New Witness Confirms Zimmerman`s Account (Pic+)

Submitted by: 5cats 5 years ago in

We"ve heard lots from one side, here"s something from the other.
There are 241 comments:
Male 40,349
[quote]If he didn`t witness it then he`s not a drating witness!![/quote]
Hope that you`re joking here...

The guy heard the fighting and went out to look. It was literally in his back yard. He `witnessed` Z on the ground yelling for help and M on top beating on Z. He told M to stop it, then went in to call 911. While inside, on the line, he heard the shot. He went back out and `witnessed` the positions of M and Z after the shooting.

K, happy?
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Male 1,678
"This technical aspect of it seems cut & dried to me, but apparently causes confusion in others (Sharpton, Jackson & etc)."

I hate when those two are on my side of an argument, they try and turn everything into a race row which detracts from the real issues. I wouldn`t be surprised if they feature in Kanye Wests next single.

I can`t speak for anyone else who thinks Zimmerman is guilty, but personally I don`t think the situation was due to race. I just think the most likely scenario going by the evidence thats been made available is that Zimmerman followed Martin in an attempt to stop him from leaving before the police arrived and that this action lead to a confrontation which resulted in Zimmerman shooting Martin dead. If Zimmerman hadn`t have acted like an idiot vigilante there would have been no problem. Martin would be alive and well, Zimmerman would not be public enemy number 1, and we would not be having this debate.
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Male 1,678
"@Paddy: That`s because the witness didn`t see that part."

If he didn`t witness it then he`s not a drating witness!!
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Male 40,349
[quote]But when one of you dies... It`s a legal mess[/quote]
Yup, that`s for sure!
But the idea is that an innocent person (who was only trying to survive) shouldn`t rot in jail for 6 month - 1 year waiting for trial, eh?
They can still be charged though, so it`s not a "get out of jail free" law either.
It`s mostly the call of the cops, and they called it Zimmerman`s way because that`s how the evidence pointed.

This technical aspect of it seems cut & dried to me, but apparently causes confusion in others (Sharpton, Jackson & etc).
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Male 3,482
[quote]M told his GF: "I`m not running" and his GF says M spoke first to Z (who was indeed following him).[/quote]
So it all comes back to who actually has the right to claim self-defense.

See, now, before the whole Stand Your Ground thing came around, this case would have been cut and dry.

It would have been M`s obligation to continue running and Z`s obligation to let him go, because under the previous laws you weren`t supposed to stand and fight if there was a way to escape.

But suddenly, under the new laws, you can turn and challenge someone you feel is threatening you!

But when one of you dies... It`s a legal mess. Because without any witnesses that saw the whole ordeal, we only have the testimony of the person who survived. And that`s never going to be biased. Of course someone who could go to jail for manslaughter and lose all his law-enforcement hopes and dreams wouldn`t try to cover his own ass.
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Male 40,349
@Altaru: We`re discussing Zimmerman`s guilt or innocence, not gun control.
The "stand your ground law" gets discussed because it applies to Z`s defense.
"Who initiated contact" is open to debate, did M turn and walk towards Z on that sidewalk? WE don`t know, do we?
M told his GF: "I`m not running" and his GF says M spoke first to Z (who was indeed following him).
Sounds just a little hot-blooded to me, but that`s MY GUESS!
(I have to emphasis that now, since the M side is running out of arguements, some (not you @Altaru) have taken to nit-picking)
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Male 3,482
[quote]So yes, he apparently DID just ask, literally: "What are you doing here". [/quote]
Also, on this topic...

I`ve been chased down by some crazy redneck mother-draters.

There are times when "What are you doing here?" means something more like "If I catch you, you`re gonna be pig food.

Not saying Z was like that, but still... Sometimes the person`s tone of voice and actions at the time matter more than the question they`re asking.
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Male 3,482
[quote]Z defends himself, push leads to shove & there you go![/quote]
And, again, this all leads back to my issue with gun control.

"Push leads to shove" leads to the situation heating up, leads to someone getting shot and killed over a minor misunderstanding.

And you claim he would have been hot-blooded... He knew he wasn`t doing anything wrong and the door of his house was within view. Sure. He totally would have attacked a docile, innocent person.
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Male 40,349
By "attacks him" I mean it could be as little as trying to grab Z`s phone. That`s still an attack though. Z defends himself, push leads to shove & there you go!
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Male 40,349
[quote]Who`s more likely to initiate contact:[/quote]
Quite honestly? With no racial bias whatsoever? A 17 year old.
Zimmerman was taking courses in Police stuff, he`d KNOW BETTER than to attack anyone, wouldn`t he?
A hot-blooded (they`re ALL hot blooded) teenager is in fact more likely to resort to violence. You even say: "especially when the adrenaline is flowing."

How did M get on top? They were fighting, that`s how. How`d the back of his head get injured? He was on his back, M was pounding on him, it gets banged on the sidewalk?

idk: I didn`t see it, when I say "jumped from behind" that`s what Z said, but it could mean a LOT of things.

How about this: After a brief arguement, Z says I`m calling the cops and turns away to use his phone. M snaps and attacks him.

Just as likely as Z attacking M. Not saying this is impossible, but...
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Male 3,482
[quote]That`s where we get the "Trayvon attacked first" idea from. Not only his testamony, but the fact that Trayvon was on top of him & beating him.[/quote]
And I`ve already proposed a counter argument to why Martin was on top:

He knocked Zimmerman down, realized there was a gun involved, and didn`t want to turn his back on someone that could stand up and shoot him from behind.

I know I sure as hell wouldn`t.
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Male 3,482
[quote]Noooo @Altaru, I`m questioning the `logic` of the pro-Trayvon side:[/quote]
Well, the logic is sound. Appearances have very little to do with someone`s abilities, all things considered, especially when the adrenaline is flowing.
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Male 3,482
[quote]So NOW you`re saying that it IS possible Trayvon could be a good fighter, but it`s still not possible he jumped Z from behind?[/quote]
I`m not saying whether he did or didn`t, but you`re making the assumption that Martin couldn`t have taken Zimmerman down in a frontal confrontation, and that`s irresponsible and downright wrong.

It also wouldn`t make any sense for Martin to initiate the conflict if Zimmerman had stopped acting in a threatening manner.

Or perhaps Martin thought like you did? "Someone`s been following me, yelling at me... This guy`s got some bulk on me, I probably couldn`t take him head-on, so I should wait for an opportunity."
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Male 3,482
5Cats, I`d also like to ask a question.

Who`s more likely to initiate contact: A lanky 17 year old with a bag of skittles and an iced tea who just wanted to get back home to his little brother and watch some movies?

OR

A 26 year old watch captain who believed that said 17 year old was doing something wrong, followed said 17 year old against the better judgement of a 911 operator (he admitted to it, keep that in mind), and had a gun on him?


ALSO: If Zimmerman was attacked FROM BEHIND, then how did he end up with an injury on the BACK of his head? Wouldn`t he have fallen face down if someone had knocked him forward from behind?
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Male 40,349
@jt: Work > IAB!
@LillianDulci: Study > IAB!

[quote]You`re making assumptions about the situation based on appearances[/quote]
Noooo @Altaru, I`m questioning the `logic` of the pro-Trayvon side: asking a question is not making assumptions, right?

@OldOllie is a very funny guy! He`s been grumpy-posting lately, idk why.

So NOW you`re saying that it IS possible Trayvon could be a good fighter, but it`s still not possible he jumped Z from behind? I`m more confused than ever! Not by the M vs Z fight, but by those arguing for M!
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Male 3,482
[quote]Again I ask: this "skinny kid" overwhelms a "big guy" after a frontal attack? Not bloody likely! After jumping him from behind? Much more likely.[/quote]
You obviously haven`t met my cousin.

Tall, lanky looking kid, maybe 6`3", looks like a toothpick...

And he can kick my ass in a head on fight.

You`re making assumptions about the situation based on appearances. That`s irresponsible and I sure as hell hope that it never gets mentioned in court.

[quote]idk what`s gotten into @OldOllie today, he`s usually quite reasonable. [/quote]
Since when? I dare you to go back and find more than two posts by Ollie that could be considered "reasonable" and aren`t filled with blatant bigotry or downright ignorance. Ollie is, and has been for quite a while, the laughing stock of any politically charged IAB post.

Even JT agrees with me about the "reasonable" crap.
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Female 2,674
Sorry for leaving the discussion yesterday, I have a test to study for and had already spent too much time here ,_, I`m not going to backtrack and respond to people since it`s been a day anyway, except I wanna say ty squrlz for the compliments xD (and 5cats too, I wanna say I`ve thought a lot of what you`ve said about this was more reasonable than some of the other people I disagree with ^^) No way I`m going to law school, I`m happy with being an engineering student :P

About the whole age thing, I`m really happy to see that people on IAB don`t use that against me. In other places I`ve debated, I`ve had older people essentially say my argument is invalid because they`re older and they know better, which I haven`t heard even once here. I think we`re more flexible at this age. If you`ll believe it, I was a right-leaning (on social issues anyway, excluding gay marriage which I`ve always supported) Christian when I first joined IAB xD
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Male 3,369
@5cats: Which leaves a gap between the initial confrontation and the actual fight. I`ve got to do some work, so let me think about this and get back to you tonight.
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Male 40,349
@JT: The Girlfriend said Trayvon asked Zimmerman "What are you following me for" THEN Z asked him "What are you doing here". So yes, he apparently DID just ask, literally: "What are you doing here".

After that (which is the most important part actually) we have only Z`s report on the matter, which is that Trayvon jumped him from behind.

That`s where we get the "Trayvon attacked first" idea from. Not only his testamony, but the fact that Trayvon was on top of him & beating him.

Again I ask: this "skinny kid" overwhelms a "big guy" after a frontal attack? Not bloody likely! After jumping him from behind? Much more likely.
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Male 3,369
5cats: "...OldOllie today, he`s usually quite reasonable."
You`re kidding, right?

"That`s because the witness didn`t see that part"

And yet HOW many times on this thread and others have people claimed Trayvon "attacked" Zimmerman?

"but is it illegal to ask someone what they`re doing?"
No, but do you seriously think he went up to him and said "pardon me young man, may I enquire as to where you might reside?" He was chasing Trayvon. If some big dude I don`t know gets out of a car in the neighborhood I`m staying or living in, starts coming after me going "hey,come here" or anything like that, I`d be seriously freaked out, especially if I was only seventeen. I honestly don`t know what I`d do.
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Male 40,349
fyi @Squirrelz: @Altaru has a history of poo disturbing, he`s young! idk what`s gotten into @OldOllie today, he`s usually quite reasonable.

[quote]at no point in this article does it give any mention of who started the fight[/quote]
@Paddy: That`s because the witness didn`t see that part.

[quote]For absolutely no reason.[/quote]
Other than bing on `Watch Duty` you mean? His reason may be flimsy, but is it illegal to ask someone what they`re doing?

"Clayton Bigsby" is hysterically funny!
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Male 1,678
"For the "naysayers":
If you cannot disprove the news, attack the newsbringer!


And you and many of your ilk have proven that true!!"

There is no news in this article, it just tells us bits and pieces that we already knew. Your whole defense of this child killer centres around who caused the confrontation and at no point in this article does it give any mention of who started the fight, it just shows us that at some point towards the end of the confrontation Martin was on top. The only evidence we have of who started the confrontation is the fact that Zimmerman was the one who followed Martin. For absolutely no reason.
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Male 15,187
Geraldo: a black boy walking alone at night wearing a hoodie constitutes reasonable grounds for suspicion that he is of violent criminal intent and you are entitled to execute him just in case. Ergo, open season on black boys wearing hoodies.

Exqueeze me? WTF?!?
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Male 1,510
It`s a conspiracy brought on by Skittles. Skittles sales are through the roof!!!
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Male 3,482
[quote]LOLZ! Nobody is as bad as Sharpton. Clayton Bigsby is a better spokesperson.[/quote]
You know... For some reason, I thought he was just a joke. I mean, seriously? A blind black man who thinks he`s white and joins a white supremacist group? Sounds like Uncle Ruckus.

Now that I know his name, though... I`m actually laughing my ass off. That`s so pathetic, it`s hilarious!

(Yes, I`m a horrible human being.)
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Male 10,338
LOLZ! Nobody is as bad as Sharpton. Clayton Bigsby is a better spokesperson.
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Male 3,482
Alright, auburnjunky, I`ll give you that...

I was typing in a hurry, and racism was the hot word for this post so it sprung to mind.

Still... I would suggest you guys put some tape over Ollie`s mouth or something. Seriously, his being on your side is about as helpful as Sharpton being on the other.
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Male 3,482
[quote]@OldOllie I don`t agree with Altaru either, but a lot of what you said is wrong.[/quote]
A lot? I think you`re giving him a little too much credit.

It`s okay, you don`t have to be nice to the moron. He doesn`t understand the difference anyway.
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Male 10,338
That isn`t racism Altaru. That was bigotry.

Racism: Whites are better than blacks.

Bigotry: Blacks steal.
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Male 3,482
[quote]Altaru being a typical arrogant, condescending liberal prick, because he can`t answer the question.[/quote]
I didn`t HAVE to answer the question. Your fellow conservative had already answered it, I believe in the very next post.

Also... I have good reason to be condescending over a mentally deficient piss-ant like you. Apparently age doesn`t always bring wisdom. Ollie is proof to the contrary.

[quote]@OldOllie: Umm, Ollie, were you trying to humorously illustrate the phenomenon described in my last post--or was that for real? LOL[/quote]
No, that`s just Ollie being Ollie. He doesn`t know any better, he has a brain like an alligator. "Snap first. That`s it, just snap first."

(Sorry all, I was REALLY hoping to keep it civil, but Ollie is my favorite intellectual punching bag. He just sets himself up so nicely, I can`t help but take the bait...)
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Male 3,482
[quote]What was Martin doing inside that gated community? He didn`t live there, and he wasn`t invited there by a resident. He was trespassing on private property.[/quote]
Well, we all know what Ollie is. TROLL ALERT!

That said... I`ll bite.

He was STAYING WITH FAMILY THAT LIVED THERE.

[quote]My guess is that he was casing the neighborhood looking for an empty condo to burglarize.[/quote]
THAT is blatant racism, or do you have another reason for guessing that without (obviously) even reading the facts of the case besides that Martin was 17 and black?

[quote]Also, there`s no evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to.[/quote]
Besides the fact that he admitted it himself?
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Male 599
@OldOllie I don`t agree with Altaru either, but a lot of what you said is wrong. I believe the kid was staying with his father who lived in the neighborhood(although I think he might have appeared to be snooping around other people`s yards), and Zimmerman did follow him after the dispatcher told him not to. Although, to clear things up, him disobeying the dispatcher`s instructions isn`t really a big deal, nor does it change anything. It might make him responsible for the kid starting a fight with him, but it has no affect on his claims that he shot him in self defense.
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Male 15,832
Altaru being a typical arrogant, condescending liberal prick, because he can`t answer the question.

What was Martin doing inside that gated community? He didn`t live there, and he wasn`t invited there by a resident. He was trespassing on private property. My guess is that he was casing the neighborhood looking for an empty condo to burglarize. If you have a more plausible scenario as to why he was there, I`d be interested in hearing it.

Also, there`s no evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to.
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Male 10,338
@JT: That "New Witness came forward and gave the statement the night of the shooting.

It is only now we are hearing about it, because of MEDIA BIAS.
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Male 6,227
@OldOllie: Umm, Ollie, were you trying to humorously illustrate the phenomenon described in my last post--or was that for real? LOL
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Male 3,482
This whole case does leave me a little paranoid. A good third of my wardrobe consists of hoodies, and I tend to put the hood up and listen to music when I`m walking alone...

Also, I do agree with whoever said it: Zimmerman lost the right to claim self-defense the minute he admitted to following Martin against the (clearly better judgement) suggestion of the dispatcher.

At that point, the MOST he should have done was stayed in his vehicle and observed the "suspicious person" until Martin reached his final destination.

But no. Big man had a gun. None of this would have happened without the gun, I can all but guarantee it.

Also, here`s a thought: If one assumes Zimmerman`s innocence, and that he was acting in self-defense, then doesn`t that mean one is assuming Martin`s guilt?

Sure, a postmortem conviction one way or another won`t have any effect on Martin`s life (or lack thereof), but still...
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Male 6,227
@JT: Interesting observation there. You may be onto something. Over decades of experience, most of us now color what others say based on previous conversations. In other words, there`s all this historical baggage serving as a subtext to the conversation, which often can distort one`s interpretation of what`s being said. Perhaps younger people have less of a problem with that.

@5Cats: Glad to see, despite political differences, you find Lillian`s demeanor on here laudable. She`s a good egg. =^.^= Oh, one thing: I forget which, but one source I read stated that Traylon Martin was killed by a single shot to the chest. Actually, I believe it was in the police report you posted.
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Male 3,369
@5cats: Yes, it`s odd, but it is the Sanford PD that has a bad history. I suppose, to be fair, let`s not judge them if we`re not going to judge either N or Z on any alleged past accounts.
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Male 3,369
@squirz4sale: TGH, if you read all the comments made on this topic (including my own) I think you`ll find the most civil comments coming from the youngest age groups.
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Male 40,349
@ivran: Well, the police arrived VERY soon after the shot, so I`d say yes. Just my hunch though, until the actual coroner`s report is viewable.
Heck we don`t even know WHERE in his body Martin got shot, now that you mention it...

IDK why there wasn`t blood on Z`s front, good point @jt!
Actually there must have been some, bloody nose and such, that it`s not mentioned IS odd...

@Squirrlez: I agree @LillianDulci does remain fairly calm under pressure. Furthermore she`s rarely insulting, which is an even bigger ++ in my books.
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Male 6,227
@Ivran: No sarcasm. Why?
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Male 599
@Squrlz4Sale
Sarcasm?
@5Cats
Do we know that he was killed instantly?
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Male 6,227
I`m happy to see that, for the most part, we IAB`ers have managed to hash this topic out civilly. Yes, there were a few insults thrown here and there, but for the most part, this discussion`s been on-topic and respectful.

Where`s Lillian? At the risk of insulting or embarrassing her, I have to say she always impresses me in her ability to calmly discuss topics like this, even in the face of stiff opposition, often from a lot of testosterone-fueled guys twice her age. You guys know she`s just 21, right? At that age, I could NEVER have debated emotional topics like this as calmly as she does. Heck, I have a hard time doing it even now.

Lillian, if you`re reading this, I hope you go on to law school. You`d make a great attorney or even judge someday.

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Male 3,369
@5cats: That`s the only scenario I can see to support Z`s claim as well, except, none of that is included in the police report. (which supports our assertion of how inadequate they are).
Also, no "smearing" from the blood stain if he was under him when he pushed him off?
Lastly, remember, if M was on top, that`s not any kind of indictment on his part. Everyone also agrees that Z was chasing M, which makes Z the aggressor, and M "standing his ground"
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Male 40,349
@jt: I actually gave that some thought a day or so ago, but I think I can speculate an "answer":

Martin is on top of Zimmerman, fighting, everyone agrees on this (I hope!) so he`s leaning forward.
When M is shot, he falls forward, not like in Hollywood, where the body flies 30` through the air, eh?
In order to get out from under the dead body, Z kinda slides him over to the side, thus leaving him face down. This also puts 1 arm underneath M, possibly the other one as well if Z is pushing on it.

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Male 3,369
@Alturu: You made some good points, but reminded me of another that`s been bugging me, and that no one`s brought up, either here or in the media. Why was Trayvon found face down? Man...my parents were right. I should`ve gone to law school. (snark)
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Male 40,349
@Ant0n: That`s a really sad case! Of course it`s NOT `nation-wide` news because:
a) the victems are Christians
b) one played computer games
c) the killers are both black
d) this case clearly deserves the `death penalty`

All go against the MSM`s agenda: Christians are bad! Gamers are violent! Blacks are the real victems! Death penalty is NEVER ok!

When you click "link" a box comes up, type stuff in there eg: "Ant0n`s Link"
When the second box comes up, paste your address there.

Ant0n`s Link
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Male 3,482
Yeah, why IS my post getting eaten? IAB`s posting system gets weird at times...
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Male 761
@5Cats

Yeah, I`ve tried deleting it, but it keeps doing the same thing...
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Male 3,482
OldOllie being his typical ignorant self... *Facepalm*

Also, just a thought I had, but say you were being pursued and decided to Stand Your Groud against the person you felt was threatening you.

Once you knock them to the ground, you become aware of the presence of a gun on their person.

Do you:

A) Turn and run, turning your back to someone who could stand up and shoot you?
Or!
B) Continue the offensive in an attempt to prevent them using the gun?

That might explain why Martin was on top of Zimmerman. He was being followed, possibly attacked if the girlfriend`s assumption about him being shoved is correct, and when he starts fighting back he realizes Zimmerman has a gun.

WHICH, BTW segways nicely into another problem I have with allowing people to carry concealed weapons. But I`m not even going to get into that here. Gun control bullsh*t is too much for me to discuss from my phone.
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Male 40,349
@Ant0n: idk how, but your post ATE my post!
Now it`s chewing on @Altaru`s too...

I said: WHY can`t all the News Companies in the WHOLE WORLD find a picture of Zimmerman smiling, or a picture of Martin at age 17?

You`d think they`d even try? Heck no! They have no intention of letting you make up your own mind.

Bias: the MSM eats it for breakfast!
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Male 761
My post keeps getting screwed up and only shows one link =/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQUoRKg0pg
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Male 3,369
@auburnjunkie: Thanks for responding to my question, but I wasn`t asking you which sensational headlines claimed Martin "attacked" Zimmerman. I was asking at what point the "new witness" claimed he saw Trayvon "attack" Zimmerman. That will result in "crickets" from you, I`m afraid. :-)

@5cats: The "come to the dark side" pic made my day. You rock.

CrakrJak: You got pwned. Like, royally in the ass pwned.
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Male 761
A "white" looking guy kills a black kid... "OMG Racist crime! Lynch him!!"

Few months before that, in another state, two black guys rob 21 yo guy and his 18 yo girlfriend in the park at night, put them on their knees and shoot them in the forehead, execution style. Than have the balls to text his family from his cellphone and EVEN show up on the crime scene the next day and give an interview to a news reporter about how dangerous the streets are....... Completely ignored by the media, just another case of "poo happens".

Racism is very one sided in this country...
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Suspects-arrested-in-double-murder/i6A_KSxa1kyF2Pz_DIN29A.cspx

Male 3,482
And that was supposed to end in "killing an unarmed teenager."

Damn finicky IAB character limit.
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Male 3,482
*5Cats

Damn phone keyboard...
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Male 3,482
Except, Crakr, that`s not even the right Trayvon Martin, as even 5Catz has admitted to being wrong about.

That aside... I don`t give a damn if it was based on Martin`s race or no, there was no good reason for Zimmerman to pursue him, especially after being told by the dispatcher to stay where he was.

Anything he did after that point became vigilante "justice." If he DID give pursuit (which he admitted to, did he not?), and all Martin knew was that some strange guy was stalking him, possibly with a gun (I guess we`ll never know if he saw it or not), then it would have been within Martin`s rights, under the same Stand Your Ground laws that are being used to protect Zimmerman, to fight back.

That`s the problem with being allowed to use lethal force when you feel "threatened" in public.

Either way, there needs to be a LOT more investigation beyond "self-defense." And he shouldn`t have been released so easily after killing an
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Male 17,512
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Male 40,349
@paddy215? Seriously?

Waaaay back on page one I said:

[quote]For the "naysayers":
If you cannot disprove the news, attack the newsbringer! [/quote]

And you and many of your ilk have proven that true!!
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Male 1,678
The Daily Mail? Seriously?
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Male 40,349
African-American Lynch Mob
Not everyone thinks lynch mobs are good ideas, eh?
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Male 514
It is awesome how everyone on I-A-B became lawyers and know the "ins and outs" of every law. Plus everyone here was an apparent witness. You all seen the entire situation and have all the facts. What the hell ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty?" Zimmerman hasn`t faced a trial yet? And why the hell are the Black Panthers sending 5,000 of their members to enact vigilante justice? The US has become everything the forefathers didn`t want it to be.
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Male 40,349
Thanks @aj & @ivran! I was so happy to find that slogan with a kitty on it!

@FoolsPrussia: Thanks! You may have milk & cookies also! (lolz!)

But serious again: yes, do investigate this! I`ve never disagreed with that, eh?
But not "trial by media". This isn`t "American Idol" where the public gets to vote on Zimmerman`s guilt or innocence.
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Male 599
@5Cats How can I say no to that face?
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Male 3,445
I`ll tell you where I do agree with 5cats, et al. I think the media has handled this whole thing abhorrently. I don`t see any evidence of a hate crime thus far, or even that Zimmerman is a racist. I just think he needs to be thoroughly investigated for what might have been a completely unnecessary killing.
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Male 10,338
@5cats: I made it to the dark side long ago, but I hate cats.
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Male 40,349
@aj, @markust @ivran too:

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Male 764
@ ivran "I don`t necessarily think what Zimmerman did was right or justified, and I do think he should be punished to some degree, but I`d rather see him walk than see our legal system manipulated so easily"

I would agree, but the fact that the case was handled so poorly, and there is lack of punishment show that our system is already easily manipulated.
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Male 10,338
Agreed Markust.

My argument started out as such, but I swayed to the right.

Oops.
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Male 4,854
I can`t believe I fell for this one. This is a prime example of how cable news works. This story is pure sensationalism. Once again the standards of journalism have been thrown out the window. What you have here is the perfect opinion media storm. On one side you have the gun loving conservatives and on the other black loving liberals. Neither side will give an inch. This will only result in people being divided further. And that my friends is exactly where the media wants you. So you can walk away like I am or you can continue to be sheep, being used in an extremely negative way, all for the purpose of making more money for cable news. I have an idea cable news - why don`t you actually do your job.
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Male 10,338
Oh look! Madest said something spacey, and unimportant again!
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Male 7,378
Oh look, AJ was an eye witness.
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Male 599
@auburnjunky
I`m more afraid that Zimmerman will be unfairly convicted just because of the pressure from the media and its audiences. There just doesn`t seem to be enough evidence right now to be able to fairly convict him with anything worse than manslaughter.

I don`t necessarily think what Zimmerman did was right or justified, and I do think he should be punished to some degree, but I`d rather see him walk than see our legal system manipulated so easily
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Male 10,338
The point is, the capital murder charge was influenced by the media, and public outcry.

I fear, that will happen in this case. The media will incite the public to call for Zimmerman`s head, and when it cannot be delivered, riots.
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Male 10,338
It was a case of the prosecution trying to over charge her.

If they would have shot for a lesser charge, they would have gotten their conviction.

Take the case that is happening in my state right now. A grandmother is being charged for capital murder, for punishing her grandchild by running her for three hours. She died as a result.

The problem is, capital murder means that the prosecution has to prove that the grandmother had the intent to kill her. That`s preposterous! She will walk.
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Male 599
@auburnjunky
I don`t think she was innocent at all, but I don`t think she should have been convicted for murder either. There simply wasn`t enough evidence.
I do think she should have gotten more than she got, though - definitely child neglect or whatever that crime is.
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Male 10,338
Well, now that I think about it, she was acquitted, so as far as the law is concerned......
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Male 10,338
"I really, really hope that the media does not influence the outcome of this man`s trial."

They tried in the Casey Anthony trial. Luckily, it didn`t work.

I`M NOT SAYING SHE WAS INNOCENT so don`t take it the wrong way lol.
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Male 599
@auburnjunky
That`s why I said `legitimately`. I really, really hope that the media does not influence the outcome of this man`s trial. That`s a very, very dangerous precedent to put in place.
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Male 10,338
@ivran: Unless he is prosecuted by the media.
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Male 599
@5Cats It probably won`t be murder regardless. The killing has to be premeditated for it to be considered murder. He very well might be charged with homicide or manslaughter, but I highly doubt there will be enough evidence to legitimately charge him for murder.
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Male 40,349
@OldOllie He was staying with his father while serving his suspension from school. He did have every right to be there.

@LillianDulci: It`s not murder if (IF) it`s self defence. That`s the whole point of the "castle" laws, to protect victems from being charged with defending themselves! To arrest someone, cops need evidence, actual facts. In this case, so far, the facts support Zimmerman`s story.

In Canada, if I frighten away a home invader by picking up a knife, I can be charged with armed assault!!! Someone kicks in my door, starts robbing my house and I go to jail. Nice eh?
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Male 40,349
[quote]the only credible witnesses are the ones that support Zimmerman`s claims.[/quote]
Untrue @markust: She`s credible in reporting what he said over the phone, I`ve never questioned or disputed that.
Somehow @LillianDulci ignores it though "I`m not gonna run" Trayvon told her. See?
BUT when she talks about what went on? How does she know. They got cut off, was it because Trayvon hung up? NO! It was because Zimmerman pushed him. And how does she know that? Was there a camera link at the time? She`s speculating, not witnessing.
"Just the facts m`am"

[quote]why would Trayvon`s father let him go to the 7-11 by himself[/quote]
@jt: His father wasn`t there, and it was only 7PM.
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Male 725
I am Mark MacPhail.
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Male 599
@auburnjunky
I remember that one. It seems like the New Black Panters are just a bunch of racists themselves.
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Male 10,338
"So far, no one has explained what business Trayvon had being inside that gated community."

He had family there.
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Male 10,338
@ivran: They can`t, but they are black, so the news will ignore it.

Anyone remember when the black panthers threatened to beat up anyone who didn`t vote for Obama outside that voting place? Didn`t think so.
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Male 15,832
So far, no one has explained what business Trayvon had being inside that gated community.
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Male 599
@McGovern1981

I still don`t understand how they can legally put a bounty on his head.
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Male 10,338
Leesah: You are my new heroine!
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Female 1,566
What disgusts me most about this whole situation is the media headlines of "BLACKS ARE UNDER ATTACK" and general national outrage while they sweep the increasing number of black-on-white hate crime right under the rug. How about five days ago when a 20 y/o black guy broke into a home and shot 90 y/o home owner Bob Strait in the face before raping his 85 y/o wife who later died of her injuries? Where is the outrage over this disgusting tragedy? How about the beginning of this month when two black teens poured gasoline over a white boy and set him on fire in Kansas? Blacks just can`t do a damn thing wrong in this country and be held responsible for it, it seems, from the streets to the White House.
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Male 10,338
"just hurry up with evidence and outcome. Im impatient"

Exactly. We all just need to shut up and wait.

The media is turning this into a feeding frenzy, appealing, falsely, to the emotions of everyone for a dollar.
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Male 25,417
just hurry up with evidence and outcome. Im impatient
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Male 10,338
"in fact, if it was that bad, why would Trayvon`s father let him go to the 7-11 by himself?"

Kids walk to the store in the ghetto all the time. I am confused by this question.

Also, if you look at the link I gave that shows Sanford`s crime rates, the glaring thing isn`t the violent crimes. It`s the non violent burglaries and robberies. That was my whole point.
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Male 10,338
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Male 10,338
"She is the only true witness to the whole encounter."

Aside from the eye witness that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him.
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Male 3,369
auburnjunky:When did the witness say Zimmerman was "attacked"?
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Male 14,331
[quote]Black Panthers put $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman`s capture and are actively recruiting up to 5,000 new members[/quote]

OOOHH so when they lynch Zimmerman do we get to have our own protests for a hate crime??? He`s jewish too right we all now how accepting the black panthers are of jewish people see the Klan and them can get together on something! The medias going to destroy this case before it even goes to court and if he isn`t thrown to the wolves there will be a riot how do you thinkn O.J. got off?
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Male 4,854
"She wasn`t there Markust. It`s that simple."

The ignorance of this statement pulled me back in briefly. She was on the phone with him. She is the only true witness to the whole encounter. She will be a key witness at the trial. But again because she doesn`t support Zimmerman`s story, to you, she is not credible.
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Male 3,369
ivran: "No, no one is being charged for assault here."

No, but if Trayvon did hit Zimmerman, some people see that as justification for shooting the kid. What they`re forgetting is, as the law is written, once Zimmerman began chasing Martin, Martin had a right to defend himself, even if that meant using his fists. Zimmerman gave up those protections under the law the moment he started chasing after him.
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Male 4,854
As fascinating as it is to see how people are reacting to this there is a beautiful day calling me.
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Male 3,369
AJ:" According to the eye witness, there was no evidence of a gun until after the assault happened."

Well, there had to be some reason why Zimmerman had injuries. Trayvon sure wasn`t walking around in his neighborhood looking to beat someone up.
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Male 3,369
@auburnjunky: Oh, and as far as your link about Sanford not being a safe place, The particular area that Trayvon`s Father lives in is quite safe. I`ve been in that neighborhood a few times, I know where that 7-11 is, one of the folf courses I play is right around the corner, and I would not have any reservations walking around there at night. in fact, if it was that bad, why would Trayvon`s father let him go to the 7-11 by himself?
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Male 10,338
She wasn`t there Markust. It`s that simple.
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Male 4,854
"There is nothing that isn`t in Zimmerman`s favor. His girlfriend doesn`t count. She wasn`t even there."

And there you have it. Just like Auburnjunky, 5Cats and CrakrJak the only credible witnesses are the ones that support Zimmerman`s claims.
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Male 4,854
LillianDulci, Zimmerman did not follow the boy with the intent to kill him. It is not murder. Using this term cancels out everything you are saying. It`s like when 5Cats says MSM or Liberal Media - it cancels out everything he says.
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Male 10,338
@jt: According to the eye witness, there was no evidence of a gun until after the assault happened.
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Male 599
@jtrebowski No, no one is being charged for assault here.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci There is nothing that isn`t in Zimmerman`s favor. His girlfriend doesn`t count. She wasn`t even there.
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Male 10,338
"You are assuming, because you`re ignoring everything that isn`t in Zimmerman`s favor."

....because the media is glossing over the facts to the contrary, because if this story ends, or turns in Zimmerman`s favor, it isn`t good for ratings, and it makes the people defending Trayvon look stupid.
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Male 3,369
auburnjunky: "Shooting someone to stop them from hitting you is not murder"

but hitting someone who`s chasing you with a gun is assault?
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Female 2,674
"Also, how the drat does Trayvon`s girlfriend know a damn thing? She wasn`t with him."

She was on the phone with him, heard what he was saying (which indicates that Trayvon felt threatened by Zimmerman), and heard what happened right before the line went dead. It doesn`t match Zimmerman`s claim of "Oh I stepped out of my car and was reading a sign when Trayvon attacked me from behind"
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Female 2,674
"Murder: I`m gonna kill a black guy today.

Homicide: I killed a guy who attacked me."

So, it`s homicide and not murder to initiate a fight with someone so that they`ll hit you and you can claim self defense when you shoot them? I don`t think so.

"No. I am not assuming. I am commenting based on unbiased EYE WITNESS accounts."
You are assuming, because you`re ignoring everything that isn`t in Zimmerman`s favor.
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Male 10,338
Also, how the drat does Trayvon`s girlfriend know a damn thing? She wasn`t with him.
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Male 10,338
"Well, you`re assuming what Zimmerman is saying is true, so."

No. I am not assuming. I am commenting based on unbiased EYE WITNESS accounts.
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Male 10,338
@Lillian:

Murder: I`m gonna kill a black guy today.

Homicide: I killed a guy who attacked me.
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Female 2,674
"Are you assuming that this happened? You KNOW what happens when you assume right?"
I don`t know what you`re responding to, so I can`t really answer your question. The assumption that the girlfriend`s assumption based on what she heard is true? Well, you`re assuming what Zimmerman is saying is true, so.

"A kid does not think this way. They run for safety."
How the drat do you know? He wasn`t an idiot and he very well could have thought that way, though we won`t know for sure because he`s dead.

"Trayvon was creeped out by Zimmerman, so he turned and sought vengeance."
It`s likely that Trayvon felt threatened by Zimmerman who had been chasing him, especially since he did try to lose Zimmerman according to his girlfriend. Zimmerman continued following/chasing and somehow caught up.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci
Yes you are. You don`t even understand the definition of murder it seems.
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Female 2,674
"Zimmerman was attacked near his home. How did he run, and yet the attack happened near his home?"

What? Trayvon was murdered near Trayvon`s home (the back door is visible from the place where he was shot), and Trayvon wasn`t near his home at the start of the 911 call because he just got back from the store. It doesn`t really matter where Zimmerman`s home was because Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon.
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Male 10,338
@Lillian: Are you assuming that this happened? You KNOW what happens when you assume right?
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Male 10,338
"and bring a crazy person to your house putting your 13 year old sibling in danger."

A kid does not think this way. They run for safety.

Trayvon was creeped out by Zimmerman, so he turned and sought vengeance.
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Female 2,674
"Shooting someone to stop them from hitting you is not murder."

So, you decide you want to murder Bob today, but you don`t want to get into trouble for it. You see Bob walking around at night, you are pretty sure he doesn`t have a gun on him but you`ve got yours on you. You follow him and chase him and push him once you caught up. He fights back and happens to be rather strong. He punches you in the nose, breaks your nose, scratches your face, etc. So you pull out your gun and shoot him in the chest and kill him. You claim self defense. That`s not murder?
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Male 4,854
LillianDulci, look up the degrees of murder. If he gets convicted it will not be for murder.
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Male 10,338
Lillian: Zimmerman was attacked near his home. How did he run, and yet the attack happened near his home?
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Female 2,674
"But that`s NOT what you would do. You would run away, not attack. That`s because you are a sane person, who does not seek out conflict. "

But you run away, they chase you, and somehow catch up to you once you thought you lost them, and then approach you and push you (assuming the girlfriend`s assumption is true). Your options? Fight back and defend yourself, or attempt to run some more when your house is in sight and bring a crazy person to your house putting your 13 year old sibling in danger.
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Male 10,338
Lillian: Shooting someone to stop them from hitting you is not murder.
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Male 10,338
Male 4,854
"If we keep playing the race card, there will never be equality in this country."

What are you talking about? This has everything to do with race and inequality.
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Female 2,674
I live in Florida, I`m not ignorant of how it works here. o_O

markust123, I really don`t see how it can be manslaughter or homicide that`s not murder. Both of those indicate that he didn`t realize shooting Trayvon in the chest would kill him.
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Male 10,338
@indisguise: But that`s NOT what you would do. You would run away, not attack. That`s because you are a sane person, who does not seek out conflict.

To flip what you said around a bit, I think I would fill someone full of holes if they attacked me.
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Male 10,338
Flaws in madest`s comic:

Zimmerman was assaulted before Trayvon was shot.
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Female 267
@ Auburnjunky - 50 break ins? Where did you hear that? As I understood it, it`s a low crime area and Zimmerman made 50 calls in the last year, most of which were false alarms.

That said, I`m in agreement with LillianDulci here. A 250 pound guy (with a gun and a record of previous assault) was following (against the orders of the 911 operator) a 150 pound kid carrying candy. If I knew I was being followed by a strange guy after dark in my neighborhood who then confronted me, I`d go on the offensive and open a can of whoop ass on him too.
Zimmerman belongs in jail.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci
Look, if you want to remain ignorant of the way the legal system works in Florida, then go right ahead, but stop spreading your bullpoo to other people.
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Male 4,854
LillianDulci, what Zimmerman did wasn`t murder. Homicide or manslaughter but not murder. You are loosing your argument by using that term.
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Female 2,674
"Anthony was detained very late into the investigation. She roamed around free for months even though a lot of people like you suspected she had killed her child."
You`re assuming I suspected her at first. For quite a while, we all thought her baby sitter had kidnapped her daughter and that she was still alive. Unlike in this case, there was no clear indicator that the kid was even dead.

"Also, quit ignoring the fact that Zimmerman is not yet a murder suspect. If he were, he would be detained."
Nope, not repeating myself again.
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Male 7,378

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Male 10,338
Markust: If we keep playing the race card, there will never be equality in this country.

It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with procedure.

Zimmerman calls police reporting a suspicious person. Dispatcher tells him not to follow Trayvon, but Zimmerman is not legally required to listen to the dispatcher, so he follows.

Cops arrive. Zimmerman has a broken nose, and a busted head. Trayvon is dead. Zimmerman, and witnesses inform cops that Travon attacked Zimmerman, and Zimmerman then shot Trayvon.

Zimmerman is not arrested, because all the evidence points to self defense.

How do you see race there?
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Male 599
@LillianDulci
Anthony was detained very late into the investigation. She roamed around free for months even though a lot of people like you suspected she had killed her child. Also, quit ignoring the fact that Zimmerman is not yet a murder suspect. If he were, he would be detained.
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Male 554
wait.. let me check to see if i care...



....


...



... nope.
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Female 2,674
"Jesus. Get past that murder thing okay?"
No. He was murdered. He`s dead, he was doing nothing wrong, thus he was murdered. Zimmerman SHOULD BE a murder suspect because it is 100% fact that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. It`s up to Zimmerman to prove that it was self defense, until then he should be detained like every other murder suspect.
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Male 599
@markust123
Because it has not yet been proven! That`s how our drating system works, christ.
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Female 2,674
"Zimmerman isn`t jailed as a murder suspect, because Trayvon`s death isn`t listed as a murder."
It SHOULD be and it`s irresponsible for it to not be.

"The police have deduced that he was killed in self defense. Until they prove otherwise, this is whatcha get."
That`s not true, it`s up to the one claiming self defense to prove that it was actually self defense. Otherwise, anyone could claim self defense and run free without proving it, provided there`s no video evidence.
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Male 10,338
Lillian: Listen to me.

ZIMMERMAN IS NOT A MURDER SUSPECT! TRAYVON`S DEATH IS NOT CATEGORIZED AS A MURDER!

Jesus. Get past that murder thing okay?
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Male 4,854
"No one`s saying this isn`t Zimmerman`s fault, but he`s not a `murderer` yet, as he has yet to be convicted."

How could this not be Zimmerman`s fault? He created the whole situation by pursuing the boy. He was told to wait for the police to arrive. When they arrived the boy was dead. If the roles were reversed Trayvon would be in jail. But because Zimmerman looks white the racist cops just went through the motions and then let him go. It wasn`t like a white guy had been shot. It was just a black kid.
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Female 2,674
ivran, what planet do you live on? We put SUSPECTS in jail all the time, with bond. We do not wait for suspected murderers to be on trial before jailing them, we detain them to prevent further murder and to prevent escaping and hiding. Then when we try them, if they aren`t convicted, I`m pretty sure they get some kind of compensation. In Florida, Casey Anthony was detained in jail until her trial, and she was NOT convicted of murder. She was convicted of enough stuff (like lying to police iirc) that it equaled approximately the same amount of jail time as she already served, so the times canceled out and she was released from jail. But the point is, she was suspected of murder, detained, and released once she was deemed not guilty. That`s how our justice system works. We don`t just let murder suspects run free until their trial.
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Male 10,338
Lillian: Zimmerman isn`t jailed as a murder suspect, because Trayvon`s death isn`t listed as a murder.

The police have deduced that he was killed in self defense. Until they prove otherwise, this is whatcha get.

Innocent until proven guilty.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci

"when it`s actually Zimmerman`s job to prove it was self defense." That`s not how it works. You have to be proven GUILTY not INNOCENT. Why do you think that Casey Anthony bitch got let off? Also, once again, the reason he was not jailed was because there was an eyewitness account that supported his self defense claim.
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Female 2,674
"Also, who said anything about running? Pursuit doesn`t necessarily mean running. Zimmerman could have been following to see what Trayvon was doing.

There is a reason that Zimmerman hasn`t been arrested in this case. The reason, is that the evidence the police have doesn`t warrant an arrest."

ZIMMERMAN said Trayvon was running, and ZIMMERMAN was following him. If you follow a running person at a walking pace, you`ll lose them quickly, so it`s logical to deduce that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon. Whatever reason Zimmerman had for chasing Trayvon is irrelevant, because Trayvon most likely felt in danger as a result which could have lead to any violence against Zimmerman.

The police know that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. Like every other murder suspect, he SHOULD BE jailed. Instead, they`re assuming that he`s telling the truth, when it`s actually Zimmerman`s job to prove it was self defense.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci Zimmerman has yet to be proven guilty, which means, as of right now, he is innocent. You can`t just send a guy to jail because you think he is guilty based on what the facts that the news media are reporting. We have a judicial system for a reason. Also, the reason people are assuming that Trayvon wasn`t acting in self defense is because there was more evidence to suggest that he wasn`t.
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Male 10,338
Also, that neighborhood had something like 50 break-ins last year. Keep this in mind.
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Male 10,338
"I`m seriously baffled by how quick some people are to assume Zimmerman`s telling the truth and it was self defense."

Because there are eye witness accounts to that effect. There are no eye witness accounts that Zimmerman just shot him.
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Male 10,338
I know right? Trayvon knocked him down, busting his head open in the back, then hit him in the face several times, breaking Zimmerman`s nose.

Also, who said anything about running? Pursuit doesn`t necessarily mean running. Zimmerman could have been following to see what Trayvon was doing.

There is a reason that Zimmerman hasn`t been arrested in this case. The reason, is that the evidence the police have doesn`t warrant an arrest. The media is warping this story in Trayvon`s favor, to garner ratings.

My fear is that, when Zimmerman never gets arrested, people start to riot in Florida.

I also fear that the police will arrest Zimmerman and jail him, to quell the misplaced anger of the citizens, which is an injustice.
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Female 2,674
"Zimmerman wasn`t just some random-ass guy. He was the neighborhood watch. Trayvon most likely knew that. Also, you still haven`t explained how pinning someone down and beating them isn`t aggression. "

Zimmerman was the self-appointed neighborhood watch as far as I know, not official. He broke rules by getting out of his car and by carrying a gun. People in the neighborhood had complained about him numerous times in the past for invading their privacy and accusing them of things they weren`t doing. Also, Trayvon was visiting his dad, he did not live there most of the time. So no, he most likely did NOT know who Zimmerman was. And Trayvon most likely felt threatened by Zimmerman, which supports a self defense case for Trayvon (if he wasn`t murdered) and not for Zimmerman.
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Female 2,674
I`m seriously baffled by how quick some people are to assume Zimmerman`s telling the truth and it was self defense, and to turn around and assume that there`s absolutely no way that Trayvon could have been acting in self defense. Zimmerman, at the VERY least, initiated the conflict by following someone who he thought was "suspicious" when it`s not his job to do so. If Zimmerman hadn`t followed, Trayvon would have gone back home with his skittles and iced tea and nothing would have happened except maybe the police would have questioned him and realized he`s harmless, because Trayvon wasn`t a criminal and wasn`t doing anything wrong. Zimmerman is the one who caused everything to happen.
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Male 4,854
"The media lynching of Zimmerman is not only irresponsible it`s dangerous."

Are you serious CrakrJak? Lynching? You actually used the word lynching to describe the cries for justice against a man who shot and killed a black kid.
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Male 599
@LillianDulci
Zimmerman wasn`t just some random-ass guy. He was the neighborhood watch. Trayvon most likely knew that. Also, you still haven`t explained how pinning someone down and beating them isn`t aggression.
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Male 599
@markust123
No one`s saying this isn`t Zimmerman`s fault, but he`s not a `murderer` yet, as he has yet to be convicted.
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Female 2,674
Trayvon was running, based on what Zimmerman said. Zimmerman was following him, based on what Zimmerman said. Thus, Zimmerman was most likely running as well. Someone following behind you may feel a little creepy, sure, it`s not reason for action though. Someone following behind you, then you start running, and he starts running, IS a valid reason to feel threatened. If you think you lost him, then all of a sudden he walks up to you and starts questioning you in a manner you feel is aggresive, then it`s perfectly fine for you to defend yourself against that person. According to his girlfriend, he was most likely pushed, which is a valid reason to feel threatened which could lead to you defending yourself with violence. Zimmerman was 100% the aggressor here, he could have and should have just stayed where he was and waited for the police. He had NO reason to follow and question Trayvon, which would cause Trayvon to feel threatened and react.
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Male 10,338
The next time you are alone, and someone is walking behind you, turn around and beat him up. Are you defending yourself, or are you randomly beating a person?

Unless of course, the guy shoots you afterwards, then the experiment failed.
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Male 10,338
If I was walking, then turned around and beat the crap out of someone that was walking behind me, I`d go to jail...

Unless the guy shot me.
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Male 10,338
Lillian, knocking a man to the ground and beating him in the face is not self defense. Also, what was Trayvon defending himself from? A creepy guy walking behind him?
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Female 2,674
"It is a self defense case until they find evidence of the contrary. Trayvon did beat the poo out of Zimmerman immediately prior to the shooting, after all. That is not murder."

It should be a murder case until self defense is proven. If what you said is true, then all a murderer has to do is claim self defense, not get put in jail, and flee+hide. Like every other murder suspect, Zimmerman should be in jail until his trial.

I wouldn`t call what Trayvon did "beating the poo out of Zimmerman", nice try at twisting it in Z`s favor though. But Trayvon was most likely acting is self defense, which you and others seem to be ignoring. Trayvon, after all, was the only one in the situation who wasn`t doing anything wrong and was being accused of being a criminal when he wasn`t, and was being followed by someone he doesn`t know who was most likely advancing in a way that Trayvon felt was threatening.
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Male 599
Also, how is the black panthers having a bounty on this guy legal? Don`t get me wrong, I think this guy should probably face some jail time, but it still needs to go through the court of law.
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Male 599
@incubus_inc Because they can claim it was racism (even though it most likely wasn`t - profiling maybe, but not racism), and get a poo-ton of viewers and ratings or whatever they`re after these days. Remember "racism" only goes one way in this country.
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Male 10,338
...and I don`t know how to do italics on IAB apparently.
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Male 10,338
<i>Mostly because Zimmerman`s still running free, most murder suspects are detained until trial, and the police seem biased in his favor.</i>

It is a self defense case until they find evidence of the contrary. Trayvon did beat the poo out of Zimmerman immediately prior to the shooting, after all. That is not murder.
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Male 3,477
And some people wonder why they are upset with the sergeant that killed 17 people, mostly children. This was only one unarmed kid.
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Female 2,674
"I don`t mean to be insensitive, but why the fack is this case getting so much attention?? Don`t most statistics say that shiit like this happens every day??"

Mostly because Zimmerman`s still running free, most murder suspects are detained until trial, and the police seem biased in his favor. They didn`t drug test him, they drug tested the dead kid. They manipulated the police report in Zimmerman`s favor and told a witness that she saw/heard wrong.
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Male 977
I don`t mean to be insensitive, but why the fack is this case getting so much attention?? Don`t most statistics say that shiit like this happens every day??
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Male 6,227
OMG. Now Gerry`s singing show tunes. Has it really come to that, people?!

~facepaw~
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Male 500
quote:

In addition, members of the Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for Zimmerman’s ‘capture,’ the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Leader Mikhai Muhammad said at a Sanford protest today after the group called for 5,000 new recruits to capture him.

The group chanted: ‘Justice for Trayvon!’ as well as ‘Black Power!’
/quote

Ummm ok. How is this not racist and not a criminal offense? Were it the other way around, the said organisation would have been dismantled by strike teams already.
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Male 181
This account could be completely accurate and change nothing. What`s being protested (at least initially) is the lack of police investigation. Zimmerman`s 911 call has him claiming his intention to pursue Martin. At the time of this witness` sighting, the unarmed teen may have been the one `standing his ground.`
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Male 3,445
If Zimmerman is able to defend himself under Florida law, why couldn`t Martin defend himself from whoever was following him?
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Male 1,008
@gerry for some reason i imagined a singing/dancing frog in a top hat with a cane while i read your post
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Male 39,593
5Cats .... CarkarJak....
Stop confusing the issue with facts. You`re not gonna sell any newspapers with the dull, unexciting truth.

[que music & lights]
Give `em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle dazzle `em
Give `em act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate
Give `em the old hocus pocus
Bread and feather `em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?

What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you`re just disgusting ?
Razzle dazzle `em
And they`ll never catch wise!

Give `em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle dazzle `em
Give `em a show that`s so splendiferous
Row after row will grow vociferous

Give `em the old flim flam flummox
Fool and fracture `em
How can they hear the truth above the roar?
Throw `em a fake and a finagle
They`ll never know you`re just a bagel,
Razzle dazzle `em
And they`ll beg you for more!
[/music]
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Female 3,726
The media lynching of Zimmerman is not only irresponsible it`s dangerous.
____

@CrkJk: Dangerous, like killing a kid who`s armed with skittles and tea????
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Male 1,008
well obviously,if you haven`t already convicted this guy in your mind you are a racist and a troll
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Male 17,512
5cats is correct here. The rest of you should be ashamed that you`re rushing to judgment based on rumor and innuendo. The media lynching of Zimmerman is not only irresponsible it`s dangerous.

The racial tension over this has been wound up tighter than Dick`s hatband, somebody might snap thinking they see Zimmerman on the street and kill them. The amped up rhetoric has to stop.
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Male 13
didn`t the 911 dispatcher tell zimmerman to NOT fallow trayvon so how is that standing your ground to me it sounds like trayvon was the one standing his ground and trying to protect his self from some one that was chasing him
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Male 3,285
Well, i gotta give it to 5cats. His trolling actually got a bit this time. And a pretty big one.
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Male 848
$50 dollar bounty for 5cats` capture! 8-)
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Male 3,285
ahh 5cats. Showing his racism every day.
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Male 4,854
If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck like the police told him to the boy would be alive. End of story.
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Male 2,516
pages and pages before that it`s "just an assumption; UNLIKE YOU" . And then has the nerve to shamelessly call other people biased.

You are insane.
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Male 2,516
I love how 5Cats dismisses everyone`s accounts with "WERE YOU THERE?!" or "pure speculation", but only if it states that Zimmerman chased the kid on his truck, instigated a fight and later admitted to shoot the kid. All of these things in the police report he keeps linking to.

On the other hand, whenever there`s something that supports Zimmerman innocently shooting in self defence: oh well that`s just good journalism. That`s not "MSM", that`s all truth. In fact, here`s some more truth he`s pulled out of his a*s:

"And how did a 250 pound man catch this spry teen" - why on his truck of course, as reported by the 911 dispatch.

"Martin saw the gun on the holster, reached for it, and the gun went off" - in spite of Zimmerman admitting he shot Martin

That`s some fine objectivity 5Cats, bringing time and time again irrelevant and fictitious assumptions that you play as facts, having admitted pages and pages
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Male 714
i saw an article in the paper about 2 british tourists who accidentally walked into a black neighbourhood and were murdered. racist double murder?
was this racist? were they targeted because of their colour? did this even make the news in the US?racist double murder?
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Male 40,349
Oh hey ya!
There it is! He was taken to SPD!
How`d I miss that earlier? The curse of skimming.

There it is! Handcuffed, taken "downtown" and questioned. How exactly is this "inadiquate" eh?
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Male 40,349
Oh! Thanks @Gerry1!
In another report it is said that he was taken to the station after receiving EMS treatment for his injuries.
Yes, his injuries, which are well documented.

I keep saying it will all come out in the Grand Jury, but will that satisfy the lynch mob? Like Rodney King? I doubt it.

PS: his mother is hispanic, and his father is a Jew. No wonder Al Sharpton hates him!
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Male 39,593

5Cats - on page 3 of the report it states Zimmerman was "secured in handcuffs".
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Male 40,349
Link To The Police Report

(can`t quote and link in same post, eh?)

Oh heck, the "cuffs and station" came from some news report, it`s not in there.
Oh well. I tried!
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Male 40,349
[quote]unstable vigilante[/quote]
Again, @herpaderp, you personally KNOW Mr. Zimmerman? What evidence do you offer for your alligation?
[quote]the issue remains about how quickly the police were to accept Zimmerman`s story[/quote]
[quote]Zimmerman wasn`t detained after the shooting[/quote]
First one: Possible issue, but it makes little difference in determining Zimmerman`s guilt or innocence, eh?
Second one: Um, wrong?
They put him in handcuffs. They took him "down to the station" and questioned him. Why`d they let him go? Possibly because he was innocent? That there was eye-witness confirmation of his story? That there was (at the time) no evidence to charge him with any crime?

Things might chnge, he could still be charged, he could indeed be guilty! Evidence, not emotions, are required to PROVE that.
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Male 49
HOWEVER, the issue remains about how quickly the police were to accept Zimmerman`s story and how, after a young, slender, unarmed man was shot and killed, the police let the gunman walk. I actually a lawyer (non-practicing) and it seems as though the SYG law would be invoked as an affirmative defense after the shooter faces charges. Here, Zimmerman wasn`t detained after the shooting and the general perception is that the police simply looked at a dead black man and didn`t care enough to investigate adequately. That is cause for concern and that fits a larger narrative about the police and the black community.
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Male 49
@Duck, and I think that is really the issue. I can`t imagine anyone really trying to defend Zimmerman`s behavior--he clearly pursued Martin unjustly and the entire encounter is his fault. Zimmerman is an unstable vigilante who may have genuinely thought that he was doing what was best for his community. I don`t really care whether he is a racist or if he was stereotyping. Zimmerman is a fringe character and this was an isolated event. Martin should never have been put in this position but this case is not representative of an epidemic of innocent young black men being murdered for their race.

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Male 40,349
Oh @Baalthy, here`s MORE:
"He had no reason to run, his relatives lived there. You`re making stuff up in support of your fellow white man."
He didn`t run. Who said that? @madest! You boosom buddy!
"Had no reason to run? But he DID run, idk why."
Who said this?
Little Ol` ME!

Awaiting an apology. Yup, it`ll be here. Any day now...
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Male 718
Profworm, i would be FINE with letting the court figure this out.. but when the black panthers put a 10k bounty on this guys head to (capture) him and kill him that my friend is above and beyond awful. we have a thing called law and order going on here in america and when those racist assbags put a BOUNTY on someones head so they can murder him.. that just isnt right. and as the picture i posted below shows, other people are trying to harass him too.. WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON! this country is dratED when a news organization can turn people into a lynch mob as easily as they do. isnt ANYONE besides us even questioning what really happened before blindly assassinating this guy?
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Male 40,349
Hey Baalthy: Here`s a quote for you:

"I`ve never argued against the "chase" part. Ever. It was wrong and I`ll say that every time."

Guess who said that?
F*ck-*ss! it was in reply to YOUR slander to boot!
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Male 718

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Male 3,310
LOL, it`s come to the point that if I see shock-jock Al Sharpton on the case, I know to look the other way.
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Male 15,832
@herpaderp062 Actuallyk Zimmerman is half Hispanic and half Jewish, but the liberal media is portraying him as white as are all the black race hustlers who want to see him lynched.

There isn`t enough evidence on either side to reach an intelligent and informed conclusion, so all the racist liberals -- black and white alike -- are automatically condemning the white(er) guy as being a cold-blooded racist murderer based on nothing but their knee-jerk bigotry.
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Male 40,349
Lies @Baalth? That`s all you got?

I`ve outlined a POSSIBLE timeline on another thread. Go find it yourself you drating liar, I`ve given up on you.
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Male 40,349
[quote]He was hiding, after being chased.[/quote]
Um, @Baalthy? That`s far and away the dumbest comment on this topic yet.
What `fact` supports him "hiding?" Did the GF say he was hiding? no.
Did Zimmerman say he was hiding? no.
Did a witness say he was hiding? no.

Did you watch the "dad walk" video or are you comming into this topic "cold" as it were?
The distance from the gate to the place of the shooting is very short. There literally is "no place to hide" ok?
The spot where the shooting took place is in the middle of an open area.

[quote]What convoluted play by play have you got in your head where the kid did not try to get away?[/quote]
Now you`re just spouting crap @Baalthy. QUOTE ME! Quote me where I`ve said "he didn`t try to get away" (except that sentence obviously). Zimmerman said so, the GF said so, HE DID try to `get away` and the GF reports that he `lost him` at one point.
L
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Male 39,593

"looting" not `looKing`

sorry `bout dat
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Male 584
You all need to stop going all 12 angry men on this thing. Lets the courts see the evidence without media spin, then we`ll all know a lot better what really happened.
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Male 4,546
"And how did a 250 pound man catch this spry teen? Why does the other side never answer that?"

He was hiding, after being chased.
Answered.

"Are you going after him"
"Yeah"
"We don`t need you to do that".

Why the heavenly drat do you think Zimmerman was lying to the dispatcher about chasing him? What convoluted play by play have you got in your head where the kid did not try to get away?
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Male 3,625
I don`t know, herp. Remember that video of an MMA fight where the skinny guy beat the crap out of the sumo wrestler?

Really, because there are no real reliably accounts of the situation for either side as no one was physically there, they only saw the aftermath, we have to let the police do their investigation, use due process, and say that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.
We can conjecture all we want about whether he is guilty or not, but it won`t change what has happened or what will happen.
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Male 4,546
5 cats:
Actually I correct my figures whenever I`m wrong all the time. Usually on somewhat complicated economic principles where latest data is hard to come by.

You on the other hand.... sorry to keep going back
to this, but: 0.3 - 0.1.

As in "it is 0.3 minus 0.1 watts hotter", would it be hotter as NASA says, or colder, as you say NASA`s study says?

That`s what happens to information when it goes through the 5 Cats filter. Every time, it comes out backwards.
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Male 40,349
No new TV for YOU @Gerry1! Your white be-hind better stay well hidden if you know what I mean!

Correct @Ant0n! Obama is half & half? He`s Black! Zimmerman`s half & half? He`s White!

@herpaderp: Others guess his weight at 160, only the Coroner`s report will have the correct, provable number, eh?
Even at 140, he could still be fairly strong, I know I was at 17 (135lbs, 6`0") More so at 18 (145) after that? not so much, lolz!
And how did a 250 pound man catch this spry teen? Why does the other side never answer that? (except to suggest the truch was used, which is impossible, see the "Dad Walk` video)

@robosnitz, I think they look for Korean and Jewish crap to destroy, iirc... and WalMarts to loot!
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Male 39,593

Imagine the fun it will be when it goes to trial and Zimmerman is found not guilty.
We can all get new tv`s in the riots and looking.

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Male 2,737
When do they start burning down their neighborhoods? That`s some good TV right there!They whip themselves into such a frenzy,they destroy their own crap.Priceless.
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Male 49
5Cats, mentioning that Martin was 6`2" really only demonstrates how much larger Zimmerman was. 6`2" and 140 lbs?!?!?!? That kid is TINY. We are talking supermodel proportions. To suggest that he was in some way physically dominant over a 5`9" 250 lb guy is insane.
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Male 49
@OldOllie, actually, Zimmerman is hispanic. And I think the fact that Zimmerman hunted down a 17 year old, 140 lb kid in spite of a 911 dispatcher instructing him not to and then confronting the teen (who was armed with an iced tea and skittles) in a manner that left the kid dead is a reason for Jackson and Sharpton to "side against the white guy" other than Zimmerman being white.
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Male 761
The funny thing is, the guy isn`t even truly white, his mother is Hispanic, yet everyone jumps on the bandwagon about how this is a racist crime because he`s "white".
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Male 1,008
its hard to imagine, if the initial investigation didn`t have an eyewitness collaborating zimmermans story, that he wouldn`t have been charged. Nowadays police are more aware than ever the kind of scrutiny they are going to get when a black man is shot by someone who looks white and isnt charged, they either have had solid evidence or zero common sense.
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Male 39,593

Zimmerman doesn`t stand a chance. This much public outcry means the authorities are going to charge someone just to shut the rabble rousing crowds up.

This is the modern day equivelant of a lynch mob.
The dead kid is black, the shooter is not, therefore it MUST be racist and we can all have a fun protest. Al Sharpton can get some more time in front of tv cameras and news stations will make a ton of money with advertisers while they stir the pot.
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Male 40,349
@Baalthy "logic" The other side made a mistake! Therefor I am 101% correct! (in my belief that the moon is made of cheese)

AND Unlike YOU I`ve admitted my mistake and apologised, something you`ve NEVER done at IAB @Baalthy... you always, and I mean every time, double down with insults and slander until the topic is forgotten.
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Male 4,546
5 Cats logic:
"The MSM is selective in which pictures it shows you. Here`s one that`s outright falsified from my side."
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Male 15,832
[quote]...an anonymous witness to Martin`s death claimed that he may have attacked Zimmerman before the shooting at a gated community in Florida.[/quote]
...confirming EXACTLY what the police determined from their initial investigation. Of course, that won`t discourage those despicable racist bastards All Sharpton and Jesse Jackson from siding against a white guy for no other reason than that he`s white.
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Female 2,674
I like how the only sources/witnesses/accounts that IAB`s conservatives believe are true are the ones that support the murderer. o_O
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Male 40,349
Well said @FleaMan!

Hey @Sephiroth: A lot of the information in that article was also in other publications, are THEY all wrong too? What? The entire news industry is completely wrong about everything???

And people question MY sanity...

fyi: they`re quoting part of a police report that other `news` services are choosing to not report. How does that make this fact less factful than other facts that come from the same report? eh?
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Male 1,008
it doesnt matter if george washington saw martin attack zimmerman, there are going to be those who deny it, and vise versa too. i think its probably 70/30 zimmermans fault but the law is on his side.
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Female 2,674
I was going to say almost exactly what xiquiripat said o.o
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Male 718
you know, im pleasantly surprised over I-A-B over this, when i was on youtube watching the 911 videos about (Trayvon) being shot, everyone was dratING CRUCIFYING the guy who shot him, talking about how evil he was ect, how he had NO REASON AT ALL to do that to him, like THEY was actually there.. and whats more? one guy went as far as to THREATEN the shooter saying (he wont be alive much longer, ill see to that) while another user actually posted the guys HOME ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER. yet NONE of these people know what really happened, they just ASSUMED the guy was a racially-charged killer, which if the guy DID shoot the black kid thinking he was robbing people in cold blood, thats EXACTLY WHAT HE DID! he ASSUMED the kid was doing wrong in reality he wasnt, but we dont even KNOW if he did shoot him in cold blood or not! of COURSE the blacks are gonna come out of the wood-work and scream racist, but thats their token card they throw out in times of trouble..I dont think he did it!
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Male 955
Posting trash news from the daily mail and promoting that as facts and evidence is a new low for 5Cats it seems.
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Male 40,349
My bad @squirrelz! I`m not on facebook, so I couldn`t check it.

However, the fact remains that ther seems to be no photo of Trayvon less than 3 years old...

Myself, I didn`t post it as "proof" of anything, except that the MSM is highly selective in which pictures we`re "allowed" to see...
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Male 6,227
Uhhh, 5Cats? This gang-banger photo you keep posting? That isn`t the Trayvon Martin who was killed by Martin Zimmerman.

Apparently, some conservative bloggers found the photo on a Facebook page of a Trayvon Martin and they`ve gone ballistic with it, plastering on every far-right blog they can find as "proof," apparently, that Trayvon Martin got what he deserved. Only problem is, it`s the wrong Trayvon Martin.

If you check the details of the Facebook page, the boy posing in the photo is several years younger than the Florida Trayvon Martin and attends "Myers Middle School"--which is either in Albany NY, Savannah GA, or Louisville KY.
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Male 39,593

Your best clue to finding the real truth in this matter...

Whatever side Al Shapton is on, take the other side.
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Male 40,349
[quote]btw no other news agency is touching this story...you know why?[/quote]
For the same reason the MSM refuses to mention Martin was 6`2"? Or sho recent pictures of him? Most are from when he was 14, eh?

So he was being beaten bloody, but the shooting is still murder? THAT also assumes there was never a struggle for the gun btw, which could be proven (or not) by forensics.

@carmium: thank you for being a voice of reason!
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Male 40,349
[quote]you talk about looking at the facts then you jump right into assuming how Martin "got the jump" on him.[/quote]
@Jamie76, you`re getting to be as troll-ish as @swoopy, eh? What did I actaully say?
[quote]Isn`t it more likely that...[/quote]
See the difference?

[quote]Zimmerman was the aggressor, he was the offender[/quote]
You were there? You saw the whole thing?

[quote]Zimmerman chased this kid down.[/quote]
Woah! A 250 pound 28 year old chases a 17 year old "athelete" who has a big head start? Sign that guy up for the Olympics!

[quote]being the pansy he is, the guy who was arrested for attacking a police officer[/quote]
You know him personally? He`s a pansy? What are you, homophobic or something?
As for the "arrest" he was accused of "passively resisting" arrest, the charge was EXPUNGED. Go look it up!
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Female 6,381
Two observations:
1) It`s dubious that shooting Trayvon was a reasonable response to whatever happened, but:
2) There sure are a LOT of people who seem to know exactly what Trayvon did and didn`t do despite NONE of them actually being there. By "justice" they mean their pre-judged assumptions carrying the day and not evidence or witness reports.
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Male 2,345
btw no other news agency is touching this story...you know why?

because it is BS.

but let us put aside the news stories for a second and ponder this.

if you were walking along at night and someone 100lbs heavier than you was following you, so youu run, they run too, after you.

at what point would you rightfully assume you have a RIGHT TO STAND YOUR GROUND?

Zimmerman was pursing this kid, this kid was scared as confirmed by the girl he was on the phone with.

Martin defended himself and Zimmerman, being the pansy he is, the guy who was arrested for attacking a police officer, got worked, so he pulled out his gun and murder this teenager.

tell me you would not have defended yourself if someone was chasing you down at night?
I would and this guy would have shot me too or you.
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Male 2,345
5Cats

wait wait wati...you talk about looking at the facts then you jump right into assuming how Martin "got the jump" on him.


here is a piece of fact you are missing.

Zimmerman chased this kid down.

Martin ran away from him.

Martin, not Zimmerman was being threatened by this action.

MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO STAND HIS GROUND AND DEFEND HIMSELF FROM SOMEONE THAT WAS ACTING AGGRESSIVELY TOWARDS HIM.

what you white people think that stand your ground only applies to you against minorities?

5cats, it is panfuly obvious you are a racist but come on even you canot defend the chasing down of a teenager and the killing of him.

let me ask you this.

if zimmerman had remained safely in his car as instructed, would trayvon have attacked him?

would YOU defend yourself against someone that chased you down late at night and assume the person had ill intent towards you?

you know the
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Female 313
I`m not surprised 5cats would post something from the dailymail.
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Male 2,345
Martin had a right to utilize stand your ground as well.

he was running away from Zimmerman who chased him down and confronted him in a threatening manner.

Trayvon wa entitled at that point to defend himself and utilize the stand your ground law.

Zimmerman was the aggressor, he was the offender, the one that actively pursued a teenager that was doing him NO HARM.

Martin, according to the Stand Your ground law, had every right at that point to meet force with force and if he did and was beating the crap outta Zimmerman, then zimmerman deserved it and Martin was right to defend himself.

Zimmerman bit off more than he could chew, picked a fight with the wrong person and when he was getting beat up for provoking a kid a 100lbs smaller than him he SHOT AND MURDERED the teen.

Zimmerman needs to be tried and convicted and sentenced to death.

oh what, only Zimmerman can claim Stand Your ground????

yeh you didnt think of it
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Male 1,754
Your inability to critically think and understand why that situation happened at all is why people look down on you. I`m waiting for your next liberal comment.
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Male 40,349
For the "naysayers":
If you cannot disprove the news, attack the newsbringer!

It saddens me that the "open minds" of liberalism are utterly shut when the news doesn`t fit their world views. idk why I`m surprised, it happens every time!
Eeew! Faux news! Eeew! (or whomever)

The FACT is, it seems that asecond witness is saying Martin was ON TOP of Zimmerman, beating his face. Zimmerman, NOT Martin was screaming for help.

[quote]twice his size[/quote]
Listen to what you`re saying @xiquiripat: Martin was able to overpower the larger man and pound on his face after being attacked? Isn`t it more likely that he "got the jump" on Zimmerman to gain such an advantage?
Martin is a skinny, helpless kid, yet he overwhelms a frontal attack by a guy "twice his size"???
Where are the witnesses saying Zimmerman attacked Martin? Oh right, the police "silenced" them...
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Male 1,754
5cats posted this? Shocked.
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Female 2,602
Ah, the `good` old Daily Heil. They make Hitler look like a liberal reformer.
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Male 49
What xiquiripat said. 5Cats, you have posted some stupid stuff here, but this is probably the dumbest.
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Male 2,422
If Martin did attack Zimmerman it was likely HE was acting in self-defense. After all he was being chased down by a belligerent individual twice his size in the dark. He had every right to try and protect himself from Zimmerman.
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Male 52
Can`t click the picture, I see the link below though.
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Male 40,349
Link: New Witness Confirms Zimmerman`s Account (Pic+) [Rate Link] - We`ve heard lots from one side, here`s something from the other.
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