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Date: 04/12/12 01:15 PM

99 Responses to Zimmerman Appears In Court for First Time Today

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18499 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    Link: Zimmerman Appears In Court for First Time Today - Wearing a blue jumpsuit, Zimmerman stood quietly as the judge read instruction`s to his lawyer. Zimmerman did not speak.
  2. Profile photo of schecter5
    schecter5 Male 18-29
    406 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Well, lets see if he gets arrested.

    If he`s convicted, he`ll be killed in jail.
    If he isn`t convicted, he`ll be killed as a "racial justice/revenge" killing.

    I`m tired of this poo. People die everyday. I`m pretty sure a lot of black people have killed someone of other races but its never a big deal. Get over it.
  3. Profile photo of schecter5
    schecter5 Male 18-29
    406 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    By arrested, I meant convicted. Typo, kinda taking notes in class at the same time. Hooray multi tasking!
  4. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    and the point of this thread/post was?

    He turned himself in to face the music and you expect more?
  5. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    We can`t see it in this video, but his shirt? It`s tucked in! Right @madest?

    Off to look for a longer video...
  6. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2346 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    am i the only one hoping he gets cleared of all charges?
  7. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    your points are wrong too schecter. If theres a genuine threat to his life, he will be in solitary or on a wing for vunerable prisoners.

    As for the second, if that happens, then the other party would go down for murder 1 or get the death penalty.

    The sad thing is all the conjecture over something that nobody has any idea over and the lawyers purely see it as a money making exercise.
  8. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1843 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    Why no arraignment until the end of May? Seems awfully s-l-o-w.
  9. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    I thought he jumped and tried to escape... well i will just wait to see the outcome!
  10. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:45 pm
    "I thought he jumped and tried to escape"

    No he laid low until he was charged, then turned himself in the moment he was.

    His lawyer has also stated he will not plead down the charges.

    This is gonna be FUN!
  11. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    "am i the only one hoping he gets cleared of all charges?"

    No. The bullpoo riots that would result will make for great television.
  12. Profile photo of CaneTrain
    CaneTrain Male 30-39
    34 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    Zimmerman did speak.
  13. Profile photo of Hellsh
    Hellsh Male 30-39
    86 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 1:54 pm
    @skypirate Nope!
  14. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:00 pm
    @CaneTrain Not anymore. He got his tongue cut out.
  15. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm
    @Fatninja01 Is that your cat in the picture?
  16. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:12 pm
    Last time I checked schecter, black-on-white violence exceeds that of the reverse by at least 30 percent. And this guy`s not even white! Shows you how intellectually unscrupulous our detractors can be. Conversely, if he were elected president he`d probably be touted as the "First Hispanic American," etc. The deck is stacked against us, and the race card is wild.
  17. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:31 pm
    I don`t know whether he`s innocent or guilty...but holy sh*t, that guy must be terrified. There is a sizable portion of this country screaming for his blood, and a bounty on his head.
  18. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    I just get nervous when people want to see a man hang so badly. It usually clouds their judgment.
  19. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:51 pm
    "Conversely, if he were elected president he`d probably be touted as the "First Hispanic American," etc."

    I am very confident in saying that our President is black. I say this with such confidence because there are many racists in America who would have completely flipped out years back if he had tried to marry their daughter. He is very black in their eyes. The same people are still flipping out that the leader of their country is black. I`m talking crazy racists here not your average racist. There is a bit of a double standard when you have a mixed hispanic though. Not sure if it because they are originally from Europe or what. But if a mixed hispanic became President they would be the first Hispanic President. It would be a great accomplishment.
  20. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    I just get nervous when people want to see a man hang so badly. It usually clouds their judgment.
    It would be far preferable if court proceedings were held in private, with no media speculation at all during the pre-trial or the trial itself. In the UK, that`s generally what happens: only the bare details of an alleged offence are reported in the press before the outcome. All evidence, developments and proceedings are only reported after the jury has come to its verdict.
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:00 pm
    The commentators on `In Session` said he looked thinner and commented on his crooked nose. All were really puzzled at the elevated 2nd degree murder charge.
  22. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    @markust123 Sure, that`s true and all, but those racists aren`t really relevant anymore. The few that are still around don`t have any influence on anybody.
  23. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36192 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    As prison garb goes, it`s a nicer shade than many other institutions offer.
  24. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm
    "Sure, that`s true and all, but those racists aren`t really relevant anymore. The few that are still around don`t have any influence on anybody."

    I wish that was true. But sadly our sensationalist media gives the racists and bigots a national platform to stand on. Take that bigot preacher who wanted to burn the Koran. He got plenty of publicity which in turn got a few of our boys overseas killed. He is a nut job that should have been ignored. But since the new media doesn`t really bother with the standards of journalism anymore they put him right on. Pretty soon we won`t be able to tell the difference between the news and Jerry Springer.

    Sorry, I`m completely off topic. I`ll shut up now.
  25. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:20 pm
    To bring my comment slightly back on topic and to show I am not being partisan. The media gave the racist New Black Panthers all the news time they wanted. It`s almost as if the media wants a race war. Hmmmm.
  26. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 3:40 pm
    Every so often I find myself feeling a little sorry for him, then I remember it`s because of him that a teenager lost his life. I hope he does some time, but I really don`t see how they can charge him with 2nd degree murder unless there`s something huge we`re all missing from the story. I`m afraid history will repeat itself and they`re overcharging him and he`ll end up going free as a result (which isn`t necessarily good for him, I think spending some years in jail and then being released might be better because some of the anger at him will die out before he`s released, just speculation though).
  27. Profile photo of redfeldblood
    redfeldblood Male 13-17
    16 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm
    that dud is not white you mother draters
  28. Profile photo of redfeldblood
    redfeldblood Male 13-17
    16 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm
    that dud is not white you mother f!@#%^
  29. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 6:58 pm
    auburnjunky: "No. The bullpoo riots that would result will make for great television."

    Not really. Everytime I see college students or hockey fans rioting after a game, I feel bad for the people whose property is damaged. Not everyone likes to see mayhem. Maybe you should take up a hobby.
  30. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 7:03 pm
    "that dud is not white you mother f!@#%^"

    I`m pretty sure he has some Hispanic in him. What`s your point?
  31. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 7:35 pm
    ~In an attempt to change the subject, Squrlz rides through the middle of the thread on a unicycle~
  32. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 7:43 pm
    Squrlz, in case you check back here xD I got my test result that you asked about :P
    106% don`t ask me how that happened O.O
  33. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm
    Why are his eyes going insane every third blink?
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:31 pm
    @swoop: Possibly because it was dark(er) in the holding area and when he came into the brightly lit court it hurt his eyes?
    Or stress, that`ll do it too.
    To keep from crying? I`d bawl my eyes out if I were in his situation.

    @LillianDulci: Congradulations! We know where that extra 6% came from -wink wink-
    I joke! Honest I do!

    Anyhow, could this be the next "trial of the century"? Or will it go like the Duke Lacross Team did...
  35. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    @Lillian: That`s AMAZING! Wow, what an amazing surprise! Yeah, I`d say you did just a *little* better than the previous test. Congratulations! =^.^=
  36. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:55 pm
    @LillianDulci Once again, you are putting emotion over reason. It MIGHT be because of him that Treyvon lost his life, but it also MIGHT be Trayvon`s fault as well. We don`t know yet, so you shouldn`t be so quick to judge.
  37. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:56 pm
    @ivran
    Oh, and gratz. I wish my professors even gave out 100s....
  38. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:56 pm
    Not @ivran, lol
  39. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 9:29 pm



    l
    v
    "Black" President = the Hero (even when that president is the same degree "Black" that our Villain is white!)

    You do the math.
  40. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 9:29 pm
    Here`s the flow-chart according to all of our most vocal minority advocates, markust123:

    Hispanic classification comes from Rape of the native woman by the White Devil

    l
    v
    White Devil = the Villain

    "Black" president comes from the same selective classification of an individual based on partial recognition of their ethnic background that has precipitated T-shirts like this: Pussy-ass Cracker

    Does this guy look like a "cracker" to you?



    I thought not.

    l
    v
    "White" Devil = the Villain (even when our “Villain” isn`t White!)
  41. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 9:40 pm
    You kind of lost me Suicism. But your picture of the white Obama cracked me up.
  42. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 9:41 pm
    vv That`s brilliant @Suicism!
    What`s next in the liberal `playbook`? Oh yeah, Attacking the `white police`. I sure hope the Judge is a coloured person... for his/her own safety!
  43. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:51 pm
    5Cats & Squrlz & ivran thanks ^-^ My prof gave us bonus questions since we did so poorly on the first test, rofl.

    "It MIGHT be because of him that Treyvon lost his life"
    Nah, it`s a 100% undeniable fact that Trayvon is dead because of Zimmerman. He is, after all, the one who pulled the trigger. Whether you believe that it was self defense is irrelevant.
  44. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 11:07 pm
    @LillianDulci
    Yes, it`s an undeniable fact that Zimmerman is partly responsible. However, if it is true that Trayvon started the claimed altercation, then he is also partially responsible for his own death, as he could have just walked away/ran away.
    It`s kind of like saying it`s my fault if I run over a guy because he jumped in front of my car. Sure, I`m the one who caused his death, but it`s still his fault.
  45. Profile photo of shrutikamore
    shrutikamore Female 18-29
    27 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 11:21 pm
    Please Dont Miss it..!!
  46. Profile photo of shrutikamore
    shrutikamore Female 18-29
    27 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 11:30 pm
    Click Here for Kisses ..!
  47. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    ivran, you`re implying that it was an accident that Zimmerman shot Trayvon or that Trayvon seeked out Zimmerman. Zimmerman did in fact follow Trayvon despite calling the police and supposedly viewing Trayvon as a threat. Trayvon did in fact run away at least at first (and was followed). But anyway, whether or not Trayvon had anything to do with his own death, Zimmerman`s still the one who caused it, and Zimmerman still was able to avoid the situation and eventual death 100%. And you and others are still continuing to ignore that Trayvon probably felt threatened by Zimmerman (which would be why he ran away at first) and was most likely acting in self defense after being followed, whether or not he initiated the physical conflict (which his girlfriend said seemed like Zimmerman initiated).
  48. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:08 am
    @LillianDulci Going back to my car analogy: I was driving to get McDonalds because I was hungry. If I had chosen to go to Burger King instead, I wouldn`t have ran that suicidal bloke over. It`s possible(not necessarily true) that Zimmerman had no intention of causing harm to anyone. You blame him with the privilege of hindsight. He may have legitimately been doing what he thought was right. He may have been just trying to protect the neighborhood(and who knows? Maybe T was snooping around places he shouldn`t have been). I didn`t have any attention of causing harm when I drove to McDonald`s instead of Burger King. Also, if Z truly was in a life-threatening situation, he most likely had adrenaline rushing through him. Whipping out the gun is a perfectly natural reaction in that kind of situation. All I`m saying is that without knowing all the facts, you shouldn`t put so much blame on a man who is still legally innocent.
  49. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:38 am
    P.S. - you got it 5cats.
  50. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:38 am
    Well markust123, I`m sorry that I lost you somehow (and I`m glad you appreciated the Caucasian mock-up I found of Obama), but you pretty much said it here:

    "But if a mixed hispanic became President they would be the first Hispanic President. It would be a great accomplishment."

    Right - but if that same presidential candidate were to be accused (or not, for a span of 7 weeks) of 2nd degree murder, then suddenly they become white! Isn`t that amazing?
  51. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:11 am
    I get the point Suicism but you lost me with the blatant race baiting in your delivery. Although Obama`s picture still is funny.
  52. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:06 am
    lolololololololol people still think that Z had the right to kill T...dumb opinion is dumb...
  53. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:22 am
    He may have legitimately been doing what he thought was right.
    Yeah, well, if good intentions, tears, and apologies were all it took to solve the problems of the world...

    Fact is, him doing what he "thought was right" by following someone he (wrongly) assumed was committing or planning to commit a crime, resulted in the death of a teenager who had every right to be there same as he did.

    I`m pretty sure the end result matters more than the intentions in a case like this.
  54. Profile photo of diggierolls
    diggierolls Male 18-29
    151 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:36 am
    the path to hell is paved with good intentions
  55. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:58 am
    I would love if "race" stopped being part of this thing. My thoughts don`t change whether Zimmerman is white, hispanic, black, Asian, etc. Same for Trayvon... so I don`t see how any of that is relevant.

    I was thinking, were there any reports on whether Trayvon had any scrapes or bruises and where the bullet wound was? If the bullet went through his head, Murder 2 could work here. Also, if T doesn`t show any bruises or bleeding, it could mean T threw the first punch (although I think the Stand Your Ground thing would apply here considering he had already tried (literally) running away, and was now only a yards from home). At the same time, no bruises on T could be damning for Zimmerman, meaning that Z made no attempt to physically stop the fight before pulling his gun, which might also show "intent to kill" required for Murder 2. Iunno.
  56. Profile photo of sdcxsdc
    sdcxsdc Male 18-29
    15 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:34 am
    he did nothing wrong this is bullpoo
  57. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:36 am
    I was thinking, were there any reports on whether Trayvon had any scrapes or bruises and where the bullet wound was?
    The shot was in the chest.

    That`s the only thing they`ve released regarding Martin`s condition. Considering how quick the police and prosecutor were to initially write it off as simple self-defense, I question whether they even bothered to do a proper examination of his body. We`ll have to see what happens there in court.

    According to the mortician who prepped him for his funeral, though, he apparently didn`t have bruises or anything on his knuckles, considering they would have covered them up if he had.
  58. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:58 am
    @Jonix No, if T had bruises then it`s bad for Z no matter what. T having bruises would mean that Z might have had away to survive the fight, possibly making his situation not `life threatening`.
  59. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    @Altaru
    "I`m pretty sure the end result matters more than the intentions in a case like this."
    That`s entirely wrong. This is a murder case. Intentions DO matter because they are what defines murder. Since this is only murder 2, they only have to prove that he intended to kill or seriously harm him before the fight started(assuming the situation was life threatening).

    Also, you say T was perfectly in the right by being there, but Zimmerman was perfectly in the right by following him as well, as long as he wasn`t threatening him or anything, so that point is moot. If T was feeling threatened then he could have called the police, just as Zimmerman could have obeyed the dispatch. He did have a phone.

    I`m not supporting Zimmerman getting of completely clear until all the evidence is revealed, but murder is a serious accusation to make, and to be honest, people like Lillian aren`t really justified in damming Zimmerman just yet. We simply DONT KNOW much ab
  60. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm
    about what happened, and, until both sides make their case in a court of law, we should hold our judgements. It`s really the reasonable and mature thing to do. Sure, getting all heated up and emotional and blaming one side or the other is fun and all, but, even when done recreationally, it`s not really a healthy thing to do. You can`t really live your life being hotheaded over everything. It makes the things you should legitimately be passionate about seem less important.
  61. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm
    "people like Lillian aren`t really justified in damming Zimmerman just yet"

    Either you stopped reading my original post after the first line, or you`ve forgotten what I said.
  62. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:17 pm
    @LillianDulci I read your whole comment, and I mostly disagree. Firstly, I could have sworn it was Treyvon`s girlfriend that made it out to seem as though it were the other way around(Not that it matters, being on the phone doesn`t count as a reliable witness). Secondly, by your logic, you could essentially blame anything on anyone. Sure, Zimmerman could have prevented the death 100%, but Treyvon himself could have prevented it 100%. Hell, you could argue that T-Thugz`s girlfriend could have prevented it 100%. The police could have driven faster and prevented it 100%.

    Also, we do not KNOW that Treyvon `ran away` at first. We have been lead to believe that there was some sort of pursuit, but that does not necessarily imply running. Like I said before, we do not KNOW what happened. You can`t place blame on people based on hindsight alone. That`s not how the law works, and that`s not how we are supposed to live our lives. If Zimmerman were doing something illegal again.
  63. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    "Sure, Zimmerman could have prevented the death 100%, but Treyvon himself could have prevented it 100%. (and etc)"

    Um no. You`re completely missing the point. Zimmerman easily could have done what you`re supposed to do as a neighborhood watch and stayed in his car. Trayvon was unarmed, there would be no way for him to have attacked Zimmerman from inside the car. Zimmerman also could have not followed Trayvon. We don`t know what happened 100% after that. Did Zimmerman approach Trayvon? Or did he shout at him from afar and Trayvon approached him? We don`t really know. We know for sure Trayvon could have prevented his death by... not going out for skittles and iced tea. But that`s the only aspect of the story we know 100% was in Trayvon`s control. But there are many things Zimmerman could have and should have done that would have prevented it, without doing any speculation.
  64. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:32 pm
    Saying that Zimmerman could have stayed in his car or not followed Trayvon are not unreasonable to expect. Nor is it a case of hindsight is clearer. Staying in your car is expected of neighborhood watch people, and he was told by the dispatch to not follow (he`s not legally obliged to follow that advice, but if he had, Trayvon wouldn`t be dead). As for the other things, how could his girlfriend have prevented it? She couldn`t have. The police arriving sooner? Not really possible or reasonable to expect. The only thing we know for sure is there were multiple instances that Zimmerman did something wrong and if he hadn`t done that, Trayvon wouldn`t be dead, whether or not Trayvon eventually instigated physical contact or not. (his girlfriend indicated that it seemed like Trayvon was pushed, not the other way around)
  65. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    "we do not KNOW that Treyvon `ran away` at first."

    Zimmerman SAID Trayvon was running. His girlfriend said he was running. When Zimmerman was running after Trayvon, it sounded like running based on the wind. So YES, we do know that he ran away. He ended up only a few feet from the entrance to his house by the time he was killed.
  66. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:47 pm
    @LillianDulci
    I must have missed the running part. I would appreciate it if you would link a source(I`m not doubting you, I just haven`t seen any evidence. Also, we don`t know for sure that Treyvon wasn`t doing something he wasn`t supposed to, there was just no evidence of it on T`s dead body. Normally, I wouldn`t even discuss the possibility of the supposed victim`s guilt, but since you are wanting to argue from a moral perspective(Which I`ll get to later why this isn`t a good idea) rather than a legal one, it has to be brought up. Running IS a little suspicious, don`t ya think? For all we know, Z could have pulled up in his car while T was snooping around someone else`s house, and T could have started off running. That, in my opinion, would warrant being chased after(which, until physical violence or vocal threat is initiated, is perfectly legal).

    Now, the problem with your arguing this on a moral basis is that morality is all relative. People don`t have the same views o
  67. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    which is one of the beautiful things about humanity. This is one of the things our legal system is supposed to be based on. That`s why we have written laws and constitutions to guide us, and not emotions or invented morals. Our laws exist to protect our constitutional rights. From a legal perspective, what you described Zimmerman doing in your comment(Which still might not be fact), is perfectly legal. From your viewpoint of morality, it might be wrong, but from Z`s view of morality, it might not be. Therefore, it`s not really fair for you to force your morality on everyone else if he was legally doing nothing wrong and legally gets off the hook(assuming the justice system works correctly and he doesn`t get unjustly let off or sentenced due to the media`s intervention). How is you forcing your morality into this case any different than religious zealots forcing their beliefs(which is also a form of invented morality)into peoples?(ex homosexuals, people who get abortions, etc.)
  68. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    ivran, listen to Zimmerman`s 911 call again.

    "don`t know for sure that Treyvon wasn`t doing something he wasn`t supposed to"
    He was unarmed, just got some iced tea and skittles, and was near his home when he died. There`s nothing to indicate that he WAS doing something he wasn`t supposed to be doing, so there`s no point in discussing it.

    "Running IS a little suspicious, don`t ya think?"
    No. I`d be creeped out by a strange guy I don`t know following me. His girlfriend indicated that he noticed Zimmerman (and she advised him to put up his hoody).

    "That, in my opinion, would warrant being chased after(which, until physical violence or vocal threat is initiated, is perfectly legal). "
    If Zimmerman felt threatened by Trayvon, that`d probably be the dumbest thing to do. Zimmerman was not a police officer and had no business chasing after someone when he knew the police was on their way.
  69. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    "From a legal perspective, what you described Zimmerman doing in your comment(Which still might not be fact), is perfectly legal."

    You`re obviously missing my point. I`m not saying doing stupid things that resulted in killing someone is illegal. I`m saying that I can`t really feel bad for Zimmerman when it could have been easily prevented, no matter who initiated physical contact. No matter if it was Trayvon, or if Zimmerman initiated it but Trayvon got the better of him, really no matter the reason it ended like it did, Zimmerman is the only one who we know FOR SURE could have prevented the death. I`m not saying it`s ILLEGAL to act stupid, just that it makes me unable to really feel sorry for him because it`s because of HIM that Trayvon died.
  70. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    Also, aren`t republicans the ones who typically go on and on about personal responsibility? Why can`t they apply that to Zimmerman as well?
  71. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:10 pm
    @LillianDulci
    Firstly, you are forming a story based on either information that is unreliable or that doesn`t even exist. Anything that the girlfriend said about the situations shouldn`t be used in this specific argument, since, last I checked, you were trying to convince me that you had a legitimate reason to condemn this man as deserving punishment(not necessarily legal) for his actions knowing what we know right now.

    In the initial call, Zimmerman said he was `acting` suspicious, implying that he was doing something that may have warranted suspicion. Whether Zimmerman`s information is accurate is unknown, but since all I`m doing is to convince you that you don`t have enough information to warrant a personal and moral condemnation of Zimmerman, I don`t need it to be a confirmed piece of information. All I need is a possibility. For all you know, he could have been in someone else`s yard. The skittles and tea part is a red-herring, and is irrelevant to the story. I`ve bou
  72. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:15 pm
    drinks many a time when I was preparing to do something that was legally questionable. I also often times will carry around a drink and snack in the pockets of my jacket. That doesn`t excuse me from being suspicious or doing something illegal. Anyways, back to the topic at hand - you also don`t know the way in which Zimmerman confronted Treyvon that prompted him to run. You`re forgetting that Treyvon is 17. As a little kid, running is perfectly reasonable. However, if ou are walking down the street, and a car pulls up next to you, running is not a normal response. The person could be seeking help(I`ve had it happen to me before.) Your reaction might be a little different because you are a woman, and, I don`t know if this is true or not, but I`ve heard that women tend to have more reason to fear situations like that.(possibly due to rape? I honestly don`t really know. I`m not a woman.) The story you provided IS a possibility, but it is not necessarily exactly what took place.
  73. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    @LillianDulci
    Also, you are missing my point. You are here publicly condemning him and saying things like "you don`t feel bad for him" when, by your standards, I could justify saying things like "I don`t feel bad for Treyvon."(Which isn`t true) However, if I said something like that, I`d get my ass flamed. I also don`t know what republicans have to do with this debate. Is that some attempt at an insult? If so, I`d like you to know that I am not, in fact, a republican, so I can`t really comment on their beliefs. As to the personal responsibility bit, I`d say that falls under the hood of morality, which isn`t necessarily related to the law.
  74. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    "you are forming a story based on either information that is unreliable or that doesn`t even exist."

    What story am I making up? It`s an undeniable fact that Trayvon ran, as uttered by Zimmerman`s own mouth.

    "I checked, you were trying to convince me that you had a legitimate reason to condemn this man as deserving punishment(not necessarily legal) for his actions knowing what we know right now. "

    I`m not trying to convince you of anything! Other than it`s quite clear that Zimmerman could have prevented the situation in many reasonable ways if he really felt threatened, based completely on the facts that we know are true.

    "if ou are walking down the street, and a car pulls up next to you, running is not a normal response. "
    Zimmerman didn`t simply pull up next to Trayvon. He had been following him and Trayvon noticed he was following him. It`s a perfectly reasonable reaction to be afraid and run when a strange person
  75. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    is following you at night.

    I`m not saying Trayvon`s innocent because he was carrying snacks. We have no proof that Trayvon was doing anything wrong, other than Zimmerman suspecting him of doing something wrong. We do know that he was only carrying around snacks, NO tools that could be used for a crime besides his own hands, and that he was headed home, which we know because he was killed within sight of the door to his dad`s house. Also, there`s no reason to speculate about him possibly doing something wrong because he was not in the process of doing something wrong when he was killed (besides possibly harming Zimmerman, which might have been self defense, and which wouldn`t have happened if Zimmerman hadn`t left his car or followed Trayvon).
  76. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    "You are here publicly condemning him and saying things like "you don`t feel bad for him" when, by your standards, I could justify saying things like "I don`t feel bad for Treyvon.""
    I`m publicly condemning someone who could have completely avoided a situation that resulted in him killing a teenager. If you want to flame Trayvon, go right ahead. Tons of people have already done that on this site.

    "Is that some attempt at an insult?"
    Not really. I said it because republicans are the main supporters of Zimmerman, but they always go on and on about public responsibility, and yet act like there was nothing Zimmerman could have done to avoid killing Trayvon, when there`s at least 2 very easy things he could have done to avoid the situation.
  77. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    @LillianDulci
    Then why only focus on Zimmerman avoiding it? Treyvon could have avoided it. T`s father could have avoided by being with him or joining him. Zimmerman may have not MEANT for this to happen. What he should or shouldn`t have done is not up for you to decide either. Also, Zimmerman never claimed to have felt threatened. He felt T might have been a threat to other people. We also don`t know that T was on his way home.

    Since you`re clearly not going to look at this objectively, I`m going to spin it in a different direction. Let`s take away Zimmerman`s gun from this story. If him shooting T was truly self defense, than Z would be the one dead right now. Then, the story is COMPLETELY opposite using your standards. In fact, T may have very well be convicted for murder. Would you still blame Z then? The only reason your arguing based on emotions is because you see Z as "some creepy guy"(Which he looks fairly normal if you ask me) and T as "a frightened
  78. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm
    child" We do not KNOW what happened after the 911 call. I`m not saying Zimmerman COULDNT have prevented it. I`m saying that that possibility isn`t a reason to blame him right now. T may have well been able to completely prevent it too. The way I see it right now, it is just a tragedy for both parties involved, until we hear otherwise.
  79. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    "I`m publicly condemning someone who could have completely avoided a situation that resulted in him killing a teenager."
    Once again, your are using your morals. This statement is not much different than radical Baptists condemning women getting abortions for being able to "completely avoid a situation that resulted in them killing an unborn child."
    The logic behind both is basically the same. You just spin your statement to make it sound more reasonable, but, realistically, it`s no different.
  80. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    However, if someone came on here and said something like that, I`m sure you would be the first to flame.
  81. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    Anyways, I`m done for a while. I`ll be back later(Although I might be a little intoxicate, which should make things more interesting :)
  82. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:25 pm
    Zimmerman didn`t simply pull up next to Trayvon. He had been following him and Trayvon noticed he was following him.
    @LillianDulci: Not quite correct. Z never followed in his car. Z was driving out of the area to buy groceries. T walked in through the gate. Z stopped the truck and phoned police non-emergency (essentially 911, a small detail). to report a suspicious person.
    T saw Z, `checked him out` and then ran off between some buildings.
    The GF said: T `lost` Z. She told him to run home but he said "I`m not running". She said T asked Z "Why are you following me" FIRST, then she heard Z ask "What are you doing here".
    Then the call was cut-off.
    Maps and links to follow.

    These are the FACTS @LillianDulci: while speculation is fine and all, it cannot counter the few known facts, ok?
  83. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:41 pm
    Map Of POSSIBLE Paths Not `proof` but a possible map of where the two were. Note that the car is parked, not used to follow.

    Interactive Map Very interesting! Click "Bird`s Eye View for best details!
  84. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    The Dad`s Walk here at IAB. Tracey recounts his version of that night`s events.

    The GirlFriend`s Report
  85. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm
    Not one of these items can say for certain WHO attacked WHO first.
    It does suggest that M is the one confronting Z, NOT the other way around. Not proof, but it`s all there is, currently.

    SO: to suggest that Z "must have" confronted M is... baseless. To suggest that Z attacked M is... fantasy.

    We simply have no idea at this time.
  86. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:32 pm
    Not gonna comment on most of this, but IF that picture you posted of the possible paths is true, then it shows that Zimmerman was blocking Trayvon`s ability to go home. The only option other option would have been for Trayvon to run around and try to go another way (where it would have been easy for Zimmerman to block him that way too) since he couldn`t go straight and go home, considering Zimmerman was there. Trayvon asking Zimmerman why he`s following him is reasonable, considering Trayvon was trying to lose Zimmerman and all of a sudden Zimmerman was in his direct path to go home.
  87. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:52 pm
    I read your post carefully, and yes, what you say is true. At first I thought you said something else, my mistake!

    My point remains: based on the evidence we have, who confronted whom? We just don`t know.

    Yes it is important, terribly so! But all we have is Z`s account (so far) and what he says is indeed backed up by witnesses and physical evidence.
    So far...

    I say yet again that it`s TERRIBLE that a person died in this situation. However killing a second person doesn`t help things at all! Crucifying Zimmerman is entirely political, racist and immoral.

    Until more evidence is known, that`s my personal conclusion. I know you disagree @LillianDulci, vocally! But emotions should not outweigh laws...
  88. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:34 pm
    @5Cats @Lillian
    You guys ready to have a drunken conversation? I sure am!
  89. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm
    @ivran: head to "chat" but idk if I`ll be there. I do try to NOT post while intoxicated...
  90. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:49 pm
    Intentions DO matter because they are what defines murder.
    Yeah... And that`s why the murder charge is bullsh­it...

    If they`d just stuck with manslaughter, there could have been a chance for actual justice.

    Instead, they`re propping up a show trial just to get it over and done with... There`s no way a murder charge is going to stick, even I don`t believe Z deliberately intended to kill someone that night.

    But without intent, there`s no murder, which means there`ll be no conviction (unless something REALLY big comes to light...), and no justice one way or another.
  91. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    Also, we don`t know for sure that Treyvon wasn`t doing something he wasn`t supposed to, there was just no evidence of it on T`s dead body.
    The autopsy report has not yet been released, so we don`t know anything about his body.
  92. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 12:08 am
    But all we have is Z`s account (so far) and what he says is indeed backed up by witnesses and physical evidence.
    The only part of Z`s story that`s backed up by what we know is that he was losing the fight when he shot.

    Can`t wait to see the autopsy report on M, though. Could provide quite a bit of insight.
  93. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:53 am
    @Altaru Well, if Z is guilty, he`s already gotten media justice. His life is basically ruined. The few comments he`s actually made since the event have basically just been stating that. I mean, honestly, a sentence is probably unnecessary at this point. The media and public have already sentenced him.
  94. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:54 am
    @Altaru I think Z`s account of what happened before the fight is somewhat backup by location of T`s body and T`s girlfriend`s testimony. It doesn`t completely confirm it, but it does support some parts of the story I believe.
  95. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 9:20 am
    @ivran
    If Z followed T unarmed and Z ended up dead, then yes, I would question T just as much as I do Z right now, EVEN THOUGH following T goes against Neighborhood Watch guidelines. As soon as he saw T take off running, he should have just called the police with the last location he saw T, and then continue on his way to go shopping. He would have fulfilled his duties, and the professionals would have taken over. Most likely, nobody would be dead right now. But you asked (Lillian, but I`ll answer anyway), if I would find T as guilty as Z if that were the case, and yes, I would.

    As for claiming that T "could have prevented his own death 100%"... that`s like telling a rape victim that she had it coming or was "asking for it." I`m a little offended by that. Yeah, she didn`t have to go to that party and get drunk while wearing a sexy miniskirt, but that in NO WAY excuses the rapist`s actions or make him somehow "less guilty."
  96. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 9:25 am
    Also, how can you even claim that morality is completely unrelated to law? How in the world do you think new laws are created or existing laws are modified? It`s all based on what the populous agrees to be "right" or "wrong." If morality and law were mutually exclusive, then abortion and gay marriage wouldn`t even be a debate. If you have any theories on how else laws come into existence, please let me know, because morality is the only way I can think of.
  97. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 9:32 am
    @Altaru
    I heard on my local news that even though they got Zimmerman for Murder 2, the jury still has the power to decide to find him guilty of manslaughter. I`m thinking now that the plan was to find him guilty of manslaughter. But if they can find enough evidence to prove it was Murder 2 they want to make sure the charge is still available since you can`t over-charge someone on trial, but you can go lower in severity.

    At least I think so... I`m not too familiar with our court system, to be honest.
  98. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    @Jonix Yes, laws are sometimes based on a popular morality. That doesn`t mean that all laws are based on individual morality. Also, the rape analogy is extremely weak, as, to make a point, I was arguing under the assumption that T initiated the fight. That means that what T did was not legal. Women who get raped don`t provoke it through illegal activity. Your analogy doesn`t work at all.
  99. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 3:49 pm
    It doesn`t work? The girl is drunk and initiated flirtation with the guy. Maybe she`s a prostitute high on cocaine which she purchased and chose to do. Neither prostitution nor cocaine are legal.. so that would make the rape okay? You say my analogy doesn`t work on your ASSUMPTION that Trayvon MAY have been doing something illegal. It`s not like he was gunned down while trying to break into someone`s house. He wasn`t caught vandalizing anyone`s property. I guess just *looking* suspicious should make him fair game to be chased and hunted down by a man who has no authority to do so? I don`t get it.

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