Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare: Landmark Decision

Submitted by: fancylad 5 years ago in

It went through, America. This is a touchy one. Are you glad? Mad? Raged? Let it all out, I-A-B.
There are 145 comments:
Male 2,591
Cost to have insurance for myself before the act: $2500+/year assuming nothing bad happens to me. Then that cost skyrockets to astronomical figures. (can`t afford, don`t have) Cost after the act from the tax $700/year, even if something bad happens to me. Suck it rich people. I can go to the freakin doctor now. SUCK IT!!
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Male 10,338
The 28% of votes Obama got in Alabama, all from the poorest counties in the state.
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Male 7,378
Mississippi is solidly repulican. Who are these southern toothless democrats you speak of?
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Male 10,338
"Toothless parasites!"

Yes. The lower class welfare leeches in the south are all toothless parasites. You got it!

...and they ALL vote democrat.
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Male 14,331
If this plans so good why do the politicians have their own plan which I might add gives them beter treatment??
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Male 7,378
Oooooh better yet. Toothless parasites! I like it. Gonna remember that one.
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Female 2,228
AJ if you`re talking about sheer numbers of those poor whites there are more of *them* then there are of poor minorities.

But you`re not wrong about the South being Red because of the upper class, after all they benefit the most from people lower on the ladder voting against their own economic and social interests. It pays for them to keep you barefoot, superstitious and constantly hating your neighbor. Seen here in stark Randian terms.
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Male 5,811
@MeGrendel: Your analogy of four tires is misleading since you assume our system is worse axiomatically. If you look at WHO or any other ranking your country`s healthcare is worse than ours, even though you rank the highest on money spent into healthcare. Very efficient system you got, whereas our "slashed tires" universal system, akin to those in France, England, Japan etc. outperform your healthcare.

Basically, a better analogy would be you criticizing my car for having slashed tires with a spare when your car is sitting on blocks.

[quote]Basically, one tier sucks, the other is only available those who pay extra.[/quote]
The universal tier doesn`t suck, sure it has problems but at least there`s an option to help ease the burden. Your argument is pure Nirvana fallacy, and at least when I use the one-tier that "sucks," my premiums don`t go up.
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Male 10,338
My point is, the reason the south is red, is not the poor white trash, but the upper middle class, and the rich establishment.

So drat you and your toothless comment Madest.
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Male 10,338
"but Republicans also have their own group of white lower class voters whose situation isn`t improving either."

That group is a whoooooooooooooooooooole lot smaller than the other one.

Problem is, poor people just don`t vote, as a whole. You guys might win elections more handily if they did.
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Male 14,331
vv Does this plan include dental?!?!?!
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Male 7,378
@FoolsPrussia, You forgot toothless.
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Male 3,445
@McGovern: I don`t think you`re Republican. I`m just pointing out that a lot of states that vote strongly conservative, Mississippi for example, have high rates of welfare usage, as well as crippling poverty and unemployment. So you can make the statement that people who are poor stay poor because they vote Democrat, but Republicans also have their own group of white lower class voters whose situation isn`t improving either.
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Male 3,369
@Gerry: Or, he realized that this was good for insurance companies.
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Male 14,331
@FoolsPrussia

You seem to think I`m a republican I`m not. Here`s the problem with that article...
What defines a red state? That article dosen`t state it. Also how is California 43rd that state has more welfare recipiants than some states. It is also completely broke.


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Male 39,614


I was impressed with his honesty.
During John Roberts confirmation, he said the Supremes were Umpires. They didn`t make the rules, they enforced them. He may be personally against Obamacare, but there was nothing writtin in the Constitution to prevent it. Instead of justifying his politics, he made an honest call. He didn`t like it, but he made it.

Holiday Everyone! Someone in Washington was honest!


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Male 14,331
So the plan is if you can`t afford health insurance you will have to pay a tax? Now forcing someone to pay a tax for not buying a product sounds pretty unconstitutional to me. Not to mention if they can`t afford health insurance then how could they pay the tax?
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Male 39,614

I like that they were in such a rush FOX & CNN got it wrong...



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Male 219
Wow...Madest with another anti-republican rant...who would have guessed...

Maybe if we just ignore him the troll will go back to sleep...
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Male 40,401
[quote]You cannot pretend that what you spew isn`t complete and utter nonsense.[/quote]

Why not @madest YOU DO IT EVERY TIME YOU POST!
ffs, you`re the ultimate hypocrite.
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Male 10,338
I hope everything goes well for you. Be safe man.
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Male 7,378
AJ, I don`t care. What I`m supposed to have sympathy for hypocrites? No thanks. It takes a hypocrite to have sympathy for CJ.
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Male 10,338
Madest: What if Crakr cannot get a job in his field because of his disability?

It`s perfectly for the OWS drat ups to complain about being unemployed/underemployed, while taking government handouts, just because they can`t get a job that applies their majors right?

I wish they could find a job using a degree in applied women`s studies too, but it`s just not in the cards right now. I guess they will have to settle for welfare and medicaid.

At least Crakr tried, and got hurt, you heartless buffoon.
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Male 10,338
Actually, Roberts is a genius.

Obama said this isn`t a tax, but it passed SCOTUS as a...... TAX!

Republicans have even more ammo now, than if it failed!

Obama. Liar liar, pants on fire.

Couple this, with Fast and Furious, and it seems like we have a race for the White House on our hands!
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Male 7,378
CJ, You are the inner city drain that you complain about. The hoodied Trayvon Martin trying to scam his way through a gated community with a donated bag of Skittles. You are the reason you complain about taxes. I don`t know what your disability is but you can type at computer all day. There`s a job out there with your name on it but I doubt you have the desire to look for it. You`ve become so accustomed to sucking that government nipple you don`t have sympathy for people like you. Get a job, pay some taxes and STFU. While your at it frame a picture of Obama and hang it on the living room wall of your double wide, you need him more than I do.
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Male 254
Public healthcare huh? Glad you could join us america

Yours sincerely,
Rest of the Civilised world
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Male 9,534
Crakr

"There are hundreds of free clinics all over America. Apparently you`re still clueless about healthcare. If you don`t know where to find them, look here."

I went to your link. There were 2 in all of Phoenix. 2 clinics for 4 million people. You`re right. Plenty to go around.
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Female 2,228
I never thought I`d be saying this, to Cons, but


Gaze ye upon this face and despair.

This SCOTUS is awfully like dealing with a mixed bag of nuts, but every once in a while when you tip the bag just right they fall out in some really....interesting patterns. ;-)
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Male 4,863
5 pages of angry parrots and gloating parrots. I think I will Pass.
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Male 52
It`s a start.
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Male 15,832
@John Roberts: the lowest level of hell is reserved for traitors.
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Male 316
Not touching this one.
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Male 17,512
madest: There are hundreds of free clinics all over America. Apparently you`re still clueless about healthcare. If you don`t know where to find them, look here.
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Male 3,445
Originally posted by McGovern:


"Red States — the ones governed by folks who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut — are a net drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out in federal taxes."

"Of the twenty worst states, 16 are either Republican dominated or conservative states."

Link
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Male 3,369
LillianDulci: "
And? In America, need a hip replacement? Have money, have it done right away. Have no money, never have it done. I`d rather have an option, even if it`s maybe not as good or quick, for people who can`t afford it, than to have no option at all for those people."



This. This is why you knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers are conservative. Mean people suck.
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Male 10,855
[quote] You cannot pretend that what you spew isn`t complete and utter nonsense.[/quote]

Look who`s talking.
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Male 10,855
[quote]i mean i`m not trying to get all preachy but in a perfect world the free market would work but it doesn`t. corperations take advantage, over price ect.[/quote]

The most persistent threat to free markets is that corporations will do anything they can to avoid competition. They`ll collude with govt to make prices artificially high and protect their market share, hence the bans on purchasing health insurance across state lines.

[quote]Please prove me wrong and source this mega list you have of pro bono doctors and where exactly are they?[/quote]

Pretty much any doctor that has plenty of volume on a daily basis that pays the bills. Which, despite our broken health insurance system, were not in short supply. It`s good PR which means more paying customers in the future.
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Male 10,855
[quote] You cannot pretend that what you spew isn`t complete and utter nonsense.[/quote]

Look who`s talking.
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Male 7,378
[quote]Before ObamaCare there were plenty of doctors willing to provide free care to poor.[/quote] --------
Yeah they were called the taxpayer. You cannot pretend that what you spew isn`t complete and utter nonsense. Please prove me wrong and source this mega list you have of pro bono doctors and where exactly are they?
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Male 2,384
@cajun247 would we tho? i dont think they would have passed a law because it was a perfect free market system, i mean i`m not trying to get all preachy but in a perfect world the free market would work but it doesn`t. corperations take advantage, over price ect. with that being said a socialism state wouldnt work either because it would only stimulate black markets and crime
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Male 10,855
[quote] I`d rather have an option, even if it`s maybe not as good or quick, for people who can`t afford it, than to have no option at all for those people.[/quote]

Before ObamaCare there were plenty of doctors willing to provide free care to poor. We`d have more of it with free markets.
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Female 20
TERRIFIC!!!! THANK GOD!
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Male 1,793
Obama 2012...
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Male 7,378
inversegrav, Part of the problem with our society is how ill informed many seem to be. That argument was used in this case, argued before these judges, but instead of electric cars the used broccoli. Please read a paper. Make it a habit. The what-if argument has run it`s course. We know the what ifs of no Obamacare. That`s the what if you might want to consider yourself.
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Male 523
@patchgrabber
I like Canada`s system for the most part, but I think what gren is trying to do is point out some hypocrisy in it with regards to the two-tier system. Either way, it`s irrelevant to the topic at hand. Anyways, our healthcare system right now sucks. We all know it. Making the situation more drated doesn`t really help anything though. Healthcare reform is something our congress needs to WORK towards, not just let the president spew it out of his ass.
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Female 2,674
"Waiting six months for a hip-replacement. But hey, if you`re willing to pay extra, we can slide you in a few months earlier.

Basically, one tier sucks, the other is only available those who pay extra. "

And? In America, need a hip replacement? Have money, have it done right away. Have no money, never have it done. I`d rather have an option, even if it`s maybe not as good or quick, for people who can`t afford it, than to have no option at all for those people.
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Male 523
@viperjason
"If you want to make any difference, then dont vote. A non-vote holds more power than voting "lesser of two evils""

That`s not true. What you need do is show up to the polls, submit a vote, but not check either of them.
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Male 8,447
patchgrabber-"Criticizing a system for evolving and fixing problems is just dumb."

Developing a screwed up system then being proud about fixing one small part of it makes about as much sense slashing all four tires of your car and asking for praise because you found a single spare in the trunk.

patchgrabber-"haven`t given one good reason as to why our two-tier system is bad,"

Waiting six months for a hip-replacement. But hey, if you`re willing to pay extra, we can slide you in a few months earlier.

Basically, one tier sucks, the other is only available those who pay extra.

patchgrabber-"I`m done here."

And so he rides his stick off into the sunset, but in his mind it`s a STALLION!

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Male 770
Madest; Hows about someday the govenment says "You will only drive small electric cars or pay the `I want to drive a 4 door; penalty tax" or maybe the govenmet will say "You will only eat at vegetarian resturants or you will pay the `I want a burger` penalty tax" Or let see the "Every american must buy a gun or pay the `I want to be a victim` penalty tax"

The door is now open that govenment can dictate exactly whay it wants everyone to buy, and by controling what you will buy, it controls how you live.
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Male 7,378
[quote]You`re drated just as much as the rest of us. It`s a shame that you are such a sheep you cannot see it.[/quote] ------------
That`s why you`re stupid. Nothings going to change for me. I have my health, my insurance and I don`t cry at tax time. If I`m a sheep for wanting us to join the modern world where people don`t go bankrupt from an ailment what the hell are you? Never mind, I already know.
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Male 5,811
[quote]And you `solution` is only for people who can afford it.[/quote]


Well dang if that doesn`t sound like a US-type system then what does? You have zero grounds in your argument. Criticizing a system for evolving and fixing problems is just dumb. We went to a universal healthcare system, now we`re using whatever tools we can to fix problems. Just because some provinces think it`s not fair doesn`t matter. These people aren`t taking the spots of those on waiting lists, they`re actually bumping them up. Funny how you think that just because we have universal healthcare that if we do anything not "socialist" that we`re in the wrong or it`s defunct. You`re just poking with red herrings because you have nothing novel to contribute, you haven`t given one good reason as to why our two-tier system is bad, actually, it seems you prefer devil`s advocate. I`m done here.
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Male 2,841
Great, more poo I`ll be forced to buy in the future.
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Male 10,338
Lost? It`s not a game you drating idiot. It`s our drating lives and our country.

You`re drated just as much as the rest of us. It`s a shame that you are such a sheep you cannot see it.

Now tuck your shirt in, and shut the drat up.
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Male 7,378
Waaahhh. Poor republicans. You lost. Get over it. It`s not your world anymore. Tried it your way and it sucked. Now you can suck this.
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Male 546
Does this mean we are even more enslaved to the ruling political class, than before?

Offer them a piece of candy, and they`ll climb into the back of the government van?

For all of you that thinks our healthcare just got better, or will cost less..... Have another sip of Koolaid.

All of you that are under thirty just got a huge tax increase. Can you afford it?
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Male 10,338
"Romney won`t be able to repeal Obamacare not only because Romney will never be president but because the president doesn`t have that power."

....but he can grant waivers to all 50 states, and de-fund it.

Wait. 48 states. Obama already wavered Nebraska and Louisiana.

He can also compel congress to repeal it.

What part of 2/3 of the American people DIDN`T WANT THIS do you not understand? It will go away, before it takes effect.
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Male 68
@ssalty
What in my writing makes you think I believe in the rethugacains?

Both parties are the problem. Both parties have done their part to destroy America.

I`m not saying vote demonicans or rethugacains. I`m saying DO NOT VOTE. Voting says you agree with the system and I now understand that the system is broke, destroyed, and can not be fixed and I refuse to vote for any of them.
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Male 8,447
patchgrabber-"but when a solution pops up you criticize it because...

...because it`s a f`d up system that created the problem (wait times) in the first place.

And you `solution` is only for people who can afford it. Six of you provinces actually BANNED the two-tier system as it wasn`t deemed `fair`. It took a legal ruling in 2005 to force them into it.
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Male 7,378
[quote]Gloat while you can, this fall you`ll be crying in your soup.[/quote] --------
Haha. That`s rich considering the source receives tax payed disability. I`m surprised that brain reminds you to breathe. Romney won`t be able to repeal Obamacare not only because Romney will never be president but because the president doesn`t have that power. Nice try though tea baggin welfare recipient..
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Male 228
viperjason: I can tell you`ve been dragged behind the Republican wagon enough to scramble your thinking. Most of what you wrote is wrong. But stop and try to reason this out. You say `now government can do anything they want`. THEY ALREADY DO! The Republicans have no viable programs to hold up instead of this. All they`re interested in is getting Obama out of the White House. They have done nothing constructive, proposed no legislation to help improve things. They`re so deep in the pockets (and their own) that they refuse to make the 1% - ers pay their share of taxes. Congress as a whole should impose some penalties on the banks and disallow all the bonuses given to the mis-managers of those banks and funds. THEY are trying to destroy America and put their own kind of government in its place. Wise up and open your mind to the reality!
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Male 5,811
@ssalty: Well aside from us living right above you and providing many of your citizens with cheap prescription drugs, I`m pretty sure I can talk about whatever I want in regards to your healthcare, because it affects my country too. Stop living in some isolationist bubble.
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Male 5,811
[quote]Nope, just pointing out the hypocrisy of a socialist medical system breaking down to the point where they institute a two-tier system so that those with money can get preferential treatment.[/quote]
It`s not hypocrisy, it`s a system that actually tries to, I don`t know, FIX problems? You whine about wait times, but when a solution pops up you criticize it because it`s not "socialist." I`m sure people love hearing your thoughts about how things can`t be done, but we`re trying to fix our problems, so stop being a negative-Nancy, because it just makes me want to be a C*nty-McSh|tterman.
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Male 10,855
[quote] Sorry about that. Got in a hurry.[/quote]

Meh it happens.
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Male 228
@ patch & random: You don`t even live here. Express all the opinions you want about your own counties. This is strictly a U.S. issue. If you don`t live here it doesn`t really matter what you think about U.S. issues.
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Male 68
And most miss the point and the worst part of the ruling.
Its not that obamacare was passed...its HOW.
It was declared that the mandate is a tax, so now the government can mandate ANYTHING as long as there is a "non-compliance tax" afixed to it.

So things like:
Everyone must drive american cars or be taxed $10K/yr
Everyone must eat only foods made by company X or be taxed $1K/year

Get the idea...our country is now dead. Our constitution is now dead.

If you want to make any difference, then dont vote. A non-vote holds more power than voting "lesser of two evils"
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Male 8,447
Cajun247-"Grendel I was quoting patchgrabber."

Damn, I even knew that. Sorry about that. Got in a hurry.

patchgrabber-"So your only *argument* against the two-tier system is some spurious appeal to emotion fallacy?"

Nope, just pointing out the hypocrisy of a socialist medical system breaking down to the point where they institute a two-tier system so that those with money can get preferential treatment.
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Male 14,331
@madest

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Male 2,214
Oh, Almost forgot...Hey Republicans, SUCK IT!!!! :-D
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Male 10,855
[quote] just that ALL people should have access to basic health care regardless of income.[/quote]

The problem is more government power is NOT the fix, rather that government is the cause. States have imposed bans on buying health insurance across state lines which is unconstitutional because only the federal government should be able to enact such bans.
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Male 2,214
People.This is simple. Istead of One in every five dollars in tax going to the military,let`s just give the military seventy-five cents. I don`t know about you, but I think we have enough things to kill people with.
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Male 4,014
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Boom. Schooled by your own appointee. "Der der der its unconstitutional! Der der der fox news said so! Der der der.so did this guy dressed up like colonial times with tea bags on his hat!"

Schooled son. You got worked AGAIN! I have to say, it feels as good today as the day we passed it after all you fools thought Scott Brown was the end of healthcare reform.
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Male 5,811
@Cajun: I`m pretty sure MeGrendel meant that to me anyway, to which I say that I never once mentioned fairness, just that ALL people should have access to basic health care regardless of income. If a private company wants to provide MRI services to those who can afford it I am all for it, as it relieves stress on the wait times MeGrendel is droning on about all the time.

@MeGrendel: So your only *argument* against the two-tier system is some spurious appeal to emotion fallacy? lol. Come back when you have a leg to stand on, the grown-ups are talking.
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Male 10,855
[quote]1) Bold claim with no evidence[/quote]

Try MediCare, MedicAid, and OASDI. Oh then there was the Fannie/Freddie debacle.

[quote]2) How so? The only scarcity with things like MRIs is because the gov`t only pays for a certain amount each year.[/quote]


With an individual mandate, the government specifies a MINIMUM level of coverage, pushing low-premium insurers out of the market.

[quote]3) Haven`t seen that here either, but obviously the American example is the pillar of cheap healthcare *rolls eyes*[/quote]

Pointing back to OASDI again. On top of which time can also be considered a cost. RomneyCare just managed to amass a waiting list of 1600 people.
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Male 10,855
[quote]If you don`t realize just how much this is going to motivate conservatives to boot Obama out of office and repeal this monstrosity then you`re either blind or naive.[/quote]

Just repeal the damn law, I don`t want another hawk in the White House. Especially if he`s going to make the last two look like doves.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Cajun247-"I can have an MRI within a day or even that same day if I want to."[/quote]


Grendel I was quoting patchgrabber. The original comment`s on page 2, time stamp: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:19:20 AM.
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Male 17,512
madest: Chief Roberts just called Obamacare a tax. IT will be the biggest tax increase in the history of the world. If you don`t realize just how much this is going to motivate conservatives to boot Obama out of office and repeal this monstrosity then you`re either blind or naive.

Gloat while you can, this fall you`ll be crying in your soup.
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Male 7,378
Republicans already have taxed you enough but you`re too dumb to see it and it`s indeed why you`re republican.
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Male 8,447
patchgrabber-"you imply that we have to wait long for everything."

No, I specifically point out where you have wait times based on facts I can research.

If you`d actually read what was writ, and not argue you ASSUME was writ, this would go much smoother.

Cajun247-"I can have an MRI within a day or even that same day if I want to."

Why should you be able to just jump to the front of the line just because you choose to pay extra? I thought you were all about `fairness`.

auburnjunky-"We are all cars now. Buy your insurance, or get a ticket."

The only problem with that arguement is that you can opt not to own a car, thus are not required to have insurance. I don`t see anyone opting out of a beating heart.
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Male 10,338
He`s a Republican Madest. I thought they were all stupid?

I could have sworn you`d say....

"See! Republicans want to tax us to death!"
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Male 7,378
Wow John Roberts. Is the man. I have new found respect for Chief Justice John Roberts. Excellent.
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Male 523
@patchgrabber Another problem to consider is that this will hurt a lot of people without really benefiting anyone to a noticeable degree. Even if it is a mere step in the right direction, it can still very easily turn more people off to further change.
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Male 10,338
We are all cars now. Buy your insurance, or get a ticket. Don`t forget to buckle your chin strap.
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Male 523
@patchgrabber
Oh, my bad. I forgot about that. Anyways, I still don`t really see how this is a step in the right direction. It`s good that someone is actually trying to improve it I guess, but that`s really all it is.
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Male 523
Well, this is an interesting turn of events, guys. Now, Obama has a shot at losing the next election, which means we will no longer have a lying, greedy piece of poo in power. Instead, we`ll have a lying, greedy piece of poo in power.
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Male 5,811
@eddy: Agreed, Obamacare isn`t what we have, which is why in my first comment on this thread I said that your HMOs and government will likely screw it up. I said Obamacare is a "step in the right direction," I didn`t say it was the best thing since sliced bread.
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Male 523
@patchgrabber
Your argument falls apart in that `Obamacare` isn`t what you guys have.
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Male 5,811
@randomxnp: I never claimed there were no problems with our healthcare, but your whole diatribe is plainly a Nirvana fallacy. Fact is that countries like France, Japan, and Canada have better overall healthcare than the US, so why cling to a model that doesn`t work as well as something like ours.
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Male 1,293
Patchgrabber

So why should one person die to pay for another`s healthcare? That will happen in this case (and already happens in my and your countries; in a much more modest case I had to pay for private healthcare while paying for the healthcare of others when I was on very poor pay, due to unacceptable service in the NHS; I also forewent treatment I could not afford).

There will be no shock, no poster-child because you cannot identify the person who dies, but that does not make it any less reprehensible. The US Democrats still made a decision to kill some people in order to pay for healthcare other people could not afford. Many of those could not afford it because of their own bad choices. Why should the money Peter could have used to save himself be taken from him to help Paul? Why should one woman forego lifesaving cancer treatment so another may have HRT?
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Male 523
@BostonKaiser The difference between this and Romneycare is that this is at a federal level. True conservatives don`t really give a crap when things are decided by state governments.
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Male 1,293
So Obama lied through his teeth.

This is actually the perfect result for the Republicans. They will get extra enthusiasm, and more support from independents and moderate Democrats. They can show that Obama lied about taxes. Then next year they can just repeal the law, and cannot be filibustered because it is a tax measure.
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Male 10,338
drated.

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Male 92

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Male 5,811
MeGrendel: Any time a healthcare debate happens you imply that we have to wait long for everything. You also conveniently ignore two-tier, so who really needs that reading comprehension course, hmm?
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Male 5,811
[quote]1)Drives quality downwards
2)Creates artificial scarcity
3)Eventually drives prices up. [/quote]
1) Bold claim with no evidence
2) How so? The only scarcity with things like MRIs is because the gov`t only pays for a certain amount each year.
3) Haven`t seen that here either, but obviously the American example is the pillar of cheap healthcare *rolls eyes*
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Male 8,447
patchgrabber-"When did the doctor order the MRI? 3 weeks prior."

Last time I required an MRI, I had it less than 3 HOURS after my doctor ordered it.

Cajun247-"That`s debatable."

Of course it`s debatable. That`s what we`re here for. That`s just my opinion, and hope. (If I could state it as a fact, I`d be making craploads of money)

patchgrabber-"MeGrendel`s assertion that all wait times here are long"

I didn`t say `all wait times are long` (invest in a reading comprehension course). But the fact that you HAVE wait times AT ALL is a major difference. About the only thing we have wait lists for is organ transplants, you naturally have to wait until one becomes available from a donor.
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Male 523
Look, guys, I`m all for healthcare reform. We need it badly. This isn`t going to do much good, though. Also, I think this truly demonstrates why we need politics out of the supreme court. Their job isn`t to act on a political agenda.
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Male 39,614
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Male 5,811
@Cajun: Having healthcare better than 154 countries still proves yours isn`t "the best." I`m sick of Americans saying that when it`s blatantly false. Find me any study that says it`s got the best care, come on, I`ll wait. Even JAMA disagrees that yours is the best, so why don`t you guys stop claiming it?
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Male 10,855
[quote]Anything that isn`t "I pay for myself and that`s it" is an affront to you.[/quote]

As MeGrendel points out tacitly, such schemes typically hide the true cost of a product/service. Which:
1)Drives quality downwards
2)Creates artificial scarcity
3)Eventually drives prices up.

[quote]I`ll get the Waaaahmbulance for you, paid by your taxes.[/quote]

Say our public school system IS awesome ain`t it?
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Male 10,855
[quote]Nice "best in the world" healthcare you got there.[/quote]

Well it`s better than other 154 on that list. That`s another thing; rankings can be misleading, if a nation falls within a standard deviation of the mean than it`s not really accurate to say that it`s "better" or "worse".
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Male 5,811
@cajun: So now you try to put down the two-tier system? Hah. So having a system that provides healthcare to everyone with added private care to overcome things like wait times is not good enough for you? Anything that isn`t "I pay for myself and that`s it" is an affront to you. I`ll get the Waaaahmbulance for you, paid by your taxes. :-)
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Male 10,855
On top of this it is right contradiction of a BASIC, TIME-TESTED principal in contract law. That is for a contract to be valid AND enforceable, all parties must enter it by their own free will. Threatening people with taxes IS coercion!
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Male 5,811
@AvatarJohn: Why is it that every American on here is blatantly ignorant of our two-tier system. I can have an MRI within a day or even that same day if I want to. You guys don`t even understand how our system works. Yours is *hardly* the best in the world. The WHO ranks you at 37 of 191 countries in the world. Nice "best in the world" healthcare you got there.
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Male 10,855
[quote]TWO-TIER, a concept which you guys never can seem to grasp.[/quote]

Two-tier: better known as Fannie Med.
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Male 1,059
The problem, patchy, is you don`t know what you`re missing, so it all seems perfectly normal to you. In the U.S., a doctor orders an MRI and you get it in 3 minutes, not 3 weeks. 3 weeks can be an eternity, depending on what`s wrong with you. But again, to you, that`s perfectly normal. To those of us who enjoy the best health care system in the world, a 3 week wait on an MRI is unthinkable, horrendous, unacceptable and downright criminal.

On a related note, if the government can now tax behavior, can the Congress pass a tax on voting for Democrats? I`d like to see that.
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Male 5,811
@Cajun: I never said that all MRIs are quick, just countering MeGrendel`s assertion that all wait times here are long, if I`m making a hasty generalization then so is he. Also, remember TWO-TIER, a concept which you guys never can seem to grasp.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Obama`s going down in November (if he`s not impeached first).[/quote]

That`s debatable.
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Male 5,811
[quote]I knew it was a bad idea to have him in office from the beginning[/quote]
Well your reasoning is sound, because you give no example of why he was a bad choice. No one can even be sure yet if this ruling is actually bad for your country, that`s just speculation at this point.
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Male 10,855
[quote]and I just had an MRI for my back.[/quote]

Fallacy of composition
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Male 5,811
@patchouly: Um...I`m Canadian...I`m not sure why you`re explaining our health care to me. Was my use of the word "mandated" somehow incorrect?

MeGrendel: [quote]And the `high quality` part is debatable, too. At least I didn`t have to wait months to get my knee looked at.[/quote]
Not this again. Remember when I told you to look up our two-tier healthcare option? Oh, and I just had an MRI for my back. When did the doctor order the MRI? 3 weeks prior. Oooooooh that`s a long wait.
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Male 10,855
[quote]although it`s a step in the right direction[/quote]

Really now? Was Gonzales v Raich a step in the right direction?
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Male 598
Crakr, its not going to create any more chaos than you already have, since states already do healthcare differently. Some states may choose not to participate in covering the higher-income people that would become eligible under obamacare, but it wouldnt change what medicare recipiants already received. Do you think states that participate are going to get over-crowded with poor people or something? If anything, that just means poor southerners will move to more progressive states which will help liberalize them, so i guess i can see your concern.
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Male 10,855
Seriously is there NOTHING congress CAN`T regulate now?
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Male 8,447
patchouly-"high quality, free health care thanks."

The minute you use the term `free` with your healthcare you demonstrate your ignorance on the subject.

And the `high quality` part is debatable, too. At least I didn`t have to wait months to get my knee looked at.
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Male 1,059
FoolsPrussia, they don`t cut heads off anymore. Now that Eric Holder has given them thousands of untraceable guns, the Mexican cartels can feel free to shoot you.
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Male 4,745
MeGrendel:
"Yes, because if one country has crappy healthcare, ALL countries should be required to have crappy healthcare."
-----------

No way are we going to downgrade to the crappy health care you guys offer just because you are jealous. I`ll stick with my high quality, free health care thanks.
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Male 17,512
Chief Roberts said the law was partly unconstitutional, because of the commerce clause, but constitutional as a tax???!

That`s like being a little bit pregnant, it`s moronic.

Oh and for all the poor people out there, the one part the court struck down was mandating that every state pay for the uninsured via medicare. That`s right, each state gets to decide if they can afford it or not, which will create chaos as poor people will move from the states that do to the states that don`t.

This decision is screwed up beyond belief.
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Male 4,745
patchgrabber
"...To *avoid* mandated healthcare?"
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Mandated health care? You guys really don`t understand how any of this works, do you?

Here, health care is like park maintenance. Garbage collection. Or any of the number of things that taxes cover. I walk into a doctor`s office, get treatment and walk out. No bills, no insurance to deal with, nothing. You`re paying the taxes anyway, may as well be getting free health care out of it.
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Male 39,614
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Male 5,811
...good news is that in a few months your mandated health insurance will help you treat that depression. ;-) (I know you already have insurance but I couldn`t resist)
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Male 5,811
Wow, this decision has turned MeGrendel all emo.
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Male 8,447

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Male 3,445
`I`m sneaking into Canada.`

Why don`t you sneak into Mexico instead? It`s closer and you won`t need health care anymore once the cartels cut your head off.
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Male 1,215
Wasn`t this just a slightly tweaked version of Romneycare? You know, like he instituted in Mass. when he was governor? And wasn`t that based off a plan promoted by I believe Dole and other Republicans?
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Male 5,811
[quote]I`m sneaking into Canada[/quote]
...To *avoid* mandated healthcare?
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Male 39,614

I`m sneaking into Canada.
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Male 6,737
America takes another step forward where they belong.

Well done!
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Male 1,215
Wasn`t this just a slightly tweaked version of Romneycare? You know, like he instituted in Mass. when he was governor? And wasn`t that based off a plan promoted by I believe Dole and other Republicans?
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Male 186
Dammmmmmit! We`ll never get rid of our poor now. They`ll live forever!
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Male 5,811
[quote]if he`s not impeached first[/quote]
Are you referring to something else? Because if it was upheld as constitutional by your Supreme Court, it`s kinda binding that it`s legal...
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Male 8,447
Adcro-"just trying to bring the US in line with most of the rest of the world`s healthcare!"

Yes, because if one country has crappy healthcare, ALL countries should be required to have crappy healthcare.

So, first the Mandate WAS NOT A TAX (according to Obama), but it`s now upheld because Congress has authority ot INACT A TAX?

Obama`s going down in November (if he`s not impeached first).
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Male 5,811
[quote]Obama voted against Justice John Roberts confirmation and now he saved Obama`s ass.[/quote]
Well at least conservatives can`t b*tch that it`s due to a liberal-dominated Supreme Court. :-)
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Male 598
you are not REQUIRED to buy health insurance, you do however, have to pay a tax for not having insurance.
Sweet victory! Obama voted against Justice John Roberts confirmation and now he saved Obama`s ass.
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Male 14,331
Health Insurance now has an oligarchy I`m sure they`d never abuse that....
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Male 14,331
Hospitals charge way too much this does nothing to solve that problem.
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Male 39,614

Doomed. America is doomed.
Why? Because we`re stupid, that`s why.
We already have a national healthcare system called Medicare. But rather than expand that, we pass stupid laws that require everyone to purchase health insurance.

We`re still argueing about teaching evolution or creationism in schools.

If you defend yourself against an attacker, you will go to jail.

You can drink yourself to death legally, but if you smoke a harmless, non addictive weed you are going to prison.

You cannot get a toy in your Happy Meal because you are not intelligent enough to handle the responsability that goes with a burger & fries.

You want to have sex without the consequences of having sex, so the government is supposed to buy your contraception or pay for your abortion.

99% of terrorists are young middle-eastern males but we cannot "racial profile".

Doomed. Just doomed.
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Male 5,811
@jt: Especially since we voted Tommy Douglas the greatest Canadian ever. XD
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Male 3,369
5cats: "DOOOOOMED
America, you are now truely screwed!"


yeah, cuz soooo many Canadians want to get rid of your healthcare system. LOL!
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Male 3,369
A patriot is someone who not only loves and cares for his/her country, but also the citizens of that country. This is a great day for patriotic Americans.
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Male 361
Let me get this straight, you don`t have a tax paid NHS because it`s against your right to freedom. However, you are now REQUIRED to BUY health insurance?

It does not, make, sense!
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Male 5,811
Well, although it`s a step in the right direction, I have no doubt your HMOs and the government will mess it up.
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Male 369
It`s not "Obamacare" it`s just trying to bring the US in line with most of the rest of the world`s healthcare!
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Male 40,401
DOOOOOMED
America, you are now truely screwed!
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Male 1,399
November.
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Male 20,830
Link: Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare: Landmark Decision [Rate Link] - It went through, America. This is a touchy one. Are you glad? Mad? Raged? Let it all out, I-A-B.
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