In 50 Years Will People Still Believe In God?

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in Misc

The rising numbers for people under 30 who identify as non-believers and what that might mean in the future.
There are 134 comments:
Male 766
@CrakrJak - there is no god, get over it and grow up silly . . . people like you are holding back all mankind. That is right, I equate you with all other primitive superstitious religions INCLUDING intelligent design.
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Male 766
In 50 Years Will People Still Believe In God? I sure hope not. Religion, all religion, is holding mankind back from realizing our full potential. Religion could even bring down modern civilization. There are primitive tribal peoples trying to do just that right now . . .
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Male 155
One can only hope that eventually, people will have become intelligent enough to refute any potential belief in non-existent entities and fantastical, horrific fictions. Religion = joke.
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Male 3,631
Geeze, you know - we define good and evil by that which benefits our species, and further, by that which is beneficial to our individual components of it. Bacteria, viruses, Fungi and alternative predators have the right to compete for dominance as much as we do, but when this effort overrides our immunity/werewhithal we cry evil. Take the egocentric equation out of it, and what do we have but the latter scenario? I say the distinction between good and evil is the dividing line between a Will to Power, and its efficiency therein. We can debate about the intra-specie manifestation of this ad-nauseum.
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Male 12,138
Guys, I admire the effort, but save your energy when it comes to reasoning with Crakrjak on matters of science.

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Male 881
CrakrJak, I am willing to help you in your quest to prove Evolution is a lie. Mainly because I think the greatest argument for teaching kids science is having you take center stage and talk about your beliefs. Anyway, here is a list of simple things you can do to disprove Evolution:
1) Find a fossil in the wrong place. Find a mammal in the Devonian Period.
2) Show a lack of genetic variation in a species.
3) Find an adaptation that isn`t good for a species but is good for a second species.
4) Find an adaptation that could not have evolved by a step-by-step process of ever-increasing fitness.
5) find an adaptation that inimical for individuals but good for populations or species.
6) Find altruistic behavior among non-relatives in non-social animals.
7) Find discordance between phylogenies based on morphology/fossils and on DNA.

Remember, your findings will be tested by others, so it better not be your usual Christian think-tank bullpoo.
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Male 881
CrakrJak, if you know that Evolution is a lie it is easy to overthrow the whole damn thing. Simply publish a paper in a peer reviewed journal and after others have tested your hypothesis and found it genuine, *poof* the whole theory of Evolution will be thrown out and you will make headlines. You will command millions in speaking fees and will be hailed as the savior of Christianity.

Good luck! Not a single piece of evidence has been found, in 150 years of looking, that can disprove Evolution. Oh BTW, the internet twaddle that you have been parading around as evidence has been debunked decades and even a century ago by cold hard facts that are easily reproducible, even by you.
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Male 3,631
Crakr,

I appreciate that you`ve conversing with like 5 different people right now but I feel compelled to respond.

I`m about to take what you used to turn around and support your argument and throw it right back at you. How are mutations, which do not benefit a species, examples of intelligent design?

Btw, my aside about the genetic diseases I mentioned were meant as just that, an aside, though I can see how you thought I was presenting them in the context of mutation (even though downs syndrome IS typically understood as the product of a mutation). Still doesn`t answer my question though - how are genetic diseases and everything else that we find inherently, medically flawed in organic life an example of `intelligent` design, more than they are an example strictly of imperfect reproductive processes?
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Male 458
CrakrJak:

As far as Eugenics goes, I`ve already addressed it. That`s an ethical problem and in no way validates or invalidates evolution. People get hurt and killed due to the laws of physics. Things explode. Heavy things hurt and injure people. Because they are misused, by your logic, the laws of physics wouldn`t even exist.

You strike me as someone that hasn`t even bothered to honestly research their own opinions or even know when or how they might be wrong.

You are dishonest.

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Male 458
CrakrJak:

Dog evolution is dog evolution. The selection is either natural or artificial, but the principal is the same. Why are you so dense that you can`t understand it?

Evolution is the non-random selection (natural or artificial) of naturally varying replicators. By your logic, flowers aren`t evolution because bees and other insects `artificially` selected them.

Biologists are telling you that you are wrong, Crakr. Yet, you refuse to listen to them.

I`ve heard of wallowing in ignorance but you make a trophy out of it and put it on the mantle.

TheGuySmiley:

No he hasn`t. He`s regurgitation the same lies over and over again.
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Male 650
Less religion... Less war.
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Male 1,243
joeblowsglas: crakrjak has some pretty good posts in this thread, and i think the general rule of thumb is when someone starts calling another person names.. the name caller is the loser of the debate.
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Male 1,243
draculya, you said "We can but mock. Eventually they`ll think "Hey why is everyone mocking me?" and have an epiphany."

no they won`t, they`ll think this: 2 Peter 3:3 >>
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

And their faith will grow stronger as they remember these things were foretold by Christ. Besides, why leave a faith of love, for life of mocking others?

Love is the way of the future.
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Male 17,511
mesovortex: Dog breeding is design. You must be completely mentally obtuse to not know that. Your first link is a writer opinion and a falsehood. Speciation is like this. Horse`s and Donkey`s can breed, but they breed sterile Mules. Why? because they truly are different species.

Humans can and have bred animals by eliminating supposed `barriers`. A chihuahua can still be bred with a doberman, and although it might look like a mutt, it`ll have viable offspring.

The malpractice of declaring an animal a different species based solely on isolation or `barriers` makes a mockery of what speciation really is.

Your second link leads to Eugenics, trying to breed the perfect race, that`s what Hitler espoused, it`s EVIL and WRONG!

jkfld: Go hide back under your bridge.
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Male 5,413
As the top comment on this video said:

"No one brought up the fact that, just like the religions of the past which we call `myths` today, the three mono-theisms of today`s world WILL meet the same fate. As we, as a species, grow more intelligent and understand of the world and universe around us, we will continue to outgrow the need of such superstitious and dangerous beliefs.
Religion has outgrown its usefulness in this world and people are now starting to realize that fact."
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Male 5,811
You obviously have zero biology experience and have no idea how genetics works. I, on the other hand, have studied it for years and work in the fields of genomics, proteomics, and study organisms at the molecular level. Go try your "biology" elsewhere because you are just making a fool of yourself.
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Male 5,811
[quote]Apparently you can`t stand to have your worldview under any kind of scrutiny. You seem to be the type that wants to hang scientists for your perception of their heresy.[/quote]
Actually, Crakr is quite accepting of science, provided it aligns with his ideology and world view; otherwise it`s all just a conspiracy.

[quote]Mutations are so rare and detrimental that in order to carry on that mutation to a next generation requires a male and female with the same mutations to mate.[/quote]
There are many detrimental mutations, however this only supports my position that ID is BS. If design were intelligent, why are there random, harmful mutations? You are also blind to the positive mutations that have conferred resistance to malaria, bubonic plague, and AIDS. Your assertion that both male and female must carry the mutation for it to proliferate is hysterically wrong.
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Male 458
Evolution can INDEED happen with artificial-selection (man-made selection):

http://tinyurl.com/2dqcjeo
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Male 458
CrakrJak:

Apparently you can`t stand to have your worldview under any kind of scrutiny. You seem to be the type that wants to hang scientists for your perception of their heresy.
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Male 458
CrakrJak:
Dog breeding is evolution:
http://tinyurl.com/qgrg4b

It doesn`t matter what puts the selection on a population whether it`s natural or man-made. Evolution is evolution.

This isn`t what I was taught in public schools. This is what I was taught by actual biologists. I`ll trust biologists over some creationist, thank you very much.

Also, Darwin would want his theory to be modified to best fit the evidence as new evidence comes around - and it has. As far as it being `misused` - how can you say that if you say anything selected by humans isn`t evolution? Are you saying nature misuses evolution? Or wait, are you saying because gravity is used to hurt people it must also be invalid?

ID is NOT science:
http://tinyurl.com/76xgmbx

You are completely scientifically illiterate.
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Male 17,511
nayrbarr: Darwin would be aghast at the modern twisting and bending of his theory. He had the forethought enough to know that his theory could be misused and it certainly has been. Yet it persists, it persists because atheists cling to it like a warm blanket, without it their worldview is nothing.

There is design in every living thing on this Earth, but keep blinding yourself to that fact.
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Male 17,511
jkfld: My oh my. must`ve hit a nerve there.

Apparently you can`t stand to have your worldview under any kind of scrutiny. You seem to be the type that wants to hang Christians for your perception of their heresy.

You`re acting exactly like what you accuse Christians of doing, killing blasphemers by burning them at the stake, right?

You are the shining example of what atheism wants to be, the new Roman Empire, crucifying anyone that doesn`t believe as you do. Atheists like you have committed atrocities that make Hitler`s look like child`s play (Stalin & Mao).
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Male 17,511
mesovortex: [quote]Dog breeding is evolution. Horse breeding is evolution. The Nylon Bacteria is evolution.[/quote]

No it is not, human breeding of animals is NOT evolution. If that is what you were taught in school you`ve been severely lied too.

Suicism: And that`s all we have to show about mutation, that it`s almost always detrimental to the organism and not beneficial. Mutations are so rare and detrimental that in order to carry on that mutation to a next generation requires a male and female with the same mutations to mate. Genetic diseases are not `mutations`, since they don`t carry the `traits` of the parents.
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Male 166
A news media company now some-what saying that atheism is completely fine and not evil? GREAT NEWS!
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Male 365
@CrakrJak And since Darwin died we have gathered a multitude of data, transitional fossils and generally expanded our knowledge of how the world works. Frankly, quoting Darwin about the flaws in his theory is ridiculous because he only knew a fraction of what is available to modern scientists. He may have come up with the concept, but he is hardly qualified to take part in a modern debate on the subject.

In reference to an earlier post about bible quote, you can shut the f*ck up. The Old Testament is just as valid to you as the New. Your God is *eternal*. Unchanging. You can`t simply ignore half of what He`s said. Furthermore, if you`re dismissing the Old Testament, Christians are no longer entitled to use your religion in arguments concerning gay right or whatever other crap the bible is used to justify (or forbid).
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Male 365
jkfld well said :)
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Male 2,669
Jkfld and Patchgrabber are my Heroes of the Day, for turning the light of science and literacy on the face of ignorance and stupidity (that would be you, CrakrJak).
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Male 458
jkfld:

Exactly. I wonder why it`s okay to lie for the lord.
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Male 72
crakrjak is a shining example of IAB idiocy and ignorance. we should know this by now :)
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Male 5,811
[quote]Religious beliefs evolved in an environment where information was difficult to come by. That environment has changed drastically. The advent of the internet means information is now ubiquitous, easy to obtain, and easy to share. Great swaths of religion`s traditional habitat (the abjectly ignorant human mind) have been lost due to the spread of information.[/quote]
I couldn`t have said it better.
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Male 5,811
[quote]If slow change/natural selection was actually happening, we`d be literally drowning in the bones of transitional species.[/quote]
Goodness not your fossil BS again. Punctuated equilibrium, the ridiculously specific circumstances necessary for fossils to form, vestigial organs, all these laugh in the face of your pathetic argument. And irreducible complexity? I`d laugh if it wasn`t so sad, but you go ahead and use your kettle logic to spur your arguments.

God doesn`t exist because there has never been any proof that He ever has, just anecdotal nonsense.

[quote]Heres the best answer: Our human minds are too simplistic to understand the true nature of our existence.[/quote]
Argument to moderation.
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Male 15,270
"One thing is certain. You`ll never convince anyone of the existence or non-existence of god in a comment post on the Internet."

We can but mock. Eventually they`ll think "Hey why is everyone mocking me?" and have an epiphany.
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Male 878
One thing is certain. You`ll never convince anyone of the existence or non-existence of god in a comment post on the Internet. Your time is better spent in getting out more.
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Male 546
....will people still believe in God?


Only if it is trendy, and all the cool kids are doing it! (wait that`s just like now!)
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Male 296
She can only speculate. That`s what religion is all about, speculation.
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Male 3,631
CrakrJak, I don`t usually weigh in on these discussions since someone`s usually making the point for me, but you used the term credulity. With all your anecdotal evidence about the likelihood of fossil preponderance and Darwin`s own honest, scientific doubts about his own theory (which is healthy, mind you) what do you have to say about the likelihood between THESE two options as satisfactory explanations for the following:

- Genetic Mutation that is NOT beneficial to a species -

Which worldview do you think better accommodates this phenomenon? One in which mutations happen as part of the "selection of naturally varying replicators," as mesovortex describes, or one in which they must essentially be inexplicable, as the result of `intelligent` design?

I don`t know what`s so intelligent about down syndrome, parkinson`s or cerebral palsy designs.
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Male 3,631
Also - Variations on a Hominid theme -

This would include Australopithecus (both varieties), Homo-Erectus, Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon etc.

Which do you think is a more credulous explanation for these variations in our Hominid family - that they arose and fell through the course of natural selection (our lineage being the current champion), or that the ID`er simply messed-up a couple times before getting it right? And as a side note, what`s to have stopped these other highly cognitive species from having souls? Where`s the soul gene, is this part of ID too?
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Male 2,220
"If slow change/natural selection was actually happening, we`d be literally drowning in the bones of transitional species. Instead there are giant leaps of change between the fossils and the theories supporters now believe evolution oscillates between rapid change, due to stress, followed by long periods of stasis. "

Some theories suggest change is rapid and constant, but that the stress of survival of the fittest constantly pulls these changes back towards an optimal design for the current environment and competition, until things change whereupon positive feedback pushes the evolution in a consistent direction and speciation occurs to exploit the change.

Also.. we know that the eye was a significant challenge to Darwins conviction, but it has been shown with transitional models that it can evolve in small logical changes from simple light sensitive cells to the complex structures found in nature today. God not required.
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Male 1,949
I`m oxymoronic. I`m extremely agnostic. If others believe without doubt or pound the atheist drum all day, I giveth no pooteth.
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Male 987
This is not about realism or religion, evolution or creation, science or miracles. This is about the natural human desire to believe.

No amount of rational argument or logical analysis will change that. People will believe.
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Male 987
Take a look around the Internet. There are people who still believe in witchcraft, demons, spells, vampires, and werewolves. There are people who honestly believe the Earth is flat and the moon landings were faked. They are not just children; many adults believe. Fifty years from now or five hundred, there will always be people who want to believe in things that do not make sense, but there is no arguing with them. It`s in our nature. As long as we are humans, we will have some people with ridiculous beliefs.
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Male 458
CrakrJak:

1) There are thousands of transitional fossils:
http://tinyurl.com/5vvw

2) Here`s a refutation of your eye evolution quote:
http://tinyurl.com/7c6oa4v

3) We also find plenty of biomass indicating an ancient earth and that plenty of life existing. If they changed from generation to generation, that`s evolution.
http://tinyurl.com/cbnatgb

4) Evolution is the non-random selection of naturally varying replicators. Dog breeding is evolution. Horse breeding is evolution. The Nylon Bacteria is evolution.

For someone who claims to be christian, you are awfully dishonest.
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Male 4,793
"you are no different than the man who believes in God on those strength of those same texts."

That is simply insulting. I do not understand how a person of even mediocre intelligence can read the bible and accept it as fact. I`ve come to terms that people can believe whatever the hell they want. Believe me, I don`t go around arguing with every religious person I meet. However, if they try to push their filthy religion onto me, I will argue them to the grave.
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Male 4,793
"Heres the best answer: Our human minds are too simplistic to understand the true nature of our existence."

I would disagree. I believe that there is nothing the human race can not do/achieve/understand. Assuming we don`t go extinct from any number of causes, I think nothing is impossible to us if given enough time.
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Male 406
Nice post by the way... like to read the debat
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Male 406
het Crak Jack. Are those full qoutes or just some choice picks? do you even know or have you just been surfing fstdt.com?
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Male 2,586
"Religion is just a device to allow a small number of people to control a much larger number of people, always has been, always will be."

*claps*

But I would expand upon this and add:

It is a way for the feeble-minded to justify/ explain/ vent all the bad luck in their life.

...If you can`t prove God has helped you IN ANY WAY, then who says He has at all?! An outcome, positive or negative might simply be the result of luck, entropy etc
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Male 17,511
In Darwin`s own words: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

"The number of intermediate varieties which have formally existed on earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graded organic chain; and this perhaps is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."
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Male 557
Heres the best answer: Our human minds are too simplistic to understand the true nature of our existence. It is clear that the men who wrote the bible and all these other books of faith were writing them based on moral guidelines. How we should live our lives, not meant to be literally translated. Intelligent life of past generations may have very well come down to this earth and our even more simpler minds at the time could have easily mistaken them for gods. Billions of stars here in our galaxy alone, so there are a lot more out there, no mistake.
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Male 17,511
mesovortex: Wrong, I full well understand the theory of evolution, I also know it`s faults and falsehoods. If Darwin was still alive, even he would have doubts about his own theory. According to his own writings then, the `Theory` has jumped the shark and entered the realm of imagination and fantasy.

If slow change/natural selection was actually happening, we`d be literally drowning in the bones of transitional species. Instead there are giant leaps of change between the fossils and the theories supporters now believe evolution oscillates between rapid change, due to stress, followed by long periods of stasis.

Darwin warned that his own theory wouldn`t withstand credulity if natural selection couldn`t be proven.
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Male 926
[quote]Lets say I murder somebody. The consequence of the action is solely sourced from the laws of man. I will not go to hell for it, i will not be tortured for all eternity for it. Religion exists solely for mindless people. They believe the bible because the bible tells them to. The rest of us will go ahead and be adults and think for ourselves. Religion is a blemish upon the history of man-kind. It has cost us hundreds of years of progress. [/quote]

You will be punished under the laws of man that man had the free will to create. Men follow religious texts of men who had the free will to create them, and neither of those two bodies of law precludes the existence of a God who gave them the ability to do it. If you dismiss the existence of God on the basis of the illogical conclusions in religious texts, you are no different than the man who believes in God on those strength of those same texts.
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Male 926
[quote]Oh and then in defense of what I just stated, churchies will say something like "Well we go by the new testament" which is fuc*ing retarded. The god in the new testament is just as evil as the god in the old testament. [/quote]

Why are you arguing the finer points of the Bible if you don`t believe in God in the first place? If non-belief in God is genuine, it should come from an objective place, that doesn`t claim to stand for the ultimate truth of God, especially if you know to a reasonable degree of certainty that it was written by man. It should come from something more concrete, like science.

You can`t attack peoples belief in religious texts by stating your own non-beliefs based on the same text. Arguing how illogical the Bible is does nothing to disprove the existence of God. It serves only to say that certain religious people are illogical.
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Male 926
[quote]Here is an example of how churchies are retarded. Thanks to 9/11, a vast majority of them illegitimately hate muslims and chastise their religion. They are so caught up with circle-jerking each other and talking about how terrible muslims are that they don`t even realize that half of their religion IS the muslim faith. Old testament = book muslims use.[/quote]

Here`s an example of how people are retarded. Thanks to differences in the immutable characteristics of men, some choose to hate on the basis of those characteristics. And it really has nothing to do with religion at all.
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Male 5,872
god who?
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Male 1,243
I think religion as it is now will die out, because quite frankly it`s a load of old crap and it`s quite transparent to most people that this is the case. However, as long as we don`t have the scientific answers to the universe there will always be some kind of faith system out there.
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Male 4,793
Oh and then in defense of what I just stated, churchies will say something like "Well we go by the new testament" which is fuc*ing retarded. The god in the new testament is just as evil as the god in the old testament.
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Male 4,793
Here is an example of how churchies are retarded. Thanks to 9/11, a vast majority of them illegitimately hate muslims and chastise their religion. They are so caught up with circle-jerking each other and talking about how terrible muslims are that they don`t even realize that half of their religion IS the muslim faith. Old testament = book muslims use.
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Male 4,793
"Because what`s the point of giving man free will without allowing him the opportunity to see the consequences of his actions."

Lets say I murder somebody. The consequence of the action is solely sourced from the laws of man. I will not go to hell for it, i will not be tortured for all eternity for it. Religion exists solely for mindless people. They believe the bible because the bible tells them to. The rest of us will go ahead and be adults and think for ourselves. Religion is a blemish upon the history of man-kind. It has cost us hundreds of years of progress.
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Male 15,270
"I dont think ALL you guys are trolling maybe your looking for the truth"

Looking for the truth? That`s how I came to accept the saving grace of atheism into my life.
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Male 15,270
How about this: everyone is subject to religious law, except people who confess a religion are subject to all the laws of their religion as well. An aggrieved party, such as a raped woman, gets to choose which law a religious criminal is prosecuted under. That way, we`ll reduce the number of religious people by summary stoning.
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Male 109
Nottaspy

"I am happy when those of faith find peace, hope, and happiness from their faith. But unfortunately the most religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, bring horrible side affects. I would praise Christianity if it lived up to its own hype. But when it breeds bigotry, hatred, and ignorance among its radicals, and those radicals are enabled by its moderates, I will always condemn it."

Im with you 100% on this sir!sorry for misunderstanding what u said before,just be wary(im sure you are) there are some believers in Christ that arent total bigot,high and mighty douchers.It breaks my heart when i see sidewalk preachers telling people they are going to hell.....Christianity does live up to itself through the few good examples of what a real bible devoted christian is,although i feel drowned out by the sidewalk preachers and people like the WBC.And thats what happens,we get one bad example and im branded as a bigot and a gay basher that hates athies
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Male 2,220
Lol.
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Male 926
[quote]5 posts from maddux insulting peoples intelligence and debating prowess.
Lol.[/quote]

Should we try for six?
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Male 2,220
A bullet to the head would stop the crazy thoughts and crazy sentence construction soon enough.
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Male 735
i will and their aint nuthin u can doo to not make me not to
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Male 2,220
5 posts from maddux insulting peoples intelligence and debating prowess.
Lol.
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Male 926
[quote]Religion is just a device to allow a small number of people to control a much larger number of people, always has been, always will be.[/quote]

Religion is a way to control belief. Those who think for themselves reject it summarily, believing what they want.
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Male 15
Religion is just a device to allow a small number of people to control a much larger number of people, always has been, always will be.
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Male 926
[quote]Okay then, churchies, explain why god says that a rape victim must marry her rapist, or be put to death. Go ahead, explain it.

Your religion makes no fuc*ing sense.[/quote]

Because what`s the point of giving man free will without allowing him the opportunity to see the consequences of his actions. The perils of morality and malignant growths in society are the consequence of free will. Otherwise, we`d all be mindless drones praising the "will" of God.

And I`m not even Christian. Grown up.
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Male 881
I`m not trying to rid you of your faith. I`m trying to rid us all of the ugly things that some of faith inflict upon us while they preach the opposite.

I did not mean to imply you have no character. I did mean for you to understand that freedom from religion means having more freewill, not less as you implied.

I am happy when those of faith find peace, hope, and happiness from their faith. But unfortunately the most religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, bring horrible side affects. I would praise Christianity if it lived up to its own hype. But when it breeds bigotry, hatred, and ignorance among its radicals, and those radicals are enabled by its moderates, I will always condemn it.

I will also speak up and mock religion when it claims its lies to be the truth.
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Male 926
[quote]
I really wish Hitchens was around to take part in this interview.
[/quote]

Me too. Those in this thread attempting to take his place are absolute morons.
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Male 926
[quote]
There are only 3 viable conclusions regarding God.
1. He does not exist
2. He exists and doesn`t give a damn
3. He exists and is insane
Pick your poison.
[/quote]

That is a rather short sighted, naive perspective of the universe.
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Male 926
[quote]For that matter in my previous post, any of you believers out there, can you name a SINGLE time god has done anything for you? Anything at all?[/quote]

One of the stupidest questions to ask a believer. Just stupid. I don`t think I have to explain why.
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Male 926
The two main athiests in this thread sound just as idiotic as Christians who say, "look at how perfect God made the universe...take this banana for example...it comes with a ready made tab to open it."

I mean I get that you don`t believe in God, but try making arguments not spawned by 2nd graders. You guys sound like raving lunatics.
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Male 702
I really wish Hitchens was around to take part in this interview.
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Male 109
"You speak of how God had to change his approach and of his ultimate plan and it doesn`t sink in that that in itself disproves your version of God. "

Thats actually a great question! can god change his mind?

To my knowledge and in my words, maybe changing his mind WAS part of his ultimate plan.Or maybe Human freewill makes us humans completely unpredictable,which makes sense to me because Adam and Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge,which gave them the knowledge of good and evil a part of gods own knowledge(he banished them before they ate from the tree of life because they would have become gods!)that would have been bad.So then he tries to mold us into choosing good over evil,like a scientist he saw what worked and what didn`t work changing his approach to perfect us for our own good.Cool question i never thought about.
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Male 109
"We know that your identity is tied to your faith and that you may never let go because of it. But we are willing to help you try."

You try to make it seem like i have no character at all,thats not right to say. im my own person with my own beliefs,which im glad to be in a free country to exercise this,and i will say a thing or two when someone takes something that I do my best to study and twists the words of the bible what i believe to be the words of God.I appreciate you want to help me try to rid me of my faith but im happy and content with all i have and who i am. i tried the other ways and it just didn`t work for me,but Jesus works for me,this is just how i choose to live.

You said "We" alot too i believe your speaking for yourself.
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Female 2,761
religion is what you need it to be
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Male 109
"I`m glad you want to study and look things up, but you`re not doing it honestly. You start with a conclusion then look for whatever it is you want to hear. You`re not interested in anything that might show you to be wrong."

You cant say if im doing anything honestly really only i will know that in my heart and conscience,and if im not honest about anything it will take a toll on me,as it would in any honest person.I start with a question that is asked by another i then look for the answer because ive only been a believer for about 2 1/2 years.All kinds of science is intresting to me,i dont deprive myself of any knowledge i try to do my best.
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Male 881
Justahuman, you speak of freewill as you parrot someone else`s interpretation of the Bible and lead you life within it`s confines. I know what freewill is since I am free from religion.

You speak of how God had to change his approach and of his ultimate plan and it doesn`t sink in that that in itself disproves your version of God.

You speak of whats in God mind and then rebuff people here for acting as if they know yours.

The reality is, we already understand all that you have said and rejected it as absurd. We understand that God saved you and we feel pity that you couldn`t save yourself. We understand that you don`t get it when we say that all the good things you like about God, you can have without God. You don`t get it when we try to explain that religion brings a lot of bad with that good. We know that your identity is tied to your faith and that you may never let go because of it. But we are willing to help you try.
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Male 12,138
The way I see it, religion is just going the same way as many other ancient, antiquated world-views. Not to say that there`s anything wrong with a sense of personal spirituality per se, but organized religion is dying, at least in the advanced, modern First World. And I`m neither happy nor sad about that, just making an observation.

Out with the old, in with the new. It`s always been the way. Personally, I think in time* school kids will look back on organised religion with the same kind of interest we currently have for neolithic cave-paintings. An interesting snapshot of thinking at that point in human evolution, one that lingered, caused a lot of sh*t at that point in time, but no more than that.

*when I say "in time", I`m thinking episodes of Star Trek. But, you know, in the future.
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Male 2,216
Being able to think for myself has pretty much ruined the fear and hate that is religion for me.
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Male 458
CrakrJak:

I`m not the one who is repeatedly trying to mix the new and old testaments together. Look at the christians who want to ban gay marriage, or want the 10 commandments everywhere, or look to Revelations for the end times and all that nonsense.

The non believers are just pointing out your hypocrisy.

By the way, you still haven`t a clue what evolution is and what it isn`t. You don`t seem to be willing to educate yourself on it either.

Justahuman:
I`m glad you want to study and look things up, but you`re not doing it honestly. You start with a conclusion then look for whatever it is you want to hear. You`re not interested in anything that might show you to be wrong.
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Male 109
I dont think ALL you guys are trolling maybe your looking for the truth,just like i did.And maybe you can find the truth like i did.i remember using all of these out of context arguments when i was 16-19 btw that`s why they bore me.I like it when non-belivers ask me questions i don`t have the answer too,so i can study and find things out about god that i have never thought about which grows me deeper in my faith and is very exciting because god has never let me down, i look for the truth and he has never and will never dissapoint me.
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Male 109
"For that matter in my previous post, any of you believers out there, can you name a SINGLE time god has done anything for you? Anything at all?"

He taught me how to love everyone no matter who they are and what they believe in.

yea i could go on forever with this man,God has done so much in my life.

btw more attacks on the old testament....so lame....

and with the holy wars, ill go back to what i said already,You think 9/11 was sad for you Rick_S? those people were your brothers and sisters,but they are Gods very own children! And he was forced to watch them murder one another.Gods heart breaks for what breaks yours and even more so because they do it in HIS own name sometimes.I cant imagine the pain we put him through everyday through our blood lust and misguidance.
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Male 17,511
mesovortex, TKD_Master, xiquiripat, Steelgrid: You`ve all demonstrated your ignorance of the bible more than once and keep using the same old tired atheist rhetoric over and over.

Your rhetoric usually goes like this.
#1 Find obscure Old Testament passage
#2 Take passage completely out of context
#3 Wrongly apply Jewish Old Testament law to Christians
#4 Declare that God and all Christians are evil.

You`re all sad ignorant trolls, that are vomiting up weak arguments made by other atheist trolls decades ago. I pity you, not because you`re not Christians, but for the fact that you troll Christians to make believe you`re smarter.
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Male 109
"For that matter in my previous post, any of you believers out there, can you name a SINGLE time god has done anything for you? Anything at all?"

God saved me from myself,he saved my life.
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Male 109
"Until you realize that some of us don`t consider the bible an authority on anything your posts are going to not work for those that can think for themselves."

I realize this,i set things straight when people act like they know what they are talking about when they speak about my beliefs is all.People tend to take things out of context when they don`t understand the bible when speaking about the bible.
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Male 109
"Okay then, churchies, explain why god says that a rape victim must marry her rapist, or be put to death. Go ahead, explain it."

Ok i will give it a go, not to prove a point but to help you understand.and....cmon man bashing the old testament......thats new...you could have just looked this up yourself.

Ok so this is old Mosaic law if an engaged woman was raped the rapist would be put to death by stoning(not the good kind either),if she was not engaged then the rapist was not stoned for the sake of the woman’s social and financially security. losing her virginity she would have been undesirable for marriage and in the culture of the day, a woman without a husband to provide for her would be forced to a life of poverty,and social ostracism.

the problem here is that your comparing a 2000 year old culture to a modern one.

and also When Jesus died on the cross that saved us from all the old testament Mosaic laws,we dont have to follow th
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Male 208
I`m a believer but not in the traditional sense. The believe in God is will not disappear. Ask yourselves, what is God?
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Male 458
Justahuman:

Until you realize that some of us don`t consider the bible an authority on anything your posts are going to not work for those that can think for themselves.

It might be what convinced you, but some of us just are not that gullible.
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Male 2,700
"You speak truth,the children of God will endure to the end,even in the darkest times and places His light will shine."

Except you fail to realize that the darkest of times has usually been spawned in the name of god.

Or am I imagining the Crusades?

Or the inquisition?

Or the Bible`s take on the rights of Blacks, Gays, Women?

Or perhaps ill draw from the history YOU believe, maybe killing all the first born of a country?

Or pressing the reset button with a flood, then spawning a bunch of colors to say "oh its ok"

Or maybe the kid who was teased and prayed to god for revenge, so god sent bears to maul the bullies?

Man this is too easy, as it always is
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Male 2,700
For that matter in my previous post, any of you believers out there, can you name a SINGLE time god has done anything for you? Anything at all?
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Male 2,700
"Later in life most people, like you, do come back for one reason or the other. I know of people who were devout atheists that one day just came to an epiphany and realized that there really is a God and that he cares about them. "

Oooooooh really. Then tell us, o great believer, what has god EVER done for you in your current lifetime? Cmon can you name a single thing that god has actually done for you?
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Male 2,422
There are only 3 viable conclusions regarding God.
1. He does not exist
2. He exists and doesn`t give a damn
3. He exists and is insane
Pick your poison.

However, have you seen all the kids those Mormons have? He`s not going to run out of worshipers any time soon.
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Male 4,793
Wait let me explain it for you. It`s because your religion is completely made up. None of it exists, though some of it may loosely be based upon real events. It only ever existed as a form of control. In 1000 years when times have changed and morals have evolved, there will probably have been a "whole new series of books" found for the bible. "found".
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Male 4,793
Okay then, churchies, explain why god says that a rape victim must marry her rapist, or be put to death. Go ahead, explain it.

Your religion makes no fuc*ing sense.
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Male 2,855
hipsters will believe in god
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Male 109
NottaSpy

You either didn`t understand what i said,or you don`t know that God will not come down and physically intervene again until judgment day where he will make everything right again in one swoop(so yes he will stop evil once and for all).In the old testament he intervened many times showed great miracles destroyed evil and sent emissaries and prophets of god to bring peace and justice but over and over again his emissaries were rejected and his miracles ignored.We "the rational people" screwed up over and over again,so he did do something different,he conquered sin so that it wont hurt us,gave us an example of how to live a good life through Jesus, and now he hopes for the good in us too out do the bad preserving our freewill.God is not a prick he has had great patience with us because he loves us so.
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Male 3,894
Humanity follows this trend fairly often. We cycle back and forth between a highly religious population and a highly secular population every few generations.

The more mainstream church sects get, the more secular they become. After a while you`ve got a bunch of fat lazy religions that aren`t very zealous in their beliefs, and a small, passionate new sect will sweep in and light a fire under everyone, and the fervor will spread. Then it slowly goes back down as the fire burns low.

We`re just on a downswing, coming back off the wave that peaked around the `50s and `60s. Religion isn`t on its way out (whether you believe that`s a good thing or a bad thing).
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Male 926
I don`t want to be around when and if we figure it all out. I don`t want to be around the day people stop believing in some form of God. Even if that belief is substantially diverse, and even if at times discussions of such things leads to mindless fits of rage (kind of like what I just read in this thread).

Also....interesting display of "Law of Attraction" manifesting itself in society. Hardcore athiest and hardcore christian are equivalent.
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Male 458
CrakrJak:

I know plenty of older people who gave up religion later in life because they were wiser as they got older. What`s your point?

I also know plenty of people like myself who gave up christianity after reading the bible. I know I did.

I`m going to Godwin this thread, but you know who else killed people or condemned them for not worshiping him?

Also, have you bothered to learn anything about evolution yet, or are you still arguing against a straw man?
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Female 2,228
Crakr, my age group is vastly different from the generation that witnessed the `60s.

And another thing, my spirituality isn`t mainstream or organized, I`m just watching from the bleachers on this one, and I don`t feel any need to "go back to" anything because there is nothing to "go back to." My Goddess suits me just fine, thanks. She may not be your cup of tea, and that`s fine by me. I don`t believe anyone has to follow my path on pain of fiery damnation.
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Male 881
[quote]You think 9/11 was sad for you Rick_S? those people were your brothers and sisters,but they are Gods very own children! And he was forced to watch them murder one another.Gods heart breaks for what breaks yours and even more so because they do it in HIS own name sometimes.I cant imagine the pain we put him through everyday through our blood lust and misguidance.[/quote]
Wow, your God is a prick! It pains us because we couldn`t stop it and we are now doing what we can to prevent it in the future. Your God had the power to stop it. He had 2,000 years of doing it his way and that hasn`t changed a thing.

Time for some rational people to a crack at it.
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Male 109
"Been there, done that. Was an atheist, found a personal relationship with Jesus, then watched 9/11 unfold, in the name of the same god I worshiped, and realized I couldn`t accept that any god would let that happen."

You think 9/11 was sad for you Rick_S? those people were your brothers and sisters,but they are Gods very own children! And he was forced to watch them murder one another.Gods heart breaks for what breaks yours and even more so because they do it in HIS own name sometimes.I cant imagine the pain we put him through everyday through our blood lust and misguidance.
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Male 3,332
"Later in life most people, like you, do come back for one reason or the other. I know of people who were devout atheists that one day just came to an epiphany and realized that there really is a God and that he cares about them."

Been there, done that. Was an atheist, found a personal relationship with Jesus, then watched 9/11 unfold, in the name of the same god I worshiped, and realized I couldn`t accept that any god would let that happen.
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Male 340
People will always believe in their personal gods. Christianity..? Islam? Their doctrines change every day, and so do the interpretations. Your stupid religion is not the same as god.
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Male 17,511
QueenZira: People in your age group have put aside religion, temporarily, since the 1960`s at least.

Later in life most people, like you, do come back for one reason or the other. I know of people who were devout atheists that one day just came to an epiphany and realized that there really is a God and that he cares about them.
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Male 1,243
tfizzle: obviously!
LordJim: you`ll know in due time.
TKD_Master: Well, after reading your diatribe, it`s possible that you may have missed the point of the Bible. hint: "Love One another as i have loved you" :D
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Male 109
TheGuySmiley

You speak truth,the children of God will endure to the end,even in the darkest times and places His light will shine.
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Male 109
TKD_Master

This is YOUR interpretation of the bible TKD_Master,all im gonna say is you have no clue.And that Lucifer was infatuated with himself he thought he could do a better job than god he challenged god to a skirmish and lost.He wanted to make everyone at peace and perfect which in turn would make everyone mindless SLAVES that can only love him(which he would have basked in)God understands the importance to make a choice between good or evil,its beautiful to choose too love,God understands you cannot force people to love you because that is not true love.He cannot force us to be peaceful because he wants us to stand up for what is right on our own.Like a good father he taught us and disciplined us when it was necessary he gave us the instruction manual to live a good life and he lets us go out into the world to put his word into motion.He taught us how to live through Jesus,Now he is hoping for the best from the children he loved and died for, ALL OF US.
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Male 25
If, if, if . . . it`s what irritates me the most. . . if the leader of the Atheist coalition wouldn`t let his bias bleed into his rhetoric we`d be in a better place. "brainwashed" "man-in-the-sky" "pitied" and "oh, I can know the future" "shut their mind off and believe in something ridiculous".

Sounds like he wants to champion belittling others IMO.
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Male 759
I still believe in my god - He`s called Kevin and he`s a bit self-concious so i don`t need to worship him.
In fact, he prefers it if i leave him alone to eat eucalyptus leaves and play with himself.

He didn`t create the universe though, that`s just silly.
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Male 718
They will be Pitied? Just for believing their is a god, or a higher being then we humans? this guy is the VERY REASON i cannot stand in your face Atheist`s! they act like they are somehow SO MUCH BETTER then anyone else just because they have a different mindset or belief then the person standing next to them. i would have told this guy to go drat himself straight away!..
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Male 2,344
religion should die.

it is a man made concept and has nothing to do with God.

also, atheist are cool by me so long as they respect my beliefs and I respect theirs.
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Male 1,497
I have magic underwear.
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Male 7,123
@TheGuySmiley

What kind of god are you imagining that could concern itself with something as trivial as sovereignty of the universe?
That`s a small god in a big universe.
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Male 687
I bet that there will be some sort of "religious war" in the next 20 years just because some people are so stupid and scared of atheists
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Male 406
Well as long as 50% of the world population are dumber than average, there will always be someone to believe in mumbo jumbo, just look at all the silly diets and poo people buy in to....
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Female 2,228
I`ve seen the research from Pew too, and it doesn`t bear out what they seem to think it does. "Nones" who report having no official affiliation are growing in number, they report no affiliation with traditional organized religion, but they *do* still believe in a higher power(s) of some kind.

What this says of course is that institutional forms of religion are dying, organized religion is quickly becoming anathema to my age group, but not spirituality itself. When the structures of conventional belief finish crumbling there will be something left, but it will be personal, free form and non dogmatic. In short, everything conventional religion today *isn`t*.
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Female 846
well, the amount of religious people may be declining, but the ones that are still here get crazier and crazier every day.
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Male 7,123
Religion isn`t going anywhere. It may decline in the face of education and people placing human rights above ancient dogma but as long as people fear death the promise of eternal life will find takers.

So will snake-oil, but that`s just my opinion. Nothing to do with me.
As far as religion in the public square is concerned if your religous beliefs inspire you, good luck. If they entitle you, we have a problem.

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Male 275
Yes! But which one?
I think its going to be a anorld clone sent back from the future to save conner!

Also very believable, not at all made up studies, show that religious people breed like vermin with children, animals and whatnot. They will still be around in 50++ years.
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Male 98
Tabbed out with this playing and looked at the other content on IAB.
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Male 1,558
The golden age of reasoning is to come!!!!
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Male 7,774
Sorry, but religion and God are man-made. It`s to keep everyone in their place. It`s your own fear that keeps you from questioning things.
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Male 4,793
Also, FU*K YOU RELIGIOUS FUC*S for the christian dark ages, you stupid fuc*ing bastards.
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Male 4,793
"Yes, people will believe in God for all time to come. Of this, you can be certain! In due time, every person that ever lived will know the truth about God: God is real, and God is the greatest and most sovereign of all! "

Actually, according to your bible, god is a total dick. One of his Angels stands up to his tyranny, the angel doesnt want to just be gods slave anymore. The angel demands fair equality and a free will. What does god do? He banishes him to unimaginable torture for all eternity. Satan is NOT the evil one in the bible, God is. So congratulations, you have been brainwashed to worship an evil god. Read your bible, question why everything happens, and THINK FOR YOURSELF. You`ll realize how terrible it is.
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Male 2,436
No
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Male 2,552
I-A-B should stay away from two thing: politics and religion.
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Male 1,243
Yes, people will believe in God for all time to come. Of this, you can be certain! In due time, every person that ever lived will know the truth about God: God is real, and God is the greatest and most sovereign of all!
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Male 1,178
At the end of the day, it`s a personal choice, but I really think the world would be a better place without religion.
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Male 625
Please, let`s hope so.
Don`t get me wrong, I still want everyone to be free to believe whatever they want to believe. But if religion would go extinct, not a single tear would be shed by me
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Female 8,043
Link: In 50 Years Will People Still Believe In God? [Rate Link] - The rising numbers for people under 30 who identify as non-believers and what that might mean in the future.
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