School Board Chairman Don McLeroy On Evolution

Submitted by: Gerry1of1 5 years ago in

"Someone has to stand up to the experts!"
There are 74 comments:
Female 399
It grosses me the eff out how you have to call the people whose ideas you oppose, "wonderful people," or you`re a racist/rabid atheist/sexist/etc.
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Male 174
"If you killed all the atheists in America you`d kill about 90% of their scientists. If you killed all the Christians, you`d kill 75% of their prison population."

...dude, that`s fashism. Besides that, your argument isn`t even valid since beeing christian isn`t necessarily the reason why these people are in prison. Here`s a fun fact: according to the united states census bureau 82% of americans are christian, whereas (acoording to you) only 75% percent of the prison inmates are. I bet that atheists have a higher chance of going to prison than... let`s say the amish. My point being: you can`t just correlate random data to prove something. There are scientific standards for that.

If you want to defend atheism or science vs religion, you better do your homework. Don`t use "science" the same way some religios people use "god".

"Blahblahblah God, therefore I`m right."
This is not how it works.
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Male 453
I have faith in patchgrabber`s statistics. You cannot prove them wrong sufficiently for me to disbelieve so don`t even try. My mind is now closed on this subject.
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Male 12,365
[quote">LOTS of scientists are Christians.[/quote">

No they aren`t, not even if you consider only the USA and ignore the rest of the world.

Most identify as atheist, agnostic or agnostic atheist (which is probably what most of those who call themselves atheists or agnostics actually are).

Most of the rest are not Christians - they either follow other religions or they kind of sort of believe in some sort of god, probably, without any religion.

Here`s an example, with a very Christian spin on it.

Clicky clicky
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Male 40,317
@patchy: you pulled those "stats" out of your arse, you`re better than that bro!

LOTS of scientists are Christians.
LOTS of prisoners are Christians too, because LOTS of Americans are! DUH!

But your stats still smell like butt...
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Male 1,239
[quote]As long as we are going to pick and choose which scientific facts really exists, I have decided gravity is a false claim by athiests. Therefore you all have permission to float around at will.
[/quote]

HOLY poo this is fun, THANKS!.

[quote]If you killed all the atheists in America you`d kill about 90% of their scientists. If you killed all the Christians, you`d kill 75% of their prison population.[/quote]
While this might be true it`s a poor scientific approach in its own right. Even if true they hardly represent the average Christian as a whole. Many people of all walks, jobs, and personalities would die, not just prisoners. You also haven`t considered the fact that a huge portion of prisoners were not Christian when they went in and a large number of even those have no real faith but seek a cheap absolution.
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Male 1,239
If it isn`t religion, it`s politics. If not that, then skin color. If not that, then simply where someone is from will do. The only real way to end this petty bullpoo is the mass ascension of our species to something more or its complete extinction. As it is we are stuck in a bitter middle between truly intelligent, civil beings and animals.
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Male 1,558
Good stat patchgraber. End religion for the betterment of ME!!!
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Male 5,811
[quote]there might be a scientific theory regarding mass murder and it`s impact on humanity.[/quote]
If you killed all the atheists in America you`d kill about 90% of their scientists. If you killed all the Christians, you`d kill 75% of their prison population.
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Male 2,670
Another example of religious people being very, very stupid.

Not that this is a big surprise anymore. Religion = stupid.
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Male 6,737
Hilarious!

Also is this guy up for telling of the Muslim, Buddhist etc origins of life as much as his Christian view? Doubt it.
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Male 174
"If I was king of the world, people who deny scientific theories without evidence would be killed on sight."

Do you have any scientific evidence on how killing millions of people would help society? Cause if you don`t... better not become king of the world. I`m pretty sure that (after WWII and all) there might be a scientific theory regarding mass murder and it`s impact on humanity.
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Male 450
Maybe this guy is acting like an idiot to cover up his ultimate plan. By focusing so much attention on the supposed holes in the Theory of Evolution no one is talking about how utterly ridiculous Creationism is.
I say supposed holes because the flaws in the theory are more likely the result of human interpretation or error than a fault in the theory itself. Much of which has already been pointed out but a for instance; there are holes in the fossil records because human methodology/technology is flawed yet that gives ammo to those who oppose the theory.
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Male 1,931
If I was king of the world, people who deny scientific theories without evidence would be killed on sight.
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Male 496
I just realized how the reference to swallowing a pill could be taken out of context. Just saying, accept the truth.
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Male 496
I think it`s good this is getting media attention. Things like this make people say, "Wait a second, am I really siding with this guy?" It`s not hard to inform yourself and realize that evolution is just true. It makes sense. Just swallow the pill and move on.
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Male 735
damnt ledzeppeloyd stop saying that!
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Male 735
who are da experts?
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Male 2,214
At least they sent their best Idiot...
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Male 15,832
This is why all public education should be abolished. Well, it`s ONE reason why public education should be abolished; there are dozens of others.
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Male 2,384
ugh ignorance...
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Male 438
I love how he wants to "stand up to experts" but in a court of law his opinion would not even be heard.
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Male 438
In what other science would you teach high school students 2 different views, and then tell the high school kids "you decide what is true".
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Male 522
See Gerry, that choosing actually explains people like his entire mind set. They pick and choose what they believe out of their Holy Book, so the think they can pick and choose what to believe out of their science book.
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Male 40,317

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Male 7,378
He`s living up to the researchers determination of republicans and low IQ.
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Male 39,565

As long as we are going to pick and choose which scientific facts really exists, I have decided gravity is a false claim by athiests. Therefore you all have permission to float around at will.

Enjoy!
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Male 2,516
It`s bad enough that he`s involved in education, but he`s a dentist too... Who in their right mind would let someone who doesnt know the first thing about science work on their teeth? What does he do, pray the cavities away?
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Male 15,184
How can someone so ignorant be involved in education?
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Male 3,369
@Angillion: "It`s OK - that article isn`t the author`s own opinion. It`s a satire of the creationist position, showing how ridiculous it is by applying the same "reasoning" to a different theory."

*breathes sigh of relief..sorta*

Considering some of what I`ve heard from devout creationists, that`s pretty subtle satire if you ask me. LOL
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Male 12,365
[quote]4. The reason for the apparent lose of natural selection is brought on by us. We can choose what we want to save and what not to. This is artificial selection and is noted in breeding.
[/quote]

Which reminds me of an open question I have for evolution deniers:

How do you think selective breeding works?



Humans have been using evolution as a tool for millenia - selective breeding is evolution by human selection. If evolution didn`t exist, selective breeding couldn`t work.
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Male 12,365
[quote]@Angilion.. as long as there are these `unknowns`
in science, we are always going to have to incorporate some belief.[/quote]

No, we don`t.

If you believe, you reject the possibility of making the unknown known. If you choose to think something is known when it isn`t (belief), you can`t seek to know it.

Besides, you referred to evolution as a thing requiring belief. So you referred to the entire idea of evolution as being something unsubstantiated, i.e. requiring belief.

Science doesn`t need belief to deal with unknowns. Science can use consideration of evidence, probability and enough honesty to say when something isn`t known for sure and assess how reliable the knowledge is. Belief is not necessary and it isn`t part of science. Belief as a form of subjective bias may be unavoidable to some extent, but that`s part of what objectivity and peer review is for.
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Male 2,516
@AEimiller, I responded to you about it too, and why it`s not the greatest idea to incorporate the small issues into introductory material, but even given that case any respectable book includes them to some extent
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Male 150
5. Let`s start challenging the experts on other fields too. Cause this gravity poo is bananas.
6. You can think of one guy who has a vague quote on how evolution is wrong. I can quote hundreds who say you and your boy are wrong.

I could go on and on, but unless you are painfully interested for a study of biology I`ll just stop and ask: Why is it we are debating on what should be taught when there is vast evidence and no actual expert who thinks that evolution has a flaw beyond a taxa classification?
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Male 150
After spending the last two months on my senior capstone paper (Cambrian Radiation) I am shocked my head did not explode listening to that.

1. There can be stasis in evolution, followed by rapid change. This is known as punctuated equilibrium. This is opposed to gradualism in which change occurs continuously, albeit slower than punctuated equilibrium.
2. Yes the fossil record is incomplete for two reasons. First we haven`t found it all yet. Second, fossilization is a rare event requiring specific conditions that only work on some body parts. This is a huge issue for preservation of soft body parts, which usually requires invasion of minerals into the cell before they degrade.
3. Yes you are making an impassioned plea, because that is all you can do. You have no standing otherwise.
4. The reason for the apparent lose of natural selection is brought on by us. We can choose what we want to save and what not to. This is artificial selection and is noted in breeding.
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Male 621
I love how this guy says "someone has to stand up to experts" and he does that by (mis)quoting an expert.

The "stasis is data" quote he`s referring to is Stephen Jay Gould`s discussion of a form of evolution known as punctuated equilibrium. It states that sometimes a species may evolve very little over a long period of time, and then suddenly evolve more rapidly for a bit, before settling down again into a period of little evolution. Those periods of little evolution were the "stasis" he was referring to.

So, the guy he quotes to disprove evolution, was actually a firm believer in evolution, and he even came up with a different way that things may evolve!

Quoting Gould like that is like quoting the Wright brothers when trying to make an argument *against* the possibility of powered flight.
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Male 12,365
SmagBoy1:

Evolution is proven. What you wrote applies to the theory of evolution, not to evolution. They`re two very different things.

Using another theory to illustrate:

The germ theory of disease is in essence the idea that diseases can be caused by germs. It`s a lot more developed than that, of course, but that`s the guts of it.

There`s a lot of evidence supporting that theory and it`s almost certainly right, but assume for the sake of argument that it is proven wrong at some point. Would that mean that diseases never existed? Of course not - the explanation of how somthing happens is not that something.
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Male 1,284
evolution is a theory in a way that we don`t fully understand it and its mechanics, not in a way that its true or not. Evolution as been observed and has been proven.Now creationism is just a story.
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Male 12,365
[quote]I believe in evolution, but it is still a theory.[/quote]

You have just proved that you don`t have any understanding of even the basic principles of science, so you`re not qualified to make judgements regarding anything scientific.

i) Evolution is not a theory. The theory of evolution is a theory. Only someone who has no idea what the words mean in a scientific context could confuse the two. In scientific terms, evolution is an observation. More accurately, a multitude of observations.

ii) Belief is not part of science. You don`t believe in scientific things. If you think you do, you don`t know what science is. You`re treating science as another religion and it`s a completely different thing.

He only appears to have made any point to people who don`t understand.
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Male 4,431
[quote]I believe in evolution, but it is still a theory. We can`t automatically assume evolution is true and flawless because we hate creationism so much. He brings up a good point...[/quote] No AEimiller, he doesn`t bring up a good point. No scientist worth their salt says the evolution as currently presented is flawless. None! It`s only the uneducated who *assume* this is the official position of science because that`s how those of faith often defend the Bible. Evolution is most assuredly *not* flawless. And, if one day evidence turns up that disproves it, evolution will be disproven. But, as of now, the evidence is *extremely heavily weighted* in favor of evolution. That`s a far cry from claiming it`s flawless, and farther still from the idea that, because evolution doesn`t provide every answer that we should embrace a story like creationism without *any* supporting data just because creationism makes up the answers!!!
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Male 2,516
I concur with Squrlz4Sale, I wish we could make a global announcement that a theory is not just someone`s guess
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Male 4,431
Squrlz, if they`re actually interested, here`s a nicely non-biased one: from National Geographic.
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Male 1,249
derp derp my opinion > your opinion derp derp
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Male 120
Theory - a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena.
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Male 6,227
Can someone post a link for the uninformed that explains that the theory of evolution is not some kind of theoretical guess?

Sorry if this comes across as condescending, but in 2012, any educated person should understand the scientific method and grasp what the word "theory" means in that context. I am BEYOND tired of having to listen to people who should know this stuff brought up to speed.

~Squrlz pulls his whiskers in a show of exasperation~
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Male 2,516
@AEimiller, would it make sense to tell high school or elementary students that the quantum-predicted graviton has yet to be found in experiment? Does that really change anything about the extent of knowledge they are being fed?

Those little quirks don`t really change the fact that people must know that we know evolution is happening, you can see it happening whenever you kill mosquitos and the next generation of mosquitos is harder to kill, you can literally see it if you look down a microscope and see cells evolving resistance to a hostile environment right in front of you.

None of those little things changes these facts, and presenting them to people who have yet to understand the parts that do work is a deliberately confusing idea. Also... "believing" in evolution? Really? You don`t believe in mechanics, they just are.
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Female 267
@ carmium - This jackass is a dentist.
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Male 1,231
he who controls the past controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past. Glad my kids aren`t going to the school under his control.
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Female 6,381
So what is this fool when he`s not school board chairman? A used car salesman? Grocery store manager? And he`s going to contradict the brightest minds in evolutionary biology by trying to cherry-pick and distort quotes? Only in America.
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Male 2,516
@Kain1, no it`s not... biologists are even doubting natural selection is the biggest contributor to evolution, it plays a role for sure but it`s definitely not THE only thing that`s going on, specially since humans started juggling with the evolution of species. There`s no single fundamental mechanism behind evolution and biologists don`t agree right now on what is exactly that`s moving evolution forward, or how exactly these mechanisms work and their role.

On the other hand although we still don`t know everything about gravity, most of what`s left to know about gravity is whether or not it can be described in quantum terms - I personally don`t think it can, or at least not yet, but that is the extent of my research.
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Male 1,471
@Angilion
It`s not better supported, but it is more completely understood. The fundamental mechanism behind evolution is well understood, which can not be said for the theory of gravity.
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Male 815
That was intense...
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Male 4,431
The same school board doesn`t just stop with Creationism over Evolution. They also like to erase actual history and promote conservatism (for example, downplaying Thomas Jefferson to an almost insignificant role). It`s far more insidious than mere stupidity. See here (NY Times Article).
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Male 12,365
[quote]So to say "it`s far better supported" it`s stretching the truth[/quote]

Fair point. I was overstating my case. It isn`t far better supported than the theory of gravity, which is far better supported than I was implying.
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Male 12,365
[quote]@Angillion: The guy in this video made me chuckle. The author of the article you linked to made me fear for humanity.[/quote]

It`s OK - that article isn`t the author`s own opinion. It`s a satire of the creationist position, showing how ridiculous it is by applying the same "reasoning" to a different theory.
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Female 737
He must feel confused all the time.

So being an expert is a bad thing now? Huh.
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Male 2,516
@bataleon27 supplementing jtrebowski`s comment:

... by argument of stasis, that because some structures did not evolve (remained stagnant), the conclusion must be, without a doubt, that nothing ever did.
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Male 3,369
@bataleon: Read this.

Essentially, they`re trying to disprove the theory of evolution
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Male 2,516
@Angilion: [quote]The evidence for the existence of evolution is about as strong as the evidence for the existence of gravity and the theory (i.e. explanation of how it works) of evolution is far, far better supported by evidence than the theory of gravity. [/quote] No it`s not... the theory of gravity (general relativity) has been 99.99% accurate to date, and by that I mean that there`s only one prediction of it that has not been directly observed, although there is indirect evidence of it: gravitational waves. All predictions of general relativity agree extremely well with astronomical observation and laboratory experiments.

On the other hand, evolution has extensive proof and as a non-biologist I wouldn`t know the extent of it, but it is my understanding that the role of natural selection in evolution has diminished in current observation.

So to say "it`s far better supported" it`s stretching the truth
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Male 3,369
@Angillion: The guy in this video made me chuckle. The author of the article you linked to made me fear for humanity.
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Male 34
I can`t brain today I has the dumb.
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Male 1,178
does anyone have any idea what the hell he`s talking about?
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Male 12,365
Denying the existence of evolution is on a par with denying the existence of gravity. It is genuinely that insane. Yes, I do mean that literally. It`s a delusion, a mental illness.

The evidence for the existence of evolution is about as strong as the evidence for the existence of gravity and the theory (i.e. explanation of how it works) of evolution is far, far better supported by evidence than the theory of gravity.

There`s some scope for sane dispute regarding explanation of how evolution works, but`s that`s not the same thing at all.

While looking at the theory of gravity to make sure that I was right in saying that it`s still much weaker than the theory of evolution, I found this excellent piece of writing that illustrates the point very well:

Gravity is "only a theory"
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Male 183
My Idiot-to-English translation plugin doesn`t seem to be working. This may not be a bad thing.
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Female 515
I`m SO glad I don`t live in Texas. Sweet JEBUS! What a freakin NUT JOB! How is this wacko allowed even 100 feet of the school board?
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Male 39,565

As I understand it, the backward folks won and "Intelligent Design" is now stressed over evolution in Texas textbooks.
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Male 10,855
Of the many things we Texans can be proud of, this guy isn`t one of them.
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Male 3,369
LOL! I almost feel sorry for him. What I don`t get is why we can`t let schools teach evolution, and churches teach creationism. Isn`t that fair?
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Male 83
The fossil record does support it, but the fossil record doesn`t support it.

What he is saying is that since the fossil record is not complete, which no one claims that it is, the entire theory of evolution must be wrong, and therefore cannot be taught.

I say we all stand up to the experts! I say we eschew all those who disagree with us, regardless of their years of research! Ignore the fact that nothing supports creation, but let`s cling onto the fact that the fossil record is incomplete, and therefore horribly false. What do experts know, anyway? It`s not like they`ve spent their entire lives in research and study. Politicians OBVIOUSLY know more about the origins of species than biologists and archaeologists.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. - Stephen Roberts
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Male 2,516
Because the word "expert" in Texas means evil
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Male 10,440
This man needs to die.
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Male 40,317
OMG! He`s fruit-bat-poo crazy! Or terribly misinformed.
Either way, he`s harming his `cause` more than helping.

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Male 1,284
I just can`t believe that in 2012, some people still defend the creationism idea, those people need to get out of their caves
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Male 39,565
Link: School Board Chairman Don McLeroy On Evolution [Rate Link] - `Someone has to stand up to the experts!`
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