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Date: 03/27/12 07:19 AM

22 Responses to This Is What You`re Missing On TV, Part 300 [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of Kim...
    Kim... Female 13-17
    539 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 7:20 am
    Link: This Is What You`re Missing On TV, Part 300 - Whoa, CNN`s leaning way more to the left than usual. What`s up with that, CNN?
  2. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 7:28 am
    Well, they aren`t wrong. Although the title is rather colloquial. If those stats are accurate, a 67.7% debt to GDP ratio is pretty bad.
  3. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 7:48 am
    Well aside from the obvious photoshop, China has a whole bunch of hidden debt, and their GDP is inflated.

    There are whole cities that are uninhabited, but the sheer fact that the city is there raises the countries worth.

    See? There are several of these "ghost cities" in China.
  4. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 7:54 am
    China has a whole bunch of hidden debt, and their GDP is inflated.
    Source or speculation?
  5. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:07 am
    I`ve been China`s bitch ever since I tried the Kung Pao Chicken with a side of egg rolls.
  6. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6780 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:08 am
    I love that people talk about China taking over the USA.

    First of all they own less than 6% of total debt. That`s like saying Shell is going to come get my house because my gas card is about 6% of my total debt.

    Second of all almost a quarter of China`s exports are consumed by the U.S. Their economy can`t sustain itself without our consumerism. They have every interest in doing anything they can to keep our economy and buying power as strong as possible.

  7. Profile photo of Zach82
    Zach82 Male 30-39
    319 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:13 am
    67% of GDP is actually a rather middling level of debt compared to most other industrialized nations. It`s ain`t good, but it isn`t the end of the world nuther.
  8. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:24 am
    This isn`t photoshopped. Becoming China`s Bitch is the title of a book by Peter Kiernan.

    I`m not sure how they`re calculating debt-to-GDP. Most figures indicate that the US`s ratio is close to 100%, while China`s official figures are around 34%. As AuburnJunky noted, the latter is understated - although China likely has far less debt relative to its GDP than the US does - that 34% figure is external debt, which is verifiable.
    My own estimate would place it around 64%, but it`s hard to have a good feel for what the actual debt is, partly because of ambiguity in the f/x rate.
  9. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:30 am
    @Patchgrabber: Internal debt held by both the Chinese public and the PBOC is not reported by the PRC`s government. As such, it`s not included in official estimates of sovereign debt ratios. The external debt held by other nations and external investors is verifiable and thus reported; it stands at around 32% currently. (The discrepancy between this figure and the 34% from my earlier post is that a small amount is reported by the PRC, although this is known not to include the two categories I`ve indicated above.) I don`t claim that my 64% figure is `right`, but it`s what our chief economic adviser provides and what our futurist uses in developing forward-looking environmental analysis.
  10. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:39 am
    @simbha: If what you say is true then it would lend credence to what AJ said. Also, the way they are calculating debt to GDP ratio in this instance is by only counting foreign-held debt. By your own government`s admission, if you were to include internal debt to form a gross national debt, you would add about a third of GDP and your debt to GDP ratio would be about 100%
  11. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:40 am
    @Patch: Here are two sources. I happen to disagree with the figures provided by Gordon Chang in the first one, but I agree with the overarching statement that China`s debt is far higher than it`s indicated...

    Forbes article, February 26 2012

    Bloomber article, December 28 2011
  12. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:42 am
    @Patch: Yes, that`s why I state the 100% figure for the US to be comparable to the 64% figure for China. It doesn`t change Kiernan`s point in the interview/book (which I haven`t read), but I believe it`s a more intellectually honest comparison.
  13. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 8:42 am
    @HolyGod: Well, it`s more like 8%, not less than 6, and almost a tenth of your country`s debt owned by another country (of which you can`t stand, I might add) is no laughing matter. Yes your economies are intertwined, but if they are dependent on your consumerism then you are dependent on their Renminbi.
  14. Profile photo of HolyGod
    HolyGod Male 30-39
    6780 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 10:17 am
    @patchgrabber
    I can use google too. But apparently I have better comprehension. You might want to re-read things before you argue. They own 8% of public debt. Public debt is about 70% of total debt.
  15. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 12:22 pm
    wow
  16. Profile photo of lawndartsftw
    lawndartsftw Male 40-49
    1811 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    Wow, that is unprofessional....
  17. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 2:14 pm
    @HolyGod: If you know how to use google then you should first try with "continuum fallacy". According to your treasury, China owns almost $1.2 trillion in treasuries, which is around 7.7% of your gross debt. That`s a lot. Quibbling doesn`t invalidate my argument. You should stop using logical fallacies when you argue.
  18. Profile photo of uatme
    uatme Male 18-29
    1074 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 3:55 pm
    china has dept? to who?
  19. Profile photo of uatme
    uatme Male 18-29
    1074 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 3:57 pm
    % is not a ratio so wtf does this even mean?
  20. Profile photo of PopCap
    PopCap Male 30-39
    730 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    No, but 26:67.7 is.
  21. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    March 27, 2012 at 9:28 pm
    WTF? How old is this? Last I checked, USA`s figure was over 100%.
  22. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    March 28, 2012 at 8:25 am
    @PopCap & uatme:
    You`ve never heard of a percentage ratio?

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