Michigan Police Shoot Man Holding Knife 30+ Times

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 4 years ago in

Was this justified? Did he have to die? Can you say overkill? Story in credits link below.
There are 90 comments:
Female 39
I never claimed to be an expert but I am very familiar with policy and procedure as I have been dispatching for 10 years and am married to a 20 year police officer. In those 20 years he has never even fired his duty weapon. Are there bad cops out there? Absolutely! There are bad seeds in every profession you can think of. But the vast majority do the job because they have a desire to make a positive change in their communities. You don`t read the stories about about the good things they do. For example, in the county I work in the officers do fundraisers (on their own time) to raise money for needy kids then take a large group of them to local stores to buy what they need and want for Christmas, for themselves and their families. My husband works his ass off to provide for our family and my only hope at the end of the day is that he comes home in one piece. If that means shooting a knife wielding idiot then so be it. He should have dropped it one of the first 20 times he was told to.
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Male 14,332
Should`ve dropped that knife after they told him about 20 times. Bet there was a black officer there or they`d be carrying this as a hate crime.....
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Male 884
And did I mention that they fired 46 rounds into one man? 23 would have been horrific, 12 unreasonable, 6 overkill but 46 (and probably 47 when they find them all) I am reminded of a thing the UK police did where they all emptied their guns and one had a blank. That way you didn`t know who killed him and nobody had to suffer the remorse.
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Male 884
like this?
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Male 884
Also they had night sticks, they could have been deployed too. It seems fair, 5 people with billy clubs, tasers, pepper spray and quite possibly teargas, beanbag rounds and rubber bullets and semi-automatic weapons and an attack dog against a homeless man with a knife (who had called them), Aren`t cops taught how to use their non-lethal weapons? They certainly seem to do so when unprovoked.
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Male 7,740
Cajun247-" if there truly was nothing prohibiting these officers from carrying tasers, then there are grounds for a manslaughter case (at most)."

Not necessarily:
In April, this police department deployed Tasers on a suspect, which had no effect. After physically subduing the man, he became destressed and eventually died, which was blamed on the Tasers.

Obviously, the man`s family sued the department.

So, the officers would tend to avoid a device that 1) may not work & 2) may get them sued.

Plus, ultimately, it is the officers` call over which weapon is applicable to a particular situation. Part of this decision would be based on this person`s long history of violent behavior to the police.

Hopefully we can see what becomes of this case.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Because you only get one shot out of a Taser and they needed 46 to hit him.[/quote]

Huh, and I thought the boys in blue were better than your typical hollywood stormtrooper. Glad I don`t live there then.
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Male 884
"Actually, no the police were allowed to carry tasers around this time. So why didn`t they bring them?"
Because you only get one shot out of a Taser and they needed 46 to hit him.
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Male 10,855
Then ultimately MeGrendel, if there truly was nothing prohibiting these officers from carrying tasers, then there are grounds for a manslaughter case (at most).
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Male 7,740
Cajun247-"the police were allowed to carry tasers around this time. So why didn`t they bring them?"

Good question. That would have been preferable.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Maybe they didn`t have tasers. Maybe the Police Department was forced to give up their tasers due to a liberal group convincing the city council that tasers are `dangerous` and should be banned (yes, their are such groups).[/quote]


Actually, no the police were allowed to carry tasers around this time. So why didn`t they bring them?
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Male 7,740
Buiadh-" if this is considered the norm."

I did not say it was `the norm`, I even said it was not handled in the best way.

I just pointed out that this was caused by one (1) individual. An individual who was given multiple chances to comply.

Buiadh-"this guy was no tangible threat.`

~1,900 people in the US each year would dissagree with you. (that`s ~ how many are killed by knives.)

Buiadh-"In pretty much every other civilised country in the world this guy would be getting the help that he needs now and no officers would have been harmed either, of that I am 100% sure."

Then you are 25% delusional and 75% ignorant.

Tell that to this guy:

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Female 254
@CreamK

"Just think about it, these cops shot half of the annual bullets fired in Germany.. Out of those 80 bullets per year shot it was somewhere in the range of 5 bullets shot towards target, the rest were warning shots.."

In Germany, civilian deaths by guns (a year) are around 950.
In the US, civilian deaths by guns (a year) are around 31,000.
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Male 1,421
Just think about it, these cops shot half of the annual bullets fired in Germany.. Out of those 80 bullets per year shot it was somewhere in the range of 5 bullets shot towards target, the rest were warning shots..
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Male 1,421
Yup, you don`t see these kinds of encounters ending in such way in any other western countries. Only US executes people in the streets. Either cops in Europe are better or US cops get this attitude of "shoot first, ask questions later" from the superiors, it`s the standard practice. That`s how it looks to us on the outside, get an excuse for straight up execution of handicapped to save government funds.
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Male 6,737
@MeGrendel - I honesty beieve that your police force need retrained then if this is considered the norm.

You say they shoot to kill, not to wound, this guy was no tangible threat. Would they have shot a 5 year old that was holding a knife and was confused by the shouting and screaming by the Nazi-like officers? Awful state of affairs.

As I said. In pretty much every other civilised country in the world this guy would be getting the help that he needs now and no officers would have been harmed either, of that I am 100% sure. Stances like yours is why parts of the US are considered cultural backwaters.
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Male 884
He was close enough to present a mortal danger with a knife. I, and I`m no marksman with a pistol, would have been able to stop him in less than 46 attempts at such close range. Particularly if I had an attack dog and 5 other people on my side to occupy or distract him.
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Male 7,740
gJBMXW3wgU-"MeGrendel, You are a Psycho"

You want to hamstring the cops until AFTER a criminal kills someone, and you call ME `Psycho`?

You want to b!tch that `he didn`t kill anyone`, but had he killed a child you would have been the first to scream `Why didn`t the police stop him?`.

Methinks that no matter what the police did you would have screamed `Damn Pigs!`.

gJBMXW3wgU-"People like you should not be able to buy a gun."

People like you should not be allowed to breed.

@tiago99f

Inability to offer a rational argument duly noted.
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Male 2
MeGrendel is the kind of Ass***** who voted for Bush and Sarah Palin. You`re an idiot.
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Male 10
MeGrendel, You are a Psycho. People like you should not be able to buy a gun.
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Male 7,740
gJBMXW3wgU-"Yes, but he did not kill anybody."

And the reason he was not able to kill anyone was probably due to the police ending his madness.

And you continue to insist that the police should wait until he DOES kill someone before they act? That`s asanine.

gJBMXW3wgU-"He could easily been Tased."

Maybe they didn`t have tasers. Maybe the Police Department was forced to give up their tasers due to a liberal group convincing the city council that tasers are `dangerous` and should be banned (yes, their are such groups).

An-egg-"one well placed bullet would have stopped him"

And a badly-placed bullet would leave him the ability to strike. If we hired only pistol-sharpshooters to the police force you`d have to fired 99%.

A regular policeman `shooting through the `X` ring` from 70 feet only happens in movies. Movies in no way resemble real life.
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Male 884
Clearly they don`t get shooting lessons either, one well placed bullet would have stopped him, and they took 46.
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Male 10
Yes, but he did not kill anybody. He could easily been Tased. Yes, I hope my grandchildren are smarter than me, but that has nothing to do with this case. Plus, my grandchildren are good runners.
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Male 7,740
gJBMXW3wgU-"He did not kill anybody. If the guy killed my granddaughter...."

So you`re okay with your granddaughter being killed as long as this maniac was given the benefit of the doubt and treated with kids gloves first?

So, basically, you think the officers should not be able to take action until someone is killed, even if the person is related to you?

Because, of course, the maniac could have been advancing on your granddaughter with a knife to cut the tag off of her new bonnet....

So, the sad part of this conversation is the fact that you procreated. I hope to God that they are smarter than you.
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Male 10
He did not kill anybody. If the guy killed my granddaughter, then the appropriate punishment will follow. If he killed my granddaughter, I might kill him myself, but he did not kill anybody. He could easily been subdued with a Taser. Just because it is easy for police officers to shoot a person, than to wrestle him, does not mean the police officers should shoot anybody who is being difficult. This shows how insensitive the police force has become toward a person’s life.
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Male 7,740
gJBMXW3wgU-"IIf you can¡¯t even defend a knife attack, you f***ing p**** then go learn some Tae Kwan Do."

We do not pay our officers to learn Tae Kwan Do. Nor or they paid enough money to needlessly put their lives in danger by wrestling with an armed maniac.

They did defend a knife attack, with superior firepower. He was given REPEATED chances to stand down. He didn`t do so. His stupidity.

gJBMXW3wgU-"Who the f*** are you to kill somebody because they just got a knife?"

Had the police not shot, and this man immediately knifed your granddaughter to death, you`d be the first to yell, `WHY DIDN`T YOU STOP HIM?!?!?!"

JoexBro-"That man was walking away from the officers"

And walking TOWARD other officers...carrying a knife in a threatening manner and being beligerent.

In the south, that`s what we call suicide.

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Male 10
If you can¡¯t even defend a knife attack, you f***ing p**** then go learn some Tae Kwan Do.


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Male 10
This is absolutely ridiculous. Even the most notorious criminals sometimes get away with a death penalty. Who the f*** are you to kill somebody because they just got a knife? American police force is a bunch of bullies. Guns should be outlawed!
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Male 557
@CC911, just because you work as a dispatcher, doesnt make you an expert on the psychological minds of a police officer. That man was walking away from the officers when he was overkilled. Not one shot should have even been fired. Police State, 50 years, youll be free no more unless something is done now. 90% of officers also don`t even work in the towns/cities they live in. I have also never been arrested.
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Female 254
@MeGrendel

Well said sir.
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Female 39
Again, police officers are paid to protect the public but also have families to go home to themselves. They are not trained to injure someone, it is shoot to kill. In this case, they have a man armed with a knife that ignored repeated commands to drop the weapon. He was also unaffected by threats to let a dog loose. This did not have to happen but it wasn`t any the fault of the officers. I work with police officers everyday and I can guarantee you not one of them goes to work wanting to kill someone. They do everything they can to control the situation before it comes to that.The majority of the posts I see against police are from people that have been in trouble. Stop breaking the law a$$holes and you wont be bothered by them!
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Male 7,740
keith2-"Wipe Every Cop Off the Face of The Earth. "

To quote Shakespeare, "You, sir, are an ass." (and an idiot)

keith2-"I got my ass kicked by cops twice."

With your attitude toward cops, it was probably deserved.

keith2-"twice, I`ve called on them for help"

So you`re a hypocrite, too. ("I hate them, and I want them dead, but I also want them to answer my beck and call when I want them to.")

Contrary to your belief, it is entirely possible to go through life without getting beat up, or shot, by a cop. The fact that you have failed at that says more about you than the cops.
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Female 254
If a guy is wielding a knife aimed at police officers, his intention is not to invite them to a BBQ. His intention is very clear.
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Male 3,894
@Aliyah, that looks more like a slashed officer than a stabbed one.
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Male 3,894
Oh, Sag-nasty. Not a great place to be.
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Female 254
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Male 1,016
the guy had a knife ...... stand six feet away no danger ....send a dog in to subdue him use a taser, nope we gotta kill him cause we aint got no room in our prisons they are full of pot smokers !!!
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Male 1,016
6 officers 6 bullets each =36 shots.....there was no reloading
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Male 5,081
Look how much bacon beneath those blue uniforms!
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Male 2,586
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
...AND RELOAD...................
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
lol
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Male 1,397
Buckin Fastards!
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Male 2,345
what happened to tazers? or...here is an idea, just backing away until the situation can be assessed more accurately and try to talk the guy down.

cops now just got for the kill way to fast.
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Male 2,592
Arm Everyone, Wipe Every Cop Off the Face of The Earth. I got my ass kicked by cops twice. And also twice, I`ve called on them for help, they`ve tried to twist the story around to try and find a crime to convict me of, offered me no help. F.ck police beat them all to a pulp, spare their families.
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Male 2,592
O-M-FREAKING-G... They have tasers, but no... they had to kill him instead.

One of my best friends said he considered being a cop. I told him flat out, if you do, our friendship is over, don`t talk to me and stay away from my family. He says "No, I won`t be like the others! I`ll let innocent people go!" Yeah thats what they all say at first, until the power goes to their head. Thankfully, our friendship was more important than him wanting to kill mentally ill black people. Now for my usual:

You WILL bow down to the police. They are the final judge, jury, and executioner. They are righteous, have the moral high ground, and most importantly, then guns. Who the hell do you think you are questioning the police`s policies? They are ALWAYS in the right. If you fart sideways, you die. And thats what you deserve for being black/hispanic/white juggalo/mentally ill or otherwise not what they deem as acceptable human beings. Now, wipe the blood off deputy Doofy`s boot,
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Male 38,480

Had enough? Or do you want to continue to disarm people?
You need more protection from cops than you do crooks.
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Male 37,778
[quote]How do you shoot a man with a knife?[/quote]
@Buiadh: They shot him because he was holding it too many times, over thirty! You just cannot handle a knife that often and not expect to get shot, eh?
(Yes I am joking!)

[quote]Still waiting for the chick-fil-a shooter link to be posted here though.[/quote]
@Andrew155: If you have a good report go ahead and suggest it! I didn`t find a very IAB-friendly one. (Short & simple)

[quote]No competent police force would have even needed to draw a gun to deal with that.[/quote]
@LordJim: EVERY POLICE FORCE in the world would draw their weapons, NO exceptions! Not all would fire though, that much is true.
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Male 37,778
It`s too bad that mentally ill people get this kind of treatment from police.

Once one cop pulls the trigger, they ALL start shooting - that`s something that should be changed ASAP! Unless the suspect also has a gun of course.

Meanwhile the majority of cops do outstanding work while a few bad apples, and a few unfortunate incidents, give them a bad name.
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Male 423
A lot of objects can be justified as deadly weapons that weren`t intended to be weapons at all, so if per say he had a bat would the cops be justified in shooting him just because he has mental issues and is in the possession of a supposedly deadly weapon? Or on another similar note, what if we have a patient that is already in a institution for people with mental issues, do we just call the cops every time they get they`re hands on something dangerous and are acting irate to unload 46 shots into them to solve the problem? Just wondering where were drawing the line here? It would be much safer then having the doctors and other workers that are jeopardizing their lives trying to subdue this mentally insane or troubled person right? I know Im making a lot of what ifs here but that kind of example would fall in the same general category as this incident in my eyes.
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Male 133
Black folks who break the law are actually doing it because they are above the law. You are obviously a racist pig if you shoot a black man that is threatening you or a regular white or non-black individual. Just ask Jesse Jackson and reverend Al Sharpton. They will tell ya. Gee wiz, its simple math. Some one you do not know and are not related too once owned a slave, therefore, black folks get a pass on everything. Wake up America, why are you so ignorant of social revolution?
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Male 2,988
shooting him justified? yes, thats an easy one. overkill? probably. did he have to die? thats the choice the man with the knife that refused to put it down made, he chose to die, the officers didnt chose to kill him.

i typically don`t side with cops, but i have their back in this case. he should have just put down the knife like they asked him. he shouldn`t have asked for an attack (asking for the dogs to be sicked on him). the police have a damn hard job and in the case of crazies like this, i have their back.
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Male 7,611
Dont cops carry tasers now? I feel that was a taser moment, not a 46 bullets moment.
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Male 10,855
That or the action was just really far away. In which case if he was walking towards to the police then unfortunately yes, lethal force is justified.
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Male 10,855
Why wasn`t a taser used?

On top of which it looked like he was walking away from the police officers, not toward them. The other officers could clearly keep their guns trained on him while one could pull out LTL weapons.
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Male 83
BOTTOM LINE:

JUST DO WHAT THEY SAY!? dratING RETARDS SAYING: "YOU CAN SHOOT ME! YOU CAN`T TOUCH ME!"
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Male 423
Like buiadh was saying, I think some americans have an odd conception of what is appropriate in terms of applying lethal force. There are so many ways this could of been handled better and I think most every one can agree on that.
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Male 7,740
LordJim-"That is some serious cop fetish you have going there."

Not really. I`ll be the first to admit the probably didn`t handle it in the best way. But I realize they are people, and will not always handle every situation in the best way. Plus, the police were not the ones that initiated the situation, nor elevated it. The responsibility resides with one person.

Misfit-Mutt-"A knife has no bullets."

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Male 7,740
Buiadh-"it confirms your stupidity."

Point out the parts that are incorrect. Or are you just going to throw insults?

Buiadh-"He didn`t charge, he walked."

He advanced on an officer, thus putting the officer in fear for his/her life.

Buiadh-"He clearly had mental issues judging by what he was repeating."

Which in now way change the fact that he had a knife advancing towards an officer. Mental issues usually makes them MORE dangerous, not less.
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Male 186
Each officer had his weapon trained on the subject. When he began walking toward one of the officers with a knife, that keyed the reaction. They are not going to ask, "Who wants to shoot?". They are going to react. The subject was repeatedly warned. He knew what he was doing, and he accomplished it. I feel sorry for his family and the police officers who will all carry this with them for life.
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Male 91
taser?
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Male 6,737
He didn`t charge, he walked. He clearly had mental issues judging by what he was repeating.

I just think that stories like this are so common in the US, and it really saddens me that a country has got of out of hand with lethal force being a distinct possibility on both sides of the law that people can actually defend it.

In the UK, nd much of the rest of the western world, there would be one black man getting the care he deserved right now.
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Male 500
There are loads of non-lethal takedown weapons, equipment etc.

This could have been handled much better indeed, but on the other hand you do not charge at gun wielding guy with a knife unless you have a death wish.
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Male 1,377
@Andrew155 there is not a lot in your link to post really. No video, no pics, no mugshot, just 4 paragraphs. Find a better story on this shooting and submit it and I bet they will post it.

By the way, it did sound like you were whining.
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Male 2,578
LordJim, be intellectually fair. Every time there is a shooting, it gets posted here, except when it`s an anti chick fil-a shooter. That is literally the only thing about chick fil-a that never got posted here. Don`t belittle things you disagree with by calling them whining. THAT is bad form. That would be like calling anti-war protestors "whiners", or people striking for better wages "whiners".

I just want some fairness. I`m not conservative, but I unfortunately find myself siding with them far too often to just provide some balance to the rather astronomical levels of liberal stupidity here.

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220817shooter_carried_chick-fil-a_food
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Male 3,445
It seems to me that this is pretty standard police behavior, actually. My Dad witnessed an incident in which a man robbed a jewelry store in San Diego. A group of probably 8 police emptied their clips because they thought he was reaching for something.

Not saying it`s right, but this doesn`t surprise me.
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Male 186
Each officer had his weapon trained on the subject. When he began walking toward one of the officers with a knife, that keyed the reaction. They are not going to ask, "Who wants to shoot?". They are going to react. The subject was repeatedly warned. He knew what he was doing, and he accomplished it. I feel sorry for his family and the police officers who will all carry this with them for life.
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Male 6,737
@Misfit-Mutt - Exactly! Glad someone picked up on it.
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Female 349
Buiadh- You can`t shoot a man man with a knife. A knife has no bullets.
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Male 2,436
"...a warning shot or a shot to the leg would`ve taken him down but left him alive."

You do not shoot to warn or shoot to wound, you shoot to kill. If you do not intend to kill, you do not shoot. Firearms training 101.

But yeah, the guy is dead. The situation could have been handle in a better way.
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Male 186
Each officer had his weapon trained on the subject. When he began walking toward one of the officers with a knife, that keyed the reaction. They are not going to ask, "Who wants to shoot?". They are going to react. The subject was repeatedly warned. He knew what he was doing, and he accomplished it. I feel sorry for his family and the police officers who will all carry this with them for life.
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Male 124
Believe it or not to a cop a knife is more dangerous than a gun in a lot of situations. Their vests protect them from bullets but are not stab proof. I still would have shot him 50 times in the leg before i shot anywhere above his waist tho. Geez get 5 cops with riot shields and knock him the hell down. anything but this.
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Male 532
It`s not a movie - you don`t shoot the knife out of someone`s hand and you don`t aim for an appendage when someone with a lethal weapon is a threat. Tasers don`t always stop someone. (Neither do bullets, but they are generally more effective.) Police are trained to aim for center mass and a knife can easily go through body armor (they aren`t frangible, after all).

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Male 7,123
-"Still waiting for the chick-fil-a shooter link to be posted here though."

Link to it. Don`t whine about not getting posted. Bad form.
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Male 7,123
No competent police force would have even needed to draw a gun to deal with that.

@Megrendel,

That is some serious cop fetish you have going there.
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Male 83
It unfortunate when it takes criminals 30 shots to follow an officer`s order. And then somehow they are the victims. Good Job!!
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Male 72
America...F**K Yeah!!!
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Male 6,737
@MeGrendel - I gave your second post the benefit of the doubt, but after rereading it it confirms your stupidity. Sorry for the confusion there.
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Male 6,737
@MeGrendel - Regarding your first post. Are you really that stupid? I cannot believe anyone would be as stupid as to make that post outwith jest.
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Male 7,740
Andrew155-"Still waiting for the chick-fil-a shooter link to be posted here though."

Won`t happen. Even when any `protected class` activists are violent, they can not be reported on as being `violent`.

That`s why THESE people are considered `violent`:




And yet THESE people are considered `peaceful`.

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Male 7,123
He had a knife, he was talking. they had a dog, and a well trained police dog will trump a knife. They also had, or should have had, non-lethal responses.

But once again we have the usual crew who grant the cops the right to execute anone they choose. They did not comply quickly or completely enough, so it it is fine to kill them for no specified offence.

Pissing off a cop = death and that`s fine with some.
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Male 7,740
Suicide.

patchgrabber-"Why was it necessary to use guns?"

knife = lethal weapon

Buiadh-"How do you shoot a man with a knife?"

With a gun. (or do you mean `why`?)

Buiadh-"This guy was no danger to those cops or anyone else."

Of course YOU would have walked up to him, patted him on the back, and dissarmed him.

If it is found that he was approaching a cop, it`s justifiable.

Death through stupidity.
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Male 2,578
Rather indefensible. Still waiting for the chick-fil-a shooter link to be posted here though.
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Male 5,314
f*ck
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Female 349
They need to train them to do something else! What happened to tasering in this situation? He doesn`t have a long distance weapon.
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Male 6,737
Just watched the vid, typical heavy handed American policing. This guy was no danger to those cops or anyone else. In the worst case a warning shot or a shot to the leg would`ve taken him down but left him alive.
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Female 4,359
Shall i post all thjat stuff again about amaerican government arming itself to the teeth?
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Male 6,737
How do you shoot a man with a knife?
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Male 5,811
Here`s my question, anyone with knowledge on the subject feel free to answer: Why was it necessary to use guns? Police have a variety of non-lethal tactics at their disposal, why not try one of those first?
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Male 884
You saw the video, it`s clear that he slipped and accidentally shot himself 46 times.
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Male 2,384
sigh, and of course the cops will get off
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Female 8,044
Link: Michigan Police Shoot Man Holding Knife 30+ Times [Rate Link] - Was this justified? Did he have to die? Can you say overkill? Story in credits link below.
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