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Date: 06/30/12 12:45 PM

42 Responses to The Truth About the Fast and Furious Scandal[Pic+]

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 7:12 am
    Link: The Truth About the Fast and Furious Scandal - Did the Federal Bureau of the ATF intentionally allow firearms to get into the hands of Mexican drug cartels?
  2. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Jesus jumped up Christ! Another Fast and Furious post. I am getting so done with this site. It is becoming a propaganda machine for the far right. I`m out of here.
  3. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    Wow Markust. God forbid the news get out!

    Lemee get this straight. When the news is bad for the right, it`s funny. When the table is balanced though......

    "Jesus jumped up Christ! Another Fast and Furious post. I am getting so done with this site. It is becoming a propaganda machine for the far right. I`m out of here."

    I think I finally understand......
  4. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36176 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Markust....take a chill pill dude.
    IAB a "propaganda machine for the far right" ?
    You`ve lost your marbles.
    The far right doesn`t like gays or gay marriage.
    The far right is pro gun but IAB has refused to post my pro-gun video.


    P.S. I went and saw MAGIC MIKE. Not even Channing Tatum`s bare butt could make that movie good.
  5. Profile photo of Brometheus
    Brometheus Male 30-39
    376 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    Yes, they intentionally let the guns fall into drug cartel hands with the intention of tracking them....then lost track of them. And I heard that on NPR markest123, which is about as right-wing as IAB.
  6. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    I take back my original comment. The link goes to a legitimate story that tells the truth about Fast and Furious. Anyone who is a fan of Fox News should read the article to learn how much they are lied to on a daily basis. I doubt any of the angry parrots on here will read the story though. Even though it is in a right leaning magazine.
  7. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    I read the story.

    You still think I-A-B is a right wing propaganda site.
  8. Profile photo of dubtac
    dubtac Male 18-29
    29 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm
    No amount of gun control measures with keep criminals without firearms period. Lets face it all it would take is one pressed American politician to give all the legally owned firearm information to the cartels so they know where to aim their assaults within America. Our GOVERNMENT encase no one has been watching has a poor track record with hiding national security secrets. Electronic monitoring of my firearm purchases seriously Jeopardizes my safety, my families safety, and every other responsible gun owners safety. Our government plays an unsafe game with our privacy regarding firearm purchasing the criminals, foreign nations good and bad WIN in regards of gun control. Amazing how many people are so willing to hand away their rights of privacy to the government.
  9. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm
    markust123, I wondered if you had read it.
  10. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    for those that did not take the time to read the article, here is the gist.

    this article SLAMS the right wing for making this issuen political.

    it also clearly provides testimony from several ATF agents that refute that weapons were allowed to "walk" into mexico without interdiction.

    it clearly shows how the ATF was not allowed to seize weapons on many occasions because Arizona gun laws are so lose and the NRA has hamstrung their ability to enforce gun laws.

    this article shows why the ATF did NOT intentinonally let weapons go into mexico, set up such a tactic or otherwise.

    it also spells out why Obama used exc privilege to stop documents from being released. namely, those documents are currently part of ongoing investigations and CANNOT be legally released.

    in other words, this article, which is exhuastive in its invetigative efforts, PROVES the ATF messed up but not on purpose and

    that the right wingers seized
  11. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    "it also spells out why Obama used exc privilege to stop documents from being released. namely, those documents are currently part of ongoing investigations and CANNOT be legally released."

    Executive privilege cannot be used for this. It can only be used in cases of the President`s PERSONAL (not matters of state) correspondence, OR in a case of national security.

    F and F is not a case of either, so why use Executive Privilege? What is he hiding? Congress has the right to summon those documents.

    It`s another case of Obama acting like a king.
  12. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    I have to laugh at the people who are trying to make our President out to be a monster for using Executive Privilege in this instance. W used it to protect the details of Vice President Dick Cheney`s meetings with energy executives. This is President Obama`s first Executive Privilege. That actually shows a great deal of restraint. Clinton used it 14 times. W 6.
  13. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    "W used it to protect the details of Vice President Dick Cheney`s meetings with energy executives."

    This was also pooty. The congress (controlled by Democrats) should have called him out on it.
  14. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    A typical "hit piece" where lies are presented as "facts" and the truth is called a "conspiracy".

    Second paragraph: It`s a lie! Gun registry in the USA WOULD NOT slow the flow of guns into Mexico IN ANY WAY!

    lolz, @jamie26 is passing out the kool-aid, far from a surprise!

    "that the right wingers seized..." Oooo, cut off by lettercounter: power? Control? It`s just a "vast right wing conspiracy" eh?
  15. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    "The congress (controlled by Democrats) should have called him out on it."

    A Senate of 51 Democrats is not control. There are aways a couple blue dog Democrats from the Southern states that vote with the Republicans. Obama couple barely get control with 55 Democrats because of the blue dogs.
  16. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    "A typical "hit piece" where lies are presented as "facts" and the truth is called a "conspiracy". "

    This is from Fortune Magazine which is noticeably right leaning. Once again why let facts get in the way.
  17. Profile photo of faustsshadow
    faustsshadow Male 30-39
    418 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 2:56 pm
    Again - claiming that Bush did something first does not make Obama any less crappy.

    Claiming that Twilight sucks, does not make every other pooty book any better.
  18. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 3:09 pm
    This is from Fortune Magazine
    OOoo! I was fooled by it being called "CNN Money" since, you know, CNN is so vastly `right wing` eh?

    Oh wait, your "facts" @markust, leave MUCH to be desired...

    A Senate of 51 Democrats
    CONGRESS =/= SENATE!
    What have you been smoking boy? LOLZ!
  19. Profile photo of paco664
    paco664 Male 40-49
    159 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm
    this "report" is the beginning of the libs assault on the 2nd amendment...

    they allowed these known "straw" purchases and allowed them to walk.. knowingly.... and it is holder and obamas fault DIRECTLY for the death of agent terry.....

    both should be tried and imprisoned...

    bastards...
  20. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 4:11 pm
    "this "report" is the beginning of the libs assault on the 2nd amendment."

    This "report" is from Fortune Magazine which is right leaning. And according to the article the lax gun laws in Arizona are what actually caused most of the problems. But again why let a little thing like facts or reading get in the way.
  21. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 4:18 pm
    "But again why let a little thing like facts or reading get in the way."

    And yes kitteh9lives I do realize my hypocrisy in the "reading" part. Sorry for the initial knee jerk reaction. I saw two stories on F&F and jumped to conclusions.
  22. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm
    @markust: First of all, if CNN OWNS Fortune, or even vice-versa, HOW can they be "right leaning"?
    Second: FEW magazines or papers in the USA `lean right`. I think the proper term is: "Is Not A Leftist House Organ"
    Third: Do you even know what a "House Organ" is?
    Fourth: HOW does the "leaning" of the source change the FACTS of the case?

    In this case, the FACT at hand IS: It`s a one-sided, left-leaning article whose sole purpose is to SPIN for Obama.

    Of couse YOU think IAB "leans right" ffs...
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    markust123: Fortune magazine is about as `right leaning as Daily Kos. When, not if, the documents are made available you will see evidence that makes `watergate` look like kids play.

    Holder Lied, Brian Terry Died.
  24. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 8:41 pm
    I don`t really see why this is a political issue at all. The ATF gunwalking methods began under the Bush administration under Operation Wide Receiver. It was not sanctioned by higher officials, but it was still carried out by Newell and the Phoenix field office of the ATF. Under Obama, the Phoenix field office conducted a broader operation called Fast & Furious, which was essentially the same as Wide Receiver, but did differ in magnitude.

    In both cases, guns were intentionally placed in the hands of members of Mexican arms dealers - in the hope that these would allow the administration to identify and prosecute the heads of these organizations.

    It didn`t work - in either case - but I`m not sure if that means it was a bad idea. Unfortunately for the Obama administration, Terry died. But, honestly, that`s the nature of border patrol during a period of extreme violence.
  25. Profile photo of jprest13
    jprest13 Male 18-29
    20 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 9:44 pm
    executive privilege. for them to abuse their authority, and for us to let our government to go rouge and do as it pleases.
  26. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 12:04 am
    @simbha: iirc the ATF under Bush "walked" about 45 guns, tracking every one of them.

    Under Obama (Holder) they "walked" 2600+ guns, lost them ALL, covered it up, and simply waited for them to be used in crimes to gather "data". They threatened legal gun dealers with arrest if they (legally) REFUSED to sell guns to the shadey creeps who bought them.

    @CrakrJak knows the facts better, but that`s the short version.
  27. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 1:13 am
    Issa released the wiretaps into the congressional record. Here

    These wiretaps clearly point to the fact that top-level officials at the ATF and DOj signed off on letting guns `walk`.

    For 10 months Holder claimed he knew nothing at about it. E-mails were found that shown that holder DID indeed know about it, then he changed his story. Now Holder and Obama are hiding documents illegally that detail the cover-up.

    Holder Lied, Brian Terry Died.
  28. Profile photo of Profworm
    Profworm Male 30-39
    379 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 2:13 am
    @jpriest13

    I went rouge once, but it wasn`t really my color.
  29. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 4:49 am
    So, who again started Gun Walking? Who again approved it? Which administration? Whatever.
  30. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 8:26 am
    This Fortune BS has been thoroughly debunked.

    Townhall.com

    NRO

    Why would the ATF deny it if it were as Fortune says? Why would the Justice Dept/Holder deny it? You lefties are full of s#it, as usual.
  31. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 9:19 am
    This sensational non-story is dead. Take a look at cnn.com, foxnews.com and msnbc.com. No mention of it anywhere. There`s one tiny line deep down under the politics quick look section of Fox News. It is no longer a headline. No amount of Fox News propaganda could get this stinker off the ground longer than a few days on standard news sources. And that was mostly all due to this being Obama`s first Executive Privilege. Better find a new non-story to complain about.
  32. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 11:37 am
    It`s very much alive Markust.
  33. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    Sorry, no it isn`t. Look at the big three web sites. No one picked up the story. Your fantasy that this is bigger than Watergate is just that - a fantasy. Fox News will start up again but the other news sources aren`t buying it. The concept of F&F was a really stupid idea that spanned two presidencies. Everyone involved has admitted how bad of an idea it was and there are processes in place to insure that this will never happen again. Sometimes a story can be made out to be bigger than it is but this stinker is not sticking.
  34. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    And to be clear I am saying the story is no longer a headline on any of the three main sites. F&F isn`t even in the latest news section. You have to dig deep into the political section to find anything. Once again RIP Fox induced sensational story of the week.
  35. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    The website I posted is Reuters.

    I`d say they are reputable.

    This article was written this morning.
  36. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    Also, it didn`t span two administrations. Wide Receiver was started under Bush, in full co-operation with the Mexican government. 45 guns were walked into Mexico, tracked, and seized when they got to the illegal buyers.

    Fast and Furious was started in 2010, and it was 2500 guns, without the knowledge of the Mexican government. They were lost before they got to their buyers, so they became weapons of the cartels.

    It`s NOT a non story.
  37. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    *450
  38. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 2:22 pm
    "it didn`t span two administrations."

    I said the concept spanned two administrations. The concept. You have a real hard time with telling the truth don`t you? If one of the 450 guns used in the original plan under Bush ended up being used to kill a border agent do you think Foxnews.com would have had the story front and center every day for six+ months? The chant would have been guns don`t kill people criminals do. This is a political witch hunt and no amount of spin will convince the other news networks otherwise.

    I have watched Fox News spin this story backwards and forwards on foxnews.com for six months. A news organization is not supposed to create news.
  39. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    @markust: The concept of "fighting crime" has spanned MANY administations, right?
    But an Attorney General is appointed by the President. Each one has different views on the "how and why" of it.
    For example: Holder refuses to charge certian people, and you KNOW he has the White House`s blessing or he`d be fired asap!

    So when you compare an operation that was started, executed and completed (ended) with a DIFFERENT one, different AG, Prez, Plan different EVERYTHING and claim it`s one big ongoing project?
    Bananas to you!

    THEN you claim that because the MSM is boycotting the story it must be "no big deal"???
    Riiiight.

    And YES! Bush and Reagan were often blamed by the MSM for things done by underlings! Didn`t I just "remind you" of "Iran-Contra"? So again you are w-r-o-n-g-o!
  40. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31762 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 3:56 pm
    A much better example of how the Attorney General has a LOT of power:

    Janet Reno, under Bill Clinton, ordered the ATF (them again!) to attack the Branch Davidian. Nevermind that they had NO REASON to do so! Nevermind that David knew the ATF was there, had driven alone to town several times (easy to arrest!) NO! They had to over-run the compound.

    When things "went south" Reno stood up and said: It`s all my fault! NOT Clinton, me!
    But it was too late, minutes before in Washington Clinton had already told a press conference "The buck stops here, I`m the one to blame".

    How things have changed!!!
  41. Profile photo of asianchamp
    asianchamp Male 18-29
    414 posts
    July 2, 2012 at 5:51 am
    I thought Vin Diesel was involved..
  42. Profile photo of Palfas
    Palfas Male 30-39
    411 posts
    July 5, 2012 at 7:23 am
    this has thoroughly been debunked...by completely non biased right wing blogs.

    The reason there`s all this fuss on the right about F&F is because they know the real problem is the lax laws that allow these guns to flow into mexico in the first place.

    It`s completely legal to buy as many assault rifles as you want and then resell them immediately.

    It`s illegal for the Feds to track those purchases in any sort of electronic database (perhaps to identify such straw purchasers).

    No problems here, must be Obamas fault.

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