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Date: 03/22/12 05:30 PM

151 Responses to Trayvon Martin Case Sparks Debate Over Law

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 2:05 pm
    Link: Trayvon Martin Case Sparks Debate Over Law - `Stand your ground` laws are now in question. Is it right to use deadly force if you feel threatened?
  2. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:36 pm
    What makes a threat though? Kid was going home and the ADULT night watch hero had to create a situation when there wasn`t one. End result: Kid`s dead and the guy gets away with it. I seriously hope Karma kicks this guy in the ass hard.
  3. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36199 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Typical. Demand anwers from government, then shout too loud for them to give you any actual information. Afterall, you don`t want them to prove you have no case, or are acting from ignorance.

    The family wants "Justice" ? No, they want revenge/retaliation. And I understand why they do but the media is totally irrisponsable, promoting this as a race/based crime, never reporting the whole story, just enough to make it sell!
  4. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    Yay... question everything!
  5. Profile photo of EmagehtmaI
    EmagehtmaI Male 18-29
    187 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    Well, depends on the definition of "threatened". If someone is threatening me or my family, and I have the ability to protect myself and my loved ones, I will, no matter what the law says. I don`t think anyone is dumb enough to think that the definition of "threatened" can be extended to "black kid walking hone with a bag of skittles".
  6. Profile photo of EmagehtmaI
    EmagehtmaI Male 18-29
    187 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:58 pm
    Kid also looked pretty harmless. I`m sure PART of that was the media selectively picking which photos to show, but still, its hard to imagine that kid illegally downloading a movie, let alone threaten someone with bodily harm. By all accounts, the kid was walking home, minding his own business when this Zimmerman dude followed him down several streets.
  7. Profile photo of RuralNinja
    RuralNinja Male 18-29
    519 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 5:59 pm
    Every expert says this shouldn`t have been applied as a stand your ground law. The law doesn`t need to be questioned. The police need to be questioned. Especially the arriving officer, who has a record of letting people involved in violent acts like this walk free.
  8. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 6:03 pm
    I think that the number of lives these laws save outweigh the number of "innocent" lives that they take.
  9. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 6:08 pm
    The "skateboarding" incident that`s briefly mentioned?
    A white guy was in a park with his little girl/ A black man came across the street to yell at some kids who were skateboarding on a tennis/basketball court. The white guy told him to mind his own business, there`s no signs that say `no skateboards`.
    The black man went back to his house, got his pistol, came back to the park and threatened the white guy with it. A scuffle ensued and the white guy was shot through the heart (right in front of his little girl).
    The black man used the `Stand Your Ground` defense.
    Funny! THAT didn`t make national headlines, eh?

    This is race-baiting plain and simple. Obama and the MSM want to rile-up the `race wars` in an effort to re-elect him. Period. Expect to see a LOT more like this before November.
  10. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    @keyh, I agree wholeheartedly. In Canada we`re not even allowed to use harsh language if a robber tries to kill us! I wish I were joking.

    @RuralNinja: I agree with you too! It DOES seem like the police made several mistakes here. It could very well be that Zimmerman IS guilty! It`s just that I haven`t seen enough actual proof, just a lot of speculation & rhetoric.
  11. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 6:33 pm
    "Obama and the MSM want to rile-up the `race wars` in an effort to re-elect him."

    Seriously, stop it with this conspiracy bullpoo.
  12. Profile photo of mcboozerilla
    mcboozerilla Male 30-39
    646 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 6:33 pm
    People with guns (and I don`t mean hunters) usually have acute inferiority complexes. Guns make them feel powerful because they can`t find success in life. I bet they were usually abused and belittled as children. But power isn`t the ability to take away the life of someone else, or to harm them; power is the ability to improve the lives of others. Everyone has that ability, they often just don`t see it in themselves.
  13. Profile photo of JuggaloReign
    JuggaloReign Male 18-29
    55 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:14 pm
    Stop stop stop with all the gun bashing. This isn`t the problem and neither is the law. The law doesn`t allow you to kill innocent people. The law gives you the right to protect yourself without fear of legal repercussions and the firearm allows you to do it. The only issue here is wether or not he was in immediate danger of grave bodily harm. In this case I believe he was not. The law also reflects this! ALL castle doctrines include a clause that you are not allow to cause a situation in order to provoke a response with the intention of killing the other person in self defense. That is exactly what he did. He provoked a situation by confronting the kid and chasing after him. The law reflects this and makes this an act of murder and illegal. The only issue here is the police not enforcing the law. Not guns or the law itself. How can people not see this? This is common sense stuff.
  14. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:20 pm
    Common Sense is rare these days @JuggaloReign, not only at IAB.

    It`s always easier to shout slogans than to think. Hense `liberalism`...
  15. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:32 pm
    This has nothing to do with feeling threatened. The shooter was a racist prick who just ASSUMED this kid was going to do something bad, all because of the color of his skin. He should be thrown in prison and left to rot.
  16. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:33 pm
    "It`s always easier to shout slogans than to think."

    Says the guy who thinks Obama is using this case to stoke up racial unrest for the election.
  17. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:36 pm
    Gerry is completely correct on this.

    The `facts` don`t matter anymore in the media. It`s about selling you emotion, creating `news` commentary, instead of reporting the facts dispassionately, honestly and fairly.

    There are at least two sides to every story, all that`s being spoon-fed, to the public, right now is one-sided claptrap.
  18. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 7:45 pm
    "Stop stop stop with all the gun bashing. This isn`t the problem and neither is the law."

    Logic fail.
  19. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3147 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 8:15 pm
    JuggaloReign is dead on.
    The only thing that needs to be questioned are the police.

    I don`t think the neighborhood watch guy had enough reason to shoot, but the fact that the victim`s family want him arrested and immediately convicted without due process is equally disturbing.

    I`d bet if the family gets their wish of no due process, and then due process is taken away from them, they`ll cry racism.
  20. Profile photo of Neyro
    Neyro Male 18-29
    148 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 8:27 pm
    If I think someone is going to do me grievous bodily harm, to the point of my demise... you can be damned sure I am going to shoot to kill.

    Now, whether or not this case was justifiable or not remains to be seen. Personally I think it was some trigger happy schmuck looking for a confrontation, but who knows.
  21. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 8:29 pm
    PsychGeek, it must be truly subline to be able to pull facts known only to God Himself straight out of your @$$.

    Poor benighted soul that I am, all I know is that some kid was walking through a gated community at night where he had no business, and he got shot. Now the professional race hustlers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are accusing a man of being a racist and a murderer without a shred of evidence to contradict the findings of the police who investigated the case and found no grounds to file charges.
  22. Profile photo of mandingo3519
    mandingo3519 Male 30-39
    192 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    @ PsychGeek congratulations. you have bitten into the media hype. Why else would they accent "black" in the victims description except to imply this was a race shooting. Where was the shooters trial that determine the shooter was racist??? old but case in point remember Rodney King??? it was reported as a race beating even though he resisted arrest. now remember Reginald Denny?? none of his attackers was charged with a hate crime (that i can find) so congrats on jumping on the race band wagon. I do not believe the shooter was in self defense, but i dont believe it was race motivated
  23. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 8:49 pm
    @mandingo: one of the 4 officers was himself black, in the King case. And yes, he deserved every whallop he got.
    I agree @Neyro, it might well be true that Zimmerman did break the law, but the FACTS and EVIDENCE don`t support that yet, and screaming `race race` isn`t "proof" of anyhting... except bias.
    @OldOllie: Martin did have a right to be there, but beyond that it`s all speculation. Claiming that he was "gunned down in cold blood" is fictional, to say the least!
  24. Profile photo of skine
    skine Male 18-29
    719 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:07 pm
    "I don`t think the neighborhood watch guy had enough reason to shoot, but the fact that the victim`s family want him arrested and immediately convicted without due process is equally disturbing."

    Everything I`ve seen has them saying that they want him arrested, followed by a trial.

    If it can be proven to be self defense, then so be it. But unless the state presses charges and he is arrested, there isn`t going to be a trial.
  25. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:12 pm
    I might agree @skine, but arresting someone without "just cause" is ripe for abuse. Since "due process" is infested with lawyers, I personally would rather NOT trust the "justice system" to rule over my fate.

    As I said below VV when a black man shot a white man (in front of his daughter) the MSM IGNORED the story. Why is this story "different" eh?
  26. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2346 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:22 pm
    IN THIS CASE:

    shoots little white kid: might be or might not be in jail

    shoots little black kid: might be or might not be in jail


    race may go along way, but in the end don`t ever question your right to stand your ground.
  27. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:23 pm
    "As I said below VV when a black man shot a white man (in front of his daughter) the MSM IGNORED the story. Why is this story "different" eh?"

    You`re going to have to link to this story so we know what you`re talking about.

    BUT if that`s the way it played out and the shooter got away with it, doesn`t that prove that the stand your ground law is too vague?
  28. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:40 pm
    Facts of the case:
    Chasing the victim.
    Saying "drating Coons".
    Getting out of his car to chase the boy.
    Police told witnesses to correct their statements when they said the boy called for help.
    The police didn`t test him for drugs as required, they tested the victim.
    The shooters version of events (that the boy attacked him from behind when he got out of the car) matches no accounts, including the 911 call, where he says he`s chasing him, and the police ask him to stop.
    Victim was a 14 year old boy with some skittles.

    THE SHOOTER WAS NEVER ARRESTED.

    In the case 5 Cats says is "the same", 2 adults had an actual confrontation, and the only reason dooley is having "his day in court" whilst in this case he "isn`t" is because that guy GOT ARRESTED.

    So the drating OPPOSITE of this case.
  29. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:40 pm
    @skypirate, I agree, IF properly applied, it`s a really good law! The question of course is: WAS it valid in this case? idk, we`ll see.

    @FoolsPrussia: I outlined the facts, the cases aren`t really that similar except that both shooters claimed the "castle law" in their defense. The Zimmerman case is much "better" than the skateboard case (better meaning closer to the word of law, eh?).

    Sorry, my efforts to find the case are being flooded with this case.
    It was on CNN just the other day! AC360 spent a lot of time on it. Honestly, my recap is just what the CNN News presented.
  30. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:48 pm
    Seriously the only thing all the typical people in this thread, all the "I`m not racist but..." crowd are on the side of the child shooter who never got arrested.

    Those facts are not in contention.
    He chased and then shot an unarmed teenage boy and is walking free.

    The parents are calling for the ARREST, and you think that`s taking things too far, you blame the parents and the news for talking about it?

    And in absolutely drating topsy-turvy world, you compare it to a black guy who DID get arrested for shooting an adult in a fight?

    The POINT is the lack of arrest and investigation and trial.
  31. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:49 pm
    Oh, @Baalthy makes an appearance!
    Fact: Bloody damage to the front and back of Zimmerman`s head
    Fact: Grass stains on the back of Zimmerman`s shirt
    Fact: Witnesses saying Martin was ON TOP of Zimmerman while they were fighting
    FACT: Martin`s own girlfriend says he "lost him" while running away.

    But you,ve never let actual facts change your mind in the past, have you @baalthy?

    FACT: in the `Skateboard` case, the black man killed a white man.
    FACT: he went back to his house to get his pistol, then returned to confront the victem
    FACT: The MSM did NOT make this story `front page, nation wide` news.
    FACT: The cases are not "the same" but "similar" and yet treated entirely differently by the MSM.

    I`ve never once said Zimmerman is "innocent" and idk about the other case either! It is you (Baalthy) who is bigoted and biased if you imagine there is currently an " correct answer" to either c
  32. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:54 pm
    Here`s your dumb ass comparison case 5 Cats.

    This case: Man NOT arrested for chasing and shooting child.
    Your case: Man arrested for shooting man in during fight, and successfully claimed self defense.

    Hopefully you`ll now realize how stupid that comparison is and go to supporting the parents call for an investigation.
  33. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:56 pm
    At LEAST 2 deceptions in your "facts".

    His girlfriend said Treyvon was pushed and his headset fell off.
    His girlfriend said he was being chased.
    The cases were treated completely differently by the police, which is why it is making front page news.
    Witnesses say Treyvon was calling for help.
    Witnesses were saying they were being ignored by police.

    If the black man was NEVER ARRESTED, as in this case, you know if the case were ACTUALLY similar, it would be front page.

    It isn`t, because it isn`t.
  34. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 9:57 pm
    "walking free"
    So, @Baalthy you have PROOF that this is the case? That Martin NEVER did what Zimmerman says, proof of this?
    In other words, NO! You do not.

    He chased and then shot an unarmed teenage boy
    Again, @Baalthy, you have proof of this? That the gunshot was NOT the result of a struggle? That Martin never attempted to grab the pistol while Zimmerman was dazed from his head trauma (which is a fact!). Eh?
    I`m talking PROOF! 100% bonafide unimpeachable truth! You got that? No? Then guess what:

    YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE!

    As for the other case: why didn`t the MSmM blanket-cover THAT case? THAT is my question, that`s the only "similarity" I call into doubt.

    Unlike YOU, I am able to admit that if further evidence arises, I might be wrong. YOU however are a kool-aid gulping idiot, until you prove otherwise.
  35. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:02 pm
    His girlfriend said Treyvon was pushed and his headset fell off.
    OH! You were there? His GF was there? There is NO other possible reason for one`s headphones falling off? Like, for example, Trayvon PUSHING Zimmerman? Oh no, that`s impossible! MOOT!

    Witnesses say Treyvon was calling for help.
    Again, you were there? SOME witnesses say it was Trayvon, others say they don`t know. Actual investigation will no doubt reveal who was crying for help that day, but unless you have better "evidence" than the cops have right now? We`ll have to wait.
  36. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:05 pm
    "He chased and then shot an unarmed teenage boy

    Again, @Baalthy, you have proof of this?"

    Police: "Are you chasing him"
    Zimmerman: "Yeah"

    Unless you`re saying his shot himself, Zimmerman had the gun.

    Self defense is an affirmitive defense: The burden of proof when you kill someone is on you, not them.
  37. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:06 pm
    By "grab the pistol" I mean: grab it from it`s holster or wherever Zimmerman had it.
    There`s not one account of a man with a pistol chasing a boy. NOT ONE!
    So: it`s equally likely at this point that Zimmerman didn`t even produce the pistol! Than he did.
    Until further evidence? ygiagam.
    THAT @baalthy dear, is the difference between the two cases.
    Case one: suspect clearly threatened victem with firearm
    Case two: unknown.
    Facts, deal with them or stfu!
  38. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:10 pm
    "He chased and then shot an unarmed teenage boy"

    I`ve never argued against the "chase" part. Ever. It was wrong and I`ll say that every time.
    The "shot" part? You have some proof?

    Burden of Proof? In this case? You`re over-reaching here @Baalth, it`s a completely different kettle of fish...
  39. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:22 pm
    The man goes to court now, the cop gets investigated. Progress is happening in the case.

    Some people seem to think we should just take that fat-head cowboy wanna be vigilante and curb stomp him. That`s not the way our justice system works. He gets his day in court, and there is evidence in the case such as 911 phone calls etc.
  40. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:24 pm
    "The "shot" part? You have some proof? "

    Are you genuinely suggesting Treyvon Martin was NOT shot?

    Or that 140 pound Treyvon attacked 240 pound Zimmerman, wrestled his gun FROM ITS HOLSTER, then got it taken off him, THEN got shot, WITHOUT being attacked, even though it is beyond dispute he was chased.

    This seems so plausible you`re arguing AGAINST any arrest, investigation, against the testing, all even though self defense is an affirmative defense requiring the shooter PROVE it happened the way he said, NOT the other way round.

    In this case: Lack of evidence makes this LEGALLY a case where Zimmerman shot Treyvon, and cannot prove he had cause to do so.
  41. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 10:38 pm
    you`re arguing AGAINST any... investigation, against the testing
    NO! You obviouslty haven`t followed my comments over many threads @Baalth: I welcome an investigation! I demand testing! Notice I`ve omitted "arrest"? Because an arrest must be based on FACTS, not a petition!
    Are you genuinely suggesting Treyvon Martin was NOT shot?
    You`re just being obtrusive now @Baalthy. He was "shot" but by whom? Did Zimmerman pull the trigger or was there a struggle for the firearm in which it went off? You have 100% PROOF of anything? No? Neither do I!
    Again: your guess is as good as mine. (ygiagam)

    When the tests are done and they say the gun was: <1 foot, 3 feet, >6 feet away from Martin when he was shot, THAT will provide some evidence! Until then...
  42. Profile photo of Neagle
    Neagle Male 30-39
    1407 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:01 pm
    Crucial facts are missing or being withheld. Standard procedure dictates you bring the suspect in to the station and call in the DA to make a decision. Pass the buck as it were. Even if the suspect was released he could always be arrested later. I wondering if Zimmerman is/was an informant? Even if that were the case I find it hard that a detective would protect his/her asset this way. The apparent lack of any investigation by the DA is suspicious and warrants investigation.
  43. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:08 pm
    5cats, you have to be the biggest moron on here. Ask yourself -- had this retarded wannabe hero not chased this boy who was walking home, would he still be alive? I think we know that answer. A lanky 140lb kid vs a guy 100lbs bigger lol. You gotta be a fool to think he was assaulting him. Oh there`s grass stains! He must`ve been getting attacked while on his back!

    You do know this "watchman" had followed other neighbors home to their doors and even knocked on them? Harassing the very people he`s supposed to be watching for? You know this, right? The facts are he chased a skinny kid and caused a confrontation. A confrontation that led to him shooting a 140lb kid. Get your head out of your ass and wake up. This guy deserves life in jail. Those "coons" will rape him to death.
  44. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:09 pm
    This is f*cking retarded, if somebody threatens my life I`m going to kill them end of story. I`m not saying that`s what happened exactly in this case, but they don`t need to mess with the laws.
  45. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:09 pm
    Reread. Pay attention. Affirmative defense. Burden of proof.

    Why is it whenever understanding facts is involved your brain turns to ass-gravy?

    You: "His GF says..."
    Me: "She also says.."
    You: "So what? She wasn`t there!"

    You: "This black guy got arrested!"
    Me: "The White guy didn`t..."
    You: "They`re the same!"

    You: "I personally would rather NOT trust the justice system to rule over my fate."

    You`ve made up several stories nobody has claimed.
    Zimmerman didn`t say the gun went off accidentally, he said he shot him.

    Zimmerman`s statement that you give equal plausibility, does not say he chased him, which you already accept.

    Police did not follow any standard procedures, including testing for drugs/alcohol. He should have been arrested, and had to have posted bail. He did not.
  46. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:11 pm
    That is pure speculation @Neagal BUT it might explain a thing or two.
    And, since that`s all I or others are doing from the safety of our computers, it`s a valid addition to the question. thx.

    And thx to the OP (Kitty9) for the update, I hope IAB follows this so we can continue to debate & learn. Something positive (however small) from a tragic event, eh?
  47. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:20 pm
    Zimmerman also told police he had no police record. This was untrue. He has a history of violence and trouble with law enforcement.

    (Considering your buddy Beck, tried to push opinion against Treyvon for being suspended from school once...)

    Police told Treyvon`s family he had no record. Still untrue.

    Police said they believed Zimmerman`s account. Not true. (The police account does not match Zimmerman`s).

    The Dept says they don`t have enough for an arrest, which is not true.

    Police changed the accounts of witnesses who found in favour of Treyvon, telling witnesses that said Treyvon was calling out for help that he wasn`t.

    Zimmerman called Treyvon a "drating coon" in the 911 call.

    These are the reasons it`s in the news.
    These are the reasons for the outrage.
  48. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:23 pm
    I`m all like nice and then POW! @Swoop and @Baalthy come bringing insults and hate.

    Oh there`s grass stains! He must`ve been getting attacked while on his back!
    That`s right @swoop! He got bloody and grass stains by NOT being attacked and NOT being on his back while Martin attacked him, which is what an eyewitness said. Obviously! It`s part of a vast cover-up! & etc.
    He rubbed himself on the grass and banged his head on the cement sidewalk to fake an attack! Even though NO ONE IS SAYING THIS it must be true!
    @Baalthy:
    Zimmerman`s statement that you give equal plausibility, does not say he chased him
    You have a link to his police statement? Please produce it or STFU!
    The 911 call HE SAYS he`s chasing him. Where do I dispute that?
    Zimmerman didn`t say the gun went off accidentally, he said he shot him.
    Please to produce his actual audio of saying this, or the police report (un edited) or, you know..
  49. Profile photo of BostonKaiser
    BostonKaiser Male 40-49
    1177 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:23 pm
    Unfortunately, there are only 2 people that know exactly what happened, and one of them is dead. Lacking any eye witnesses, meaning people who actually saw it happen, not heard it, I fear the truth may never come out.
  50. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:30 pm
    Why is it whenever understanding facts is involved your brain turns to ass-gravy?
    Odd, I was wondering that about you, but I am TOO POLITE to mention it...
    Zimmerman also told police he had no police record. This was untrue. He has a history of violence and trouble with law enforcement.
    He had ONE charge which was EXPUNGED! Expunged means "it`s as if it never happened" ok? You have more? Show it! or stfu.
    Considering your buddy Beck
    Produce evidence I`ve quoted or referenced something I`ve never read. OR that he`s "my buddy" Or stfu.
    (The police account does not match Zimmerman`s)
    Produce un-edited police account, which I have never referenced or quoted, or stfu.
    Police changed the accounts of witnesses who found in favour of Treyvon
    ONE witness now clains this. Produce PROOF or... stfu.
    Notice the trend here @Baalthy?
  51. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:31 pm
    @BostonKaiser: THAT is what I have been saying from day 1!
    Unlike SOME PEOPLE... I prefer "equal justice for all".
    NOT: We think you guilty so hang!
  52. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:34 pm
    The `facts` don`t matter anymore in the media. It`s about selling you emotion, creating `news` commentary, instead of reporting the facts dispassionately, honestly and fairly.

    There are at least two sides to every story, all that`s being spoon-fed, to the public, right now is one-sided claptrap.
    Crakrjak, this from the guy that just today asserted that Islam is attempting to usurp western values from the inside. Belgium the first casualty of Islam by 2020, the UK speaking Arabic by 2030, and other random right-wing scaremongering horsewank.

    To turn your own oft-quoted assertion against you, as you like to say, "Physician, heal thy f*cking self."
  53. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:38 pm
    Also, as I`ve asserted before, no surprise that those supporting and defending this vigilante`s actions on shooting an unarmed black child are the usual suspects.

    White right-wing conservative Christian males.
  54. Profile photo of RoboPatton
    RoboPatton Male 30-39
    2424 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:46 pm
    hey cool davymid managed to squeeze in politics and religion, bravo! Can`t believe we got to page 3 before it happened...
  55. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:46 pm
    @davymid: The Koran tells Muslims to do just that: usurp their culture from the inside by moving to their nation and reproducing Muslim babies aplenty. Add to that killing ANY who convert to another religion and presto! Muslim Majority!

    There are two sides to this story. You`ve heard Zimmerman`s side? Seen the police report? No? Then... which side have you seen? Oh, ONE side.

    random LEFT-wing scaremongering horsewank
    fify!

    this vigilante`s actions on shooting an unarmed black child
    Ah! @davymid! You are judge jury and executioner yourself! YOU KNOW what happened for a fact! YOU alone know why we who fight for equality under the law resist hanging Zimmerman from the nearest tree! All Hail! (further RUDE comments deleted by myself)
    White right-wing conservative Christian males.
    One out of three, DO TRY again... idiot.
  56. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:49 pm
    hey cool davymid managed to squeeze in politics and religion
    I know @RoboPatton! Even the MSM hasn`t drug religion into this! Yet...

    For nitpickers sake: two out of four, but he`s still an idiot.
  57. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:52 pm
    "I`m detecting some self deletion here"
    No @davy, I resisted going on and on about your penchant for fascism all by myself, it was never posted, idk what you`re "on about" and why your posting accusing me of deleting posts has been deleted...
  58. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:53 pm
    Hey, gimme a break here, I`m a lot of things but I`m not an idiot.

    Anyways, just pointing out that for all the banter about government control, the right wing are the guys that would give the shooter guy a break.

    You know. For shooting dead a black kid armed with a bag of Skittles.
  59. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 22, 2012 at 11:56 pm
    vv and/or why it was deleted.
    As for "penchant for fascism" it was rude, so I cut it out, I was nice, or trying to be at least.
    NOW I`m a-scared to edit my typo (and/or) for fear you`l accuse me further.
    Are you taking lessons from @Baalth? Changing the subject when you`re PROVEN wrong?
    Stay on topic, stick to the facts, that`s all I ask. Oh and stop with the insults too, that`s be nice.
  60. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:04 am
    "For shooting dead a black kid"
    Again, you have PROOF Zimmerman pulled the trigger? Oh, HE said "I shot him" but every other thing he said is a lie. i c! Easy-peasy!

    Yes @davy, the "right wing" are fair and consistant with their views. WE don`t depend on the MSM to tell us what to think.
    Do I believe the black guy in the skateboard shooting is guilty? idk, I`ll wait until the so-called "justice system" has gone it`s course.
    My "opinion"? What does that matter? Or change? The facts of the two cases are as different as Strontium is from Yttrium!
    LINKY! (hint #38 and #39)
    The bag of skittles has no relevance in the case. Did Martin aggresively attack Zimmerman or not? Weight, age, height, penis size? ALL THOSE THINGS DON`T MATTER!
    Get it?
  61. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:08 am
    davymid: Islamic imams are preaching the very `population bomb` that I discussed in another post. They are telling muslim`s that it is their duty to have as many children as possible, so that they will be in the position to take over governments and spread sharia law.

    Do you think I make this up ? That I imagine it from nothing ?

    A few minutes of internet research and you`d find, for yourself, that it`s not "random right-wing scaremongering horsewank."

    Finally, Read the police report, Here

    It makes it very clear that Zimmerman had been assaulted, he had a bloody nose, bloodied back of the head and wet grass stained back. No one that saw the confrontation said they saw Zimmerman unholster his gun. Trayvon seen the gun and tried to take it and they wrestled for control of it
  62. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:17 am
    FINALLY! The actual Police report!
    So: Zimmerman was cuffed and taken to the police station.
    He WAS questioned by officers other than those on the scene.

    This is golden, and I don`t mean only for Zimmerman:
    IF Martin was shot in the back, (which no report has suggested) that`s bad for him.
    There WAS a holster (which I`d just assumed until now) so barring any witness accounts of Zimmerman drawing the gun, it remains unknown who pulled it out.
    Waiting for @Crackr to clean up his post(s) (and those others to chime in with their rhetoric)
  63. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:20 am
    * By "bad" I mean he`s guilty as drat! If Martin was shot in the back (which NO report has suggested btw...) that`s IT! He`s guilty.

    Until that is established as a fact: the 5Cats Jury remains OUT. In my mind, he`s not guilty, nor is he innocent.
  64. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:32 am
    davymid: You`ve jumped to conclusions here and seriously I can`t blame you for doing so. All you`ve been fed by the media, as well as most everyone else, is a lopsided false narrative.

    The `news` has completely ignored and not reported on the fact that Zimmerman was on the ground, bloodied, and fighting for his life.

    Also, no one is questioning why Trayvon didn`t just go home, just a few yards away, no one is questioning why he was acting shady, put on his hoodie, tried to loose Zimmerman and then attack him.

    There is a good reason why the police didn`t charge Zimmerman and it has nothing to do with race. Zimmerman`s account of the event coincides with most of the witnesses and the evidence at the scene. Everything else you`ve heard has went through the media spin cycle so many times now, that most people believe Zimmerman just pulled his gun and shot Trayvon, for no reason, standing up, while he was holding a bag of skittles.
  65. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:46 am
    Well said @Crackr! "While holding a bag of skittles"
    lolz! I thought Skittles came in a pouch! I must be racist.

    Why does the anti-Zimmerman group ignore what the girlfriend said?
    Martin "lost him". Ok? At that point what prevents him from running straight home (which is what I would have done at age 17 OR 47!)?

    I keep repeating, but few seem to listen: there`s more to this case than the MSM is feeding you!

    Extra thanks for @CrackJak for finally finding the goddam police report!
  66. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 3:31 am
    Ok let me get this straight, trying not to fall into any assumptions here:

    So there`s a self appointed watchman, who was told not to follow, confronts a kid half his size, gets into a fight and somebody dies because of this.

    Didn`t somebody mention that provoking a fight in which you have to kill to defend your life is not protected by the "stand your ground" law? How can anyone miss that`s exactly what happened?

    I`m sorry but even if it was self defence, he provoked it. The police report says so, the girlfriend on the phone (a witness of sorts, mind you) say so, everyone involved seems to agree on at least this bit. The other part is that although the report doesn`t say how he shot him, it says he confesses to have shot him.

    So... This is pretty simple to me, corner a guy and brandish a lethal weapon, there will be a fight. Sorry 5Cats and CrakrJak, no skin colour, no looking at both sides necessary, this man should be facing prosecution,
  67. Profile photo of Smutleybutt
    Smutleybutt Male 18-29
    1377 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 4:34 am
    5Cats & CrakrJak how do you know for a fact he wasn`t on his way to his home after he `lost him`? Zimmerman cut him off because he got in his truck. Where did he cut him off? When he was almost to his house because that was where he was headed?
  68. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:11 am
    This thread is so backward I`d have to saw off half of my brain to begin to understand it.
  69. Profile photo of jboug24
    jboug24 Male 18-29
    48 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:16 am
    Zimmerman was on the ground being punched
    since most media only gives one side of the story, might as well read the other
  70. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:46 am
    jendrian: None, I repeat none of the 911 calls mentions anyone `brandishing` a gun. The gun we are talking about was in a inside the waist holster which was under Zimmerman`s red sweater.

    These condos have unfenced front and back yards, Zimmerman could not have `cornered` Trayvon nor would a 17yr old football athlete likely be `caught` in any foot chase with a middle-aged overweight male. There is no evidence that Zimmerman `provoked` a fight, unless you believe asking the question "What are you doing here ?" to be fighting words.

    By the way Baal, The burden of proof here would be `beyond a reasonable doubt`. There is a lot of reasonable doubt here and zero evidence of premeditation.

    OJ got out of a murder charge because one glove didn`t fit. Zimmerman was bloodied, beaten, wet and grass stained back and witnesses seen Trayvon on top of him. Those are holes big enough to sail a cruise ship through as far as `reasonable doubt` goes.
  71. Profile photo of Smutleybutt
    Smutleybutt Male 18-29
    1377 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:48 am
    Here`s a report of George Zimmerman, who made a hobby of looking for trouble,
  72. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:59 am
    5cats: "At that point what prevents him from running straight home (which is what I would have done at age 17 OR 47!)? "

    Perhaps not wanting to draw some big guy chasing him towards his Fathers house. Also, remember that he was only visiting his Father, so he may not have been as familiar with the layout of the neighborhood, especially at night and full of adrenaline. To have someone you don`t know chasing you can cause someone to react in different ways. ("fight or flight"...psych 101), not to mention that if you thing about it, the SYG law technically gives Trayvon protection as well. He had no legal obligation to run. Lastly, it seems that you and CJ or using this arument to put partial if not full blame on the kid. Remember, Trayvon wasn`t breaking any laws. He was an innocent kid.
  73. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:08 am
    CJ: "Also, no one is questioning why Trayvon didn`t just go home, just a few yards away, no one is questioning why he was acting shady, put on his hoodie, tried to loose Zimmerman and then attack him."

    As I said to 5cats, why attract danger to your house? As far as "acting shady", I don`t see how walking home with iced tea and skittles, and talking on a cell phone is "acting shady" unless you`re a paranoid cop-wannabe with a gun. I`ve been in that neighborhood. I play golf around the corner from there. It`s not dangerous. Zimmerman was reacting out out of fear. "Oooooh....black kid wearing a hoodie!!!! Glad I have a gun!!!"
    Please....wearing a hoodie isn`t "shady" especially when it chilly and raining. Lastly...yes...you can get "cornered" in that neighborhood. it`s a gated community. Trust me...I`ve been there to serve papers. I know.
  74. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:24 am
    jtrebowski: I never said Trayvon wasn`t innocent, up until he attacked and beat Zimmerman.

    Smutleybutt: Wasn`t looking for `trouble`, he was part of the neighborhood watch. Now you may point to the claim that he made 40 calls to 911, but I`ll remind you that that`s about 3 calls per month and the record shown he called more them more than once on many occasions to tell the police that the person he had seen had left the area and that the police didn`t need to come.

    The problem with the narrative that the media is spinning here is that once you scratch beneath the surface, you find a whole lot of nothing unusual.
  75. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:28 am
    jtrebowski: Ok then, If Trayvon was so afraid to attract attention, then why didn`t he call 911 to report a `creepy guy` `chasing him` in his neighborhood ? wouldn`t you ?
  76. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:45 am
    CJ: "I never said Trayvon wasn`t innocent, up until he attacked and beat Zimmerman."

    You implied that wearing a hoodie was cause for suspicion. Also, because Trayvon was being chased, if indeed he did beat Zimmerman, he had every right to do that under the SYG law.
    Lastly...again, i don`t know what I would`ve done if I was Trayvon. I do know what i woul`ve done if I were Zimmerman. I would`ve satayed in my car till the cops got there.

    Ok..off to work.
  77. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:46 am
    Oh, and just so no one thinks I would`ve been eating Thai food, I meant "stayed".
  78. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:00 am
    "The Koran tells Muslims to do just that: usurp their culture from the inside"

    IF religion must be brought into this, you surely can admit that the Christian Bible says something similar. If not, there wouldn`t be so many missionary groups trying to convert every ancient culture around the world.
  79. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:05 am
    jt makes some undeniable points. Everyone is so concerned with Zimmerman`s SYG defense that everyone is ignoring Trayvon`s SYG defense. If some person came running up to me in the middle of the night saying "What are you doing here?" I`d be in a defensive mode immediately. Not necessarily defense from a fight, but if he kept advancing that`s exactly what it would be.
  80. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:09 am
    Zimmerman provoked the confrontation, no doubt about that. He even did so AGAINST the police`s directions. As to asking why Trayvon didn`t call 911, if a guy is approaching me how much time would I have to call 911, and how would that do me any good if someone is advancing aggressively right now?
  81. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:10 am
    @patchgrabber: Thank you, especially considering that Trayvon had every right to be there, wasn`t breaking any laws, and (going on an assumption with this one) Zimmerman was probably pretty confrontational. I think it`s safe to say he didn`t go up to Trayvon and say "pardon me, young man. Do you reside here?"

    Looks like my work didn`t come in, so y`all are stuck with me for the next hour ;-)
  82. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:28 am
    As you can see from the protest crowd this is straight up race baiting. Pick and choose what to show people to change laws that aren`t the problem........
  83. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:39 am
    Nice pic McGovern. How did that pass the size restrictions for images? You are a sneaky hacker I bet. ;-)

    I`m going to assume that Zimmerman is probably a racist, but if so that could only speak to his motives, I`m more concerned with his actions. He acted in a way that I feel was grossly inappropriate, and against police direction.
  84. Profile photo of BostonKaiser
    BostonKaiser Male 40-49
    1177 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:47 am
    I`m still curious why he ran in the first place. According to all reports including the 911 call Zimmerman was making at the time, Martin saw him sitting in his vehicle talking on the phone. Then he started running. Why? I certainly wouldn`t feel threatened by some guy talking on a cell phone parked in his vehicle. That is, assuming I wasn`t up to no good.
  85. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:52 am
    @patchgrabber

    He did disobey the operators order to stay away but if you read the police report you`d see Zimmerman had been assualted unless you think he got those marks from himself. Funny how the media makes no mention of that.....
  86. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:56 am
    ""I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin`s death as George Zimmerman was."

    -Geraldo Riviera
  87. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:01 am
    McGovern1981: "....change laws that aren`t the problem........"

    You`re kidding, right? In case you havn`t noticed, the law IS the problem That`s what this debate is about. Even the right-wing co-sponsers of the law admit it`s the problem, and that once Zimmerman gout out of his SUV and pursued Trayvon, he was no longer protected by the law, but if you ask me, that`s the moment that Trayvon was, under the very same law.
  88. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:05 am
    McGovern

    I agree this has been framed wrongly as a race issue by the media and others. Taking race out of it Zimmerman`s actions were wrong on many levels. It was obvious in the 911 tapes he was angry and felt Trayvon was guilty of something before he even got out of his car and therefore it is reasonable to think he may not have handled his initiation of the confrontation well. Then look at it from Trayvon`s shoes, "some guy is following me and he is pissed, I have not done anything wrong", if Trayvon attacked him it was because he felt threatened and had no idea what this guy was up to.
  89. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:09 am
    @jtrebowski

    That is if you think Trayvon didn`t assualt him. You don`t find it convenient this gets all the media attention but the Chicago shootings around the same time that killed 10 and wounded 40 get swept under the carpet. I guess that could never be because the guns weren`t legal and it was black on black and black on white crime giving politicians no fuel for their own agenda.
  90. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:14 am
    More "gems" from Geraldo this morning: ""I`ll bet you money, if he didn`t have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."

    Um..yeah, and if that girl hadn`t been wearing a short dress, she wouldn`t have been raped?

    "I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."

    But white kids can?

    "He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it`s raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."

    It was raining. And cold.
  91. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:18 am
    @McGovern: No. I don`t think he assaulted him. If indeed he injured Zimmerman, it was out of self-defense. Zimmerman admitted to following him.

    As far as the other case goes, I don`t disagree that just as much attention should be paid to cases like that. Is Fox "news" still covering it?
  92. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:20 am
    @McGovern: You`re assuming that Trayvon initiated the conflict, otherwise you wouldn`t have said "assaulted". If Trayvon acted in self-defense, it wasn`t assault. Since Zimmerman was the confronter, I don`t think Trayvon did anything wrong. Losing a fight you provoked is no reason to shoot someone.
  93. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:35 am
    I should also add that I haven`t watched a single news story about this. I don`t watch American news because I feel it to be blatantly biased and dramatic. I haven`t seen it on Canadian news, and I don`t care about the race thing. I`m only interested in the facts, and disobeying the police to initiate a conflict is just wrong.
  94. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5877 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 9:56 am
    mcboozerilla-"People with guns (and I don`t mean hunters) usually have acute inferiority complexes. Guns make them feel powerful because they can`t find success in life."

    People with handles that end in `rilla` usually have acute inferiority complexes and small members. `Rilla` makes them fell powerful because they can`t get laid.

    See, works both ways. Try to keep the psychoanalysis to the pros.


    McGovern1981-"He did disobey the operators order to stay away"

    911 operators can not give `orders`. In most instances, they`re not even officers.
  95. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 10:10 am
    911 operators can not give `orders`. In most instances, they`re not even officers.
    True, however their directions are still to be followed, and it`s not Zimmerman`s job as a neighbourhood watchman to pursue and detain suspicious characters, that`s the job of police. He did the right thing by calling 911, and he should have just stayed in his vehicle and let the appropriate authorities handle it. Just walking down the sidewalk isn`t an offence, and he wasn`t committing any crime, so why pursue when it`s not your place to do so?
  96. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 10:15 am
    @patchgrabber

    It was the operator he disobeyed which does not help his case but not an officer. As for Trayvon acting in self defense that dosen`t make sense Zimmerman was following him not physically attacking him. You do realize you can kill a person with fists too right?
  97. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 10:39 am
    "Zimmerman was following him not physically attacking him."

    1. That is Zimmerman`s story and given his presupposed ideas before the confrontation it should not be taken at face value, not saying he is lying but it should be investigated as a possibility.

    2. You can threaten someone without physically attacking them. Trayvon had no idea who this guy was and would have been correct in viewing him as a possible or even probable threat.
  98. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:03 am
    As it`s going now right or wrong the media will see to it that Zimmerman is crucified.

    And queue the riots.....

  99. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:07 am
    No one who is defending Zimmerman`s actions has picked up on the fact that Zimmerman thought Trayvon was up to no good, on drugs and possibly armed with a gun and yet he still thought it was a good idea to confront him before the police arrived, this set of facts speaks volumes about Zimmerman`s frame of mind.
  100. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:40 am
    Excellent link@jboug24!
    Here it is again
    Most interesting: Martin was 6`2"!! Who knew that? He was hardly a "little kid" eh?
  101. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:45 am
    @CrakrJak, an unfenced gated community? only in America.

    Seriously, a gun holster on your hip = I can see your f*cking gun.

    Put yourself in both shoes and try to follow their stories: on the one hand you have Zimmerman spotting someone unfamiliar and in his mind, suspicious. You call the police and grab your gun, follow the guy with your truck (so much for Trayvon being an athlete) and then, as plenty of media outlets describe, cut him off and ask him what`s going on.

    Now get on Trayvon`s side. You`re coming home from buying snacks for watching the game, you spot someone following you and cutting you off while on the phone with a friend who has a gun in a holster and looks very angry at you.

    Seriously, what are you trying to defend? The guy`s right to corner and beat up kids and then shoot him when he fights back?

    Even if Trayvon did beat Zimmerman up, he was just "standing his ground", Zimmerman on the other hand, was not
  102. Profile photo of Gottamgear
    Gottamgear Male 18-29
    670 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:51 am
    5Cats 6`2`` and only 140 lbs. He was stick thin.
  103. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:52 am
    5Cats, I guess that invalidates the whole thing. Trayvon was a big athlete and a teenager who, like many others, has been suspended from school.

    I guess that`s reason enough to be chased and forced to fight for your life only to lose and have the perpetrator of it walk away free.
  104. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:56 am
    this thread is so retarded thanks to CrakrJak and 5Cats; this is like watching a video of some guy (whatever the colour of his skin) burning a black guy on a cross and you two wondering: "wait wait, how do we know the black guy didn`t struggle when they forced him out of bed? Look he`s got a bruise he`s probably burning him on self defence"
  105. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 11:58 am
    Some thoughts from another website:
    "the media dubbing Zimmerman "a white Hispanic." Like the Israelis, he`s now an honorary member of the Oppressive White Majority"

    "Certain local stories of race-on-race crime ignite the media`s passions"
    Other Stories? not so much.

    "The media is a full-court press to politicize this"

    "alas, black on white crime is so common as to be not newsworthy, whereas the reverse is rare and hence, oddly, makes national news"

    ALL the news coverage, even on BBC World, has been entirely one-sided and will remain so, even if Zimmerman is proven innocent. (note the "if")
  106. Profile photo of Gottamgear
    Gottamgear Male 18-29
    670 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:00 pm
    5cats about that `article` you love so much, it`s from Kyle Rogers a Conservative activist in South Carolina who writes for the Charleston Conservative Examiner. Biased much? Scroll down and read the comments on the article.
  107. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    burning a black guy
    Funny @jendrian! Considering my link, eh? Ironic even. Your `fantasy` has nothing to do with the actual case at hand, why fan the flames of race hatred?
    @gottamgear: I thought other reports had him at 170, I could be mistaken though.

    Personally, I was 6`0" and 135 at 17, yeah skinny, those were the days!
  108. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:13 pm
    @5Cats. The initial police report has him at 160lb (that`s 72 kg), for a 6`2" (1.87 m) guy. That`s still pretty thin, in fact, for him to be hulking at that height he would have to weigh somewhere closer to 200lb.

    Then again, how is that of any relevance? How does that affect the fact that he chased and then shot him? Both of this things he admits. None of which is covered by the Stand Your Ground law.

    Also, my bad. I should`ve just written "burning a 17 year old kid", instead of a black guy. Sorry it`s just that every deadly burning I`ve ever heard of has played that way.
  109. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:18 pm
    5Cats: Thanks for that link, I didn`t know Trayvon was under a 5-day suspension from his school. You have to do something really stupid to get a 5-day out-of-school suspension, so much for the narrative that Trayvon was a `Good Kid`.

    Anyone want to bet that Trayvon was suspended for fighting in school ? It`s a guess, but it seems to be a good one now.
  110. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:39 pm
    CrakrJak, you have to explain how that has anything to do with the case.
  111. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    Sorry it`s just that every deadly burning I`ve ever heard of has played that way.
    That`s likely @jendrian, since the MSM ONLY reports white on black crime, and NOT the other way around.
    What has his hieght and weight got to do with it? Plenty, that`s what!
    Much ado has been made of Zimmerman`s impressive 250 pounds, yet no MSM report of Martin being 6`2"? Many commentors here have said "Why would Martin attack someone bigger than him?" BUT that`s not entirely true is it?
    The MSM happily shows a picture of Trayvon when he was 16, or even younger, to build the false impression that he was "a little kid".

    ALSO: Zimmerman makes 45 calls to 911 over 15 months? He`s part of Neighborhood Watch FFS! That`s 3 calls a month! If he calls 911, then calls back to say the perps have fled, or that everything`s OK, how is that "excessive" in any way?
  112. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 12:58 pm
    So Zimmerman`s past record, accused of assaulting a police offices, charges expunged, IS a factor? Expunged is better than dropped, better even than "not guilty" ok? He has NO POLICE RECORD against him.

    IF Martin was suspended for fighting, or threatening a teacher with violence, or getting caught with drugs, IF that`s the case then it does play a part in the case.
    However I personally don`t know why he was suspended, and the school`s not telling, and for sure the parents aren`t going to!
    So until the Grand Jury, it remains `unknown`.
  113. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    @5cats: Weight might have something to do with a media argument, but the fact is Zimmerman was TOLD to stay in his vehicle, but instead instigated a confrontation. His legal responsibility was to STAY IN HIS VEHICLE while talking to 911. There was NO reason for him to leave his vehicle. Talk facts and stop with all the red herrings.
  114. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:24 pm
    jendrian: If Zimmerman`s past is `fair game` for the media, so should Trayvon`s past.
  115. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    patchgrabber: The dispatcher said and I quote, "We don`t need you to do that." That a far cry from directly telling someone to stay in their car or to not follow.
  116. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    @Crakr: Play as many semantic gymnastics as you want, he still had no business confronting a person walking down the sidewalk. This whole thing could have been avoided if he had done what he was supposed to do as directed by 911.
  117. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    If Zimmerman`s past is `fair game` for the media, so should Trayvon`s past.
    Agreed. However I fail to see what either of their pasts has anything to do with the facts. Seems like it`s all just inflammatory BS.
  118. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    @CrakrJak & 5Cats; Ok fine, talk about their pasts and plaster it all over the place.

    It doesn`t change the facts that are agreed upon by everybody: he chased and shot an unarmed minor who at the time was committing no crimes. His height, weight, colour, athleticism, religion, how many blow jobs he got during his lifetime, whether they took a shower or not that evening doesn`t change the fact that he chased and shot a minor.
  119. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    "You have to do something really stupid to get a 5-day out-of-school suspension, so much for the narrative that Trayvon was a `Good Kid`."

    Not necessarily, idk about other states but Florida has a zero tolerance policy. My brother was suspended when he was a kid for "fighting" when in reality my brother was being beat up and didn`t fight back at all. He was punished for being a victim.
  120. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    Also, "If Zimmerman`s past is `fair game` for the media, so should Trayvon`s past. "

    It`s one thing to bring up something that we know happened, and something else to make assumptions in an attempt to slander a victim. Yes, we know he was suspended. No, we do not know why he was suspended. And Trayvon was the victim here, he wasn`t doing anything illegal, so even if he was suspended for violence, it`s irrelevant when Zimmerman was the one who initiated the conflict.
  121. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:55 pm
    doesn`t change the fact that he chased and shot a minor

    Oh kinda like the much younger minors that died in the Chicago shootings? Oh that`s right you can`t make it a racial issue so we`ll just ignore that!
  122. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    he chased and shot an unarmed minor
    That`s hardly ALL that happened @jendrian, there`s obviously MORE going on than that. I think you left several steps out:

    Saw `suspicious` person while on Watch duty
    Person ran away! Lost him.
    Found person again
    Talked to person (confronted if you like)
    Got bloody nose, bloody head, grass stains on back
    Person seen by witness on top, striking him
    Person was killed, exactly HOW is unknown

    The rest will come out in the Grand Jury.
  123. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5877 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    patchgrabber-"however their directions are still to be followed"

    That is incorrect. They are not officers, they have no jurisdiction over a person, and they are not on the scene to evaluate the situation. All they can give is `advice` and tell the caller what they are doing to send assistance.

    patchgrabber-"Zimmerman was TOLD to stay in his vehicle"

    Actually, he wasn`t. Not to mention that fact the operator can not TELL anyone to do anything.

    patchgrabber-"had done what he was supposed to do as directed by 911"

    Again, 911 can not instruct you to do anything. They can not order you to do anything. And you, as an individual, are under to legal obligation to follow their instructions.

    (I`ll keep repeating this fact out everytime you repeat the lie.)

    Truth be told: Zimmerman SHOULD have taken that advice. But that`s all it was, Advice.
  124. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5877 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 2:48 pm
    All right, it`s surpassed simply lettting Law take it`s course. It`s now `A Cause`, with t-shirts and everything.



    Hell, he`s even got his own $40 hoodie.

    Excuse me while I throw up while the rule of law is left behind in the dust of vengeance while the race huksters and liberals race to see who can get Zimmerman to guillotine first, (hey, public execution at 11:00 [of course, Sharpton will probably make it pay-per-view...more profit that way">).
  125. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 2:58 pm
    @McGovern1981 & 5Cats: Making it a racial issue? I`m just saying someone stepped out of bounds of civility by chasing and shooting a minor. Of course there was a scuffle, of course the kid fought for his life, wouldn`t you if somebody cut you off and you noticed he had a gun?

    @MeGrendel: That`s good `ol capitalism, nothing to do with the case. Nothing to do with the application of a law.

    The parents and their followers stirring up a mass media coverage of this are simply outraged at the simple fact that the man was let go after shooting an unarmed minor he incited into a fight. That is an injustice, and whether you agree or not with their methods of making this injustice so visible it becomes impossible to ignore, it is still an injustice.

    I see you all agree at least with the idea that he should be tried and prosecuted, and most of you even claim that he was probably guilty, why is it that everything else makes no sense when helping that argument?
  126. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 3:03 pm
    @MeGrendel: The HORROR! The horror! @your link.
    Imagine that, people making money off a dead kid. Not nice!

    So @jendrian, you agree there was a fight, and during that fight the gun `went off`. Did Zimmerman pull the trigger? Did Martin? We don`t yet know.
    The way the MSM portrays it, Zimmerman was standing 20 feet away and shot him in cold blood. NOT how it happened says the witnesses.
  127. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5877 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 3:20 pm
    jendrian-"The parents and their followers stirring up a mass media coverage "

    And I don`t know of may parents who wouldn`t.

    BUT, the media, in-mass, automatically jumped on the racial issue for ratiings. That DOES effect the application of the law.

    I have not problem with Farrakhan saying he will `see what kind of jsutic will come`. I DO have a problem of `the llaw of retaliation may very well be applied`. (as in: Try him and find him guilty no matter what, or all hell will break loose.) That DOES effect the application of the law.

    Now that the Media, Sharpton, Farrakhan and now Obama have stepped into the matter, they`re making Zimmerman (spanish-speaking latino) out to be a `Rush Limbuagh, card-carrying republcian KKK member`. (And yes, one media member has already blamed Limbaugh, Gingrich, Santorum & Romney for the incident)
  128. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 4:14 pm
    "Did Zimmerman pull the trigger?"

    He said he did. I doubt that`s something he`d say if it really went off by accident, because it makes him look worse.
  129. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 4:16 pm
    @5Cats: The gun "went off"? Zimmerman stated that he shot him, it`s in the official police report.

    @MeGrendel: Well, if your media is so powerful that it can affect the application of the law (as it did with OJ right? He`s in jail isn`t he? oh wait), then there`s something wrong with your justice system.

    If you want to play it like this is a racial issue, then the argument wouldn`t be who shot who, but why he shot him. There would be no argument as to whether he shot him or not, but whether it was racially inclined or not. This latter is the one that everyone but 5Cats agrees with, you know with the whole "I shot him" Zimmerman said but whatever, and there`s the whole name-calling in the 911 call, so maybe it was racially inclined, if only a little bit.

    Then again, what I`ve been arguing this whole time is that even if you remove the race part, the man still admits to committing manslaughter.
  130. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5877 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 5:40 pm
    jendrian-"the man still admits to committing manslaughter"

    In Florida, manslaughter, defined as: "The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder.."

    Seeing as he has claimed lawful justification (self-defense), he has admitted to no such thing. Please try to stick with the facts.

    If it goes to a jury trial, even if they found solid video evidence that it was self defence, no jury anywhere would dare find him innocent..for fear of their lives.

    It gone beyond the point where such ethereal concepts of `truth` or `facts` make any difference.
  131. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    Ok first, it can`t be self defence because he instigated the assault. The case fits every part of the definition of manslaughter by negligence and unlawful justification. You cannot claim self defence if you instigate the fight in the first place.

    Second, fear of their lives? If there was video evidence or any evidence that proved without a shadow of a doubt he was innocent, every media outlet would look stupid, again bringing up OJ, did the jury fear their lives?
  132. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:14 pm
    jendrian: There is no evidence that Zimmerman `instigated` an assault. Asking someone a question is not inviting an assault.
  133. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:20 pm
    "There is no evidence that Zimmerman `instigated` an assault. Asking someone a question is not inviting an assault. "

    There is evidence that Zimmerman thought Trayvon was a criminal (and thus most likely, when approaching him, wouldn`t be acting friendly, even if he was simply "asking a question"). There is evidence that Zimmerman was stalking/following Trayvon. There is evidence that Trayvon had reason to be afraid of Zimmerman (supporting a self defense argument for TRAYVON, since you keep mentioning how Zimmerman was injured but don`t seem to acknowledge that Trayvon was most likely acting in ACTUAL self defense).
  134. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:21 pm
    how about following him with your truck, cutting him off when he runs away from you, coming out of your truck and scaring the sh*t out of you until a gun is pulled (by someone, whoever it was) and somebody dies?
  135. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:23 pm
    it can`t be self defence because he instigated the assault.
    So says YOU! Were you there? Do you have some inside information the rest of the world does not? @jendrian what you`re doing is called "guessing". You have no evidence, not even one little speck, to back up your statement.

    He stopped Martin, this is true. How much time passed between this and the shooting? 15 seconds? 2 minutes? A world of difference there.

    Zimmerman contends he was looking at a street sign when he was jumped from behind. Until an actual witness contradicts that, it`s the ONLY evidece we have. It is backed up by his injuries and stains, your conjecture has nothing.
  136. Profile photo of Stormwolf
    Stormwolf Female 40-49
    74 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:25 pm
    @ jendrian: Actually, OJ Simpson IS in prison, and won`t be eligible for parole until 2017. However, not for killing Nicole...

    As to the idea of "stand your ground", it`s my understanding Zimmerman CHASED Trayvon Martin down, and that even the cops told him NOT to confront Trayvon. This tells me that Zimmerman was looking for a confrontation, not being a good citizen. Whether the gun went off "accidentally", or if Martin somehow pulled the trigger in the fight is moot...Zimmerman never should have confronted Martin in the first place. Follow him, sure. Provide information to the Police as to his location when they arrived, sure. But play Cowboy even after being told NOT to? How is this NOT murder, no matter what race he or Trayvon were?
  137. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:28 pm
    that Trayvon was most likely acting in ACTUAL self defense
    Same thing @LillianDulci, you are conjecturing what happened based purely on emotion. See what I did there?

    So you`re saying a "scrawny teen" overpowered a 250 man without getting so much as a scratch? Is this kid a Kung-Fu master or something? srsly... On the one hand he`s a "helpless kid" but he`s able to mop the floor with a "big adult"? Make up your minds!
    And remember, the witness saw Martin ON TOP of Zimmerman.
  138. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:30 pm
    k, I`m out. This is very clear, whether it was a mistake or not, he did chase and kill an unarmed person. That is murder that can`t be explained as self defence.

    5Cats, you`re insane. At least CrakrJak tries to make sense
  139. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:34 pm
    Hi @Stormwolf!
    How is this NOT murder
    I`ll tell you how:
    Zimmerman follows Martin.
    Martin evades him, loses him.
    Zimmerman finds Martin again
    M asks Z `Why are you following me` FIRST says the GF.
    Z confronts M, asking what he`s doing there.
    (here`s MY speculation & possible explaiation)
    Z turns to look at the street sign, possibly taking out his phone to call 911 again
    M jumps Z from behind. He`s 6"2 remember?
    As they scuffle, Z is injured.
    (here the witness sees M on top and returns home to phone 911)
    Z cries for help, no one comes
    M sees the pistol and trys to get it
    In the struggle to control the gun, it goes off, killing M

    NOT murder IF ( and I`m the first to say it`s IF) thsi is true.
  140. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:36 pm
    5Cats, you`re insane.
    @jendian is that more conjecture or is it projection?
    YOUR theory omits or ignores KNOWN FACTS. You seem to have no trouble doing that, I wonder why, really I do!
  141. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 6:59 pm
    Oh 5Cats, let`s look at all the facts here:

    Z was a nutcase who had called police pretty much every time he saw a black person. His neighbors describe him as "fixated on crime, and focused on young black males". Z followed M against the express instructions of the police. Z had previously been charged with resisting arrest and assaulting an officer. Z was not tested for drugs or alcohol, as is standard procedure, and a law enforcement expert says he sounds drunk on the 911 tape. Multiple witnesses say that M was crying out for help, never Z. The police reports were amended to support Z`s claim of self-defense, as they did not initially include any evidence that Z was injured or had shown any signs of being in a struggle. Police flat out ignored one witness because their claim differed from Z`s, and tried to correct another when they said it was M who called out for help.

    If you`re going to spout facts, spout all of them.
  142. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 7:53 pm
    Z was a nutcase who had called police pretty much every time he saw a black person.
    @Yaezakura: This is an outright lie. 45 times in 15 months = 3 per MONTH. I`m fairly certain he saw "black people" more often than that, since the neighborhood is only 50% white, eh?
    PLUS: He`s a member of the Watch, and had assisted in the arrest of a criminal.
    of the police
    No, of the 911 Dispatch.
    Multiple witnesses say that M was crying out for help, never Z
    LINK! Or stfu.
    The police reports were amended to support Z`s claim of self-defense
    LINK! Or stfu.

    @Yaesakura, if YOU are going to spout b*llsh*t, link the source OR stfu, plz & thx.
    Everything I`ve said is either linked previously OR I openly admit I am speculating.
    You are simply repeating outright lies.
  143. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:01 pm
    @5Cats: Actually, he was NOT a member of any registered neighborhood watch group, and in fact carrying a weapon is against the regulations of the neighborhood watch. If you want sources, this page lists all I mentioned earlier and more, and sources its list.
  144. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm
    Seen your link already, it says NOTHING like you`ve put forth.
    "registered" but he`s still a Watch member, correct?
    #7 Martin had no criminal record, neither does Zimmerman.
    & etc.
  145. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 8:34 pm
    It says literally everything I said. I never said he was convicted, only charged.

    As for the "Watch" thing, he seems to only be a member of a Neighborhood Watch because he claims to be. From what I can find, none of his neighbors liked him, and many had filed complaints about his "Watch" activities. It sounds to me like he was just one nutso with a gun claiming to be "protecting his neighborhood" from young black kids who like Skittles.
  146. Profile photo of robosnitz
    robosnitz Male 40-49
    2737 posts
    March 23, 2012 at 10:03 pm
    Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.
  147. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 24, 2012 at 3:50 am
    Zimmerman`s neighborhood had seen quite a few crimes as well, 8 thefts and at least 2 burglaries in the last year. Zimmerman actually helped police catch one thief last year.
  148. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    March 24, 2012 at 5:56 am
    @CJ: If you`re going to apply Zimmerman`s past as a judge of character, why won`t you do the same for Martin? Neither one of them had any prior convictions, both have family members stating they were good people, yet in your eyes, Martin is "shady". (your words) All based on one mans account who had just shot a kid and obviously being fully aware of the gun laws in the state of Florida? Hmmmmm....
  149. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    March 25, 2012 at 2:49 am
    @5cats "The "skateboarding" incident that`s briefly mentioned?"

    Maybe because the man was initially arrested for man slaughter and is then defending himself under the law, not immediately cleared at the scene of any wrong doing, no drug test, no further questioning at the PD nothing.

    I`ve seen a lot over the internet of this white person was attacked by this black persons type cases and they are still @ large but, not pne where for sure they knew who the assailant was and where they were located and simply failed to continue investigating. If this is not the case it`s not an apples to apples comparison and conveys that you are biased right of the bat for you to feel it is even comparable or relevant.

    If this bias does not exist then hopefully you can see passed that and understand why there`s such a "media outrage" and it`s not just for Obama`s reelection.
  150. Profile photo of j_dizzek_27
    j_dizzek_27 Male 18-29
    216 posts
    March 25, 2012 at 11:12 am
    Only is it justifiable to use deadly force if the force opposing you is equal or lesser. That means if someone`s shooting at you, shoot the f back, or if you don`t have a firearm, you can use a knife or a blunt object to bludgeon your attacker. There are also ways of effectively disabling an attacker with your bare hands, like ripping their ears off (though there are more). That aside, did Martin even have a weapon? If not, this guy is fried.
  151. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:10 am
    @j_dizzik_27: No, actually the "castle laws" are there so you CAN use greater force, unlike in Canada. So if a mugger comes at you with a knife, YOU don`t go to jail for scaring him away with a gun.
    Shooting him requires more `threat`. I think him on top of you beating your face would count as a "threat" don`t you?

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