Another Shooting This Time At Empire State Bldg

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in

At least 2 people were killed, 4 seriously wounded & 5 others injured. Has everyone gone crazy?! Story in credits below.
There are 160 comments:
Male 15,187
I no longer believe in US gun control. Why should the rest of the world put up with Americans invading them on a pretense and shooting them in cold blood when if the Americans public can`t share in the fun? They should legalise automatic weapons, grenades, RPGs, heck even WOMDs as available. Make it like Darra in Pakistan, with every uneducated malcontent toting a Kalashnikov. Next, cut police budgets, deny all public healthcare and rely on prayer instead to heal the wounded. The conservative right has it right!
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Male 884
Him and about half a dozen others
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Male 2,214
Republicans, can`t live with `em, can`t take `em out. It`s New York,Baby,Fuggedaboudit! He was taken down faster than a Kanye tweet! Huzzah!
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Male 2,384
america is going to sh/it
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Male 6,227

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Male 5,148
rburridge we are working hard for you :-)
(and we are not payed too)
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Female 71
Why don`t you all just agree to disagree, because I can`t see anyone giving in and suddenly having a change of heart about what they believe in any time soon haha I love reading through these sorts of threads.
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Male 5,148
McGovern1981 seem more like some "secret agency" was delivering weapons to some group of dogs to destabilize the political situation and to create tension inside population.
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Male 14,331
You are also aware the UK speaks English and is quick to point out our wrong doings kind of funny they did nothing for what you mention huh?
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Male 14,331
"years of lead" hmmm sounds like you didn`t destroy all those guns huh?
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Male 5,148
HumanAction was an answer to McG. In any case is not a personal "unresolved issue" is a national unresolved issue. And living just 200 meters from where a bomb exploded killing lot of civilians in my city during the "years of lead" ( the years where CIA was really active here) and seing that after lot of years the process have lead to nothing due of some "external pressure"..."intrigue" me.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: I believe this is now the second time of three discussions I`ve seen you fall back on attacking the CIA. I get the feeling that you have some "unresolved issues" regarding this agency.

It could be said that you seem obsessed with the matter. In fact, one could suggest that you lack the firepower to continue a prolonged discussion on any other matter and that your CIA quips are nothing more that a fall-back plan for when you reach the extent of your "wisdom."

But that`s all hypothetical nonsense, right?
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Male 5,148
Hedkwab Foreign articles talking about your National organization CIA, i can find articles in my languge about what she did here but i can`t find articles about what she did here in your language...go figure out what your beloved agency want you think of her. Covering the truth is the motto especialy to your citizens...this was just what i was suggesting.
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Male 340
@Piperfawn

OMG! Foreign articles not written in English? FARPIN CONSPIRACY MAN!! ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! THEY`RE ROUNDING US UP FOR FODDER!!!
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Male 5,148
An-egg let me be your google bitch for a bit too United States war crimes
All this started about a discussion between me and Human Action assuming that i can`t talk cause Mussolini was an italian like me,i think that this prove my point.
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Male 5,148
McGovern1981 if you want i have others links about CIA in Italy, but guess what? Impossible to find in english....hmm strange.
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Male 5,148
McGovern1981 Italy and the CIA
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Male 884
I gave several examples. The article says that the US did all those things alone. It doesn`t mention the multitude of other countries involved. The US DID NOT invade Iraq, a coalition of countries did; the US DID NOT invade Libya, a coalition of countries, initially France, did; the US DID NOT invade Korea, the North Koreans attacked South Korea and a coalition of countries on both sides responded;...
The article makes out that the US is to blame for all those wars and all the deaths. This is completely untrue.
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Male 1,442
Nice... 6 pages of comments from about 5 people. It is TL;DR for me, but I can assume nobody convinced the other of anything. I say we can close this debate until the next American shooting murder post.
So a few days.
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Male 884
Well, asy you don`t need a google bitch,
here is some data on accidents
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Male 5,148
Oh An-egg i don`t want you as a scrambled egg. Thought we was just chatting a bit.
For you the article is biased but you don`t give me demonstration about your feeling, that`s all. I don`t need google bitches i was just asking some question thinking you had the answers without the help of google, sorry. Trolling was not my intention.
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Male 14,331
@An-egg

Don`t bother he thinks the CIA operates in Italy to oppresss the people too. Europeons(yes I ment that) like him scapegoat the USA for all the worlds problems.
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Male 3,445
So the problem seems to be socio-economic.

Damn, I-A-B. Your character counter is never correct.
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Male 3,445
Unfortunately, I don`t think serious gun control like in Australia is an answer in a place like the U.S., mainly because people won`t accept it. However, I think it`s wrong to preach gun ownership as the solution for gun crime. I think that attitude gives a bit of psychological ammunition, so to speak, to those who choose to abuse guns. Obviously this is not a scientific claim, but it`s quite a leap to say that flooding a society with guns makes us safer than reducing the number.

To prevent these mass shootings, our society needs to approach mental health problems better. And to prevent urban crime, our society needs to improve socio-economic problems to help people get out of poverty. The violent crime rate has generally decreased in our society, yet it is remarkably high in poorer, urban parts of cities. Our poorer Southern states have a disproportionately high crime rate, and are lax on gun control, while richer states have less crime. So the problem seems to be socio-econ
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Male 884
I`m not your google bitch. You want statistics, you find them. I answered a question with a few examples. You started trolling. You suggested that the US is responsible for all those wars, I corrected you. Your `statistics` consisted of a very biased article, I corrected that too. I don`t think I have any further need to demonstrate that your assertions are speculative and rely on preconceptions and nobody being bothered to check up on the facts.
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Male 5,148
Yes we are sayng that people are particulary stupid...so why give thems weapons in hand? Is not this the most stupid thing to do?
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Male 5,148
but still report some statistic.
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Male 884
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Male 5,148
An-egg so in the whole south america operations that your country have done there was some european caountry involved? In Africa? And what is the country that allways have started the wars? What is the pressure that your country can operate on others country to go at war togheter? What country have allways deployed the larger ammount of weapons in the wars started by himself with the support of other allies? How many deaths your country is directly responsible? Who lead the troops on this battlefields?
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Male 884
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Male 884
Gun owners kill, general is an ad for an ambulance chaser!
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Male 884
I was answering "where are these super NRA members that are suppose to come to the rescue and NOT accidentally shot a bystander and safe the day? "
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Male 5,148
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Male 884
Piper Fawn "The 2003 Invasion of Iraq (19 March – 1 May 2003), was the start of the conflict known as the Iraq War, or Operation Iraqi Freedom, in which a combined force of troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded Iraq and toppled the regime of Saddam Hussein in 21 days of major combat operations". That is the first sentence from Wikipedia. My point is that you cannot just blame the US when other countries are involved too. In this case 2 European countries. Later on there were many more.
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Male 5,148
Male 5,148
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Male 884
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Male 5,148
"Also, I would argue that Iraq started the Iraq war when it invaded Kuwait."
Oh yes like when USA invaded Iraq on the second gulf war?
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Male 14,331
[quote]where are these super NRA members that are suppose to come to the rescue and NOT accidentally shot a bystander and safe the day?[/quote]



Well if you actually read anything on this you`d see the police may have accidently shot some people. There goes that theory! Since when do you trust police?? Ones around I bet half of them couldn`t take apart their pistol and clean it themselves.
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Male 884
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Male 884
Also, I would argue that Iraq started the Iraq war when it invaded Kuwait.
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Male 2,345
gun nuts, pretty sure your case for having guns is eroding more and more each day...

somehow in ALL these recent and MANY cases the only guns that did anything to stop the shooter were the guns handled by the police.

where are these super NRA members that are suppose to come to the rescue and NOT accidentally shot a bystander and safe the day?

I am not oppose to gun ownership, have owned them myself but we have to be much more open to limits and laws that do not allow a person to buy them online and without a very extensive background check. in fact, the buyer should have to take a MMPI-II measure before being allowed to own a gun, simple enough.

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Male 884
You`re right again, but the article is still very one sided, blaming the US for the Korean war. Not mentioning the 16 other countries on the same side as the South Korea or the countries on the same side as North Korea. Biased article is still biased.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction usualy only idiots say something and smile about it. The perfect picture of you?[/quote]
So when a child says "I love you mommy" and smiles they are being an idiot? I think you mispoke - thank you for the laugh though =).
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Male 14,331
@piperfawn

What you call style and class I call not learning and history bound to repeat itself.
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Male 5,148
HumanAction usualy only idiots say something and smile about it. The perfect picture of you?
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Male 5,148
An-egg use your mouse scroll and you see is not talking only about Iraq. There is a list of many countries. In any case who started the Iraq war? Zimbabwe?
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Male 884
You`re right that article is very one sided. It only talks about the US in Iraq, and I know that about 40 nations were involved there. I wonder how complete it is about the other areas it covers.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction the banter must be accepted by the interlocutor[/quote]
Not really... you didn`t accept the banter yet there it is. The banter exists and is fine independent of your acceptance.

[quote]if you say idiot things thinking to be smart and funny this don`t necessary mean the others have to be amused.[/quote]
The point wasn`t to amuse you - it was to amuse me. Mission accomplished. =)
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Male 5,148
HumanAction the banter must be accepted by the interlocutor, if you say idiot things thinking to be smart and funny this don`t necessary mean the others have to be amused.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]Human Action When you say to me" "Says the man from the country that gave us Mussolini." what are you tryng to do?[/quote]
I was poking fun at you. I`ve come to realize from our previous discussions that intelligent conversation does not work nearly as effectively with you as simple banter. Therefore, I provided the banter =).
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Male 5,148
An.egg and not in all war mentioned in the link europeans countries where involved.
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Male 5,148
An-egg i told that link was just untill 2007.
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Male 5,148
"in style"*
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Male 5,148
McGovern1981 partisans after have captured Mussolini and freed my country come at home and destroyed their weapons. Can you notice the difference is style and class between that people and you that put your horribles pictures of your pew pew masturbators toys?
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Male 5,148
Human Action When you say to me" "Says the man from the country that gave us Mussolini." what are you tryng to do? I thought was nice from me to go down at your level and showing you that before to spout idiot thinghs is better to know some more fact.
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Male 14,331
[quote]Oh for your information my family was made of partisans, people that fought against Mussolini.[/quote]

What did they fight him with garlic he outlawed guns didn;t he???
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Male 884
A small point. The US was supported in those wars by its European allies. They may not have contributed as much firepower, but they were willing partners. Not the good people of Europe, you understand, but their governments. In fact, didn`t France make the first strike on Lybia ?
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction so you are proud of your 30 milions deaths?[/quote]
An interesting and radical jump from the argument. I would like to have seen the thought process that led you to this conclusion.

[quote]Next time you refer to me comparing me to Mussolini remember your 30 milions murders and shut up.[/quote]
Did I compare you to Mussolini? Certainly not. I merely stated that both you live in the country that Mussolini came from. Do you deny this?
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Male 5,148
HumanAction so you are proud of your 30 milions deaths? At least you can say you have beaten Stalin. Next time you refer to me comparing me to Mussolini remember your 30 milions murders and shut up. Oh for your information my family was made of partisans, people that fought against Mussolini.
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Male 4,891
@Musuko42 - Don`t pretend to be stupid. I was just saying that the media shows a pessimistic, one sided and incomplete picture of America. If you don`t realize that, then maybe you aren`t pretending. I know you aren`t stupid, we simply disagree. I like to read the comments here at IAB, but sometimes the America bashing from some of the european IABers gets tiresome.
Done.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: Stalin alone was 20mil. The holocaust was 6mil. WWII death toll is 62-78mil (WWII was caused primarily by Hitler and Nazi regime). By my count, your big three have an estimated 100mil.

Not really close is it?
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Male 5,148
HumanAction yes was a good try and a winning one look at here and shut up Deaths caused by USA after WW2"The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world."
Oh and this is just untill 2007.
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: [quote]Correlates. Not causes.[/quote]
Agreed; that`s why I used the word "correlate." I am impressed you picked up on that...

[quote]The high violent crime might lead to guns being made unavailable. [/quote]
Or visa versa - it`s circular logic.

[quote]If you want to assert the latter, demonstrate the truth of the statement.[/quote]
If you want to assert the former, demonstrate the truth of the statement.

[quote]Think I`m the one who`s in the worse position? Feel free.[/quote]
Thank you for the permission, but I already felt free to feel this way. I do appreciate your consideration though - very sweet.

[quote]I will enjoy recovering from my punch while you recover from the bullet your equally easily-armed attacker puts in you.[/quote]
A risk and consequence I am willing to face. Where I`m from, we have the cajones to stick up for ourselves instead of cowering.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"I`ll choose the option where I shoot my attacker and don`t suffer either fate. Enjoy being the victim - you deserve it."

I will enjoy recovering from my punch while you recover from the bullet your equally easily-armed attacker puts in you.

Think I`m the one who`s in the worse position? Feel free. The cold harsh reality of the situation is that my country isn`t the one today reeling from yet another mass shooting.

Dum dee dum.
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Male 14,331
@Musuko42

We`ll see about that in Syria. Lybia, Vietnam, Afgahnistan(Russia), the list goes on...
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"Actually, my link provides evidence that a lack of gun availability correlates to an increase of total violent crime."

Correlates. Not causes.

The high violent crime might lead to guns being made unavailable.

Or guns being unavailable might lead to high violent crime.

If you want to assert the latter, demonstrate the truth of the statement.
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Male 14,331
@HumanAction

Those Hitler and Stalin figures are lowballing too I`d say. Did you include the millions stalin killed himself before WW2?
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: [quote]I`ll choose being a victim of violence over being a murder victim. Kinda hard to recover from being murdered.[/quote]

I`ll choose the option where I shoot my attacker and don`t suffer either fate. Enjoy being the victim - you deserve it.
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"Hows that working out in Syria? There`s alot more examples."

You mean where the government forces are obliterating the rebels right now?

That Syria you mean?
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: [quote]...that`s how that argument sounds to me.[/quote]
Congratulations on being wrong.

I`ve shown, numerically, that in some cases, the correlation I`ve presented exists. Please, show me numerically how your suggestion exists.
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Male 14,331
[quote]HumanAction Says the man from the country that give to the world the Bush family, Hiroshima ,Nagasaki and the major number of wars after the end of WW2. Well yes i`m sayng exactly this"your country is responsible of an ammount of deats much more larger than the deats caused by Hitler Stalin and Mussolini put togheter". So before to come out with your bs and comparing me to Mussolini think a bit.[/quote]

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAAA!! Leave it to greaseball to try to validate his countries past! Europes had more war then anyone and we nuked Japan because the alternative was invade and suffer at least 1 million casualties.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"OK - we have more MURDERS. You have more VIOLENT CRIME."

Glad you admit that.

I`ll choose being a victim of violence over being a murder victim. Kinda hard to recover from being murdered.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn" [quote]Well yes i`m sayng exactly this"your country is responsible of an ammount of deats much more larger than the deats caused by Hitler Stalin and Mussolini put togheter".[/quote]
I don`t think you can even convince many Europeans that this statement is true. Neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki killed any where near 1,000,000 people. The holocause? - 6 million. Stalin? - 20 million.

It was a good try... well, no nevermind; it wasn`t.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

For example: if there were loads of car crashes in state A, and barely any in state B, state A might well introduce much tougher driving tests, and harsher punishments for bad driving, to try and fix the problem.

And then someone might come along and say that state A has tough tests and harsh punishments, and many crashes...and state B has easy tests and mild punishments, and few crashes...therefore tough driving tests and harsh punishments for bad driving cause car crashes...

...that`s how that argument sounds to me.
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Male 14,331
[quote]History; where the government soldiers and the armed citizens had relatively equal weaponry.[/quote]

Hows that working out in Syria? There`s alot more examples.
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: [quote]That`s the Daily Mail, a scandal rag, reporting what one political party said in order to discredit another.[/quote]
There is a huge body of evidence supporting this claim from a variety of sources. I encourange everyone interested to investigate it further.

[quote]Measure MURDERS.[/quote]
OK - we have more MURDERS. You have more VIOLENT CRIME. See how that works?

[quote]Your link SUPPORTS my statement! We SHOULDN`T have guns...[/quote]
Actually, my link provides evidence that a lack of gun availability correlates to an increase of total violent crime. It is opposite your conclusions. Does this need to be explained further for you? I`m happy to oblige if so desired.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"Compared to South Dakota, New York has very high homicide rates. Also, compared to South Dakota, New York has very strict gun laws."

The assumption always seems to be that strict gun laws lead to more violence. What about the other way around? New York might have strict gun laws BECAUSE they`re such a homicidal bunch there, and it`s an effort to curb that.
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Male 5,148
HumanAction Says the man from the country that give to the world the Bush family, Hiroshima ,Nagasaki and the major number of wars after the end of WW2. Well yes i`m sayng exactly this"your country is responsible of an ammount of deats much more larger than the deats caused by Hitler Stalin and Mussolini put togheter". So before to come out with your bs and comparing me to Mussolini think a bit.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"Musuko42 - I call bull s*it. You don`t give a damn, you just want to criticize so you can feel smart. The news paints a bad picture, and you believe it."

So...the news is lying? Two people WEREN`T shot dead near the Empire State Building today?

Is...is that what you`re trying to say?
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Male 2,357
@FoolsPrussia: I was talking about New York State. Compared to South Dakota, New York has very high homicide rates. Also, compared to South Dakota, New York has very strict gun laws.

These paradoxes occur among several other states as well. The point I was making is simple: we cannot know that what will be best for New York will be best for South Dakota, and so on. I think most reasonable people will agree with this statement.

Therefore, it stands to reason that we should not apply a single law to affect both of them. Instead, we should allow them each to create their own laws as best serves themselves.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

That`s the Daily Mail, a scandal rag, reporting what one political party said in order to discredit another.

Also, how do you measure a violent crime. Do you include gentle slaps? That`s violent, and a crime.

Measure MURDERS. It`s pretty hard to get conflicting measurements for murders. The victim is either dead, or alive.

And if we are a violent nation, then do you really think it`s going to IMPROVE by giving a violent people access to LETHAL WEAPONRY!?!?!?!

Seriously?! Britons are violent...so let`s give them guns! That`ll help! *facepalm*

Your link SUPPORTS my statement! We SHOULDN`T have guns...as it looks likely that we`d use them and be killing eachother as much as you guys do!
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Male 4,891
Musuko42 - I call bull s*it. You don`t give a damn, you just want to criticize so you can feel smart. The news paints a bad picture, and you believe it.
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: [quote">Show your working. That statement needs backing up.[/quote">
First Thing I Found - There Are Many More

[quote">Oh, so the oppressive US government you`re guarding against is polite enough to not use its military against you if it decided to go all oppressive regime up on yo ass?[/quote">
The local policde and organizations I`ve referenced do not have those resources. In addition, Consitutionally, the military cannot be used against US citizens (unless Obama is the president that is).

[quote">You don`t defend it by being the ape with the biggest stick![/quote">
In my experience, the ape with the biggest stick keeps his property. I consider theft to be morally equivalent to rape or murder. I have no issue with adult thiefs being shot.
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"It has look at history."

History; where the government soldiers and the armed citizens had relatively equal weaponry.

Does that apply today? Got an aircraft carrier in your back yard have you?
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"And your country has pretty much already outlawed them that says alot about you!"

It says that we can`t be trusted with guns either, and we recognised that and stopped playing with them.

You can`t be trusted with them...but you`re still playing with them.

We`re both idiots...but you`re not accepting it.

"Spoiled rich people are not monuments just a summary of what`s wrong with the earth BTW."

If you lot didn`t come in your droves to gawk at them, we wouldn`t keep them around.
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Male 3,445
` Do you contend that New York`s homicide rate is not high?`

Any number of murders is too high, but New York City is relatively safe for a big metropolis.

These are overall crime statistics by city: LINK

Sorry, I can`t find a link specifically comparing homicide or violent crime rates, but New York is pretty far down on that list.
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Male 14,331
[quote]You think your handguns and rifles are stopping your government oppressing you? [/quote]

It has look at history.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"No i don`t think it is defeatist attitude to think it can`t be done."

Sorry, but it is. You`re a defeatist. You`re a shame on your country.

"Why do you even care what we do over here?"

Because we DO care. Because we LIKE you.

If we didn`t like you, and didn`t want you to stop being so damn stupid all the time, we wouldn`t say anything. We`d leave you to it.

We criticise you because we care. You`re our drug-addicted, hanging with the wrong crowd, getting into trouble little brother.

And we want you to GROW UP.
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Male 14,331
[quote]Guns are NOT the problem...but maybe you Americans are just too STUPID to be ALLOWED to have them!

Your track record so far isn`t great.[/quote]

And your country has pretty much already outlawed them that says alot about you!

Spoiled rich people are not monuments just a summary of what`s wrong with the earth BTW.

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Male 2,850
@Dead_mind

"Im sorry, but criminals will not follow gun laws. They tend to break most laws.
Just saying"

Yes they do.

Doesn`t mean you give up making the laws and trying to enforce them, does it?

Saying criminals will still get guns if we ban guns is like saying murderers will still murder if we ban murder...and? What`s your point? That we shouldn`t ban things?
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Male 4,891
@Musuko42 - No i don`t think it is defeatist attitude to think it can`t be done. I think it is realistic. I know that nothing will change your opinion, and I don`t care either. You are entitled to it. The problem I have is you (and other european IABers) that criticize America. You have no solutions, just put downs. Why do you even care what we do over here? All the proof I need to know that America is great is the fact that the rest of the world reads and forms opinions on the news over here. You do it to try and make yourself feel superior.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"Because defending it with kittens is apt to be better prevention?"

You defend your property with a civilised society, rule of law, and dedicated police force and criminal justice system.

You don`t defend it by being the ape with the biggest stick!

If that means sitting and doing nothing while some thug takes your stuff, SUCK IT UP! Let the police catch them.

And if your police sucks, vote and campaign to improve them! Grabbing a gun to do the job yourself is just giving up.

And ultimately...it comes down to you being far too proud for common sense. Your pride gets hurt if someone robs you, and you want to lash out.

And you end up risking lives in doing that.

Seriously, it`s just STUFF. Why the hell is it so valuable to you?
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Male 303
@Musuko42
Im sorry, but criminals will not follow gun laws. They tend to break most laws.
Just saying.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"My bad, I didn`t realize our local police, the EPA, ATF, etc. have these weapons available. This was clearly my fault..."

Oh, so the oppressive US government you`re guarding against is polite enough to not use its military against you if it decided to go all oppressive regime up on yo ass?

Wow.
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Male 2,850
@HumanAction

"You consistently have the highest violent crime rates amongst first-world nations. Far above that of the US."

Show your working. That statement needs backing up.

Every measure I`ve ever seen is that your murder rate is well above ours.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"It`s like you don`t put any responsibility on the person, but instead blame the weapon. If you hit your thumb with a hammer, is it the hammers fault then?"

I`m not blaming the weapon.

I`m blaming YOU! Americans!

You, almost uniquely, seem to be incapable of responsibly handling a gun! You keep killing eachother with them!

If I`m dumb enough to smack my thumb with a hammer, I don`t blame the hammer...I`m to blame...and maybe I shouldn`t be allowed to play with hammers if I`m so stupid with them.

Guns are NOT the problem...but maybe you Americans are just too STUPID to be ALLOWED to have them!

Your track record so far isn`t great.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"If murder isn`t committed by criminals, then it must not be a crime!"

They`re not a criminal UNTIL they commit the murder. Therefore, keeping guns out of the hands of criminals isn`t worth much. Non-criminals can become criminals at the touch of a trigger.

And they DO. Look at your recent history.
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Male 2,357
@Musuko42: Some of your gems thus far...

[quote]as it`s NOT criminals that seem to be doing the shootings![/quote]
So the shooters are just law-abiding citizens running around abiding the law. No crime here?

[quote]What`s the matter...America want`s Britain to sort out its problems?[/quote]
Heck no! You consistently have the highest violent crime rates amongst first-world nations. Far above that of the US.

[quote]You mean that government armed with nuclear weapons, jet fighters, stealth bombers, machine guns, tanks, etc, etc, etc?[/quote]
My bad, I didn`t realize our local police, the EPA, ATF, etc. have these weapons available. This was clearly my fault...

[quote]You shouldn`t be defending your property with lethal force anyway.[/quote]
Because defending it with kittens is apt to be better prevention?

Did you think any of this out?
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Male 4,891
Musuko42 - "That whole "if we outlaw guns, only criminals will have guns" thing doesn`t hold water...as it`s NOT criminals that seem to be doing the shootings!"

If murder isn`t committed by criminals, then it must not be a crime! Did you even read or think about that statement you made? It`s like you don`t put any responsibility on the person, but instead blame the weapon. If you hit your thumb with a hammer, is it the hammers fault then?
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Male 2,850
@syke22

"I`m not defending my land with a drating sword."

You shouldn`t be defending your property with lethal force anyway.

It`s just stuff. No stuff is worth anyone`s life.

Well...unless your life is THAT cheap.
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"A parliamentary democracy that continues to support royalty open your eyes! Call it what you want but that doesn`t change what it is doing."

We support them in the same way as you support your national monuments: they`re a symbol of pride, and a MASSIVE financial boost to our country through tourism.

Think of our Royals as the same as your Mount Rushmore and you`ve got the right idea.

"He seems to think we want to disarm and be plebs like them."

You think your handguns and rifles are stopping your government oppressing you?

You mean that government armed with nuclear weapons, jet fighters, stealth bombers, machine guns, tanks, etc, etc, etc?

Your guns are about as useful as a wet cloth against all that.

Hell, if I wanted to oppress a people, I`d convince them that they could defeat me with a rock! How better to control a people than to convince them they can`t be controlled.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"There is a reason that you don`t have a clue of how to disarm our society. It can`t be done."

What a pathetic, defeatist, cowardly attitude that is.

I don`t think you deserve to call yourself an American. That`s SHAMEFUL.

"You keep thinking until you come up with a plan to disarm the criminals without putting my family in danger. Then you can criticize."

I don`t need to. YOU`RE the one with the rampantly violent society, not me.

What`s the matter...America want`s Britain to sort out its problems? I thought forcing other people to help you out was a socialist thing? I thought you guys didn`t like that?

Jeez...is this what America is these days? I`m sorry for all the rest of you, the ones putting rovers on Mars, the ones building skyscrapers, the ones living amazing lives...I hope THIS "person" doesn`t sum up the spirit of your nation.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"I completely disagree with your idea that mass killers are just average people "having a bad day"

I didn`t say they were just having a bad day.

But look at them: plenty of clean criminal records before they go shooting. They`re not criminals with guns. They are normal, law-abiding citizens with guns...right up until they start shooting.

That whole "if we outlaw guns, only criminals will have guns" thing doesn`t hold water...as it`s NOT criminals that seem to be doing the shootings!
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction "the debate isn`t the number of people killed" ...Adolf aprove.[/quote]
Says the man from the country that gave us Mussolini.

@FoolsPrussia: [quote]New York`s homicide rates have been going down consistently since 1990. 2009 was an all-time low for murder in NYC.[/quote]
Am I wrong or does this suggest nothing about the actual height of New York`s homicide rates. Do you contend that New York`s homicide rate is not high?
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Male 14,331
@turdburglar

He seems to think we want to disarm and be plebs like them. The spirt is there and it`s the opposite of what he said it`s to keep the 2nd Amendment.
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Male 1,136
I have a house in rural Georgia. The nearest town with a police station is about 20 miles away. There is hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of farming equipment on the property.
I`m not defending my land with a drating sword. Plus, if I`m in the woods or something, it`s a good idea to have a gun with you in case you run up on a snake or a hog.
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Male 14,331
A parliamentary democracy that continues to support royalty open your eyes! Call it what you want but that doesn`t change what it is doing.
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Male 4,891
@Musuko42 - I completely disagree with your idea that mass killers are just average people "having a bad day"
There is a reason that you don`t have a clue of how to disarm our society. It can`t be done. You would only succeed in disarming honest people.
Don`t patronize me with that, "you are America, where has your spirit gone" garbage. You european IABers take every possible opportunity to put down America.
You keep thinking until you come up with a plan to disarm the criminals without putting my family in danger. Then you can criticize.
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"Criminals don`t obey laws if they did there would be any."

Correct, they don`t.

...so why is your response to that to make the laws as lax as possible and make things easy for them?

Seriously, where does the failing occur in your thought process that leads you to the conclusion that because people break laws, you shouldn`t even bother making laws?
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"Say the taxpayer to a monarcy LOL!"

Says the...umm...subject of a parliamentary democracy that`s far older than your country? :P
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Male 2,850
@McGovern1981

"JUST LIKE DRUGS!!! Oh wait..."

*pinches the bridge of his nose*

Let me try this in small words.

I did NOT say that a ban would stop people getting guns.

I said that finding a way to stop people getting guns would be good.

I didn`t say HOW that could be done.

I`m merely asking you to agree or disagree: if a way can be found to reliably stop people getting guns, would you support such an unarmed society?
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Male 14,331
wouldn`t*
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Male 14,331
[quote]Those poor people who were killed or injured...if only there was some way THE NUTCASE COULDN`T GET HOLD OF A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE.[/quote]

JUST LIKE DRUGS!!! Oh wait...

[quote]Who`s turned you into complacent, scared sheep[/quote]

Say the taxpayer to a monarcy LOL!

[quote]Regardless of whether you are for or against gun control, it takes a really childish mind to show off your gun collection in reaction to a story like this.[/quote]

What you consider childish I consider unwilling to be brainwashed. Ever wonder why your seeing these more and more recently when this things happen almost daily in places like Oakland, CA and compton? Criminals don`t obey laws if they did there would be any.
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

Interesting note: that Europe list, though incomplete, is still far shorter than the USA list.

And Europe`s population is currently DOUBLE that of the USA.

I`m not saying that guns are inherently a problem. But it seems to be that Americans + guns is an unhealthy combination.

Whatever it is in the American society...it doesn`t seem to be very responsible when it comes to guns!
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

Incidentally, DON`T assume it`s a certain "type" of person that shoots and kills people.

How many times does your country have to suffer a perfectly ordinary, law-abiding, clean-record citizen going nuts and taking his legal gun and shooting a bunch of people before you realise that ANYONE with a gun can, and does, murder...not just this mythical different species you call "criminal"?
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"@Musuko42 - I want the right to protect myself and family. I do not have faith in others to protect me."

See below: I fully support your view that you need to be armed to protect yourself against armed threats that abound in your society.

However, surely you can see that your society would be safer if the armed threats did NOT abound in your society? Rather than arm yourself to defend against armed threats, wouldn`t it be better if the armed threats didn`t exist in the first place?

I specifically didn`t state HOW you might disarm your society, because I haven`t the first clue. It`s an amazingly difficult task.

But for f`s sake...you`re AMERICA! Where`s your spirit gone?! Who the hell has convinced you that you CAN`T figure out how to do it?!

Who`s turned you into complacent, scared sheep?
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Male 4,891
@Musuko42 - I want the right to protect myself and family. I do not have faith in others to protect me.
Do you really believe that a ban on firearms will convince this type of person to turn them in? It won`t stop them from getting them either.
Being ready for a situation which I can`t prevent IS being proactive.
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Male 441
Am I the only one who has noticed a sharp increase of shootings since God Bless America has come out on DvD?
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Male 3,445
`New York has "strict" laws and high homicide rates.`

New York`s homicide rates have been going down consistently since 1990. 2009 was an all-time low for murder in NYC.
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Male 5,148
HumanAction "the debate isn`t the number of people killed" ...Adolf aprove.
Oh and you compare a state with a whole continent?
Well if we are joking this is not amusing anyway.
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Male 4,891
This is Europe

Note: This list leaves out ALOT of stuff. Read the note at top of list.
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Male 5,148
Lol maybe they think that their turism business will grow with all that shootings around.
I bet that lot of people will prefere to go in Siberia during winter than to go in USA with the risk of never come back alive.
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Male 15,187
With Americans like these, who needs terrorists?
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction There is proverb " you can tell what somebody is like by the company they keep".[/quote]
It is clear that I`ve upset you; for this, I apologize.

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Male 2,357
@Buiadh: I do not believe I`ve had the pleasure. As for your statement, depending on the citizen, yes I would consider that a fair assessment.

I think you will find that I take a very different approach to what I believe "gun control" is about, and what the solution is.

First off, in my opinion, increased gun saturation leads to higher homicide rates. However, this does not mean increased TOTAL crime nor does it mean increased TOTAL violent crime. To me, the debate isn`t the number of people killed, it is whether or not that number is acceptable to the average citizen in exchange for the right to buy and own arms.

My solution is to delegate the responsibility to the states. Right now, we have no way of knowing what will work for each state. South Dakota has lower homicide rates than most of Europe but loose gun laws. New York has "strict" laws and high homicide rates.
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Male 15,510
Everybody knows is not America without the weekly mass shooting
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Male 2,850
@Buiadh

"@Musuko - Don`t feel the trollz!"

But...but...they`re so fun to watch! And I`m bored!
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Male 2,850
By the by, I`m pragmatic enough to understand that when guns are readily available, it`s sensible for everyone to have a gun for defence.

But by far the better answer, for an ideal world, is for guns not to be readily available in the first place.

Easier said than done...but hell, I thought America was all about being optimistic and achieving the unachievable.

If there were a way for EVERYONE to be reliably disarmed, wouldn`t that be better and safer than everyone being armed? If not, why not?

In before "we need guns to protect against the gov`mint!": the government have tanks and fighter jets. Your guns will do diddly squat if they come for you.
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Male 6,737
@Musuko - Don`t feel the trollz!
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Male 3,445
`You`re displaying reactive, rather than proactive thinking. Instead of saying everyone should carry a fire extinguisher at all times, maybe you should instead think about who`s setting all the fires, and what you could do to stop them?`

Finally someone intelligent.
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Male 5,148
HumanAction There is proverb " you can tell what somebody is like by the company they keep". Well Charlie Sheen says all of you.
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Male 6,737
@HumanAction - I don`t think we`ve debated personally? Correct me if I`m wrong. But arguing on the subject of firearms with a citizen of the US is as productive as putting your head in a blender. As has been shown time and time again on this and many other sites.

Stats are ignored or brushed over. As Bill "Gun Club" O`Reilly says, "You can`t explain that."
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Male 2,850
@turdburglar

"Those poor people who where killed and injured...If only there where some way they could have protected themselves..."

Those poor people who were killed or injured...if only there was some way THE NUTCASE COULDN`T GET HOLD OF A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You`re displaying reactive, rather than proactive thinking. Instead of saying everyone should carry a fire extinguisher at all times, maybe you should instead think about who`s setting all the fires, and what you could do to stop them?
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Male 2,357
@Evil_Eye: [quote]Letting people who enjoy shooting each other have guns is a problem that solves itself in the end.[/quote]
Seems to be valid so far.



This picture thing is a riot, you should all try this.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]HumanAction if you want i say you "yes"[/quote]
In the words of my dear friend Charlie Sheen - duh, winning!



For those curious, I try to "argue" and banter at a complimentary level to that of my opponent. If anyone wants a serious and reasonable discussion, I think you will find me willing.
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Male 5,148
Evil_Eye yep.
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Male 1,442
@piperfawn: Oh I am not going to stop them. Letting people who enjoy shooting each other have guns is a problem that solves itself in the end.
We just have to worry about containing the issue... Maybe wall off the country and pretend we are doing it to protect them from scary foreigners! A prison for their freedom.
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Male 5,148
HumanAction if you want i say you "yes", but remember that reason is given to fools. Now that you are happy go back to play at kindergarten kid.
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Male 2,357
@piperfawn: [quote]Evil_Eye don`t waste your time[/quote]
Does this mean you give up and we win?

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Male 3,445
Regardless of whether you are for or against gun control, it takes a really childish mind to show off your gun collection in reaction to a story like this.
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Male 5,148
Evil_Eye don`t waste your time, they will never understand. They are just like robots that repeat pre programmed words, sometime i also doubt that they really understand what they say, sometime i think that the pro guns here have a vademecum that they have learned by heart.
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Male 4,891
Those poor people who where killed and injured...If only there where some way they could have protected themselves...
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Male 2,357
@auburnjunky: [quote]NYC does not allow conceal and carry. Hmmmmmmm.[/quote]
Well neither does Chicago and they`re doing fine! Oh, wait.... nevermind.
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Male 1,442
When I saw that it said two people was killed, I went "Only two?".

So yes, the world has gone crazy when a public shooting in the Empire State Building automaticly seemed mild to me; then our right wing friend auburnjunky seemed to think that it is the perfect time to promote the Second Amendment.

This is America... scary.
This is Canada... I think Canadians should be in charge of you. It would be like a younger brother looking after his mentally deficient elder.
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Male 14,331

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Male 14,331

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Male 14,331

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Male 14,331

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Male 14,331

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Male 14,331
I ever show you guys my gun collection.....
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Male 3
`MERICA! YEAH
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Male 14,331
Impossible!!! They don`t allow concealed carriers!!
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Male 10,338
NYC does not allow conceal and carry. Hmmmmmmm.
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Male 3,445
I am sick of this stuff.
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Male 6,737
InB4GunClub.
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Male 3,445
New York is relatively safe these days, Gerry. Especially for a city of its size.
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Male 39,610

A shooting in New York is not really "news".
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Female 8,043
Link: Another Shooting This Time At Empire State Bldg [Rate Link] - At least 2 people were killed, 4 seriously wounded & 5 others injured. Has everyone gone crazy?! Story in credits below.
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