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Date: 07/13/12 08:52 AM

122 Responses to The 14-Month Progression From Male To Female [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18499 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 8:54 am
    Link: The 14-Month Progression From Male To Female - A photo-by-photo look at a teen boy just before he comes out to his parents to 14 months into his transition.
  2. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:02 am
    As long as she`s happy. Looks like a girl at least.
  3. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:05 am
    Looks pretty convincing
  4. Profile photo of denmarkcm
    denmarkcm Male 18-29
    341 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:06 am
    and this is why I only go on dates with friends of friends and such..
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Starts out looking a bit like Zac Quinto
    ends up looking like Bristol Palin.
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:10 am

    At least you know you can`t accidentally knock her up.
  7. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:11 am

    From an Outie to an Innie.
  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:11 am

    From a Pointer to a Setter.
  9. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Finally, a girl who can open the pickle jar for me!
  10. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3145 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:16 am
    This is one of my biggest fears.

    Did you know that the American Red Cross will not accept blood of transgender individuals if they have had sex with those of the natural born gender.

    So if s/he has sex with a guy s/he cannot donate blood to the ARC
  11. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:18 am
    Gerry`s comments keep me on this site.
  12. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:27 am
    Still hasn`t grown a different expression.
  13. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:32 am
    Science!
  14. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:33 am

    DuckBoy "This is one of my biggest fears."
    What is? That you will spontaneously change genders and become a man?
  15. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:39 am
    Nice job!
  16. Profile photo of drworm2002
    drworm2002 Male 30-39
    662 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:44 am
    Duckboy...they don`t let gay men donate and that might change. I think it is stupid. Being gay doesn`t mean you are going to have bad blood.
  17. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Haters gonna hate, but nice job with the changing there. :)
  18. Profile photo of Jesus_Wey
    Jesus_Wey Male 18-29
    238 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:02 am
    Wow. These people should be legally required to carry a sign that says "I`m a guy!", or at least inform you. Ewww.
  19. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Wow. These people should be legally required to carry a sign that says "I`m a guy!", or at least inform you. Ewww.
    And people like you should be legally required to have "I`m an idiot" tattooed on your head, or at least inform you.
  20. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:10 am

    They don`t all turn out looking that good.


  21. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:15 am
    To the "eww" and "wear a sign" crowd: relax. You`re not going to end up finding an unexpected surprise in the underwear of the women you date.

    Because with the attitude you are displaying, I doubt you`ll be able to find any women willing to date you in the first place.

    Well...apart from those that DO carry surprises in their underwear, of the kind that need antibiotics to clear up.
  22. Profile photo of XbigXmommaX
    XbigXmommaX Female 18-29
    474 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:18 am
    @ macguffin - nice!
  23. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:22 am

    To the "eww" and "wear a sign" crowd: relax. You`re not going to end up finding an unexpected surprise in the underwear of the women you date.

    Because with the attitude you are displaying, I doubt you`ll be able to find any women willing to date you in the first place.

    Well...apart from those that DO carry surprises in their underwear, of the kind that need antibiotics to clear up.

    And I`m pretty sure that most gay men will be able to "keep their hands to themselves" too. So fear not, dear worried gentlemen that have difficulty picking up straight blind women let alone anyone else.
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:34 am

    @ Jesus_Wey - From what I can gather from reading your comments here at IAB, I don`t think you can afford to be all that picky.
  25. Profile photo of Pinkminx22
    Pinkminx22 Female 30-39
    1081 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:36 am
    He did a nice job..
  26. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:52 am
    Why are we all jumping on Jesus_wey and duckboy?

    It`s a legit concern. To each his/her own for sure, but it should be considered fair play/good taste to inform a pick up in a bar that you are indeed a male if you appear female.

    Guy picking up chick: "Hey baby. I seem to have lost my phone number. Can I have yours?"

    Transgender chick: "I`m a dude, dude."

    Guy: "I`m totally into it." OR! "Oh well thanks. Wanna get a drink?"

    Two answers that are acceptable. Hooking up, or declining in a friendly way. All because the transgender person was honest and up front.

    Don`t forget about what happened to Begby in Trainspotting. Blech! lol
  27. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:09 am

    It`s a legit concern. To each his/her own for sure, but it should be considered fair play/good taste to inform a pick up in a bar that you are indeed a male if you appear female.
    Why does it not surprise me that you are also one of these morons, aj? I wouldn`t worry about it if I were you: getting your overtures snubbed by a tranny isn`t all that different to getting them snubbed by any other woman. Neither of them wants to sleep with you, and neither of them is interested in sharing their medical history with you, however you may feel about it.
  28. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:11 am
    Of course Macguffin would take what I said the wrong way.
  29. Profile photo of I-Am-Goatse
    I-Am-Goatse Male 18-29
    165 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:14 am
    But of course, AJ! That`s what MacG does! Misconstrues information and calls everyone moronic virgins.

    I am beginning to see a trend and suspect there are insecurities that are being hidden...
  30. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:20 am

    But of course, AJ! That`s what MacG does! Misconstrues information and calls everyone moronic virgins.
    Oh look, it`s Dumber. Crakr will be along in a minute to say that he agrees with you both too. Then you can all sit in a little circle and wank one another off whilst you recount tales of the many women whom you`ve foisted crap pick up lines upon, and who have failed to provide you with a complete summary of their medical history in return, the selfish whores.
  31. Profile photo of sparki1980
    sparki1980 Male 30-39
    329 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:20 am
    Doesn`t look much different than if he just plucked his eye brows and grew his hair out.
  32. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:28 am
    Instead of lighting up the flame cannons and firing away, let`s take a look at what each side is thinking.

    MacG & Co. realize that transgender people aren`t going to tell you "I`m a guy" because most times they don`t identify themselves as male and never have. They feel that they were born female, and are trying to make their body reflect that.

    Side note: Telling someone "you`re not going to get laid anyway" completely avoids addressing anything they actually said.

    AJ & Co. Are ok with transgendered people living their lives, however they have a mental aversion to sleeping with someone who has a Y-chromosome. They`re perhaps working off an unrealistic premise in which the subject will randomly sleep with strangers as a matter of routine, and has a chance of winding up with someone who is transgender. Most people get to know the people they sleep with.
  33. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:29 am
    YES!

    Guff, you so need to get laid....

    Or, you can go ahead and tell us all that you are the alter and opposite ego of Leesah, who secretly never left.

    I missus her.
  34. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:30 am

    @ I-Am-Goatse - " cnut " is not a nice word.
  35. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:30 am
    Thank you Dr. Proff.

    I concur with what you said about the situation.

    I was more speaking to the drunken bar hook-up than the relationship thing.
  36. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:35 am
    However, gender identities aside, everyone has the right to be as picky as they like about the person they sleep with. If someone having a bad credit history turns you off--good on you, don`t sleep with them. They can go and ask any woman they`re going to be intimate with whether they`re transgender--though that might not go over well. There`s the Dave Chappelle option of a pre-sex contract, which, while hilarious isn`t practical either. So they settled on the idea that, if a transgendered individual is about to hook up with someone, perhaps they could give a heads up in case that`s a problem for them.

    Again though, I think this is painting a picture of transgendered people as "preying upon" the hetero, where in reality it doesn`t work out that way at all.
  37. Profile photo of JDplaysFF
    JDplaysFF Male 30-39
    626 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:38 am
    How about a flame war against people with one picture face?

    It`s all one look! I feel like I`m taking crazy pills here!
  38. Profile photo of I-Am-Goatse
    I-Am-Goatse Male 18-29
    165 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:39 am
    okay Gerry, I removed my naughty word post, and replace it with a video I found of MacG.
    Text be to link the for shown.
  39. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Guff, you so need to get laid....
    One day I`m a "whore", the next day apparently I don`t get laid enough. When *will* you one-dimensional, sexually-frustrated morons stop projecting your own problems on to others? :)
  40. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 11:58 am
    Who called you a whore Guff?

    Just because you drat goats and donkeys, doesn`t mean you`re a whore.

    I swear. Some people. Am I right?
  41. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    MacGuffin, "one-dimensional, sexually-frustrated morons "
    HEY!
    I resemble that remark!
    And for the record, I am NOT a moron. I scored 2 points higher.
  42. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    MacGuffin - When they get to have sex.
  43. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    MacGuffin, "one-dimensional, sexually-frustrated morons "

    HEY!
    I resemble that remark!
    And for the record, I am NOT a moron. I scored 2 points higher.
    Gerry - you are *not* a moron. And if you don`t have sex, that`s hardly your fault - you`re married after all.
  44. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    MacGuffin - When they get to have sex.
    Which ironically is only ever likely to happen if some chick with a dick and herpes decides to lower her standards and dupe them into bed.
  45. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    @ MacGuffin - now now, play nice.
    I`m sure those guys have plenty of sexual partners who find them very exciting.

    But then, what to migrant farm workers know.
  46. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    Looks pretty good. Good on her.
  47. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    "Why are we all jumping on Jesus_wey and duckboy?

    It`s a legit concern. To each his/her own for sure, but it should be considered fair play/good taste to inform a pick up in a bar that you are indeed a male if you appear female. "

    but surely there comes a point when they not male physically - and certainly not mentally male.

    my personal view is that if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... it`s a duck. So if they feel female, and have changed their body to outwardly look female - then they`re a lot closer to female than male and why should they go around telling people as almost a conversation starter? do you start a conversation to someone `by the way just in case this leads somewhere I thought i`d best mention i`m a genetic male?` no...so why should they?

    how can anyone going through that ever lead a life as they wish if they always have to dredging up the past to explain to people who they once were?
  48. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    You don`t get it.

    Drinking at a bar. Have you ever had a slightly drunk hook up?

    The kissing and rubbing starts pretty fast in that situation.

    Think about it. Sorry, I`d like to know.
  49. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    "You don`t get it.

    Drinking at a bar. Have you ever had a slightly drunk hook up?

    The kissing and rubbing starts pretty fast in that situation.

    Think about it. Sorry, I`d like to know."


    No, you`re right... I don`t get it. If someone is female enough to pass right under my radar to the point i`m kissing them and copping a feel... then i must be physically attracted to them as they were. tbh I think i`d be more upset if the good looking chick i was kissing in a bar turned out to be really fugly under her makeup.
  50. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    "tbh I think i`d be more upset if the good looking chick i was kissing in a bar turned out to be really fugly under her makeup."

    HAHAHA Agreed!

    Beer Goggles muck up the radar pretty badly.
  51. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    You don`t get it.

    Drinking at a bar. Have you ever had a slightly drunk hook up?

    The kissing and rubbing starts pretty fast in that situation.

    Think about it. Sorry, I`d like to know.
    So, in that case, why don`t you just take the initiative and say "listen, honey, you`re gorgeous and everything, but I just want you to know before anything gets going that I`m a small-minded, right-wing moron with sexual identity issues and I`d feel like a homo if I were to sleep with someone I later found out has a Y chromosome or any type of intersex condition. So, if any of that is a problem for you, I`ll understand"? It would let all women know they were dealing with a moron - because they`d like to know - and if that was a problem for them then just let it be their problem.
  52. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    Jesus Christ, MacGuffin. You are a drating cooze.

    Just drat off from responding to me, how `bout ya? It is obvious that I, along with everyone else, is not good enough for you.

    Take your self-righteous, drated up, cat lady curmudgeonly attitude and eat some e-coli laden haggis okay?
  53. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Take your self-righteous, drated up, cat lady curmudgeonly attitude and eat some e-coli laden haggis okay?
    No thanks. I think I`ll just stick to pointing out how unbelievably stupid everything you`ve said thus far is instead.
  54. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Nice. Piss off.
  55. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Nice. Piss off.
    Nope. :)
  56. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:38 pm
    <i>Nope. :)</>

    Yep.
  57. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:38 pm
    drating Italics.
  58. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Yep.
    Diddums. Did I hurt your feelings my making you realise how stupid your comments were? Bless.
  59. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 1:43 pm
    No. I can`t figure out how to do italics. I wasn`t here for that lesson.

    It`s html right?
  60. Profile photo of Brometheus
    Brometheus Male 30-39
    376 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:04 pm
    AJ - = italics, without the spacing
  61. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    It`s html right?
    Nope. And even if it had been, your markup would still have been wrong.
  62. Profile photo of Selous
    Selous Male 30-39
    1197 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    wow, she is hot, i would do her

    probally wouldnt tell mum she was a transgender, but wouldnt be bothered myself
  63. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    Thanks brometheus.

    MacGuffin:

    HTML uses tags like <b> and <i> for formatting output, like bold or italic text.
  64. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    MacGuffin:

    HTML uses tags like <b> and <i> for formatting output, like bold or italic text.
    Yes, I know dear. I`m a professional software developer that runs my own software development company. Which is how I know that the tags you mentioned are not closed by typing "</>" as you attempted, but by typing "<i>some text</i>".
  65. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:31 pm
    CRAP! I forgot the i in </i>

    Sorry `bout that!
  66. Profile photo of robosnitz
    robosnitz Male 40-49
    2737 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 2:43 pm
    Gross
  67. Profile photo of 8BitHero
    8BitHero Male 18-29
    5414 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 3:09 pm
    Good for her.
  68. Profile photo of feverdream
    feverdream Female 18-29
    106 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    wow! good for her!
  69. Profile photo of heytonashcat
    heytonashcat Male 18-29
    81 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 3:32 pm
    HER Transition. And why is this intended for our entertainment?
  70. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    He/she looks good as a female and quite frankly if she has had gender reassignment surgery then why worry? Another thing ... ladies (auburn and junky) please grow up.
  71. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 4:01 pm
    Why are people so afraid of people that are different from them? I can`t imaging how awful it must be to have been born in the wrong body. Good for her. And you know what, how hard would it be to make a vagina anyway? Every one I have seen looks like a poorly healed flesh wound - even the airbrushed ones.
  72. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36184 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    "Why are people so afraid of people that are different from them?"
    They fear it might call their own "normalcy" into question and they`re insecurities cannot handle that.
  73. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2508 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 4:25 pm
    I don`t think anyone is born in the "wrong" body. I think some people just can`t tolerate who they were born as.
  74. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 4:31 pm
    "They fear it might call their own "normalcy" into question and they`re insecurities cannot handle that."

    lol, are any of us `normal`?

    @RobSwindol

    "I don`t think anyone is born in the "wrong" body. I think some people just can`t tolerate who they were born as. "

    And how then is that a right body for them if they can`t tolerate it? Surely if someone can`t tolerate the gender they were born with, then it`s the wrong one as far as they are concerned - and their opinion on it is the only one that counts isn`t it?
  75. Profile photo of Brometheus
    Brometheus Male 30-39
    376 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 4:52 pm
    how hard would it be to make a vagina anyway?

    It`s really easy, bro. I make`em in my garage all the time.
  76. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 5:30 pm
    So many insecure people in this comment thread. She makes a pretty cute girl. I`m straight and I have girlfriend and I can admit it.

    I don`t get why people are so afraid of their own sexuality. The madder you get the more obvious it is that your dick is probably popping a semi and you`re just mad about it.
  77. Profile photo of Nickel2
    Nickel2 Male 50-59
    5879 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 5:42 pm
    I suspect this is a con.
    Teen girl comes out to parents, then undergoes a 14 month transition from female to male.
    Who switched the photos?
    Which is true?
  78. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 5:51 pm
    "It`s really easy, bro. I make`em in my garage all the time."

    Well that explains all the late night pounding noises we hear from your garage.
  79. Profile photo of Caretta
    Caretta Male 18-29
    540 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm
    I don`t know what kind of timescale I was expecting, but 14 months seemed pretty quick to me.

    I`m not a particularly good judge of guys, but I`m pretty sure she makes a more attractive girl.
  80. Profile photo of thatjimguy
    thatjimguy Male 30-39
    458 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    That is disturbing, yet amazing at the same time.
  81. Profile photo of eduardoleon
    eduardoleon Male 18-29
    500 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm
    whoa she looks better as a girl
  82. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm
    :)
  83. Profile photo of lostinkorea
    lostinkorea Female 30-39
    3727 posts
    July 13, 2012 at 10:48 pm
    You can pretty up the package all you want but you`re not a woman; deal with it!
  84. Profile photo of gothmo
    gothmo Female 18-29
    1324 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:03 am
    @lostinkorea

    how `bout you stay lost? the great thing about medicine and tech now is they can become woman. deep down at the cellular level they`d still be male, but let them live how they want to live instead of feeling trapped.
  85. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:31 am
    Your chromosomes determine sex. Nothing else does.

    By the way, he/she is coming along nicely. To each his/her own.
  86. Profile photo of Zach82
    Zach82 Male 30-39
    319 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 5:38 am
    I don`t have any particular ire against adults who want to make the change, but I really can`t fathom parents paying for their children`s hormones. What the hell does a kid know about himself or anything else?
  87. Profile photo of Sakamura
    Sakamura Male 30-39
    237 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 5:45 am
    Well, it`s ultimately you that determines your sex, I like there`s 12 choices in FetLife, including "not applicable". Even taking chromosomes into account have limitations, Wikipedia shows 12 chromosomes disorders, and that`s a direct disorder, it doesn`t even show the ones applicable to the genes adjacent, that are nearly as important as the sex chrom. themselves.

    I`m a guy, always did, and will be probably until my death, but if I felt misplaced, and needed to switch to something else, I love to know my options are open.

    On topic, good for that girl! I`m glad she was able to go through her fears and talk to her parents about that, get support, and go through that very difficult change. Hope she`ll be better now and can live a peaceful happy life, with a body that represents what she feels she is really.
  88. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 5:46 am

    You can pretty up the package all you want but you`re not a woman; deal with it!
    Get over yourself. Why on earth should anyone have to "deal with" your small-minded, uninformed opinions? I think you`ll find over the course of your life that you`re the only person your ignorance will have an effect upon. The only person that`s going to have to "deal with" the consequences of your ignorance is you.
  89. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 5:50 am

    I don`t have any particular ire against adults who want to make the change, but I really can`t fathom parents paying for their children`s hormones. What the hell does a kid know about himself or anything else?
    So you`d rather make kids go through changes that are inappropriate for them, then try and repair the damage later, than try to avoid hormone damage in the first place? I`m not sure why you feel that`s better. If it`s because you think the kid will change their mind, studies show that most gay and transsexual people know what they are *very* early in life. Most straight people in the right bodies don`t relate to that, becuase the world`s the right shape for them, so they`ve no childhood memory of thinking "this is weird".
  90. Profile photo of Zach82
    Zach82 Male 30-39
    319 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 5:51 am
    Also, if you`re so terrified of "hooking up" with a girl with a willy, might I recommend picking up least a little old fashioned "no sex until the third date" prudishness. Don`t blame this poor girl for YOUR complete lack of prudence.
  91. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:01 am

    >>>Your chromosomes determine sex. Nothing else does.<<<

    Oh really? So, babies popping out of the womb are men and women from then onwards, and nothing at all happens between their birth and adulthood to make them into the beings they eventually become?

    What about intersex conditions? Where do those fall in the two boxes that exist in your mind? What about women with AIS? They`re born with a vagina, are categorised as and develop as female, look like females at every stage in their lives, and generally identify as female. However, their condition is a result of their bodies not responding to testosterone in the way that other XY individuals do, right from their time in the womb onwards. You going to tell them they`re not women because you can see their cellular makeup?

    ...
  92. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:01 am

    The trouble with gross over-simplifications like yours is you always end up including or excluding people you don`t intend.
  93. Profile photo of Zach82
    Zach82 Male 30-39
    319 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:02 am
    Maybe I`m just old fashioned, MacGuffin. I will call a transgendered person whatever they like, and I will always deplore prejudice against the transgendered, but I when it comes to children I think the better policy is to teach them to love themselves as they are.
  94. Profile photo of Sakamura
    Sakamura Male 30-39
    237 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:14 am
    Zach82: Let`s do some analogy. Let`s pretend your arms are all crooked up. Congenital disease. You were born with that. As a parent, would you actually shell up the money for treatments, however painful and hard, to repair that issue with your kid while they are still young? Why do you think we have braces while we are growing up?

    Once that`s out of the way, we can live our lives "as is", and really love ourselves, without having to "accept" anything. It really requires guts, and perseeverance, and endurance to go through that kind of change, it`s not like they are saying "hey, let`s do that, it`ll be fun".

    But I understand your concern, that said. I had time to make up my opinions because 2 of my friends had to go through this. It`s hard, but they`re happy in the end.
  95. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:22 am

    Maybe I`m just old fashioned, MacGuffin. I will call a transgendered person whatever they like, and I will always deplore prejudice against the transgendered, but I when it comes to children I think the better policy is to teach them to love themselves as they are.
    In that statement you`re revealing that you believe these things to be a choice, that can be learned or unlearned. Which, FWIW, most research and certainly most expressed opinion by the people it affects indicates it`s not. Who on earth, adult or child, would *choose* to go through that hell?

    If you want to understand the concept as a straight person that`s comfortable in their own body and has never had to face anything like it, just think of a food you loathed and that your parents made you eat as a child. Did any of that forcing change your mind about how wrong other people`s choices and preferences were for you?
  96. Profile photo of pumba62
    pumba62 Male 40-49
    1018 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 6:47 am
    It is not like TG`s wake up one morning and say...hey I want to change my gender.
    They have gone through years of turmoil and self doubt ....even before they start treatment they need to spend time "on the couch" just to determine their true feelings
  97. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 7:16 am
    #1: I`m so glad I (wisely) avoided this particular debate!
    #2: Dr. Adder a novel by K.W. Jeter.
    #3: Dude Look Like A Lady!

    K?
    #1 I may be notorious for my opinions on gayness, but I have no problem at all with transgendered person, pre- or post- operative. (SEE: List of things 5Cats finds Kinky, page 3)

    #2 HOWEVER radical surgical proceedures to fulfil sexual fetishes are NOT something I`d suggest for ANYONE! Hey, if you`re that determined go ahead, but don`t expect others to support you.
    Sawing off an arm or a leg =/= happiness! And if you think that "never happens" you are SADLY misinformed.

    #3 I cannot believe no one has mentioned this, LOLZ!
  98. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 7:22 am
    Hint: Go find "Dr Adder" and read it! It truely is the FIRST "CyberPunk" novel, but waited 10 years between being written & being published.

    Why a 10 year delay? Here`s another hint: IF you can get past "the chicken" in the opening chapter without vomiting? You`ll likely survive the rest of the GRAPHIC VIOLENCE and HORRIFIC SITUATIONS, both described and implied, which follow.

    It`s not a "gore-fest" or anything, all the violence and depravity "make sense" within the context of the book. By modern standards it`s actually quite mild... afaik.
  99. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 7:34 am

    I may be notorious for my opinions on gayness, but I have no problem at all with transgendered person, pre- or post- operative. (SEE: List of things 5Cats finds Kinky, page 3)
    Yes, isn`t it fortunate that you managed to defty avoid revealing any unsavoury opinions in this thread, 5Cats? FWIW, most of the transsexual people I`ve met have "guys that are interested in them because and not in spite of their background" at the top of their creep-out list. Even idiots like aj that mistakenly believe transsexuals would be interested in someone with his prejudices creep trannies out less than chasers do.
  100. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 9:31 am
    Totally missed the point, even still.

    Like I said yesterday, drat off. I haven`t even said anything to you.

    What is your deal? Seriously? Someone says something you don`t like, or has an opinion you don`t share, and you stone them. It`s really, really bad.

    I have said repeatedly, to each his own, I support this, etc. etc, but I am still met with hatred from you as if I DON`T think what this person is doing is okay.

    I do.

    I made the comment that Sex is determined by chromosomes. You know that is undeniably true. I never said you couldn`t live as a member of the opposite sex. You ASS-U-MEd I said that.

    Also, no poo Shirley. Of course a transgendered male to female wouldn`t pick me up, because I would be saying all the things I have said here the whole time we talked to every one in the pub right?

    Wait a sec. That`s what we were talking about before; DISCLOSURE.

    How `bout we just agree to disagree. To each his own. Yo
  101. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 9:32 am
    How `bout we just agree to disagree. To each his own. You believe what you want, I won`t prosecute you for it.
  102. Profile photo of lostinkorea
    lostinkorea Female 30-39
    3727 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 10:55 am
    Get over yourself. Why on earth should anyone have to "deal with" your small-minded, uninformed opinions? I think you`ll find over the course of your life that you`re the only person your ignorance will have an effect upon. The only person that`s going to have to "deal with" the consequences of your ignorance is you.
    __

    It`s not really up for debate and I`m not going to continue to go back and forth with you. HE will never have the biological/physical/metaphysical attributes that we have. Like I said, you can choose to change certain things but that does not make you that specific thing/entity/being. If you tan, that does not make you black. If you immerse yourself in a specific culture (e.g. Chinese) and learn the language, that does not make you Chinese. If you put on heels, makeup and pop some pills, that does not make you a woman. And with all the anger you spew on IAB, you should take some of that and fight for a cause of some kind. And remember,
  103. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:04 am

    However you might feel about it, aj, I`ll continue to have opinions that may differ from yours, and I`ll continue to express them. Deal with it.

    I notice that despite the simplistic view you`ve expressed twice now that "Sex is determined by chromosomes" (and nothing else, such as hormones that only kick in much later, and environmental and societal factors), you were unable to answer my simple question about women with AIS. All the women in this picture have exactly the same chromosomal makeup as you do - XY - despite only ever having lived as women since birth:



    There are similar conditions where XX individuals have phenotypically male bodies from birth and identify as straight men. Does their characteristically female XY chromosomal makeup make them the women you`d rather hit on in bars?

    ...
  104. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:05 am

    I don`t doubt I`ll never get through to someone as self-centred and ignorant as you. I can`t say as I really care about that. I`m just glad that most people in society are intelligent enough not to share your small-minded views.

    As for your own prospects in life, chances are if you keep on picking people up in bars in the way you described, you will inadvertently at some point find yourself attracted to someone that has a different background to the one you had assumed. When and if that happens to you, you`ll just have to deal with it.

    ...
  105. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Your only other options are to go around with a t-shirt saying "no trannies please" and let people self-select based on disclosure of your prejudices from you, or for you to live a very lonely life indeed. Because I can assure you, nobody is going to go around sharing their private medical history with you merely because you throw a lame pick-up line in their direction in a bar. Most people with that type of background will simply consider that anyone their medical history would have been a problem for, is exactly the sort of person they wouldn`t choose to share it with and whose opinions and prejudices they don`t care about.
  106. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:07 am

    It`s not really up for debate and I`m not going to continue to go back and forth with you. HE will never have the biological/physical/metaphysical attributes that we have. Like I said, you can choose to change certain things but that does not make you that specific thing/entity/being. If you tan, that does not make you black. If you immerse yourself in a specific culture (e.g. Chinese) and learn the language, that does not make you Chinese...

    If you imagine that someone else`s self-identity is determined by what you think, you`re delusional. As I said, the only person your ignorance will affect in your life is you. Deal with it.
  107. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:17 am
    Here`s what I was trying to say, because you KEEP MISSING THE POINT.

    Here`s how you approach this, as you do all other things:

    MacGuffin: drat YOU! YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW ON THIS SO drat YOU! YOU ARE AN IDIOT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE EXACTLY AS I DO! YOU MAY NOT LIVE HOW YOU WANT TO LIVE BUT I CAN! MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    This is what`s wrong with the world.
  108. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:18 am
    Also, all those ladies, are still men.

    The fact that they are xy, prevents them from having children, but they can father children can they not?
  109. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:32 am

    The fact that they are xy, prevents them from having children, but they can father children can they not?
    And how on earth do you image they`d be able to do that? They don`t have a penis, never have had one, and are unable to produce sperm.
  110. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:35 am

    On the other hand, it has been shown that it`s possible for two XX women to produce a baby without a man`s involvement. Does that make them "men"?
  111. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:38 am
    spacebarout.you`reright.max40characters.
  112. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:38 am
    see.isn`tthateasy?
  113. Profile photo of JonasQuim
    JonasQuim Male 18-29
    115 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Scary... imagine if this was a chick you got with and didn`t know, errgh
  114. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    HAHAHAHAHA!
  115. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    You attempting to do HTML again, aj?
  116. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:26 pm
    3
    posts
    earlier
    I
    told
    you
    spacebar
    broke.

    Don`t
    be
    a
    douche
    hahahaha.:)
  117. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    @Jonasquim

    "Scary... imagine if this was a chick you got with and didn`t know, errgh"


    Well if you didn`t know.. why the `errgh`?
  118. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 7:49 pm
    @MacGuffin: If someone has both female appearence (breasts, Adam`s Apple removed) AND a penis? I think the ENTIRE POINT is to attract someone with that particular (shemale) fetish.

    Also I was making a "funny" eh? Page 3 of my list of kinks? Over your head I suppose... (yes that refers to a previous insult you made towards me, cats never forget!)

    @LostinKorea is correct: You can dress up however you like, it won`t make you anything other than what you are! A close aproximation perhaps, but an ersatz one at best.

    @MacGuffin your link refers to a completely UN-natural method, much like cloning, eh?
    So (I humbly ask) f-ing what?
    A woman can have her self-cloned egg implanted too: she doesn`t need another male OR female! Just a petri dish!
  119. Profile photo of HerColdHands
    HerColdHands Female 18-29
    471 posts
    July 14, 2012 at 10:32 pm
    Not bad :)
  120. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    July 15, 2012 at 3:57 am
    @5cats

    " If someone has both female appearence (breasts, Adam`s Apple removed) AND a penis? I think the ENTIRE POINT is to attract someone with that particular (shemale) fetish."

    Or the ENTIRE point could be they`re waiting for further surgery to make themselves feel complete couldn`t it? It`s not like all the surgeries would be done at the same time. Which is more likely than they`re just trying to attract someone with a fetish as you seem to be saying isn`t it?
  121. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    July 15, 2012 at 11:25 am
    @listypoos: Charecter count Bro! I cannot cover ALL the bases eh? I get blamed for plastering up "walls of text" and triple-posting as it is! lolz!

    Yes, in the scenario you mention it`s true enough. However I`d say the majority of all "reassignment" cases stop, or at least have a long pause, at the "shemale" stage...

    Best of both worlds! Or so they tell me. :-D
  122. Profile photo of Adcro
    Adcro Male 18-29
    369 posts
    July 17, 2012 at 5:20 am
    Whatever makes you happy :)

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