4 Shot Dead At A Jewish School In France

Submitted by: McGovern1981 4 years ago

Good to see that gun controls working great!
There are 89 comments:
Male 182
how many people run around with guns here and how many in the states?
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Male 621
@McGovern1981: Yes, yes history does speak for itself.

Sadly, you aren`t listening to what history really says.
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Male 14,330
@piperfawn

History speaks for itself.
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Male 5,016
CrakrJak so are you suggesting me that your politicians don`t establish a tyranny just cause they fear civils weapons?
What a sad way of thinking about world and humanity.
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Male 37,897

[quote]Our drug laws suck, but a 50 point difference in homicides does not come from crappy drug laws. [/quote]
And what are all the gangs fighting over? Turf, which is cntrol of drug trade in their area. Why do people know over 7-11s? Cash for drugs made expensive by prohibition laws. etc etc etc
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Male 4,793
No it definitely wasn`t a gun. You see, they control their guns there, so nobody has them. Thus, it is impossible that a bad person that does not care about laws whatsoever went ahead and broke the law to acquire a gun and use it to kill people. That is absolutely impossible.
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Male 17,512
Piper: [quote]If you have a gun control you have less weapons around...[/quote]

Which in turn allows government tyranny to go unabated. Every dictator in the last 80 years has instituted gun control, not for public safety, but to suppress the populace.

Gun control has nothing to do with controlling crime, it`s about power and who has it, the government or it`s people. CCW laws have lowered crime statistics in every state, except Illinois because they`ve yet to abide by the Supreme Court`s ruling and allow concealed carry.
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Male 5,811
[quote]The problem is that criminals still get guns no matter how many anti-gun laws there are[/quote]
Not necessarily, in my city, there are virtually no gun deaths ever. The majority of murders here are stabbings, and if a gun IS involved it`s usually some rifle a kid got from his parent`s farm or something.
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Male 6,737
"The problem is that criminals still get guns no matter how many anti-gun laws there are."

Not wholly true, that fact, is it? :P
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Male 5,016
CrakrJak "The problem is that criminals still get guns no matter how many anti-gun laws there are."
Well so let the guns invades your country so for criminals will be a lot easier to find one.
If you have a gun control you have less weapons around = less probability for criminals to obtain one.
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Male 17,512
Extra: It`s not a `causal link`, it`s backed up by fact. Link

Be sure to look at the tables provided, It`s were I got my stats.
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Male 453
Only the NRA and their adherents have successfully established an exclusive causal link between concealed carry and reduced crime rates.

Why don`t you give us the details of your statistical analysis?
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Male 17,512
Only one state, Illinois, does not have a concealed carry law and our crime rate here is much higher than neighboring states. Those states that have adopted concealed carry laws have seen their crime rates drop up to 50% or more after they were enacted.
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Male 17,512
Baal: The problem is that criminals still get guns no matter how many anti-gun laws there are.

All gun laws do is take guns away from lawful citizens and make them defenseless to burglars, rapists, thieves, kidnappers and terrorists.

Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker(s).

Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year. Only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The `error rate` for the police, however, is 11 percent.
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Male 621
@5Cats: Wow. You`re still blaming the French for what happened while they were under Nazi rule around 70 years ago?!? And acting like it`s still true today!?!?!? By that absurd logic, then I suppose you believe Americans are OK with Japanese internment camps?

Seriously, pull your head out of your butt. Almost all of the people to blame for that are dead today.

France is nothing like that now.

What you`re spouting about the French being OK with Jew and child murder today isn`t "the truth", it`s bigotry. Blaming existing people for the sins of their ancestors is nonsense of the highest degree.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Male 14,775
Not a big deal compared to the dying going on in Africa, but white jewish kids are worth 100,000 Africans in media gold.

Still sad though.
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Male 4,547
US gun homicide rate: 4.1
US gun suicide rate: 5.71
US gun accident rate: 0.23

France gun homicide: 0.44
France gun suicide: 5.14
France gun accident: 0.11

So... less of all 3.

Overall murder rate: US 5.0, France 1.1.

However, if you`re swayed by anecdotes instead of stats:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#United_States">List of US shootings.

then lets look at the weapon and how they were stopped:
1: Legal gun. Police Shot.
2: Legal gun. Police caught.
3/4: No info.
5: Legal gun. Police caught.
6: Legal gun. Police caught.
7: Legal gun. Unarmed Teachers caught.
8: N/A. Suicide.
Etc.

Your ideas don`t seem to be working very well.
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Female 2,674
DS, no. Strict gun control laws may still allow really badass criminals to get guns, sure. In places with tons of crime (like Mexico due to anti-drug laws) this is going to be a huge problem. But in the USA, we have random kids who have super easy access to guns because of their parents and steal them to shoot up their schools (when otherwise they probably wouldn`t have the means to get their hands on a gun). We have convicted criminals who are easily able to obtain guns. Pretty much anyone who wants a gun can get ahold of one without problem, and that does not make us safer. You might want to check out the stats some people have already posted.
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Female 2,674
aj, if there is even a single French person on this site, then I think my argument`s valid. And I wouldn`t be surprised if that`s the case. But you still have to see the hypocrisy of whining over name calling when you go and do it yourself, even if it`s to people who aren`t here right now.
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Male 1,595
Well, I guess this is a lesson to anti-NRA people.
Strict Gun-control Policies do not keep bad people from getting guns.
They keep Good people from getting them to defend themselves and others from the bad people who have the guns illegally.
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Male 10,339
Damnit Lillian!

Calling one person a name is PERSONAL!

Calling a whole country of people is NOT PERSONAL!

If the ENTIRE POPULATION OF FRANCE WAS ON IAB, then your point would have merit, but THEY AREN`T so IT DOESN`T!

Geez! lol
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Female 2,674
aj, I don`t think it`s nit picking when you had JUST said that, and contradicted yourself only a few minutes later.
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Male 10,339
LillianDulci: I guess if there is a nit to pick, you`ll be the one to pick it.
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Male 36,536
@HiEv Well the truth hurts don`t it?
Franc AND Vichy eagerly shipped their Jews to the death camps, didn`t they?
To be fair, even the British did in the occupied Channel Islands.
In fact I think the ONLY country that didn`t was Denmark...
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Male 621
@5Cats: "The shooter is in real trouble! Oh not for killing Jewish children, that`s OK in France! For having an unregistered firearm!!!"

Wow. You`re really a horrible person.

No, killing Jews and/or children is not OK in France.

@McGovern1981: The facts prove you wrong, since France`s gun control laws have demonstrate a clear improvement over the US` gun laws by their far lower per capita rate of gun violence.

Furthermore, this post demonstrates your ignorance of the worthlessness of anecdotal evidence in proving such a claim.

If you want to prove such a claim you need to use scientific evidence, not cherry-picked examples that aren`t representative of the overall case.

You can`t do this here though, since the facts are against you.
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Male 2,220
Yeah right 5 cats thats why your gun related deaths are ten times ours (per capita).

So.. is that free access to guns, or inate stupidity?

or both?
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Female 2,674
auburnjunky, calling all French people "cheese eating surrender monkeys" is name calling, sorry.
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Male 36,536
@madduck: The left LOVES to make "rules" but only if they get to pick who follows them. Laws are for little people, not `the elite`.
Also: anti-gun laws cause a rise in black-market guns. Criminals who didn`t bother with them before start selling them. Criminals + drugs + guns = bad idea! Ask England, where gun-crime has gone UP since they severely restricted all sorts of firearms.
Ask Switzerland where guns are EVERYWHERE but gun crime is rare...
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Male 10,339
"All these so-called "Christians" advocating violence as a way of responding to violence...doesn`t sound very Christ-like to me."

And here comes Religion into the debate!
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Male 10,339
Lillian: I did not call him a name. An attack on a whole country, is not personal.
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Male 662
@McGovern1981 The difference between guns and drugs is drug you use on yourself...guns you use on others. If I smoke some weed it cool, it me. If I shot a gun I am using it to kill something.
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Female 2,674
"Stop name calling. It lowers the effect of your words to nil."

"I could give a drat what happens in France. Buncha cheese eating surrender monkeys. "

Um...
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Male 3,445
All these so-called "Christians" advocating violence as a way of responding to violence...doesn`t sound very Christ-like to me.
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Male 6,737
@McGovern1981. "Ummmm that whole riot thing usually kills people. "

As I said. I walk in to that shop (the one you linked to earlier) during a riot with a plan of smashing the glass and taking some goods and going off home. Do I deserve to die for that?

NB: I do wholeheartedly disagree with looting in the modern day western world, but they don`t deserve to die for it.
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Female 7,838
well, look at the stats- and use your brain. Drug laws cause more deaths than they prevent, gun laws prevent death. Why the hell would anyone think the general populace owning guns was a good idea unless they already had the things?
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Male 14,330
[quote]wow- thank God some of you are trolls- if not humanity would be really drated up... fine, you have guns in the states- that means you cannot just ban them because the bad guys would keep them. However- to suggest that countries who have tight controls should relax those controls is just lunacy...[/quote]

Some people say the same about drug laws that bans been working well too huh?
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Male 14,330
[quote]How could you justify shooting someone that attempted to loot a SHOP though? Seriously? That is one drated up country if you`re allowed to shoot someone that is NOT endangering anyones life.[/quote]

Ummmm that whole riot thing usually kills people.
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Female 7,838
5cats- stop being an arse, you are certainly talking out of yours..... get a little understanding too. I seem to remember that the left gets accused of interfering too much and making to many laws.
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Male 36,536
[quote]Also "law, ethics, morality and collective identity" are contrary to the liberal agenda.[/quote]
You got THAT right @aj! Guidelines, do-what-you-like and `it`s all good` are what liberals & lefties try to push on us.
(ps: they like "guidelines" so there`s one rule for you, and another for them, eh?)
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Female 7,838
wow- thank God some of you are trolls- if not humanity would be really drated up... fine, you have guns in the states- that means you cannot just ban them because the bad guys would keep them. However- to suggest that countries who have tight controls should relax those controls is just lunacy...
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Male 6,737
@McGovern1981. Of course. Nobody would loot their shop. Good on them for pulling together etc.

How could you justify shooting someone that attempted to loot a SHOP though? Seriously? That is one drated up country if you`re allowed to shoot someone that is NOT endangering anyones life.
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Male 14,330
@Buiadh

and the small platoon of Koreans on the rooftop there all loaded up those did nothing you suppose??
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Male 10,339
Yeah. Collective identity is. MOTHERLAND!
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Male 10,339
The LA riots happened, because people wanted an excuse to be idiots.

Those cops did nothing wrong, but just because it was a black man, and they got off (justifiably), they went nuts.

If Rodney King were white, and the cops were black, and the same thing happened, a Riot would not have,
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Male 6,737
@AJ. Rioters do not deserve to die. Rioting is a practice of freedom. Muricans are all for freedom, right?

If, during the riot, they break the law then they deserve to be arrested. Not shot. If I walked in to a shop tomorrow and picked up a TV and walked out, I`d be arrested, right? What difference is there if I walked into a shop during a riot and did the same? Do I deserve to die because of it?

"Also "law, ethics, morality and collective identity" are contrary to the liberal agenda."

LOL. Firstly collective identity is VERY left. Secondly, as to the former three, just LOL.
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Male 3,445
"`m sorry, but if a violent, unlawful riot was occurring, a wall of gunfire would quickly end it."

Just think for a second about what caused the LA Riots and then consider if you think putting a stop to them in such a fashion would be a good way to defuse tensions.
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Male 3,445
50 point difference in gun-related homicides, I should clarify.
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Male 3,445
Our drug laws suck, but a 50 point difference in homicides does not come from crappy drug laws. That is a factor, but this isn`t Mexico.
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Male 10,339
Also "law, ethics, morality and collective identity" are contrary to the liberal agenda.
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Male 10,339
"Guns do not stop riots. Social order, established through law, ethics, morality and collective identity, does."

I`m sorry, but if a violent, unlawful riot was occurring, a wall of gunfire would quickly end it.
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Male 6,737
@McGovern1981. I`ll just grab a snippet from that article and leave it here.

"Guns do not stop riots. Social order, established through law, ethics, morality and collective identity, does."
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Male 37,897

@ Buiadh, our higher homocide stats are due to rediculously stupid drug laws, not gun control.
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Male 10,339
@Mcgovern: HURRY UP AND BUY!
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Male 10,339
I mean poo Buidah. I could give a drat what happens in France. Buncha cheese eating surrender monkeys.

I`m just trying to get a rise out of the anti-freedom, I mean anti-gun crowd.
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Male 14,330
That in reference to the LA riots BTW.
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Male 14,330
@Buiadh

We`ve had plenty of riots here ya know what few stores weren`t looted???? Ask a Korean!!!
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Male 10,339
....and you are very, very gullible.

Stop name calling. It lowers the effect of your words to nil.
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Male 6,737
You see, AJ. This is why nobody listens to you or cares about your opinion. You`re an ill-educated hick.
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Male 10,339
The riots would be over quicker with guns. They would weed themselves out without government intervention.
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Male 3,445
Zombunny: There`s an awful lot of racial and socio-economic tension in France. They seem to riot weekly, as Buidah pointed out.
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Male 3,445
You`re right, it`s too bad none of the kids or rabbis were packing heat so they could have defended themselves.
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Male 1,678
I agree with McGovern.

We can`t stop gun crime completely so we shouldn`t bother even trying. Crime rates in Mexico somehow prove this.
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Male 10,339
That`s exactly what I was trying to say Zombunny.

Buiadh: Do I need to call the Whaaaaambulance?
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Male 6,737
@Zombunny. Considering this is a favorite French pasttime over recent years, I`d say that it`s little to do with culture.





I think if they could get a hold of guns readily, they would.
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Male 14,330
I bet it vas zee Germans!!!!
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Female 2,525
The differences between American and French crime rates have nothing to do with gun laws and everything to do with culture.
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Male 3,445
The caption is like saying, "Good to see that health care reform is working great!" when your grandma dies at 100.
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Male 14,330
@spanerbulb

Yes it sure helped stop this now didn`t it?? That whole murder being illegal wasn`t enough!

@Buiadh

Mexicos gun control is very strict Mexican gun laws. They also have an extremly high murder rate with guns because the Mexican Mafia dosen`t care about laws. It`s gotten so bad citizens are taking up illegal arms too because they want to defend themselves because the government can`t and won`t because it`s pretty much owned by the mafia.
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Male 187
Gun control? Old news. What about SCOOTER CONTROL?
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Male 1,243
Failure of gun control? What the f*ck are you talking about? Are you some kind of feeble minded simpleton? Gun controls doesn`t make gun crime suddenly vanish. They do however make such occurrences rare rather than a daily occurrence which is the case in some countries I could mention. Think before you make sweeping generalising comments McGovern.
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Male 5,016
Gerry1of1...Aaaand how many crimes with guns have been committed only today in your country?
I bet they are more than all the gun crimes committed in a year in a state with gun control.
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Male 6,737
@McGovern1981

I`m not familiar enough wtih either country to know their gun laws. I think Mexico has quite loose laws don`t they? I guess that`s why their firearms related homicides are high? As for Sweden... I`m not sure what their laws are. But it seems the firearm rates are low.
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Male 5,016
"An american ranting about France"
Good to see is just McGovernor1981( nothing more can be expected).
This had to be the correct title.
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Male 14,330
@Buiadh

Sweden seem to contradict your viewpoint along with Mexicos gun control stats.
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Male 6,737
@AJ What a ridicuous, insensitive thing to say, especially after this news. Go boil your head you idiot.
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Male 6,737
2007 French homicide stats (no more recent data according to UNODC):

Percentage of homicides with a firearm: 9.6
Number of homicides with a firearm: 35
Homicide by firearm per 100,000 of population: 0.1

US stats for the same year:

Percentage of homicides with a firearm: 59.8
Number of homicides with a firearm: 10129
Homicide by firearm per 100,000 of population: 3.4



Seems gun control does work to me.
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Male 10,339
"Nietzscheese"

No. It`s just that the French are so demoralized from the nanny state that they couldn`t be bothered to commit crime lol.
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Male 5,314
oh yeah, because criminals would gladly obey the law and not have a gun. right?
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Male 37,897

Not to be insensitive, but it seems gun control does not actually control gun-violence.

Go figure.....
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Male 14,330
@Nietzscheese

So take a look at Mexicos stats hows that working out for them?
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Male 25,416
Wow.... thats really bad.
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Male 17
@original post
France`s murder rate: 1.09 per 100,000 people
USA`s murder rate: 5.0 per 100,000 people

I appreciate that there are a lot more differences between France and USA that help account for this, but my point is that you can`t point to France as a country where gun control utterly failed.

Murder will always be with us no matter what laws are adopted, but there is value in reducing the number of murders.
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Male 1,810
Ban scooters. Problem solved....
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Male 36,536
The shooter is in real trouble! Oh not for killing Jewish children, that`s OK in France! For having an unregistered firearm!!!
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Male 415
Not the first attack from a scooter, although recent attacks were on military or cops I believe.
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Male 106
"Reports say attacker was on a scooter". lol.
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Male 712
Seconds counted...just too bad the police were minutes away.
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Male 6,737
I knew this was a McGovern1981 link as soon as I read the caption.
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Male 14,330
Link: 4 Shot Dead At A Jewish School In France [Rate Link] - Good to see that gun controls working great!
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