Barack Obama On Faith In The US [pic]

Submitted by: Buiadh 5 years ago in

I"ve said it once, Obama isn"t a great President. But he"s the best out there right now.
There are 181 comments:
Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Actually, CrakrJak, we might reach some common ground on this subject...maybe.

Could you begrudgingly accept that, whatever your complaints about the "lifestyle" of homosexuality, that allowing us to live lives that don`t produce children so that you are unrestricted in your child-bearing choices is preferable to forcing us to live lives that we don`t want to live, produce children that we don`t want to have, and in turn lead to you being forced to not have children you do want to have?

That`s how it boils down; either I can be be free to be happy and childless and you can be free and happy to have children...or I can be forced into an unhappy child-bearing lifestyle, and you can be forced into an unhappy childless lifestyle (or we both have the children anyway, one happily, one not, and we all end up poor in an overpopulated future).

Long story short: why force me to have your kid?
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Male 83
Always the point I make - so many push to have "faith" put "back" into the US Government, to legislate these "values". As they say, be careful what you wish for - for which faith will be the one making the laws?

Rick Santorum recently talked about how a speech by JFK made him want to vomit - but he fails to understand that many were afraid that JFK, as a Catholic, was going to be merely a mouthpiece for the Pope. This is why JFK so strongly asserted a separation of Church and State - so that a Lutherans, Mormons, Southern Baptists, and so forth wouldn`t have to worry that the US presidency would create a Catholic state and force Catholic values upon the nation.
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Male 1,737
Old testament is just the history leading to the new one. The new testament changed the way everything is to be done. I don`t get why they keep bringing up the old to attack the new, it`s redundant.
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Male 255
@Crakrjak:`I posed a question, not a statement of fact`. You equated homosexuality with eugenics. It`s your opinion I disagree with not the facts.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Two people in love wanting to cement that relationship and build a family is the meaning of marriage, surely. Why does the gender of the two people matter?

To claim we would "trash" marriage if were given access to it is an insult to us.

Besides, we couldn`t trash it any more than you straight people have, could we?

Have you ever been married, CrakrJak? You still refuse to answer. Divorced, perhaps? Or never married.

It really is a shame, being as old as you are and still haven`t met a soulmate, or married and then divorced, ruining that sanctity of marriage you`re always harping on about.

One of those two apply. We all know it. Because if you were married right now, you would have said so to support your authority on the subject.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Gay`s hijacking the word marriage effects society."

Affects it how? And I thought you said you didn`t care?
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Sorry CrakrJak, not thick, just misread. I apologise.
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Male 18
I think most reasonable people agree that committed gay couples should absoluetly get the same legal rights as straight couples. (special visiting rights at hospitals, filing a single tax return etc.) But people want to change the meaning of the word.
Markust; -...This whole argument comes down to a word. Why do gays care so much about a word if they can get the same rights? Also words have definitions.
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Male 17,512
[quote]One religion can not be used to make rules in America.[/quote]

Neither should the minority gays/lesbians be allowed to distort the rules in America either. Marriage shouldn`t change just because you`re claiming a right you`ve never had, get a civil union, leave the word marriage out of it.
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Male 17,512
markust: Please don`t be an idiot, I was responding to aikman`s misinterpretation and you damn well know it. Now you`re just being a putz trying to twist it around.

Gay`s hijacking the word marriage effects society. Get a civil union instead, if you say, "They aren`t the same", then lobby to make them so.

Misusing the word marriage, demeans it and makes it seem worthless. I believe that`s the whole intent, not to make gays equal, but to trash the word and it`s sanctity.

I`ve answered this question many times before, so quit repeatedly asking, the answer it`s going to change no matter how many times you ask.
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Male 17,512
Musuko: Are you a moron ? When does MLK = JFK ?

MLK Jr. = MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

JFK = JOHN F. KENNEDY

Please tell me you really aren`t that thick.
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Male 4,850
"And don`t tell me some religious reason because there are many religious organizations that support gay marriage. One religion can not be used to make rules in America. We are not a Christian Theocracy."

I probably should not have added this to my question since I am asking you why you specifically do not support gay marriage. Adding this I already answered my question.
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Male 4,850
"So why are you against gay marriage? We`re not asking you to come to the actual weddings. We`re not asking you to even support it."

I`m curious also CrakrJak? Why are you so against allowing gays and lesbians to get married? There are some gay people that have been together more than 50 years in a loving and committed relationship. Why can these people not get married? Yet Britney Spears can get married for 55 hours. The definition of marriage is not changing at all. Zero zilch. Allowing gays to get married does not affect straight couples in any way. Not one bit. What is the big deal? And don`t tell me some religious reason because there are many religious organizations that support gay marriage. One religion can not be used to make rules in America. We are not a Christian Theocracy.
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Male 4,850
@CrakrJak, "markust: I don`t turn people`s questions into statements and try to berate them over it. You must have me confused with someone else."

I was commenting on your statement, "Please learn how to read a sentence without adding your own inner monologue to it". My comment was how you do this all the time. Case in point you just read your own statement and added a new inner monologue for it. You seriously are cracking me up today.

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Female 2,228
What Musuko said.

Also everything I`ve put forth is based on Empirical facts, Evidence and Reason. You outta try it sometime, it might improve your disposition. Old man, your generation`s worst tendencies are going extinct, and it`s time to embrace that fact. Things are gonna be completely different (and better) under *our* stewardship. "Just because a man`s old doesn`t make him wise"-Granny Zira
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Male 19
He`s the best President for me
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"I was actually alive when MLK Jr. was shot"

According to your profile, the oldest you can be is 49 years and 364 days old. That puts your birth at March 9th 1962 at the very earliest.

JFK was shot on November 22 1963.

That means the oldest possible age you could have been during the assasination was 20 months old. Less than two years old.

That`s the extreme upper end of your stated age range.

So sure, you might have been alive during the shooting...but you couldn`t have experienced it in any meaningful way, any more than I could claim to have experienced the fall of the Berlin Wall when I was four years old.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Musuko: I don`t personally care what you do as long as you don`t shove your gay love in my face."

So why are you against gay marriage? We`re not asking you to come to the actual weddings. We`re not asking you to even support it.

Just stand back out of the way and stop being against them.

Can you do that? Surely you can, if you don`t care.
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Male 2,850
@broizfam

Thank you. :) Never worry about providing unwanted support, at least not with me. Support is always welcome, even when not needed. You never know when you might suddenly need it.
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Male 17,512
broizfam: I haven`t `judged` anyone. I`ve merely stated facts, facts coming right from people`s own mouths in the case of Rev. Wright and James Cone.

markust: I don`t turn people`s questions into statements and try to berate them over it. You must have me confused with someone else.
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Male 17,512
Musuko: I don`t personally care what you do as long as you don`t shove your gay love in my face.

QueenZero: Just because you will not see reason and ignore inconvenient facts, doesn`t make you disgusting, it`s your infantile nature of debate that does that. Young woman, I have a lot more life experience than you, I was actually alive when MLK Jr. was shot, before man walked on the moon, when Jimmy Carter wrecked our economy and actually remember watching as the Berlin wall fell.

So perhaps you should have at least the common courtesy not to insult me, until then you`re known as QueenZero.
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Male 2,850
@Kilgore89

I`m genuinely pleased to hear what you`re describing. If I could ask one thing, however, it would be to branch out into secular sources of information too.

This isn`t an effort of conversion, as you already seem to be applying a rational thought process to your beliefs, and if you`re doing that I can`t protest, even when I don`t agree with your conclusions.

It`s not even an attempt to push you towards science, because although science is a part of what I`d hope you`d explore, there also exists a vast library of secular philosophy and social observation for you to explore.

You don`t have to, of course. I`m just a stranger on the internet. But any opportunity for a rational thinker to expand should be encouraged!
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Male 6,060
@Musuko42 - If living as a homosexual fulfills you then, by all means, do so without letting the CrakrJaks of the world get you down. I`m guessing you already do so without my support but you should know that there are many of us who do support you, despite our not sharing that lifestyle.
@CrakrJak - Stop judging people who hurt no one. And actually look up eugenics and understand what it was before invoking it!
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Male 4,850
@CrakrJak, "Please learn how to read a sentence without adding your own inner monologue to it. "

This is the funniest thing you have ever said. And here I thought you had no sense of humor. You, who does this all the time, has the nerve to tell someone else not to do this. Well played you nut ball.

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Female 2,228
Crakrjakass I`ve withheld my disgust at your ignorance at what you do not understand and at inconvenient facts you choose not to accept for too long. You are indeed what other posters have dubbed thee, Crakrjackass, for there is no reasoning w/ you. Oscar Romero, archbishop, liberation theologian and candidate for sainthood.
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Female 385
...But religion and science don`t overlap. At all. Religion is directly opposed to science.

Religion is about starting with an idea, then looking only for evidence that supports it and rejecting evidence against it. This has spawned the entire concept of "apologetics", where people try to justify the discrepancies between reality and religion.

Science starts with facts, then attempts to describe why those facts are so. It tests things, and retests things, and tests them again, then sends it to other people to do even more testing. Science actively strives to prove itself wrong at every step. Only after you have tried to break it every way you know how do you accept that it even might be true.

Religion is never interested in falsifying itself, and never interested in changing. The two concepts of science and religion have no common ground to overlap on.
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Male 194
My school is holding a guest lecture called "Google and God" about how science and religion overlap and together can lead to better understanding of faith and abstract concepts like "the soul".
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Male 194
@Musuko

"...do you utilise other sources of information (such as other religious teachings, philosophy, scientific studies into sociology, psychiatry, etc) in the same way? "

In fact, this is becoming more and more common. I attend an Anglican University College in Canada where we offer Jewish and Islamic studies so that students can be exposed to other faiths. We also have a yearly conference in which we invite leaders from Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths to talk about our common beliefs and the fact that we need not be mutually exclusive.

Also, there was recently an international interfaith conference in which representatives from all major belief systems including atheists were participants. The whole point of the conference was to work together to find ways to move beyond religous conflict and broaden our understanding of other faiths as well as our own.

Actually my school is holding a guest lecture called "Google and God&q
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Musuko: I`ve never proposed that homosexuals be forced to act as straights do, have children, etc.."

Then what alternative DO you want us to live as if you don`t want us to live as homosexuals?
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Male 646
Christians who cherry pick their beliefs out of Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Mosaic Law in general should attend synagogues, not churches.
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Male 17,512
aikiman: I posed a question, not a statement of fact. I never said that homosexuals couldn`t have children.

Please learn how to read a sentence without adding your own inner monologue to it.

If i asked, "What if dolphins could fly ?" that isn`t making a statement that they do.
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Male 17,512
Musuko: I`ve never proposed that homosexuals be forced to act as straights do, have children, etc..

Your whole premise is contrived, your conclusion flawed.
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Male 255
@CrakrJak: Nice straw Man there Crakr. It may suprise you to hear that homosexuals can still have children. Think of them a bit like catholic priests who could procreate but have an inherent reason not to. Homosexuality was outlawed in the past in the same way that paedophilia wasn`t; As a crude way of assuring the growth of a population and the support of a family.
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Male 17,512
Musuko: [quote]I`m letting you have children without guilt of increasing the population. I`m personally doing you a favour; I`m negating the environmental impact of any children you choose to have.[/quote]

I have no feelings of guilt about the world`s population or environmental impact. You aren`t doing me or anyone else a favor by not having kids. If that`s what you want to believe, fine, but the impact or lack thereof is so minuscule that it`s laughable.

[quote]all us gay people not having children is helping to stop or delay our nations eventually having to enact something like China`s restrictive one child per couple policy.[/quote]

That would never fly in America and the fact that you believe it would plays right into the eugenics issue again.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Actually, CrakrJak, we might reach some common ground on this subject...maybe.

Could you begrudgingly accept that, whatever your complaints about the "lifestyle" of homosexuality, that allowing us to live lives that don`t produce children so that you are unrestricted in your child-bearing choices is preferable to forcing us to live lives that we don`t want to live, produce children that we don`t want to have, and in turn lead to you being forced to not have children you do want to have?

That`s how it boils down; either I can be be free to be happy and childless and you can be free and happy to have children...or I can be forced into an unhappy child-bearing lifestyle, and you can be forced into an unhappy childless lifestyle (or we both have the children anyway, one happily, one not, and we all end up poor in an overpopulated future).

Long story short: why force me to have your kid?
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Another thought for you: all us gay people not having children is helping to stop or delay our nations eventually having to enact something like China`s restrictive one child per couple policy.

You`re welcome, by the way.
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Male 255
@Kilgore89: If all religious people thought and acted like you, there wouldn`t be a problem, as Musuko said, you`re applying rational thought to your religion. The reason you`re all getting a bad name is that the fundamentalist Christians are gaining more and more power and influence, particularly in the US. Those who take the bible as the literal word of God to argue their prejudices are becoming the legislature and we have to put up with rediculous ideas like homosexuality is a sin, all abortion is wrong, creation should be taught as fact because `the bible says so`
I applaud your open minded approach to religion and may your god go with you.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Are you saying that homosexuals are genetic dead-ends just taking up space and resources on planet earth?"

It`s not about us being a genetic dead end; genes aren`t the be all and end all of humanity; in modern civilisation, knowledge, not genes, is what is valuable to pass on.

By me not having children, I`m letting you have children without guilt of increasing the population. I`m personally doing you a favour; I`m negating the environmental impact of any children you choose to have.

I`m effectively planting a tree so you can cut one down guilt-free.

Do you object to this? And why?
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Male 17,512
Musuko: Your going to take the population control, aka eugenics, angle on homosexuality ?

Are you saying that homosexuals are genetic dead-ends just taking up space and resources on planet earth ?

You do know where that sort of thinking ends up, don`t you ? If not, perhaps you shouldn`t go there.

Even I wouldn`t go there and people have called me an `extremist` here on IAB.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"No eating pork, why ? because eating pork was dangerous back then, you could get sick and die. Today we have refrigeration and raise them cleanly."

So using that same logic:

Homosexuality was outlawed back then because populations were small and vulnerable, and those societies that didn`t increase in number were liable to be destroyed by other societies that did.

Today, we have a population that is large enough to seriously threaten the long-term survival of our species at a comfortable level. The incentive to increase in number is no-longer there.

So why, then, do you personally still fight against homosexuality, given that the requirement for outlawing it is now obsolete?
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Male 2,850
@Kilgore89

"If we think we may have gotten something wrong, we sit down as a community and discuss WHY we think the interpretation is wrong then adjust our interpretation accordingly."

Oddly enough, you`ve just discussed the scientific process. That`s not an insult. It`s fantastic that you`re thinking like that.

You`re taking a source of information (in this case, the Bible) and applying a rational, critical eye to it to evaluate it for its merits, accuracy and relevancy...

...do you utilise other sources of information (such as other religious teachings, philosophy, scientific studies into sociology, psychiatry, etc) in the same way?

If you do, great! If not, I`d recommend you consider doing so.
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Male 17,512
Zira: Also please stop with the `Crakrjaka$$` insult, it doesn`t have the desired effect, to piss me off, and it shows your immaturity.

Keep it civil. Name calling is a public confession of fear and is a intellectually dishonest juvenile playground debate tactic.
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Male 17,512
markust: Black Liberation Theology is an offshoot of South American Liberation theology which is anti-Catholic, pro-marxist, violent and revolutionary.

Thankfully, The openness of the Catholic church and the prevailing of capitalism over the marxist revolutionaries has pretty much ended liberation theology in South and Central America, The lone exception being Hugo Chavez`s government in Venezuela.
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Male 17,512
Zira: Christianity teaches unconditional love for a God whose love for humankind is absolute; it does not teach the repudiation of a God who does not destroy our enemies on the spot.

Cone`s argument is as silly as the "Aryan Christianity" popular in Nazi Germany, which claimed that Jesus was not a Jew at all but an Aryan Galilean, and that the Aryan race was the "chosen people".
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Male 17,512
Zira: Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community - James Cone

Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love. - James Cone
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Male 4,850
"The facts are that black liberation theology is racist. They blame rich white people for all their problems and want to setup a marxist state, for blacks only, in America."

You are a ridiculous parody of ridiculousness.
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Female 2,228
He didn`t hob nob with Imperial royalty or with the oppressive hypocritical religious leaders of his own community. Christianity that doesn`t take into account the central experiences of poor and oppressed peoples ceases to be Christianity at all. That`s liberation theology in a nutshell.
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Female 2,228
Firstly my article quotes a professor, not a preacher.

Secondly, your article makes religious assumptions for a very particular audience of con xians, once again. It is not scholarly nor objective, and it refuses to acknowledge that Black Liberation is a broad school of thought incorporating everyone from MLK to Malcolm X. One Malcolm X like voice in that intellectual milieu does not mean that all Black Liberation theology is made in Malcolm X`s image.

Liberation Theology *is* concerned with the lot of the poor and oppressed, *because the bible speaks so much about the poor and oppressed.* God was not found in pharaoh`s oppression or in Rome`s imperial power, rather God was born a destitute peasant in a cultural backwater in ancient Judea. He hung out w/ Samaritans, Women, tax collectors, prostitutes and lepers. (cont)
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Male 17,512
QueenZira: You link to one preachers view, that`s not fact, it`s opinion. A scholarly opinion is still an opinion. The facts are that black liberation theology is racist. They blame rich white people for all their problems and want to setup a marxist state, for blacks only, in America.

If a white preacher preached the way Rev. Wright does, but for whites, they`d be called the KKK or Nazis. Read This, Has direct quotes from it`s creators.
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Female 2,228
Crakrjaka$$ This is the definition of Black Liberation Theology. It basically uses the gospel narratives to address the social injustices black people have experienced throughout history, from a black perspective. The idea that a religious movement had anything at all to do with a secular movement like Marxism is laughably pathetic.

And use a *real* source Crakrjaka$$, ie. scholarly (like mine) not from an institution that "Integrates judeoxian principles w/ free mkrt principles" like yours.

One last thing- argument fail all around- dems don`t goosestep to pronouncements from the pulpit like reps do, there is no parity between the 2.
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Male 4,850
"I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive them for their ignorance and I hope that they eventually (for lack of a better term) smarten up."

This did not go in one ear and out the other. I thought about this statement quite a bit. Forgiveness would set me free.
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Male 4,850
You made me smile Kilgore89. Thank you for the kind words.
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Male 4,850
Seriously Crakrjak. Just stop. Reverend right was preaching about the injustice the african american community has received at the hands of the government.
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Male 194
*twitch*

*Avoids commenting that although Jesus likely wasn`t black, he sure as shootin` wasn`t white either.*

[/completely off topic]

@Markus

For what it`s worth, I sincerely apologize for the people in your country who vilify you and prop you up as an enemy for political gain. I apologize because I know a good many of these people do this in the name of my religion and I find their actions just as reprehensible as you do. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive them for their ignorance and I hope that they eventually (for lack of a better term) smarten up.

As long as tolerant people keep making their voice heard, and make it louder than the intolerant, we can make some progress. Politics just about everywhere is turning into "us versus them" rhetoric and we should all demand better of our leaders.
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Male 17,512
QueenZira: Two wrongs don`t make a right. Sorry, you can`t justify Rev. Wright`s racism by pointing your finger at others.
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Male 17,512
markust: There is no context in which a preacher saying "God damn America" is acceptable.

Rev. Wright is a straight up racist preaching black liberation theology. Look at what Black Liberation Theology Really Is.

They preach that Jesus was black, That white people are the devil, and that their only chance at `freedom` is to set up a separate marxist state for blacks.

Your attempt to gloss over Rev. Wright`s blatant racism is a total fail.
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Male 4,850
And to the people who get upset by me calling you a racist. Well good. I hope it makes you think. This behavior is disgusting. As a gay man I know what it feels like to be used as an enemy to win an election. I cried the night of the 2004 election. Not because Bush won again but because 11 states passed anti-gay initiatives. I cried because the Republican party specifically used hatred against gay people to get people to the polls. I`m still pissed off thinking about it,
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Male 4,850
Very well played QueenZira. I completely agree with Frank Schaeffer. The attacks against Reverend Wright were both hypocritical and racist. And the people that repeat this garbage, whether they know it or not, are spreading the racism further.
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Female 2,228
5cats I recommend an excellent piece by Frank Schaeffer "When my father said the same thing, he was a Rep. hero." An excerpt:

"When senator Obama`s preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear by association. But when my late father- religious right leader Francis Schaeffer- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan, and Bush Sr."
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Male 4,850
I had my mom listen to the full Reverend Wright sermon (One even longer than the one I posted) and she was very quick to admit she had been lied to by the media. She did say that she didn`t agree with what he was saying but she was strong enough to admit when she had been lied to - that he wasn`t slamming America. This story was sensationalism at its finest. If you can believe a lie as easily disprovable as this imagine the vast amount of lies you believe as truth all because someone has said them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
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Male 4,850
What about Reverend Wright. If you actually listen to the whole sermon he is upset how the government has treated the African American community. He is not saying flat out "God Damn America" like the out of context version you have seen portrays. I was really disappointed that Obama caved in to the media lies on this one. This is a prime example how the media can pound a lie into peoples head so much that it becomes truth.
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Male 40,302
Exactly @Markust! Rev Jeremiah Wright
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Male 17,512
Kilgore: It`s called common sense, mosaic law was handed down to protect the Jews.

No eating pork, why ? because eating pork was dangerous back then, you could get sick and die. Today we have refrigeration and raise them cleanly.

I have no idea why the two fabric rule was handed down but I`m sure it`s not a sin now, after all they only had like two fabrics back then cotton and wool, we have fabrics made from things never dreamed of back then.

A little common sense goes a long way, and it would prevent a lot of those `people of WalMart` photos as well.
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Male 4,850
I don`t understand why anyone would stay with a church that uses fear and personal attacks against other people to rally their followers. Shouldn`t religion be about loving everyone and helping those less fortunate? Not judging and making people feel bad about themselves. And sometimes causing people to kill themselves in the instance of gay suicide when the support group of family and church is ripped from the kids life. If I was religious I would steer clear of any religious organization that preaches hate and intolerance. And I say religious organization not religion because every religion has leaders that teach their followers to be loving and thoughtful to all not just the people like them.
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Male 2,424
who gives a poo. Unemployment, housing, constant apologies a more intrusive government than ever and another war around the corner.

Yay he`s great.
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Male 194
Personally, (and you may disagree, I know many Christians do) I think that the ability of Christians to look back at dogma and interpretation and go "holy crap was that ever wrong" is critical to our faith. If we know something is wrong based on information that we didn`t have 100 years ago, deciding as a group to alter our belief to reflect that doesn`t indicate weakness. In fact recognising and accepting that we have promoted some pretty terrible things throughout history and taking steps to change that makes us stronger.

The trick is to not look at it as "invalidating" or "picking and choosing", but rather "coming to a better understanding". Americans once believed and had laws to the effect that blacks were less than human. Once you realized this was wrong, you (well, some of you) changed your belief system to reflect the new truth. It`s not a compromising of your values, rather, it`s an enhancement.

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Male 554
LOL @ religion !
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Male 194
"So you pick and chose what to believe and what not to believe."

In a way, sort of? I guess what I was getting at with the Herbert quote was sort of answering the question. As children, we are taught the stories of the bible and the basic messages behind them: "God loves everybody", "You`re misbehaving, why can`t you be more like Jesus", "God expects you to be a good person", etc. As we grow up, we, as all people regardless of faith develop value structures based on what we are taught and we come to "know" that something is right or wrong.

We "know" that the Bible containssome basic rules to live by ie. "Don`t kill people", "don`t steal", "don`t wear clothing of mixed fabrics" (trust me, it`s in there). It`s not enough to just know the rules, you have to learn WHY the rules. As our understanding of the world changes, so to does our understanding of WHY the rules exist. It`s
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Male 255
@Kilgore89: `we sit down as a community and discuss WHY we think the interpretation is wrong then adjust our interpretation accordingly` So you pick and chose what to believe and what not to believe. That`s what I suspected all along.
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Male 255
Kilgore89: Personally I prefer this Frank Herbert quote:
Ready comprehension is often a knee-jerk response and the most dangerous form of understanding. It blinks an opaque screen over your ability to learn. The judgmental precedents of law function that way, littering your path with dead ends. Be warned. Understand nothing. All comprehension is temporary.

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Male 255
Kilgore89: I wouldn`t want you to question your fatih, I have no interest in your faith except when it affects the society in which I live and unfortunately, in the US, the fundamentalists in your religion are getting more and more control over legislation and actions that affect all of us.
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Male 194
Also, you`re not going to make me question my faith because I believe this following quote to be true and that faith and religion is more than just having a bunch of rules to follow, it`s about constantly striving to improve yourself and the world.

"Much that was called religion has carried an unconscious attitude of hostility toward life. True religion must teach that life is filled with joys pleasing to the eye of God, that knowledge without action is empty. All men must see that the teaching of religion by rules and rote is largely a hoax. The proper teaching is recognized with ease. You can know it without fail because it awakens within you that sensation which tells you this is something you`ve always known."
-Frank Herbert
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Male 194
marriage, just with a different service than a traditional marriage. (ie. we can`t really say "man and wife" since that just doesn`t make any sense) :-P
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Male 194
@aikiman

We don`t ignore the rule we think are misinterpreted. If we think we may have gotten something wrong, we sit down as a community and discuss WHY we think the interpretation is wrong then adjust our interpretation accordingly. Usually if it`s something big you see denominations split based on what they believe God expects.

Much like real law, there is a hierarchy of laws, so "Love your neighbour as yourself" would take precedence over anything discriminatory much in the same way a constitution overrides any lower laws. So, if I believe that God wants me to treat everybody the same no matter what, I won`t interpret something like "a man shall not lie with another man as with a woman" to mean that homosexuality is a sin since that would violate the spirit of the law. I could interpret it to mean that homosexuality is not wrong, but it is different. The Anglican Church (of Canada) looks at it more like that which is why we perform gay mar
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Male 194
"So they`re bad Christians? Do they in turn call you a bad Christian? Which of you are right?"

I wouldn`t say "bad" so much as "misguided". "Ignorant" doesn`t mean "stupid", just that you lack a full understanding of the knowledge. We have no absolute way of knowing who is "right" so all we can do is decide for ourselves what we feel is right, do the best we can and become better people for it. And yes, they probably would call me a bad Christian, but I feel that in general I`m a good person so I don`t really let it bother me.

"How can you be so sure that the words are from god in the first place when the people who wrote "this is the word of god" are the same people who you say made mistakes in what they were writing?"

Like I said, we don`t have any solid proof. It`s a leap of faith. I choose to live my life by a set of values that encourage me to be tolerant, appreciate lif
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Male 255
@Kilgore89: `People wrote it down and people make mistakes.` But this is the will of an omnipresent omnipotent being, and his one single book of rules is full of mistakes? So you follow the rules you think are right and discount the ones you don`t.
Sounds legit....
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Male 255
@auburnjunky: That what it tries to say but it gets all mixed up when it tries to make an analogy between the advent of the new Christianity with a widow`s second marriage. It`s not sure who it is that corresponds to the wife and who to the husband or even who is supposed to have died, the husband or the wife. Is the church the wife and the husband the Torah?
I`m supposed to live my life by this?
...and what about the other contradictions I mentioned, i can show you more if you want?
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Male 2,850
@Kilgore89

"Not all of us! Just the ignorant ones who don`t know any better!"

So they`re bad Christians? Do they in turn call you a bad Christian? Which of you are right?
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Male 2,850
@Kilgore89

"The fact that we can have multiple translations of the same passage suggests that maybe it`s not God who got things wrong, but rather the people interpreting his word"

How can you be so sure that the words are from god in the first place when the people who wrote "this is the word of god" are the same people who you say made mistakes in what they were writing?
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Male 194
@Musuko
"So why do Christians attempt to use their religion to sway civil law decisions such as whether gay marriage should be legal?"

AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!! SOME! SOME! SOME CHRISTIANS! Not all of us! Just the ignorant ones who don`t know any better!
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Male 194
*when we realize that our beliefs are quite frankly wrong and not in line with being good human beings.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Homosexuality didn`t cease being a sin, neither did prostitution, adultery, or looking at pornography."

Who decided that, and when?

"Jesus himself admonished stoning and separated religion from the administration of law."

So why do Christians attempt to use their religion to sway civil law decisions such as whether gay marriage should be legal?
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Male 194
Oh and the most important points:

4) Not all Christians believe the same thing beyond "There is a God and Jesus is his son and the messiah".

5) "The Messiah" means different things depending on which denomination you`re talking to.

6) Not all Christians are the same.

7) Not all Christians are extremists.

8) Not all Christians are the same.

9) Not all Christians are conservatives.

10) Not all Christians are the same.

11) Not all Christians hate [insert minority group here].

12) Not all Christians are the same.

13) I hate being told by people who are not me what I believe based on experiences they have had in the past with people who I also see as being misguided, ignorant extremists shmucks. I`m a Christian and I don`t hate anybody (except for Justin Bieber, but that`s just personal).
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Male 194
Let`s reiterate some important point here:

1) Different denominations of Christianity use different translations and interpretations of the Bible that are more, or less accepting depending on the ideology of the denomination. (Catholics tend to use more traditional, Protestants tend to use more liberal.)

2) Yes, Christians believe the Bible CONTAINS the word of God, however God did not write it. The stories especially those in the New Testament were written by followers. The New Testament for example often contains stories about Jesus from the perspectives of different people. Moreover, we have valid, academic, independently confirmed evidence showing who wrote the Gospels and other NT books.

3) The fact that we can have multiple translations of the same passage suggests that maybe it`s not God who got things wrong, but rather the people interpreting his word. People wrote it down and people make mistakes. This is why we reinterpret passages when we real
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Male 599
@Scuzoid I wasn`t disagreeing with you. I was using what you said to make more points.
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Male 17,512
AJ: Many parts of the old testament are still valid Christian law, The 10 commandments for example.

Mosaic law, however, is a different covenant. Gentiles are covered under the new covenant.

Sin is still sin, How we get absolved of that sin, through Jesus Christ, is different.

Homosexuality didn`t cease being a sin, neither did prostitution, adultery, or looking at pornography.

Also how we administer justice has changed, Jesus himself admonished stoning and separated religion from the administration of law. The fact that Jesus himself was unjustly convicted by both a religious court and the Roman court, serves to warn us that we should be careful how we take care of justice.
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

"I said it was not the Christian law, which it is not."

So the same question then: why are so many Christians using it as such?
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Male 10,338
I didn`t say it was invalid. I said it was not the Christian law, which it is not.

Why is it wrong to state truth all of a sudden?
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Male 5,811
Only took 5 posts before someone brought up how the old testament is totally invalid now. *facepalm*

At least the inconvenient parts are invalid.
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Male 10,338
Okay akiman:

It is saying that the law of marriage is that a woman is tied to a man in marriage as long as the man lives. If he dies, she is free to marry another. (`til death do us part)

Therefore, since Jesus died, you are no longer bound to the laws of old. When he rose, you became bound to the laws of the new, as if you became re-married.
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Male 255
..And here`s a great one, can anyone please explain what Paul is trying to say in Romans 7:1-6?
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Male 255
So if we assume that the New testament is the new improved word of God, how come it is full of innacuracies and absurd contradictions?
Just for starters, read Luke 24:51 and Acts 1:9-12 and tell me where and when eaxctly did Jesus` ascension take place?
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Female 836
One of the reasons I like Obama. He`s not a foaming at the mouth religious nut like Santorum.
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Male 5,094
BRAVO! BRAA-A-A-A-A-VO! *standing ovation*
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Male 2,850
@mil578

"the Old Testament is basically a history book, while the New Testament is how we should live today."

Why then do so many Christians reference the Old Testament when campaigning against things like gay marriage?
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Male 98
@markust

What does the New Testament teach about homosexuality?
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Male 4,850
"But one of the things that is consistent between the two testaments is the disapproval of homosexuality."

Only if someone wants to use the bible for hate. Then they pick and chose and misinterpret passages while completely ignoring others. Same way they used to pick and chose passages to justify slavery and to stop mixed marriages. There are many many churches that teach tolerance and acceptance for all. How can one church be so loving to everyone and another verbally attack a whole group of people?
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Male 1,268
@Ivran

Not sure why you`d come to the conclusion that because I fealt Bush Sr. didn`t seem much like a christian, that he was a bad president imo.

I know full well Bush Sr. was an exceptionally smart, successful man.

@other half of your post: Which is exactly what I was trying to point out. The church is VERY much needed to become successful. So much so, it should be apparent to 5cats Obama may not in fact be a what he says he is.
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Male 599
Also, to everyone who cares. I finally got my chains that attach to my nipple rings and go down and hook on to my prince albert(wanger piercing). I have to say, they look pretty damn cool. I was walking down the street with no shirt and my pants riding so low that people could see my prince albert, and I got some very approving looks.
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Male 599
@Scuzoid
Bush Sr. was actually a fairly good president. Why do you think his son won his first election so easily?

Also, no politician is what they say they are. That`s what our political system has come to.
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Male 599
@TKD_Master

It is true. You could use your argument for any president being a good president. Obama has been one of the most corrupt presidents we have had as far as campaign donations. He, like George Bush before him, also completely oversteps his bounds as president.
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Male 599
@Yaezakura
Why should an employer HAVE to offer any kind of benefits? The only reason the government should be involved in business and corporations is to protect the liberties and rights of individuals. Benefits aren`t a right. That`s why they`re called `benefits`.
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Male 599
@clockwork208

It got overlooked because IQ tests aren`t relevant anymore.
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Male 4,793
"Obama isn`t a great President."

That is entirely untrue. He looks bad because he`s busy cleaning up the sh*tstorm that was left for him.
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Male 1,268
"Some "Christian" Obama is. He`s gone to chuch, what, 10 times since becomming President?"

Honestly, I wouldn`t be surprised if in 10 years he states he`s been an atheist for decades. Not because I think he`s actually an atheist, but because I think the only way to be the president of the US is to have the backing of the/a church and the vote of the/a church.

Bush Sr. didn`t seem very christian to me either. Anyway, I will continue to believe the US won`t know who their first atheist president is until after he`s left office.
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Male 65
Actually mil578, the Sermon on the Mount is one of Jesus` most well-known teachings. In the New Testament.
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Male 10,338
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
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Male 926
"OK now I am really confused maddux32. Your profile says you are agnostic like myself. Why would you stick up for people that use the old testament in one breath to attack gay people and in the next say that the old testament is no longer valid? It is pure hypocrisy what people are doing."

Christians believe that although the Old Testament is relevant as it pertains to a contextual understanding of the new testament, they believe they are held accountable to what the new testament stands for. There was a lot of weird commands born out of strange logic in the old testament; the new testament seems to correct and even chastise the teachings of the old. But one of the things that is consistent between the two testaments is the disapproval of homosexuality. The Bible really doesn`t pull any punches on the subject. It also unambiguously commands peaceful acceptance and co-existence of those who are not deemed destined to "inherit the kingdom of God." I don`t se
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Male 766
There is no place in a modern society for religion in schools or politics. Religion will be Modern Man`s downfall. Two I can think of at this moment . . .
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Male 926
@Marklust123

Because even though I`m not Christians, I`m not going to knock them for believing in something their text explicitly commands. I know lots of Christians, have had many long conversations regarding homosexuality, and firmly believe that real Christians, although not approving in their own lives of homosexuality, do not actively discriminate against it. It`s one thing to believe that homosexuality does not adhere to their beliefs, it`s another to not be able to co-exist with homosexuals. Too often non-christians like to take extremists Christian views like those proffered by picketing fringe Christians and present that as representative of how normal Christians believe. It`s not a fair accusation or characterization of the millions of non radical Christians.

I am agnostic, and disagree with much of the Christian bible, but I`m not going to knock them for adherence to their beliefs, even if there is some ambiguity as to the translation of certain words.
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Male 26
I like how he only refers to the Old Testament. The people who only refer to the Old Testament are generally atheists who don`t know the bible. If he was a good christian like he says he is, he`d know the Old Testament is basically a history book, while the New Testament is how we should live today. When Jesus died for our sins, he washed it all away and we were no longer bound to the old ways.

This argument is like pulling out a set of laws from 1940 and expecting us to all follow them to the letter. Guess what, they don`t all apply anymore.
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Male 115
We have the love of humanity in our hearts! Only the unloved hate; the unloved and the unnatural. Fight for Love! In the 17th chapter of St. Luke, it`s written that the kingdom of God is within man, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You the people, have the power to create machines, to create happiness! You the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure!

By the Kingdom of God, let us use that power. Let us all unite and fight for a new world, a decent world. Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, away with greed, away with hate and intolerance! In the name of the Kingdom of God, let us all unite!

Let us come into a new world; a kindlier world, where men will rise above their hate, their greed, and brutality. Let us fly into the future! The glorious future, that belongs to you, to me and, to all of us!

Male 18
WHAT? What kind of crap is this? GTFO with this. Obama has turned the US into a Police Nation. First NDAA, now it`s illegal to protest? What kind of bull poo propaganda is this? Seriously wtf.
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Male 4,850
OK now I am really confused maddux32. Your profile says you are agnostic like myself. Why would you stick up for people that use the old testament in one breath to attack gay people and in the next say that the old testament is no longer valid? It is pure hypocrisy what people are doing.
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Male 25,417
Lets hope america gets back on their feet
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Male 4,850
"1 Corinthians 6:9 is new testament, in case you wanted to look it up."

The word Homosexuality was added to the New Testament`s version of this verse. The word or reference was not in the old testament verse. It was "nor abusers of themselves with mankind".

You do realize that you are using bigotry in your defense that Christians are not bigots. The bible is not a weapon to judge other people. It is people like you who are the sinners not gay people.
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Male 926
@markust123

You can argue about the translations and what it actually means, and what is should mean, but don`t call Christians bigots for believing what the Bible explicitly says in every modern translation of the Bible.

1 Corinthians 6:9 is new testament, in case you wanted to look it up.
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Male 926
@markust123

I`m not even Christian, and don`t need to be to know that what you said is beyond stupid.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NASB Version

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men. (NIV Version)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)
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Male 936
he`s the only president right now. Ron Paul would be better though.
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Female 2,228
jtrebowski don`t forget to remind Crakr about all the insane things right wing pastors say, a good example is Falwell`s infamous, "I look at all the abortionists, the feminists, the pagans, the homosexuals and I point my finger in your direction and I say you caused this (9/11) to happen."

I guess when you`re a right wing pastor whatever you say is beyond reproach though.
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Male 4,850
If the old testament is no longer relevant as a bunch of people are claiming here than every single religious passage against homosexual is no longer relevant. You can`t have it both ways bigots.
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Male 835
Well...

LOW IQ AND CONSERVATIVE BELIEFS

This was brought up a while ago, but largely ignored. I couldn`t tell if it was because it was taken pretty much for granted, or because nobody felt comfortable talking about it. Either way.
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Male 3,369
@Crakrjak: Sigh. And you woder why er think conservatives are uneducated. Doing research might help, especially if you listen to what he said in context
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Female 385
[quote]I also don`t think Religion has any business in state affairs, and I think the state has no business mandating the actions of religious groups (forcing contraception on them, specifically).[/quote]
Forcing religious EMPLOYERS to cover contraception in their insurance policies--the same thing every other employer also has to do--is not the same as forcing religious PEOPLE to use those contraceptives.
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Male 3,631
The only thing Obama about that was the word "Folks."
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Male 10,338
LOL Nope. Just defending the rest of us.
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Male 835
Well, SOMEbody felt directly addressed.
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Male 10,338
"We get it, guys. You really, really, really don`t like Democrats. Or atheists. Or black people."

Firstly, drat you, you over-generalizing drat-face.

Secondly, I love democrats. I don`t like their ways with all the division and fear mongering.

I love all atheists. Love your neighbor as yourself, after all.

About the black people comment? I hope you die in a fire, but I love you, even if you are a drating moron.
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Male 10,338
"Did `he` just change his mind? One day stoning people to death was all fun and games, but the next day he realised he should probably tell people to stop?

Just wondering what a Christians viewpoint on this is?"

Okay. Jesus asked us to discard the law of the old covenant, but to continue to read the stories therein for the lessons they hold.

I am a Christian that supports the gay rights movement, and supports the rights of women to have abortions.

I also don`t think Religion has any business in state affairs, and I think the state has no business mandating the actions of religious groups (forcing contraception on them, specifically).
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Male 835
We get it, guys. You really, really, really don`t like Democrats. Or atheists. Or black people.
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Male 1,196
I also agree that Christians are not one big group. There are thousands of them and they all believe something different.
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Male 550
Are you f/ucking kidding me! He passed a bill that literally DESTROYS our 6th Amendment right!! NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act). Look it up you Obama supporting ignorant a/ssholes! I don`t give a poo what he did in the past! He can rot in hell!
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Male 52
What a douche bag. I would vote for 12 year autistic kid before I let this tool back in the oval office
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Male 15,183
Yeah, certainly a better sound byte than the wisdom you`d get from GW (derp) Bush.
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Male 17,512
Coming from a guy that regularly attended, Rev. Wright`s `God Damn America` black liberation church, this falls on deaf ears.
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Male 194
Lol at people who don`t understand that Obama is pointing out that Christians are not one united group.

I.E.
"Why is it that whenever I use a Roman Catholic interpretation of scripture to challenge Christian belief that all the Anglicans tell me that the interpretation I`m citing is invalid? I don`t understand what a denomination is because I am incapable of thinking in anything other than binary oppositions! I also choose to disregard a history of liberalisation of Christianity resulting in a large amount of opposing interpretations; As such, I will never be capable of viewing Christianity as anything other than Crusader era Roman Catholics or Puritans. Christians are stupid!"

Also, lol at how many people think it`s ridiculous that Christians put way too much though into "a fictional book" but themselves are putting more effort into talking about religion and the bible than most Christians.

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Female 4,086
religion and politics should never be paired, under any circumstances.
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Male 468
@PsychGeek Actually, I think you`ll find that most people who say the Old Testament is outdated and the ones who say it`s all literal are two different people. Too many people who rail against us never take the time to realize this. They all think we are all the same group. As if soccer teams all shoot for the same goal.
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Male 468
@PsychGeek Actually, I think you`ll find that most people who say the Old Testament is outdated and the ones who say it`s all literal are two different people. Too many people who rail against us never take the time to realize this. They all think we are all the same group. As if soccer teams all shoot for the same goal.
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Male 151
it sucks how "literal" people take a fictional book.
you guys are drating morons.
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Male 127
Stephen Fry summed it up nicely for me "religion? Sh*t it!".
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Male 40,302
Oh, when OBAMA talks about religion it`s OK, but if BUSH were to do so... impeacment!

Furthermore: Obama spent 20 years going to a church whose pastor is a blatent racist. Some "Christian" Obama is. He`s gone to chuch, what, 10 times since becomming President? But golfing... woo hoo!
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Female 1,798
@ Christians who say "Oh, the Old Testament is out-dated, it doesn`t apply anymore":

That sure as hell isn`t what you say when you want to hate homosexuals, is it? Stop using the bible to enable your homophobia. If you`re going to say the Old Testament is out-dated and shouldn`t be used, don`t quote it and use it as an excuse to hate. Thanks.
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Male 835
Hard to read something you are busy thumping.
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Male 240
AtheistAlien, I think he means that a lot of people selectively cut out the insane/incoherent/ridiculous/poor writing parts of the bible, and that there`s so much room for (mis)interpretation; or that most people simply don`t read the bible and what it says exactly, whilst still preaching it and advocate living by it.
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Male 468
@Bataleon The reason you get two different responses about the validity of the old testament is because you are talking to two different people with opposing viewpoints themselves about it.

In a sense, you listen to the extremists making no sense then get confused when someone who is more moderate states their case. You mix the two sides assuming they are really on the same side.


Great Insight! What needs to be kept in mind is that if it wasn`t for these "radical changes" in religion, we would all be suffering.

If the jews didn`t comes around, people would be still sacrificing people.

If Christ didn;t come around, the idea of forgivness and Mercy would be void as things got very lawyer-istic.

and...(yes I`m gonna say it) I buy the idea that the Book of Mormon brings about the idea of freedom. I know I know. Prop 8. But look at our "article of faith #11" and take a breath of fresh air of what is supposed to be the m
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Male 15,832
[quote]religion has no place in government[/quote]
...and government has no place in education. (Really. Read the Constitution. It isn`t in there.)
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Male 1,949
You put your hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. NOT the other way around.
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Male 809
Read my bible? Screw you. I have better things to do than read a fairy tale.
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Male 5,314
religion has no place in government
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Male 599
Being able to give inspiring quotes doesn`t make a good president. Most Americans don`t even seem to know what the president`s job is. (I`m not saying Obama`s main opposition is a better choice, for the record)
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Male 148
What`s religion doing influencing public policy? Or being taught in schools? Sure people can believe what they want, but no one belief should be represented in law, or taught in mainstream, non-optional education.
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Male 3,445
thatjimguy: He`s not speaking directly about homosexuality. I`m just citing that as an example of the different interpretations people have of the Bible.

Full disclosure: I don`t belong to any faith.
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Female 2,674
"ENOUGH WITH THE INFIGHTING AND DIVISION! Alas, that is the liberal way, so I won`t get my hopes up."

I lol`d.
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Male 198
@thatjimguy:

The thing is, people use the Old Testament all the time to promote/prove their rules. Fanatics/extremists always take what they want, and ignore the rest. What government - and the country as a whole - needs is religious indifference, not just tolerance. With tolerance, you put up with it. You might not like it, but you tolerate it. With indifference, you don`t care.

@PsychGeek: While church and state are supposed to be separate, modern politicians realize that there`s a lot of Christians out there. They promise (or pretend topromise) congregations things in exchange for votes.
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Male 1,793
screw off... Obama 2012!!!!
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Male 1,178
Christians of I-A-B - please can you clear one thing up for me? Whenever someone talks about how ridiculous the old testament is, the retaliation from Christians is that times have changed and it is no longer valid (as demonstrated by thatjimguy`s post).

Now, I`ve always assumed that Christians believed that the bible represents the word of God. However, in saying that the old testament is no longer relevant, you are suggesting that the word of God was at some point wrong. Given that God is supposed to be an almighty power, how can this be?

Did `he` just change his mind? One day stoning people to death was all fun and games, but the next day he realised he should probably tell people to stop?

Just wondering what a Christians viewpoint on this is?

Personally, it just seems to back up my own view that the bible is just a collection of stories and viewpoints created by humans in order to control and enforce behaviours in other humans.
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Male 468
@Psygeek, Havent seen it yet. Want to.

Also, Christians don;t hate, just the one you keep paying attention to on TV that say the stupid stuff. It`s pretty much like blaming all black people for the ones who run in gangs.

@foolsprussia Well, by the quote given alone it doesn`t talk about homosexuality so I did not assume that was what it was about.

I would also say this about homosexuality; "Lord, please bless those who sin differently than I do."

I wish more Christians would adapt this thought before opening their mouths.
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Male 17
Umm it`s not the schools responsibility to teach the bible, that`s what Sunday school is for...but taking GOD out of school completely is not what the founding fathers had in mind. It`s ok for students to pray in school, it`s fine for a teacher to have a Bible on their desk. It`s fine if you`re religion is to not repeat the pledge of allegiance. Why do people have to make a big deal if someone doesn`t believe what you believe?? STOP making it a big deal!!
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Male 439
Only a fool judges a politician by his speeches. You do realize he doesn`t even write them, right?
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Male 3,445
thatjimguy: Again, that`s essentially the point being made in the quote. Jesus really didn`t have anything to say about sexuality, but there are an awful lot of Christians who cite the Old Testament in regards to that subject.
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Male 2,700
Ive said it before and Ive said it again, Christians dont even know what to believe. The read what they want, skip over what they dont like, and forget what their faith is truly about.....

...the worship of a vengeful, evil, vile deity
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Female 1,798
@ auburnjunky:

actually, m`dear, in my experience it`s been the CONSERVATIVES who infight and use religion as an excuse to hate other people---please stop bashing the liberals. thanks!
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Female 1,798
@ thatjimguy: ever see "The Book of Mormon" on Broadway? you`d love it :-D
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Female 1,798
...why do we even have to read the Bible? how about we just move away from religion and govern this country without its presence---we`d be a hell of a lot better off, and we wouldn`t be arguing about gay marriage or abortion so much. Christians love to hate.
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Male 468
Bad thing is, it shows how much HE doesn`t know.

Leviticus & Deuteronomy are both Old Testament. Which simply mean they were the laws of old times the way man understood them.

We now understand slavery is wrong, and eating shellfish is no big deal. We keep those texts because they are part of our history.

Ok I-A-B , bring it on. I know it`s coming... and I`m Mormon so have at it.
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Male 493
@auburnjunky: "WHY IS HE CITING LEVITICUS AND DEUTERONOMY?!"

Because all the super extremist Christians, the ones who really want to put God into our government (e.g. Santorum), use Leviticus to back up their homophobia.
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Male 3,445
AJ pretty much reinforced the what was being said in the quote...
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Male 1,440
Ron Paul 2012


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Male 1,678
The contents of his rant prove his last sentence correct.
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Male 462
That`s nice Obama, still got nothin on Ron Paul though.
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Male 6,737
I wondered how the resident IAB right wing hicks would come at this, AJ. Well done for denouncing the Old Testament as not being a Christian text.

I`ll be over here chuckling to myself.
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Male 13
Not the best...just the only one. Anyone But Obama 2012..well Anyone but Obama or Paul 2012!
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Male 10,338
How about we follow THE NEW TESTAMENT and LOVE ONE ANOTHER!

ENOUGH WITH THE INFIGHTING AND DIVISION! Alas, that is the liberal way, so I won`t get my hopes up.
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Male 1,625
so, he criticizes a lot of books of the bible, but says we should read it anyways...
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Male 10,338
Are you drating serious?

The OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE! WHY IS HE CITING LEVITICUS AND DEUTERONOMY?!
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Male 663
Geeze I hope he`s reelected over romney, santorum, or gingrich.
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Male 49
um...Ron Paul. That is all.
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Male 174
Very well said.
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Male 1,293
He`s only the best because he is the only one. People are hoping desperately he will be as good as Jimmie Carter, for Chrisake. Best case scenario that he is only as bad as the worst US President any non-American can name?
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Male 6,737
Link: Barack Obama On Faith In The US [pic] [Rate Link] - I`ve said it once, Obama isn`t a great President. But he`s the best out there right now.
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