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Date: 09/16/12 06:05 PM

108 Responses to Obamanomics 101

  1. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32794 posts
    September 12, 2012 at 8:05 am
    Link: Obamanomics 101 - Andrew Klavan explains, with wit and wisdom, Obama`s economic policies.
  2. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:02 pm
    f()cking idiot...
  3. Profile photo of Barnk
    Barnk Male 30-39
    486 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:15 pm
    Turned it off after the second egregious misquote, only 0:53 in. I`m not a left-winger, but I know propaganda when I see it.
  4. Profile photo of Gauddith
    Gauddith Female 18-29
    231 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:19 pm
    Ineffective solar panels? I`m pretty sure this guy is all kinds of retarded.

    And what, do you think Mitt would do a better job as he tries to mainstream christian laws, and create a religious state. A mormon state? Ever been to Utah?

    No?

    You are better off. Either way, Obama sucks, Mitt sucks so I`m just going to vote for one of the "underdogs".
  5. Profile photo of Mad_Gremlyn
    Mad_Gremlyn Male 30-39
    512 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:23 pm
    Posted by 5braincells, no surprise there.
  6. Profile photo of ExtraCredit
    ExtraCredit Male 50-59
    451 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:30 pm
    Republican wit isn`t funny, and there is no wisdom to found in this clip either. The facts he cites come from his own institute for crying out loud!

    Wingnut sarcasm just isn`t very funny, accurate, or convincing.

    Keep trying 5cats. But this one: FAIL
  7. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2348 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:37 pm
    Of course both parties support Keynesian economics.
  8. Profile photo of neojester12
    neojester12 Male 18-29
    141 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:38 pm
    Obama on free market capitalism:

    "It doesn`t work. It has never worked."
    - Incorrectly quoted. This is from a speech on "trickle-down" economics and cutting taxes and regulations, not free market capitalism.

    Private sector unemployment has risen under Obama:
    Yes.

    A "rising tide" of wealth:
    Has been debunked and argued against so many times that to say it`s untrue would probably be correct, but it`s at the least is incredibly debatable.

    Keynesian economic summary:
    Horses**t. Keynesian economics have both supporters and detractors, but anyone with a brain would realize that it isn`t nearly as simple as this jackoff makes it out to be. It`s simply a call to look at economic principle more closely, and to not be afraid of more government oversight over the private sector.

    Eat a d**k.
  9. Profile photo of normalfreak2
    normalfreak2 Male 18-29
    3878 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:49 pm
    When you start a video trying to debunk Obama`s economic policies with a logically fallacy I simply ignore the rest of the video because it`s obvious you are trying to push an agenda.
  10. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:52 pm
    OMG I recall learning about this in college micro/macro economics. Now I get it LOL
  11. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:55 pm
    "Ineffective solar panels? "

    solyndra abound solar
  12. Profile photo of kree_
    kree_ Male 30-39
    1013 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:03 pm
    @neojester, There have been plenty of cases where cutting taxes has helped boost a economy. The difference though, is that has been in economies with a high tax rate.
  13. Profile photo of synaw
    synaw Male 18-29
    58 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:07 pm
    5cats you`re from drating Canada how in the hell are you conservative. You live in the wrong dratin` country man. YOU HAVE GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE FOR CHRIST`S SAKE HOW CAN YOU DISLIKE OBAMA.
  14. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3236 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:12 pm
    I believe Ben Bernanke just enacted QE3 or will enact QE3 soon, which should lower unemployment, and increase the amount of credit available to the general public.

    If this works as it should, things will start to look good, but if it does work, of course Obama will get credited with the boost when the bottom line is the federal government has no control over the economy.
  15. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3236 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:19 pm
    So, Gauddith, tell me how effective solar panels are in an area that only gets 60-70 days of sunshine per year.


    I`ll tell you how effective they are... not effective at all.
    Go nuclear.
  16. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:20 pm
    I think @5Cats is just trolling at this point. This video grossly misrepresents actual reality, and is not worth anyone`s time. I hope this is just trolling... I hope..
  17. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    839 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    Free market capitalism only works in systems where information is distributed evenly between both sellers and purchasers. Which...only works in theory, and has NEVER worked in practice. Capitalism with regulation to minimize sellers HIDING important information pertinent to the buyers, and to maximize SAFETY is the only thing that has worked in the past.
  18. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    How to create jobs according to Obamanomics:

    1. Raise taxes on employers (aka, the rich).
    2. Increase cost of hiring (ObamaCare).
    3. Increase regulations (EPA).
    4. Subsidize competitors (cronyism).
    5. Force companies to use overpriced union labor (NLRB).
    6. Prohibit companies from moving where costs are lower (NLRB again).
    7. When it fails, blame Bush!
  19. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 8:37 pm
    After reading all the idiotic liberal posts in this thread, I`m convinced, we are f***ing DOOMED!

    Rush said it best: "We can survive four years of Obama; we cannot survive another four years with a majority who would reelect him."
  20. Profile photo of tatripp
    tatripp Male 18-29
    1196 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:00 pm
    HA. That was funny.
  21. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:01 pm
    5Cats

    I was perfectly content to hear a reasonable argument against Obama`s policies. Unfortunately I heard an innocent quote taken out of context for a thousandth time and then an attempt at a joke that failed miserably. Actually made me cringe it was so bad. Maybe the "wit" and "wisdom" came later, but I couldn`t watch it.
  22. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:04 pm
    OldOllie

    "Rush said it best"

    Oh lord. You listen to Rush and think he is right about everything huh? That explains so much.
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:10 pm
    Ollie is correct about Obamanomics. Obama thinks more government is the solution, when it`s actually the problem.

    DuckBoy: QE3 is an inflationary time bomb. Two other `QE`s have been offered and banks still haven`t been lending that money. The banks have been sitting on that cash, fearful of the future. When and if they ever do decide to start lending that money, it will devalue the dollar, causing prices to soar, thus inflation.
  24. Profile photo of Lameworld
    Lameworld Male 18-29
    51 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:16 pm
    While the basis of what he is trying to say has some legitimacy, the way he is delivering it is marketed to the completely ignorant and unintelligent.

    Also side note, anyone remember the "Banned Ted Talk." The one where a CEO of a large corporation talks that "the 1%" don`t create jobs..... Corporations used to be something brought around to do specific job then disband. Now corporations have one goal, make a profit. You can`t make a profit buy hiring tons of new employees and paying them a decent wage. Its not being a stingy tool bag, its business, but it comes back to the point that the system creates jobs, not the "1%" or the "rich" or what ever you want to call them.

    500 small businesses employing 10 people is better then one large business employing 500
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:22 pm
    "500 small businesses employing 10 people is better then one large business employing 500"

    Well duh? that`s 5000 jobs vs. 500

    Now one large corporation employing 5000 workers would be an equal comparison in numbers. But large corporations have economic advantages in buying insurance for their workers and can offer other benefits that smaller businesses just can`t.
  26. Profile photo of Lameworld
    Lameworld Male 18-29
    51 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:28 pm
    Also the whole rant and rave about regulations on businesses. I do believe that it should be easier to create a business in the United States but the regulations should be put in place to control the effect on whatever market that business is in. Example Walmart should not be able to come into a town and destroy the small town mom and pop stores already existing there. It was early in the history of the US that monopolies where banned/outlawed/made illegal whatever you want to call it.
  27. Profile photo of Lameworld
    Lameworld Male 18-29
    51 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:36 pm
    @Crakrjak You do have a strong point there with a large corporation`s ability to provide better health care and more benefits.

    But wouldn`t you say that is a flawed system? Why should one person that works at say Walmart have cheaper health care then someone who makes the same amount at a local Supermarket? That idea is discouraging capitalism, telling people "Don`t start your own company and try the American dream, just go work for a big company and skate by"
  28. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4896 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    Propaganda.
  29. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:41 pm
    Lameworld: Walmart isn`t a monopoly, neither is Costco or Target. The same accusations were once made about Sears, JC Penney, Woolworths and others decades ago. The real reason mom and pop stores are closing these days are because their kids don`t want to be in the family business. Those kids go off to college and want to work at the big corporations, to get the benefits those jobs offer. They see their parents stores and service companies as `dead end` jobs.
  30. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1107 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:52 pm
    Seemed like he was over-fluffing his points,Im not buying it..sounded more like a sales pitch at the local used car lot than the sound realistic advice a true car enthusiast would give.
  31. Profile photo of Lameworld
    Lameworld Male 18-29
    51 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:54 pm
    CrakrJak: But isn`t that a flaw!? I mean where is the American Dream? Should people want to go off to college educate themselves and start their own business? I understand that of course things will be easier for someone to just fall into middle management and get easy benefits. Shouldn`t we teach our kids to go beyond the "easy road?" Shouldn`t they be able to push through adversity and thrive? That will make them better people and in turn make the US a better place.

    I will admit my dad owns a small business and now in my mid 20s all I want to do is take it over from him. This wasn`t always the case, not because I wanted some corporate job and a corner office, just simply because I tried it and it didn`t work. Now I would love to take it over for him but that ship has sailed. Don`t count that small business out yet, because there are many people bidding on his share of the business, more mom and pop people that are looking for a good small business to call their Am
  32. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 9:58 pm
    The only role of the federal government in the economy is to ensure and maximize the competitiveness of the marketplace, as well as preventing anybody from breaking the law.

    Do that, and all the other problems solve themselves.
  33. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm
    Lameworld: From what I`ve seen of this new generation, if they do want to start a business they want to be their own, not their parents old business. Going for your own dream, whatever it is, isn`t wrong (as long as it`s legal). It`s a competitive world and many times todays kids aren`t prepared for that kind of competitiveness. Don`t cry `it`s not fair`, because life just isn`t fair. Find a niche an advantage or other invention and the world will come to you.
  34. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 10:18 pm
    5Cats

    I am going to respond to some things. I would like you to respond to each of my points directly.

    1. The video of Obama saying "It doesn`t worked. It has never worked" is following him saying "they say If we just cut more regulations and cut more taxes -- especially for the wealthy -- our economy will grow stronger. Sure, they say, there will be winners and losers. But if the winners do really well, then jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle down to everybody else". Is it not disingenuous to say that he is against free market capitalism and then show that video completely out of context when he was referring to something very specific?

    2. Isn`t it blatantly biased to show a single opinion which happens to be someone who works for the same place this guy does?
  35. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 10:19 pm
    5Cats

    3. He says private sector growth has been stagnant. Is this chart not accurate? http://tinyurl.com/8ot3npl This chart shows significant private sector job growth. All charts I have found show the same. It shows 4.3 million private sector jobs added. It is from the bureau of labor statistics which seems more reputable than a baldy photoshopped image of a factory.

    4. The private sector unemployment chart shown implies that is what has happened under Obama. That chart goes back to 2002. The unemployment rate began rising in Dec 2007 under Bush when it hit 5% for the first time in 2 years. When Obama took office in Jan 2009 the unemployment rate was 8% when Obama took office. It continued to rise, topping out at 10% in Oct 2009. Since then it has gone down slowly but consistently and is currently at 8%, the rate it was when he took office.

    source:
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 10:19 pm
    5Cats

    source: http://tinyurl.com/3gss8qd

    5. If you are complaining about 8% unemployment being high, or even 10% being high please remember that it went from 7% to 11% in Reagan`s first two years in office. I believe you have referred to reagan as the greatest president ever.

    source: http://tinyurl.com/9f4r446
  • Profile photo of PopCap
    PopCap Male 30-39
    730 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm
    The number of people employed does not equal the strength of the economy.

    If the US lost 6 million manufacturing jobs @ $40K/annum to China, and replaces those jobs with 6 million service jobs @ $20K/annum, the job market looks steady, but the economy suffers tremendously. A country has to manufacture to generate wealth. Service jobs do not generate wealth.
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:33 am
    hmm, populistic mumble.. lets counter an argument by making it idiotic. somehow i fail to hear what he sais by his outragiously stupid examples.

    BTW Kapitalism may work, but america hasnt got a kapitalistic system anymore. companies are so big that they demand money from goverment, whilst trying to evade taxes, like general electronics. And the bankings need saving because they gambled with money they didnt even had.
    At the moment the world (western world)is going trough what right oriented politicians the world over call an economic crisis. Only a fw in the world call it a banking crisis and it started becomming clear when fanny mae and freddy mac were let go and allouwed to die, as they would in a kapitalistic system. But with that ,the banks started mistrusting eachother and the western world over, governments needed to bail out their banks.

    Now, i wont say its because those tow banks either, they just fell. how many banks got saved before and after that? sav
  • Profile photo of DingDingDong
    DingDingDong Male 30-39
    1511 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:47 am
    The US does not have to manufacture to generate wealth. And we are not very good at it compared to China. We design it, have it built in China and can still keep 90% of the profits.
    <first-hand experience talking here>
  • Profile photo of paperduck
    paperduck Male 18-29
    1745 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 1:23 am
    This message from Andrew Klavan was brought to you by Brawndo: The Thirst Mutilator!
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 2:34 am
    HG: Those job growth numbers don`t reveal what sort of jobs were `created`. 67 million people are still underemployed. Underemployed means working 20hrs. or less a week. 46.7 million people are on food stamps, a record number.

    I`m sorry but low-wage part time jobs just don`t stack up against full-time well paying jobs.
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:09 am
    CrakrJak

    "46.7 million people are on food stamps, a record number"

    Not sure what that has to do with this particular discussion, but I`ll chime in. According to the department of agriculture 47 percent of food stamp beneficiaries are children under 18. 41 percent of beneficiaries are from a working household. People are not on food stamps because Obama is a socialist. They`re on food stamps because the economy is rough on a lot of people. We can argue over who`s fault that is, but it doesn`t matter. Frankly if a few thousand kids get to eat dinner instead of going to bed hungry and to pay for it a billionaire`s taxes go up .2% and he has to opt for the 220 ft yacht instead of the 250 ft, I`m OK with it.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:23 am
    HG: it shows that a lot of people, even when employed, are making so little money that they still qualify to receive food stamps, or SNAP as it`s called now. Thus the job quality statement I made below.

    By the way, when that billionaire decides not to build that 250ft yacht, that ends up putting many people out of work and on assistance, making the problem worse, not better.
  • Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:30 am
    Gotta love all the republican propaganda in this thread. I guess those who vote for a republican government conveniently forget about past history.
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:37 am
    ok, so basicly, if i understand you right, CJ, because the billionaire decides to get a 250 instead of a 270 ft yacht peeps lose their job?
    i am sorry, but thats not true it will take the same ammount of peeps to build a 250 boat as it would cost to build a 270.. now subcontracts, like material delivery may lose out a bit, but still not enough to pay for a whole person. the taxes tehy would normaly pay would.. funny enough, part of the problem is that rich people dont need to spend their money cause, well, they dont have to. no law tells them to get anything.. so that 250 or 270 ft boat probably isnt made in the us anyway, so it doesnt make a difference.
    you may think socialism to be a curseword but basicly, what goes around comes around but stuff doesnt go around anymore, its being hoarded. In this case wealth. and because some can hoard it, a lot feel the sting of not having it. I wish it was as simple of taking a slightly smaller boat or paying a bit more taxes.
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:42 am
    the problem however runs way deeper. it comes down to people that cant rub two pennies together but still defend it cause they dont want to live in communistic russia. And thats where the doctrine kinda goes wrong, socialism isnt communism and kapitalism isnt gods gift to the the underclasses. if you are a have not, you can upgrade to become a have, but that is not an easy task and most people wont. with most i can easily say +99%. hell, i can name any number that stays rougly under 100 but above 99% it doesnt matter really. but as long as the have nots defend the have`s, guess what, it isnt gonna change. So do keep defending those that dont care about the lower class and middle class and basicly anyone that isnt them, know this how ever. Most of them wont do the same for you.
  • Profile photo of New_Guy
    New_Guy Male 30-39
    406 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:48 am
    pretty one sided... not to say he doesn`t have some good points but he never really goes in depth and more or less tries to entertain his way out of bring his points home. Some of the points he is trying to make seem very bought and payed for.
  • Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3282 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:58 am
    I hate when people take one thing out of a speech and use it against the person. Obama wasn`t taking about a free market when he said it didn`t work. He was talking about trickle down economics.

    He may be wrong about that. He may be right. I`m not arguing for or against him. But against someone who took part of a speech and manipulated it against him.
  • Profile photo of bex753
    bex753 Male 40-49
    221 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 4:02 am
    making a video about something obama never said "whats wrong with that" Obama2012
  • Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 4:16 am
    This guy is an idiot.

    In his defense, so are all politicians.

    And people that vote for any of them...
  • Profile photo of Tekinette
    Tekinette Male 30-39
    273 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 4:17 am
    The new challenge is to find a video that disagrees with Obama without misquoting him, lying or ignoring obvious facts !
  • Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 4:39 am
    Actually, the majority of the speech revolved around this phrase:
    "If you`ve been successful you didn`t get there on your own"

    And I can agree with that completely.
  • Profile photo of gigs1890
    gigs1890 Male 18-29
    32 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 5:11 am
    iab, i really hope you were being sarcastic when you said `wit and wisdom`. that was awful on just about every level.
  • Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 5:20 am
    How do they think the society works without taxes? Who will pay for infrastructure, who will take care of the sick and poor who will die without our help. Companies? Yeah, they are prone to do altruistic work. When a company sees a homeless man in the street, it`ll buy him a lunch, right?

    If you start calculating everything in money, individual humanbeing is worth less than a robot. Free will is dangerous and unpredictable, it`ll riot and revolt, people get sick and injure them selves, they get old and die. Very inconvenient when trying to make steady profit.. No, not steady, that`s abomination now a days. It`ll need to GROW forever.

    If left without a tight leash, companies WILL use childlabor, throwh H&S out the door, no health coverage, it`s much cheaper to take a new worker instead, no pensions since why the hell would they care about someone not working for their profit?
  • Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 5:22 am
    1000 full.. just a quick end note.. It was just one sentence, out of context. Does any have the sentences before and after what POTUS was actually saying in that speech?
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 5:54 am


    If it weren`t for society, taxes wouldn`t exist.

    Yeah, they are prone to do altruistic work.

    Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
    Ronald McDonald House Charities
    Then there are golf companies that have golf tournaments for charity.

    It`s good PR just saying.

    Free will is dangerous and unpredictable, it`ll riot and revolt, people get sick and injure them selves, they get old and die.

    It`s not as dangerous as a bloated govt that tries to provide everything for everyone. Govt should stick to protecting people from the trespasses of others
  • Profile photo of Modwain
    Modwain Male 40-49
    336 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 6:29 am
    it is good publicity so worth money, and it is worth good money on taxreturns too. they may do great work, i wont argue that, but i will argue that they do it out of their heart.
  • Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 6:42 am
    I love when people blame the president for all the wrong-doings in the country. It`s so fun to point fingers.
    It was more fun, of course, to point fingers at Bush. Weeeee.
  • Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:07 am
    All of you railing against this video and against Capitalism in general forget that it was individuals that cleared the forests and built the towns and roads long before there was a government to build them. The only time the government got involved in building them is after they had taken the money away from those who had already built up this country so the politicians could take their cut.

    To all Non-Americans posting this: Have a seat on the STFU couch. Your opinion doesn`t matter when it comes to American politics and economic policy. No-one ever said your country has to trade with the U.S.A. If you don`t like what we do, the only appropriate form of dissent is to not participate in it a produce your own products or get them from somewhere else.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:26 am
    it was individuals that cleared the forests and built the towns and roads long before there was a government to build them.
    Source? Because I`m fairly sure the colonies were originally part of British government (or monarchy, whatever).

    ...after they had taken the money away from those who had already built up this country...
    orly? So I guess all those people printed the money that they were paid and fashioned the coins they used in a system of commerce then?
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:30 am
    @CreamK: I understand what you are trying to get at, and while it is very well intentioned, I do not agree with you.

    First off, it must be acknowledged that companies seek to attract those best-suited to increase profit. This is especially true in "skilled" fields, since each individual has a greater impact on the total profit.

    How then do companies attract desirable employees in lieu of competitive offers? The only option for the attractor is provide higher compensation.

    So, what does this suggest? This means that those who perform best get the best offers while those that perform worst get the worst offers. To me, this seems to be the fairest of methods; the only people not in favor of this are those who perform particularly poorly in their respective fields.

    Why would we want a system that encourages them by detracting from their better-suited counterparts?
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:47 am
    @HA: While a cogent argument, it only really works for jobs that require a certain amount of skill, and there are many, many repetitive mindless jobs that don`t require any skill beyond the increased experience gained from doing said repetitive labour day-in and day-out. In these cases, hiring illegals, children, etc. would only be good business; it`s why sweatshops exist.
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32794 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:56 am
    do you think Mitt would do a better job as he tries to mainstream christian laws, and create a religious state.
    @Gauddith: Where have I heard that before... oh yeah! JFK was going to make Americans bow to the Pope! Since, you know, he was Catholic. Y`all are a bigot.

    @HolyGod: #1: No. Obama is indeed opposed to capitalism. Look at his DEEDS they speak louder than his words.
    #2: Bias? Klavan is not a "journalist" so he`s FREE to be as biased as he likes! Do you demand that Nacy Pelosi be "unbiased" too?
    #3: Speaking of BIASED this chart is pure poo-poo! It`s from the Democrat Party HQ ffs! You WHINE about a free citizen`s bias but turn a blind eye to your own.
    #4 & #5: AVERAGE for Bush = 5% (very apx) AVERAGE for Obama = 8%+ You`re comparing "spikes" to long term trends while "cherry picking" numbers.
    Obama CAMPAIGNED on fixing the economy and NEVER letting unemployment rise! ffs.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:05 am
    Because I`m fairly sure the colonies were originally part of British government (or monarchy, whatever).

    Irrelevant, the colonists did not need the crown`s money to cut down the trees and build the houses.

    many repetitive mindless jobs that don`t require any skill beyond the increased experience gained from doing said repetitive labour day-in and day-out

    Just because a group of people aren`t skilled doesn`t mean that some workers are reliable while others aren`t. Thus those who prove themselves to be reliable are eventually paid more.
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32794 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:07 am
    Th ONLY reason "unemployment" isn`t over 10% is that they don`t count those who`ve used up all their unemployment or taken a part-time, low paying job just to survive.
    ACTUAL people out of work in America is over 10%, not 5% like under Bush.

    Gotta love all the republican propaganda in this thread.
    @tedgp: Gotta love how ONLY ONE Demotard has even ATTEMPTED to discuss the actual facts! The rest of y`all just sling insults and run for cover.
    Or complain about "bias" as if you knew what that word means...
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:17 am
    the colonists did not need the crown`s money to cut down the trees and build the houses.
    By that logic they didn`t need the crown`s money to sail over here, or their military to defend against the French and Indians (a war which the colonies started btw).

    Thus those who prove themselves to be reliable are eventually paid more.
    Have you ever heard of sweatshops before? I doubt a raise in pay of a couple of cents a day would mean too much, and that`s assuming they`d give even that. It`s just a fact that left to their own devices, corporations will exploit the cheapest labour possible, and have no qualms about farming out labour to overseas manufacturers with a blind eye turned to conditions for workers. Before unions and laws regulating business there were blatant abuses on workers, 12+hr workdays, etc. It`s the nature of competition in the market: If a business thinks it can get away with something in pursuit of higher profit, then they wi
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:20 am
    @patch: it only really works for jobs that require a certain amount of skill
    I agree; the average compensation for "unskilled" labor would likely vary so little as to be statistically insignificant.

    My first point to make would be that we have systems in place to prevent the abuse of these employees (child labor laws, immigration laws, etc. - though I think they should be handled by the states). My next point would be that they will be compensated "fairly" relative to their skillsets.

    Obviously neither of us suggest that an unskilled laborer should make the same amount as a doctor, but I think we both agree that they should make a fair wage. My argument is that the market would decide what a fair wage should be for their skills. Would you work for $0.50 (purposefully extreme) an hour? Probably not... At some point, people determine that compensation is too low.
  • Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:23 am
    There are so many things to attack Obama on how come the conservative relentlessly use an out of context quote to spin it into something it isn`t. My reaction to this lie is always, They`re still lying about this? Then they distort the lie even further into this bizarre notion that Obama is against Capitalism? I guess lying liars have a hard time not lying.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:26 am
    5Cats is correct, I was a bit wary to even think about voting for a mormon, but Mitt has answered questions about his beliefs satisfactorily and he`s not an evangelist. I hold no more qualms about it now.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:08 am
    @HA: Yes, we do have those laws in place now, and admittedly it would not be easy for a corporation to treat 1st world labour this way...so long as it can be adequately policed, but I`m not sure it could be by the method you describe. The policing of corporations is already deplorable, but for example, how would the states regulate something like the stock market?
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:25 am
    @patchgrabber: Well, let`s look at the FDA for an example on how I would suggest the states police industry. I think we probably all agree that an entity such as the FDA is fairly important and that it might not be a good idea to have 50 different smaller entities.

    What I would recommend then is interstate agreements or regional entities. For example, there could be a Midwest Food and Drug Administration that many states participate in (voluntarily).

    Now, this probably sounds like the same thing as the FDA, so why bother? The point is that any one state can leave - thus providing a "check and balance." If the organization starts to get out of control, states will leave and form a new one; eventually the corrupt organization will loss funding and influence and die off...

    As for the stock market, why would you want to regulate the stock market...?

  • Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:29 am
    @ Patchgrabber

    Then by your argument real wages would rise ONLY when regulaltion requires it. Go back and compare real wages changes vs. changes to regulations including minimum wage. I think you will be surprised. Yes in the extreme company owners will do everything in their power to keep cost down, including "exploiting workers" The best antidote to this is a growing economy that allows for full employment of those seeking work and easy movement from job to job for those seeking a better working situation. In this situation and indeed really only in this situation do wages and benefits go up and "exploitation" down.

  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:30 am
    5Cats

    "this chart is pure poo-poo! It`s from the Democrat Party HQ"

    The data is the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The graphics were put together by the House Democratic Leader. You can find the same data / chart dozens of places. They all look the same, just different designs.

    "AVERAGE for Bush = 5% (very apx) AVERAGE for Obama = 8%+"

    Yes. We weren`t in a recession during Bush`s entire term. Of course his average is going to be better. The point is look at the chart. The unemployment spike we are in right now looks just like the other ones, just like the one that happened on Reagan`s watch.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:33 am
    @HA: That seems like a plausible idea, however if you have some states agreeing and others not, how can you possibly agree on standards? Even something as ostensibly trivial as product labelling can be a nightmare if you have a company that services all 50 states but has to use different labels for 5 or 6 parts of the country, not to mention the individual states that don`t want to be a part of these groups. And that`s just one thing. What about food quality, regulations on testing, etc.? Standardization is good for business.

    As for the stock market, there are things like insider trading and securities fraud that need to be kept in check. Are you for something like the SEC then? Because with the stock market you`d undoubtedly run into jurisdictional conflicts galore if it were left to individual states.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:34 am
    @dang007: So the cure is a good economy? How exactly would one sustain a good economy indefinitely?
  • Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:41 am
    @Patchgrabber: I realize you are at least somewhat literated since you are able to make the posts. Maybe you have someone else writing for you while you ramble.

    However you manage to get your drivel on this website, I am pointing you back to my original comment:

    To all Non-Americans posting this: Have a seat on the STFU couch. Your opinion doesn`t matter when it comes to American politics and economic policy.


    ...



    ...


    Yes, I chose to sinlge you out. Not bweacuse you are unable to provide an intelligent counter-argument but becuase you are Canadian and you chose to engage me directly.

    ....



    ...


    ..


    .


    STFU!
  • Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:44 am
    >@dang007: So the cure is a good economy? How exactly would one sustain a good economy indefinitely?<<

    By using free capital ideals and NOT socialist ideals. Yes regulation is required, but it should be minimal and targeted, and reviewed frequently to see if it can be sunset.
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:46 am
    @patchgrabber: That`s a good point; business thrives on consistency and predictability. Uncertainty is one of the biggest reasons businesses choose to save rather than invest.

    However, I don`t think it would be too big of an issue (obviously I can`t back it up; I don`t think it`s really ever been tried). I just can`t fathom that many states, given the option of joining an existing "agreement" versus creating their own, would choose to make their own system.

    Some would (See: Texas) - not that it`s a bad thing. By refusing to participate, the individual states only hurt themselves as businesses will be more apt to limit or remove interactions with those states.

    I could be wrong or I could be right; I can`t think of a way to prove either case of the top of my head...

    As for the SEC, I`m torn. There are merits to both federal or state regulation. I`ll need to think about it.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:49 am
    @dang007: If you believe that good economies are indefinitely sustainable then you don`t know economics very well. You also provide no evidence for your claim that "free capital ideas" would make everything better. That`s just speculation. If the solution were so obvious, then why do no countries adopt such a policy? Possibly there are downsides to your idea that you fail to consider because there is no real-world example of it to scrutinize.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:52 am
    @insane_ai: A bunch of unsourced ridiculous claims and I`m the one spouting drivel? mmkay.

    I do indeed have a right to criticize your policies, because they either directly or indirectly have consequences for my country. It`s not as if I can tell my government to stop trading with you. So you`ll just have to deal with external criticism like an adult, or in your case, like a petulant child.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:53 am
    @HA: Agreed, I also have no idea if it would work better as you describe. My gut says no, but my logic says sample size is insufficient.
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:13 am
    @patch: Well, here`s where I start to annoy or confuse some people... I don`t necessarily believe that the system I propose would be economically better. I think, if anything, it would be on par or marginally better - nothing to write home about.

    However, I find it to be one of the greatest possible sins to deny a state sovereignty (my own personal feelings - not saying it`s right or wrong for anyone else). I consider it a great injustice if the federal government tells the people of Wisconsin not to drink raw milk. That is the business of Wisconsinites, not all Americans.

    But with this proposed "freedom" comes responsibility. If someone should choose to drink raw milk and becomes ill from Listeria, then that is there problem. The public should not foot the bill in the slightest for your own risky behaviors.

    Just my own, personal assessment of right and wrong.
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:19 am
    @patch: As for the comments by @dang007, what`s being suggested isn`t very likely. There is no such thing as a perpetually well economy.

    In fact, one of the inherent vices of "free market capitalism" is that the economy will suffer from inevitable recessions; this is the nature of a free market. However, the theory is that the market will quickly correct itself independent of government.

    The problem is that people overreact. People look at a recession and say that the system is necessarily broken because a recession has occured. Free market economists try to suggest that, it doesn`t matter who is pulling the strings, recessions will occur. The time elapsed until recovery along with the eventual outcome is the theoretical benefit...

    I happen to agree with the notion... Not that you didn`t already know that :-P
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:22 am
    5Cats is correct, could be the least accurate thing you`ve ever written.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:23 am
    @HA: That`s fine. To each their own then, I suppose. I find nothing wrong with your values as such, you believe them to be of quintessential importance, and the one thing I`ve never thought of you as being, is someone who doesn`t want what`s best for your country. There`s nothing inherently wrong with wanting something different.
  • Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:47 am
    The real problem is taking economic policy advice from a person (such as Klavan here) who doesn`t actually know anything about economics, just like everyone in this thread...
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 10:55 am
    they didn`t need the crown`s money to sail over here, or their military to defend against the French and Indians (a war which the colonies started btw).

    All of which are mutually exclusive of each other, so that`s moot. On top of which, there have been European fisherman up and down the East coast of America long before Columbus.

    Have you ever heard of sweatshops before?

    Yes, and they`re usually established and tolerated in places where the rule of law is lacking/tenuous or to have a successful business one has to be part of a privileged class a la China. That`s what we libertarians are all about, for liberty, rule of law, and against privilege.
  • Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 11:06 am
    1. unsourced ridiculaous drivel? Not. Try elementary school education. Common knowledge. If you need verification, look it up.

    2. You state you can`t tell your country to stop trading with the US. Sorry about your luck genius. The next time I see a label that says made in Canada, I have the choice to pick it up off the shelf or leave it there.

    You opinion still isn`t worth a hill of beans in the US.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 11:55 am
    madest: We never doubt your accuracy madest, because we all know you don`t have any.
  • Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3336 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    i think its said best here
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    My accuracy? Please. You get your accuracy from a Canadian cat lover and an invisible man in the sky. You must first become a viable source of good information before criticizing others "accuracy".
  • Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:23 pm
    Yes, there are philanthropists among the very rich, Bill&Melinda Gates foundation is a good example. Let`s exaggerate and say 5% of them donate money just because they are kind. That will not cut it, corporations are inherently selfish and so far, not to be trusted. There`s a lot evidence of self governing failing big time and very little actually decreasing profits for common good like no.

    About the rest of the world commenting on your internal issues: It affects us, big time. USA takes a hit, the whole world economy crashes. So stop thinking it`s only you living in this world. This thing gets thrown in our faces all the time, whether we want it or not (=not). Just check how much of this sites visitors come outside US and think again, i don`t actively look for news about this.

    You are very welcomed to discuss Finlands national politics by all means. It would be quite beneficial for you guys to study more equal system, you know, a better system by all standards. N
  • Profile photo of Jury1of1
    Jury1of1 Male 30-39
    132 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:35 pm
    What`s even worse than these dumb videos (for or against Obama`s administration) are the brain dead idiotic arguments from the peanut gallery. Just stfu and move on. Nobody cares what you think or is curious about your personal opinions on whatever dumb video was just shown.
  • Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    @insane_ai: Well if axiomatic statements are considered "elementary school education" then I weep for the state of education in your country, as that seems to be as far as you have progressed in that system. Also, it`s not my job to do your homework for you. If you have a source you provide it, since you are making the claim.

    And I also forgot how products are the only thing our countries trade, and those are also the extent to which our relationships go as countries. I mean, it`s not like there are military agreements, natural resource trade or anything like that. Your simplistic understanding of international relations would be funny if it weren`t so sad.
  • Profile photo of themax275
    themax275 Male 30-39
    16 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    As usual, any good points made in the video are jazzed up and mixed in with so much propaganda that it becomes unwatchable. Overplay your point and underplay any evidence to the contrary. It`s no wonder the voters of this nation are so confused.

    Free market capitalism is not the reason we don`t have slave labor. As a zealous right winger he`s required to never say a good thing about the formation of unions and their role in middle class growth and better working conditions.

    He`s also obligated to tell you that unions are what drive business to seek cheaper labor elsewhere, nevermind the fact that we`ve had NAFTA and WTO (both freemarket ideas) that basically handed our manufacturing base overseas.

    People need to stop thinking they are 100% right all the time and realize our problems aren`t rooted in the other side of the aisle.



  • Profile photo of themax275
    themax275 Male 30-39
    16 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:38 pm
    That was supposed to say: China`s inclusion and continued abuse of, the WTO
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32794 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 3:44 pm
    We weren`t in a recession during Bush`s entire term.
    @HG: Excuses! Excuses! Bush had terrorist attacks and wars to (legally!) fight. EVERY PotUS has problems, how has Obama coped? BLAME BUSH! How has he overcome? PLAYED GOLF!
    Promised the Sun but delivered the shade. And y`all want 4 more years of that?

    What about the other 4 points I made to answer your questions? I guess I got those correct eh? :-)
  • Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6740 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    5Cats

    "What about the other 4 points I made to answer your questions?"

    #1. My point was that the quote shown had nothing to do with what it was purported to. Your response had nothing to do with my point, so I ignored it.

    #2 You agreed with me that it was biased, so why would I continue?

    #3 I counter argued your rebuttal and you ignored it.

    #4 and #5 I responded to.

    So what exactly do you mean?
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 6:38 pm
    5Cats, Hate to break it to you, this video is void of "wit".
  • Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 6:51 pm
    @themax275: Actually, both NAFTA and WTO are pro-trade but are not at all pro "free market". A free market system would have zero barriers to trade and would not have legislation regarding trade.

    By instituting a trade agreement with specific entities, those countries that partake automatically become favored while those that do not participate are unfavored.

    It is a nuance, for sure, but this act and organization is not based on free market principles. Both introduce legislation, which by definition is the opposite of free market.
  • Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm
    yea and romney is going to make everything all better right?
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 8:40 pm
    Oh, for f*ck sake 5Cats. This crap again? And yes, I knew it was one of your posts, as soon as I saw the name Andrew Klavan, that right-wing, partisan, journalist hack. Still batting at 100%

    5Cats, it must rile you every day to be living in Canada, with all the blantant socialism, free health care etc. Just move to the US already and join the Romney Campaign. You wanna be cheerleader for US Conservatives? You go, sister!

    I`ll stay put here in Canada, if you don`t mind. There`s a reason that out of all the countries I could have moved to, to live my life, I chose Canada instead of the US.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    Davy: "..poeple like 5Cats and Crakrjak, with their health issues, would be completely shafted under a Conservative government. They`d be on the streets."

    Not true at all, In fact I have been homeless before and it was a private organization, The Salvation Army, that helped me get back on my feet. Despite all the BS rhetoric, Conservatives do not want to dismantle social security, they want to save it so that it will be there for the future.

    Obama has us aimed at the cliff, stomping on the gas, like Thelma and Louise. What will happen to people like me when the government goes bankrupt and can`t pay it`s bills? We`ll be left out in the cold and homeless, because the democrats can`t keep their damn hands out of the government till.
  • Profile photo of VirtualParty
    VirtualParty Male 18-29
    787 posts
    September 18, 2012 at 12:55 am
    When you start out a video with a misquote I won`t watch the rest of your video.
  • Profile photo of keatonatron
    keatonatron Male 18-29
    679 posts
    September 18, 2012 at 7:29 am
    Agreed. You lost me at "Obama said you didn`t build your business".
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32794 posts
    September 18, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    @davymid: Canada IS the best nation on Earth! But that doesn`t mean: A) it will stay that way all by itself B) there aren`t ways to improve it and C) if our US friends go belly-up, we will too!

    Funny thing about freedom @davymid: I`m free to express myself even if y`all liberals would rather I was arrested for saying it.
    Am I exaggerating? Just look at the journalists, professors and other US liberals calling for arrests, deaths even, in the "Innocence" film.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    September 18, 2012 at 9:12 pm
    Not true at all, In fact I have been homeless before and it was a private organization, The Salvation Army, that helped me get back on my feet.
    OK, but I have to ask a question. Not a loaded qestion by any means, but an honest one. I promise I won`t hold it against you.

    The question is this: were you a fervent Christian before the Salvation Army rescued you from your plight? Again I ask, and you`re under no obligation to answer, but did the help from the Salvation Army make you a more devout Christian? Put simply, were you THIS religious when you were facing homelessness?

    Please answer honestly.
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 6:03 am
    Canada is ranked #5 in world economic freedom. Got that way through socialism eh seal clubbers?
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