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Date: 04/14/12 02:00 PM

103 Responses to Minimum Wage – Does The Minimum Wage Hurt Workers?

  1. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    339 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    Link: Minimum Wage - Does The Minimum Wage Hurt Workers? - Robbing the more needy to give to the less needy.
  2. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:11 pm
    I thought the real issue is that a min wage makes everybody poorer.
  3. Profile photo of tnaran
    tnaran Male 30-39
    220 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:14 pm
    Card and Krueger disproved this crap years ago.

    The assumption: the owner would still have kept Carl. If a company hires Carl, that company would have been crushed by companies with more productive workers, and Carl would STILL be out of a job. It`s not like companies that have more productive workers stay static.

    Raising the minimum wage is nice, but the levels politicians raise it to barely makes a difference either positive or negative. The answer is to make low-productivity workers, like Carl, into productive workers. And if there`s something preventing that, for example, mental handicap, then a subsidy to the employer, or a min wage exemption + direct subsidy to the worker, can be used.
  4. Profile photo of dynamites111
    dynamites111 Male 18-29
    76 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:17 pm
    I don`t see a problem with this at all. The least competent workers gets laid off, as they should be. The least competent workers are always the first to go anyways, minimum wage increases or not.
  5. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:20 pm
    The minimum wage hurts EVERYBODY.
  6. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6203 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:20 pm
    If you sell 310 burgers an hour and only make $7 an hour in profit you suck at life.
  7. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    The least competent would be fired anyway regardless of what the minimum wage is, since the least competent can always be replaced with the sightly more competent. This is a question of a tradeoff between what causes more overall good or less harm for the lower class.

    I would argue that it does more harm only in a situation where most of the population is at minimum wage. Otherwise most people are completely unaffected by it, and the poorest are, in fact, better off, since they often don`t know the value of their work.

    If there was no minimum wage it would be easy to exploit the masses into working for much less. It would also be close to a pure capitalism, which would of course be doomed to fail.

    Not only that but people make disproportionately more than their worth at every level. It`s one of the reasons why there is always some unemployment.
  8. Profile photo of Ant0n
    Ant0n Male 18-29
    761 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:34 pm
    Better flip those burgers faster
  9. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2314 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    What happens when clientele drops, and the need for burgers slips to 50 burgers an hour? After a week, one would have a backlog of rotting burgers- Oh I forgot, that`s what people eat anyway- old, stale, pre-made crap.
  10. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31797 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:38 pm
    Raising minimum wage makes everything cost more which harms poor people the most. Vastly disproportional.

    And how does it affect illegals? THEY still work for slave wages, and owners are MORE likely to hire them with high minimum wages...
  11. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    makes everything cost more
    That`s a tiny cost when compared with the benefit.
  12. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:43 pm
    "I thought the real issue is that a min wage makes everybody poorer."

    That`s accurate as well. At a macroeconomic level, increasing the minimum wage does nothing but cause inflation and unemployment.

    There may be more dollars in the hands of some workers, but there is less wealth.

    This doesn`t hurt the `evil businessman` because he`ll just fire his least productive workers and/or raise the price of his product.
  13. Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:47 pm
    The min wage makes the richest people poorer (hence why they spend so much time and money arguing against it) and the poorest richer. By making the standard for wages higher you increase disposable income which increases tax revenue and aggregate demand, while decreasing welfare payments. This however is in return for a short term rise in welfare and unemployment, so not advisable during a financial downturn, but a good idea during a boom when your approaching, or reach, transitional-only unemployment.

    However a better implementation than sudden increases is to raise the min wage ahead of inflation year on year, minimising short term effects while allowing long term effects to kick in at a good pace. But politicians like to make big jumps as that`s more of a vote winner as most people don`t get macroeconomics.
  14. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 2:55 pm
    How does this help with my boredom?
  15. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:02 pm
    This video makes a very logical point.
    However, since its based on invalid assumptions (it namely assumes that having employees generates almost no extra profit for the owner), the valid logic from that faulty assumption leads to an invalid, faulty conclusion.
  16. Profile photo of Selous
    Selous Male 30-39
    1197 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    minimum wage over here is $15.51hr with 5.2% unemployment rates, pretty clear that those 2 factors have very little to do with each other
    i wouldnt get out of bed for $8hr, much less $9.50hr
  17. Profile photo of keith2
    keith2 Male 18-29
    2587 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    That is a GROSS underestimation of actual profits made off workers. I`ve been in business long enough to know FOR A FACT that the majority of companies are only paying their workers around 1/3 of the profit they actually make off each working hour. Meaning this company is making around $33 per hour per person yet paying the worker only around $10.00 or $10.50 per hour. This is total horse shxt. No company could survive making 10 cents from every working hour. Please do not believe a damn word in this video. If you`ve ever managed ANYTHING you KNOW what I`m talking about.
  18. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:40 pm
  19. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    509 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm
    Pure BS. First, if you have 3 shifts that need to be filled, you need three people, regardless of how much or how little they produce. Most businesses have high volume times and low volume times. Even if they aren`t making money, they still need to be open to retain a client base.
    Second, suggesting you`re better off in the hopes of getting a raise, or better job is idiotic. NOBODY headhunts minimum wage employees and even fewer will offer a raise to someone they know lives paycheck to paycheck and needs a job.
  20. Profile photo of Frenzy4
    Frenzy4 Male 18-29
    65 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:02 pm
    Moral of the story: Don`t suck at your job.
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:09 pm
    A high minimum wage doesn`t help anyone, except for the unions. Unions always seek a higher and higher minimum wage to base their next contract wages on, regardless of how that may effect productivity. Unions don`t give a crap about minimum wage workers, they don`t even bother to try and unionize them. Higher union wages = higher union dues = more money for the union bosses. The more money a union gets the more they have to grease politicians with, in return for legislation to raise the minimum wage.

    It`s a never ending inflationary spiral of union greed, that costs taxpayers and consumers ever and ever more.
  22. Profile photo of Rawrg
    Rawrg Male 18-29
    934 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm
    Actually it`s a bit shortsighted. Here`s how it really works:

    Wages goes up => business expenses go up => prices go up = X. Take X times all the businesses that employ minimum wage workers, and you get inflation.

    This is why any increase in minimum wage is calculated usually in an attempt to keep up with inflation. It doesn`t always come out even, but right now it`s about in the middle of where it`s been in adjusted dollars.


  23. Profile photo of mcboozerilla
    mcboozerilla Male 30-39
    646 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:15 pm
    This is why no one in my family has voted for a drating Republican since at least the 1920`s.
  24. Profile photo of Rawrg
    Rawrg Male 18-29
    934 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:16 pm
    Side Note: This is also an example of how taxes can cause inflation. Taxes are expenses, so when you increase them, a business must compensate by adjusting it`s prices to meet the requirements of it`s overhead and profit projections. By increasing taxes too much, you can also devalue the dollar essentially. By the same token, not enough taxes, and you can`t run the government.

    Right now, the problem isn`t too low of taxes, it`s too high of federal spending.
  25. Profile photo of Dad4Life
    Dad4Life Male 50-59
    2068 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    Get tired of the this minimum wage argument. It was never meant to be a living wage. It`s so McDonald`s will pay a fair wage to it`s teen-aged work force.
  26. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 4:45 pm
    minimum wage over here is $15.51hr with 5.2% unemployment ratesSelous Male, 30-39, Australia

    Your population is less than 1% black. What`s your point.
  27. Profile photo of jops360
    jops360 Male 30-39
    689 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:02 pm
    i want to know where this $.10 burger is. lets use real world money and do the exact same experiment. bob makes 100 burgers an hour, the burgers cost $3 a piece, so he produces $300 worth of food an hour. minus the cost of each burger($1) and we are down to $200. he only pays him $9.50/hr so using the same logic the owner makes $190.50/hr. does this still make sense? no it doent because you cannot generalize it that much. this guy is just a right wing propagandist that wants you to think people would be better off making slave wages. companies are in it for the profit and dont give two poos about the worker anymore. they want to pay you less and if they get this passed they will, simple as that.
  28. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:08 pm
    Ten cents profit on a burger? Your stupid argument is already lost.
  29. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:09 pm
    This is all from the point of view of the corporation, which I give not a single flying drat for. Every human being deserves health care, food, and a clean living environment.
  30. Profile photo of chunkymonkie
    chunkymonkie Male 13-17
    670 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:10 pm
    jops, the owner KEEPS 10 cents from each burger for himself, the burger does not actually cost 10 cents.
  31. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:11 pm
    I do think people should be able to hire teens for less than minimum wage. Adults are taking the minimum wage jobs because they are more responsible. What does that leave us? A new generation of people that have bad work habits because they didn`t work as a teen. I learned how to multitask at A&W.
  32. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    @chunkiemonkie: so where does the rest of the money go? we already know that from a burger that costs $3, he`s keeping 0.10c, so for every 100 burgers there`s 280.50 dollars unaccounted for. Every hour.

    If your business stays open 8 hours, they`re spending $2244/day, or $58344/month.

    I don`t know about you, but for burgers, that sounds like horribly stupid management
  33. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    Suppose Suppose Suppose
    Suppoe the profit was $5.00 per burger.

    None of this matters if a Republican gets the White House because they want to eliminate minimum wage.
    Al and Bob will be paid $3.00 per hour and Carl will still be unemployed.
  34. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:24 pm
    even if it was the cheapest, most horrible burger in town (McDonald`s dollar menu) that still means they`re spending about $17000/month per worker making 9.50 as minimum wage in order to only keep 0.10c per burger.

    Some how, the argument is not only unrealistic, but stupid at figuring out how to justify it.
  35. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:26 pm
    markust123, but why should a teenager who`s working to buy an iPod or whatever be able to be hired cheaper than an adult who`s trying to feed their family? Corporations will take the cheaper work and poor adults will have a harder time finding work.
  36. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 5:32 pm
    Yeah like businesses would continue to pay below average production worker salary out of the goodness of their hearts until they are forced to see logic when minimum wage is enforced.
    All manufacturers have required production standard from their employees. They hire additional people when they have to and they fire them when they don`t need them. There are no laws making businesses hire a certain number of people. But the people they choose to employ are protected from modern day slavery.
  37. Profile photo of 8jdb28jdb2
    8jdb28jdb2 Male 30-39
    83 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    no one can by the burgers if no one can afford it.

    The argument in this video is so old and misses the point so baddly, that it`s disappointing to see it again.
  38. Profile photo of sirwolf
    sirwolf Male 40-49
    6 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:05 pm
    "Yeah like businesses would continue (Substitute could afford to for would) to pay below average production worker salary out of the goodness of their hearts
  39. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    this is bs,if business could hired you freely they would, minimun wage is too prevent america from becoming China
  40. Profile photo of sirwolf
    sirwolf Male 40-49
    6 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:14 pm
    @jendrian I ran a pizza place. Food, Labor and Coupons (FLCs) cost about %20. Marketing, plant costs, taxes, support salaries, admin costs, etc etcate up the rest.

    The profit to the corporation (owner) was around small (Ie seem to remember like .5%) We never felt sorry for him, though, he kept his wife happy.

    The point here is that no matter what, for a business to stay profitable, they have to keep FLCs at a target level.
  41. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:24 pm
    @sirwolf, what I was saying is that for a burger priced at the same level as McDonald`s mega-cheap sh*tty burgers, they would be paying 17 000/mo/worker on marketing, taxes, and other costs (not including salaries) to keep only 10c per burger.

    My point is that if he`s exaggerating how little the owner makes, we should also exaggerate how bad this hypothetical owner is at running a burger shop
  42. Profile photo of skine
    skine Male 18-29
    719 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:28 pm
    When you oversimplify something, you never get an accurate picture of it.

    In this example, you have to ignore fixed costs (rent, taxes, and the rest of the overhead) in order to get a simple cost per burger/hour.
  43. Profile photo of skine
    skine Male 18-29
    719 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:31 pm
    But really, even those who know nothing about business should know something about supply and demand.

    Honestly, if the person makes a $0.10 profit per burger, then he needs his demand to be equal to his supply at all times.
  44. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:36 pm
    minimun wage is too prevent america from becoming China

    Well at least their children are employed. But how about a better alternative like Earned Income Tax Credits? 15% Tax rate on everyone above a certain threshold and (the minimum wage for instance) and subsidize the lower skilled workers. That oughtta make you socialists happy.
  45. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:42 pm
    rent, taxes, and the rest of the overhead

    Well considering that empirical data was cited to show how minimum wage effects employment the counter-argument is moot.
  46. Profile photo of Pinkminx22
    Pinkminx22 Female 30-39
    1081 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:48 pm
    I don`t know About those burgers but, i know I make my boss a poo load of money just by cleaning teeth all day...then again my boss is a dentist and I dont make minimum wage...
  47. Profile photo of Hedkwab
    Hedkwab Male 18-29
    340 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 6:52 pm
    "Well at least their children are employed." Because they only have 1, and put them to work in a shoe factor (hut) at age 3. Employment at its best?
  48. Profile photo of frenchroast
    frenchroast Male 30-39
    446 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 7:24 pm
    Raise the price of the burger by a nickel; if it`s a good burger, people will pay. Most of the profit`s on the pop anyways.
  49. Profile photo of FoSchizle
    FoSchizle Male 18-29
    323 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 7:47 pm
    @Skine:

    Someone fell asleep in their economics class...

    Things like rent are FIXED (or in other words, SUNK) costs. They should always be ignored in the short term because there`s nothing you can do about them. In the long term, you could move to a different building with a different rent cost, but in the short term you never pay attention to sunk costs like rent or taxes. If you do, you`re going to be a bad business manager.
  50. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3150 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 7:52 pm
    Minimum wage jobs should be low.

    Min wage jobs are for the people with no skills whatsoever, eg high school students/dropouts, college student/dropouts, etc.
    Raising min wage lowers people`s initiative to become skilled workers.

    When min wage got raised to $7.25 (in my state), my mother`s wage remained the same. How is that fair? It just creates inflation.

    Now there needs to be some sort of min wage that is flexible to be adjusted to inflation, no one should disagree with that, but to say min wage needs to be raised even further is an idiocy.
  51. Profile photo of Zach82
    Zach82 Male 30-39
    319 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:15 pm
    The source for that video could not look more dubious.
  52. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    The minimum wage is the mechanism by which politicians and economists ensure they are not served meals by the uneducated or people with Down`s Syndrome and mentally challenged.

    They should make the minimum wage $200,000 pa. Then we`d only have investment bankers and cosmetic gynaecologists in the workforce. They would then pay everyone else`s social security cheques.
  53. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:49 pm
    So totally side-stepping the issue of... Can`t Live on Minimum Wage.

  54. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:49 pm
    "When min wage got raised to $7.25 (in my state), my mother`s wage remained the same. How is that fair? It just creates inflation."

    If one`s productivity is unprofitable at minimum wage, sorry chump, you just missed the poverty cut.

    If you earn close to the minimum wage, inflation caused by minimum wage increases will erode your savings helping to keep you borderline poor.

    If you earn a bit more than minimum wage, much of your education (and debt) was wasted. You social security and taxes help support the rejects that missed the poverty cut.

    If you earn enough money to afford a tax planner, you get to pay little or no tax and get your afternoon Martini served by a pretty young college grad with debt instead of an old person or a retard.
  55. Profile photo of Oldfrt
    Oldfrt Male 50-59
    747 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:51 pm
    minimun wage is too prevent america from becoming China

    While touring a dam project in china, Fredrick Hayek (I think) asked why they weren`t using more heavy equipment, rather than lots of men with shovels. He was told that they wanted to keep employment up. His response was to ask them why they didn`t give the men spoons instead of shovels.
  56. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 8:59 pm
    "So totally side-stepping the issue of... Can`t Live on Minimum Wage."

    That`s the other side effect. Minimum wage becomes the default wage for `labour`. Workers have to justify why they should be paid special extra money like to value additive people like revenue generators, people with scarce skills, and useless lazy people from the third world who are hired as a bribe to their daddy who has influence with the communist party.

    Minimum wage transfers wages from lazy domestic people to hardworking immigrants. When immigrants are not productive enough, the business goes to China, India, Indonesia, etc. where there is no minimum wage.

    It doesn`t matter that the product is made in China. The capital providing class still gets their dividends.
  57. Profile photo of Kaagan
    Kaagan Male 18-29
    1596 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:04 pm
    yeah right, making the owners look like the victims. workers are in place to cover demand. if demand goes down, less workers are needed to cover. if demand goes up, more workers are hired. thats all.

    they make more money off the worker then they are paying the worker per hour.
  58. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:16 pm
    Minimum wage in the US on most states: $7.25/hr ($1160/mo)
    Rent-Range of one-bedroom apartment in Los Angeles according to rent.com: $650-1200
    Average rent of one-bedroom apartment in Los Angeles according to craigslist: $480-3000

    Looks not-ideal but liveable to me
  59. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1038 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:42 pm
    well great..keeping people below the poverty line decreases unemployment, also decreases consumerism ergo growth for everybody. this might be a good hypothesis if there was free education and health care for everybody.
  60. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 9:55 pm
    The video makes an assumption that Carl won`t be fired regardless and the other two forced to pick his slack so the owner can pocket it. Businesses exist to create profit, not jobs. If the owner can get away with it Carl will be fired every time regardless of what the minimum wage actually is. That`s how it works in the world outside of economics classrooms.
  61. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:01 pm
    Here`s the answer to the minimum wage: Nude housekeeping
  62. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:24 pm
    This is the worst propaganda crap ever. I remember this idiot from another video, where he assumes the macroeconomic thinking of a five year old.

    This is still not even worth commenting, as any fool knows that employers aren`t throwing money out the window today by hiring unnecessary workers, hence minimum wage will only force employers to pay whoever they`re hiring today a decent wage.

    The amount of workers reflect the demand for labor, not how much money the employer has. I have a hard time understanding why iab choose to keep posting this morons home cooked quasi logic. Are you being ironic?
  63. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:32 pm
    jendrian, there are WAY more expenses than simply rent. O.O
  64. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 10:52 pm
    @LillianDulci
    Food, transportation, and maybe some utility bills are a lot? Because those are all you really need.
  65. Profile photo of clockwork208
    clockwork208 Male 30-39
    835 posts
    April 14, 2012 at 11:32 pm
    This jackass assumes that deadweight is fired and hard workers are rewarded. Anyone who has ever worked in a major corporation knows that those are rare happenstances.
  66. Profile photo of Ilikelogic
    Ilikelogic Male 40-49
    550 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 12:59 am
    Just for info:

    Luxemburg minimum wage: 10 Euro/hour =13 USD/h
    Luxemburg unemployment rate: 5.9%
    Luxemburg unemployment payments: 80% of minimum wage
    (guaranteed by the state)
  67. Profile photo of bex753
    bex753 Male 40-49
    221 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 2:14 am
    A job that pays less than you can live on forces people onto welfare support so what end up happening is society ends up subsidizing the business.

    The example is stupid anyway, I might as well say if a pull a dollar out of my ass every 10 mins I will have $6 after an hour, its nonsense
  68. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:12 am
    @OldOllie you`re funny and correct at the same time.

    "minimun wage is too prevent america from becoming China"

    Correct; it simply sends all labour based commerce and manufacturing to China. The only employment positions that are unaffected are those that carry a reasonable profit margin and must be delivered to the domestic market.

    The Chinese say "Thank you America" for all the jobs you have created over there, all the personal and government debt you now owe them to support the "American" lifestyle of your unemployed and for all the nice waterfront properties that are now owned as summer homes by wealthy Chinese industrialists. You may now clean their pools and make their beds at $7.25 an hour. Make sure you do a good job! There are plenty of other Americans where you lot come from.
  69. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:25 am
    Just let the Chinese handle those boring,low paying jobs and American get higher paying jobs that need education and provide a better lifestyle. You guys does`nt know what its like to work more then 70 hours a week just to pay for your rice.
  70. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:45 am
    "Just let the Chinese handle those boring,low paying jobs and American get higher paying jobs that need education and provide a better lifestyle."

    The Chinese have limitless capacity to absorb low to medium paying US jobs and pay their people $700 to $3000 per month. Jobs that a Chinese can`t do are getting fewer and fewer. Soon they will be doing more and more of the jobs that are well paid in the US. But at least for now, the US minimum wage and US social security/ tax burden is their biggest boost.

    The point of all my posts in this thread is that I cannot for the life of me understand why you`d want your social underclasses to sit idle drawing social security. You need to cut assistance programmes and minimum wage and recognise that some people in some parts of the country can`t be supported at utopian standards. There is no such thing as entitlement.

    America is broke on so many levels. I`m just telling you to fix it.
  71. Profile photo of FCMXD
    FCMXD Male 18-29
    181 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:02 am
    Crabes - "Just let the Chinese handle those boring,low paying jobs and American get higher paying jobs that need education and provide a better lifestyle. You guys does`nt know what its like to work more then 70 hours a week just to pay for your rice."

    Please tell me you`re being sarcastic? I didn`t know that North American college grads were flipping burgers rather than making six-figure incomes as executives because of personal choice or a kind of embargo against outsourced labor. As we all know, there are vacancies in high-paying positions all over the place willing to hire anyone who gets their 3-year piece of paper.

    As for the burger analogy, the $0.10 a burger profit is completely ridiculous. Typically as a rough guide you multiply your food cost by 3 to give you your retail price. This accounts for food cost, expenditures (e.g. wages, facilities, utilities), and profit. If minimum wage goes up, either the owner loses money or they raise prices to
  72. Profile photo of FCMXD
    FCMXD Male 18-29
    181 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:10 am
    profit margin.

    Look at the McDonald`s McDouble. It used to be the Double Cheeseburger, but then they took out one slice of processed cheese and sell it for $1.39 + tax. The Double Cheeseburger costs $1.79 + tax. Meaning the slice of processed cheese is retailing for $0.40, but if you want to add a slice of cheese, they usually charge $0.50.

    And as for labor, the restaurant needs X staff for Y customers/sales. If minimum wage goes up, they aren`t going to cut staff, because they would have slower production time and lose business. So the slowest guy gets canned and the other two get kept on staff and they hire another employee to replace him.

    Where you see it start to hurt is the positions just above minimum wage as you start to see less compensation for more work. The manager gets, say, a $2.00/hr. premium above normal staff. That premium doesn`t carry over if minimum wage goes up. So if the minimum wage goes up by a dollar, the manager is now making
  73. Profile photo of FCMXD
    FCMXD Male 18-29
    181 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:15 am
    only $1.00/hr more than his staff even though he has more responsibilities.

    In terms of unemployment, the numbers won`t change. The slow employees are fired and an equal number are hired to replace them. Ditto for the employers; they`ll simply increase prices to match their increased labor cost.
  74. Profile photo of Endom
    Endom Male 18-29
    5 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:22 am
    Wow, what a fail video. Typical ignorant business-folk thinking their libertarian view trumps all.

    Any self-sustaining company should make just as much in revenue as their employee`s wage, if not around 75% at the very least. And that should only be calculated after generating the entire company`s revenue, not on what the individual worker can generate.

    If this aforementioned dippoo burger joint was pulling in revenue equal to 40% of their employee`s wage, how would they be able to sustain themselves as a business, I wonder? They either need very low overhead costs, or other multiple sources of generating revenue.

    This video is also BLATANTLY not taking into regard the economic boon of increasing minimum wage. If lower-wage folk had more money, you`d think they`d be willing to buy more burgers, amirite?

    And guess what else? Lower-wage folk (which make up a massive amount of the U.S. population at the moment) would generate more tax revenue if they g
  75. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:45 am
    Christ, not this guy and his ridiculously-uninformed, self-publicising opinion pieces again. And he`s still wearing the same "black-and-white porno" outfit as the last time; even his skin is a shade of grey. Did he film these all in the one day, or does he just never change his clothes?
  76. Profile photo of Samsquanch
    Samsquanch Male 30-39
    792 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:47 am
    No...what a business will do if he`s forced to increase minimum wage is increase his profit margin to cover the cost.
    So...If Bob was earning the company $2/hour when he was earning $8/hour, the manager will increase his prices to allow him to still earn $2/hour at $9.50/hour wages.
    Hello inflation.
  77. Profile photo of MacGuffin
    MacGuffin Female 30-39
    2602 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:47 am
    The source for that video could not look more dubious.

    Agreed. Though I would point out "the source" and the "the person that posted this video and several others exactly like it" are one in the same individual.
  78. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 5:59 am
    Draculya:
    "You need to cut assistance programmes and minimum wage and recognise that some people in some parts of the country can`t be supported at utopian standards."
    -------

    utopian standards?!? Minimum wage is so low and the cost of living is so high, that you have to live in poverty. I know a person who is educated but can`t find work. They are working two part time, minimum wage jobs (because that`s all that`s out there now) and have to live off of food banks etc. just to get by.

    If you get rid of minimum wage, what happens is that all the employers will drop wages down to the least amount they can and poverty will be so widespread that people will be starving to death. Food banks won`t be able to keep up with demand. Crime will increase a million times over.

    The fact is, employers are greedy and will only pay what they have to pay.
  79. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 7:12 am
    "Minimum wage in the US on most states: $7.25/hr ($1160/mo)
    Rent-Range of one-bedroom apartment in Los Angeles according to rent.com: $650-1200
    Average rent of one-bedroom apartment in Los Angeles according to craigslist: $480-3000

    Looks not-ideal but liveable to me"

    You`re crazy if you think even the low end of that is `livable`. Unless the person has no electricity or gas, walks to work, and hunts their own food.
  80. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6667 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 7:16 am
    Is this guy`s target audience the slow-witted?
  81. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 7:47 am
    Haha, offer them a raise! Yeah, if you are earning minimum wage your employer views you as a replaceable slag, no matter how hard you work. Republicans are under the impression that people who work hard are rewarded, and the richest are the most hard working. Bullpoo!
  82. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 8:08 am

    If earning more money is so bad, why are billionaires so greedy?
  83. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 9:25 am
    "I know a person who is educated but can`t find work."

    What is he educated in? Maple Syrup?

    Just kidding. This may not apply to your friend, but it makes me mental when people say "I have a college degree and I can`t find work!" More often than not, I ask whet they have a degree in, and it turns out to be some liberal art, or something ridiculous like paleontology or something.

    NO poo YOU CAN`T FIND A JOB!
  84. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36216 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @ Aburnjunky - A friends wife got her masters in business administration. Two years she was unable to find work until she finally got a job as an assistant manager at a McDonalds. Yes, the liberal arts and history and literature degrees won`t get you work, but the other "stable/reliable" degrees like teaching and nursing and business are no guarantee.

    You hear about a shortage of nures, but many are unemplyed. The only one I know took 18 months to find work and it`s really low pay at a nursing home.
    Teachers? Those are being laid off, not hired.
    Business degree? The middle-management that got pink-slipped. Starbucks alone laid off all thier regional managers, district managers, etc. My friend Patrick used to work for them. 3 years unemployed now.
  85. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 11:19 am
    What a steaming pile of propagandistic nonsense. The far right made the very same arguments when minimum wage was first proposed. They said it would ruin businesses; hurt the laborer; bankrupt entrepreneurs; yadda yadda yadda.

    I`ve got a concept that eludes you, AntEconomist. Why not raise the price of each burger 10 cents? Personally, I`d much rather live in a country with slightly more expensive fast food and a lower class that makes enough money to live on as opposed to a country of working poor and 99-Cent Value Menus.

    If AntEconomist thinks a completely unregulated form of capitalism is utopia, why doesn`t he pack up his bags and move to a Third World country? No pesky minimum wage laws, no child labor laws, and no worker safety regulations to get in the way of the law of the jungle he seems to tirelessly advocate.
  86. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 1:07 pm
    What a steaming pile of propagandistic nonsense. The far right made the very same arguments when minimum wage was first proposed. They said it would ruin businesses; hurt the laborer; bankrupt entrepreneurs; yadda yadda yadda.
    You`ve never actually paid attention to the minority youth unemployment rate over the past 40 years, have you? I can only surmise that you don`t give a rat`s @$$ about them.
  87. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 1:17 pm
    @OldOllie: Oh, cry me a river of crocodile tears. I`m sure you openly weep every night thinking about the unemployment rate of America`s black youth.

    Seriously, Ollie, get a little history under your belt. The mill owners in Massachusetts tried to make the same arguments about 8- and 9-year-old kids: Those advocating child labor laws, they said, were seeking to destroy poor families by taking away the oh-so-important rights of children to work.

    Sorry, Ollie. Not buying it for a second.
  88. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    antagonizer-"if you have 3 shifts that need to be filled, you need three people"

    Obviously you`ve never owned or run a business. Simply put: the cost of labor becomes too high, the labor force will be cut, the remainder will be required to take up the slack.

    thubanstar-"Can`t Live on Minimum Wage"

    And you`re not supposed to. Minimum Wage jobs are for high school students learning about working for a living and getting a little extra money. If you`re 40 and only making minimum wage, the problem is not with the employer or the job market.

    An employee MUST make the company money. When he/she gets to the point where they he/she fails to do so, they are eliminated.
  89. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    He forgot to mention that now that he has to pay the workers more and thus the company will see less profit they most likely have to raise the selling cost of their products. this leads to an overall increase in the cost of living and thus makes the minimum wage just as crappy as before but now with inflation!
  90. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31797 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm
    vv Quite right @CoyoteKing! And all those already making more than minimum, whose wages did NOT go up? THEY get to pay more for everything too! So their earnings effectively DROP.
    Not nice!
  91. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    People should be paid for the jobs they do, not $10/hr to flip burgers and drop fries.

    Lower wages for teenagers jobs, = higher wages for other jobs.
  92. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 3:48 pm
    Sorry, Ollie. Not buying it for a second.
    Fine. Stay stupid. See if I care.
  93. Profile photo of VirtualParty
    VirtualParty Male 18-29
    787 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:24 pm
    I wish I were born 50 years ago.
  94. Profile photo of guillotine
    guillotine Male 18-29
    17 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:27 pm
    This video assumes all business owners reward workers purely on the merits of their work or reward workers at all, which is complete garbage. Everyone knows someone who got a job because they knew the right person. Everyone knows someone who works harder than anyone else and gets screwed over. The real reason raising minimum wage hurts workers is because the cost of living would go up right along with the minimum wage. No business, especially larger businesses, would be affected at all because no CEO would allow profits to be impacted for any reason. Cost to produce product goes up, cost of product goes up.
  95. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    "minimum wage over here is $15.51hr with 5.2% unemployment rates
    Selous Male, 30-39, Australia "

    That just means inflation caught up with your last minimum wage increase.
  96. Profile photo of eovogt
    eovogt Male 18-29
    197 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 4:57 pm
    The only reason you can buy that $1 cheeseburger is because of the minimum wage, so stop complaining. If you dont like getting paid $10 an hour do something that is of value and make some real money.
  97. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 6:24 pm
    yes yes it does...
  98. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 6:25 pm
    @Ollie: Don`t be such a grumpus. There`s a whole world of ponies out there to enjoy. =^.^=
  99. Profile photo of Darkolin
    Darkolin Male 30-39
    54 posts
    April 15, 2012 at 9:10 pm
    Where the drat are you getting a 10 cent hamburger?
  100. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 6:13 am
    @Samsquanch

    "No...what a business will do if he`s forced to increase minimum wage is increase his profit margin to cover the cost."

    For some businesses, and their customers, that may be a problem: the businesses where the labour costs are a high proportion of the cost of the finished product.

    I can`t imagine this applies to all products. For those that have a small percentage of labour cost, the price rise would be minimal.

    And the implied suggestion that the benefit to the worker will be robbed in the end by prices going up at the same rate as their pay is simplistic: it will only hurt them if the prices of the things they personally need to pay for go up, and I have yet to see anyone crunch the numbers to establish that, for instance, food, shelter and utilities have a large proportion of labour cost.
  101. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5884 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 6:38 am
    Darkolin-"Where the drat are you getting a 10 cent hamburger?"

    Please don`t vote. At no point in the video was a 10 cent hamburger mentioned.

    We`d explain it to you, but your head would probably explode.
  102. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Minumum wage is not just a thing that should be raised/lowered at a whim, it`s set where it is because of the market and the economy. I`m not saying it`s not low, I`m just saying it`s not very simple to just change minimum wage.

    The bigger problem is that wages haven`t remained consistent with inflation. If this were the case, people wouldn`t be complaining about this, likely.
  103. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    April 16, 2012 at 9:22 am
    *minimum dammit.

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