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Date: 04/12/12 04:49 PM

83 Responses to The Real War On Women

  1. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    Link: The Real War On Women - Hilary Rosen, DNC strategist, slams Ann Romney on Anderson Cooper`s show on CNN.
  2. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:55 pm
    How `liberals` really think! Revealed!

    I saw a video `spinning` her statement in a disgusting effort to make it sound true. Sickening.

    The "War on Women" carried out by Obama`s White House!
  3. Profile photo of DingDingDong
    DingDingDong Male 30-39
    1511 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    She based that from his wife never having a job and that he listens to what she is concerned with? I don`t see the connection. Not that I like Romney, but this is dumb.
  4. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 4:59 pm
    Queue the false outrage on IAB. I haven`t read one story where a Democrat agreed with this. Everyone was saying she was wrong and needs to apologize. It was a poor choice of words. Her point would have been valid if she didn`t throw in the "never worked" thing. How is a woman who is insanely rich going to understand the common woman`s problems? This is one of the main reasons why Republicans did not want John Kerry elected, because he was so rich he could not relate to the common man or their problems.
  5. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    blah blah women`s issues blah blah
  6. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 6:10 pm
    Meanwhile, our system is set up so that only the wealthy and well connected have the slightest chance of being taken seriously as a presidential candidate. We are not the country we think we are. We are a plutocracy.
  7. Profile photo of Toomuchcoffe
    Toomuchcoffe Male 30-39
    43 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 6:17 pm
    When did we allow women to speak their opinion on TV? I hope Romney fixes that...
  8. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 7:50 pm
    @jtrebowski

    Agreed. It`s a bullpoo system.
  9. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:02 pm
    "he was so rich he could not relate to the common man or their problems"
    So it goes.
    That is politics for you.
  10. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm
    So according to democrats any woman that raises 5 kids and helps raise 16 grandkids doesn`t work ?

    Total fail there Ms.Rosen.
  11. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    She stayed at home in the kitchen and cooked for him & did his laundry ... and based on the plethora of children she put out for him on demand....

    YOU GO MITT ROMNEY!
  12. Profile photo of Roland
    Roland Male 30-39
    288 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:45 pm
    Her point is valid. I don`t think the wife of a millionaire would know understand what kinds of economic concerns most other women have.
  13. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:46 pm
    @crakrjak: The hard part isn`t raising the kids. It`s supervising the help.
  14. Profile photo of ivran
    ivran Male 18-29
    599 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 8:51 pm
    @Roland I don`t think she would either. That`s the funny thing about it all. They`re all just a bunch of spoiled-ass rich people.
  15. Profile photo of carmanut
    carmanut Male 18-29
    76 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 9:30 pm
    She`s a real stay-at-home mom alright. Just like all the other stay-at-home moms in America. What with the three houses and five maids.Just like the average Stay-at-home mom.
  16. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:19 pm
    Reps can`t counter with their actual record of course, opposition to Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, opposition to birth control and the great 2012 crackdown on Choice in the states. So solution = finding some inane comment by random pundit and manufacture rage around it to throw the ladyfolk off the scent:




  17. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:20 pm
    A Democrat bigot? Wow! Who would have seen that coming?
  18. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:29 pm
    Of course, I *do* remember when Reps first discovered sexism in 2008, it usually came up in reference to Sarah...Sarah...oh what`s her name again?

    And then promptly forgot about it after Nov. of that year.
  19. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:44 pm
    right o
  20. Profile photo of shrutikamore
    shrutikamore Female 18-29
    27 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 10:52 pm
    Have u seen like this one! ...
  21. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    April 12, 2012 at 11:01 pm
    Ha. Rosen isn`t some "random pundit;" she`s into this administration up to her eyebrows.

    Rosen visited the White House 35 times.

    Compare that to current Cabinet members; Energy Secretary Stephen Chu at 16 times. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, 12 times. Rosen attended White House meetings in March advising on the Obamacare debate.

    "Random pundit" my ass.

    Even better - she`s a Managing Director at SKDKnickerbocker, the PR firm heavily employed by the DNC and Obama`s campaign...and the PR firm for poor oppressed (and math-challenged) Feminist poster girl, Sandra Fluke.
  22. Profile photo of tatripp
    tatripp Male 18-29
    1196 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:00 am
    This is the video that everyone is getting mad at?
  23. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:09 am
    Republicans: Revoke equal pay act.
    Democrats: State Romney`s wife hasn`t worked. Which she hasn`t.

    This is a desperate attempt by the right to accuse the left of what the right is guilty of, in the hopes that in the ensuing volume, people won`t notice.

    Bill Maher: Accused of being anti-woman bigot by Ann Coulter.
    Ann Coulter: Says women shouldn`t vote.

    Republicans: Raped women should be forced to undergo transvaginal ultrasounds, for no medical purpose.

    Yes... the real war on women is this woman, and not at all a trumped up scandal to appeal to housewives in an election year.
  24. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:18 am
    Also: Quick note: Minor detail: Small point.

    Isn`t everything you`ve ever credited Romney with, the fact that he has "Private Sector experience", and that`s what makes his knowledge on the economy valuable?

    Bottom line: If a Republican has the word "Real" in a sentence, they`re making it up.

    Like when they talk about "Real" Americans. "Real" work experience. "Real" war on women. "Real" unemployment. "Real" education. "Real" science. "Real" news.

    Universally it means "I couldn`t get away with just saying the word".
  25. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:29 am
    the information is correct.Suck it right wingnuts.
  26. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 3:33 am
    Baal: You live in a country that doesn`t have true Women`s Rights. Women get imprisoned for reporting being raped. A woman`s testimony is widely regarded to be inferior to a man`s. Unmarried couples cannot share a `closed place` together and no muslim can drink alcohol. Your country still lives under Sharia Law however `relaxed` it may seem in comparison to nations in your region.

    So you aren`t going to `get away` with accusing republicans as being anti-women, living in a country that is as anti-women as yours.
  27. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 4:47 am
    "You live in a country that doesn`t have true Women`s Rights... So you aren`t going to `get away` with accusing republicans as being anti-women, living in a country that is as anti-women as yours."

    I`m too tired to find a face palm picture but come on.
  28. Profile photo of DeanoBoz
    DeanoBoz Male 40-49
    195 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 4:50 am
    FINALLY, someone of influence in the party has said, "Get rid of the term `War on Women`."
  29. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 4:52 am
    The thing about women in general is they do not easily let things go. I`m not saying it can`t be done but I really doubt they will be swayed back in masses with non-stories like this. They are smarter than that. Action is the only thing that will really work and the Dems have the upper hand there. They have a consistent record of voting for women`s rights.
  30. Profile photo of mcboozerilla
    mcboozerilla Male 30-39
    646 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:40 am
    A woman who votes Republican would have to be even more retarded than the men who do.
  31. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1850 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:48 am
    Rosen is neck deep in the Obama machine and anybody who thinks her comments weren`t calculated and sanctioned by said machine is a fool. They were swinging for the fence and the ball fell 300 feet short. Ann is a great asset to Romney`s campaign, the libs know it so they were slinging mud plain and simple. The woman raised 5 kids and has battled MS and cancer and the libs sling mud at her while screaming "OMG teh right wing is wagin` da war on women." Pot, meet kettle.
  32. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:16 am
    vv Well said @DromEd!

    Liberals think it`s "A-OK" to attack `conservative` women as visciously and slanderously as they like! Call them c*nts, tw*ts, urge them to be raped, say they `never worked` because they raised a family in the traditional manner.

    Like Mrs John Kerry was different? Y`all remember the conservatives slagging her, right? Not? Because it never happened!

    If a Republican has the word "Real" in a sentence, they`re making it up.
    @Baalthy: You ALMOST stayed on topic! So close!
    But here a Democrat says someone never had a "real job" so what do you think about that? Eh?

    Once again: the liberals DO it, but it`s OK. The conservatives are ACCUSED of it, and that`s BAD!
  33. Profile photo of bigjwayn9
    bigjwayn9 Male 30-39
    55 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:13 am
    weird someone that does not share the same values would be quick to point out vague yet poignant male v female propaganda. I`m not right or left but it seems if your not left you clearly could care less about women..................i love my wife and more often than not she thinks of something i couldn`t. It`s not about republican or democrat its about what either of those things mean for each normal person. as a 30 year old it SUCKS to think about that i have been working for the same company since i was 18 and have 12 years invested yet could lose it all in a bad situation as many Americans have
  34. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36208 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:40 am

    I`m tired of this extremism. Every time anyone says one thing we don`t like the media say it`s a "War On fill-in-the-blank". War on Mothers. War on Women. War on Conservatives. War on whoever.

    The only actaul `war on women` I am aware of is the way muslim men treat their women.
  35. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:40 am
    5 Cats you sound like an offended pussy, oh poor little baby!
  36. Profile photo of greenbasterd
    greenbasterd Male 18-29
    2377 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:46 am
    what a joke.. if this is what makes or breaks the a president there are serious problems.. its just... i cant believe there are people out there who get hyped about things like this.. and just fall into media`s zombie land soap opera.. its insane.. insane how stupid people can actually be.. insane how brainwashed some people are.
  37. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:59 am
    "I cant believe there are people out there who get hyped about things like this.. and just fall into media`s zombie land soap opera."

    Welcome to America`s Opinion Media. Every week people on the left and the right, who are caught up in this stuff, are dished 5 - 10 of these sensational stories. It keeps them in a constant state of agitation. And once in that state trusted sources in the media can say anything and their followers will believe it - no matter how insane the idea is. Why do you think Fox News and MSNBC can get away with the things they do? Opinion media works best on the elderly because they are already cranky. Now they really have something to bitch about. Except what they are bitching about i nonsense.
  38. Profile photo of lawndartsftw
    lawndartsftw Male 40-49
    1811 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 10:43 am
    ...that was the exact moment that her TV gig ended...

    @Gerry. Agreed...
  39. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:01 am
    Republicans trying to limit women`s rights? Find a single time that one person said something slightly off (but factually correct) and declare that it`s actually Democrats trying to limit women`s rights.
  40. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1850 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:25 am
    There is no republican war on women. There may be some republicans that are against government entitlements for every little thing but that`s hardly a war. It`s the left screaming war but that don`t make it so.
  41. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:50 am
    Remember liberals: The so-called "War on Women" started with Obama trying to force a religion to pay for abortion drugs. The he said `well, we`ll force the insurance companies to give it out for free!` THEN they (Nancy Pelosi) arranged a FAKE conference where Sandra Fluke made shiite up as if it were true.
    See? There is only ONE side (Democrats) screaming about a `war on women` and this bimbo gets up and claims it`s the other side doing it?

    Big lies. Getting bigger all the time.
  42. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm
    "There is no republican war on women. There may be some republicans that are against government entitlements for every little thing but that`s hardly a war."

    I agree that there is no war on women. But the Republican voting record does not speak very well for women`s rights. That is what women are looking at. That is why they are leaning more towards Obama.
  43. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    5cats the insurance mandate held that employers cover contraception, not abortions. Federal payment for abortions has been banned since 1973`s Hyde amendment. That is an empirical fact, it cannot be demagogued, it is not up to interpretation, it simply *is*. Likewise for the morning after pill which is not an abortifacient, this is an empirical fact held by every medical institution in the country, it cannot be demogogued, it is not up to interpretation, it simply *is*. Rep. governors and statehouses in the `90s mandated the same thing way back when and there was no fuss about it at all, there are still states (like mine) that had mandatory contraception coverage for *all* employers regardless of religious affiliation and there was no fuss about it at all. Religious colleges had the same mandates for themselves even and there was no fuss about it at all. Until now.
  44. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    Dems held a conference on how lack of contraception coverage could hurt women, and this time they invited an actual woman (GASP) to testify, unlike Issa`s previous showboat conference that conspicuously had no women whatsoever but only invited men in their black religious robes. She told the story of how her friend needed hormone therapy provided by BC pills, couldn`t afford them and then consequently lost an ovary do to the complications. Rush larda$$ made some misogynistic comments on air and is now conspicuously w/o advertisers.

    Give up, even Lisa Murkowski, R Alaska, disagrees with you. She`s that rep. from the same state as Sarah...Pilgrim? Remember?
  45. Profile photo of hauswyfe
    hauswyfe Female 30-39
    280 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    As a housewife, I can tell you two things, Ms Rosen. 1-a housewife actually cares more about the economy because she is relying on her partner to make ends meet for the whole family. If hubby loses his job, wife is up poo creek without a paddle. 2- Being a stay-at-home wife is a job all by itslef. A woman makes a choice to devote her whole life to the service of her family and spouse, and relinquishes economic independence for a life much more fulfilling than a chase for the almighty buck. You don`t need to "work" to understand the value of a dollar, biyatch!
    I wanted to reach into the tv and choke that woman when I heard her say that!
  46. Profile photo of DromEd
    DromEd Male 40-49
    1850 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    hauswyfe for the win!
  47. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 2:47 pm
    My mom was a stay at home mom until I was 14. She`s awesome!
  48. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 3:12 pm
    Zira: Actually the left`s campaign against Rush Limbaugh has backfired, most all of Rush`s advertisers got thousands of supportive e-mails from his listeners and are back to advertising on his radio show.

    Rush didn`t say anything worse than what liberals like Bill Maher said about Sarah Palin and her daughters.

    It`s also been revealed that the Obama White House Pays Women 16% Less Than Men.

    “This place would be in court for a hostile workplace,” former White House communications director Anita Dunn is quoted as saying. “Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women.”
  49. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 3:15 pm
    "The so-called "War on Women" started with Obama trying to force a religion to pay for abortion drugs. The he said `well, we`ll force the insurance companies to give it out for free!`"

    Contraception is an abortion drug? The stupidity in that statement is epic.
  50. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 3:34 pm
    "It`s also been revealed that the Obama White House Pays Women 16% Less Than Men."

    Men do hold more of the higher paying jobs in the white house - politics is still a man`s world. But don`t respond that women are paid less than men with the exact same jobs because that is a flat out lie.
  51. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm
    Markust: It`s obvious you`re completely hypnotized by the Obama campaign.

    Maybe this`ll snap you out of it.

  52. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    CrakrJak, Karl Rove would be so proud. You follow his tactics for effective conservative blogging to a T.
  53. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm
    Likewise for the morning after pill which is not an abortifacient,
    It causes a miscarriage: It`s an abortion pill. Technical talk aside, that`s what it does.

    Religious colleges had the same mandates for themselves
    Sandra Fluke went to that school SPECIFICALLY to challenge their `contraceptives` rule in the insurance coverage, idk why you think Religious Colleges are OK with it.

    they invited an actual woman (GASP)
    Yes, exactly ONE speaker, ONE! To speak in front of a room full of Democrats, and cameras of course, and NO ONE ELSE. In other words: fake!

    Contraception is an abortion drug?
    No @markust: the `morning after pill` IS an abortion drug. See above. Obama`s "solution" was so stupid as to be laughable! Except he`s the PotUS, that makes it truely scary.
  54. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 5:18 pm
    5cats` arguments in simplest form.


  55. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:44 pm
    @QueenZira: You are desperatly flailing about in a feeble effort to change the subject.

    If a fertilized egg is killed, on purpose, it`s an abortion. Period. Full stop. End of sentence!

    Mincing about with "technical definitions" or meme`s changes nothing.

    Obama proved himself a completel IDIOT in his "give it out for free" idea. Period!
  56. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 6:46 pm
    "It causes a miscarriage: It`s an abortion pill. Technical talk aside, that`s what it does. "

    In order for a woman to have a miscarriage, she HAS TO be pregnant first. In order to be pregnant, a fertilized egg HAS TO implant in the womb. If it has not implanted, it is not a pregnancy and it is not a miscarriage. The morning after pill does NOT cause miscarriages. At most, it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting, but that is /not/ a miscarriage. The body reacts to a non-implanted fertilized egg in the same exact way is it reacts to a non-fertilized egg, it`s expelled from the body about 14 days after ovulation. This also occurs naturally quite frequently. If you think the morning after pill is bad, you must be against IVF too, because they purposefully fertilize eggs and purposefully don`t implant all of them (or else more women would be like octomom).
  57. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:40 pm
    In order to be pregnant, a fertilized egg HAS TO implant in the womb.
    First off: I thank you for replying seriously (as opposed to the "memes" post) k?
    Second: This may be a multi-post reply...

    This depends on when you say "life" begins. Ok? If it begins "at birth" then even a 9 month abortion is OK! However some believe it begins "at conception" and THAT is when the egg is fertilized.

    I personally believe it`s when the egg divides from 16 to 32 cells and has completely different DNA from the mother.

    HOWEVER interference with the growth of a fertilized egg IS ABORTION! Period! If, left alone, the egg would develope into a baby? It`s abortion!

    I do NOT lump "birth control" into this the way Catholics (and Anglicans iirc) do. And Muslims. If you `prevent` the egg`s fertilization it is NOT abortion.
  58. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:46 pm
    Oh so you`re one of those folks who thinks as soon as the man ejaculates there are 3 people in the room, immediately. Well no wonder you`re so all fired against contraception then.

    Because for you, eggs are people with every right granted to an already fully developed human, including the right to vote and to bear arms.

    Thinking logically then, You`d have to monitor every single sexually active woman`s cycle, and then when she has her period you have to collect every single used tampon and sanitary napkin to have a funeral for. We`re talking coffins, mourners, priests rabbis ect ect. the whole 9 yards because all those are possible dead people after all.

    Go Get `Em Tiger! (This is why Goddess left childbirth to wymminfolk *facepalm*)
  59. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:47 pm
    IVF: I believe that "culling" IVF fetuses is abortion, that`s obvious to me.
    However, I`ve never once in my life said ALL abortions are bad.
    Some may believe that, not me! If death or worse are the options, then abortion is `acceptable`.

    The notion of "raising fetuses" for stemm cell "harvesting" offends me greatly! But luckily science seems to have moved beyond that point. *phew!*

    Personal story: Knew a couple who for 7 years tried everything to make babies. ONE round of `fertilization drugs` and triplets were on the way!
    But the ultrasound showed one was not developed enough to survive, selective abortion was reccomended.
    After consulting with their Anglican Priest they decided to let "God decide". They had 3 sons! 2 healthy and 1 rather sickly. But all alive.

    Not IVF it`s true, but same idea.
  60. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:48 pm
    "HOWEVER interference with the growth of a fertilized egg IS ABORTION! Period! If, left alone, the egg would develope into a baby? It`s abortion! "

    No, it`s not. It doesn`t matter when you think life begins because abortion/miscarriage are technical terms and not opinions. A woman has to be pregnant in order to have a miscarriage or have an abortion. Think of it like this: There`s no guarantee that the fertilized egg would have implanted (I had a hard time finding statistics, but I read somewhere that about 60% of fertilized eggs naturally don`t implant, it could be lower than that, but I`m willing to bet it`s above 25%). Her body does not react any differently until the fertilized egg implants. Also, the morning after pill will NOT affect any egg that has already implanted. You cannot use the morning after pill for abortion because it does not affect implanted eggs. If it can`t be used for abortions, how is it an abortion pill?
  61. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:51 pm
    "I believe that "culling" IVF fetuses is abortion, that`s obvious to me. "

    But it`s not abortion because no one is pregnant. An abortion can only happen when someone is pregnant. A fertilized egg being released naturally as if it were unfertilized is not a miscarriage. A fertilized egg being released naturally as if it were unfertilized as a result of the morning after pill is not a miscarriage nor is it an abortion. A fertilized egg not being implanted into a body so that the woman doesn`t become pregnant with 8 kids also isn`t an abortion. A fertilized egg will never develop further without implanting.
  62. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:53 pm
    Nooo, @QueenZira:First of all: It takes time for the little guys to swim to the target, DUH! If the egg is unfertile, or rejected NATURALLY, or whatever, it`s Mother Nature at work! (we can leave God out of this entirely, since I`m a Deist and you`re obviously an atheist or something). Funny how you leave Muslims OUT of your mockery @Zira...

    I`m saying that killing a fertilized (PAST TENSE) egg ON PUROPSE is ABORTION! If that is "right" or "wrong" is another matter.

    Sort of sorry for the caps, sorry I have to shout to be heard really...
  63. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 7:54 pm
    Also 5Cats, what was the point of your story? My mom was told my brother was dead and that she should have an abortion. She didn`t believe the doctor so she went to another doctor and found out that, le gasp, my brother wasn`t dead. And he`s 23 years old now and still not dead. Doesn`t change my opinions on anything, other than stressing the importance of getting a second opinion about serious issues o.o
  64. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:00 pm
    it does not affect implanted eggs
    Not what I`ve read, but I do thank you @LillianDulci for conversing with me. I never expected to "change" your opinion but hoped you`d agree nonetheless!

    I can and do understand what you`ve said, and it does have merit! I just disagree. I`m rather "hardline" on technical definitions, and when people start `bending` them to suit their agendas? It ticks me off.
    Not that you`re doing that! To be clear.

    It`s not an abortion because it doesn`t look like a baby! (2 months)
    It`s not an abortion because it couldn`t survive outside the womb (4 months)
    It`s not an abortion because it wasn`t born yet (8 months)
    See? Excuses.
  65. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm
    Weak broham, weak. Lemme know when you can set up that national menstrual pad collection agency/ fertility monitoring center though, that`ll be a riot.

    This is what always *always* happens when we let men pontificate on reproductive systems they don`t posses, without fail. It doesn`t matter if it`s Aristotle thousands of years ago talking about the mysterious moving womb animal alive in women`s abdomens or if it`s right friggin` here and now talking about all the poor little egg people civilizations. Isis, Diana and Kali give me strength.
  66. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm
    That IS the point of my story! I`m so glad your brother wasn`t aborted and I bet you are too!

    Abortion isn`t something you can "change your mind about". In MY OPINION it wipes out another, seperate human being.

    My birth-mother turned 16 one month before I popped out, I am VERY glad abortion wasn`t "cool" in 1963... yes I was adopted.

    Yes I`ve met my birth-mother (so much like me it`s scary!) and biological father too. I think I`m all done in the abortion topic, but will chat about that if you like...
  67. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm
    when we let men pontificate
    Ooo! @QueenZira do tell us more! Because OBVIOSLY "men" know NOTHING about women and should never form an opinion on such things as `life` and `abortion` eh?
    And white people should NEVER form opinions about n*ggers!
    And hey! Why are YOU forming opinions about males? YOU KNOW NOTHING about how "men" think, STFU! FFS!
    Now get in the kitchen and make me a sammich!

    (See, I`m being sarcastic here, ok?)

    (this only applies to @QZ, who has been most rude lately I must say...)
  68. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm
    "Not what I`ve read"
    Do you have any non-biased (i.e. not from a "pro-life" source) source that shows that the morning after pill can cause actual abortions (meaning, the egg has implanted, but because of the morning after pill, the pregnancy was lost)? I have never heard that happen before; I`ve only ever heard people calling it an "abortion" due to a fertilized egg being expelled, even though it hasn`t implanted. That`s not what abortion is though, as we`ve already discussed.

    "it`s not an abortion because it doesn`t look like a baby! (etc etc)"
    I`ve never ever heard anyone make this kind of an argument. It`s an abortion if it happens after implantation, period. If she`s 5 weeks along or 20 weeks along it`s still an abortion. But she has to actually be *pregnant* first.
  69. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm
    "I`m so glad your brother wasn`t aborted and I bet you are too! "

    But the thing is, if she had gone through with the abortion, she would have never known that he was actually alive and that the doctor was incompetent (he refused to give an actual ultrasound to my mom because he couldn`t hear a heartbeat even though she insisted on an ultrasound). I may have thought it was unfortunate that I could have had a sibling but that it died. As much as I love my brother *now*, we would have had no way of knowing how he would have been and how our life would have been with him. I personally wouldn`t have felt any true loss. Actually, my mom miscarried before having my brother. When I found out, I thought it was unfortunate, but that`s about it. In some alternate universe where I have 2 older siblings instead of 1, maybe I would think it`d be so horrible without my oldest sibling. But I can`t say I feel anything like that, considering I never knew him/her.
  70. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm
    First Try! At the top of my first search!

    I`d read before (@MacGuffin is shuddering as I type this) that it works 3-4 days after sex. That`s plenty of time, IF iirc, for implantation. I could be wrong though, but it`s not 12 hours (literally the morning after) it`s 72+
    Wiki suggests up to 120 hours later for some types of drugs.

    What you say about "It`s not an abortion" is 100% correct. People say "it`s not a baby" and therefor an "abortion" isn`t harming a human being. My mispeaking.
    I stand corrected!
  71. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm
    @LillianDulci: My adoptive mother (real Mum!) also miscarried and was `unable` to have further pregnancies. That`s how Mum and Dad got on the `short list` to get me! And my brother too. Lucky them, eh? They thought about a third child (a girl) to adopt but...
    A miscarriage is an act of Mother Nature, it happened and that`s that.

    I know 3 women who`ve had EXTREMELY EARLY deliveries, thank heaven the babies were OK! Mums too! Science, it works real good sometimes!
  72. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:07 pm
    5Cats, from the link you provided:

    Is plan B an abortion pill?
    Absolutely not. It may be comforting to know that plan B does not work if you are already pregnant (a fertilized egg has attached to the wall of the uterus). So if you take plan B, you will not be terminating a pregnancy. However, if you already have a confirmed pregnancy, you should not use plan B because it will not be effective.
  73. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm
    It may work 5+ days after sex. idk for sure, but it sounds like an abortifacient to me.
  74. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 9:21 pm
    politics is drating stupid, especially republicans
  75. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 13, 2012 at 11:15 pm
    5Cats, it can take 7+ days after fertilization for an egg to implant, so 5 days after sex is reasonable. Sperm can also take up to 3 days to fertilize an egg.
  76. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 12:27 am
    "What you say about "It`s not an abortion" is 100% correct. People say "it`s not a baby" and therefor an "abortion" isn`t harming a human being. My mispeaking.
    I stand corrected!"

    I was was pretty impressed by this but then an hour later you called it an abortion again. You`re not going to win this one against woman. You were so close to being cool.
  77. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:41 am
    markust: I can understand your position. I too think a zygote isn`t quite `human` in form enough to call loosing it `an abortion`. Many times a fertilized eg doesn`t implant and flushes out a woman`s body during menstruation, that part I agree with Zira about.

    That`s why I believe the in the `at heartbeat` level of pregnancy to logically be the point at which a fertilized egg becomes a human being.

    It`s a compromise, one based on science, not religion or the far left extreme of `not until it`s born`.

    If you`re dead your heart has stopped beating, If your alive your heart is beating. It`s so simple even a child can understand it.
  78. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:06 am
    CrakrJak, you`d die if many parts of you stop working, such as your liver. Why focus on the heart only? It`s not like that`s the only vital part of your body. It makes more sense to use their brain as a point (not allowing abortion after they are sentient) because brains define humans far more than hearts do. Not able to think, not able to process pain, not able to pretty much do anything except automatic reactions that you have no control over. Think about why it`s okay to take a brain dead person off of life support. They`re essentially dead, they just happen to have a functioning body (i.e. a beating heart, working liver, etc).

    If you go based on heartbeat, then women can`t have abortions after ~5 weeks. Many women don`t even know they`re pregnant by then and it`s an absolutely ridiculous cutoff time.
  79. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:10 am
    "It`s a compromise, one based on science, not religion or the far left extreme of `not until it`s born`."
    Saying ~5 weeks is basically the same as saying never, because few women would be able to detect the pregnancy, determine she wants and abortion, schedule an appointment, and go through with the procedure within such a short amount of time.

    "If you`re dead your heart has stopped beating, If your alive your heart is beating. It`s so simple even a child can understand it."
    It`s possible to restart hearts after they`ve stopped beating, so it`s not like the instant your heart stops beating, you`re dead. I can say "If you`re dead, you can`t eat chicken, but if you`re alive, you can eat chicken" and say that any fetus can be aborted (note: I don`t support it after they become sentient) because they can`t eat chicken. Flawed logic.
  80. Profile photo of ShudBWorking
    ShudBWorking Male 18-29
    86 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    Re: LillianDulci-
    Flawed Logic? Who`s logic is flawed here? Were not talking about what a person can and cannot do, the subject was that of a vital organ`s function. When they can no longer revive the heart, a person is dead. Again, simple logic. I really don`t see the problem here, and it is easy even for a child to understand, so why can`t you? Human heart beat equals human life, I really don`t understand why this is even an issue, and why we still allow human heart to be stopped on a regular basis just because an irresponsible woman/man combo decided to go have sex when they didn`t want a kid, which is the reason for a majority of abortions when you boil it down. If you`re not ready to have a kid (man or woman) then don`t have sex, it`s that simple. And yes, you can go without sex, it is possible and done all the time by many different kinds of people. Examples: Practicing Catholics before marriage, dido for Christians, Mormons, and Jews.
  81. Profile photo of ShudBWorking
    ShudBWorking Male 18-29
    86 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:50 pm
    As for your sentient argument, LillianDulci, there is a term called brain dead, where a person is still alive while non-functioning. However, once a heart is no longer functioning (i.e. not even a machine can keep it going) the person is dead, end of story. I can`t wait to make it to SCOTUS to make this argument, it really seems like a shut and close case to me. On the other hand, thank you for all your posts, they are helping me understand the other point of view so that I can better argue years from now when I finally get a case that I can get there.
  82. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:11 pm
    ShudBWorking, idk why I should bother replying to you when you obviously didn`t even bother to read my post. (hint: I mentioned brain dead people and how it`s perfectly legal to take them off of life support because they`re essentially dead already, their other organs just remain functioning)

    Like I already said, which you`d know if you bothered to read my post, which you didn`t, is that there are many organs that would kill you if they stopped functioning. The heart is not the only one. So why say the heart has to be functioning? It`s the same as any other organ that`s vital for your body to function. However, what defines a HUMAN is our BRAIN. A brain dead person is not the same person as when their brain was functioning. They have no sort of personality or ability to do anything besides automatic functions. They are essentially a machine that`s still running with no purpose, stuck in a state of dead but not quite.
  83. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm

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