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Rating: 2.8
Category: Funny
Date: 09/13/12 09:58 AM

143 Responses to Honey, You Didn`t Build That

  1. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:00 am
    Link: Honey, You Didn`t Build That - Obama`s beliefs applied to real life: Gotta redistribute the grades!
  2. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:06 am
    Waay too stupid for words. (Much like 5Cats and the rest of our oh-so lovable neo-con IABer`s!)
  3. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36842 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Nice twist on reality.
    But to be more accurate, if she stole the popsicle sticks from other kids,
    and used the school glue while hiding her allowance in an off-school piggy
    bank, then it would be more accurate.

    Redistribute the Popsicle sticks!
  4. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:09 am
    Hahaa! @chalket is all butt-hurt because Obama`s stupidity is finally exposed!

    It`s not fair that she should get an A+ while others got Fs! A "grade tax" is required to keep poor students from failing...
  5. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:14 am
    the the atlas shrugged speech
    by ann ryan
  6. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:15 am
    To really make the analogy fair, it was a group project and she sat back while everyone else did the research and built the model, and then peeked over her partner`s shoulder to cheat on the test.
  7. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:15 am
    Right on right on.
  8. Profile photo of rickwhite
    rickwhite Male 30-39
    151 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:18 am
    I`m disgusted by the bullish-t this video perpetuates.

    TOTALLY WRONG.
    Completely explains the distorted perspective selfish, greedy, "successful" people have.

    To make a True comparison to the president`s words.. the girl should have a lemonade stand... not build a stupid popsicle stick sculpture.

    And then... when she makes barely enough money to make it worth while, on her OWN, show how Mom & Dad help. Her BFF pitches in.

    NO ONE. EVER. Does it on their own. I have never seen a small business... not even 1, do it all by themselves AND survive. To make it you need help--whether you pay them or not, someone always contributes in some way to another`s success.

    In fact, the video kind-of states that... in a way, although it`s trying to argue against it.
  9. Profile photo of CCMA_19
    CCMA_19 Female 18-29
    311 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:19 am
    Worst 2 minutes and 8 seconds of my life.
  10. Profile photo of Boboda
    Boboda Female 70 & Over
    21 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:19 am
    you owe me 2 minutes of my life back
  11. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:25 am
    No, 5Pussys, I am not butt-hurt in the slightest, I`m just totally sick and tired of the brain-dead twisting of every little thing into this "Us vs Them" "Your Side is Evil, Mine is Not" mentality. That is NOT how to run a country. Your beloved Norquist Teabaggers have crippled our country and our economy by refusing to even consider anything resembling a compromise. And you want to celebrate and perpetuate the insanity. Way to go!
  12. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7064 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:29 am
    The political insight of a ten-year old.
  13. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:32 am
    I think the point Republicans are trying to make is that Obama`s "you didn`t build that" speech was unfair as it unjustly detracts from the extensive efforts made by those who become success "from the gound up."

    Business owners pay taxes - taxes that are meant to quantify their use of public goods. Therefore, the notion that, because a business uses public works, it is partially owned or built by the public is absurd.

    An analogy would be this: let`s say I own a successful coffee shop. By Obama`s logic, part of my success is due to the manufacturer of the paper cups I use (despite the fact that I BOUGHT them). Obviously this is wrong, yet it is the same logic applied to public goods.

    Remember, taxes are SUPPOSED to represent a monetary assessment of the public goods and services we use. Therefore, we OWN that part of the services (same as I OWN the paper cups).
  14. Profile photo of cheeseb
    cheeseb Male 30-39
    257 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:39 am
    Isn`t satire supposed to be an exaggeration, not so spot on accurate?

    I mean, in the poorest parts of the world, they don`t have good roads leading up to their schools, nor do they have good schools that provide free lumber, and if they did, I`m sure they`re putting that wood to good use instead of making phallic symbols. So I don`t really have much sympathy for the kid getting a good old fashioned dose of reality.
  15. Profile photo of ChaosQuad
    ChaosQuad Male 18-29
    2 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:43 am
    (IMB fan. Just sign up to post this comment)

    I refuse to believe that Obama doesn`t understand free market. But him trying to impress far left crowd with this "You didn`t build it" snake oil bullpoo is just dratign pathetic. It doesn`t match his credentials.

    I felt a lot of disgust when I first heard Obama explain his position about who builds what and I am a centered guy (not left and not right). But I also felt a bit of fear. Because this type of "lets redistribute the grades" idea will influence policies that will drat poo up for people on the far right end of the bell curve. And with that most innovation and progress will stall.

    I don`t think the artists and hobos and unskilled labor on the far left will ever be able to pull the weight of true innovation and progress, no matter how much they would like to believe they could. They simply don`t have the IQ or mind set to even begin to comprehend how a gigantic drating system like the U
  16. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:44 am
    rickwhite-"someone always contributes in some way to another`s success."

    It depends on what you mean by `contribute`.

    If I pay someone to build an office building, technically the builders `contributed`. But they got paid for it. And if not for me paying them to build it, they would be out of work.

    The businesses are not dependant on the roads. The roads are dependant on the businesses. Do you REALLY think that the little $5 in taxes you pay when you gas up pays for ANYTHING road related? Think of a business with hundreds of trucks, and the exponentially higher taxes THEY pay. THEY are paying for YOUR roads, not the other way around.
  17. Profile photo of ChaosQuad
    ChaosQuad Male 18-29
    2 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:48 am
    @MeGrendel Agreed. I doubt the far left fan babies have the capability to grasp the complexity of these things.
  18. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:50 am
    this is a really stupid way to look at socialism
  19. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:53 am
    "The businesses are not dependant on the roads. The roads are dependant on the businesses."

    No, they`re dependent on each other. It`s called an interdependent system. To think of it as being unidirectionally causal is naive.
  20. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:55 am
    I have always seen it as the business owner pats themselves on the back saying “I built this company”.
    No you didn`t. You had an idea and money. The workers you hired built this company.

    that what Obama was pointing out.

    remember 5Cats we paid for you to go to school. you can read becuse we helped you.
  21. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:57 am
    Well that was a crock.
  22. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1945 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:57 am
    To make a True comparison to the president`s words.. the girl should have a lemonade stand... not build a stupid popsicle stick sculpture.


    Bad comparison as big brother would send a government agent to shut it down. You see a 10 year old selling lemonade in the front yard is a public health hazard...plus she didn`t get a permit from the city.
  23. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:02 am
    @dm2754: No you didn`t. You had an idea and money. The workers you hired built this company.
    When we started our business (co-owners) our initial investment was less than $1000. We were also both working other full-time jobs in addition to our business.

    Yes, we had a great idea. However, I assure you that nothing short of hard work and dedication from the business owners created this company. So please, explain to me how I didn`t build it.
  24. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:10 am
    Wow.. That was breathtakingly stupid.. I mean monumentally retarded.. Really really mind numbingly stupid.. Built around a soundbite that was taken completely out of context, and then further contorted into this bullcrap..

    But i guess this is better than discussing actual issues... /sarcasm
  25. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:14 am
    Hey Mom and Dad, you didn`t actually EARN your degree right? Because you had to take the roads on a daily basis to get to college.
  26. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:17 am
    I find it funny that a large portion of the Republican campaign platform is built on the idea that their voters don`t have basic reading comprehension skills.
  27. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:17 am
    Built around a soundbite that was taken completely out of context, and then further contorted into this bullcrap..

    This charge is crap, even in its appropriate context the statement completely disregards the effort put forth by the owner. Yes the roads were used, but the roads themselves aren`t going to build the business. It still takes effort of a HUMAN BEING!
  28. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:17 am
    That was funny, but so true to what Obama said.
  29. Profile photo of onoffonoffon
    onoffonoffon Male 30-39
    2382 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:18 am
    Actually, most people do very little. They go to their jobs or the welfare office and do what ever they need to do to get reimbursed for their efforts. It`s the individuals that strike out on their own, to make something for and of themselves that make this country great. If there are are enough people that are great at what the do and they work for the same employer then the company becomes great. If the greatness of employees is diluted by incompetent co-workers(including managers) the company languishes. Most people go out on their own because they are tired of being surrounded by remarkable/unremarkable incompetence.
  30. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:19 am
    All the fact checkers have shown that the "You didn`t build that" which the Republicans are pushing is completely taken out of context. When something is taken out of context and presented as fact that my friends is a lie. So even after they have been proved over and over to be wrong the Republicans continue with this lie. They even dedicated a whole day at the convention to the lie. No wonder Mitt got zero bounce at the convention. Lies have a tendency to catch up to you.
  31. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7064 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:22 am
    HumanAction

    Yes, you built your business and well done. I sincerely hope it will make you financially secure and comfortable. But if it makes you very, very wealthy (and good on you if it does) and you then adopt an attitude of `Screw you, Jack, I`m OK. Nobody helped me so why should I contribute to losers?` (which a lot of the vey wealthy do) then a reminder that your success was made possible by communal effort over generations to create an infrastructure, a system and a technology which allows for business success is not denigrating what you have actually achieved.

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
  32. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:28 am
    markust123-""You didn`t build that" which the Republicans are pushing is completely taken out of context."

    Actually, there are two (2) contexts argued:

    1) `You didn`t build` your business or
    2) `You didn`t build` the roads, infrastructure..etc.

    Either/both is incorrect.

    Just admit it, it`s just another example of how clueless Obama is to business, America and reality in general.

    (and the results of the `fact checkers` depends entirely on who`s payin the checkers)
  33. Profile photo of Justin9235
    Justin9235 Male 18-29
    1582 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:32 am
    Sadly, that little girl was the best actor of the three of them. The actors playing the parents should give up the camera now.
  34. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:35 am
    DON`T dratING TOUCH MY A+ OR I`LL STAB YOU IN THE THROAT
  35. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:35 am
    `Screw you, Jack, I`m OK. Nobody helped me so why should I contribute to losers?`

    NO one is adopting that attitude, rather it`s just that people should be recognized for the investments they made. The investments necessary to acquire property, hire and retain workers. Rather if it weren`t for the investors money NO ONE would`ve helped.
  36. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:36 am
    @HumanAction
    I would have to know more about your company to tell you what you didn`t do to build your company.

    I too work full time as an IT contractor. I did/didn`t build it my self; I use a contracting company to find me contracts.
    And I own a game store. I don`t know any about Warhammer so I hired someone who did. And he help me build my business. Game workshop helps me promote my store. And GW know they need me to help sell their games

    one does it with out help
  37. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:37 am
    I don`t know any about Warhammer so I hired someone who did. And he help me build my business. Game workshop helps me promote my store. And GW know they need me to help sell their games

    Right, and you built that business with your money.
  38. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:40 am
    `(and the results of the `fact checkers` depends entirely on who`s payin the checkers)`

    You guys seem to use this argument a lot. Ok, here`s an example of why you`re wrong. The following is from Factcheck.org that busts the "you didn`t build that" claims:

    Link

    So, Factcheck.org must have a Democratic bias then. Well, here are just a couple articles from them that criticize Obama campaign claims:

    One
    Two
  39. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:41 am
    @Cajun247
    ya that was my point
    I had an idea and money an lots of help.
    Big thanks to my ex-mother in-law. My son. And the kid that cleans the bathroom
  40. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:41 am
    All Obama was saying is we are a community. We all work together. And when we do succeed part of the success is from ourselves and also from the community, and yes the government also plays a part. It`s the same damn speech Mitt Romney gave to the Olympic contenders about how the support of the parents, coaches and community had a hand in their success. "You didn`t build that" is a prime example of how opinion media turns people into mindless parrots.
  41. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:41 am
    cont. @megrendel

    Why must our political system be so immature that people accuse independent organizations of partisan bias just because their presentation of the facts don`t line up with your particular worldview?
  42. Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:45 am
    Oh ffs, not hte stupid drating grades=money analogy. Its not the same. Grades are a personal score, money is not. And she didn`t build it all by herself, but does deserve a higher grade because she used the resources and opportunities available to her better. The government provides the infrastructure, business try to use it as best as they can. Businesses still need to pay tax to cover the cost of that infrastructure. Plus there`s your profits, which are just the monetary value of unpaid labour.

    The only accurate thing in the video was her tantrum.
  43. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:48 am
    Be fair. When Obama said, "You didn`t build that", he was really suggesting that he is not solely responsible for the state of the country after 4 years of his presidency. He wants everyone to feel responsible, to look at him and what he has done, and know that He didn`t build that, we all did.
  44. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:49 am
    F()ck off...
  45. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    Arcval-"Grades are a personal score, money is not"

    Actually it is. If I earn my money, it`s mine. It was not `gifted` by the government.

    Arcval-"The government provides the infrastructure"

    Actually, that is incorrect. It may `oversee` it, but does not provide it.

    Any infrastructure the government oversees is paid for by tax money. The roads are paid for by the taxes on the businesses. The businesses decide where the roads will go.

    The roads follow the business, not the other way around.
  46. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    @dm2754: Oh good; if you`re an IT consultant then I can just tell you what we do.

    We developed a unique backup system that allows us to take advantage of Shadow Copy in realtime. Server data is mirrored to a `duplicate` which mirrors to Amazon S3 (or MS Azure for MSSQL databases).

    We also use a proprietary software to allow us to "simulate" a domain with mobile devices (it works with or without a domain). The software allows us to act as a domain no matter the device (Laptop, Mac, Android phone, iPhone etc...) and no matter the location; all we need is an internet connection.

    We also do consultant work as well as website and application development (we`re currently developing a CMS concept based on the Yii Framework).

    Now, I get that one could argue that we wouldn`t function as we do without Microsoft. However, we BUY their services/products which make them OURS...
  47. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    It`s one thing to disagree with the economic principle Obama was trying to demonstrate. That`s fair, because its your opinion. But to use an obvious distortion of what was said serves only to undermine your own ability to appear as someone whose opinion is worth listening to.

    So, please, if you want to be taken seriously, admit that this is a false line of attack and move on so we can have a reasonable discussion of economic theory.
  48. Profile photo of Palfas
    Palfas Male 30-39
    411 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    Up until the point of the grades, none of it was factually un-true.

    There is no possible way that girl could have built that exact model if some one else hadn`t made the popsicle sticks and transported them to the store on the roads.

    If you think it`s ridiculous or not is your opinion entirely, but you can`t argue with reality (unless you`re a right wing nutjob).
  49. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    Actually... while the video is clearly bullpoo, it is also correct.

    To write the report and build the model the girl had to go to school. Schools built and operated using tax dollars. She is also lucky she is a girl in the USA, and not in Afghanistan, so she can get an education at all. She did the work, she deserves the praise, but only an idiot would argue that she did it all on her own. She didn`t pop out of the womb able to read and write.

    And those who argue against what President Obama said know this as well. To suggest that any business enterprise pops into existence without significant benefit from the government and the community is just stupid. Rmoney, Ryan, the Koch brothers, Trump, and most of the other who are funding poo like this inherited their money, for them to suggest "We built it" is a drating lie.
  50. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    Saying that you are the only one responsible for building your company is a character flaw, it shows insecurity. And that insecurity really comes out when that type of person fails because then it is everyones fault but their own.
  51. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    you have got to be kidding me right? the sad thing is people actualy believe the satirical "point" behind this.
    For those people, i`m not killing you!, i didn`t make this gun, i didn`t make this bullet, i didn`t dig up the lead. i didn`t build the roads, and i didn`t build the cars that.. you get the point right?
  52. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm
    "That was funny, but so true to what Obama said."

    I will give you that in his exact words the statement you made is true, but it is not true when you look at the same exact speeches he gave multiple times before hand. From those you can tell that he left out "alone". Let me ask you this churchy. You have sided with the "I built this myself" camp. Well didn`t God have a part in the individuals success?
  53. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    You, yourself do all the work or does some else do to help you. i.e. do you write your own programs? Do you make sales calls to all the customers? Do all the accounting yourself? Who cleans the bathroom? and where would you be if Bob Dole hadn`t invented the internet. :-)

    You did say you and your Bother… so you didn’t
    do it yourself. :-)

    Are you haring?
  54. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    To steer this toward a more reasonable discussion of the economic principle behind it, take the example of a gold miner. Many people would call someone who successfully digs up gold out of the land a self-made man. And it`s true that he is. But the gold was given a value by the consumers. Otherwise he`s just digging up just a yellow rock. So, he owes a debt to those individuals, and he pays it by participating in a system that provides stability, such as roads and bridges, security in the form of police and fire departments, and teachers who provide an educational base so that consumers will be able to get a good job to provide for themselves so that they will be able to afford the products that his mine helps produce.

    If you disagree with that, okay then. But don`t hide behind a distortion.
  55. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    "NO ONE. EVER. Does it on their own. I have never seen a small business... not even 1, do it all by themselves AND survive."

    Walmart.
  56. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:46 pm
    @dm2754: I do *most* of the programming.

    Our client-interaction model is a bit different. Each one of us is "responsible" for the accounts we attract. Therefore, we are all responsible for finding new clients and interacting with our current clients (in this way the client has a consistent contact). We are also all responsible for handling our own accounting, though each "piece" integrates into the company system.

    Essentially, we all act as independent units, though we have each other (since we are experts in various topics) as support. In addition, we are a member-based company, meaning that we all have a stake in the performance of the business.

    If the business is extremely successful during some span of time, then so are the members (employees).

    As for my brother, touche! The point I was making is that all of these services that "we didn`t build" we paid for.
  57. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:50 pm
    @auburnjunky
    That post was worse then ledzeppeloyd post ormervviscious post .

    Wallmart used a LOT of help. Bank loans, tax incentives, and the list goes on and on
  58. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    @HumanAction
    it cames back to what MeGrendel said “It depends on what you mean by `contribute`.”

    Sounds like you started something great and built it with a lot of help. be sure to tell your members thanks.
  59. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    @dm2754: Here`s the problem with that though: the members are now owners of the business as well (that`s what being a member is). Literally, they own a percentage of the business.

    So in this case, yes, the business owners did build it.

    Even if we had typical employee`s, I find it ridiculous to suggest that they `helped` build the business. What was their incentive? Do you think they were more concerned with growing the company or getting a paycheck?

    In addition, in a traditional employee relationship, the business BUYS their time; their time becomes property of the business. To suggest that they helped build the business is like suggesting the employees at SOLO (plastic lids) helped build Starbucks.
  60. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:07 pm
    I bet the "I built that camp" are the first to file bankruptcy when their business fails. My second business didn`t succeed but I damn well wasn`t going to file bankruptcy. Why should the government rescue me just because I figured out too late that I don`t know the first thing about marketing.
  61. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1945 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    I bet the "I built that camp" are the first to file bankruptcy when their business fails. My second business didn`t succeed but I damn well wasn`t going to file bankruptcy. Why should the government rescue me just because I figured out too late that I don`t know the first thing about marketing.

    So I guess you thought the GM bail-out was a bad thing.
  62. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    @HumanAction

    Oh now you just being difficult
  63. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3351 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    @DromEd
    the GM bail-out was a good thing for Mexico

    bail-out are communism at its best
  64. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    @DromEd: So I guess you thought the GM bail-out was a bad thing.
    Yes; it was a very bad thing - as were all the bailouts.

    @dm2754: Oh now you just being difficult
    It`s what I do - haha. In all seriousness though, I understand that it is impossible to suggest that any one person is solely responsible for the outcome of a business.

    My entire point though is that, in most of the cases we talk about, business owners aren`t being `helped` so much as they are buying a service/product. Maybe it`s just me, but if I buy a copy of Windows Server 2012 and configure it for a client, I don`t consider Microsoft to have `helped` me on that project.

    To me, the same principle applies to traditional employees and the time they spend working. Furthermore, the same principle also applies to public goods/services as they are paid for in taxes.
  65. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    "So I guess you thought the GM bail-out was a bad thing."

    You mean the one that Romney wanted to let them go bankrupt? See I can twist things out of context too. What I was talking about and the auto bailouts are two completely different things. But way to play the strawman argument.
  66. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7064 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    `The roads follow the business, not the other way around.`

    Well, that may be right in some sense. But during the post WW2 highway building boom the businesses were most certainly following the highways.
  67. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    `The roads follow the business, not the other way around.`

    The city of Seattle (or rather the taxpayers) are going to pay for massive road improvements to an area South of the city so that we can have a basketball team again. Business will pop up all around these new roads and around the new arena.
  68. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1945 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    Of course bail-outs are bad thing my point was I doubt markust123456789 thought it was such even though he seems to state the opposite about himself.
  69. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    @DromEd, not bailing out GM would have sent the nation into a full fledge depression. I don`t think anyone liked anything about the situation we were in. Again what you are stating is a strawman argument that has nothing to do with my original statement.
  70. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:12 pm
    The roads follow the business, not the other way around.
    It`s a chicken and egg argument. Some say roads bring business, yet where do roads come from? Roads are built by businesses and tax dollars. Where do tax dollars come from? People that are employed by businesses.

    The fact of that matter is that they both encourage each other.

    @markust123: not bailing out GM would have sent the nation into a full fledge depression
    Maybe, maybe not. A line of thought exists that suggests that a more successful company would have come in and "bought up" GM`s machinery and laborers. This would be good as the incoming company clearly has a better business model.

    Those people would have lost their jobs, but it would be temporary. The economic and real cost of the bailouts is greater than the temporary spike in unemployment.
  71. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm
    I have a work related 7 bar Pub Crawl to attend. Have fun boys.
  72. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:18 pm
    @Cajun247: even in its appropriate context the statement completely disregards the effort put forth by the owner.

    No, THIS charge is crap. He`s not saying that the efforts of entrepreneurs is irrelevant. All he`s saying is that some part of the success of a business depends on services that the community provides, like roads and water etc. These services provide entrepreneurs with a better opportunity to make a successful business. In that light, it`s only fair that businesses contribute to the maintenance and expansion of the communal infrastructure through a fair tax rate, to afford other entrepreneurs the same opportunities he has been given. That`s the entirety of the point he was making. He`s basically arguing for equal opportunity, not equal result.. Isn`t that the big thing for you right-wingers?

    Somehow it got twisted into this crappy ad.. A disgrace..
  73. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    @Kain1: I am a business owner and I make a modest amount (I`m certainly not rich). Because of the additional self-employment taxes that I owe, my tax rate is just over 40%.

    This means that for every dollar I take home, I pay the government roughly 67 cents. What exactly would you propose is a "fair tax rate"?
  74. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm
    @HumanAction: Obviously a 67% tax rate is ridiculous.. That`s just not right.. Either you aren`t doing you`re taxes right, or the system is screwing you.. Probably a bit of both.. But also, you aren`t what`s wrong with society..
    The real problem is for example a multi billion dollar a year company like GE, that pays 0% in taxes.. That`s also very wrong, and needs to be stopped..

    On a side note, Obama has promised tax cuts for small businesses in his next term..
  75. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm
    @Kain1: It`s not a 67% tax rate, it`s 40%. For example, consider I earn one dollar. This means that I owe $0.40 and "take home" $0.60. This is a ratio of 2/3.

    When we adjust it to a dollar (multiple both by 33.3R), we get 0.67/1.00. This means that a tax rate of 40% yields 67 cents owed per 1 dollar take home pay.

    This is fairly average for a small business owner.
  76. Profile photo of SethDog
    SethDog Male 18-29
    768 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm
    SNOOOOZE More American politics...
  77. Profile photo of Denogginizer
    Denogginizer Male 30-39
    821 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:15 pm
    Kain, they do contribute to the communal infrastructure in the taxes they pay. The more successful the business, the more taxes they pay. The roads didn`t make the business, the business made the roads. As far as O`Bama`s promised tax cuts, you`ll see them the same day he starts farting skittles.
  78. Profile photo of Magickrat
    Magickrat Male 40-49
    535 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:22 pm
    Stupid. Literal attempt at literal humor fails. Literally...
  79. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:39 pm
    `As far as O`Bama`s promised tax cuts, you`ll see them the same day he starts farting skittles.`

    Have you been tasting the rainbow the last few years? Because there`s a good chance he already lowered your taxes during that timespan.
  80. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm
    not bailing out GM would have sent the nation into a full fledge depression

    Whatever shock it would`ve created would`ve been very short lived. On top of which allowing GM to bankrupt/defunct would`ve better for industry above all as their cars weren`t selling very well. Not bailing out GM would`ve allowed Ford, Honda, BMW to sell more of their products to American customers and would`ve forced GM to undergo a proper restructuring.
  81. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:45 pm
    `Whatever shock it would`ve created would`ve been very short lived. On top of which allowing GM to bankrupt/defunct would`ve better for industry above all as their cars weren`t selling very well. Not bailing out GM would`ve allowed Ford, Honda, BMW to sell more of their products to American customers and would`ve forced GM to undergo a proper restructuring.`

    I think you`ve forgotten about all the jobs that would have been lost.
  82. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:49 pm
    Ugh. I barely managed to keep my head from exploding so I could watch that load of tripe to the end.

    All I can say is: typical conservative extremist BS. Taking something that clearly meant one thing out of context, flipping it on its head to mean something completely absurd, and then pretending that that`s what it meant all along.

    (sarcasm)
    Wow. Straw man arguments are so easy to knock down, aren`t they? So much easier than dealing with what Obama ACTUALLY meant. Yeah, let`s make this complete distortion of the facts our primary attack against Obama!
    (/sarcasm)

    Pathetic.

    Mitt Romney has said essentially the same thing Obama said in the past. But hey, why let that stop you from making an a$$ out of yourself by bleating the party line`s falsehoods? Amirite?
  83. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 3:51 pm
    I think you`ve forgotten about all the jobs that would have been lost.

    Nope. Like I said the shock (in this case "unemployment") would`ve been short-term. Other industries/companies would`ve hired those terminated not too long after.
  84. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 4:13 pm
    Out of context? The more context you add from that folksy BS speech, the worse it makes him sound.

    He knows exactly DICK about business. And his foreign policy failures are coming to fruition.
  85. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 4:26 pm
    "Your beloved Norquist Teabaggers..."
    You`re "sick and tired of it" @chalket, and yet you DO IT EVERY SINGLE POST! Yuppers: butt-hurt!

    WORST OF ALL: Obama STOLE that part!
    From Elizabeth Warren! Sept 2011 Right there is the proof!

    Even Hitler "Get`s It"!
    But the Obama-naughts keep flogging that horse, baby!

    @md2754: "remember 5Cats we paid for you to go to school. you can read becuse we helped you."
    No actually, MY GRANDPARENTS paid taxes all their lives to pay for the schools I was educated in, not "the government" ok?
    The gov`t USED TAX money for that purpose, but REAL PEOPLE paid those taxes.
  86. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 4:27 pm
    markust123-" are going to pay for massive road improvements to an area South of the city so that we can have a basketball team again."

    Basketball team = Business. See how that works. Without the Business (i.e. Basketball team), the improvemenst would not have happened.

    Thanks for proving my point.

    The Businesses that pop up around the new road will be taking advantage of the infrastructure created by the Basketball Business.
  87. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    Actually, there are two (2) contexts argued:

    1) `You didn`t build` your business or
    2) `You didn`t build` the roads, infrastructure..etc.

    Either/both is incorrect.
    @MeGrendel: 100% Correct Sir! Although I seriously doubt a single lib-tard will directly address this statement, ever! (I`m still reading from old to new).

    The actors playing the parents...
    @Justin9235: They were acting poorly ON PURPOSE, get it? It`s satire, sheesh!

    DON`T dratING TOUCH MY A+ OR I`LL STAB YOU IN THE THROAT
    @HalfPintRoo: LOLZ! BEST comment EVER!
  88. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 4:49 pm
    "You didn`t build that" is a prime example of how opinion media turns people into mindless parrots.
    @markust: Oh, the irony, it BUUUURNS! (lmao!)
    So you`re saying @dm2754 DID NOT build his own business? So WHY should @dm2754 get ANY of the profits then? It ALL should go to taxes, right?

    @Acrval: "Grades are a personal score, money is not." True, but NOT the way you think: Grades are arbitrary, "given" by a teacher. Money is MINE which I contracted through a job, or investment, to legally aquire! DUH!

    You drive a car? But it isn`t YOUR CAR!
    You drink water? But it isn`t YOUR WATER!
    You eat food? But it isn`t YOUR FOOD!

    Get it yet? Yes it IS MY BUSINESS! MINE ALL MINE!
    And I deserve that A+, not Billy, who got an F...
  89. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 5:03 pm
    On a side note, Obama has promised tax cuts for small businesses in his next term...
    @Kain1: Because he hasn`t had time to pass them in the past 3+ years, eh? Oh of course he`d have to actually SIGN A BUDGET to do that, I forgot.

    I own a 40 acre field. I bought it with money I`ve saved after 3 decades of working.
    I plant strawberries, with my own two hands.
    I hoe the weeds. I pray for rain.
    Come harvest time I hire Joe to help pick the berries. He agrees to an hourly wage for doing so.

    Who owns the berries?

    @HiEv: So, what DID Obama "actually mean" eh?
  90. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 5:13 pm
    It really does take a whole lot of stupid to be a Republican now-a-days.
  91. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1127 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    Overlooking the (metaphorically speaking) the grades that every employee/employer got along the road to her A+ ... If Billy built the road and did a piss poor job he doesnt deserve a share of her `A`,his mark is assigned on the performance of his duties..not hers.

    Now if the frame of mind is to say everyone else got nothing and only Suzy gets the reward...well then yes.. but everyone did....money to spend, families are fed, work hard, take the right steps and succeed.
  92. Profile photo of mykunter
    mykunter Male 40-49
    2424 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 5:53 pm
    Ha, I like this video...

    But seriously, Obama`s "you didn`t build that" is a slap in the face to every hard working, TAX PAYING (key words) citizen of this country. If you weren`t offended then you are probably subsisting off my tax dollars also. Get a job!
  93. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 6:26 pm
    Here is part of the speech where Obama puts it more succinctly:
    The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
    If you disagree with that, then you are crazy, stupid, or lying.

    Your business did not build the roads that allow customers to come from far and wide and also allow you to receive shipments. You didn`t pay a private fire department to be on call, or a private police force to protect you inventory.

    The video misses the point just like most of you in that she doesn`t have to share a grade since the other school kids didn`t contribute, the tax payers did and she will grow up with that education and pay taxes.

    Fox News rots your brain.
  94. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 6:42 pm
    @NottaSpy:

    The actual point continues to elude you my friend. Obviously my business did not build the road outside. However, I am the business owner and I pay taxes. Because of this, I have purchased the service from the public - the monetary quantity that I use the roadway is mine (the road is not mine, just the monetary quantity that I use).

    To claim that the public or the government had a hand in building my business is akin to claiming that SOLO (plastic lids) had a hand in building Starbucks. The sensible person understands that Starbucks bought those lids and now owns them; SOLO no longer has any claim to them or the use/benefit of them. Would you contest this and suggest Starbucks owes SOLO some sort of credit or restitution?

    CNN will rot your brain just as much as Fox News.
  95. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 6:58 pm
    Listen to him ramble on! He`s clearly making a case to TAX MORE. Why? Because "YOU didn`t build that" and therefor you OWE ME!

    @NottaSpy: If it`s roads and infrastructures he`s talking about, why so many references to "the rich" and "taxes"?? WHO do you think paid for the existing stuff? The "poor"? The bottom 50% of America who PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES? Did they pay for it, somehow? Nope!

    Where Obama Got His Speech From
  96. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm
    HumanAction, If what you were trying to convince people of was right, then business would pay taxes based off of how much they use. They would pay more, the more their customers used the roads, and the more they had trucks picking up or dropping off inventory, etc. But that doesn`t happen. You can start a business and pay absolutely ZERO in taxes and still have full use of the infrastructure. Non-profits, churches, start-ups, all get full use of infrastructure. You keep trying to use commodities as an example, and that shows how badly you understand the argument. We are talking infrastructure, not coffee lids or Popsicle sticks.

    5Cats, you are exactly right. The speech is about raising taxes. Why? Because we live in a society where we help each other. Those without get more help than those with. Why? One reason is that we all do better when the poor do better. Don`t believe it? Then your disagreement is with reality. As always.
  97. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm
    Interesting premise, however, using the same analogy, 1/3 of those students would be `born` with an A+. Now, it`s true that 2/3 of the fortune 500 list themselves as `self made` but if you drag up their family`s tax info prior to their being listed on the fortune 500, 80% of those show six figure assets. That hardly seems `self made` even if you turn that million into a billion.
  98. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm
    "The roads didn`t make the business, the business made the roads."

    No, they each contribute to the other. Why is that concept - of the interdependence of government, consumers and business - so difficult for people to grasp and/or communicate? The argument that businesses built roads because they pay taxes can easily be flipped to argue that business owners don`t build businesses - because customers pay for the products/services they offer. That`s obviously ludicrous - because it`s only part of the story.

    The fact of the matter is that government, business and consumers are part of a complex *system* that consists of interdependencies. Money is exchanged for services across all of those interactions.
  99. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    "Interesting premise, however, using the same analogy, 1/3 of those students would be `born` with an A+. Now, it`s true that 2/3 of the fortune 500 list themselves as `self made` but if you drag up their family`s tax info prior to their being listed on the fortune 500, 80% of those show six figure assets. That hardly seems `self made` even if you turn that million into a billion."

    I think you mean seven (figure assets)... but yeah, otherwise true.
  100. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:11 pm
    then business would pay taxes based off of how much they use.
    @NottaSpy: Thanks for your polite reply!
    But they DO pay taxes on "how much they use"!
    The value of the property they use is taxed.
    If they use trucks or cars? The fuel is heaily taxed.
    All the material they bring in to make -whatever- is taxed too!
    The payroll they pay their staff is taxed ffs! On top of the taxes the staff pays!
    So YES! They already pay, but Obama wants MORE! MORE TAXES to pay for... wait, what exactly is Obama spending ONE TRILLION PLUS over income for?
    We have no idea, he hasn`t passed a budget since 2009, in direct violation of the constitution I might add...
    @NottaSpy: do you really believe that taxing "non-profits and churches" could add ONE TRILLION to the taxbase? Really? Um, nope.
    And wouldn`t that violate his (already broken) promise not to tax under 200K?
  101. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:27 pm
    Way to twist my words. I`m not asking for churches or non-profits to pay taxes, merely showing that they do not pay any taxes and they use infrastructure. I built a business that made heavy use of infrastructure and paid quite little in taxes, so I know it is not proportional.

    Just admit that you`ll tow whatever line the anti-liberals feed you, regardless of the truth. I know you know you are lying, because I`ve read your posts. You`ve tipped your hand and you don`t even seem to realize it. There are valid arguments to be made about lower taxes, but nobody is making those arguments because one side is too busy lying their asses off, and the other side doesn`t want to lower taxes.

    BTW, I`m not defending Obama. I think he is a horrible President. But unlike the Republicans in Congress, and Fox News, and the Conservatives in this thread, I don`t need to lie about Obama to find fault with him.
  102. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:42 pm
    @NottaSpy: Each vehicle on the road is taxed based on it`s weight - it`s called a registration.

    You`re insistence in refusing to acknowledge that public services are commodities signifies a lack of understanding.

    Further more, income taxes have a built in mechanism to adjust taxes based on usage: the income tax. Those successful business owners pay more net taxes than everyone else. As the business grows, it consumes more of the public commodities; coincidentally, the taxes paid by the business owners and employees(who will make more as the business grows) increase.

    I`m sure you will fail to understand how usage adjustments are built into the system; at least I can say I did my part.
  103. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 10:48 pm
    @NottaSpy: In addition, there are excise taxes levied on fuel. This is a much truer method to tax usage.

    Despite what you might think, when someone uses the road, chances are they are paying for it via taxation in one manner or another.

    You have registration fees, income taxes, excise taxes and sales taxes. It is truely a pay-as-you-go system.

    Now, if you wanted to argue that it is an unfair system because some individuals are able to pay different rates for the "same product" then that would be a much more reasonable arguement to make. However, this is not what you are currently saying.
  104. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:24 pm
    I have seen major companies pay less taxes than a smaller companies. I have seen small companies make big profits and pay next to nothing in taxes. If your argument held water, then the federal government wouldn`t be spending money on infrastructure, but alas, they do.

    You can`t claim that they "built it" without help since if the infrastructure wasn`t there, they never would have had a business in the first place. Your argument completely falls apart. Without infrastructure, there is no Popsicle company shipping Popsicles, or coffee lid makers shipping coffee lids, and no Starbucks. We`d all be packing up our wagons once a year to sell our grain at the county fair to squeak by another year. I`m sorry, I don`t see entrepreneurs setting up a new business in the middle of nowhere.
  105. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:35 pm
    Kinda pointless trying to debate facts with people who think evolution isn`t real, climate change is a hoax, and God is real.
  106. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:46 pm
    @NottaSpy: You`re still not getting it but that`s OK - I`m happy to help.

    Let`s compare two shipping companies: FedEx and Spee-Dee. Which do you suppose directly and indirectly contributes more taxes used for infrastructure?

    According to your argument, there should be no discernible difference. However, let`s consider which company has more employees; clearly, FedEx does. Now, do you suppose each of those employees pays income taxes?

    So, let`s get this straight for anybody who hasn`t been paying attention. Two companies that provide very similar services directly and indirectly contribute vastly different taxes solely because one is more successful than the other?

    As for your other arguement, which do you suppose came first: business or infrastructure? Surely it was business. I believe you will now understand the error of this particular argument.
  107. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:49 pm
    @NottaSpy: For further information, I am a libertarian with biomedical degrees.

    I understand that evolution is a certainly (though the mechanism is debated), AGW has never been contested by a true scientific panel, and that religion is a matter that can be seperated wholly from these concepts.

    But nice try - really. Typical liberal fashion to attempt to slander anyone they cannot match intellectually.
  108. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:53 pm
    I am drunk as sh*t and you guys sound more retarded than usual. I would think a pub crawl would soften the blow. It`s all blah blah blah my side says this. And blah blah blah my side says this. But all anyone is doing is repeating talking points. Every once in a while a nugget of intelligence comes out of each side but for the most part it`s just a puppet show.
  109. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 13, 2012 at 11:56 pm
    @markust123: Congrats on the night out. If you don`t mind, I`d like to ask: from who am I repeating? I have heard no person other than myself break down and describe the issue the way that I have.

    I assure you, these are unique thoughts.
  110. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:01 am
    Obama is all about `wealth redistribution` and confiscatory taxation. He says his job is `incomplete`, it`s incomplete because he hasn`t been able to push his heavy taxes through on a budget bill. He hasn`t signed a single yearly budget in his whole term in office.

    It`s sad that Obama can`t own up to his mistakes and make amends, he just doubles down on class warfare and divisiveness.

    "I will be held accountable... if I don`t have this done in three years, then there will be a one term proposition" - Barack Obama 2009

    3 years later $6 trillion more in debt, over 8% unemployment, 46.7 million people on food stamps, gasoline prices have doubled, economic growth is stagnating and more Americans have been unemployed longer than ever in our history.

    It`s time we hold him to his own words, make him accountable and a `one term proposition`.
  111. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3926 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:07 am
    I`m going to bite my tongue and wish you all a good night.
  112. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13631 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:16 am
    I find this quite entertaining. The UK is so fecked up with taxes on EVERYTHING, just to pay for immigrants coming over here,and the EU rolling us over. the NHS is overloaded, the population is hitting 70 million, price of a gallon of petrol is hitting £6.30 which as a rough estimate is $9 dollars a gallon, and along with road tax which is extortionate.
    Be afraid!!
  113. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 1:12 am
    Wealth distribution is a good thing and has really nothing to do with this "ad". It promotes equality, equality means happier and more productive people, less sickdays.. Like giving all homeless a house is cheaper then keeping them in streets, health costs per person goes way down with universal healthcare... So if you need to give something back and it creates happiness, why aren`t you giving it then? Because of pure selfishness. If you don`t want to chip in building a greater society, go live in the woods and use none of the infrastructure around you. Because that`s what you get if everyone keeps their wealth 100%, no roads, no hospitals, no schools, no civilization.
  114. Profile photo of SoCal
    SoCal Male 18-29
    650 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 2:18 am
    Im going to agree with Mark...
  115. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 6:35 am
    This made me chuckle, but that`s about it.
  116. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 7:36 am
    CreamK: It`s not fair for people that work hard and become successful to have to pay the freight for those that have never worked a day in their life and expect everything to be handed to them.

    Equality in rights is enshrined in our constitution, Equality in finances is not. What you are talking about is communism, which has been tried by several nations and just makes everyone equally miserable, except for the elite, the political leaders. Communism has failed because there will always be people who want more money and power and willing to do anything to get them.

    Homeless people don`t have jobs, they can`t afford homes, we`ve tried large housing projects in America and they were complete failures. The copper pipes and wiring were stripped out the buildings and became havens for drug trafficking.

    Rich people give a lot more of their income in taxes as well as charity than others, not because they feel guilty but because they really wish to help others.
  117. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:30 am
    NottaSpy-"then business would pay taxes based off of how much they use."

    Actually, they do.

    Take you, and Con-way, Inc.

    If you are an average household, you have 2.28 passenger vehicles, as such your vehicles are taxes as `passenger vehicles`, so if you have even a nice care you probably pay $500-$600 a year in tag taxes.

    Con-way has over 2,600 trucks and 7,000 trailers. Those, of course, are taxed at a higher rate. A conservative etimate is that just for Tags for trucks and trailers, Con-way will pay close to $3 million.

    As far as gas taxes, an average family with 2.28 vehicles will pay ~$650. Con-way, on the other hand, will pay ~$25 million in gas taxes.

    So, who would you say had more to do with building those roads?
  118. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:37 am
    CreamK-"Wealth distribution is a good thing"

    So basically anything you say after this opening statement can be ignored as the ravings of an ignorant fool.

    But let`s play anyway....

    CreamK-"It promotes equality"

    How? Will everyone work `equally` hard? Proven false.

    CreamK-"equality means happier and more productive people"

    Nope, just has two classes. People who will work to earn what they are `allowed`, and not a moment more...and people who will work not at all, as they will get `theirs` anyway.

    CreamK-"Like giving all homeless a house is cheaper then keeping them in streets"

    Totally false statement.

    CreamK-"health costs per person goes way down with universal healthcare"

    Totally false statement.

    CreamK-"it creates happiness"

    Taking peoples earned income does not make them happy. Giving it to others does not make the
  119. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    "CreamK-"health costs per person goes way down with universal healthcare"

    Totally false statement."

    Government funding of health care per person (2004): Canada $US 1,893. US $2,728.
    Source.

    Now this is not to say that switching from your current system TO universal would mean a drop in expenditure per person, but countries that have had universal care for a while consistently have lower cost than your system. So it`s not "Totally false," it`s just not worded properly.
  120. Profile photo of Ozmose
    Ozmose Male 30-39
    448 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    Enjoy your laughs now rich people. Your prices keep going up and my pay doesn`t budge. Just wait till the day I can no longer afford food and shelter for me and the people I love.

    So take note.

    When you look at me you see some poor sucker scraping by on your crap wages.
    When I look at you, I`m doing ballistic calculations in my head.
  121. Profile photo of xelous
    xelous Male 18-29
    2513 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    Ok, you guys are just plain ignorant.

    You did NOT build our roads or infrastructure as Obama was referring to in that quote that everyone demonized(unless you were part of the union construction crew). So his comment was correct, `You didn`t build that!`, talking about taking our taxes to pay for public construction

    But yeah, continue talking out your butt, go ahead. Just makes you look stupid and your breath stink
  122. Profile photo of NNoamfer
    NNoamfer Male 18-29
    1216 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 3:34 pm
    Applied for everyday life? The problem is, that what he said didn`t even apply to such situations in the first place. It`s simplifying. They get paid tax money for certain things, they hire workers to do their jobs. They don`t do it on their own.

    Of and the grade thing, Finland is proving to us that it`s drating stupid. School should not be a place for competition, it should be a place for learning.
  123. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm
    Ozmose-"Enjoy your laughs now rich people. Your prices keep going up and my pay doesn`t budge. Just wait till the day I can no longer afford food and shelter for me and the people I love. When you look at me you see some poor sucker scraping by on your crap wages."

    So, `rich people` made you such a crappy worker that you receive `crap wages`?

    `Rich people` made you such a lousy worker that you do not receive a budge in your pay?

    Exacty how have `rich people` made you where you have no marketable job skill?

    Exactly how is your failure `rich people`s` fault?

    Here`s a clue: Instead of staying home watching TV and swigging beer, try to improve your skills where you can ask for more pay.

    Try asking your boss if there is any training you can volunteer for that will make you a more valuable employee.

    Face it, undoubtably the level of your work is not worth much.
  124. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    NNoamfer-"Of and the grade thing, Finland is proving to us that it`s drating stupid. School should not be a place for competition"

    Grades are not `competition`. The person making an `A` is not competing with the person making a `B`.

    Grades are a marker of your progress. That is all.

    If Grades were a compitition, you`d get rankings like 1st through whatever the class size is, and dictate that only the top 25% passes.

    It`s entirely possible for everyone in a class to pass with straight A`s. That`s not compitiion.

    The entire `you will inhibit Johnny`s individuality if you hurt his self-esteem by giving him a failing grade` crap is pure bullsheet.
  125. Profile photo of MrLill
    MrLill Male 18-29
    371 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 6:10 pm
    This doesn`t really apply to the message they are trying to make. What should represent the message is the number of popsicle sticks used. Maybe if she had 20,000 sticks to use while the kid with the F only had 1 to build with. then check the grades. futhermore to get a higher grade she could give away some posicle sticks she has, which takes from the others, to someone to build it for her and she gets credit. moral of the story shouldn`t be about grades because some people aren`t born with all the tools given to them for the best opportunity.
  126. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 6:10 pm
    Grades are not `competition`. The person making an `A` is not competing with the person making a `B`.

    I doubt that very much, in fact when it comes to college grades ARE a competition. As far as school I`m at is concerned, you can only retake a course if you make a D or worse. So in reality someone could finish his degree with too many C`s and still graduate, but would have a tough time finding a job.
  127. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 6:51 pm
    To clarify, you actually can retake any course at any time. It`s just that a letter grade above a certain threshold prohibits substitution.
  128. Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:27 pm
    @5Cats: "So, what DID Obama `actually mean` eh?"

    You`ve already been told what he actually meant, but since you asked me, I`ll tell you what the White House said. Again.

    Obama said, "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you`ve got a business - you didn`t build that." This was poorly worded, but according to the person who said it, the "that" referred to the "roads and bridges" in the previous sentence, and NOT "business", as so many conservative extremists insist.

    Plenty of people want to simultaneously say that they can read Obama`s mind and therefore know that he didn`t really mean "roads and bridges", while also crowing how stupid their interpretation sounds. However, how stupid it sounds, coming from the well educated Obama, is a strong reason to disbelieve their claim.

    If Republicans want to build a platform on lame distortions of the truth, then they`ll lose any moderate votes.
  129. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:39 pm
    VV @HiEv: Obama said a LOT more than just that! He rambled on and on about it!
    What was the spirit of the message?
    You Didn`t Build Your Own Buisness Without Government Help.
    Therefor you should pay higher taxes.

    Period!

    There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)
    con`t
  130. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:40 pm
    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

    The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

    Video of the key part
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 14, 2012 at 9:42 pm
    "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. - B.H.Obama"

    Complete Text From The White House

    I don`t think the White House itself is a "right-wing" source, OK?
  • Profile photo of Ozmose
    Ozmose Male 30-39
    448 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 1:27 am
    @MrGrendel

    You`ve somehow painted yourself a very complex picture of my life, based little to no information.

    So let`s get this straight. You`ve managed to zero in on my entire work life.

    Without any knowledge of . . .
    Who I am.
    Where I live.
    What I do.
    My level of education.
    My career history.
    Or, any of my personal habits.

    So, now it`s my turn to read into your post.

    You`re either a retarded version of Sherlock Holmes, or you`re simply living up to the stereotype everyone imagines when they read "Male, 40-49, Southern US".

    Know your place.
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 9:04 am
    Cajun247-"As far as school I`m at is concerned, you can only retake a course if you make a D or worse."

    And this is competitive with a person making a B how?

    Ozmose-"You`ve somehow painted yourself a very complex picture of my life, based little to no information."

    I can only go based on what you posted. And based on what you posted it can be deduced that: 1) you work a job with crappy pay & 2) you, for some reason, blame `rich people` for this fact.

    Ozmose-"Know your place."

    Know your responsibilities, and quit blaming your crappy life on `rich people`.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 10:04 am
    And this is competitive with a person making a B how?

    The person with a B would have a higher GPA thus more likely to be employed as opposed to someone who made a D.
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 11:06 am
    @cajun: and how is that the "B" person`s fault? Why should they be punished?

    Grades are like golf: You get a hole in one? (A+) it in no way stops the other "players" from getting a hole in one also! So they triple bogey (F)? YOU should score 3 (B) because of that? NO! You score a 1 and say "that was fortunate" and "all that practice paid off!"

    NOT according to Obama, the "Golfing President" himself!
    HE thinks the foursome should all add their scores together and divide them equally at the end! After all, YOU didn`t build that golf course, or that school, so YOU don`t deserve any higher marks than anyone else.
  • Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6262 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    Cajun247-"The person with a B would have a higher GPA thus more likely to be employed as opposed to someone who made a D. "

    That just means the business world is competitive.

    In the class, the person who made the D was not competing with the person who made the B. Each individuals` score is not dependent on anothers.

    An individual does not have to `beat` another to get a higher score. He/she just must know the subject matter.

    If, in theory, every person can make an A, it`s not compitition.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 3:11 pm
    and how is that the "B" person`s fault? Why should they be punished?

    That`s not what I`m saying at all. I`m saying there`s competition somewhere. But I suppose as MeGrendel puts it that`s just the business world being competitive. No good student should be punished for his good grade while everyone else did pooty.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    September 15, 2012 at 4:05 pm
    If, in theory, every person can make an A, it`s not compitition.

    Yet tie games do occur in sports, yet sport isn`t competition?
  • Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 12:08 am
    @5Cats: What are you, Captain F`ing Obvious here? OF COURSE that wasn`t all that he said, but that particular line is the bit that people keep taking out of context. The same context that you removed when you quoted it yourself!!!

    The idea that we live in a society and we get along with help from each other is nothing new. Mitt Romney has said the same thing.

    As for taxes, hell yeah people need to pay higher taxes! Republicans have been cutting taxes for decades, and have been pushing the US into ruin and debt. Bridges are crumbling, programs that are the building blocks of US strength such as education and research are underfunded, the US National Debt is in the TRILLIONS (~$16 trillion).

    The Republican plan makes things worse by cutting taxes on those who can most easily afford it, while INCREASING taxes on the middle class. That only serves to make the rich richer and the non-rich poorer.
  • Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 12:25 am
    For reference, during and post-WWII, the top marginal individual tax rates were around 90%. In 1964 Kennedy reduced that to 70%. Reagan lowered it to 50% in 1982, and then down to 28% in 1988. He also slashed programs that maintained the US infrastructure. So in a matter of 24 years, the top income tax dropped to under 1/3rd of what it started at.

    Under Clinton we managed to get it up to 39.6%, finally reversing the growth of the US debt, but then Bush Jr. knocked it down to 35% and managed to nearly double the US debt.

    Low taxes sounds nice, but when it`s so low that it leads to an underfunded, debt-ridden, nonfunctional government, then taxes need to be raised.

    And as I pointed out above, we`re still at a small fraction of where the income tax levels have been in the past, and it`s illogical to think we can keep lowering them forever. We need a reasonable level, and that level fluctuates.
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    September 16, 2012 at 7:36 am
    @HiEv: HOW can I take it "out of context" when I LINKED THE WHOLE GODDAMN SPEACH!
    OF COURSE he`s talking about infrastructure and stuff, BUT he`s using it as a call to RAISE TAXES on ALL businesses! Disgusting!

    Oh dear Lord: When the "tax rates" were 90%? There were SO MANY LOOPHOLES you could drive an armoured car through them!
    When rates were lowered, many loopholes were closed!
    As a result, LOWER tax rates INCREASED revenue!
    Rich people now pay A HIGHER PERCENTAGE than they used to! And a higher PROPORTION as well!

    To blame Obama`s 50% INCREASE IN DEFICIT on "tax cuts" is INSANE. Also: Obama continued those cuts, HE SIGNED THEM TOO!
  • Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    5Cats: "HOW can I take it "out of context" when I LINKED THE WHOLE GODDAMN SPEACH!"

    Because when you quoted part of it, you quoted a pronoun, but not the nouns it referred to, which was in the previous sentence!

    It`s like if the quote was, "Steve is an idiot. Bob knows he`s an idiot." and you only quoted, "Bob knows he`s an idiot," without ever referring to Steve, so that the quote makes it look like Bob`s talking about himself!

    At the very least you should have written, "If you`ve got a business -- you didn`t build that (the roads and bridges)." But no, you left out that important context, which is the DEFINITION of taking something out of context!

    And yeah, I must be "insane" for thinking that tax cuts (i.e. decreased revenue) would lead to a deficit. Clearly the two are unrelated. (eyeroll)
  • Profile photo of HiEv
    HiEv Male 40-49
    621 posts
    September 17, 2012 at 6:20 pm
    5Cats: "As a result, LOWER tax rates INCREASED revenue! Rich people now pay A HIGHER PERCENTAGE than they used to!"

    Higher than WHEN? Other than a brief period from the Reagan-Bush Sr. years (1988-1992) the top marginal rate hasn`t been lower since 1931! Currently it`s around half the historical average.

    Clinton`s increased tax rates occur in 1993, and the debt levels off within two years. In 2001 the rapidly shrinking debt reverses due to starting two new wars, drastically increasing government spending. Since then the top tax rate has dropped from 39.6% to 35% and the deficit has more than DOUBLED.

    Oh, and no, we haven`t had higher revenue PER CAPITA. Ignoring the "per capita" part and inflation is dishonest statistics.

    But seriously, how dumb is it to reduce your income and increase your spending AT THE SAME TIME?!? Obama couldn`t even end the tax cuts without the Republicans holding congress hostage.
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