar. The statement I posted shows his true intentions.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    `Not true at all sir. Or did you miss that part of the third debate?`

    How about before he changed his position? Earlier this month he said the 2014 withdrawal from Afghanistan was an "enormous mistake." In the debate, he said "We`ll make sure we bring our troops out by the end of 2014....We`re going to be able to make that transition by the end of 2014. So our troops will come home at that point."
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    If you think this $2 Trillion increase in military spending (that Romney has admitted he wants) is just to buy more ships and equipment you are delusional. It is to allow us to get into multiple wars.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    markust: So Clinton was a warmonger too then? Being prepared is not warmongering, it`s just sound policy.
  • Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:06 pm
    He would be no different than Bush

    and thats a bad thing how exactly?
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:09 pm
    "So Clinton was a warmonger too then? Being prepared is not warmongering, it`s just sound policy."

    What are you talking about? Wars and military spending went down during the Clinton years. Sometimes I think you live in Bizarro world where everything is backwards.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    (He would be no different than Bush) "and thats a bad thing how exactly?"

    The 4,486 Americans who died in Iraq for starters.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:14 pm
    darkmagic14n

    "He would be no different than Bush
    and thats a bad thing how exactly?"

    Holy S.hit. Please for the love of God tell me you are joking. I only get 1,000 characters so I can`t actually start to answer that if you are dumb enough to be asking it for real.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    markust: Guess I need to remind you that Clinton`s decision to send cruise missiles to kill Bin Laden, that failed, got Osama so pissed off that he planned the 9/11 attacks against us.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    Markust

    "Sometimes I think you live in Bizarro world where everything is backwards."

    It is the bubble. The only way the Republican party can get elected today is if talk radio, conservative blogs, and FOX News punditry repeat lies and spin enough times that people like Crakr recite it as fact.

    Because if you sit down open mindedly with all the data and only look at the facts NOBODY would vote republican.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:18 pm
    `Guess I need to remind you that Clinton`s decision to send cruise missiles to kill Bin Laden, that failed, got Osama so pissed off that he planned the 9/11 attacks against us.`

    Hahahahaha! That`s a good one. I needed a laugh.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    HG: Way to be a condescending d|ck there HG, In a way you`re calling all Republicans retarded. Because "NOBODY" could "sit down open mindedly with all the data and only look at the facts" and have a different conclusion than yours, right?

    Please go find your bridge and stay under it.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    "Guess I need to remind you that Clinton`s decision to send cruise missiles to kill Bin Laden, that failed, got Osama so pissed off that he planned the 9/11 attacks against us."

    Going 180 degrees from your original point again. How come that is the only prize we ever get in our CrakrJak.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    FoolsPrussia: After the 9/11 attacks Osama released a tape praising the attack and gave the reason for the 9/11 attack as Clinton`s cruise missiles that tried to kill him.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    CrkrJak

    "Because "NOBODY" could "sit down open mindedly with all the data and only look at the facts"

    Yes. Exactly. Much in the same way I can give you a list full of improved economic indicators based solely on factual data and you call it "spam". You don`t look at it open minded at all. If you did it would destroy your "Obama ruined the economy" narrative that you like repeating ad nausea without ever backing it up.

    Once again, if someone calls a dumb person dumb that doesn`t make them a troll. You have to understand dumb people don`t know they are dumb. Other people have to explain it to them.
  • Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    `After the 9/11 attacks Osama released a tape praising the attack and gave the reason for the 9/11 attack as Clinton`s cruise missiles that tried to kill him.`

    Actually, what I`m laughing about is the idea that you, of all people, would assert something like this. If you are willing to hold Clinton responsible for the 9/11 attacks because he tried to kill Bin Laden, shouldn`t you also oppose the drone strikes on the grounds that they create new terrorists, which is what many of us on the left assert?

    I have never heard you say anything in opposition to the drone strikes. If you`re going to attack Clinton on those grounds, be consistent and oppose the same actions.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    "After the 9/11 attacks Osama released a tape praising the attack and gave the reason for the 9/11 attack as Clinton`s cruise missiles that tried to kill him."

    In 1999 we had Bin Laden clearly in our sites. Clinton wouldn`t authorize the strike against his convoy. But why let facts get in the way.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:38 pm
    CrakrJak

    "After the 9/11 attacks Osama released a tape praising the attack and gave the reason for the 9/11 attack as Clinton`s cruise missiles that tried to kill him. "

    Please post a link to back up that statement.

    I just watched the video Bin Laden released immediately after. He says nothing of any specific event. He says "these strikes are but a reaction to what has happened in our lands - in palestine and in Iraq and in other places."

    The wikipedia article "Motives for the September 11 attacks" says nothing of the cruise missiles. It says: "The motivations identified for the attacks include the support of Israel by the United States, presence of the U.S. military in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. enforcement of sanctions against Iraq."

    I`m not saying you are wrong, because he released several videos. Just please provide proof to your statement.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:38 pm
    That`s odd CJ. Clinton`s name doesn`t come up once in the Wikopedia entry for Motives for the September 11 attacks.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    HG: So you`re saying that because people don`t think the way you do makes them dumb? Seriously? You`re going with that condescending narcissistic crap?

    And you wonder why Obama is the most divisive and polarizing president we`ve ever had. It`s because people like you think your superior to everyone else and know what`s best for them and them vote for this Narcissist in Chief.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said Sunday she believes that Osama bin Laden decided to launch deadly terrorist strikes on U.S. territory in direct response to President Clinton`s failed missile strikes on bin Laden`s Afghanistan headquarters in 1998.

    "I think once we struck bin Laden in `98, the training camps, the open-source information, in other words, the people writing books, and one of them being Yosef Bodansky, points out in his book that that was a turning point for bin Laden," Sen. Feinstein told CNN`s "Late Edition."

    "That`s when he decided he was going to go after the United States. Now, I happen to believe that`s correct," she contended.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 1:53 pm
    markust: Clinton had opportunities to kill Bin Laden several times, but it was only when the Monica Lewinsky affair came up did Bill come up with his `Wag the dog` cruise missile attack in an attempt to distract the public.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Sen. Dianne Feinstein"

    NO NO NO NO. That is NOT what you said. You said:

    "Osama released a tape praising the attack and gave the reason for the 9/11 attack as Clinton`s cruise missiles that tried to kill him."

    So give a link to the video where Osama says that or admit you were mistaken.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6904 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    CrakrJak

    "So you`re saying that because people don`t think the way you do makes them dumb? Seriously?"

    No. Not at all. My dad is a republican. He`s the smartest person I`ve ever met and I go to a lot of MENSA meetings. I have a great amount of respect for him. I have a great amount of respect for a lot of republicans. I think you are dumb because when I post facts you call it spam. You say things that are completely wrong and then never admit it. You repeat talking points and spin like it is factual. That is why. Not because you are a republican.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    HG: Yes, Osama Bin Laden did release tapes after 9/11. At first he said he had nothing to do with it, Later he said he planned it. He gave many reasons for 9/11, most of them he blamed on us, but he also blamed the Saudis and others. In one of those tapes he mentions the cruise missile attacks in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998 as motivating factors as well.

    Alas, I can`t find video of these tapes, only references to them.

    Btw, Osama also mentioned the cruise missile attacks after the USS Cole bombing, before 9/11.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3922 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    "Alas, I can`t find video of these tapes, only references to them."

    You seam to repeat a lot of references with hardly any effort to make sure they are true or not. This includes your reference to Sen. Dianne Feinstein.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 3:54 pm
    Being prepared is not warmongering, it`s just sound policy.

    Constantly harassing a nation for some alleged progam ISN`T sound policy. Niether is bashing China for producing cheap goods, nor hypocritically for manipulating currency.
  • Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3286 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 8:28 pm
    That`s flucked! Putting the blame on his father. The 16 yo should have been more bootstrappy. What`s all this shift of blame. That`s what we are saying here.
  • Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3431 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 9:00 pm
    Right, well when I was 16 I hung out with a group of folks that did some stupid crap, and when I got caught with them, regardless of whether I was actually breaking some law myself, I was guilty by association.

    As far as the idea that it was "illegal", war is a Mother drater. The idea of a "Legal" war is naive and retarded.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 9:27 pm
    "Nobel`s remorse about his invention`s use in war"

    Congratulations, you understand irony.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 27, 2012 at 9:37 pm
    @CrakrJak

    Do you really think that somebody with a deepseated hatred of the US needs an excuse to strike at america? or could it be that he was trying to justify his actions in such a manner that he could get "sympathy" and recruit more people to follow his desired course of action?
  • Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 12:52 am
    I have made it to my ripe old age by living with a simple rule: Whenever possible,don`t put yourself in harm`s way.
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 5:37 am
    "Congratulations, you understand irony."



    Watch those passive aggressive anger issues, big guy. Being angry isn`t a good way to persuade, remember?

    I do understand irony, as well as sarcasm. But it looks like you don`t. Perhaps this will help?
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 6:59 am
    markust: The tapes are old, Bin Laden is dead, fewer and fewer people even care about why we were attacked.

    Suffice to say there were books written about it and Sen. Dianne Feinstein believed it was the truth.

    Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America (ISBN 0-7615-1968-8) was a New York Times Bestseller by Yossef Bodansky, the former Director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 7:10 am
    MrOrange: It certainly doesn`t help to give a terrorist any excuses, they help rally others to their cause, gives them a rallying cry.

    Cajun: Constantly harassing a nation for some alleged progam ISN`T sound policy.

    Iran should be harassed and sanctioned at every turn, what they are doing, trying to make nuclear weapons, is threatening the world with most dangerous power on this planet. If you don`t think that should be stopped in it`s tracks, perhaps you need some mental counseling.
  • Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 7:35 am
    MacGuffin you`ve got some pretty good posts. You`re right that silly nation is going down.

    Sadly some people who live there can`t see it as it is.
  • Profile photo of fancythat
    fancythat Male 30-39
    1950 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 7:48 am
    Irritating, antagonizing questions from wannabe interviewers are just that. Irritating. If I were the person being interviewed, I would have black balled them and just ignored any follow up questions.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 8:28 am
    Iran should be harassed and sanctioned at every turn, what they are doing, trying to make nuclear weapons, is threatening the world with most dangerous power on this planet.

    Yet no one can seem to agree on if or even when they`ll get such weapons. Even they do we can contain them like we did the Soviet Union for 50 years.

    If you don`t think that should be stopped in it`s tracks, perhaps you need some mental counseling.

    Funny, I`d say the same thing for someone who believes that a nuclear nation is a belligerent one by default.
  • Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 9:41 am
    100% agree. There shouldn`t be a kill list and there should be no drone strikes that could harm non-combatants.
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 10:57 am
    @MacGuffin I LOVE Ed Byrne!

    As for passive agressive? sweety i`ve got my tonque so far up my cheek i`m french kissing myself.

    And yeah i find it highly ironic that people try and do things to improve life for others and it backfires on them, Nobel being one of them.

    My underlying statement is that sometimes even the best intentions have negative concequences.
    The question is should you judge a person by the results or by the intentions?
  • Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 11:07 am
    MrOrange: It certainly doesn`t help to give a terrorist any excuses, they help rally others to their cause, gives them a rallying cry.

    I`m sorry to say this CrakrJak, but considering America`s foreign policies since WWII, i`d say plenty of rallying cries were offerd.

    Looking at afghanistan and the CIA`s involvement i don`t think it`s fair to point the finger at Clinton, he had to deal with a situation that was already there, as your next presidents will as well. The question is what would be the best approach? given your previous statement i`d assume your not in favour of war and single target strikes?
  • Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 11:10 am
    MacGuffin you`ve got some pretty good posts. You`re right that silly nation is going down.

    Sadly some people who live there can`t see it as it is.

    Thanks. Here`s hoping they turn it around. They only need to look at the UK to see where their present course will take them fifty years down the line from now.
  • Profile photo of chicagojay
    chicagojay Male 40-49
    2018 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    This would never happen if Obama was president. All GWBs fault!!
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 28, 2012 at 11:42 pm
    MrOrange ..Clinton, he had to deal with a situation that was already there..

    Yes, a inconvenient cum stained blue dress needed to have attention distracted away from it.
  • Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3511 posts
    October 29, 2012 at 12:10 am
    A kill list eh? Well, I guess prefer a well organised war over an unorganized one, playing card idea was old anyway. It`s sad about the 16 year old, not his fault. Still I prefer precision bombing rather than a surge of troops, or using PMC`S. War is poo, but poo happens and will continue to happen.

    @Cajun247 Even they do we can contain them like we did the Soviet Union for 50 years.

    Do you mean the cold war? Or did you mean contain some Russian nukes for less than 21 years? Or are you just being sarcastic? Because I don`t see how that statement works in any way you can fashion it.
  • Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    October 29, 2012 at 8:29 am
    Ya his father a verified Al Qaeda member brought him there to teach him peace and love.......

  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 29, 2012 at 9:49 am
    Do you mean the cold war?

    Now that you mention it, I was referring to the Cold War.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    October 29, 2012 at 9:49 am
    Well, I guess prefer a well organised war over an unorganized one

    So let me get this straight, you`re content with the President consistently ass-fu<king the rule of law just to erase some unverified baddies? How frightening really.

    Or did you mean contain some Russian nukes for less than 21 years?

    They only had nukes for 21 years? Groovy. Good on us for containing the Soviets.
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