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Date: 09/21/12 04:25 PM

90 Responses to Romney Releases 20 Years Of Tax Returns

  1. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    Link: Romney Releases 20 Years Of Tax Returns - Zero-point-zero percent cheating. More charity donations than taxes paid. Huh?
  2. Profile photo of mykunter
    mykunter Male 40-49
    2424 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:37 pm
    Veggie corndogs?

    Ew.
  3. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3907 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:39 pm
    Charitable donations are tax write-offs. You can reduce your amount of taxable income by up to 50% per year.
  4. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    Leave it to 5Cats to lie in the title. Or was that you Fancy trying to stir up trouble? Either way I am not biting.
  5. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1794 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:42 pm
    screw that his team of people had four months to clean them up....
  6. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    @whodat: True, BUT!
    #1 The Romneys didn`t use ALL of their charitable donations to down-size their taxes.
    #2 It`s perfectly legal
    #3 They STILL paid double what the average American paid in Fed Tax RATE (rate is the critical measure here).
    #4 Obama and Biden families: BOTH paid less tax RATE, both donated less money to charity.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D) the #4 person in the USA, claimed on the record that Romney was a tax cheater: he lied! The video is at the link.
  7. Profile photo of honkeylips
    honkeylips Male 30-39
    1586 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    @mervvicious the same could be said about Obama and producing his birth certificate. Why did he wait so long?
  8. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:50 pm
    @marhust: What lies in the title or description? I wrote all of it this time and it`s 100% fact.

    From the article: -Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%

    Watch The Video!
    Reid accuses him of: Not paying ANY TAXES for 10 years (lie)
    Makes more money in a DAY than average American makes in TWO YEARS (obvious lie! 60,000 a DAY income? That`s $22,000,000 a year? Not likely)
    It`s right there, one cannot make that up! And Reid isn`t a "radio host" he`s the GODDAMN DEMOCRAT SENATE MAJORITY LEADER!
  9. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:55 pm
    screw that his team of people had four months to clean them up...
    @mervviscious: Your paranoia is showing bro! He "cleaned up" 20 years of official tax returns? Really? Changed the records of dozens of branches of government without anyone knowing? Falsified facts of literally hundreds of companied going back 20 years without a single flaw? Riiiight.

    He let the MSM and Democrats blow smoke about his taxes, then played "An Ace" to shut them the drat up!
    Obama waited 3 years, Romney a couple of months.
    Obama was required BY LAW to produce, Romney did so volutarily.

    Night and day folks, one`s a liar and the other`s a (hopefully) honest man. And Harry Reid (who lied) is 4th in the chain of command for the USA.
  10. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 4:55 pm
    "@markust: What lies in the title or description? I wrote all of it this time and it`s 100% fact."

    The only thing PriceWaterhouse Coopers released was the Romney`s tax rate for the last 20 years. They did not release how much Romney made during that period or how much he paid in taxes. Romney did not release 20 years of tax returns like you falsely claim. That is a flat out lie.
  11. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:03 pm
    @markust: It`s a "noterized letter" from a trustee. It means he`s got the documents in his hands. Anyone who wanted to challenge his figures can take him to court and he`d produce the PRIVATE documents to the Judge.
    If the guy is lieing about them? He GOES TO JAIL.
    It`s splitting hairs to say the documents aren`t public. Neither are Obama`s or Bidens, so?

    Link Here
  12. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:08 pm
    Not even Foxnews.com has the nerve to lie like you do:

    "But the campaign is sticking by the candidate`s vow not to release more than his last two tax returns, which critics have made into a potent campaign issue."

    That isn`t buried in the story it is the second paragraph. And I see you have followed a lie with another bigger lie. Obama has fully released 12 years of tax returns. You can view them here. Do you have no shame?
  13. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:24 pm
    @markust: So a sworn statement made by the Trustee of their finances isn`t good enough for you? For me it proves that Reid and the Obama campaign flat-out lied.
    Releasing the "information of" the past 20 years isn`t as good as 20 years of actualy paperwork, that`s true! But the bottom line is: Romney proved them wrong.

    Noterized statement = admissable in court.

    Also: Romney Releases Sworn Information About 20 Years Worth OF His Past Tax Returns In Reply To Harry Reid - it just doesn`t fit in the headline!
  14. Profile photo of Tekinette
    Tekinette Male 30-39
    273 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:28 pm
    Obama released his tax returns from 2000 to 2011 and his 2011 federal income, gift tax returns and Illinois income tax return.

    Biden released his tax returns from 1998 to 2011, his 2011 federal income tax returns and his income tax returns for both Delaware and Virginia

    Romney released 2010 & 2011 tax returns along a letter with a summary from past 20 years.

    Ryan released 2010 & 2011 tax returns.


    So the fact that he didn`t release the tax returns but released a summary that`s 1 page long and uses % instead of real numbers is a good sign ? Okay...







  15. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:37 pm
    I honestly never cared about his taxes...
    He`s still an asshat.
  16. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    Romney didn`t release 20 years of anything. He released a summary. He won`t release his taxes because they`ll prove he committed voter fraud in Massachusetts. And they`ll prove he accepted amnesty in 2008 for hiding money in a Swiss bank account. You can`t vote for him anyway 5Cats haha.
  17. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    a) Releasing a summary is not the same as 20 years of tax returns
    b) Why not just link to a credible news source regarding what he released, instead of a poorly written diatribe?
  18. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    I`m going to take the high road and hold my tongue. I`m out of here.
  19. Profile photo of Tekinette
    Tekinette Male 30-39
    273 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 5:56 pm
    K now imagine if Obama released a summary of his birth certificate lol...

    Anyways gotta love how on Cat5`s townhall site in the comments they`re all highfiving each other over this crap.
  20. Profile photo of indisguise
    indisguise Female 40-49
    267 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 6:36 pm
    "So a sworn statement made by the Trustee of their finances isn`t good enough for you?"

    No. It isn`t.
  21. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 6:36 pm
    Still paying less tax proportionally then anyone who make 1/20 income.
    I will wait for the rebuttal .
  22. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1835 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 6:44 pm
    Should have used my submission as it showed the actual tax forms.

    Don`t worry cats, most here are just gonna hate no matter what you show them.
  23. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1835 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 6:53 pm
    Still paying less tax proportionally then anyone who make 1/20 income.
    I will wait for the rebuttal .

    Talk to Charlie Rangel.
  24. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4710 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Zero point zero percent entertaining. Bored of all the political garbage on IAB lately. Just a bunch of conservative a-holes arguing with pussy liberals.
  25. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:16 pm
    `Talk to Charlie Rangel.;

    Charlie Rangel was censured by both parties in the House. He`s not running for president.
  26. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1835 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:29 pm
    What some of you fail to understand is that Mitt didn`t write the tax laws. He`s just complying with them. Rangel is the head honcho of the House Ways and Means Committee.

    Weak Sauce from the left as always.
  27. Profile photo of Runemang
    Runemang Male 30-39
    2676 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:32 pm
    Well, as long as the family trustee has provided a summary ... how could anyone have ever doubted it.
  28. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:37 pm
    HAHAH AHAHAHAH AHAHAHAhahah ahahahahahahaa ahahaha *gasp* hahahahah ahahahahah aaha

    omg, my sides hurt..

    Romney made "birthers" out of like every democrat. This is like the most hilarious thing in the history of politics.
  29. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 7:54 pm
    "Show us the long form tax returns, or we won`t believe it!"

    Congrats, guys, you`re the new birthers!
  30. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    Once again, madest can`t admit when he`s wrong. Par for the course

    foolsprussia: Weekly Standard or Financial Times or Wall Street Journal

    Those `credible` enough for you?

    Price Waterhouse Coopers is one of the most credible auditors in the world, but I guess that they aren`t `credible` enough for you or madest.
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    When I first submitted this, after one reading, I honestly thought all 20 years of returns were released. If not "publicly" then to election officials.
    My mistake!
    However the sworn document of what`s involved in those returns is easily good enough to put the truth out! And stop liars like Reid in their tracks.
    Some say "Obama and Biden released their taxes" well DUH! They`ve been requird to since... 2006 tax year (elected in 08, plus the previous 2 years).

    K now imagine if Obama released a summary of his birth certificate lol...
    Actually @Tekinette, he did! Obama said he had the actual certificate "in a vault" BUT only released a "scanned copy". It wasn`t even a sword document, or a photocopy, or a look at the "real thing" which he claimed to have.
    THIS is a legally valid document, afaik.
  32. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    Should have used my submission as it showed the actual tax forms.
    Really @DromEd? You can put a link up here, it seems to have been culled from submissions (rightfully so, eh?).

    Romney made "birthers" out of like every democrat. This is like the most hilarious thing in the history of politics.
    I KNOW @elkingo! The MSM was swallowing the Democrat kool-aid, but started choking when they saw this! Now the "spin spin spin" begins!

    "It depends on what your definition of "is" is..." - B.Clinton, noted perjuror.
  33. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:05 pm
    `Those `credible` enough for you?

    Price Waterhouse Coopers is one of the most credible auditors in the world, but I guess that they aren`t `credible` enough for you or madest.`

    I didn`t need you to post those links because I pay attention to the news and I`m aware of what his campaign did today. My problem is that 5Cats submitted a biased piece of crap rather than submitting a link that would let people make up their own minds.
  34. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36182 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:12 pm
    `
    Romney`s "charitable" deductions don`t really count, he`s mormon.
    Mormons are not asked to tithe, they are required to. The church makes them prove income AND tithes or they lose their spot in heaven.

    But I`m sure he`s hidden money from them as well as the US Gov`ment.
  35. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:13 pm
    FoolsPrussia: It`s no different the `biased piece(s) of crap` liberals here at IAB submit all the time.

    Only this one is right on the money, or the taxes in this case. I`m sorry you had such a tough time `making up (your) own mind` because of the source of this post. I didn`t know you were that mentally disabled, I`ll keep that in mind next time we talk.
  36. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:14 pm
    "My mistake!"

    See was that really that hard? I don`t trust people who can`t admit they were wrong.

    "However the sworn document of what`s involved in those returns is easily good enough to put the truth out! And stop liars like Reid in their tracks."

    Reid did get bitch slapped by this.

    "Some say "Obama and Biden released their taxes" well DUH! They`ve been requird to since... 2006 tax year (elected in 08, plus the previous 2 years)."

    There`s no requirement. There is a only tradition of releasing more than 2 years that was set by Romney`s father who released 12 years of returns. And if you want to stay on the honesty track you could admit that Obama and Biden both released 8 years their first run.
  37. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:23 pm
    The 5 bullet points offered for Romney`s 20 years of returns answered some questions but it raises many others. Especially their use of adjusted gross income instead of total income.

    CNN Money: Romney Full Tax History Still a Mystery

    Don`t expect 5 bullet points to take the air out of the cable news noise machine. The best anyone can do is not watch.
  38. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:37 pm
    markust: The liberal news sources will of course try and spin this story around, they always do.

    They`ll make even more outrageous claims and eventually get caught lying once again. After which they will still be callous and obdurate.

    Don`t get caught chasing shadows here markust, it`s a sworn document and I seriously doubt PWC is going to ruin their global reputation to cover for anyone.
  39. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:41 pm
    "CNN Money: Romney Full Tax History Still a Mystery"

    ""Show us the long form tax returns, or we won`t believe it!"

    Congrats, guys, you`re the new birthers!"

    Lmao
  40. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:52 pm
    `I`m sorry you had such a tough time `making up (your) own mind` because of the source of this post. I didn`t know you were that mentally disabled, I`ll keep that in mind next time we talk.`

    You`re not very good at reading comprehension. I said I keep up with the news so I was already aware of the release. He should be posting a credible, even-handed source for the benefit of everyone here who isn`t aware of the issue.

    I won`t even respond to your insult.
  41. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 9:59 pm
    "The liberal news sources will of course try and spin this story around, they always do."

    I`ll assume you are talking about other news sources like MSNBC who will be spinning this because if you accusing CNN Money/Fortune of being liberal you are a fool.

    I`m going to get out of this post and let you guys gloat. I would.
  42. Profile photo of Xprez
    Xprez Male 30-39
    676 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:04 pm
    Obama donates 1/10% of 1% to charity and Romney averages 16% I believe. But liberals call Romney the bad guy. Liberals will try to spin anything as they will this.
  43. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:23 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Once again, madest can`t admit when he`s wrong. Par for the course"

    Pot calling the kettle black. Let me remind you of our exchange two days ago:

    http://tinyurl.com/cf8lc5s
  44. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:25 pm
    Churches are not charities. They are social clubs.

  45. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:27 pm
    "Obama donates 1/10% of 1% to charity and Romney averages 16% I believe. But liberals call Romney the bad guy. Liberals will try to spin anything as they will this."

    I said gloat not lie. The Obama`s donated 22% ($172,130) to charity in 2011. Link

    Now I`m out. Peace.
  46. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:28 pm
    My problem is that 5Cats submitted a biased piece of crap rather than submitting a link that would let people make up their own minds.
    My my @Fools, that`s a BIG problem you have there! Are you for one second suggesting I should submit some MSM site ONLY? If you want MSM you know where to find it!
    @FoolsPrussia: "If I don`t like it, it`s BIASED! Waaaa"

    Romney`s "charitable" deductions don`t really count, he`s mormon.
    Mormons are not asked to tithe, they are required to.
    @Gerry1: So are Catholics, Muslims and lots of other religions. THEY still get to claim, eh? But Romney didn`t calim all he could have, so what does that mean?
    Also: You`ve been scarce lately! Must be "gettin some" eh? lolz! Or have a real life or something...

    See was that really that hard?
    @markust I was inspired by your politeness :-) It`s true!
    We`re gloating mostly because the MSM is eating crow
  47. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm
    Xprez

    "Obama donates 1/10% of 1% to charity"

    In 2011, he gave 21.8% of his $789,678 adjusted gross income to charity. Now he certainly didn`t give as large of a percentage in his earliest tax returns, but in fairness he was making a household income under $250,000. Living in DC and running in the circles he ran in that is basically minimum wage.

    Romney can afford to give away 16% and still live on the remaining millions. I`m not saying there is anything wrong with that. He deserves his success, more power to him. I`m just saying let`s be fair. It is easier to give more when you have more.
  48. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:34 pm
    He should be posting a credible, even-handed source for the benefit of everyone here who isn`t aware of the issue.
    @FP: Do you honestly IMAGINE that the MSM is "unbiased"? Really?

    Churches are not charities. They are social clubs.
    Ah! TYPICAL Libtardism! Change the rules AFTER the game is over! Right @HG?
    Say, how do YOU know which charities Romney donated to? Or Obama for that matter? Are you just *gasp!* ASSUMING THINGS!

    @markust: C`mon, @Xprez was exaggerating that`s true, but you yourself know that neither Biden NOR Obama come close to the % of Romney over the past 10 or 20 years. Sure ONE year Obama did good, but other years? Not so much. One year Biden donated $370 to charity... need a microscope to register that % eh?
  49. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:38 pm
    FURTHERMORE: Romney`s investments yield the bulk of his income, which are taxed at a different RATE than straight income. It`s the rules! HE didn`t make them!
    So the Capital Gains he gets are taxed at 15% MAXIMUM while other income gets taxed at much higher rates.
    SO: His 14% (or 13% even) `rate` is quite high! In comparison, because of the stupid way the stupid tax system works.

    Since this applies equally to EVERY American equally, it shouldn`t be a "problem" but the MSM milks it for every drop!
  50. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:52 pm
    5Cats

    "Ah! TYPICAL Libtardism! Change the rules AFTER the game is over! Right @HG?"

    What the hell are you talking about. That`s been my opinion on churches since I was old enough to know what they were. It has nothing to do with Romney or Obama or me trying to skew anything.

    Mormons tithe religiously. There are lots of them where I live. According to this: http://tinyurl.com/96fz42f 80% of Romney`s charitable giving in 2009 and 2010 went to the Mormon Church.

    I`m sure Obama gave to church as well. Shouldn`t be tax deductible either in my opinion.

    Have I EVER made a comment about how much Romney pays in taxes? If he games the system legally good for him. That`s not his fault, it is the fault of the people who made the tax law.
  51. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 10:58 pm
    Shouldn`t be tax deductible either in my opinion.
    You know what should never be "tax deductable" @HG? Political donations!
    In Canada it`s even WORSE! Not only does the Federal Gov`t match donations (with taxpayers money) they give "real" political parties taxpayer`s money for every vote they get! AND people deduct political donations at a higher rate than charity! FFS!

    "real" = themselves, not small, grass-roots parties, eh?

    You guessed it, it`s a sore spot for me...
  52. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 11:29 pm
    5Cats

    "You know what should never be "tax deductable" @HG? Political donations!"

    Agreed. I don`t happen to think ballets and museums should count as tax deductible charitable donations, at least not at the same rate as charities that feed, house, and clothe people. I don`t think hobbies should count as charities.

    I believe the arts are very valuable to a well rounded society, but they are not charitable.

  53. Profile photo of Roland
    Roland Male 30-39
    288 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 11:31 pm
    Wow, this seems like a slightly biased submission. Too bad you have to sift through the political propaganda on this site to get to things worth seeing.
  54. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 21, 2012 at 11:37 pm
    VV True that @HG! Business lunches? Hockey tickets? There`s so many tax exemptions for the uber-rich (& companies) that us poor folks cannot get, it`s sickening!

    @Roland: Welcome to reality! You have to sift through a ton of crap to find a few gems, eh?
  55. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 12:06 am
    5Cats

    "Business lunches? Hockey tickets? There`s so many tax exemptions for the uber-rich (& companies) that us poor folks cannot get, it`s sickening!"

    Whoa whoa whoa. That is a whole new subject. We were talking about charitable giving deductions. Now you are talking about business expense deductions. I have run my own business for 10 years. Without being able to write off business expenses I wouldn`t have been able to make it certain years.
  56. Profile photo of peakingo
    peakingo Male 30-39
    761 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 12:08 am
    What real AMERICAN would buy a veggie corndog at fair?!?!
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 12:14 am
    HG: I wasn`t wrong and you full well know I explained why your link didn`t show the real levels of unemployment, at that time.

    Madest flat-out called Romney a tax cheat.

    The two claims are completely different. It`s one thing to argue over a few percentage points, It`s quite another to slander someone, without proof, and then when caught in the lie, still deny they are wrong.
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 12:25 am
    peakingo: Just because a small sign in the background says "Veggie Dogs" Doesn`t mean that`s what he`s eating. Food stands like that often offer several items on their menu. State fairs are known for their wide variety of unusual food fare.
  59. Profile photo of Jeemo88
    Jeemo88 Male 18-29
    77 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 4:00 am
    You can spin 20 years of numbers any way you want. ESPN does it every day with random stats. Its the four years leading up to 2011 we want to see, not some average taken over 20 years, prepared by some company. What is he so afraid of?
  60. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 5:39 am
    The use of "average" is what`s key here. So, over ten years, for example, I can get a 10% average by paying 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, (oh poo, running for president, better make my records look good over an "average") 100%. Now, please note that I`m not saying that`s what`s been done here, but, utilizing average, to anyone with any math skills, is highly suspect when simply listing individual tax rates over those years would have been much more informative. Averages are highly susceptible to manipulation (or willful misrepresentation of specifics).

    Too, he didn`t "release 20 years of tax returns" (other than 2011), not even close. He released a letter from his accountant. And while that`s fine, and frankly, I don`t give a poo what he paid over the last ten years (provided it was legal, and I`m sure it was), a letter from a paid employee purporting the "truth"? Please.
  61. Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 6:02 am
    There are a lot of middle class Americans that wish they had a 14% effective tax rate...

    I don`t think you should get a tax break for donating money to your church. Am I the only one that thinks that sounds like a ridiculously obvious loophole?
  62. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    339 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 6:06 am
    "There are a lot of middle class Americans that wish they had a 14% effective tax rate..."

    Yes, all those middle class Americans who aren`t aware that that`s exactly what they are paying.
  63. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 6:21 am
    SmagBoy1: The auditor addressed your concern by saying the lowest rate he ever paid was still over "13% in income taxes in each of the last 10 years".

    I guess you missed that part.
  64. Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 6:36 am
    Yes, all those middle class Americans who aren`t aware that that`s exactly what they are paying.

    I suppose we`ll just have to disagree there. I can`t make you be right.
  65. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 6:49 am
    trippyhippy: The capital gains rate is 15% and investments count as `capital gains`, they make up the majority of the Romney`s household income. So reducing a 15% rate to 13% or 14% with deductions is not a huge reduction in their effective rate.

    You may dislike church donations being deductible but it`s settled law that`s held up constitutionally. Taxing church donations was ruled as a tax on churches, even getting a tax credit for paying for faith based school tuition was held to be constitutional.

    "The power to tax is the power to destroy" according to the supreme court and that would violate the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment. Why? Because if a church defaulted on a tax payment that would allow the government to shut down that church, thus violating the divide between church and state.
  66. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    339 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 7:13 am
    "I suppose we`ll just have to disagree there. I can`t make you be right."

    We aren`t disagreeing. You and the Congressional Budget Office are disagreeing. Including all taxes paid to the federal government, the middle quintile of Americans pay an effective rate of 14%.
  67. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 7:23 am
    CrakrJak: The auditor addressed your concern by saying the lowest rate he ever paid was still over "13% in income taxes in each of the last 10 years".

    You are right, Good Sir. I stand corrected. I still don`t understand why the guy can`t just release the returns. You want to be in public office, that`s what you do. But, I`m not going to freak out over it. As I noted in my last post, provided it was legal (and I`m sure it was), I don`t care what he paid. And, to be sure, though I didn`t like it because no one else had been asked to do it, I didn`t understand why Obama didn`t immediately release his birth certificate. You want to serve in public life these days, you need to make that stuff public, right or wrong. So, I don`t understand why he won`t release his forms (except that they likely show that he`s worth a HUGE boatload of money, but that shouldn`t matter), but that`s his right.
  68. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 7:24 am
    As for effective tax rate, it bugs the poo out of me that I pay a higher percentage than Romney (note: I make far, far, far less than he does), but, too, that`s not his fault, and I can`t fault him for that.
  69. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    339 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 7:32 am
    WRT donations being tax deductable, remember that this isn`t a scheme that makes the donor better off. If I donate $100 to charity and deduct it from my taxes, I pay (for example) $25 less taxes. I`m not better off by $25. I`m worse off by $75. IOW, if I were greedy I wouldn`t be donating at all.
  70. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 8:56 am
    Well, AntEconomist, that depends *entirely* on to whom/what you`re donating. If, for example, you`re donating to the church of LDS, you can rest assured that they`re going to be spending bucket loads of money and mobilizing truckloads of people to help you run for president. So, not *all* altruism is equal--some has a considerable ROI when compared to other types.
  71. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    339 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 9:26 am
    @SmagBoy: That`s not correct. As with any non-profit church, LDS is prohibited from using its money in support of political candidates. If they were to do so, they`d lose their tax exempt status and then donations to them would not be tax deductible.
  72. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 9:32 am
    @AntEconomist is correct.
    ZoNation Explains Why
    Of course when Obama commands Blacks to rally and support him, that`s OK, eh? But heaven forbid any group should support Romney, ever!
  73. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 9:36 am
    AntEconomist, please understand that I hear you. And understand the law, but, that`s not the reality. That link is just one of the dozens of similar stories, with specific information. I`m not anti-Mormon, or anti-Mitt, but, I *do* know some of what they do with their money.

    Further, in an unrelated issue, see "Pulpit Freedom Sunday" which priests and preachers have been doing for at least eight years now, about a month before the election, where hundreds of them tell their congregations exactly how they`re expected to vote. Just google that term--far too many stories to link to here.

    Again, not challenging you, just explaining reality versus the written law.
  74. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 9:40 am
    5Cats, I`m not arguing with you, either. I realize that it`s supposedly against the law. That`s just not the reality, though.

    As for Obama encouraging blacks to get out and vote, last I heard, blacks aren`t a specific religious group. Too, he also encourages Latinos to get out and vote. And Autoworkers, and miners, and college students. Pretty sure they`r not a religion, either. Again, not arguing with you, just pointing out that, sure, he asks lots of voting groups to vote for him! And, too, I`m sure that some churches encourage their members to vote for him, too! I`m just as against that as I am churches encouraging votes for Romney.
  75. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 10:16 am
    The lowest rate of 13% the Romney`s have paid in income tax in the last 10 years was against adjusted gross income, which is how taxes work but they didn`t list what their adjusted gross income was. Loopholes and off shore accounts could have brought their adjusted gross income down to $100, which 13% would be $13. Yes that number is ridiculously low but I did it for the ease of math and to prove a point - if you don`t show what the adjusted gross income was the percentages are meaningless. I`m just pointing out that this debate is far from over. The 1000 foot report they offered of overall percentage totals for the last 20 years raises more questions than answers. Still Harry Reid needs to apologize.
  76. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 10:34 am
    So it takes a leaked video for Romney to reveal some run-of-the-mill tax returns? Real integrity in this election.
  77. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 10:38 am
    Why not everyone pay the same tax rate? That way the liberals can quit whining about the ridiculous privileges rich folk get.
  78. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1038 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 10:49 am
    Well no poo...I have no doubt that the `investors` in the Romney administration would have a hard time letting something like that slip by. Im slightly more curious as to what charities he invested in and where the dividing line between campaign funding and personal contributions/income is drawn.

    Maybe its just the media im subjected to but I see more and more scandalous behavior around the republicans but almost none about the democrats. I dont get a vote but so far ive been given more reasons not to vote for the republicans than I have reasons to vote for either. Messed up politics.
  79. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 10:58 am
    @Cajun247: I think the Romney camp realized that, at some point, they were going to get into "big trouble" and decided to hang onto the returns as a safety net. Now that "big trouble" has arrived, he can use the tax returns to "level the playing field" by attacking liberals for being hate-mongerers running a baseless slander campaign (rather than promoting their own agenda). I expect to see such propaganda showing up soon...

    Also, if not a flat tax, then a flat tax rate would be best (on spending instead of income). Actually, reverting to the old system when only states collect individual taxes (and directly pay the federal government) would be best in my opinion. In that way, states would be free to collect taxes as they see fit.
  80. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1038 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 11:00 am
    "Why not everyone pay the same tax rate? That way the liberals can quit whining about the ridiculous privileges rich folk get."

    why not a proggressive tax rate? first 50k of earnings pays 10%, next 30k is 20% and next 20k is 25 (for example a total of 16k on 100k income)... past the basic priveledge for the standard of comfortable living..pay more to earn more.
  81. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    Cajun 247

    "Why not everyone pay the same tax rate? That way the liberals can quit whining about the ridiculous privileges rich folk get."

    Because someone who makes $20,000 a year needs every penny to survive. If you tax everyone 20%, they have to live off of $16,000 when they could barely make it on $20,000.

    Now someone who makes $20 Million, when taxed at 20%, keeps $16 Million. Now if they were taxed at 30% they`d still get to keep $14 Million AND that one person`s extra tax would make it so 500 people making $20,000 and barely surviving wouldn`t have to pay any taxes.

    We are talking about someone who is working and contributing to society. Someone that is providing a service. They shouldn`t struggle to survive.

    Anybody should be thrilled to pay 30% that means you have been lucky and successful enough to make that much money.
  82. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 1:02 pm
    Smagboy1: it bugs the poo out of me that I pay a higher percentage than Romney

    I hear ya, that`s why there should be a flat tax. everyone (except the poor) paying the same rate regardless of the source of that income.
  83. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    I`ll be damned, did I just agree with Cajun?
  84. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    HG: I don`t think you`re factoring in the source that income comes from. Because the (long-term) capital gains rate is 15% is much less than the 33% or 35% they`d pay for short term investments or payroll income, most rich people are basically just sitting on their hands letting their money do the earning for them.

    The Bush tax cuts are expiring though, which means next year taxes are going up, regardless of who becomes president.

    Look up `capital gains` on wikipedia to learn more.
  85. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm
    I`ll be damned, did I just agree with Cajun?

    One of the few issues we agree on my friend.

    Also HumanAction that`s what I meant really a flat rate. Though I guess I really didn`t word it well though.

    Why do you think I`d say 20% HG? Really I was thinking between 6%-10% but I`m also good with a minimum taxable wage so long as there`s a flat tax rate.
  86. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    @CrakrJak: I hear ya, that`s why there should be a flat tax. everyone (except the poor) paying the same rate regardless of the source of that income.

    Damn, it`s a banner day--I agree with that entirely (although I`d add a caveat about no loopholes, no exemptions)! I do think there should be one exception, as you say, too, for those making less than whatever minimum is decided (i.e. the minimum required to survive plus 10%, or something like that), but, otherwise, I`m all for it, CrakrJak.
  87. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 3:00 pm
    CrakrJak

    "Look up `capital gains` on wikipedia to learn more."

    I know how capital gains works. My family was relatively wealthy. But I don`t see how that changes my statement.

    I think there should be a set tax rate for the amount of money you take in whether it is investment, payroll, or lemonade stands.

    If you make under $50,000 you pay no income taxes. If you make over $30 million you pay 30%. In between it is on a sliding scale.

    That would vastly lower the tax burden on the lower and middle class while sustaining the operating of the government, eliminating budget deficits, and paying down the national debt.

    I think getting to pay taxes should be a privilege that people strive for because it means you have reached a level of success where you can take care of your family, assist your country, and still have plenty left over.
  88. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6183 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    Cajun247

    "I was thinking between 6%-10%"

    Well that could never sustain the operating cost of the government. Obviously you want to lower the operating cost, as do I, but that is a separate conversation and something that takes time.
  89. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 22, 2012 at 3:18 pm
    HG: Actually 15% would sustain the government. Forbes did a study and figured it out. Of course he was talking about eliminating income tax completely and instituting the `flat tax` as a federal sales tax (with an exception for foodstuffs).

  90. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    September 23, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    Hmmm, now if we just get Obama`s college transcripts and a real birth certificate (check the hospitals in Kenya), we`d be all set!

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