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Date: 09/03/12 11:10 AM

107 Responses to Why Do You Believe What You Believe?

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:54 am
    Link: Why Do You Believe What You Believe? - Just a few questions for the faithful followers, no matter what faith they follow.
  2. Profile photo of palmer050
    palmer050 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 11:30 am
    Sweet their starting to turn religions off, Party in space!
  3. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 11:51 am
    atheism for the win!!!
  4. Profile photo of Kegomatix
    Kegomatix Male 18-29
    1341 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    Just beating a dead horse... There is no point in presenting logical questions to religious nuts.
  5. Profile photo of nac007
    nac007 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:07 pm
    Huh, this line of reasoning is the reason I am not a follower of any religion. It`s a shame that is too difficult for most people to objectively consider the logical argument presented in this video.

    YOUR religion is no more special than any other, in ANY way.
  6. Profile photo of OutWest
    OutWest Male 50-59
    546 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    .... as if believing in atheism is not faith?
  7. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    I believe there could be a higher power. It`s within the realm of my possibilities. But I also believe this... which is why you will never catch me in a church.
  8. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:18 pm
    Yeah, well, the Bible TELLS US it`s the truth, so it`s God`s rules, not mine. - actual quote from a Christian religist I spoke to once.
  9. Profile photo of nac007
    nac007 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    @OutWest
    ".... as if believing in atheism is not faith?"
    The line of reasoning in this video does not imply that there is no supreme being. It just points out all religions are equally valid/invalid. If anything, the logical conclusion is to choose to be agnostic. While it is likely most religions are incorrect, this does not imply that there is no supreme being.
  10. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    Outwest:
    I`m sorry, but your idiotic claim doesn`t hold any water. It`s like saying a person who doesn`t collect stamps is still a collector. Faith is a term for things we cannot prove. Not believing in a matter of pure, baseless faith does not require any faith on the non-believer`s part.
  11. Profile photo of bobclean
    bobclean Male 18-29
    80 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    Outwest, I hope your comment ".... as if believing in atheism is not faith?" is a lame attempt at humour. One does not `believe in atheism`. Atheism is a LACK of belief in a deity.
  12. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Nice message, but too long...got preachy.
  13. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    I guess that applies to the people who believe in Anthropogenic Global warming too.
  14. Profile photo of nac007
    nac007 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    Also, I`m full agnostic:
  15. Profile photo of Ajikan
    Ajikan Male 18-29
    1526 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    It`s been said many times before, but buddhism is closer to philosophy than an actual religion.
    It doesn`t conform to the same pattern most religions follow.
    I might be wrong, and I`m sure there are different views on this. But from my understanding they view time as other religions view god. More precisely the ever present state of the universe. Or as your read it, now.
  16. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    " I guess that applies to the people who believe in Anthropogenic Global warming too. "

    Other than the fact that I used to think it was bogus until I realized I had done little research/homework on it. Then when I did research it I found out I was wrong, that it exists, and I was able to change my mind.

    Most of the people I know who accept AGW would gladly change their minds if ample evidence was given to the contrary. Unfortunately, it isn`t.
  17. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    @bobclean
    Atheism is still a belief system. Our beliefs lead us to live our lives in a certain way. So maybe Outwests use if the word "faith" is misplaced.
  18. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    Hard truth: you live on average 70 years on this pooty world full of pooty people.
    Reassuring fairy tale: You will live forever with all your loved ones in eternal bliss.

    OMG, so hard to choose
  19. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    9:11 Nine minutes and eleven seconds...

    *yawn!* Long and booooriiiiing.

    My Deism remains un-mentioned! Un-challenged! I`m totally right! Yet again!
  20. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    5Cats, if you think about it, Deism is just Atheism without the commitment.
  21. Profile photo of Zuriel
    Zuriel Male 30-39
    554 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm
    deism.. lol
    just as foolish as mormonism, christianity and scientology

    I believe every man made religion (so all religions) fall under one category... FANTASY, but believe what you want, who am i to tell you what to believe or what not to believe.
  22. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 3:53 pm
    Another one sided video for science and against faith. Someday we will all understand that science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind.
  23. Profile photo of soundman655
    soundman655 Male 50-59
    1558 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:10 pm
    And so glad another one-Sun Myung Mood- is no more. Now for the rest of the shysters
  24. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:24 pm
    Atheism is still a belief system.

    No, it isn`t. It`s a lack of one. People who have a deeply engrained belief system, one that permeates through their mind, are often unable to understand the idea of not having a belief system - it`s too alien an idea to them. So they mistakenly believe that atheism is another belief system even though it obviously isn`t.

    Your incorrect definition of atheism leads to not just one but two absurd conclusions:

    1) Most atheists are not atheists (since they don`t have any religious beliefs).

    2) All or almost all theists are more atheist than most atheists are. All or at least almost all theists believe in the non-existence of hundreds of gods. Most atheists don`t believe in the non-existence of them.

    Since your definition leads to absurd conclusions, it is an absurd definition in addition to being obviously inaccurate.
  25. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Someday we will all understand that science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind.

    You just love that snappy soundbite, don`t you?

    Shame it isn`t true. Science without religion is science and religion without science is religion.

    Using science as a prop for religion is effective if you don`t mind the dishonesty of it and you think that religion can`t stand by itself.
  26. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    nac007: I disagree with your diagram.

    Agnosticism is not a theological position. It`s a philosophical one, encompassing everything and not just religion. It`s the idea that you shouldn`t claim something to be definitely, objectively true unless you can objectively prove it true. So, for example, all science is agnostic.

    Gnostic is backformed as the opposite, although it was originally a theological position - it was a version of Christianity that was oppressed out of existence by the version that won the early war within Christianity and which forms the basis for all existing versions of Christianity.

    So saying that you are agnostic says nothing about your theological position. Either you believe in a god or gods or you don`t - either you`re a theist or an atheist. You could be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, but you have to be one or the other.
  27. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    Angilion: many people delude themselves into thinking that science or religion are at odds and will never work together. While it can be easy to say that science and faith won`t work hand in hand due to the confusion today; most sensible people know that they will both work hand in hand in the end.
  28. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    So, I think that the only actual positions are the intersections in your diagram:

    Agnostic atheist: I can`t objectively prove the existence or lack thereof of any gods, so I don`t claim to know which position is objective truth. I don`t believe either way - I don`t take a position of faith.

    Agnostic theist: I can`t objectively prove the existence or lack thereof of any gods, so I don`t claim to know which position is objective truth. I believe in a god or gods as a position of faith.

    Gnostic atheist: I KNOW that there are no gods. I don`t need objective proof.

    Gnostic theist: I KNOW that my god or gods exist. I don`t need objective proof.

    That covers every possible position, so there are no other positions.
  29. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:50 pm
    @TheGuySmiley "science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind"

    No, science without religion is science. Religion without science is religion. They are two completely seperate things, and both operate far better in the total absence of the other. Amd I for one would far rather live in a world without religion than one without science.
  30. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 4:52 pm
    TheSmileyGuy: You are confusing religion and science in order to promote your faith. Or you`re trolling. One of the two. Given your posting record, I think you`re trolling.

    Science and religion are mutually exclusive. Confusing the two serves only to undermine science and to position religion as a parasite leeching off science. It`s a very unpleasant position to take.

    A theist can also be a scientist. They could regard science as holy work - getting a deeper appreciation of the work of their god or gods by understanding it better. They could regard science as the thing their god or gods intended humanity to do, like a parent providing opportunities for their children to improve themselves by learning. But if they`re actually scientists, they`ll know that science and religion are mutually exclusive. They require totally different ways of thinking and cannot be merged.
  31. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:01 pm
    artmunki: yes two different things, but cannot go forward without the other.
  32. Profile photo of iambored777
    iambored777 Male 50-59
    2 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    Of course I believe what I was born into. God wanted me to be born into the faith and family that I was born into. And not all religions believe that everyone else should believe in the same God. I`m perfectly fine with my own religion, and fine that others have their own, as long as everyone respects each other and allows everyone else to believe as they want.
  33. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:14 pm
    Angilion: I`m not confusing anything, nor am I trying to promote my faith, or `trolling` as you say. It is only sensible that scicence and religion to work hand in hand, because without faith and religion as a moral compass for science, it will eventually destroy itself. On the flipside, without science to provide the tools necessary to bring us closer together and on the same page, so we can work closer in harmony and love, then so too will religion destroy itself. People in both camps will say that sicience or religion is not needed. But it`s blind and/or lame becuase they`ll work hand in hand.

    There`s really no point in arguing about it, because faith in God will continue on, and we will continue to use science.

    Videos like these, however, do nothing to help mankind work closer together, but really only serve as a chest beater, driving a wedge between people.

    Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind.
  34. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:14 pm
    yes two different things, but cannot go forward without the other.

    That is a statement of faith. It has no supporting evidence. In fact, the available evidence opposes it.
  35. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:18 pm
    without faith and religion as a moral compass for science, it will eventually destroy itself.

    Another statement of faith. You are using statements of faith to support statements of faith and claiming that it`s logic. That is not true.

    Religion is amoral, so it`s silly to claim that it`s the only source of moral guidance.

    Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told.

    Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right.

    Religion is about obedience, not morality. It is utterly amoral and therefore cannot serve as a moral compass.
  36. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm
    Also...which religion and which rules of obedience that you mistakenly call morality? There are many different ones.

    Tell me how torturing people to death for adultery is necessary to avoid science destroying everyone.

    Tell me how killing people for loving someone of a different religion (or different version of the same religion) is necessary to avoid science destroying everyone.

    Tell me how killing or torturing or (if you`re a "moderate") shunning people for having sex without the explicit approval of the religious authorities is necessary to avoid science destroying everyone.

    You are making untrue statements. Stupidly, obviously untrue statements. It looks like an attempt to use science as a host for your religion because science is proven to be extremely useful to humanity and your religion isn`t. It looks like trolling. But it doesn`t look like truth.
  37. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:27 pm
    People "believe what they believe" because of how and where they were raised as children, it`s that simple. There are some that question this, move on to other things, and then there are the rest who follow in the same faith blindly.

    I always laugh when I ask someone who is Christian, why they`re Christian. The response is always, "because I just am, I was raised in a Christian family, so I`m Christian, and I believe Christianity is the right religion."

    Then I throw in a few "what if`s" like, "Well, what if you were born somewhere else into a Jewish family, or a Muslim family? Would you be Jewish or Muslim then? Would whatever religion you were indoctrinated into be the right religion, or would you have found your way over to Christianity?" I usually never get a response to that question, or they try to talk their way out of it using some form of f*cked up logic that isn`t logical at all.
  38. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 5:44 pm
    Smiley - sorry, but no. Almost every instance of interaction between the two fields are typified by the religious side attempting to restrict science in some way. Religion may be keen to try to borrow a degree of relevance by claiming some affinity with scientific thought, but nothing has been more damaging to scientific progress than religion.
  39. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    "without faith and religion as a moral compass for science" WRONG WRONG WRONG!

    Basic morality serves as a "moral compass" for science, not religion. The fact that religions claim that morality can only derive from religion (and most of the time, only from whichever religion is favoured by whoever is spouting this nonsense) is quite probably the single most immoral thing about religion. Especially as every religion then goes on to pervert their teaching of morality into a mess of bigotry and prejudice.
    Morality is a general human trait, not a religious one. It`s been around a lot longer than any of the religions that try to claim it as their own, and it will (hopefully!) persist long after humanity has outgrown all of these primitive, divisive belief systems. We couldn`t have developed complex social structures without it.

    You could say that religion derives from morality, but not the other way round.
  40. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:03 pm
    Angilion: The fact is that faith in God is not going away. It`s delusional to think that science will do away with religion. People will be trusting in God, learning love from God, and believing in God, for all time to come. After all God is real and comes in to people`s lives. Lots of people also want to understand the wonders of God`s creation, and how it works (Psalm 111:2). They can do this through science, and becuase of this, science and religion will work together. People love to understand the wonders of God`s creation, wether they have faith, or not.

    So again, there is no point in arguing it, because people in this world have faith in God, and plans should be made based on science and religion working hand in hand. Both are great tools, but to say one is not needed is like an electrician saying he wants to use all phillips and no slot screwdrivers..
  41. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm
    artmunki: God is love, and through faith in Him, and through Churches He urges us to love one another. We all know this world so needs love more than anything else. Science alone is not best suited to explain and understand love, it deals with figures, and observations. Whereas religion, but more importantly faith, is the better tool to hone the finer points of love, which can allow us to exercise, bring out, and share with the world in need of it.

    Like it or not we have both science and religion, and most sensible people know they will work hand in hand eventually.
  42. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:21 pm
    TheGuySmiley is only spewing his favorite catch phrase because he can`t answer the questions in the video.

    His catch phrase also shows a profound inability to distinguish science from how the results of science are used. For example, the computer he is using is a result of scientific understanding. The fact that he can use that computer to spread ignorance does not mean that the science that provided our understanding was in any way immoral or prone to being used to spread ignorance.
  43. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:27 pm
    @Angilion
    I didn`t say that atheists believe in anything. I said they have a belief system. They are two different things. If they don`t believe in anything, what drives them? Why do so many of them attack religion? I`ll tell you why. They BELIEVE religion to be false. There is the Belief SYSTEM I spoke of.
  44. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:41 pm
    Atheism is still a belief system.
    I didn`t say that atheists believe in anything.
    Umm, yes you did.

    BTW, God and religion are two separate things. One could believe in God and still believe all religions are wrong. Just as Atheists can lack faith in God and still KNOW that religions are wrong. There is no requirement to have faith that nothing is there to know that religion is wrong.
  45. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm
    smiley - first off, congrats on completely ignoring any of my points, and instead riffing off on some poorly-defined idea of "love". But I`m happy to take you up on that too.

    I don`t need anyone`s imaginary daddy-in-the-sky to know about love. I know love from my family and from my friends, and I do just fine thanks. And I most certainly have no interest in the needy, demanding kind of love espoused by most religions - loving whichever deity you`ve chosen above all else (including your family, and in forfeiture of all other deities), and following said deity`s every command (even the hateful and divisive ones). And all you get in return is a weak justification for your sense of self-importance. Thanks, but no thanks.
  46. Profile photo of thatjimguy
    thatjimguy Male 30-39
    458 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 6:43 pm
    Compelling.
  47. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm
    NottaSpy: So from what i understand, you`re upset at what i have to say, that science and religion will work together, or that that i don`t answer the questions to a video which I`ve already noted is one sided against faith (making it absurd since science and religion work hand in hand IMHO). Somehow you feel the need make judgments on my intelligence, which are clearly based on prejudice? Yet I`m the ignorant one? *rolls eyes*
  48. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:16 pm
    artmunki: I have no doubt you have love in your family and friends, but Learning of love from God can help us to understand the deep lessons of love which can help cure the ailments of this world. If you were to ever study the deep lessons of love from God, It would be hard for you to deny that it can cure so many ailments in this world. This is why religion or faith, will work hand in hand with science. Look it already does! People have faith in God and will continue to have faith in God forever, meaning religion will continue. We have science and it will continue too. So it`s wishful thinking to say that science and religion will never work together, or science will lead the way, because they are both unique tools that we need to solve unique problems.
  49. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:18 pm
    NottaSpy
    So...belief in nothing is not a belief system yet it is discribed as such? I`ve said nothing of faith. I`ve said nothing of God or religion. Believing in nothing is still believing ergo...belief system.
  50. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm
    “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

    Stephen Roberts
  51. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1794 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:39 pm
    religion is a funny thing...
  52. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:44 pm
    Smiley - okay, I`ll allow you one point - that science and religion will have to find a way to proceed without continually coming to blows. Not because this is the best possible route for human wellbeing, but because religion will continue to try to cling on to any possible perception of relevance, and science will just have to put up with it. Science progresses despite religion, not thanks to it. Just as religion persists despite scientific progress. But despite your protestations, the two fields are fundamentally opposed. Science strives to push back the limits of human ignorance, but religion is borne of ignorance, and only persists where ignorance remains. And this is precisely why there will *always* be contention - the more science pushes ignorance back, the more religion has to fight to cling on to a semblance of relevance. And religions really seem to resent having to give up ground to something as prosaic as simple facts.
  53. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 7:56 pm
    NottaSpy
    So...belief in nothing is not a belief system yet it is discribed as such? I`ve said nothing of faith. I`ve said nothing of God or religion. Believing in nothing is still believing ergo...belief system.


    actually no, not believing is NOT a belief system. the burden of proof lies with the person claiming that there is a god (whichever one that is) and YOU must prove that it exist. In other words, the persons you tell about your god has NO burden of proof and has no reason to believe you at all and their non-belief is not a belief system.

    again, in other words, you saying that their non-belief is a belief system is the same as saying they cannot disprove that a god exist, therefore they have FAITH they are right that no god exist.

    that is a fallacy. again, no burden of proof lies on the person hearing about your god, therefore it is NOT a belief system for them to NOT believe...it is simply non-belief.

    burden of proof buddy, learn,
  54. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 8:00 pm
    "Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind."

    yea I`m just gonna say it, there is no sense in that at all. Science does not, nor has it ever required faith or religion in order to be science, in order to explore, to seek the truth of the universe and to hold to the scientific principles of empirical testing.

    tell me, what could religion possibly do for science other than hold it back?
  55. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    artmunki: I understand your view, and see it in a similar way, but as the yin and yang are. Where both have equal power, but are a necessary part of the whole, and one would be lost without the other. I think that religion will be as our government is today, acting as our social way of life, based on love, being excellent, admirable, honourable, pure and true. And science will act as our means to grow and expand ourselves with what we can find out..

    They both are unique tools for unique jobs, and while you may say science is better than religion, you must understand that even today science is at odds with itself. Like for example, the climate change debate. There are scientists who say that it`s bogus, others who say it`s real, some who say we don`t know but it`s likely due to us. If they all said the truth (as faith urges us) there would be no question about it, and rather than confusing people we would be solving problems.
  56. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 8:21 pm
    jamie76: Love

    Everything is efficient when things are working with love.

    Why do you think the world is so messed up today?

    Because the world needs love.
  57. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 8:34 pm
    Notaspy - Atheism is not `believing in nothing`, but rather `not believing in any deity`. That`s all the word means - not a belief that there *isn`t* a god, but a lack of belief that there *is* one.

    Theism of any kind requires a conscious (or, more often, indoctrinated) choice to believe in something for which there can be no evidence (even by religious teaching, gods are always "unknowable"). Atheism isn`t a choice to believe that a deity/deities don`t exist, but a choice not to make the extra effort required to believe.

    Now, it`s true to say that *some* atheists do have their own belief systems (gnostic atheists), while others have no beliefs at all (agnostic atheists). And it`s certainly also true that a growing number of people who call themselves atheists fervently believe that there is no god (strictly speaking, they`re anti-theists), but these are all special conditions. Atheism is defined by a lack of belief, not belief in a lack.
  58. Profile photo of RytWing
    RytWing Male 30-39
    316 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 8:38 pm
    Wow! You repost my post and still don`t get it. I`ll repeat my self. I`ve said nothing of god or religion. Your retort is all about god and religion. Your argument is about something different.
    If I were to say to you that I don`t believe in Bigfoot, then I have established a stance on Bigfoot. I`m aware of the idea of Bigfoot, however I don`t believe in him. To truly lack a belief system you would have to be completely ignorant of what ever it is to be believed in. I find it hard to believe that atheists are truly ignorant of the idea of God thereby establishing a belief system.
    The true answer to lack of belief is not "I don`t believe in..." but "what is ...".
  59. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:01 pm
    Smiley - no, you clearly don`t understand my point at all. There is no cosmic balance between science and religion - every advance in scientific understanding of the world around us diminishes the ground religion stands upon.

    All religions have two core practical purposes - the establishment of acceptable behaviour and explanation of the unknown. If we dispose with religion`s immoral claim on (and perversion of) morality and continue to develop the legal systems we all live under, the first purpose is nullified. So religion is left with explanation of the unknown, but as science progresses, the domain of things science cannot explain but to which religion claims to offer an answer (always the same answer: `god did it`, which is just another way of saying `I don`t know`) will grow ever smaller. And like any animal backed into a corner, religion lashes out in its defence. Which is precisely why religious activity is getting increasingly aggressive.
  60. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    I have two kids. The older one is an atheist and the younger one believes in God, Jesus, Father Christmas, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy, etc. not to mention ancestor worship, and various tenents of Asian religions. Why? Because Buddhists who went to catholic school, the media, and the domestic help have been telling him of gods as if it were the truth. Now is not the time, but as soon as he figures out about Santa, EB and the Tooth Fairy, I`ll just slip in "of course God is not real, but don`t spoil it for other people".
  61. Profile photo of artmunki
    artmunki Male 30-39
    176 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:14 pm
    Smiley - and one other thing. While I enjoy poiting out the fallacies in your statements, all this talk of science has absolutely nothing to with the video you were allegedly defending your beliefs against. Correct me if I`m wrong, but I don`t recall any part of that vid saying anyone should eschew religion for science. You were the first to state that the video was "Another one sided video for science and against faith". The video was neither - it was just a suggestion to question the reasons for your faith. It`s very telling that the faithful take this as an attack on their faith, when it`s actually nothing of the kind. If you`re going to believe in something then you should really know *why* you hold that belief. If you can`t honestly answer such a simple question, what value does your faith really have? And why would such a simple question be so threatening if your faith can be honestly justified?
  62. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:14 pm
    Smiley, I need to challenge you on a couple of things.

    1) You say religion can help science, and vice versa. OK, how? I know not all people of faith have this stance, but many directly oppose science in various important fields. Some examples: Religious whack-jobs all over the US and other places are in direct opposition to the observable scientific reality of Evolution, which is a much a cornerstone of all biological science as Plate Tectonics is to geoscience. And they’re actually teaching children this, making them scientifically illiterate, harming them.
  63. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:14 pm
    Hell, they’ve even got a “Creationist Museum” in the states, with animatronic dinosaurs with humans riding on their back. Another example would be opposing stem-cell research in medicinal science, based on religious ideals. Or locking up scientists such as Galileo for daring to presume that the earth isn’t the centre of the universe – how many great scientific ideas were put back decades or centuries because those who had such thoughts were afraid to speak up against The Church?. Or perpetuating the spread of AIDS in Africa by certain Christian ministries (mainly Catholic) teaching those uneducated that condoms don’t work. I could go on, but you get the idea.
  64. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm
    2) Still on the subject of science, you state
    See, that’s the thing, right there. Science is humble and malleable, at it’s best. Science starts from the position of “here’s the evidence. Now let’s try to interpret that evidence to understand the truth”. Many scientific theories have been overturned multiple times, and rightly so. Newton had it all figured out in Gravity, until Einstein, and now lately in string theory etc.
  65. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm
    Religion on the other hand starts from the position of “Here is the truth. Jesus Christ (for example, in your case), is the way, the truth and the light. Nothing changes that”. And then everything else has to fit that starting point. To put it simply, science is trying to find truth through evidence. Religion says we already knows the truth, it’s written down here in the Bible. Or Quran. Or Guru Granth Sahib. Whatever particular flavour of religion you happen to have been born into.
  66. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:16 pm
    3) Getting philosophical now – when you say that God is Love, I have to ask this. Please answer me as honestly as you’re able. I’m an atheist. Heck, I’m more than that, I’m an anti-theist. That is to say, I think the world would be a better place without religion in it. Growing up in Northern Ireland will do that to you, where you’ve experienced being hit in the face with a mist of blood from victims of a car-bomb for being slightly the wrong flavour of Christian (Catholic vs Protestant)

    Sorry, I digress (it’s my birthday so I’m kinda drunk I freely admit)
  67. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:17 pm
    When you say God is Love, you mean your God, right? I love the idea of love. I’m an atheist, but I love my 6 year old daughter, I love my wife, I love my family. But the Christian idea of love, as with all religions, is a conditional love. Conditional on you being a Christian. Everyone else is going to burn in hell for eternity. You can only enter the Kingdom of God if you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, right?
  68. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm
    I used to be a Christian. Hardcore Christian now, Bible camps, Prayer Groups, Youth Fellowship, the works. When I hit about 15 I realised it wasn’t for me.

    Christians, like all religions, preach that “God is Love”, while what they really mean is “my God, not yours”. But it’s a very conditional kind of love. And everyone I love in my life, I love unconditionally. Sorry, but I don’t f*cking buy it.
  69. Profile photo of OutWest
    OutWest Male 50-59
    546 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 9:56 pm
    atheism-
    rejection of belief in God or gods
    Or the opposite of theism

    From what I read almost daily here from those that preach atheism. I think most would say they don`t believe because science can`t prove there is a God or Gods. In forming this opinion they believe that the lack of scientific evidence is thus evidence proving their belief. Sounds like a lot of faith to me?

    So they believe that science has discovered and proved all there is to know!

    What I don`t understand here, is how much those that don`t believe try and convince those that do believe how what they believe is right.

    I myself am not a believer, but I do think each of us comes to our own conclusion, and I don`t feel the need to have you agree with me.
  70. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 3, 2012 at 10:08 pm
    Douchey voice.
  71. Profile photo of Schatzu
    Schatzu Male 18-29
    1 post
    September 4, 2012 at 12:20 am
    Angilion: Ethics, not morals, is doing what is right or wrong regardless of what others think.

    Also: religion is first and foremost a socio-economic construct used to control and unite a group or groups of people. This clip hit on that somewhat and then focused mainly on the question of faith, which is in actuality irrelevant to the problem of religion given that one need not have faith in God in order to lead people within a congregation just as one need not have faith in order to obey the rules and regulations of a particular "faith"; this type of leader-follower duality is an example of inter-personal relationships within society whereas faith refers to the inner thought processes which govern how a person thinks, not how they behave.

    As for faith: faith and belief are inescapable facets of the daily functioning of the human brain. You have faith the sun will rise and you believe someone cares what you think when you post stuff online. Even athiests ha
  72. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 12:45 am
    I have seen space.
    All religions are irrelevant to me.
  73. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 2:38 am
    artmunki: Actually I understand your point of view perfectly, because I once thought as you do. But your understanding of religion seems to be one with much prejudice and bias. While you may say religion is lashing out like a animal in the corner, that`s far from the truth. After all, you only need to look at the posts against my posts here in this thread alone, with the name calling, belitting, mockery, and scorn. Is there a response in kind? No, it`s pointless, because this world needs love, and it`s something that faith and religion teaches us, to love one another. there`s no doubt in me that faith and religion will work together. Without love we will be a very cold and apathic race, and without learning from the author of love, God, we`ll not be able to understand the deep lessons of love the world so needs.

    In regards to the video, It was heralding science over faith by the end. But one without the other is blind/lame.
  74. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 2:57 am
    davymid: Love. God, the author of love can teach us great depths of love that can cure all the world`s ailments. Teaching us how to be humble and meek.

    It`s sad some people have killed in the name of their faith, and that you saw it first hand, but they are the minority. There are forces at work in this world that would like us to destroy ourselves. But about who is a Christian you should understand that Christ never killed. He said love one another, and if someone doesn`t do that, why call them Christian? You will know a Christian by their love.

    You can see what the ways of evil can do to the good things in this world. But God`s love is unconditional.. while people may not be perfect, which is why it may seem conditional, always be on the look out for people who love like God does, because they`ve learned from Him, and their love is unconditional. They are like the saints and angels of light, and you will know them by their love.
  75. Profile photo of gigs1890
    gigs1890 Male 18-29
    32 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 3:30 am
    booooooooooooring
  76. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 3:42 am
    TheGuySmiley:
    "Love. God, the author of love"

    Humans are the author of love, not god.
  77. Profile photo of mesovortex
    mesovortex Male 30-39
    458 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 3:44 am
    "From what I read almost daily here from those that preach atheism. I think most would say they don`t believe because science can`t prove there is a God or Gods. In forming this opinion they believe that the lack of scientific evidence is thus evidence proving their belief. Sounds like a lot of faith to me? "

    That`s not faith, it`s just being rational. If the concept of god is supernatural, then it is useless as an explanation and does nothing more than to give you warm fuzzy feelings. It explains nothing in the real world, and can`t.

    I don`t care if that`s how you get your jollies and warm fuzzy feelings, but it doesn`t alter reality and you shouldn`t lord your faith over others.
  78. Profile photo of MrAtari
    MrAtari Male 40-49
    1562 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 3:45 am
    Time for a new religion, based on the discovery of the universe:
  79. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:22 am
    @Davy "But the Christian idea of love, as with all religions, is a conditional love. Conditional on you being a Christian."

    I understand you may have been a bit drunk, but as my Lord has/had commanded - I love you unconditionally like unto a brother. I know we have argued in the past, but I hope you find that not all Christians have conditions associated with their portion of the Great Commission.
  80. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:29 am
    The problem with Christianity is people often take things out of context. Our commission is to love one another and to witness.

    "Witness" does not mean "force".

    Christianity did a great many things for my life, and that is that. I have no desire to force my faith on anyone. You believe in the flying spaghetti monster? Fine... lets go grab a coffee and a smoke. I`d really like to hear why you believe that if you want to tell it.

    I am a scientist. I leave my Bible at the door, and my faith in my heart. I let my mind make unbiased decisions. You find that hard to believe? Then read my reports and/or articles. Spare me the same consideration I have others. If not... fine. I don`t really care. I study science for my own interest, and to add to the community.

    I believe what I believe (to answer the link) after my own careful study. I have a degree in religious studies (history and psychology also). I do not be
  81. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:34 am
    I do not believe like my family or community. I live in an area of Southern Baptists and Pentecostals. I follow neither of these beliefs. Upon closer examination of these faiths, I find them blind and ignorant. I detest faith in this manner.

    I spent time studying Confucianism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Spiritualism (through Cherokee and other tribal beliefs -- I am about half blooded Cherokee), Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Judaism, Islam, and many many other beliefs.

    I found that my own type of Protestantism -- one in which the bible is used as a moral guide as opposed to a history book or science manual, and relationship with the savior is stressed has suited my life just fine. That is what I believe. I came to this conclusion after utilizing trial and error in many other faiths and lifestyles.
  82. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:41 am
    Davy, what I am saying is... you grew up in a militant Christian society. It makes sense you rebuke that. I have studied the conflict in Ireland. I know it was (and still is) bloody. It has spilled over on to the soccer pitch.

    You equate that with the whole of Christianity. That makes you biased. It`s quite okay though.

    There was a time in my own life that I felt very different about many things. I was raised southern Baptist. They reject science and learning. They are ignorant, and ostracize 85% of the community I live in as "sinners" who are going to hell. Quite a ridiculous concept if you ask me.

    The other option in my community oppresses any and all education, and their women to life of servitude. Going to college in a Pentecostal church is frowned upon -- you start to get ideas in your head after all!

    The faiths I am surrounded by are terrified of education, because in general it weakens the church.
  83. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:47 am
    For those reasons, I rebuke local churches. However, and while most would rebuke religion as a whole. I have a naturally inquisitive mind. I like to know about society, culture, faiths, etc.

    I studied other philosophies and faiths. Much to the dismay of my community, I developed my own beliefs. Who knows, maybe if I was in some other society things would have been different. I do not doubt that.

    However, I am who I am, and I studied what I did, and I concluded what I did.

    Having faith does not make one weak, or ignorant. It also does not make one militant. Yes, Christianity has a lot of morons in it (Have you seen Oldollie and Cracker`s posts? LOL!) That does not mean the whole of Christianity is nothing but ignorant people who reject the entire scientific community.

  84. Profile photo of Dr4k
    Dr4k Male 18-29
    575 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 6:48 am
    I don`t have a problem with most religions that preach love and compassion (which is a good deal in my experience) It`s when the majority of those that claim to be a part of that religion subscribe to a doctrine of hate and discrimination. Jesus was essentially a socialist but our most right wing fundamentalist christian politicians are so anti-socialism it`s almost funny. This is only an example but there are many others of why I initially rejected Christianity and started looking at other faiths. I`ve come to a point where I don`t believe in any god, I believe in being a decent human being. i believe religions in addition to trying to explain the phenomena around them were also an attempt to try to make people able to work together in a society. A cultural tool to promote goodness and a sense of belonging within a community. I don`t care what you believe as long as you are a decent person.
  85. Profile photo of Andicicle
    Andicicle Male 18-29
    503 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 7:40 am
    Surprise surprise, asked to confront basic fundamental truths, out pops an idiotic theological debate. :: groans::
  86. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 9:05 am
    I love statements like this: "Jesus was essentially a socialist".

    Might as well make idiotic statements like "Moses was essentially an environmentalist" or "Mohammed was essentially a feminist, pro-gay-marriage, Obama supporter with a strong feeling about the Keystone Pipeline."

    Applying modern economic or political conceits to people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago is so moronic it`s pointless to even debate with such a brain-dead half-wit.
  87. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 9:39 am
    I do not believe in organized religion. Every religion contradicts another. I think it is all a fabrication to control the masses. But at the same time you can not prove to me there is no God. The same as you can not prove that there is a God. That is why I am Agnostic.
  88. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 9:44 am
    Okay, but...can we still wear little hats?
  89. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3283 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 11:17 am
    the devil wrote the bible to make you lose the way to god
  90. Profile photo of jinxjinx34
    jinxjinx34 Male 30-39
    183 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    Wow, what a well written piece. He really asked some great questions and presented some facts that are constantly in our face yet we remain completely blind to for the most part. And then... everyone personalizes it and starts arguing about religion lol. This almost completely muddles what the message the video was trying to convey. People really need to clear their minds and ask themselves these very important questions and really think about why they believe what they believe!
  91. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    "Jesus was essentially a socialist", John. Go back and read the fairy tale you`re denying now.
  92. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 2:42 pm
    Everything, and I do mean everything can be explained by learning and scientific reasoning. Reality is cold and hard, but warmth can be found within it if you open your mind.
  93. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 4:44 pm
    elkingo: i really admired what you wrote, i wish i could express myself just as well. well done.
  94. Profile photo of brandonegc
    brandonegc Male 18-29
    27 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 8:37 pm
    I don`t think condoms are sin although I feel abortion is an option that should not be taken lightly, I support gay marriage, I would never start a f*cking world war over my religion, I don`t think we should ban evolution from text books from classrooms, I believe everyone should be aloud to practice any religion or lack thereof and all that sh*t. I believe in a God and I believe there was a really cool and wise dude named Jesus. I may not sound like a Christian, but I am. So, dear guy in this video, can I keep my religion? Oh, and drop that stupid f*cking tone of voice. Trying to sound sympathetic, you`re just a condescending douchebag.
  95. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 8:56 pm
    Alright, let`s boil this down. Elkingo and Smiley, you`re both obviously intelligent people, but please answer the question.

    I am an atheist. I don`t believe in f*ck all, unless there`s evidence for it. Am I going to burn in hell for all eternity, if I die today of a heart attack?

    You say God`s love in unconditional, but it`s f*cking not. It`s conditional on you being a Christian.

    That is not unconditional, it`s the very definition of "with conditions". The conditions being, you HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN. OTHERWISE YOU`RE GOING TO BE F*CKED IN THE ASS BY DEMONS FROM HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY.

    Sorry, but that message, for me, is f*cking abhorrent and disgusting in the extreme.

    Davy out. Keep preaching. If the God you describe is the boss of all, then he`s a c*nt, and I want nothing to do with him.
  96. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 9:18 pm
    TheGuySmiley, I asked you three questions/challenges. Of course you`re no under obligation to answer them, but I`d be interested to hear your take.
  97. Profile photo of jinxjinx34
    jinxjinx34 Male 30-39
    183 posts
    September 4, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    brandonegc- I don`t recall the narrator asking people to abandon their beliefs. He only asks that we take a critical look at HOW they are formed. Is that bad? You go on to paint yourself as some hip lovable Christian and than call the guy a douchebag because what he had to say offended your sensibilities. I am curious to know what you got from the video. Were you able to listen to it`s message objectively, or did you automatically reject it because it went against one of your personal beliefs?
  98. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13600 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 1:10 am
    ``You say God`s love in unconditional, but it`s f*cking not. It`s conditional on you being a Christian.

    That is not unconditional, it`s the very definition of "with conditions". The conditions being, you HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN. OTHERWISE YOU`RE GOING TO BE F*CKED IN THE ASS BY DEMONS FROM HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY.

    Sorry, but that message, for me, is f*cking abhorrent and disgusting in the extreme.

    Davy out. Keep preaching. If the God you describe is the boss of all, then he`s a c*nt, and I want nothing to do with him.``

    Davymid

    Im with you all the way
  99. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 6:00 am
    @davymid: I`ve heard the "God = Love" explained a couple of ways.
    I attended a fundamentalist Christian High School, eh?
    #1: God>>>>humans>goldfish.
    Humans feel sad when goldfish die, but it`s not a "sin" to kill them, right? God is SO much higher on the "food chain" that his killing us or sending us to hell is NOT immoral, since HE knows it`s all for the best.
    >A whimpy answer: it falls into the "we cannot understand it" catagory.

    #2: Because God created US, it`s OUR duty to obey his rules and OUR fault if we fail!
    >Bleh! If God`s so much better than us, why isn`t hHe better at understanding our transgressions?

    Both do address that it IS `conditional love`, at least as far as we can tell.

    It`s the Muslims who REALLY have a nasty hell!
  100. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 6:16 am
    "Am I going to burn in hell for all eternity, if I die today of a heart attack?"

    I do not claim to know the answer. It simply isn`t my place to judge others. I think the better question here is, do you think if you die today will you burn in Hell? It isn`t my place to work out your salvation.

    However, your conditions and definition on love somewhat confuse me. Perhaps it is also how you define Hell.

    The love portion in unconditional. God is love, and loves his creation. That is what I have came to understand.

    However, and perhaps this is where you err, Heaven is a reward for faith, not a condition of love.

    You look at and define Hell in the comic book and movie sense where its all firey and demons roam as rapists. You may be right, and I have been looking at things wrong. However, I look at Hell as a place void of God. Also, eternity is a measured amount of time, not permanent.

    Hope that helps.
  101. Profile photo of ChainsawNbud
    ChainsawNbud Male 50-59
    744 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 7:22 am
    After having studied the issue since I was a child, I have come to believe that organized religion is nothing but a means to control people (and therefore their money), and a way for stupid people to explain that which they do not understand.

    But I also believe your ability to choose a religion is (in most countries) your right.
  102. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm
    davymid: elkingo had a Good post.

    My understanding is this world is perishing, meaning, there is a time coming when the world will perish. It`s perishing because we`ve let wickedness and sin grow and abound, while muzzling and distorting love.

    God`s love is unconditional, and He is extending his hand, offering us a way out of this perishing world. God would prefer all people come to understand His love, then any perish with the world. But despite God`s love for mankind, some people will choose to reject God`s love right up to the very last. God is love, and He is not going to force his love on to anyone. He has provided us the lessons to know him, and the promise of finding Him if we seek Him.

    Those who chose who reject God`s love may have nothing to latch on to when the world finally perishes, and perish with the world. It is going to be a very sad. Because while there were many chances to be saved, ultimately, their choice was not to be.
  103. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 2:30 pm
    davymid: as for your other questions ]]\\\

    1> love, the key lesson of true religion is love. With true religion based on love, we`ll be able to bump science`s efficiency up several notches, because people won`t be making scientific devices for fame, fortune, and personal glory, but for their love of mankind, and for all of mankind.

    2> yes, i understand how the theoriies and understanidng of science works, but you must understand from the point above, that some times people just want make a name for themselves and reap the benefits of selfishness.. a perfect example is a previous IAB post that showed how Thomas Edison took the glory from Nikola Tesla.

    3> He`s our God, yours, mine, the guy on the other side of the planet and everyone. There`s only one true and living God. And as for the rest about this question, you`ll need to look over my other post..

    \/ \/
  104. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 8:46 pm
    Elkingo and TheGuySmiley,

    Thanks for taking the time to post back. Thoughtful responses indeed. It`s all too easy on the internet to ignore or flame, but both of you didn`t.

    Can`t say I agree with either of you, I still think that God`s love (if we`re talking about the same, Christian God, which I`m not sure we are), is entirely conditional. Conditional on you being a Christian.

    Anyways, healthy debate, and thanks for taking the time to respond. Especially you Elkingo, we go back a long ways here on IAB in debates, and I`ve always liked what you you had to say.

    Agree to disagree for now? For every person that accepts another person`s world-view, one has to accept that there`s others who think differently.

    Thanks guys. Enjoyed the discussion, see you in the next thread!
  105. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5386 posts
    September 5, 2012 at 10:24 pm
    *tips hat*
  106. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    September 7, 2012 at 7:12 pm
    I`m a believer. I think the narrator is missing the point of the bible. In my opinion, the bible is meant to be taken figuratively, not literally. Be good to each other, respect laws, try no to be an idiot that lives to prove others beliefs` are unfounded. I don`t believe one religion is right, while others are wrong. Isn`t it funny that almost all civilizations on Earth have a remarkably similar story of a supreme being without having been influenced by another civilization? Some were coerced to change by other civilizations, but the the original belief was there, just a different version.
    In short, believe what you want and stop trying to undermine people by indirectly picking fights because you choose not to believe. All you have to do is not believe. Why does it bother you so much if someone believes? Doesn`t bother me that someone doesn`t believe.
    Even atheists have faith. If you`ve ever made plans for the future, you have faith that you will be alive to fulfill them.
  107. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    September 7, 2012 at 7:15 pm
    I guess the best questions to the narrator would be, "Why does it bother you, and why are you so affected?"

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