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Category: Misc
Date: 02/10/12 02:59 PM

143 Responses to Kidnapped For Christ – Documentary Trailer

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 2:12 pm
    Link: Kidnapped For Christ - Documentary Trailer - American teenagers sent by force to Escuela Caribe, an American-run Evangelical Christian reform school in The DO.
  2. Profile photo of 3002-3038
    3002-3038 Female 18-29
    633 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    thus why i hate religion. not the idea of worshiping god, just religion
  3. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:20 pm
    The OP was missing something in the original formulation, "To Crakrjak with love." :-P
  4. Profile photo of Buzzard250
    Buzzard250 Male 18-29
    342 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:23 pm
    Wow. I bet they wouldnt like the same thing to be done to them. and this is also the reason we have no freakin tolerance in this country.
  5. Profile photo of Stormwolf
    Stormwolf Female 40-49
    74 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:30 pm
    This is sick. This is not Biblical. This is NOT Christianity. Faith is a choice, and even Jesus and his Apostles taught this choice in the New Testament. ANY person who calls themselves a "Christian", and thinks that this sort of thing is right or okay is NOT a follower of Christ.
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36212 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    If the parents did some Snow-Running sooner, they wouldn`t need that school.


  7. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    357 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm
    Exactly the reason why `people of faith` should never be allowed to have -any- power...
  8. Profile photo of techgeek07
    techgeek07 Male 30-39
    2594 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm
    I can`t believe parents would do this to their kids
  9. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 3:48 pm
    If kids were being kidnapped by their parents and sent to Allah camp you can bet Sharia Santorum and the rest of the right-wingers would be absolutely screaming about it. But hey, Jesus you know?
  10. Profile photo of robosnitz
    robosnitz Male 40-49
    2737 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:01 pm
    lol,......gays!
  11. Profile photo of Stand4Christ
    Stand4Christ Male 18-29
    35 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm
    This is completely wrong. No matter what my child did or said I would never do anything close to that to them. If they tell me they`re gay, I may question it, but I am not going to shove Christ down their throats to make them see it my way. Following Christ is a choice. I can talk to them about it all date long, I can send them to a private school, and I can try to make them go to church, but even making them go to church can be going too far, let alone this monstrosity. If my child says he does not want to go any more simply because he doesn`t like it, I might try suggesting another church, but I would never force Christianity on them. This kidnapping place is just scary, and while I can understand the parents would be upset, they went way way too far with this mess.
  12. Profile photo of TheShgn2
    TheShgn2 Male 13-17
    626 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:22 pm
    This is an outrage! Sending children against their will to religious extremist camps where they have access to weapons and will be trained in the ways of Allah .. of wait, it`s for Jesus? Well, ok then.

    Why does no one notice the horrible things Christians can do (or pretend that Rick Santorum isn`t trying to turn America into a fascist theocracy) but when a Muslim does something wrong or a country is a Islamic theocracy it`s a BFD?
  13. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:29 pm
    xiquiripat: I guess you`ve never heard of a madrassa, now have you ?

    Also, it`s not possible for parents to kidnap their own kids, excluding cases where divorce is involved.
  14. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:32 pm
    QueenZira: The OP was missing something in the original formulation, "To Crakrjak with love."

    Just what the f*ck is that supposed to mean ?
  15. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:41 pm
    Sad. And unfortunate, because religious camps/schools can be such a enlightening and growing experience for teens... why just yesterday I worked with a group of Quaker boarding schoolers... Wonderful, kind group of kids. But- all of them there by choice. I think this just breeds violence, hate and negativity.
  16. Profile photo of lonewill
    lonewill Male 30-39
    26 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    The gay kids face when he turned 18 and they had no choice but let him go free:

  17. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 5:12 pm
    Also, it`s not possible for parents to kidnap their own kids, excluding cases where divorce is involved.

    This is bad parenting nonetheless. I dare say abuse.
  18. Profile photo of simbha
    simbha Male 30-39
    412 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 5:13 pm
    @CrakrJak: According to the synopsis of the film, the story of David - shown in the film - is that of a person over the age of 18 who was held against his will and ultimately released through the intervention of his community.
  19. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3775 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    truly horrifying that parents would actually do that to their own kids. a most vile form of abuse.
  20. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36212 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Looks like aboarding school to me.
    Yes, I hate their message, but don`t parents have the right to choose the boarding school of their choice? Is military school differant? They use the same culture-shock techniques.
  21. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 6:53 pm
    This poor kid is going to traumatized for life. Thanks Jesus.
  22. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 7:27 pm
    wow... and people wonder why i`m an atheist
  23. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    Also watch Jesus Camp. Scary stuff.
  24. Profile photo of emmettyville
    emmettyville Female 40-49
    4345 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 9:01 pm
    cant see any of those kids ever talking to their parents again, let alone jesus. F ucking crazy godsquad.
  25. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 10:27 pm
    @Crackr: In point of fact, I HAVE heard of a Madrasah and unlike you I actually know what it is.
  26. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 10:33 pm
    @Gerry,

    These kids were dragged out forcibly, because they`re gay, to the Dominican Republic. They were also forced to feel something is wrong with them when they`re perfectly fine and have their entire lives ripped out from underneath them. Your comparison isn`t even close.
  27. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 10:51 pm
    Jesus Camp 2: The Revenge
  28. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36212 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    @ swoop408 - I said I hated the message. I`m a big old `Mo so of course I`m pro-gay. But the video obviously had it`s own agenda. How many kids were there because of drugs? How many kids straighened up out of drugs because they were there? I want REAL FACTS not stilted drama.

    And of cours, the anti gay thing is stupid, but what do you expect of religious people?
  29. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 10, 2012 at 11:47 pm
    xiquiripat: It sounds doubtful that you know what a madrasah is. It`s not a regular school, it`s not just a parochial school either, they exclusively teach the koran and discipline. A madrasah doesn`t teach any science, math, world history, geography, social studies, or anything else. They only teach boys and they make them memorize every verse, using corporal punishment if they make even a little mistake.

    The 18 year old has adult rights, of course. I have feeling though he was given an ultimatum by his parents, either go to the camp or leave their home. Of course he can claim `kidnapping` after the fact, but I`m more apt to believe he went willing, until he found that it involved hard work.
  30. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 12:21 am
    I`d bide my time and run amok with a steak knife, screaming "You are all sinners and must join Christ". That`d probably bring the school to an end.
  31. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 12:24 am
    swoop408: Would you rather see these kids dragged out of a flop house in a body bag in a few years ? or perhaps sent to prison for being involved in drugs/crime ?

    The gay kid being sent there was dumb, if they thought it would turn him straight, that can only be successful if the person really wants to change voluntarily.

    After a thorough internet search, I never seen any bruises, scars, or evidence of of physical abuse or torture on any of these kids. PT is not torture or abuse, Hard work isn`t either. This camp is expensive, even the documentary says that only `rich kids` are sent there.

    To most of these spoiled brats, making their own bed is `abuse` in their minds, so forgive me if I don`t have much sympathy for them.

    It must be `torture` for these kids to forgo facebook, texting, and the internet for a few months. And God forbid they do any sort of manual labor. Attica! Attica! Attica! <sarcasm>
  32. Profile photo of som-tam
    som-tam Male 18-29
    713 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 1:19 am
    this is an obvious attempt to `even things out` after yesterdays post on islam, but as no religion is as barbaric as islam or has it barbarism approved by entire states and all its highest ranking officials, it inevitably fails its intended purpose
  33. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 2:19 am
    Based off of what I`ve seen- the parents of the kids sent there should be sterilized, and their kids should be emancipated. Then the kids should file charges, both civil and criminal, against their parents.

    Sending your child to a reform camp because they`re homosexual? Seriously, evangelicals? Seriously? And you wonder why "militant" atheists exist.
  34. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 5:57 am
    Crakr, let me just get this, are you really suggesting that one can change their sexuality?
  35. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 6:19 am
    @CrakrJak: Just a heads up-

    Forcing your child to do manual labor because they did poorly in school that year: totally okay.

    Forcing your child to leave the country/ their friends/ school/ social life to do manual labor because they figured out they liked the same sex: totally not okay.

    You`re supposed to punish behavior, not traits.
  36. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 6:31 am
    sexytexan: Did you even read the second sentence of my previous post ?
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 6:34 am
    spanerbulb: Yes they can, If they want to. And before you say that that is not possible, I know someone, personally, that has.
  38. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 6:57 am
    I know someone, personally, that has.

    Anecdotal evidence at best.
  39. Profile photo of bigkkm
    bigkkm Male 50-59
    98 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 7:16 am
    CrakrJak=smoking crack.
  40. Profile photo of FoolsPrussia
    FoolsPrussia Male 30-39
    3446 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 7:39 am
    "I know someone, personally, that has."

    Translation: I asked him out on a date and he said no.
  41. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 8:42 am
    "I have feeling though he was given an ultimatum by his parents, either go to the camp or leave their home."


    I have a feeling you are just making stuff up in order to minimize an example of morally questionable (possibly illegal) christian behavior in the name of Jesus.
  42. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 9:28 am
    Watch the movie Boot Camp (think that`s it, with Mila Kunis) It`s about similar camps that are not so nice.

    As for those poor bastards, once they turn 18 do they not have to let them go? In Canada they would have to, not sure how it works for you folks.
  43. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 9:57 am
    @CrakrJak: Yes, and then I read the rest of it.

    Also, homosexuality isn`t a choice. Nobody sits down one day and says, "Gee, I`d sure like to potentially ostracize myself from my family and friends. I also wouldn`t mind being discriminated against/ beaten."

    Of course, I`m open to being proven wrong, and if you`d like to do just that, by all means, choose to be a homosexual for the next week. Be sure to post the evidence here for all to see.
  44. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 2:22 pm
    wtf
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 8:01 pm
    sexytexan: I don`t want to turn this into a discussion about homosexuality, yet again.

    Suffice to say that scientists have turned gay mice into straight mice, and people have successfully changed their own sexual orientation.
  46. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 8:53 pm
    CrakrJak, I`ve don`t know what you think about it, but people of your ilk tend to say that homosexuality is not natural. If you feel this way, please explain the existence of gay mice.

    Also,IMO,the only people who make choices about how they express their sexuality are bisexual to some degree. Even if you`re 95% one way or the other, you can choose to not act on the 5%.

    The only way you can see it as a choice is if you are making a similar choice not to act on at least some of your true feelings everyday. So, if you feel that homosexuality is a choice, then you have to be at least a little gay. I don`t see any way around it.
  47. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 8:53 pm
    @CrakrJak
    Yes this is totally a justifiable method to resort to when you can`t properly parent your child. Obviously this is how you raise the perfect child. Denying them the right to minor emancipation for legitimate reasons is totally something we should all do.

    "Suffice to say that scientists have turned gay mice into straight mice"
    LOL
    That`s your evidence for it being a choice? The fact that altering the DNA that something is born with will change something about it? So it`s a choice because you`re born with it?
  48. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    February 11, 2012 at 9:06 pm
    sexytexan: I don`t want to turn this into a discussion about homosexuality, yet again.

    Suffice to say that scientists have turned gay mice into straight mice, and people have successfully changed their own sexual orientation.
    Say, CJ, I`ve got a swell idea. Let`s you and me both, as heterosexual men, choose to be gay for tomorrow and do our best to get f*cked in the ass by another man. Then let`s reconvene tomorrow on this very thread and discuss whether or not we enjoyed it.

    You know, since we chose to be gay, for a time.
  49. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:04 am
    @poonoodle. "The only way you can see it as a choice is if you are making a similar choice not to act on at least some of your true feelings everyday. So, if you feel that homosexuality is a choice, then you have to be at least a little gay. I don`t see any way around it."

    Best comment I have seen on IAB. You painted yourself into this corner CrakrJak. Why else would you be so sure it is a choice unless you are a little gay?
  50. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:27 am
    "sexytexan: I don`t want to turn this into a discussion about homosexuality, yet again.

    But here`s some random scientific study I pulled out of the ether to prove that I`m correct about homosexuality. Incidentally, I must have forgotten to link you to this study so as to not make you suspicious as to it`s validity. However, since I said I don`t want to discuss homosexuality, I would ask that you please ignore this, and just assume that I`m right. It`s easier for me this way."
  51. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:41 am
    some people who are gay are gay by choice but then again some are born that way. simple conclusion.
  52. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 1:59 am
    poonoodle: The only way you can see it as a choice is if you are making a similar choice...

    No, it is not the only way to see it as a choice. It`s the way you want to frame the conversation in such as way as to be facetious.

    Making false accusations of closeted homosexuality against those that disagree with homosexuality is like accusing atheists of being closeted Christians.

    davymid: Why don`t you choose to be a Christian for a day and go to church tomorrow ? I can guarantee that you won`t instantly turn into ashes upon walking into the door.

    I know you won`t do that, just as you won`t become gay, for a day, tomorrow either, and that`s your choice not to.

    It`s also a gay person`s choice to attempt to change their sexual attraction or not. And people like you telling them they can`t possibly be successful just adds to their misery and feelings of hopelessness.
  53. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 3:01 am
    @CrakrJak: They wouldn`t feel miserable in the first place if people like you would stop perpetuating the lie that there`s something wrong with them in the first place.

    Also, nice deflection on davymid- ignore the meat of his issue, and instead half-assedly pitch for him to become a christian.

    It`s very simple, we`re providing you a way to shut us up and prove us wrong. Since homosexuality is a choice, just choose to become sexually attracted to another man, and then f*ck his brains out. Just be sure to link us some proof. It`s a totally simple, and completely reasonable request. If you`re going to refuse it, at least specify WHY you`re refusing it.
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 3:46 am
    sexytexan: You aren`t providing anything of the sort, and neither you or anyone else that has proposed this facetious challenge would ever `shut up` no matter what.

    And I`m not trying to shut you up either, you`re free to have your own opinion. But apparently I`m not free to have my own opinion unless I`m willing to get a d|ck up my ass ?

    How about I make this `reasonable request`, why not quit posing facetious challenges ? It`s infantile. Really guys, what is IAB now a schoolyard with asinine dares and double dares ?
  55. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 5:21 am
    davymid: Why don`t you choose to be a Christian for a day and go to church tomorrow ? I can guarantee that you won`t instantly turn into ashes upon walking into the door.
    Crakrjak, you`re forgetting that I WAS a born-again Christian for many years. Bible camps, Christian Fellowships, the works. After I time, I realised it wasn`t for me, and decided to leave it. That`s the difference. I CHOSE not to be Christian, after being one. I, like you, couldn`t choose to be gay, or straight. Exactly my point.
  56. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 5:25 am
    It`s also a gay person`s choice to attempt to change their sexual attraction or not. And people like you telling them they can`t possibly be successful just adds to their misery and feelings of hopelessness.
    Again Crakrjak, the only people telling gay people that they have something wrong with them, that they have to change or be eternally miserable and hopeless, are religious people exactly like you.

    THAT, my friend, is what`s disgusting.
  57. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 6:30 am
    CrakrJak: I`m being totally serious. If you think being gay is a choice, then prove it to me. You made a claim. Now back it up, or admit that you`re wrong. This is the way the world works. If you want me to share the same viewpoint you do, you need to show me it`s valid. If you don`t want me to share the same viewpoint, then why did you post those ridiculous "facts" about your friend becoming straight, or mice being turned straight through science?

    If you`re unwilling to stand up for your opinion then perhaps you shouldn`t be allowed one anyway. But, hey, that`s just my opinion.
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:01 am
    davymid: Oh please, you know there are gays that put counter pressure on bisexuals and those that have `experimented` into becoming totally gay. There are people that struggle with that choice everyday and there are others that don`t. But don`t tell me that there aren`t gays that make bisexuals feel miserable for not choosing.
  59. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:04 am
    I find it interesting that homophobes like to use buzzwords like "indoctrination" or "brain-washing", and yet....there`s this. How sad and pathetic.
  60. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:07 am
    @CJ: Let me ask you something. Did you know any Tomboys when you were a kid who as adults have come out to be lesbians?
  61. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:22 am
    Suffice to say that scientists have turned gay mice into straight mice


    Oh wait Gay people ARE born that way? That indeed proves that being Gay is a 100% legitimate demographic.
  62. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:27 am
    sexytexan: Goad away all you want, you`ve already made up your mind. I really do not care if you share the same viewpoint or not.

    If you`re unwilling to stand up for your opinion then perhaps you shouldn`t be allowed one anyway.

    By `stand up` you mean engage in homo sex. No I won`t do that and it`s ridiculous that you think I, or anyone else, has to, or otherwise be censored. Maybe if you`re that intolerant of others opinions then perhaps maybe you belong in North Korea where everyone is commanded to think the same thing.
  63. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:28 am
    Oh please, you know there are gays that put counter pressure on bisexuals and those that have `experimented` into becoming totally gay.

    Not as much as there are straight people who put pressure on Bis AND Homos to become straight.

    There are people that struggle with that choice everyday and there are others that don`t.

    ...and there are groups that DON`T pressure them to make one choice over another unlike NARTH.

    But don`t tell me that there aren`t gays that make bisexuals feel miserable for not choosing.

    For every Gay there are dozens more straight religious guys doing the exact same thing.
  64. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:33 am
    Goad away all you want, you`ve already made up your mind

    Look who`s talking

    By `stand up` you mean engage in homo sex.

    Or maybe just form a romantic relationship with another man.
  65. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:34 am
    CrakrJak: ". Maybe if you`re that intolerant of others opinions then perhaps maybe you belong in North Korea where everyone is commanded to think the same thing."

    And perhaps you belong in Iran or Uganda where everyone is commanded to think the same thing.
  66. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:35 am
    Cajun: Maybe that indeed proves that being gay is 100% curable, :Gasp: How many would then choose not to be cured ? I mean if being gay is so miserable and they are so discriminated against and so downtrodden, who wouldn`t want to be cured ? How many would then jump to the argument that it`s their choice to be gay and that no one could force them to be cured ?
  67. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:38 am
    jtrebowski: As I`ve already said I don`t care what you think, your free to have your opinion and I`m not telling you that you have to put up or shut up.
  68. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:48 am
    I mean if being gay is so miserable and they are so discriminated against and so downtrodden, who wouldn`t want to be cured ?

    Should religious minorities be cured of their faith? Should dwarfs be cured? Should albinos be cured?
  69. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:51 am
    Should blacks in the 60s and before been "cured", as you put it, of their ethnicity because of the social stigma it brought upon them?
  70. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:52 am
    Cajun: For every Gay there are dozens more straight religious guys doing the exact same thing.

    That`s anecdotal at best.

    Not as much as there are straight people who put pressure on Bis AND Homos to become straight.

    Yeah right, as if I look at lesbian or bisexual women everyday and wish to turn them straight. Where did you get your introduction to sexual norms ? Porno movies perhaps ?

    Sorry to burst you bubble but I don`t know of any guy that looked at Chastity Bono and thought, "I wish I could turn her straight".
  71. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 7:58 am
    Yeah right, as if I look at lesbian or bisexual women everyday and wish to turn them straight.

    Yet you say they should.

    Where did you get your introduction to sexual norms ? Porno movies perhaps ?

    Way to go resorting to childish accusations, by the way I`ve never watched porn movies before.
  72. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:02 am
    @CrakrJak: How about we all come to a compromise? Seeing that there are indeed bisexuals, I can see how in some cases, preference is a choice, but there are other cases where, even if you ignore the scientific proof that sexuality is NOT always a choice, common sense should prevail. For example, I know three women who I went to elementary school with that were tomboys even back in 2nd grade. All three are now lesbians, and, I might add, happy. Their sexual orientation in no way affects me (or you for that matter) negatively. So why on earth do you people feel it`s so important to try to change them?
  73. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:05 am
    Cajun: Firstly, Religion is not something that is curable, Secondly, in some cases those with dwarfism can be helped to grow taller, if they wish to be, before adolescence. Thirdly, I`m not sure if albinism could ever be cured, but I`m pretty sure most would like to be cured of it.

    Should blacks in the 60s and before been "cured"

    Absurd question, Michael Jackson became whiter than most white people, but he was still black. `Blackness` is more than just one`s skin color, it`s cultural.
  74. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:08 am
    Cajun: I said that if they want to change they should be free to make that choice. Not that they all be forced to do so.
  75. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:15 am
    CrakrJak: I never said you have to think the same thing I do, I merely said if you`re unwilling to stand behind your own statements, perhaps you shouldn`t make them in the first place?

    From what I`ve seen, you seem to be somewhat intelligent. It`s just a shame you`re so narrow minded and stubborn.
  76. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:15 am
    jtrebowski: Are you trying to lump me in with the WBC idiots with that remark ? If so, you`re way off target.

    If people want to change back to being straight they should be allowed that opportunity without any stigma or counter pressure from their gay friends.
  77. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:17 am
    Firstly, Religion is not something that is curable

    Yes I but I could become catholic tomorrow if I wanted to. What you were suggesting is that people who face discrimination should just bow to conformity and have themselves "cured".

    Absurd question, Michael Jackson became whiter than most white people, but he was still black

    You`ve dodged the question by putting forth an anecdotal soundbite.

    `Blackness` is more than just one`s skin color, it`s cultural.

    So?
  78. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:18 am
    If people want to change back to being straight they should be allowed that opportunity without any stigma or counter pressure from their gay friends.

    Yet more often than this they`re faced with stigma and pressure from straight religious people to do the same.
  79. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:28 am
    sexytexan: "put up or shut up" is a false challenge used by ideologues to censor their opposition.

    Should you be forced to sing the national anthem, to prove you`re a patriotic American ?

    Should you be subject to unreasonable searches to prove you aren`t a drug dealer ?

    I mean if you have nothing to fear, why not ?
    <sarcasm off>
  80. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:37 am
    Cajun: What you were suggesting is that people who face discrimination should just bow to conformity and have themselves "cured".

    No I`m not suggesting that at all, you have the freedom to make all the choices in your life, one way or another or perhaps to not decide at all.

    And everyone faces discrimination at one time or another in their lives, it`s not unique just to certain groups.
  81. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:42 am
    No I`m not suggesting that at all, you have the freedom to make all the choices in your life, one way or another or perhaps to not decide at all.

    I`m saying if it is indeed genetic, than it is facetious to ask them to change for the sake of conformity.
  82. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:47 am
    CrakrJak: You`re missing your mark completely.

    You made a claim ("Homosexuality is a choice.") I asked you to prove your claim. What about that is unreasonable?

    Your examples are invalid, by the way. You make it look like I`m telling you to back up a claim you never made. In order for them to relate to the issue at hand- they`d have to look like this:

    "If you told everyone you were the most patriotic American alive today, should you be asked to sing the national anthem to prove you`re a patriotic American?"

    Because you seem to have a hard time grasping simple concepts, I`ll break it down further.

    Your example boils down to proving something that was never said. My example, and my argument, boils down to proving something that was said.
  83. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:53 am
    @CrakrJak: I`m not trying to be facetious at all. If one is 100% straight, then one would know with 100% certainty that nothing, NOTHING, could make you choose to go the other way. There is too big of a disgusts factor. I think green beans are disgusting and there is no way I would choose to eat one. (Before I offend anybody, some of my best friends eat green beans.) Logic would dictate that someone who is 100% gay must also have the same disgust factor when when it comes to straight sex.

    So, IMO, someone is either 100% gay or straight, or they see some choice in the matter. You are going to have to explain to me how both of those realities could occupy a normally functioning, logical and reasoned mind at the same time.

    p.s. I did not accuse you of "closeted homosexuality", as the word "accuse" implies that I think you did something wrong. I only stated that your position on the subject leads to that conclusion...if properly thought out.
  84. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:54 am
    I also like how you implied that by asking for proof of your statement, I`m somehow censoring you.

    "Well, sir, I`m sure that there is a robot army biding their time within the big red spot on Jupiter, but I`m afraid without any proof we`ll be forced ignore you and go about our daily lives."

    "You want me to PROVE what I`ve told you? THAT`S CENSORSHIP YOU IGNORANT CLOSE-MINDED ZEALOT!"

    Anyway, I`m done beating a dead horse. Just promise me you won`t breed, CrakrJak.
  85. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:08 am
    poonoodle: Here is the thing though, You aren`t claiming discrimination for not liking green beans. It`s a matter of taste, but you weren`t born with it. You choose not to eat green beans and that`s fine, but perhaps someone, like you, really does want to like green beans, they should be free to make that effort if they want to.

    sexytexan: No, now you`re trying to change the story. You, along with others, challenged me to either try to be gay or shut up. That`s the `proof` you insisted upon and I said that that was a ridiculous request.
  86. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:13 am
    That`s the `proof` you insisted upon and I said that that was a ridiculous request.

    Well the rest of your reasoning is sunk, thus your assertion was wrong from the start.
  87. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:15 am
    "jtrebowski: Are you trying to lump me in with the WBC idiots with that remark ? "

    No, but I am accusing you of being a conservative, aka known as someone who argues the case for preventing others to have the same freedoms and civil liberties as we enjoy. If you think about it, whether it`s genetic, or a choice, there`s no good reason to be so vocal against it unless it adversely impacts your life. Since conservatives are so passionate about denying equality, my question is....how does it impact yours?
  88. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:17 am
    they should be free to make that effort if they want to

    Then you shouldn`t ask them to eat greenbeans if they don`t make that effort.
  89. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:18 am
    "And everyone faces discrimination at one time or another in their lives, it`s not unique just to certain groups. "

    So, why be a part of that discrimination other than just to be an ass hole?
  90. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:26 am
    jtrebowski: So tell me, how many ugly girls have you dated lately. I mean since discrimination is so bad and harmful to everyone then you shouldn`t be allowed to make any choices on your own, they should all be randomized.
  91. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:29 am
    Cajun: Even if I could prove that eating green beans is good for you ?

    Aren`t liberals like Michelle Obama telling people what they should and shouldn`t eat ? If you don`t like vegetables, isn`t that then discrimination on her part ?
  92. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:42 am
    Even if I could prove that eating green beans is good for you ?

    Of course because I could find other things that are just as effective at maintaining my health.

    If you don`t like vegetables, isn`t that then discrimination on her part ?

    Well she isn`t setting up clinics to teach people how to enjoy veggies.
  93. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Cajun: Not yet, but she`s making demands that our children are taught that. What`s next ? mandatory nutrition classes ? If you don`t eat your broccoli you get and F ?
  94. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:45 am
    She also isn`t painting meat and potatoes people as irresponsible, selfish, and unconcerned about society in general.
  95. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:47 am
    Not yet, but she`s making demands that our children are taught that. What`s next ? mandatory nutrition classes ? If you don`t eat your broccoli you get and F ?

    All of which I`d oppose, and you`re changing the subject.
  96. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 10:02 am
    Crakrjak: "So tell me, how many ugly girls have you dated lately. I mean since discrimination is so bad and harmful to everyone then you shouldn`t be allowed to make any choices on your own, they should all be randomized."

    Sigh...first of all, I`ve been happily married for 15 years. Secondly, I`m not advocating that "ugly" (is that how Christians describe them) girls not be entitled to match up with whomever they like. Thirdly, you veering dangerously into the territory that so many cons do when understanding the subtlties of the word "discriminate". Lastly...you still haven`t answered a few of my questions, like how homosexuality even affects your life.
  97. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 10:38 am
    I don`t think that I could every learn to like green beans, but I will concede that I could be conditioned to not barf when I eat one. I also accept that taste in food is, at least partially, based in culture. (think kimchi or maggot cheese) But I was making the analogy because of the disgust factor, not the discrimination. (I really hate green beans.)

    Do you think, if the tables were turned, that you cound condition yourself to, if not enjoy, tolerate a sexual relationship with a man? If your family, your friends, and a good portion of society told you that you should. That you were living incorrectly and that you needed to be cured. And throw in the threat of eternal, magical torture if you fail. I mean, maybe it is possible, but I don`t think "choice" is the word to use there. Brainwashed maybe? Pavlovian conditioning?
  98. Profile photo of poonoodle
    poonoodle Male 30-39
    40 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 10:39 am
    If someone broke into my house and put a gun to my kid`s head and said "Hump some dude or the boy gets it!", I`d do what I had to do, but there really is no "choice" involved. Maybe we are just arguing over semantics. Maybe you should say that you think that is possible to condition someone to live as you see fit, with no regard to their own happiness or well being.

    Now if someone is bi, then they have every right to choose which way they go and I would defend that right either way. Any pressue applied to them, from either side, is wrong and it`s only purpose is some self-surving agenda.
  99. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    Cajun: Oh really, she hasn`t ? Apparently you haven`t read many of her quotes lately.
  100. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    poonoodle: I`ve seen a straight kid, who was my best friend, through bullying, accusation, and betrayal, over a decade of time become a homosexual.

    He was planning to get married, his GF said she was pregnant. Turned out she lied to him and he gave up women. He`s now a hairstylist in business with his partner.

    So did it effect my life ? What do you think ?
  101. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:34 pm
    "So did it effect my life ? What do you think ? "

    Other than getting discounts for haircuts? No. No it didn`t.
  102. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    By the way, If you think I have any animosity toward him, you`d be wrong. I understand how it happened, get told enough times that your gay or queer, get beaten up, and have an overprotective mother, over ten years time and then have a heartbreaking betrayal or traumatic event, like he did, and it`s not a far leap to make to the other side.
  103. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    jtrebowski: He decided to abandon all of his old friends, I can only guess the questions were too tough to answer for him, and no I don`t get free haircuts, haven`t talked with him in over 20 years.
  104. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    @CrakrJak

    Again anecdotal evidence, and not even against homosexuality but against bullying
  105. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    Also my parents also had old friends that went elsewhere who they`ve never talked to since.
  106. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    Yep. What Cajun said.
  107. Profile photo of Seak
    Seak Male 18-29
    1505 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm
    "You go to hell, you go to hell and you die!" Mr.Garrison.
  108. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm
    "I`ve seen a straight kid, who was my best friend, through bullying, accusation, and betrayal, over a decade of time become a homosexual."

    Your friend was always gay you moron. He felt the need to hide it because of the way he was treated. Christ if I was your friend growing up I would have hid it also.
  109. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm
    "Religion is not something that is curable"

    This is such a stupid statement even by your standards. Religion is 100% learned. You are not born religious. If a jewish baby and a Christian baby were switched at birth they would be raised to be the the faith of the people raising them. And most of the Atheists I know were once very religious.
  110. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 5:35 pm
    markust: No, my friend wasn`t `born gay`, he had no siblings, he liked girls, and other than being shorter and weaker (because of a late puberty) he showed no signs of actually being `gay`.

    I`m telling you that everyone that knew him was truly shocked when he came out. I`m sure his story is neither unique or typical. But I`m sure the tipping point for him was the betrayal of fake pregnancy.
  111. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 5:38 pm
    No, my friend wasn`t `born gay`, he had no siblings, he liked girls, and other than being shorter and weaker (because of a late puberty) he showed no signs of actually being `gay`

    Just because no indicators show up doesn`t mean it didn`t happen, you just didn`t know him that well.
  112. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 6:53 pm
    CrakrJak, I came out to my best friend when I was 24. I`d been friends with him since pre-school. He was shocked. When you are gay and raised to be straight you are forced to hide the truth about yourself. Believe me your friend was always gay.
  113. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:17 pm
    Did Larry Craig ever show "signs of being gay"? How about George Rekers? Hell What about Rock Hudson?
  114. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 8:53 pm
    I was cured of religion \o/ I used to have something in my profile on IAB like "Just because I`m a Christian doesn`t mean I`m stupid" because I got attacked for my stupid comments all the time. :P Ah my embarrassing past self.
  115. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:12 pm
    Aha! So THIS is the thread you guys have been hanging out in... clearly I have a lot of catching up to do.
  116. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm
    But, Lillian, your profile now lists you as "Buddhist."

    ~Squrlz decides to map out Lillian`s spiritual evolution (past, present, and future) on the back of a napkin~

    Christian -> Buddhist -> Atheist -> Wiccan -> Agnostic Vegan -> Mormon (after first ill-advised marriage) -> First Church of Klingon (after divorce)...
  117. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm
    I`m a Buddhist (and an atheist, I don`t believe any god exists) but I don`t really consider it a religion, more like a philosophy xD I don`t believe in ~magical things~ or following old texts for fear of eternal suffering and whatnot.
  118. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 9:53 pm
    I definitely believe in magical things. Do you believe in reincarnation?
  119. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 12, 2012 at 10:49 pm
    No, not in the sense that someone dies and completely becomes another creature (though I`d prefer that over an eternal afterlife, it doesn`t make logical sense, considering what makes us /us/ is our brains which will die just as we die).
  120. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 2:20 am
    markust: I seriously doubt that a guy that got erections staring at girls in study hall was `born gay`. He either `cracked` or decided to get revenge on his ex-GF, no one knows and he wouldn`t talk about it with anyone. Like the flip side of a coin, he`s a completely different person now.
  121. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 3:00 am
    I seriously doubt that a guy that got erections staring at girls in study hall was `born gay`

    You know this HOW exactly?
  122. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 3:15 am
    Cajun: Because one of our mutual friends in high school, who was in study hall with him, told me about it and how he tried to hide it.
  123. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 4:59 am
    Because one of our mutual friends in high school, who was in study hall with him, told me about it and how he tried to hide it.

    Uh-huh a friend of a friend...
    ...okay then.
  124. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:39 am
    @CrakrJak: So all this hostility you carry towards homosexuality stems from one friend who decides he`s gay? First of all, he certainly wouldn`t be the first one to come to terms with it later in life. Secondly, high school kids get boners all the time. Of course your friend told your other friend it was because of a girl, because, like we said before, it seems pretty clear that he wouldn`t have been comfortable telling y`all that he was gay. Lastly, as you stated, he now has a hair salon with his partner, and as far as you know, he`s happy. He was your friend...why can`t you just be happy for him?
  125. Profile photo of Gottamgear
    Gottamgear Male 18-29
    670 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:40 am
    CrakrJak what if your friend got an erection from looking at the guys in study hall but lied to your other friend that it was caused by staring at girls.
  126. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 7:22 am
    jtrebowski: No, I`m not hostile toward anyone that`s gay, and certainly am indifferent to his new life. Initially I was disheartened that he abandoned everyone that called him a friend, but it`s been 20 years, if he`s happy so be it.
  127. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 8:11 am
    @CrakrJak: Ok, you may not be hostile directly, but you should be smart enough to realize that despite what the overwhelming majority of gay people will testify about whether or not sexuality is a choice or not, and you continue to claim that you know better, or that they shouldn`t be able to enjoy the same freedom to marry as we do, that it can be interpreted as hostility.
  128. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:13 am
    jtrebowski: I sense a lot of hostility in you as `you continue to claim that you know better` as well.

    Since I`ve known people that have made choices, in that respect, and not claiming to be `born that way`, perhaps my view is correct one.

    As I said before, the likelihood that those claiming to be `born gay` would change to `it`s our choice` would grow significantly if there was a cure found. As I don`t believe most would take the cure because they`d wish to maintain their lifestyle by choice.
  129. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:18 am
    As I said before, the likelihood that those claiming to be `born gay` would change to `it`s our choice` would grow significantly if there was a cure found. As I don`t believe most would take the cure because they`d wish to maintain their lifestyle by choice.

    Like ethnicity it was not their choice to begin with.
  130. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:08 am
    Everyone, it`s really not worth arguing about sexuality with CrakrJak.

    The man`s in his 40s and he`s clearly not getting any sex. That`s bound to make him cranky. Cut him some slack.
  131. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:51 pm
    "As I said before, the likelihood that those claiming to be `born gay` would change to `it`s our choice` would grow significantly if there was a cure found."

    No, it`d be further proof that it`s not a choice. However, it`d justify people like you discriminating against gay people, because they`d have the "choice" to change themselves which shouldn`t be seen as a positive thing.
  132. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    @Musuko42 - I understand getting frustrated with someone, but you do realize that CrakrJak (and people with similar opinions) can very well discredit anything you say because you decided to mindlessly personally attack him (which doesn`t come off as "I`m correct" but rather "I`m wrong so I`m going to attack him since I have nothing else to say") rather than either countering his points or simply walking away...
  133. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm
    Lillian: However, it`d justify people like you discriminating against gay people..

    Actually no it wouldn`t, Some people choose to be `Goth`, `Hippie, `Redneck`, `Jersey`, etc.. I wouldn`t personally discriminate against anyone that appeared to be stereotypical of any group. Looks can be deceiving and I`m pretty sure if you ever seen me, upon first glance you wouldn`t think I`m a Christian or conservative.
  134. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm
    I find it remarkable how CrakrJak has managed to change the subject drastically.
  135. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm
    CrakrJak, I think you missed my point. Being gay is often already considered a bad thing. Gay people being able to be "cured" (meaning it was something they were born with but somehow people were able to change their DNA and get rid of the gayness) would mean there wouldn`t be a reason to give gay people rights, because they literally could have a procedure done that would stop them from being gay. It`d justify bigotry against them. People already try to get gay people to stop being gay which generally causes severe mental trauma, but think about if it was an actual option. Parents forcing their kids to become ungay against their will, and having it actually work (when it doesn`t now but people still try). People being harassed for being gay because they actually have the option to get it "fixed" and people would see less of a reason for protection groups and such. And there`d be no reason to give them rights since they could be "fixed".
  136. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:36 pm
    "Since I`ve known people that have made choices, in that respect..."
    You provided one anecdotal example that couldn`t be proven as a "choice".
    "Looks can be deceiving ....." Correct. Most people assume I`m a wealthy conservative Republican when they meet me. Maybe you assumed your buddy wasn`t gay.
    "As I said before, the likelihood that those claiming to be `born gay` would change to `it`s our choice` would grow significantly if there was a cure found. As I don`t believe most would take the cure because they`d wish to maintain their lifestyle by choice. "
    And so what if they do?
  137. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:51 pm
    "No, I`m not hostile toward anyone that`s gay, and certainly am indifferent to his new life. Initially I was disheartened that he abandoned everyone that called him a friend, but it`s been 20 years, if he`s happy so be it."

    This statement says more about you and the rest of the friends he deserted. Think about the horrible things you guys said about gay people in front of him when he was pretending to be straight. Even if you were joking it would still have hurt him deeply. The way you see it is you had a straight friend who turned gay. But as a gay man I assure you that you had a gay friend who finally admitted to himself what he really is. And when he was no longer your "straight" friend I bet it is you who deserted him. Maybe not flat out but by your reaction, words and body language. Instead of telling your friend that you loved him the same as you did yesterday I bet you told him that you loved the sinner but not the sin.
  138. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:44 pm
    Lillian: You`re missing the point. A lot of groups are discriminated against based on the choice of how they look, and they don`t have any special rights or protections, how is that any different ?

    markust: Because I, and the rest of his friends, knew how he was teased, as a kid, none of us told him jokes like that would hurt his, or anyone else`s, feelings and that would`ve also included jokes about glasses, braces, being fat, etc..

    Sorry, but you are grasping for assumptions, as you often do, and missing the mark.

    If he was mad at me, why would he say hello to me at the mall, where he worked ? I didn`t ask him about what went on, at that time, because he was working and it wouldn`t have been appropriate and I didn`t want him to feel bad.

    The image you`ve built up of me as some sort of gay basher is an illusion.
  139. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 12:17 am
    markust: After 20 years and several moves, hundreds of miles away, since then, I`m not concerned about it anymore. I`d rather let sleeping dogs lay than potentially cause a stir.
  140. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 12:18 am
    I make these "assumptions" CrakrJak because you make a lot of gay people on here uncomfortable with your comments about gay people. I`m no saint. I have made religious people uncomfortable with some of my comments about religion. Why don`t you go back and talk to your friend. Ask him if you or your friends did anything that would have caused him to leave the circle. If you were as good as you say you were around him it shouldn`t be a problem. Maybe he read into things like you say I do. If so you could set his mind free. I will freely admit I am no expert in this area. I had a trauma free life up until age 38 where I had a crash course in the bad side of life. Something made your friend leave. It could be as simple as he wanted to leave his old life. And you guys were just collateral damage.
  141. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 12:21 am
    I wasn`t recommending it to make you feel better. I`ll shut up. It`s none of my business.
  142. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 12:24 am
    A lot of groups are discriminated against based on the choice of how they look, and they don`t have any special rights or protections, how is that any different ?

    Now you`re making apples and oranges comparison
  143. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 7:54 am
    "A lot of groups are discriminated against based on the choice of how they look, and they don`t have any special rights or protections, how is that any different ?"

    Wait? Goths aren`t allowed to marry each other?

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