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Date: 06/12/12 07:25 AM

57 Responses to Indiana: 1st State To Allow Citizens To Shoot Cops

  1. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:23 am
    Link: Indiana: 1st State To Allow Citizens To Shoot Cops - Handing a bit of self preservation rights back to the citizen by giving them the right to shoot at Indiana`s finest.
  2. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:36 am
    Not my caption but at least its posted.
  3. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:38 am
    How does a court find that there is "no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers"? I am dumbfounded how a court can say that something illegal is ok.
  4. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:39 am

    That`s a great link photo for the article!
    You get a good score just on that!
  5. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3150 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:40 am
    Talk about a misleading title...

    ... shoot cops WHO UNLAWFULLY ENTER THEIR (the citizen) HOME.

    IAB, I understand you need the clicks to produce revenue, but why make such misleading titles?
  6. Profile photo of Brometheus
    Brometheus Male 30-39
    376 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:52 am
    "IAB, I understand you need the clicks to produce revenue, but why make such misleading titles?"

  7. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:53 am
    I love the "opponents see potential for mistakes and abuse", and no mention of all the mistakes and abuse that as ALREADY HAPPENED by police and other civil servants. This law really will be hard to apply, but maybe it will make police think a bit longer before deciding to violate somebodies rights and get all gestapo in their home.
  8. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18502 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:56 am
    Anyone who shoots at cops that are trying to enter a home didn`t need this law anyway. This just gives them a legal excuse.

    And doesn`t every cop just wait for a court order from the local judge to enter a home anyway? That`s what 20 years of watching TV courtroom dramas have taught me. A court order wouldn`t be "unlawful intrusion" anymore, right?

    Either way, I`m pretty sure this just gives criminals another defense when they`re on trial.
  9. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 7:58 am
    Fancy, it only applies to UNLAWFUL entry.
  10. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18502 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:00 am
    DuckBoy87: There are limited characters for any given Header on I-A-B. If you can accomplish a full description with every detail of this story--and make it interesting--in 50 characters, have at it, bro.
  11. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:01 am
    A court order has never been unlawful intrusion. A court order is pretty much the definition of following the law.
  12. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:01 am
    This law has nothing to do with changing what happens, but protecting the citizen`s rights after the fact.

    If you walk in on an officer raping your wife, you WILL protect her regardless what the law says. (unless, of course, you`re a progressive and will stop and ponder `How have I personally, or society as a whole, offended this officer to cause him to rape my wife?`)

    But AFTER, the officer (or his widow) will have no recourse to state `I`m gonna sue you because what you did was illegal!`
  13. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:01 am
    Where the line will get really blurry is when someone just thinks it`s illegal entry even when it`s legal and they`ll shoot. Fancy is right about this just being another defense in court, but it`s like I said in another thread, most people won`t know where that line is because they don`t understand the precise nature of the law, they`ll just think "Sweet, now I can shoot `dem piggies wif mah 12-gauge iff`n they come in mah castle."
  14. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:04 am
    (unless, of course, you`re a progressive and will stop and ponder `How have I personally, or society as a whole, offended this officer to cause him to rape my wife?`)
    Sometimes, MeGrendel, when you talk here this is what I wish I could pull a Ron Swanson.


  15. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:05 am
    I totally agree with you patchgrabber, but i still want this law in my state, I want the days of the untouchable officer to be over.
  16. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:05 am
    @yusuk: I don`t think the law is necessarily bad either, I just see a big court case in your state`s future is all.
  17. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:08 am
    Im not in Indiana, but it is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out the first time a black man shoots a white cop in his house.
  18. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:09 am
    Or even worse, a white guy shoots a black cop, oh man, the potential for disaster is high.
  19. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:09 am
    Apologies @Yusuk, when you said you still want this law in your state I just assumed.
  20. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18502 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:10 am
    yusuksomuch: Right. That`s why I don`t think this law will make much of an impact. Most cops entering a house know they need a court order from a judge to enter a house. A cop just entering a home without warning is nuts.

    Also, what if a cop just walks up the porch of a home and plans to knock on the door--no entry, just knocking on the door of someone`s home? Where`s the line of `Unlawful Entry` drawn? Sidewalk? Porch?

    And what`s defined as `property.` Will a car fall under this law? As the article states, if a cop in Indiana pulls over a car, and it`s just the cop and the driver, no one else around, could the driver shoot the cop and later state that he was defending himself from the cop`s unlawful entry?

    It`s easy for a cop to stay out of harms way from avoiding gunfire from a legal home entry (lots of witnesses around), but if cars fall into the definition of property, things can get a lot stickier.
  21. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:18 am
    this law doesnt target "most cops" just the ones who abuse their power
  22. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:19 am
    @Fancy: What concerns me is if the officer looks into the front window and sees drug paraphernalia or other illegal items. That gives them the right to enter without a court order does it not? That is the kind of situation I see getting an officer shot.
  23. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:20 am
    Your other points are well met, I don`t know all the legal definitions in play here, but I suspect I am going to learn alot about it in the near future, as will we all.
  24. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    740 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:29 am
    The reality of this is that a cop is just another person in a different uniform. If I feel the need to kill somene to defend my family or my home, I don`t care how they are dressed or what the law is.
    I am going to protect my family without regard to the consequences later, especially when there may not be a later if I don`t.
  25. Profile photo of Mikeoxsbiggg
    Mikeoxsbiggg Male 30-39
    1502 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:32 am
    Thats disgusting.
  26. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:34 am
    patchgrabber-"I wish I could pull a Ron Swanson. "

    I am rather pleased to say that I don`t know what the hell a `Ron Swanson` is.

    I realize the `progressive` joke was off topic, but it goes back to a humorous artilcle about `A Liberal`s Guide to Self-Defense`. Sorry if you didn`t get, or appreciate, the joke. Of course I don`t think a progressive would actually DO such a thing.
  27. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:35 am
    I don`t think having this law is necessary. Maybe in Indiana since they have set a legal precedent that protects cops in almost all situations. We don`t need to make laws that deal specifically with cops, they just need to be accountable under the same laws we all live under. If a cop breaks into your house and they don`t have any legal right to do so and they get shot, guess what, you shouldn`t be charged with anything but self defense. If a cop breaks into your house and they end up killing someone and they had no right to be there, they should be charged with murder. The problem is the immunity cops end up getting from the same laws they claim to enforce. If cops are accountable for their actions under the same laws they seek to protect we will have more accountable and better cops. The second you start protecting them you make a dangerous situation for all the people they are suppose to protect.
  28. Profile photo of dstbstr
    dstbstr Male 18-29
    28 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:35 am
    We can see where we are as a country when so many people are willing to give up their 4th amendment rights. This law was passed in response to a ruling which stated that Indiana residents could NOT defend themselves from an office, even when the officer entered the property unlawfully. Now we just need to get the TSA to respect the 4th amendment too...
  29. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:37 am
    Oh MeGrendel, I know why you wrote it, I got a chuckle. ;-) Progressives can come across as p*ssies, we just don`t see it that way.
  30. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:43 am
    This concerns me. I definitely think that cops are often overly-aggressive and that`s a real problem, but this doesn`t seem to be the right way of reigning them in at all. If someone assumes the cop is entering unlawfully, they`re more likely to shoot now because they`ll think they have a defense. But what if the cop does have a search warrant. I foresee lots of problems here.
  31. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:46 am
    To add to what I said...

    If I mess up at work, it costs my company money and I get fired.

    When a cop messes up at work, it costs someone their life and they walk away with a month of paid leave paid for by the public put in danger by said cop.
  32. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:50 am
    vv wish we had something like a "like" button for comments
  33. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:52 am
    Now we just need to get the TSA to respect the 4th amendment too...
    Having done the equivalent of the TSA job in Canada, I can say that we, at least, needed to ask permission before we searched someone/looked in a bag etc. I don`t know if the TSA has to ask, but up here you can say stop at any time. When people would joke around and say "What if I say no?" I would tell them that Greyhound has reasonable rates.

    Bottom line: It`s not your right to fly. If you want to do that then you have to go by their rules. You can always take the bus/train.
  34. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:54 am
    I`m pretty sure the state of Texas can shoot cops if they step far enough out of line. What I would really like to see in my state is a law that would prevent the death penalty being applied in cases where cops got killed while they were undercover. The way I see it they accept the risk of not being identified without their uniform.
  35. Profile photo of dstbstr
    dstbstr Male 18-29
    28 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 8:58 am
    Stating that it`s not our right to fly is accurate, but irrelevant in the discussion. The TSA is intending to move outside of airports, and into all public transportation. We`re giving up more of our freedoms for the illusion of security. It may be a privilege to fly, but I pay for that privilege. It is, however, my right to have protection from illegal search and seizure without probably cause. Unless I appear to be dangerous, it is unconstitutional to search my belongings.
  36. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 9:34 am
    @dstbstr: I don`t see how it`s irrelevant. Yes, you pay, but you have to abide by their rules. I agree with you 100% that it`s just smoke-and-mirrors, the illusion of security. I could tell you 5 ways to get a bomb on a plane here without ever getting on the plane itself.

    As I said before, I don`t know the TSA rules, but since you aren`t forced to get the search (i.e. you aren`t forced to fly), and you can tell them to stop whenever you want, you are hamstrung. It`s their way or the highway, literally. But if the TSA were profiling people using the Israeli model, your people would b*tch about it being racist/unfair/etc. How is a TSA person to know that you are dangerous unless they search your belongings and/or person?
  37. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 9:39 am
    ...But I see where you`re coming from, that the searches are unreasonable. Unfortunately, the law interprets it a different way, since people have tried to blow up planes fairly recently in your country. I think where it falls apart is that since you are never forced to submit, you give permission and therefore it is not unreasonable.
  38. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6667 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 9:55 am
    The law itself may be reasonable, it`s what people will think it says that could get some police officers killed. Many people are not very bright or good at making decisions. Many people have scrambled their brains through drugs or booze. These are the people the police spend quite a lot of time encountering.

    They may well find that their defence is not valid, but the cop stays dead. I don`t know how it works in the US, but in the UK the police don`t need a warrant if they believe a crime is in progress. Which is only sensible, really.

    So, scenario; neighbours report screams and sounds of violence coming from a house where the guy has a history of domestic violence. They arrive, hear screams, no reply when they knock. They break down the door.

    They guy is drunk, not bright and vaguely heard that you can shoot a cop for home invasion. Is he more or less likely to try and shoot it out? Are the cops, knowing this, more or less likely to shoot at the first sign o
  39. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 10:00 am
    @LordJim: I believe you are correct. Also, police are never alone. If a person shoots one cop, the others are likely to kill him.
  40. Profile photo of 8BitHero
    8BitHero Male 18-29
    5414 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 10:01 am
    About time. But getting rid of guns would be better.
  41. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6667 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 10:03 am
    of non-compliance. (Hey that was only 999 characters!)
    h
    Having said that I agree that the police get away with far too much when they kill someone illegally. They are trained professionals (or if they are not your society is in bad trouble) and should be held more accountable not less for misusing their power and being reckless of human life.
  42. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 10:25 am
    Blah blah blah you people disgust me with your arguments. Cops kill innocent people all the time, no one cares. What goes around comes around.
  43. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 11:38 am

    You know what would compliment this thread nicely?
    A Pro-Gun thread.
    Like the video I`ve submitted a half dozen times that can`t get approved because it doesn`t fit in with some mods anti-gun bias.

    Just a thought. Go back to your bickering.
  44. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6667 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 11:41 am
    @Agent00Smith

    `Blah blah blah you people disgust me with your arguments`

    Wow! You are so edgy and cool. Can I be your friend?
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 11:52 am
    I`m betting this will make cops double check their address on warrants from now on, those no=knock warrants especially.
  46. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 11:54 am
    Gerry: That was your submission? I seen it in the `live submission` list, liked it. It should be posted.
  47. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    Hellz yea!!! Citizens have a right to defend themselves from illegal entry by ANYONE. F*CK THE PO-LEESE!
  48. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    CrakrJak - if they ever post the video I`ll blog the back story of the attacker and the survivors. Or if you want the long winded version the Young Turks reported on it. takes 5 minutes
  49. Profile photo of Stonardsftw
    Stonardsftw Male 18-29
    321 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    Finally.
  50. Profile photo of UserIDTaken9
    UserIDTaken9 Male 18-29
    52 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 1:24 pm
    Killing a cop in self defense should be at most an affirmative defense/mitigating factor. This means protecting yourself from violent rogue police officers won`t mean ending up in prison. By passing a highly publicized law specifically allowing shooting cops the police officers will end up much more trigger-happy dueto increased fear from nutjobs.
  51. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 2:01 pm
    I support this version of Stand Your Ground.
  52. Profile photo of keith2
    keith2 Male 18-29
    2587 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 3:22 pm
    Good. Hope they get shot. Shouldn`t have took the job. Never met a cop I liked. Can`t call them for help, they`ll always try and somehow twist the situation around and accuse you of a crime. That`s their job. Not to help or protect you, only to accuse you to be later prosecuted and ultimately reprimanded. That is their sole purpose, don`t put the "serve and protect" framework around it. It doesn`t stand up.
  53. Profile photo of turdburglar
    turdburglar Male 30-39
    4718 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 3:41 pm
    The problem with cops, is that the people who WANT to be cops...are the exact people who SHOULDN`T have authority.
  54. Profile photo of CynicalGamer
    CynicalGamer Male 40-49
    450 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 6:31 pm
    I live in Indiana and I am glad to see this coming to light.
  55. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    June 12, 2012 at 9:48 pm
    "The law didn`t need to be changed because there isn`t an epidemic of rogue police in Indiana, he said."

    horse poo. Come to Anderson :|
  56. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    June 13, 2012 at 10:05 am
    They`d better do it legally, then.
  57. Profile photo of MadMan66
    MadMan66 Male 18-29
    68 posts
    July 15, 2012 at 8:24 am
    @collegebound - I know this is poo old, but are you from Anderson? I live in Anderson... originally from Indianapolis. Where I work we occasionally work with the cops here, and believe me, they are some of the worst at caring about their jobs

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