Britain maimed, tortured or killed 90,000 Kenyans

Submitted by: MacGuffin 4 years ago in
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18874040

...during the "50s Mau Mau rebellion. And today"s government still refuses to pay compensation to the victims.
There are 45 comments:
Male 14,332
@college

1950s and 1960s means people that it happened to may still be alive tell me when you were a slave? Are you a vampire?
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Male 3,745
McGovern1981: what are you getting at? this happened years ago as well...that just makes it worse :| its something that was supposed to have been done a long time ago but they haven`t and obviously won`t do.

all im saying is that dont go trying to drill holes in other peoples boats when you yourself dont even have all your leaks checked out.
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Male 14,332
[quote]kinda like how the US still hasn`t paid reparations to african americans? [/quote]

For something that happen generations ago? Besides it`s called welfare. I guess I got a check coming from the UK too then....
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Male 14,332
UK likes to dish it out but can`t take it when they get they`re own medicine. Why don`t you guys tell us what you sprayed jewish refugees down with after WW2 while you`re at it. Then give the queen another raise and give the prince the highest military rank possible! Wonder what that pays?
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Male 5,413
What a scumbag government.
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Male 1,364
the only ones who ever paid for the genocide they comitted are the evil germans.
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Male 3,745
kinda like how the US still hasn`t paid reparations to african americans? don`t poo talk about other countries. apparently we`ve gotten past that so get past this too...
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Male 514
How does Obama feel about this?
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Male 646
Any argument against paying back these 3 people is invalid as long as the queen keeps wearing the crown jewels, many of which came from mines that belonged to colonized countries.
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Male 2,737
Britain has it`s own problems with the bad teeth,and keeping the royal family happy.
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Female 7,866
I know mcGuffin- but I know at some point during that time a compound on her parents farm was got at and most in it were killed- and very nastily- children too. She will not go into details as she found some of the bodies and it still upsets her- but her father had given his workers guns to protect themselves, sadly they did not get a chance to use them. I am not excusing it at all- just pointing out that the British responded to an uprising in kind- and then some. No- the Holocaust was not right either- but when we look at historical events we need to look at them in context. Why did Hilter get to the point where he could enact the Holocaust- because he was seem by the German people as a hero. I repeat- what we did was not right- but we need to look at the whole picture in context- obviously it was a nasty dirty time- if not it would not have been kept so quiet. Africa was brutal- still is in places- and sadly things like this are all too common.
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Male 646
no no no... I said S.H.I.T...
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Male 646
"Kenya is a better country today because of us."

Well that`s some dumb poo to say
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Male 317
Yes, big powerful empires/superpowers throughout history tend to do morally objectionable sh*t. Please tell us more admiral obvious.

Kenya is a better country today because of us.
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Female 2,602

>>>The point is that your comment is unbalanced. I agreed that the British did some terrible things there. I don`t know the source of your 90,000 figure, so its accuracy cannot be judged in any way.<<<

The figure I used comes from this BBC article, which in turn quotes The Kenya Human Rights Commission:

"The Kenya Human Rights Commission has said 90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed during the crackdown, and 160,000 were detained in appalling conditions.

David Anderson, professor of African Politics at Oxford University, says he estimates the death toll in the conflict to have been as high as 25,000."

So now you know the source.
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Female 2,602

[quote]...by the mores of the time the British actions were not quite so bad...[/quote]
Come off it, madduck. The mass rape of 15-year-old girls and the widespread mutilation of men by cutting off their genitals is bad by anybody`s mores, however many people supported it and looked the other way at the time it was happening. Was the Holocaust right because it was deemed acceptable by the mores of the Third Reich?
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Female 7,866
I work for a lady who worked in Kenya and lived through MauMau. it was pretty grim by all accounts- terrible violence all round. Many Africans were butchered by other tribes or factions, and many were in daily fear for their lives. Not in any way saying what we did was right, but there are two sides to this, and by the mores of the time the British actions were not quite so bad. Another era- one we should learn from and not repeat- but people thought differently then...
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Female 2,602

[quote]The British Empire killed and tortured a lot of people they considered `heathens`, back in the day, in many locations. India, China, Africa, Australia and the Americas, natives of most all those `colonies` were treated badly.

But you don`t see the others suing England for reparations. [/quote]
And what is your point?
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Female 2,602

[quote]Bygones[/quote]
So, by the same token you Americans should stop bitching about 911, al Quaida in general, present-day Iran just because they stormed your embassy 30 years ago, and not to mention all those millions of convicted citizens you should let out of prison immediately.......because all that stuff they did is in the past, right?
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Male 766
That was 50 yrs ago. Does anybody really care? War sux but man has been doing it since he first got off of all fours and learned to walk. We are the only species smart enough to screw each other over. Some accomplishment to be proud of eh? This is just another grab for free money by a failed government lacking the balls to actually improve their own lot in life. Don`t believe reparations would actually get to people that need it . . .
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Male 1,293
MacGuffin

The point is that your comment is unbalanced. I agreed that the British did some terrible things there. I don`t know the source of your 90,000 figure, so its accuracy cannot be judged in any way.

However the choice was never between British rule and paradise on Earth. the choice was not between British resistance to the Mau Mau, with many innocent casualties, and peace and puppies for everyone.

That is the problem with taking cases like this and blaming one party. The alternative would often have been far, far worse.

The point I made about the communists is that the alternative would, we know, have been far better in every case, in addition to the saving of the lives the communists destroyed. It is relevant to this case because the Mau Mau were inspired partly by communism, and looking at the history of much of Africa the alternative to what actually occurred was probably communism.
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Male 340
White Guilt spreads to Europe!
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Male 3,147
yeah we did awful poo... and still do - but did anyone really think we built the largest empire that civilisation has ever known (by land area) by holding coffee mornings and sit-down meetings? No... we went wherever we could and either lied, cheated, or killed little brown folks for it.

Should we try and take back some moral highground by apologizing and making reparations? Of course. It would set an example that few other countries would be willing to follow, but an example that at least would do some repair to our reputation.

These days the Mau Mau (as they were then) would be labelled terrorists... because it`s us they were rebelling against. Take a look at Libya though... where we classed violent protesters as freedom fighters so we could justify bombing them and overthrowing the government we didn`t like - that`s how it works like it or not... those we like are freedom fighters, those we don`t like are terrorists.
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Male 17,512
The British Empire killed and tortured a lot of people they considered `heathens`, back in the day, in many locations. India, China, Africa, Australia and the Americas, natives of most all those `colonies` were treated badly.

But you don`t see the others suing England for reparations.
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Male 38,481

Bygones.
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Male 14,834
meh. Forgive and forget.
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Male 15,510
But of course, nothing happens because "It`s a First World thing"
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Male 2,422
Empires are a source of suffering and moral rot and the resistances they create are rarely any better. At least if the British had invested in Kenya in the way they did with India something good could have come of it.
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Male 3,894
@randomxnp: By your logic, any ideology that undertakes a war to assert itself over the currently used one is horrible and inhumane.

Think of all the poor souls lost in the revolutionary war, all for the sake of cruel and unfeeling democracy.
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Female 2,602

[quote]The Mau Mau were violent communist-inspired rebels who had little popular support yet caused a lot of death and suffering. who have they compensated? No communists have ever paid for the tens of millions killed and billions harmed by this horrific, inhuman ideology.[/quote]
And none of the people seeking compensation in this court case were members of the Mau Mau. One of them was a 15 year old girl that was repeatedly raped. Another was a man that had his penis cut off.

And even if we were talking about actual Mau Mau members, would that mean they shouldn`t be entitled to compensation too? What about members of the French Resistance that were tortured during WWII? Or is it only white `terrorists` that we uphold the human rights of?
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Female 2,602

[quote]Who said they had any rights to do so? Since when did that stop anyone.[/quote]
It would help a great deal if you spoke more clearly. I`ve literally no idea who you mean by "they" and "do so" in the sentence above.

...
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Male 1,293
MacGuffin

Who said they had any rights to do so? Since when did that stop anyone.

The Mau Mau were violent communist-inspired rebels who had little popular support yet caused a lot of death and suffering. who have they compensated? No communists have ever paid for the tens of millions killed and billions harmed by this horrific, inhuman ideology.

One can have sympathy for those who suffered, and can condemn acts that were carried out, but must recognise the necessity of defeating the Mau Mau and the far greater harm caused by the rebels.
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Male 325
England <> Britain
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Male 1,442
Oh we have a much longer and more bloody history then this. It is not like we don`t do anything to try and make amends...

Aim some of that billion towards the victems?
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Male 1,678
If Britain admitted financial responsibility for the horrible atrocities the nation has committed in the past they could borrow every pound, euro, dollar, lira, yen etc.. in the world and still be billions short.
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Male 1,754
Oh England...ya bastards!
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Female 2,602

[quote]We`re paying for it big-time. They can come and live here, claim benefits, cars, houses the lot.[/quote]
No, they can`t. Kenyans have no de facto right of residence in the EU.
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Female 2,602

[quote]Moreover, why would money even right this wrong? It`s just money.[/quote]
Who said it would right this wrong?

It would make the victims` lives easier now. And it would punish the society that wronged them. Nobody is suggesting it would make the past right.

Similarly, the reparations paid after the World Wars of the twentieth century didn`t make the wartime actions of those that paid them right. It doesn`t mean the reparations were a bad idea.
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Male 7,775
We`re paying for it big-time. They can come and live here, claim benefits, cars, houses the lot.
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Male 2,578
Everyone seems to be a victim in today`s society. Everyone wants their hands on some free stuff they deserve because of what happened way back when.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world to "pay for" all the injustice that has occurred in the world. Moreover, why would money even right this wrong? It`s just money. It`s almost insulting....imagine if you rape somebody and then offer them a thousand bucks after it`s all done to make it right. It`s just weird.
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Male 3,909
@beternal - Really?! The level of stupidity in your comment is astounding!!!
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Male 2,345
I lived and worked in Kenya (Nairobi, Eldoret and Kisumu) for a few years, the Mau Mau (which means run, run) happened and yes the British did horrible things but even before the rebellion happened the did far worse things.

then, when England had no money let after WWII they started dumping their colonies and in 1963 they dumped Kenya, overnight and left them with no experience on how to run an organized Western Style government and ZERO dollars to do it on.

you know what happened from there...
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Female 2,602

>>>Yeah it happened... but it`s on par with America not clearing all those unexploded bombs out of Vietnam<<<


Nice to know that ad hominem tu quoque isn`t exclusively an American thing. What America may have done during the Vietnam War is irrelevant to this issue.
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Male 2,586
Yeah it happened... but it`s on par with America not clearing all those unexploded bombs out of Vietnam
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Female 2,602
Link: Britain maimed, tortured or killed 90,000 Kenyans [Rate Link] - ...during the `50s Mau Mau rebellion. And today`s government still refuses to pay compensation to the victims.
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