America`s Health Care System = A Massive Pig

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in

Is health care a privilege or a right?
There are 65 comments:
Male 621
@OldOllie: You obviously have no idea that the legitimate functions of government are not solely contained in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Furthermore, if *you* had actually read the US Constitution you`d be aware that the *first* of Congress` enumerated powers is to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts AND PROVIDE FOR THE common defence (sic.) and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States" (emphasis mine). This is the same part of the Constitution that gives Congress the right to make laws supporting education and farming.

If you`re going to chide someone for not reading something, you might want to make sure you`ve read it and understood it yourself first.
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Female 595
I think we`ve reached maximum troll overdrive here *LOL*
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Male 10,855
[quote]to the idea that having more babies means that your system is strained and a greater percentage are dying as a result, it appears that you are DRASTICALLY misunderstanding what the infant mortality RATE actually *is*.[/quote]


Actually now that you mention it I decided to delve a little deeper into this anomoly. Turns out how infant mortality is calculated is inconsistent on a global basis. On the other hand considering you haven`t nitpicked at anything else it`s a bit of a stretch to say I`m uninformed.
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Male 2,850
@Cajun247

"infant mortality is because we have a higher birth rate"

*facepalm*

Unless you`re referring, in a roundabout way, to the idea that having more babies means that your system is strained and a greater percentage are dying as a result, it appears that you are DRASTICALLY misunderstanding what the infant mortality RATE actually *is*.

If that`s the case, you shouldn`t be claiming to have an informed opinion on this subject.
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Male 646
9 times out of 10 IAB`ers from the "Southern US" don`t know poo from shinola. Why are most of you so incredibly ignorant and stupid?
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Male 10,855
[quote]mortality & infant mortality[/quote]

Well lets see life expantancy (assuming that`s what you meant) isn`t too different among developed countries so yeah not a good indicator, and infant mortality is because we have a higher birth rate. Meanwhile only a fifth of breast cancer patients die in the US while the fraction is higher in other countries.

[quote]if your government actually makes profit on you than you got bigger problems than health care[/quote]

That is THE VERY NATURE of people and thus THE VERY NATURE OF GOVERNMENT not just AMERICAN GOVT but ANY GOVT. Thus, because the govt doesn`t have to deal with those pesky market signals like businesses do, it is slow, inefficient and, if left unchecked, can use force to get results despite the consequences.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Your organ donor system is a charity?[/quote]

No there would be times hospitals would provide free services people would see the generosity and go to THAT hospital more often, or donate money.

[quote]why are the actual transplant operations then not part of charity[/quote]

What says they aren`t?

[quote]If organ donor wasn’t set like this, a kidney would go for couple of mill, a heart for half a billion, etc.[/quote]

Ironically banning people from selling their organs has created a scarcity.

[quote]You’re getting away w/ it because it’s not at once and people the injustice is done to are mostly dead, but give it couple more decades & there will be enough relatives, children & parents of those who died who`ll pay you back for your greed.[/quote]

...or we do away with the ridiculous overregulation allowing the markets to provide better healthcare.
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Male 2,221
Healthcare and Oil. my a$$ hurts.
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Female 65
OldOllie- "if you needed surgery, you waited all your life in communism"?? Ha, ha, that`s ridiculous, you don`t know what you`re talking about, but that`s OK I don`t even know what you`re discussing now anyway.
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Female 65
The supposedly long wait lines in Canada are BS, another scare tactic propagated by big insurance companies. My relative was diagnosed with colon cancer at 83 yrs old, had the surgery to remove half her colon 2.5 weeks later, chemo 2 weeks after. The cancer has spread to lymph nodes, she’s still completely covered at 86 yrs old with no death panels discussing her case. That is an average case in Canada. Oh and she`s still living and thriving despite a myriad of health problems.

“:...and replaced it with another profit grabbing middle man - the Government” – if your government actually makes profit on you than you got bigger problems than health care, I’m done.

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Female 65
It will eventually lead to the breakdown of society “elaborate”.
If you had a gross injustice such as lack of healthcare done to so many people all AT ONCE you’d certainly have social uprisings– riots, etc. You’re getting away w/ it because it’s not at once and people the injustice is done to are mostly dead, but give it couple more decades & there will be enough relatives, children & parents of those who died who`ll pay you back for your greed.

Your organ donor system is a charity? Wrong - why are the actual transplant operations then not part of charity? If organ donor wasn’t set like this, a kidney would go for couple of mill, a heart for half a billion, etc. It`d be immoral. It`s a scarce resource w/ no alternatives,like health care.

Your link claims that mortality & infant mortality aren`t good indices of better healthcare but the greater no. of procedures done in US is! LMAO,classic stats manipulation
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Male 148
For all the people who complain about it the NHS system in the UK worked well until recently when the population exploded, and still works reasonably well even now (I`m not even going to entertain a conversation on why the population has exploded, as much as I would like to, since it is not relevant to this topic).

Rather than running hospitals for profit and having the government pay for use, have the government run the hospitals in the first place. Because they are then not run as for profit enterprises, it is cheaper, and make health care for everyone much more affordable.
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Male 15,832
HiEv, you obviously have no clue as to what is a legitimate function of government and what is not. The purpose of government should be to protect the rights of individuals. It`s all spelled out in the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You ought to try reading them sometimes.
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Male 15,832
@stell, Stalin cound not have starved the Ukranians without centralized government control, i.e., socialism -- no socialism, no starvation. The very essence of socialism IS "fat bastards" at the top making decisions for everyone else. And yes, they DID control the food supply at evrery step from the collective farm to the government store. They also controlled the supply of everything else, and they had chronic shortages of EVERYTHING. You had go stand in line for bread, and you had to wait for YEARS to get a car. And if you needed major surgery, you likely waited for the rest of your life.

The problem we have isn`t due to a lack of government control. The US hasn`t had a free-market health care system since WW II. The problem with our health care system is that it`s already about 70% socialist. The bigger problem, though, is idiots like you who think the problem is that it`s ONLY 70% socialist.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Way to ruin the comments Cajun247.[/quote]

Oooohh I`m so scared by a former moderator`s finger-waiving. Oooohh!
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Male 7,378
Way to ruin the comments Cajun247.
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Male 39,955

snicker @ StudentLaw ... "old trollie" haha
You know that`s coming up again some day
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Male 10,855
[quote">It will eventually lead to the breakdown of the society[/quote">

Please elaborate.

[quote">Would you let the organs go to the highest bidder instead of the sickest person?[/quote">

False dichotomy. Charity is possible in a free market system as it`s good PR.

[quote">Finally, don`t believe the scare stories about our system - it`s simply not true. Our wait lines are not that long, our care is very good there is no such thing as death panels and doctors get paid very well by the government.[/quote">

One of the 5 Myths of socialized medicine

[quote">We simply removed the profit grabbing middle man - the greedy insurance companies.[/quote">

...and replaced it with another profit grabbing middle man - the Government.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Soviets never took over providing food for their citizens. The shortages were result of fat bastards in top Politburo scheming & stealing money for themselves. Not much different from capitalism today except now it`s corporations doing the stealing. [/quote]

Right which is what the SOCIALIST SYSTEM gave them the power to do so. You also make yet another failed criticism of capitalism as obviously got it confused with cronysim.

[quote]I can walk into my doctor`s office, be seen, walk out and never see a bill. I can go to the hospital and be treated, go home and never see a bill.[/quote]

Your hospital bill:
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Male 1,471
Americans truly are a strange people.. They can look at this chart and still think their system is the best in the world..
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Male 1,397
....was there any need for that bloody awful music?
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Male 1,010
OldOllie: I don`t know who this Ricardo is, but he is a terrible philosopher - that`s for sure.

Rights imposes obligations on others. In general legal philosophy rights answer to obligations, just like freedom answer to prohibition. A known example is if you get arrested the police will say "you have the right to an attorney" and if you can`t afford one, you will get one anyway - because of the governments obligation to provide one.

This "logic" of yours is representative for the rest of your deluded argumentation as well, especially the part where you use the Soviet as an example of public health care.

You should change your nick to "OldTrollie" ... :-p
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Female 65
And finally, in all our cases it`s the doctors who took the hippocratic oath to do the best for the patient, who are making the decisions about the care, not the insurance corporations who have to answer to shareholders regarding their profit. Enough said.
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Female 65
Old Ollie - That is the biggest problem with your healthcare, they can make so much money, because no one can actually walk away and say, I`ll do without, that they refuse cases they deem not profitable. It will eventually lead to the breakdown of the society. Anyway, would you let your organ donor system be similar to healthcare? Would you let the organs go to the highest bidder instead of the sickest person? That would be immoral wouldn`t it? So why are you doing the same with healthcare?
Finally, don`t believe the scare stories about our system - it`s simply not true. Our wait lines are not that long, our care is very good there is no such thing as death panels and doctors get paid very well by the government. We simply removed the profit grabbing middle man - the greedy insurance companies.
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Female 65
OldOllie 1)10 mil Ukrainians died from DELIBARATE starvation ordered by Stalin not due to shortages,it`s considered a genocide.
2)Soviets never took over providing food for their citizens. The shortages were result of fat bastards in top Politburo scheming & stealing money for themselves. Not much different from capitalism today except now it`s corporations doing the stealing.
3)Of course your lines for healthcare are shorter than those in Canada because...... NOT EVERYONE GETS TO STAND IN LINE in you country!
4)Those Canadian licence plates you see close to the borders (btw how do you see that in the midwest) are us doing our shopping..
5)Healthcare is a right. It`s unique from food/shelter. You have alternatives for those. You can grow their own food for ex., whereas healthcare is a service with scarce resources.It creates situations where providers having no competition(witch doctors not as good)can increasingly charge more,refuse cases with little profit, etc.
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Male 621
@OldOllie: Just curious, but how exactly do you think that all of the public services you enjoy get paid for? If you think you deserve to be protected from injustice, then you need to help pay for the police, the courts, and the rest to protect you. Paying to make sure we all receive healthcare is no different.

I honestly do not see how any person can, in good conscience, think that an honest citizen deserves WORSE healthcare than a convicted criminal in our prison system.

As for the "death panels", please stop listening to conservative nonsense and get a real education in the facts. Repeating the falsehoods of FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of those prejudiced liars just makes you look ignorant.
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Male 15,832
In the words of that great Cuban-American philosopher Ricky Ricardo, lemme `splian you sumpthin.

A right cannot impose an obligation on another person; therefore, health care cannot be a right. Neither is it a privilege, since it is freely accessible to anyone who can afford it, and is usually accessible even to those who can`t.

Health care is a collection of products and services. Some claim that it is somehow in a different class from other products and services because it is essential to life. However, the same can be said for food, clothing, shelter, and transportation, but we generally don`t call for the government to take over those industries. In fact, where the government has taken them over, as in the old Soviet Union, the result has always been shortages and deprivation such as that which resulted in the starvation of over 10 million Ukrainians. If Obamacare takes hold and you live in a Red state, you`ll be lucky to get band-aids and aspirin.
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Male 265
"And how dare they make us get insurance for health-care for human beings, its not like they make us insure our cars. Yeesh."

Many people in urban areas don`t need a car due to that socialist thing called public transportation. How dare they give people a cost efficient option!!!
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Male 678
@thatjimguy

He doesn`t seem to be talking that fast to me. But one reason could be that a lot of people tend to skip long videos. Another reason could be the fact that it says "summarized", so it should be brief.
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Male 210
Boo Socialism!!! We don`t need roads, schools, fire departments, or hospitals. God-damn hippies!!!

And how dare they make us get insurance for health-care for human beings, its not like they make us insure our cars. Yeesh.
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Male 469
Why do so many of these kind of videos think that talking really really fast makes it better?
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Male 265
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life..."

Life... hmm... life...
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Male 1,449
Here is a thought, if we took better care of ourselves the cost of healthcare would drop. It`s called "being responsible".
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Male 6,227

Go, KitFox, Go!

There may be hope for this country after all. Apparently, despite a perpetual tsunami of right-wing think tank propaganda, the younger generation recognizes a FUBAR system in need of reform when they see it.
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Male 3,445
This video is like 3 years old...

Are you posting it again because the Supreme Court may strike down the mandate and we`ll have this fight all over again? Maybe we`ll actually get a public option next time.
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Male 15,271
You guys are so funny. So may dying because of others` greed.
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Male 15,832
[quote]I`m still amazed that you guys haven`t got this sorted out. Here, our health care is funded by the government. I can walk into my doctor`s office, be seen, walk out and never see a bill.[/quote]
Right, and you only had to wait, what, 8 weeks to get in? If the Canadian system is so great, then answer these two questions:

1) Why do you see so many Canadian license plates in the parking logs of American hospitals and clinics near the Canadian border?

2)If we adopt a Canadian-style socialist health care system, where will those Canadians go to keep from dying on a waiting list?
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Male 40,772
@patchouly: I`m waiting 4-6 MONTHS to get some treatment, at this very moment. Yeah, our system is great!

So why do thousands of Canadians travel south for treatments & surgery? Because they don`t want to DIE waiting to see the [email protected] If the USA`s care was so bad, they would visit US! Never happens though.
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Male 40,772
[quote]What in the heck happened to my post?![/quote]

Lolz! @SmagBoy! It`s one of those "mysterious IAB things..."
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Female 595
People get off-topic when they ask whether healthcare is a privilege or a right. They`re basically just arguing about semantics. The point is that a well-run society would presumably want all of their citizens to have access to good healthcare. To people living outside the US (because I feel that I`d be preaching to an American choir), my theory is that the "powers that be" do not want people to have this access because of greed and control. The "powers that be" are Big Agriculture and Big Pharma. Keeping us sick and addicted to sugary/carby junk food makes us easier to control and turns profit for BigAg, and providing poor healthcare makes people have to keep going back for treatment which funds BigPharma. These two "Big Brothers" are the ones that own the government, and make sure laws and procedures favor them, not the general public. It`s that simple.
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Male 4,745
I`m still amazed that you guys haven`t got this sorted out. Here, our health care is funded by the government. I can walk into my doctor`s office, be seen, walk out and never see a bill. I can go to the hospital and be treated, go home and never see a bill. Everything from stitches to open heart surgery, all fully covered. I can`t imagine what it must be like to have to pay for your health care. A scary thing.
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Female 836
Well said, Gerry.
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Male 17,511
The public option is a massive government power grab. The government already has too much power over our healthcare system. There will be no negotiated pricing, there will be rationing and older people won`t get the care they need. The `Death Panels` are in the bill, they are the non-nice individuals that will tell you that granny can`t have a heart valve replaced because she`s 70+ years old and should just go home and die instead.

What is needed is tort reform, get the damn money grubbing lawyers out of the system and allow people to set up health savings accounts for themselves and you`ll see costs and wait times go down.
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Male 226
I have a question. Do the health care expenditure numbers include elective procedures? Also, does it include `retirement` home costs? Psychiatric Hospitals? At home nursing?

The talk about eliminating "unnecessary procedures" kind of pushes me to thinking that elective procedures are included.

Also, you have to consider people who die on waiting lists, or give up on procedures all together due to them. If they die/give up before the procedure, they`re not going to spend the money. It`s probably not a huge difference, but it`s a difference.
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Male 4,431
What in the heck happened to my post?!

I just tried to provide a source.
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Male 4,431
5Cats, lawyers and lawsuits aren`t the problem--well, not to omuch. In states that control damages (TX and CA, for example), even though insurance costs are less, they didn`t decrease nearly as much as the reduced awards. And doctors in those states still order way too many tests and unnecessary procedures to "protect themselves." I guess I can understand why. Even though most docs are sued in their careers, only about 1/3 of all doctors actually deserve it. If malpractice insurance would charge doctors like they charge drivers, based on risk (pay out), about 2/3 of doctors would have to pay very little as they`re almost never successfully sued. Yet, insurance companies will NEVER do this. Again, it`s capitalism. Too, if lawmakers would require costs to be paid for frivolous malpractice suits...

Male 4,431
We spend about 25-30% of all healthcare dollars on the last year of life. And most (nearly 80%) of that is in the last month! And a lot of it is painful care that does almost no good and is paid for almost entirely by the government.

If we consider who makes all of the rules for healthcare, who determines almost all of the rules (the government, and they do so by being such a huge customer, almost 2 of every 3 healthcare dollrs spent in the country), the fact that we allow any free market capitalism in the system is pure nuts. We need to get things under control and fix the HUGE
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Male 43
Too bad America did`t elect an IAB member, you guys seem to have the answers.
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Male 6,227
@Gerry: Love that infograph of yours. Should be required reading for every voter.
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Male 8,560
Gerry1of1-"The single most expensive thing in U.S. healthcare is not medical procedures or drugs. It`s administration."

And you SERIOUSLY believe that the Government can do a BETTER job a administrating?

Ever visited the DMV?

The Government is nothing BUT an administration, who`s primary job is to create MORE administration.

Don`t believe me? Obama stated yesterday that THE PROBLEM with the economy was....***wait for it****....NOT ENOUGH GOVERNMENT JOBS!!!.
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Male 40,772
vv @Gerry1 I TOTALLY agree with you! Administration costs have doubled or tripled since the 60`s (as a ratio of spending) here in Canada! ALL the increase in healthcare costs can be pegged to increased administration costs.!

And WHAT does the government do best of all? Increases... ADMINISTRATION COSTS!!!

@Cajun: Obama campaigned on that: "Unneccessary tonsilectomies" he said! LMAO! Yeah THAT is the cause of increased healthcare!

The #2 Cause: LAWYERS! Lawsuits cost insurance companies money, which gets passed on to their customers. Doctors in this case. Who then MUST pass on the costs to the customers, sick folks.

FIX the lawyer problem and THEN fix the insurance company problem and THAT WILL actually reduce healthcare costs.

Obama is doing the OPPOSITE!

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Male 10,855
[quote]"Cut down on proceedures" is NOT a death panel?[/quote]

Cut down on USELESS procedures, which risks lives and gives insurance revenue. Unfortunately, how to do so would be difficult to elaborate on.
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Male 10,855
If this video was truely unbiased they wouldn`t fail to mention how egregiously overregulated HEALTHCARE is. That is why healthcare and health insurance is ridiculously overpriced.
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Male 226
"Call it Socialism if you want, it just proves you have no concept of the meaning of the word."

`An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise`

You`re right, a government run system in lieu of a private sector run system isn`t socialism. Oh wait a second, that`s exactly what it is.
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Male 6,737
Health care should be available to everyone.

Call it Socialism if you want, it just proves you have no concept of the meaning of the word.
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Male 3,894
Capitalism works on the concept that those who sell you a product try to make the most profit possible. In order to make profit, they charge you as much as they can get away with for the cheapest service or product they can get away with providing.

The question is, do we want to apply these principles to health care? Do we want the people taking care of us when we`re sick to be trying to weasel out of taking care of us while still getting away with our cash? Is that the mindset we want our care providers to have?

Sounds like I`m digging for a specific answer there, and I`ll admit that I am, to a degree. If you can explain why selfish motivation is good in an altruistic business, you`re welcome to do so. I`ll listen, and you might even change my mind.
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Male 39,955

The single most expensive thing in U.S. healthcare is not medical procedures or drugs. It`s administration. Paperwork overhead and double billing. When my hubby had cancer, we had soooooo many "office visits" that were needless and pointless but we had to jump through the hoops so they could bill the insurance company and he could get treatment.

Here`s an infograph. FancyLad, I`d love it if you made this a seperate post.

HEALTH CARE EXPENSES
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Male 631
I understand that you `think` life = health care, but that is still stretching the definition quite a bit. Argue for it to be redefined if you will, but be honest in your intentions.

Defining what a `right` is is tricky and important. Inalienable rights are rights that people have that the government can`t (ie shouldn`t) take away. The government does not `give` rights. Health care is something that must be given.

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Male 719
Why did he decide to record a political rant in a club?
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Male 657
I wanted to see the piggy.
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Male 40,772
1:35 Um, Private Companies are the ones who will RUN Obamacare, the Law forces individual citizens to buy THEIR products or be fined!
What this guy says is utterly false!

Non-Partisan? LOLZ! This guy`s socialist dream world is entirely, 100% partisan.

"Cut down on proceedures" is NOT a death panel? He completely disproves his own rhetoric!

2:00 this guy lives in a socialist alternate-reality if he truely believes THIS crapola! lolz!
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Male 612
health care should be about as much of a right as having a cell phone.
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Male 39,955

There will not be any significant change in the near future for 2 reasons.

1: MONEY: Health Care is made up of FOR PROFIT Corporations that spent billions on politicians to get it set up this way an they don`t want any changes. Why do you think George Bush banned US citizens going to Canada for drugs at half the cost?
&
B: STUPIDITY: People are stupid. No one wants to sacrifice for it. We want good medical care but no one wants to take it out of THEIR paycheck. The Gov`ment aught to do somthin`! they cry without stopping to think where the gov`ment gets it`s money from.

In summary, Corporations want their money and it`s not too hard to fool stupid people into not demanding it of their governement.
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Male 181
"...and if it is a right, like life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness..."

life=health care. "Like" doesn`t enter into it. Unless you are in the tiny bracket of people who are born in the woods and die immediately thereafter, you will receive health care during your tenure as a U.S. citizen.
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Female 8,043
Link: America`s Health Care System = A Massive Pig [Rate Link] - Is health care a privilege or a right?
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