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Date: 09/19/12 06:48 AM

40 Responses to 7,000 Millionaires Paid No Income Taxes In 2011

  1. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 6:48 am
    Link: 7,000 Millionaires Paid No Income Taxes In 2011 - Some rich and hard working people are also not paying income tax.
  2. Profile photo of beternal
    beternal Male 18-29
    2589 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 6:52 am
    Any businessy people care to explain that pie chart?! - that went straight over my head!
  3. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:02 am
    Very simple: they paid no taxes because they had no taxable income. We don`t have a wealth tax, we have an income tax. So the fact that one has a net worth in the millions has no bearing on taxes. Even millionaires can have bad years, especially under this president.

    More important fact to keep in mind: When the government lowers taxes, government revenue goes up. When the government raises taxes, government revenue goes down. Very simple formula, anyone who`s taken Econ 101 knows this. So the question is, do you want the deficit to go down (lower taxes) or do you want the deficit to go up (raise taxes)? The candidates have made it very clear which way they would go, so the choice should be very simple. Yes, we want more debt (vote Obama!) or no, we want less debt (vote Romney!). Very simple.
  4. Profile photo of rubbiten
    rubbiten Male 18-29
    145 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:03 am
    well perhaps 7000 millionares had no income 2011
  5. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3147 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:14 am
    @AvatarJohn: your first point is spot on.
    Your second point is slightly flawed.
    If you made taxes at its absolute lowest, $0, how can there be revenue?
    There has to be taxes, but if you plot government income and taxes on the same Cartesian plane, there is a meeting point.
    That meeting point is the optimum tax rate.

    Now the question is, what is it? Higher than now, or lower than now?
  6. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:23 am
    More important fact to keep in mind: When the government lowers taxes, government revenue goes up. When the government raises taxes, government revenue goes down. Very simple formula, anyone who`s taken Econ 101 knows this.
    Are you talking about the Laffer curve? Your statement fails when it assumes that *any* increase in tax will lower revenue. Also there are specific deficiencies with the Laffer curve, and some studies (source: Malcomson, J (1986). "Some analytics of the laffer curve". Journal of Public Economics 29 (3): 263) have even shown that the curve can continue upwards all the way to 100%. You can`t reduce complicated economics to a simple statement such as you have.
  7. Profile photo of piperfawn
    piperfawn Male 30-39
    4888 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:25 am
    AvatarJohn ahaha, we want more debt (vote Obama!) or no, we want less debt (vote Romney!). As if voting the promises(cause this is what they are) of Romney can lower your debt. Your country debt will never go lower, never. The destiny of your debt is just to grow cause all what you can do is to try to pay a part(not even the totality) of the interests every year, only a part of the interests not the debt in itself. Your debt is so huge that don`t exist any formula to erase it,the only thing you can do is declare banckruptcy but this will be the end of your country and a global change.
  8. Profile photo of HumanAction
    HumanAction Male 18-29
    2357 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:54 am
    In my quick glance at the documents sources, the referenced 7,000 millionaires have a "Cash income level" of more than $1 million annually.

    To me, this indicates that they are beating the system via loopholes or some other method.

    @patchgrabber: Are you talking about the Laffer curve?
    Nice reference to the Laffer curve. Took me a moment to recall it...

    All in all, I STILL don`t get why we don`t use the old system. The federal government tells each state what they owe based on population (for military, post office, etc.) and each state is allowed to gather that revenue however they see fit.

    Isn`t this the most reasonable method or is there something I`m am tragically missing?
  9. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 8:12 am
    Isn`t this the most reasonable method or is there something I`m am tragically missing?

    Of course it`s reasonable but DC has to get the first bite at the apple lest they be `fraid of not getting any bite. You are only entitled to what they deem fit and you`ll always get yours last.
  10. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 8:23 am
    No our debt will decrease. In fact it`s set to take a steep dive at the end of this year if deal isn`t worked out. Afghanistan is winding down and that`ll be 10billion a month saved. TARP is turning a profit, employment is moving in the right direction. All these doom and gloom economic predictions have been going on since Reagan.
    What`s wrong with our system is the privileged are the only ones who have access. They can afford lobbyists to give them tax breaks on their yachts and car elevators. They can afford accountants that know where to hide money from Uncle Sam. They are the problem and we wouldn`t be broke if they paid their fair share.
  11. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 8:33 am
    Not only the millionaires, but any active duty military personnel deployed to combat zones pay no income tax. I guess he forgot about them.
  12. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 8:41 am
    7,000 Millionaires?!?!

    Why those lazy, good for nothing, parasitical, dependent SOBs! Can I get few RW Amens and Hallelujahs up in this b*tch?

    (That is if you don`t really believe that Millionaires and Billionaires dwell on some higher metaphysical ontological plane than the rest of us peasants)?
  13. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 8:48 am
    Depending on which media outlet you wish to believe there are between 3.1 (WSJ) and 5.1 (Time) million people that are `millionaires`.

    So the `Buffet rule` would effect between 0.2% or 0.1% of all the millionaires in America. Yeah, that sounds real effective right there. Besides just how much income would the government actually get if they took a 1/3rd of those 7,000 millionaires yearly income? The answer, Not enough to even cover the costs of the IRS policing such a law nationwide.

    Let`s do some math on it. For argument sake let`s say these 7,000 made $300,000 a year. Take a third of that $100,000 x 7,000 = $700,000,000.

    700 million sounds like a lot doesn`t it? Except the government will have to hire expert tax accountants and other personnel to audit these people and not overwork them too much. 1 CPA per 3.5 cases, plus a secretary, plus clerks, etc..

    About 8-10 thousand government workers. Their average yearly salary is $91,507 = $915,070,000
  14. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 9:03 am
    Evidently we need to hire more IRS workers and sic `em on these 7,000 self righteous greedy douchebags.
  15. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 9:11 am
    madest: Yeah, Let`s loose $218 million dollars in doing so. Typical liberal mindset. Let`s spend $918 million to get $700 million.

    Your credit card company must love you. When`s the last time you didn`t have an overdraft fee madest?
  16. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 9:40 am
    @CrakrJak

    "1 CPA per 3.5 cases"

    Where did you get that figure from?
  17. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36202 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 9:42 am

    My husband pays income tax. But he works with people doing the same job who don`t pay income tax. The difference is deductions, the other worker has four children he can`t afford and gets $1000 per kid deductions.

    So one person chooses not to have children and has to pay out the wahzoo in Taxes while another is too stupid to use a condom and pays nothing.

    We need a flat tax.

  18. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 9:47 am
    Kind of a stupid post since these 7,000 didn`t pay income taxes because they had no income. Still I bet the Romney camp is going into a panic: We just insulted 7,000 members of our base. Reduce that 47% by 7,000. What? 10% of the 47% are retired elderly? Better remove them from the 47%. 54% of the people in the 47% have jobs where federal payroll tax is collected? We better remove them from the 47%. What I, Mitt Romney, was part of the 47% as recent as a few years ago? Definitely take the 7,000 out of there. So what do we have left? An Obama win sir.
  19. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 10:11 am
    @Musuko42, From his ass like every other fact he presents.
  20. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 11:54 am
    Musuko: Forensic CPA work is intensive, especially with the number of deductions it takes to bring a $300,000+ income down to owing zero in taxes. it would take months to investigate all the deductions, interview people, verify expense receipts and then actually do the audit.
  21. Profile photo of sosueme1966
    sosueme1966 Male 40-49
    439 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    So 7,000 millionaires don`t have jobs. Not that hard to believe, what with inheritence and all. I assure you that they still paid a great deal of tax on their investments and property.
  22. Profile photo of chance13
    chance13 Male 40-49
    219 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    A forensic audit is a HUGE undertaking. Especially in a multi-million dollar estate. You have to understand that there are several different types of ways to make 300,000$ of debt disappear...are the assets misappropriated? Is the document fraudulent? Has there been a conflict of interest? Bribery? Simple error? Hidden Assets? ...and that`s just off the top of my head. Imagine how long it would take just to figure out which one of these you`re dealing with...then the actual audit starts.

    Pouring over every account,hedge fund, stock transaction, IRA, sale, purchase, and receipt that a person has accrued over the last year...

    A forensic audit is a HUGE undertaking.
  23. Profile photo of chalket
    chalket Male 50-59
    2712 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 12:26 pm
    All hail CJ! King of making poo up!
  24. Profile photo of Andrew155
    Andrew155 Male 18-29
    2579 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 1:07 pm
    Most of these people don`t have jobs....they just live off the money they made, or inherited. It`s that simple, and there`s nothing wrong with that.

    "Oh why is there nothing wrong with that?", you may ask. Well, since they are rich they are self-sufficient (if not, they should be), so they are, for practical purposes, independent of government support. Thus, they are not a drain on anything. Moreover, since they are fracking rich, they spend A LOT. This is very good and it creates jobs. Finally, they still pay Property taxes and Sales tax. So..............this is really dumb. I mean, for real.

    I guess people want to go all Russian Revolution and take that away.
  25. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    Andy, the rich use roads, bridges, and public transportation the rest of us paid for. They also avail themselves of police, fire, and emergency services the rest of us paid for. And they send their children to public schools to be educated in that the rest of us paid for. But now they refuse to pay for these just like the rest of us?

    Not to mention the government largesse they`re receiving here in this particular moment is the luxury of not pulling their weight becuase they`re supposed to be "creating jobs". Where are these elusive jobs? Where have they been for this entire financial meltdown?

    No private entity is ever going to buy something of public benefit if it doesn`t fulfill their bottom line in some way. There would never be a nat`l highway system or the Hoover dam in this universe.

    And please, knock it off w/ the Commie crap. No one is saying or even remotely implying something so radical is the solution.
  26. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    Mitt Romney is a tax cheat. You can take that to the bank. He`s probably committed voter fraud as well and is why he`d rather throw billionaire investors money away than expose his scheming existence. He`s the problem, people like him. Rich, greedy, douchebags who put money before country. His fortune was made ruining lives. If I was a god fearing man I`d think Mitt was Satan. Jesus`s head would explode over this guy. Clearly he has some people fooled. How I`ll never understand.
  27. Profile photo of TheGuySmiley
    TheGuySmiley Male 18-29
    1243 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    this is why the love for money is destroying that nation. greed at it`s best. It`s happening everywhere too.. thats why the greedy lovers of money don`t make good leaders.
  28. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    Regardless of the numbers you follow, regardless of these people`s status (income or no, whatever), it`s clear that Romney`s claim that 47% of the country, Obama voters, all mooching leeches out to milk dry the hardworking Republicans who are the only people in the country who pay taxes, is so much crapola.
  29. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    chalket: Hardly, Madest here is the absolute king of making sh|t up.

    I don`t have to make anything up, just use some truth, reason and math. Madest just let`s the BS fly, regardless of whether it makes him look like a fool or not.
  30. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 3:09 pm
    Mitt Romney is a tax cheat.
    @madest + dead horse = repeat every post.

    "1 CPA per 3.5 cases"
    Where did you get that figure from?
    A fair question @Musuko42: These would require "forensic audits" which take months if not a year each. Thus the 7,000 cases would ADD enormously to the IRS`s workload.
    History has shown that these in-depth audit produce little IF ANY added income: in fact they tend to find tax savings as often as tax cheatings.
    It`s a fact.
    If it "earned tons of income" don`t you think the IRS would do it WAY more often? Eh?
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 3:13 pm
    @chance13: I see he`s mentioned the "forensic audit" factor! I agree with him!

    Face Facts: These "7,000 millionaires" didn`t DO THEIR OWN TAXES on the kitchen table one weekend! They have WHOLE TEAMS of accountants to do it! Not likely to make a huge mistake that could land their butts in jail, eh? MUCH MORE likely they filled them out as 100% accurately as humanly possible.
  32. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm
    QueenZira you funny. Class envy much.

    Let`s see...the rich use the roads. Yep they do. And sometimes like where I`m from (Delaware) the rich also build the roads. Rt 13 is the DuPont Highway. You see this rich guy came up with this idea for a new type of road that became the template for the first modern highway in the world. He also spent a lot of his own money in the process.

    Where I`m from public schools are paid for via property taxes. So if you own property you`re paying regardless of weather you have kids or not.

    Where I`m from the fire department is funded via donations from the community.

    Public transportation is a user pays as they go sort of deal so yes a rich man has to pay to ride the bus. But let`s face it. Are rich people really taking the bus or the tube?

    And are you really saying that rich people don`t deserve police protection?





  33. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 3:55 pm
    Oh yes I almost forgot. Sometimes the rich build the public schools too. Like 89 of them built in the 20`s that vastly improved education for blacks in Delaware.
  34. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 3:56 pm
    "Community Donations"-also known as taxation. If you don`t like being part of a society or giving back something to the society that allowed you to get as far as you have and give someone else the same shot you had, in short if you can`t handle your responsibility as a citizen, then move out into the woods in your own self built log cabin, make your own clothing, hunt your own food, build your own indoor plumbing and die alone. Otherwise...you know...Communism.

    And furthermore, Americans on the whole don`t really envy anyone their just due, we just get angry when someone else rigs the system to their own advantage.

    And another thing, why is it only called "class warfare" when the rest of us fight back?
  35. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 4:04 pm
    Class warfare? I said, class envy.

    Where did I say I mind giving back to society? I pay my taxes and I donate to charity.

    Face it. You rambled off a bunch of twaddle, I called you on it, knocked your whole post out of the park and now you feel stupid. Go with the feeling.
  36. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 4:06 pm
    Drom you`ve made no substantial points.


    The RW fantasy world you live in just has not ever been real, it is not real today, and it will never be real in the future.
  37. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 4:49 pm
    Funny, CNN says It`s 4,000 in another IAB submission. It`s almost as if they were just making stuff up...

    @QueenZira: @DromEd has you totally pegged! LOLZ!
  38. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 5:03 pm
    Oh yeah, I just remembered the private school I went to grades 9-12 was the beneficiary of duPont money as well. As I recall the man matched every dollar the school raised via donations and tuition. When he died the school died with him. That bastard!
  39. Profile photo of VirtualParty
    VirtualParty Male 18-29
    787 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 6:48 pm
    Drom please take your head out of your ass. Your on the defensive because you feel superiority. Zira is just trying to explain some logical things to you which you plug your ears to.
  40. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1847 posts
    September 19, 2012 at 7:17 pm
    VP, try again after you`ve taken a remedial writing class.

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