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Date: 06/26/12 10:00 AM

125 Responses to Supreme Court strikes most of AZ`s immigration law

  1. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:49 am
    Link: Supreme Court strikes most of AZ`s immigration law - Leaves intact the part about iquiring immigration status, and detaining offenders. Bitching in 3.....2.....1......
  2. Profile photo of eddy666
    eddy666 Male 30-39
    523 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:12 am
    I thought pubs and crats both agreed on the supreme court`s decision. Why would there be bitching?
  3. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:15 am
    this law was pretty much gutted. even if the cop knows a person is illegal they cannot do much about it.

    my real question is this...will a cop ever ask a white person to prove their citizenship? answer = NOPE.

  4. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:20 am
    Yeah, they can still inquire for immigration papers, but only if they`ve stopped the person for some other offence like a traffic stop. At least I think that`s what it says now.
  5. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:23 am
    I found it rather amusing that the US wants drones watching the Canadian US border. Which side are they watching for?
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:27 am

    If a cop has a reasonable suspicion a crime has been committed, how could they argue he should not inquire about it?

    This is racism. Hispanics get a free ride to break the immigration laws while others have to live by them.

    US immigration policy for cubans is if they are caught in the water they go back, but if they get a single toe on land they get a green card. In other words, if you successfully crash the boarder you get to stay. How stupid is that?
  7. Profile photo of imnakdjumpme
    imnakdjumpme Male 18-29
    598 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:37 am
    The one part they didnt strike down, (requiring an officer to inquire about documentation of the person`s legal status if they suspect they are here illegally), is still open to be revisited by the supreme court down the line. They said it may be unconstitutional depending on how it is used and enforced, so they seemed to do the right thing with this judgement, IMO, even if i think it is a dumb law for the state of AZ.
  8. Profile photo of imnakdjumpme
    imnakdjumpme Male 18-29
    598 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:47 am
    Gerry, there are reasons why we dont have local cops inforcing the federal law.
    It breeds mistrust with the local police and keeps people from reporting crimes or working with the cops to solve them, which creates more work for the police and has them working on problems that they arent suppose to get involved in.
    You tell me what is reasonable suspicion of someone being undocumented? Now cops are practically required to racially profile.
    Right now, the police instructions are if they look nervous.
  9. Profile photo of ChelmaCavo
    ChelmaCavo Female 18-29
    25 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:54 am
    ".. will a cop ever ask a white person to prove their citizenship?"

    Maybe because white people are not currently immigrating from almost anywhere. Being anti-racist does not mean ignoring skin color. It does exist. How can you tell if someone is Spanish? The color of their skin and the possibility that they might be speaking Spanish are the two most obvious tell-tale signs.

    I completely agree with the Supreme Court ruling. Immigration is an American ideal.
  10. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    740 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:58 am
    Reasonable suspicion would easily come from a lack of proper ID. ASsuming that racial profiling is required to determine immigration status is ignorant and RACIST. Yes it is racist to assume that one race will be singled out.

    Some people on this site seem to believe that hispanics are the only illegal immigrants but forget that europeans, asians and africans all come here illegally as well.

    Next up: The citizens of Arizona sue the federal government for failing to enforce immigration law. Equal potection under the law goes both ways.
  11. Profile photo of eddy666
    eddy666 Male 30-39
    523 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:59 am
    @jamie76 That`s because there aren`t a lot of illegal white or black immigrants. Is it racially profiling? Sure it is, but it`s also a little justified. I`m not saying it is something that should be endorsed by the government, but you can usually tell with a reasonable amount of confidence if someone is an illegal immigrant. It`s not something that individual police officers should be blamed for.
  12. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:00 am
    @jamie76

    It`s all part of the white devils conspiricaaazz!!

  13. Profile photo of eddy666
    eddy666 Male 30-39
    523 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:04 am
    I honestly don`t know where I stand on immigration these days. I can`t stand that illegal immigrants are able to use our government-funded resources with ease, without contributing to these resources in the form of taxes, but I also don`t like that these poor blokes can`t even get the legal status to pay taxes in the first place. On top of all that, I think that immigrants from Mexico contribute a good bit to our society, but when too many hit one area at a time, I think it creates problems.
  14. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:30 am
    My stand is this.

    Seal the border, and find a way for the ones that made it to become citizens, thus ensuring they will do their part as American citizens by paying taxes.

    At the same time, make it harder for non-citizens to take advantage of public programs. They should not be able to take advantage of any health or welfare programs, until granted at least a work visa.
  15. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:35 am
    `I found it rather amusing that the US wants drones watching the Canadian US border. Which side are they watching for?`

    Your side is doing some Orwellian stuff at the border too...

    Canada
  16. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:36 am

    "Now cops are practically required to racially profile."
    You say that like it`s a bad thing.
    Yes, a few cops misused racial profiling, but that does not make the tool bad. It`s usefull in fighting terrorism and illegal immegration. When 90% of the illegal aliens are hispanic, then how is it not reasonable to profile the perpetrator 90% by race?

    And it`s not that hard to find them. They hang out in the Home Depot parking lot. Just pull up with a U-Haul van and they`ll come running to you. Check paper, then u-haul them back to the boarder.
  17. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:37 am
    Maybe because white people are not currently immigrating from almost anywhere.

    yyyeahh-no. Sorry still got immigrants from Europe these days.
  18. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:42 am
    for those saying there are no illegal white immigrants in the US, well you might want to rethink that. Every year there are plenty of Eastern Europeans who come here and over stay their visas...more importantly to me, as I am American Indian (mom is 100% and dad is 50%, I am a 1/4 other brown skin) I see anyone that was not here when my people arrived 30,000 years ago as ILLEGAL.

    here is a quick video that will explain those feelings...and if you think for a second that because time has gone by it shouldn`t matter anymore, well sorry it doesn`t work that way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncAKka6F0Es
  19. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:43 am
    usefull in fighting terrorism

    If there was much to fight these days.

    then how is it not reasonable to profile the perpetrator 90% by race?

    There are other tell-tale signs, white guy with funny accent for instance?
  20. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:45 am
    McGovern1981

    you sir are correct, even though you were just trying to be an ass. except the part about killing is something that most other racist aren`t anywhere near as good at as whites, so I think we will avoid getting into a war with the single most war like race on the planet...yours.
  21. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:50 am
    here is a quick video that will explain those feelings

    I`m sorry that is EXACTLY the WRONG sentiment. You`re asking MILLIONS to displace themselves because of something that happened CENTURIES ago? That`s not reconciliation that`s petty bickering. Seriously how about everyone just stop asking everyone else to go back to their homeland, we`re here now and we`re not responsible for the crimes our ancestors commited.
  22. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:56 am
    "I see anyone that was not here when my people arrived 30,000 years ago as ILLEGAL."

    You sir, are a douche.
  23. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:58 am
    We did not wrong the freaking Native Americans! FFS stop this fool argument.

    European: We want this land.
    Native American: We already live here.
    EU: Fight for it?
    NA: Sure.

    That`s about it. Live.
  24. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 11:59 am
    @jamie76
    you`re right I once date an white illegal she was never asked.

    @eddy666
    30% of illegals are non Hispanic
    racially profiling is never justified
    most terrorist in the USA are white. but is there white there not called terrorist.
    whites are the largest prison population.
    almost all serial killers are white.
    so every white man should be profiled becues their are KILLERS
  25. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    auburnjunky

    really? I am a douche because your people came here, wiped out millions of my people, pushed onto useless land, where we still are today, and have treated what is left of us with disdain? that makes me a douche?

    well if it does, so be it. this land was stolen from my people and treated like `savages" even though it was the white man that was acting like one. you could have shared the land, but no, it had to be yours.

    just like Arizona, Texas and Cali, which were all part of Mexico. Those lands HAD to be yours, so you stole them from Mexico as well.

    I am pretty sure someone around here is a douche, but I think you are pointing the finger at the wrong person Summer`s Eve.
  26. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    509 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    @auburnjunky You seem a bit chilly, how bout a nice toasty smallpox blankie for ya.
  27. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    @auburnjunky You sir, are a douche.

    its more like this
    European and later Americans: We want this land.
    Native American: We don`t what you here.
    Americans: to bad
    70,000,000 NDNs dead over the next 400yaers
    Americans: we still want what little you and want you gone.
  28. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    Southern US
    6933 Posts Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:58:18 AM
    We did not wrong the freaking Native Americans! FFS stop this fool argument.

    European: We want this land.
    Native American: We already live here.
    EU: Fight for it?
    NA: Sure.

    That`s about it. Live.


    wow, what an amazing way to see history, in a completely stupid and incorrect way.

    it did not go anything like that you racist simpleton.

    it went like this.

    Whitey: hey new land, it`s ours, you know why? I planted a flag in the name of some monarchy! that`s why!

    NA: umm wait we were here first, but hey since you idiots ae dying cus you cannot fend for yourself, let us help you (thus thanksgiving came about".

    Whitey: hey thanks for saving our asses! NOW DIE!

    pretty much sums it up.
  29. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    time to stop feeding the troll
  30. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm
    Wow that was fun!

    Thanks guys!

    DM broke the code.
  31. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    I`m sorry that is EXACTLY the WRONG sentiment. You`re asking MILLIONS to displace themselves because of something that happened CENTURIES ago? "That`s not reconciliation that`s petty bickering. Seriously how about everyone just stop asking everyone else to go back to their homeland, we`re here now and we`re not responsible for the crimes our ancestors commited."

    the video was posted to make a point that whites ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TOO. I know your lot is going anywhere, you have made that clear as day.

    and it isn`t about you leaving, it is about you realizing that

    A. you did not make this country, immigrants did.
    B. your ancestors exploited every other race here to their advantage.
    C. YOU ARE PRIVILEGED BECAUSE OF YOUR ANCESTORS AND THE ADVANTAGES THEY CREATED FOR YOU. This is commonly referred to as WHITE PRIVILEGE.

    Google that last term, keep mind open, learn.
  32. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:11 pm
    trolling is fun did it a few times myself lol
  33. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    auburnjunky


    there is nothing sadder than a man above the age of 30 that still trolls the net...what a sad miserable life it must be for you indeed. sorry bro, if I knew you were socially inept I would not ave fed into your handicap.
  34. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    Jesus Jamie. Who pissed in your cornflakes?

    What`s wrong with a guy having a little fun?

    DM agrees with me.
  35. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    @jamie76 we`re not responsible for the crimes our ancestors commited."

    dude open you eyes and see that crimes that are happing now! are you responsible? yes, you are if you help keep them in office if you dont see whats going on.

    try Googling when the Utes became "Native American" aka American citizens
  36. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:49 pm
    OMGZ!! My ancestors had it really hard like everyone else not that I experienced any of it lets incessantly whine about it now that should make everyone love us!!

    I shall cry you a trail of tears tonight Tonto!
  37. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    "We did not wrong the freaking Native Americans"
    Oh, conbtaire. If you go with the "we fought for it and won" arguement fine. But we have never upheld a single treaty we made with them after winning the Indian Wars. Every one of them we reneged on. In that respect, we very much wronged them.

    Well...YOU did. My people weren`t even here yet. They immegrated LEGALLY to this country after.
  38. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    Why do people think all Native American tribes were peace loving and friendly it`s not that cut and dry.
  39. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    "Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:13:33 PM
    Jesus Jamie. Who pissed in your cornflakes?

    What`s wrong with a guy having a little fun?

    DM agrees with me."


    TROLLED! sorry couldn`t resist setting you up for that one!
  40. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    AJ, You can send me that $50 when you`re ready.
  41. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5879 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:06 pm
    jamie76-"I see anyone that was not here when my people arrived 30,000 years ago as ILLEGAL. "

    Why the arbitrary time of 30,000. You admit your ancestors didn`t show up until 30,000 years ago. Makes you illegal, too.\

    Wasn`t `your land` originally, so quityerbitchen. It belonged to `those that came before`, and even they were not the original.

    jamie76-"referred to as WHITE PRIVILEGE"

    Yea, cuz I get a check every month just because I white!

    The second you posted that term, you lost any credibility. (not that you had much prior to posting such ignorance)
  42. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:09 pm
    McGovern1981

    you ever live on a reservation? I did and while it was only for a few short years it was more than enough. You have not seen poverty in the US until you have really seen what it is like there. Most tribes DO NOT have casino`s and even ones that do are not always successful because they are too remote. I saw drugs abuse and alcoholism caused by strife and a lack of jobs like you could not imagine. I still visit my family there yearly and it has not changed SO DO NOT FOR A FING SECOND TELL ME WHAT I HAVE OR HAVE NO EXPERIENCED YOU SMALL MINDED TROLL. What I experienced there was NOT how my people lived before YOUR people arrived . you got anything else you want to add?

    your ancestors never had poo hard in their lives because they were too busy making everyone else`s live impossible.
  43. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    "Why the arbitrary time of 30,000. You admit your ancestors didn`t show up until 30,000 years ago. Makes you illegal, too."

    1. anthropolgist believe the FIRST migration of people to this land now the US, was about 30,000 years ago when there was a land bridge between russia and the US...not arbitrary at all small minded wonder.

    2. NOP ONE ELSE WAS HERE. how can the FIRST people to arrive in a land be illegal if they took the land from no one????

    mw gawd, do you even think before your little fingers start typing away? I think we know the answer to that one...LOL

    and yes white privilege is a valid and accepted term among sociologist and you should google it for yourself.

    there are mountains of evidence to support that term, educate yourself, learn a little.
  44. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm
    Madest: ????
  45. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm
    Jamie: Bait and switch. Well played!
  46. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:19 pm
    You don`t recall our bet about the show me your papers law being rejected by the supreme court? We had a $50 on it. I was right (as usual) and you were wrong. In fact you were so sure of yourself that you initiated the bet. I`m ready to collect.
  47. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    @jamie76

    My ancestors well half of them were starved from their homeland so came here only to have most jobs refused to them look up "Irish need not apply" but they managed to work hard and not whine constantly therby getting respect you should try it sometime. Alcoholism has long been a problem with Native Americans before reservations so that no one else fault but your own but I`m sure somehow in your mind that whiteys fault too.
  48. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5879 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    jamie76-"anthropolgist believe the FIRST migration of people to this land now the US, was about 30,000 years ago"

    So you admit your ancestors were IMMIGRANTS! (`immigrant` derived from Latin "migratio")

    jamie76-"NOP ONE ELSE WAS HERE."

    So? Your Point? Ya found it so you get to keep it? Sorry, your ancestors were immigrants, shoulda done a better job of keeping out the other immigrants.

    jamie76-"white privilege is a valid and accepted term among...

    losers and race baiting idiots.
  49. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    If you want to complain about living on a reservation perhaps you should stop taking the federal money you`re paid to live there.
  50. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    No no no Madest. The whole law wasn`t stricken. The "Show me your papers" part remains.

    I`ll call it a push, just because I like you.
  51. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    McGovern1981

    we didn`t have alcohol before you guys showed up.

    and when was the last time an invading force wiped out 120 million of your people? when was the last time that invading force was still hanging around after doing the deed?

    did you ever starve or live on a reservation? no, you didn`t.

    I did live on one and food wasn`t too abundent because money wasn`t.

    you have Zero clue what it means to go without or be oppressed so dont try to relate to what indians went through. Irish might have had it harder than other whites, other than those from italy but it was VERY short lived and you were still accepted and given jobs.

    rail roads come to mind...

  52. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:03 pm
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:14:48 PM
    Jamie: Bait and switch. Well played!

    I thought you would appreciate that!
  53. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:12 pm
    No no no Madest. The whole law wasn`t stricken. The "Show me your papers" part remains.
    I`ll call it a push, just because I like you. --------
    It`s not a "push" as you say. The heart of Arizona`s law which was stricken was their desire to walk up to anyone they "suspected" of being illegal and demand proof of citizenry. The "show me your papers" part that was upheld was for people already in custody for any other offense which indeed they had anyway. The way I see it is you owe me $50.00 pay up.
  54. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    Noooooo. The show me your papers part was upheld is for anyone already detained for another offense, which was the whole basis to begin with.

    What`s your address?
  55. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    madest: Nope you`re wrong there. Cops in AZ can still "check a person`s immigration status while enforcing other laws if "reasonable suspicion" exists that the person is in the United States illegally." - CNN

    That`s checking papers, sorry but you loose, Send AJ his $50.
  56. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    But don`t believe me, read it here - CNN
  57. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:34 pm
    Instead of ca$h, I`ll accept a public apology and an admission from you that anything involving the constitution and justice is outside your realm of basic understanding.
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    madest: Anything involving honesty and common sense is outside your realm of basic understanding.
  59. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:40 pm
    Hey AJ, I think CJ wants to marry you. He`s coming to your defense like a bitch would...
  60. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    madest: What`s right is right, AJ won the bet. But nooooo you can`t possibly loose, so you tell him he`s the loser?

    Bud, you need some serious help for that narcissism or otherwise the pride fall you have coming will be epic.
  61. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:48 pm
    CJ, You have no idea what you`re blabbering about. I pointed out they can ask for papers from someone in custody. Every state in the union has that ability. Our bet was centered around the AZ police walking up to brown people and asking them for proof of citizenship. I said it would be struck and was right. Did I write that in plain enough English that republicans can understand?
  62. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 2:57 pm
    madest: It clearly says that the people being investigated DO NOT have to be in custody at the time.

    What part of, "check a person`s immigration status while enforcing other laws if "reasonable suspicion" exists that the person is in the United States illegally.", do you not understand?

    Nothing there says they have to be "in custody" or arrested before they can check. If the driver of a car is speeding and they pull him over they can check his papers, period.

    That part WAS NOT STRUCK DOWN. Now pay AJ!
  63. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:06 pm
    Can`t you guys look up the old post where the bet was made? And maybe shut up?
  64. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    Here it is:

    D Section 2(B) Section 2(B) of S. B. 1070 requires state officers to make a "reasonable attempt . . . to determine the immigration status" of any person they stop, detain, or arrest on some other legitimate basis if "reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien and is unlawfully present in the United States." Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. ?11-1051(B) (West 2012). The law also provides that "ny person who is arrested shall have the person`s immigration status de- termined before the person is released." Ibid. The accepted way to perform these status checks is to contact ICE, which maintains a database of immigration records.

    This was UPHELD by the SCOTUS.
  65. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    Bets on this page.
  66. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    @jamie

    So... why continue living on reservations then?
  67. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:55 pm
    madest
    Male, 40-49, Eastern US
    5735 Posts Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:23:57 PM
    I accept. Consider this our hand-shake.
    auburnjunky
    Male, 30-39, Southern US
    6939 Posts

    Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:21:58 PM
    Seeing as how it`s already a federal law (that they are afraid to enforce), I will see your $50 and raise you 100. I`m not kidding. Step up.
    madest
    Male, 40-49, Eastern US
    5735 Posts Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:08:58 PM
    It`s unconstitutional. I don`t care that you went over it. The Supreme Court will be the final arbiter on it`s legality. I got $50 that says the Arizona law will be deemed unconstitutional.
  68. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 3:56 pm
    Seems you initiated the bet.

    Also seems I raised you to $150.

    Also seems the terms were CALL THE LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They did not do that. They struck down parts, not THE WHOLE LAW.

    I will give you an opportunity for a push. Take it, or pay me.
  69. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 4:20 pm
    The feds sued AZ because of the provision demanding papers from anybody at any time regardless of the circumstances. That portion of the law was rejected. This justification that you`re now using to twist the truth was never in question. The police have always had the ability to ask for identification from people they suspect of criminal activity. Being brown is not enough of an excuse to demand papers and then detain people if the papers are not provided. Never was, never will be. But on April 26th of 2010 there are 15 pages of AJ, CJ and yea you too Baelzar standing your ground about how Arizona has the right to protect their borders and make what amounts to unconstitutional laws to achieve those goals. My bet was that they did not. Again. AJ, owes me $50 or public admission that I was right and he was wrong...
    again.
  70. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:06 pm
    "The feds sued AZ because of the provision demanding papers from anybody at any time regardless of the circumstances."

    Problem is, AZ law never said cops had the right to do that.

    The law has always stated that they cannot randomly ask for papers. They have to be detained for something other than an immigration check.

    The law was not deemed unconstitutional. I win. Pay up.
  71. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:21 pm
    madest: You didn`t specify what part(s) of the law would or would not be struck down. You declared the whole law unconstitutional and made your bet on that.

    Since the whole law was NOT struck down, and the key provision of Section 2(B), checking papers, is still in force then you loose. Pay AJ.
  72. Profile photo of birdawg68
    birdawg68 Male 40-49
    132 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:30 pm
    We won`t enforce immigration laws and you can`t either!
  73. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:40 pm
    Oh, and those of you pissed off at Obama`s decicion: you`re socialists and the official stance here.

    Dumb Republicans.
  74. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:44 pm
    First of all CJ, Neither did you. The debate was on the show your papers part of the law being unconstitutional and you`d know that from visiting that thread. You were also adamant that AZ has every right to become Nazi`s because hey there`s too many damn Mexicans down there for rednecks like you. You`re ashamed to admit you were wrong. You`re one of those loud, mouth-breathers who really thinks he knows the constitution. You got the smack down from your justices and you can`t even accept it. I`m sad for you CJ. You`re a man who can`t admit when he`s wrong.
  75. Profile photo of Nageki
    Nageki Male 30-39
    110 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    The last provision in this law was not even ruled on. The court said they couldn`t rule on it until it was implemented. Once implemented it could be challenged. Hence, all the arguments before this are invalid. Get the facts people.
  76. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 6:47 pm
    madest: You should be telling yourself that last sentence you wrote.

    As I recall, I debated you on the fact that Mexico has stiffer anti-immigration laws than we do and they can check anyone`s papers on demand, whether or not they`re being investigated.

    AZ`s law is much tamer and requires "Reasonable Suspicion" and is far from the "Nazi" rhetoric you spouted.

    What`s sad is you NEVER admit your wrong EVER and as predicted you won`t pay up on your lost bets.

    You have no honor or honesty, not that that is a surprise, most of us already knew that fact.
  77. Profile photo of FeelTheRide
    FeelTheRide Female 18-29
    515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 7:31 pm
    Whatever...I`m out this bitch in a week and 1/2. Moving on to a more tolerant state. Woot
  78. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 7:41 pm
    @feeltheride: Would you trade your own safety for a little more tolerance?

    Sounds to me like you are just running from the Mexicans. Bigot.
  79. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:11 pm
    CJ, Your statements then: Show me in the LAW, What `civil rights` a non-citizen Illegal alien has in the USA? That`s right, you can`t, Because they have NONE!. --------

    CJ, Your argument then, much like now, is nonsense. The only honorable move is to succumb to your crushing defeat at both of my liberally left feet because you sir were slayed by a democrat, atheist who thinks Jimmy Carter was better than Reagan. BOOOYA! That has to be a devastating blow to a proud Christian, conservative, teabagger on assistance like you doesn`t it? Listen, I`ll return your balls whence I receive a heartfelt acceptance of my superior intellect. Until then, I`ll stand proudly over your defeated corpse holding your balls aloft and teasing you by keeping them just out of reach. Vogue.
  80. Profile photo of kelfred
    kelfred Male 40-49
    128 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:34 pm
    You want to hold a dead guy`s balls and you claim to have a superior intellect? This is a sad day indeed.
  81. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 26, 2012 at 10:57 pm
    madest: Bud, I feel you`ve either fallen into delusions of grandeur or smoked way too much weed today. Your narcissism has hit new unseen heights, rivaling those of Obama himself.

    Seek help man, you`ve ran off the rails like Charlie Sheen. listening to your repeated denials is like watching a train wreck.

    Madest`s next statement:
  82. Profile photo of chance13
    chance13 Male 40-49
    219 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 4:50 am
    Wow Madest, must be nice to live in a world where you can just spout whatever crap you want, call everyone out on it, and declare yourself winner with no facts on your side...yes...nice indeed...


    Wow
  83. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 5:24 am
    Well it`s true. I mean I`m not supposed to gloat? When did those rules apply? Both those right wing douches who proclaim superior knowledge in the constitution said the supreme court would uphold Arizona`s immigration policy. The absurdity of living in a police state where your papers can be demanded did not register to the right wing cabal that is CJ, AJ and handful of others. Now those same "experts" twist the facts to make them sound as though they won... Part of our problem in this country is we allow nonsense from the right to linger in the ether until their nonsense becomes fact. Examples include "Corporations are people". Remember WMD`s? Where`s the apology from the right for that? 4,500 Americans died over that lie and trillions of dollars wasted. Anti-war liberals who knew they were hearing nonsense never got any satisfaction. I say enough of letting them live in a fantasy world. Let them know how wrong they are when they are indeed wrong.
  84. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 5:45 am
    madest: I`m going to guess that you will be just about this same level of delusional when Obama looses the election in the fall, probably worse.

    I`ve quoted both the New York times and CNN that the key provision of checking suspected illegals papers, with reasonable suspicion, to have been upheld. That was the very part, Section 2(b), that you blathered on about, said was unconstitutional. You bet on, unwisely, the whole law being overturned and it wasn`t.

    Now your gloating as if you won, when it`s clear to everyone except yourself, that you`ve lost.

    IF you were honorable, IF you were honest you`d make good on your lost wager. Then you`d have the slightest chance to save what little reputation you have left here.
  85. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:07 am
    @Cajun247

    Money and an excuse to whine. Do you think if Native American were starving to death currently you wouldn`t here about it.
  86. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:16 am
    You can quote the Grand Poobah CJ. You`re only conning yourself. Perhaps if you tell yourself a lie enough times it`ll become reality. Police have always had the ability to the check immigration status of people in their custody. Nothing has changed there. What has changed is Arizona police are forbidden to walk up to people of Hispanic heritage and demand papers. Go ahead and watch Fox where you can feel comfortable in your loss with all your fellow know nothing losers.
  87. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:33 am
    Would you trade your own safety for a little more tolerance?

    False dichotomy. Violent illegals are rare.

    Oh and Crakr`s Charlie Sheen pic was a total win.
  88. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:37 am
    @jamie76

    Fist you said 70 million now 120 million what is it? Why don`t you blame the Spanish and demand a handout there too? They killed plenty! Oh ya can`t blame whitey! As for blaming someone else for alcoholism that`s pathetic no one dumped it down your throats.
  89. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:41 am
  90. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 7:03 am

    Cajun247 [quote">"Violent illegals are rare." [/quote">
    "rare" ? Are you kidding me? Every day 12 citizens are killed by illegal aliens.
    That`s more than soldiers who die in Afghanastan every day.
    Many violent crimes among illegals go unreported by victims who are illegal. Also cities like Los Angeles is a Safe Zones for them. Their police are forbidden to ask immegration status for any reason.

    It`s common, not "rare".
  91. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 7:19 am
    @Gerry: That must explain why some friends from L.A. came up here and were shocked when they saw white people working at McDonalds and Home Depot.
  92. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 8:04 am

    In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
    source
  93. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 8:13 am
    What are you trying to say Gerry? That police should be allowed to demand papers from anyone? Jews and Japanese experienced that and their plight should remind you it`s not a good idea. Police have the tools to investigate crimes and round up suspects without denying their citizenry constitutional rights.
  94. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 8:32 am
    Jews and Japanese in WWII forced to show papers to take a piss.

    OR

    Illegals ASKED to show papers, only if they have committed some other crime, and it is apparent they might be illegal.

    One of these things is not like the other thing......

    One of these things is, not the same.

    Stop bring up the Nazis to describe something that is markedly not Nazi-ish. You sound like a fearmonger.
  95. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 8:45 am

    madest, illegals are required to carry their green card. Police often ask anyone who is involved in an investigation for identification. If I don`t have any, they will hold me for up to 72 hours until my identification is determined. But hispanics get a pass on that...it`s "racial profiling" if you do it to them. So the most violent leave town before the cops get all the evidence together. They head up to San Francisco, another Safe Zone.

    This myth that all illegals are the noble-poor building a better future is a myth. Many {not all but many} are the dregs of mexican society, and Mexico is happy to dump their human garbage on us. We are the only country stupid enough to take them.
  96. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:12 am
    @Gerry: How do you do that thing where you open your mouth and Lou Dobbs` voice comes out?
  97. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:24 am
    Stop bring up the Nazis to describe something that is markedly not Nazi-ish. You sound like a fearmonger. -------
    Funny that`s what the Germans said to the Jews circa 1933.
  98. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:27 am

    patchgrabber - I don`t listen to Lou Dobbs, but if I sound like him, so what. Maybe on this topic he is corrrect. I`ll take truth wherever I find it. Not the watered down, politically correct, ubber-sensitive Spin Version. Don`t be extremist. "If it sound like him it must be wrong". That`s the Dem/Rep stalemate we have in the government and it`s not working.
  99. Profile photo of imnakdjumpme
    imnakdjumpme Male 18-29
    598 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:29 am
    I think Madest did win or it still hasnt been determined because they did say that the part of the law that wasnt struck down was open to being revisited because it would depend on how it was enforced as to whether it was a tool that violated the constitution. It will probably be revisited because of the pending lawsuits against it in several states, from what i understand.

    I dont have to carry a drivers license or birth cert. to walk around town and i would be offended if a cop asked me to prove i am here legally, even if i did something wrong, but maybe being offended by cops should be acceptable? I truly dont know that my offense to this idea means its unconstitutional or inherently wrong.
  100. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:34 am
    The problem with your statement about green cards Gerry is you can`t look at someone and tell if they`re in the country illegally. It requires police to profile which as a method of policing we reject as a society. Sorry you hate your neighbors so much but I doubt they are the cause of any of your problems.
  101. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:46 am

    madest - I do not reject profiling. It is a valid tool. Yes, it was misused by some, and that should be stopped. But it does not make the tool a bad thing. That`s part of America`s problem, this extremist mentality. Terrorists DO fit a racial profile 90% of the time. Illegal aliens DO fit a racial profile.

    No, I don`t "hate my neighbors". I`m the building manager and only rent to legals. And since you`ll assume it`s all white, we have black, white, hispanic, asian, atheists, christians, sluts and nice girls, douche bags and decent guys. It`s a diverse building.
  102. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:53 am
    You`re a private citizen Gerry. You have every right to ask for proof of citizenship. This whole thing about profiling is nonsense. How many people can look at you and know you`re a homosexual? Wasn`t too long ago that being you was illegal. Imagine the tests Arizona would come up with. Oh wait don`t, you`d probably move there...
  103. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5879 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 9:57 am
    madest-"That police should be allowed to demand papers from anyone?"

    The one thing you refuse to comprehend (or you do comprehend, but refuse to admit as it destroys your arguement) is that the law, AT NO TIME, allowed the police to ask for papers AT RANDOM or for just walking down the street.

    When a police officer stops you for speeding, what`s the first thing he does? Ask for your ID. Why is this not acceptable to ask for an ID if a brown person is stopped for speeding?

    madest-"It requires police to profile which as a method of policing we reject as a society."

    No, it`s something Politically Correct idiots & ACLU (but then, I repeat myself) reject. Sane people see it as a valid tool.

    Not to mention, the democrats LOVE profiling....

  104. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:01 am
    @Gerry: I was just amused because Lou Dobbs used to have a show on CNN and the thing that he hated above all was illegal aliens. Not criticizing you, just a moment of amusement for myself that I`d deign to share.

    Now I will leave this thread since it`s getting a little heated...

  105. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:02 am
    Indeed. I`m guilty of profiling all republicans as retarded. I`ve yet to be proven wrong.
  106. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Maddest - what is the point of having immigration law if we just ignore it and allow any number of unknown people to swarm acrossed the border?

    Or is it racist? Having immigratin law that applies to white europeans, asians, or muslims is enforced but if they`re hispanic we give them a free pass, as many as can come over. Good hispanic people and bad ones, that one group gets to do anything they want.

    That`s what we have now. Isn`t that kind of racist?
  107. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5879 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:24 am
    madest-"I`ve yet to be proven wrong."

    Correction: You`ve yet to ACCEPT that you were proven wrong, repeatedly.
  108. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:27 am
  109. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 10:31 am
  110. Profile photo of eddy666
    eddy666 Male 30-39
    523 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:25 pm
    @McGovern1981
    Do people really not understand this? Democrats and Republicans are after the same thing: money, popularity, and power. They have the same agenda, and, thus, should be considered the same party.
  111. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 6:57 pm
    [quote">Are you kidding me? Every day 12 citizens are [/quote">

    That says NOTHING about the fraction of illegals considered violent.

    [quote">In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.[/quote">

    Again says, NOTHING about the nation only Los Angoles. Also says nothing about how old those warrants are.

    US Citizens are 2.5x more likely to be incarcerated than illegals.

    So like I said rare.
  112. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 7:13 pm
    So you may say that illegals more likely get deported then imprisoned, then let`s compare percentages of these demographics. % of illegal aliens vs % of American citizens. I want to see those numbers.
  113. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    ME: Are you kidding me? Every day 12 citizens are killed by illegal aliens.
    Cajun: "That says NOTHING about the fraction of illegals considered violent"
    So you consider 12 people a day DEAD an acceptable price to pay for people of other nations to ignore laws and crash the border?

    Obviously, we have very differant priorities.
  114. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 27, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Special Privilege to one race over another is racist.
    Hispanics are allowed to ignore immigration law while all other races are expected to obey it.
    Please, defend this racist policy, I`d like to hear it.
  115. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 28, 2012 at 8:48 am
    So you consider 12 people a day DEAD an acceptable price to pay for people of other nations to ignore laws and crash the border?

    In 1995 that would amount to slightly over a quarter of homicides that year. Nonetheless I consider it an acceptable price for the many good things immigration has brought us.

    Hispanics are allowed to ignore immigration law while all other races are expected to obey it.

    Please show me evidence.

    Obviously, we have very differant priorities.



    Considering the many good things that immigration has brought to our country ("The United States" for starters) it is within the best interests of the nation to have an open immigration policy.
  116. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 28, 2012 at 8:55 am
    In fact it is within mankind`s best interest for every (at least "developed") nation on the planet to have open immigration policies. Not ones that wreak of bureaucracies and months long waiting. This way those residing in authoritarian regimes or nations with corrupt governments can have easy avenue to escape.

    The other thorny issue related to this is the War on Drugs which has reduced Northern Mexico to a mospit of violence, poverty, and organized crime. You honestly think people are going to care about the laws of another state?
  117. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 28, 2012 at 9:00 am
    In short Arizona`s law was yet another foolish attempt to correct human nature which has driven revenue away to other states (like mine).
  118. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    June 28, 2012 at 12:47 pm
    Look what immigration did for the Native Americans
  119. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Cajun, you compare the creation of the United States with the influx of illegal aliens who bring poverty and violence wherever they go while draining an already strained infrastructure.

    How did you reach this utopian place you live? I`d like to go there `cause it sucks here in America.
  120. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 29, 2012 at 6:12 pm
    Look what immigration did for the Native Americans

    The destruction of the Native Americans was the result of America constantly breaking treaties with them. Had we respected them the US would not have expanded far beyond the East Coast.

    @Gerry

    Gerry: No, you insist on using collectivist rhetoric to condemn a lot of people trying make a better life for themselves just because some bad people happen come along with them. I find it very nauseating.

    You also have no proof that says hispanics are allowed to ignore our laws while everyone else is expected to follow it.
  121. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 29, 2012 at 6:17 pm
    while draining an already strained infrastructure

    Oh right as if they aren`t farmers, nannies, construction workers, house maids, janitors, plumbers, cab drivers, etcetera. Inventors like the creators of Silicon Valley, Yahoo, Java. Yeah some drain on our infrastructure.
  122. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 6:43 am
    "Oh right as if they aren`t farmers, nannies, construction workers, house maids, janitors, plumbers, cab drivers, etcetera. Inventors like the creators of Silicon Valley, Yahoo, Java. Yeah some drain on our infrastructure"
    Well, at least you admit they are taking jobs from Americans.
  123. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    June 30, 2012 at 9:09 am
    @Cajun
    No, you insist on using collectivist rhetoric to condemn a lot of people trying make a better life for themselves just because some bad people happen come along with them. I find it very nauseating.
  124. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    July 1, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    Well, at least you admit they are taking jobs from Americans.

    Well jobs Americans don`t want anyways.

    @An-egg

    I assume by troll-copying you have no point to prove. Thus you concede the argument.
  125. Profile photo of An-egg
    An-egg Male 30-39
    885 posts
    July 3, 2012 at 9:50 am
    No. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement which applies equally to the immigration situation now and then.

    There are treaties currently in place that are being broken by illegal immigrants.

    There were some good people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families whose actions led to the destruction (sic) of the Native Americans.

    It was such a good statement that I didn`t feel I could improve upon it. A pity you now resort to implicit name calling and illogical assumptions.

    Can`t you understand that in that one post you completely contradicted yourself?

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