Interracial Marriage Compared To Same-Sex Marriage

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in

In the past, local standards held that it was unacceptable for black men to marry white women. Is it comparable I-A-B?
There are 303 comments:
Male 260
There are differences between the legal status of race and sexuality, and there are similarities.
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Male 89
most bulling is actually caused by insomnia
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Male 1,793
it sure made him mad, must have hit too close to the truth.... bigotry is bigotry no matter what you incase it in...
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Female 2,674
"Most straight parents want straight kids, who would want their kids to face the bullying and harassment ? A cure would certainly be popular."

I wouldn`t /want/ my kid to be gay, any more than I`d /want/ my kid to be a girl. Basically, I don`t care whether they`re gay or not. A "cure" would be atrocious because you`re changing how your kid was born, possibly without their consent. All for the sake of no bullying? How about we continue to try to change the beliefs of homophobes and then maybe bullying will be lessened. Nearly everyone I know, gay or not, has been bullied for some reason or another. "Curing" gay people wouldn`t stop that. It`d breed further hatred toward gay people though, thinking they`re too poor or stupid or something to be "cured". It`d give more "arguments" for why they don`t deserve equal rights, too.
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Male 234
!crakrjak kids get teased for having red hair or being too short. Just because we know the genes that encode these traits doesn`t mean we are going to try and "cure" them. Your constant insinuation of homosexuality as a disease just proves your own bigotry and lack of knowledge on the subject.
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Male 2,729
You can not control who you fall in love with...it just happens. Anyone should be able to marry whomever they want...who are you to judge?
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Male 5,811
[quote]patchgrabber: The fact that the case wasn`t thrown out immediately and had to go to a higher court to be `upheld`, proves that I`m correct.[/quote]

There you go, moving the goalposts again. Since you seem uninformed I`ll tell you that a provincial supreme court is roughly equal to your district courts. Odd as it may seem, people do appeal rulings. You do understand how an appeal process works, yes?
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Male 17,511
patchgrabber: The fact that the case wasn`t thrown out immediately and had to go to a higher court to be `upheld`, proves that I`m correct.
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Male 5,811
"patchgrabber: 5cats has already confirmed that polygamy is already making inroads up there in Canada, so quit with the sarcasm."

Do you even read these posts? This is the "proof" you claim 5cats pointed out:
"@jendrian: Polygamy is next in Canada. Followed by I don`t know what.
In Canada, pre-neptual agreements are worthless. Even a pre-nep arranged by two lawyers (husband and wife I mean) won`t hold up. It`s the "wild west" up here bro."

That`s not proof, it`s unsubstantiated fear-mongering. In fact, just last October our courts upheld the ban on polygamy, so you`re just an uninformed idealogue.
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Male 17,511
Squrlz: A good link for once, one that explored all sides of the issue. The problem here is that if researchers find a genetic cause, like they supposedly did in rodents and then found how to reverse it, a `cure` could likely be seen as an attack on gays.

Most straight parents want straight kids, who would want their kids to face the bullying and harassment ? A cure would certainly be popular.


And the commercial for it wouldn`t be dissimilar to this recent one.
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Male 1,093
But, you can change who you love. The proof, people divorce and remarry do they not? Love could become hate, but your race will remain the same (unless you go through some surgeries and what nots)
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Male 1,793
really pissed him off didn`t it... must be a good analogy huh?
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Male 6,227
@Draculya: A quick Google search finds published studies, and articles citing them, on both sides of the genetic/not-genetic divide. One of the better articles (which makes the case for a genetic connection) can be found here.

Regarding your belief that within every straight person there`s a gay person "thrusting to get out," I have to ask: Do you believe that within every gay person there`s a straight person "thrusting to get out"? Why privilege one orientation over the other? Just curious.
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Male 6,227
"I fink you freaky and I like you a lot!"

~Squrlz breaks out the glowsticks and wiggles it~
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Male 4,999
"Can`t wait to hear how you`re going to object to the polygamists that want their `civil rights`, now that the word marriage has become as malleable as aluminum foil."

I would think you would be for polygamy Crakrjak. It`s all over the bible in a positive way. Personally I could care less. And besides the people that want polygamy are such a small number it is not even on the radar. Bringing this up now is just the sad words of a loser. Not that you are a loser but that you are losing the fight.
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Male 15,259
@gerry oh shoot. Please don`t tell me Bruce Lee is gay too.

@squrlz I don`t think there is any evidence of a gay gene, or significant genetic predisposition, I think it is in all of us. Inside every straight person is a gay person thrusting to get out.

I think some people choose to acton their impulses, some people have never considered it and some repress their urges.

It`s right to recognise other people`s union, though, and specifically to grant due legal status.
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Male 2,516
@CrakrJak: It`ll take some smart people to figure out how to operate a marriage with more than 2 people. But a marriage with 2 people is pretty easy and nothing new. Why does it matter who does 2 adults are? (yeah, exclude pedophiles).
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Male 17,511
markust: Can`t wait to hear how you`re going to object to the polygamists that want their `civil rights`, now that the word marriage has become as malleable as aluminum foil.
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Female 2,228
Congratulations Markust! Speaking from experience, nothing is more fun than watching the more retrograde citizens of your state attempt to undo an idea whose time has come. They go out in bright blazes of Failtastic glory, stock up on the popcorn. ;-)
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Male 17,511
patchgrabber: 5cats has already confirmed that polygamy is already making inroads up there in Canada, so quit with the sarcasm.
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Male 4,999
Marriage Equality just passed the Washington State House. Next stop Governor Christine Gregoire`s desk for her signature. Once again love and tolerance has one.
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Male 2,516
haha up until now I had forgotten that me and my wife are an interracial couple. I didn`t even consider what it would be like if we weren`t allowed to marry. Now that I have... I don`t think I care that much, sure we`re getting some benefits from being married, but other than waiting longer on immigration, we`d still be the same, as I know most gay couples here feel about it so... yeah, it`s the same.
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Male 39,880

Gary, I agree the feds and the Supremes are wimps and want to pass on making a stand, but a marriage in one state is currently honored in all states. This prevents polygamy acrossed state lines. So if one state allows gay marriage, then ALL states have to honor it. There`s no way the Supremes can pass on hearing the case.

Unless the feds get a constitutional amendment passed banned it, then it`s no longer an issue.
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Male 4,999
The final vote for Marriage Equality in Washington State just started. There are easily enough votes in the House for this to pass and the Governor will sign it later this week. Even if the bigots get enough signatures for a ballot to take away these rights there are enough votes in the state to defeat it. We were the first state to approve Civil Unions by popular vote (53%). We will have marriage equality in my home state by November. Suck on that haters!
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Male 7,123
When the only answer you have is `I`m offended` you just lost the argument.
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Male 1,197
i like how the black man discriminates against the gays and then takes offence when it is compared to how the whites discriminated the blacks many years ago
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Male 4,999
"And the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Liberals rarely acknowledge the unintended consequences of their actions and rarer yet take responsibility for them."

This is not a Liberal or Conservative issue. Your world is so black and white. Many conservatives including my parents understand that this issue is about love and equality. This is a civil rights issue. Why would you deny two people who love each other the conservative value of marriage? Conservatives should embrace this. And they slowly are. You`ll get there.
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Male 25,416
ok then..
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Male 5,811
[quote]And the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Liberals rarely acknowledge the unintended consequences of their actions and rarer yet take responsibility for them.[/quote]

Yeah, because up here in Canada where it`s legal we`ve all degenerated into beastiality, polygamy, and whatever other fear-mongering BS you`re insinuating. Marriage means nothing up here, it`s become a depraved husk of its former glory. Oh wait, none of that happened? Yeah, that`s what I thought.
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Male 17,511
markust: And the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Liberals rarely acknowledge the unintended consequences of their actions and rarer yet take responsibility for them.
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Male 314
The analogy is perfect, even if it is insensitive. Should we shy away from using this argument to expose the unfairness of gay/lesbian discrimination? If anything it just highlights how unfair the discrimination is. I respect the fight of the African-American community for equality. Seems like the two communities are fighting for the same thing and should be natural allies.
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Male 10,440
I can`t believe I just listened to all that. Stupidest thing I ever heard. Well, no, that`s not true...
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Male 4,999
You can actually see in the comments the intelligence and compassion pick up as soon as Crakrjak is done with his last post and 5Cats already gone. The page of comments afterwards is wonderful, loving and tolerant. I hope the gay teens on here ignore the first 10 pages of garbage.
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Male 4,745
Well said, Batmanners.
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Male 946
@ Gerry
I`m all for gay marriage. I have many gay friends in serious relationships who want to take that next step. I think they should be allowed to. Hell, they seem to take marriage more seriously than most heterosexuals I know. But I also think if you`re waiting for the federal government to make a decision on it, you`re going to be seriously disappointed.
Here`s what I envision happenning. It will go to The Supreme Court and they will do one of two things. They will either strike it down or they will pass it with ambiguous restrictions that will put the decision in the states hands anyway.
Again, I know it sounds like I`m being cynical but when I talk to my homosexual friends about this topic, honestly, they seem cynical about it as well. But they also hold out hope. Maybe I should as well.
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Male 4,004
"There should be no "indifference" unless it`s the same indifference you feel toward straight couples."

That`s what it is, I have a hard time describing my feelings of something that doesn`t affect me emotionally.

I never chose to be human, I never chose to be white, I never chose to be Canadian, I never chose to be straight, I never chose the size of my penis (UNFORTUNATELY!). Some things just happen, you make a gay child, back him up and love him and most importantly, listen to him/her. They may not be having a very easy adolescence...make sure they make it alive though it.
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Male 4,745
...
We need to stand up for human rights. We need to teach our kids that "gay" is not any different than "straight" when it comes to respect and expectations of rights. We need to teach our kids that it`s OK to be who you are. We need to stop looking at a gay person as someone who is different.
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Male 4,745
@Batmanners,
I would never suggest that, in order to be straight, you have to be repulsed by gays (an overcompensated attempt to fit in by school age kids, that is one of the many reasons there are so many problems today). I accept folks that are gay, 100%. I can see them kiss and hug and get married and do all the things a straight couple does and have the same feelings I have about the straight couple. There should be no "indifference" unless it`s the same indifference you feel toward straight couples.

This isn`t about disgust. It`s about accepting the fact that some folks are born gay and they are no different than anyone else. To suggest a gay person is a straight person who has chosen to be gay is like saying that a black person is a white person who has chosen to be black.

...
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Male 1,045
Well, both are wrong according to ultra-right assh0les, so yeah, they`re pretty much comparable.
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Female 2,674
"I have to laugh at the loser in this video who gets all defensive when the tables are turned on him. "It`s ok to hate and discriminate against someone else, just don`t hate and discriminate against me! That would be wrong!!!" LOL!"

It`s even more amusing when you consider he`s the same kind of person who will freely compare gay marriage to pedophilia/bestiality (the "what`s coming next? marrying an animal? marrying a child?" kind of person. I`m leaving polyamory out of that on purpose but it`s generally included too) And yet this argument is somehow unfair.
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Male 4,004
And trust me, I don`t come off as gay, I come off as not giving a crap about it. It`s hard to explain. I`ve asked people if I came off as gay before, and they said I would make a terrible gay person for some reason...

In high school I was self conscious because I wasn`t sure (since I wasn`t repulsed by gays the same way my friends were). But then I realized I was not interested in ANY of my guy friends (especially not the ones with the big dicks in the gym locker room) and that all I ever did was pursue girls. So unfortunately, I came out as a straight guy, destined to have my heart broken by these treacherous bitches.
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Male 86
Very well stated patchouly.

I`m a gay man in Texas, and I think it`s pretty ridiculous how, in 2012, being gay/gay marriage is STILL an issue... It`s part of life, culture, society... get over it!
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Male 4,004
"maybe you need to look at your own sexuality and maybe come to terms with a few things you may have not"

I have accepted that I am straight, and that I will never get to know the feeling of hot jizz in my mouth, or the feeling of sex with a hairy assed man, or the feel of his mustache on my balls...

Nope, not gay. I`m stuck having sex with girls in their vaginas. Damn it.

Accepting =/= Admitting.

One can accept that he`s straight with gay impulses, that doesn`t mean he`s admitted to his bisexual tendencies.

Personally, the thought of gay sex is neutral to me. I`m not turned on, nor am I repulsed. I don`t watch it because I don`t find anything appealing in it (Just like watching the View). For that to work though, real world application; I`m not afraid of being called out as being gay despite being straight. If I were to play chicken with a kiss on a dude, if he didn`t pull away, we`d end up locking lips.
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Male 4,745
Regarding same sex marriage. To deny a right to a person, that is freely given to others, is wrong. It goes against any idea of "freedom" your country holds and is nothing more than blatant discrimination. Human rights are human rights.

I have to laugh at the loser in this video who gets all defensive when the tables are turned on him. "It`s ok to hate and discriminate against someone else, just don`t hate and discriminate against me! That would be wrong!!!" LOL!
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Male 702
@Gerry
I will not forget your oppressive punch to the face. No sir, you will pay!
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Male 4,745
Draculya:
"I don`t think there is any evidence of a gay gene, or significant genetic predisposition, I think it is in all of us. Inside every straight person is a gay person thrusting to get out.

I think some people choose to acton their impulses, some people have never considered it and some repress their urges."
------

Dude, I think you may be gay.

I support gay rights 100% and I have no problem seeing gay men expressing their love, but the thought of myself "being" with a man, makes me feel a little sick. I am 100% sure I could never do it. I`m not repressing anything, I`m just not gay. I`m sure gay men feel the same way when they think of being with women. Some folks are born straight, some folks are born bisexual and some folks are born gay. To suggest that everyone has a gay person locked up inside makes me think that maybe you need to look at your own sexuality and maybe come to terms with a few things you may have not
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Male 39,880

Gary, I`m of 2 minds. The way it`s written, USA is supposed to be run by states not the Feds. But that was written when they couldn`t effectively run a large area, it had to be subdivided. Now with techonology it can be effectively managed from a central location, thus reducing the confusion of 50 different rule books.

But marriage is regulated Federally with taxes, inheritance rights, and other things like SSI etc. So the feds HAVE to make a decision...I`m of course in favor of same-sex marriage
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Male 946
@ Madest & Gerry
I`m not saying it`s not a federal issue. It probably is. I`m saying it shouldn`t be. The federal government has too much say in our lives as it is and it does no one any good to give them a say in any more of our personal lives. That is NOT the purpose of our government.
Now, what will reality dictate? It will probably end up going to The Supreme Court to be decided like "Roe v Wade". . .and probably just as badly at that. Now before everyone gets up in arms, what I mean is this. Roe v Wade was written to include loopholes. So yes, you could get an abortion but the state could still intervene in certain instances, as an example. The court`s decision wasn`t definitive. The same thing will probably happen with gay marriage. The court will say it`s ok but will allow the states to intervene for various reasons. In other words, no definitive decision will be made.
I don`t know. Maybe i`m just being cynical.
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Female 2,674
Poor koala :( not only was he punched and his glasses flew off, but he also spilled his coffee D:
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Male 39,880

OMG! kangoala is an illegal alien! Quick! Someone grab him!
TAKE THAT!

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Male 3,894
This CAN`T be a local issue, because a marriage is something you take with you when you leave your state. If it`s valid in one state, you shouldn`t be prevented from moving to and living in another state where your marriage is suddenly illegal.
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Male 3,894
John Heilemann is in the right on this.
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Male 5,811
@5cats: Since when is polygamy *next* up here? That`s just slippery slope fear-mongering. In the latest polygamy case the judge upheld our country`s polygamy laws.
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Male 5,811
Sum of the majority of pages in this thread:

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Male 702
There`s a fairly pertinent issue that gets left out of these debates almost all the time, but affects tens of thousands of gay couples in this country. Immigration.
Without Federal recognition, an American citizen will never be able to sponsor their same-sex spouse into the country. My partner and I are living this predicament right now; "When I graduate what the drat are we gonna do, move to another country?"
Local government issue? Pffft. Drat that!
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Male 4,004
I should organize a coup, take over the country, sign some bills allowing civil freedoms nationwide, and pass a bill against anything like SOPA/PIPA/ETC and then return control to the previous guy.
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Male 4,004
"It`s ridiculous." -QFT

The USA has been a victim of ridicule for quite some time now. They are so afraid of being politically incorrect that they won`t make political decisions with an unbiased (non-religious) opinion.

Gay Marriage? Free Country - Go for it
Abortion? Free country - Go for it

If you REALLY don`t like gay marriage, ask yourself if you hate it more than you like Freedom? The founding principle of your country was freedom and liberty for all, not Freedom and Liberty for the majorities.
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Male 3,425
It genuinely shocks me that this is still an issue in America. Almost every developed country in the world allows people to live their lives without this sort of discrimination, without the state having a say in their personal affairs, yet the USA still argues about things that should have been sorted out 50 years ago. It`s ridiculous.
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Male 4,004
"Also, lol @ Gerry, I can`t believe we don`t see posts by you more often"

Gerry1of1 - 14510 Posts

No, 14,500 isn`t enough...lol.
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Male 4,004
The difference between an interracial marriage and a gay marriage is that one is two men, the other is a man and a woman.

Similarities: H8rs gonna hate.

The issue should be a federal issue for 10 minutes. Pass a bill permitting it nationwide, and the issue shall never be mentioned again. Land of Liberty my f**ing ass.
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Male 39,880

"Local issue" is a cowards way out.
The Federal Government grants specific rights, responsabilities, and tax rules to married couples, so the Federal Gov`ment has to take a stand on the issue, one way or another.

You cannot have a marriage difined one way in one state, and differantly in another. They tried that when Utah allowed polygamy and the Supreme Court said "NO", Federal Rules trump States in the marriage arena.
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Male 7,378
[quote]I agree with Michael Steele on one point. It is a local issue, not a federal one. The federal gov`t has too much involvemnent in our personal lives as it is, they don`t need anymore.[/quote] ------------
Yeah lets have marriage become void at the border of your state... It is indeed a federal issue that will ultimately be decided by the supreme court. No viable argument exists against equality.
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Male 7,774
Is it any wonder you Earth people never get an invite the Intelligent species annual dinner dance?
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Male 17,511
MrOrange: Yes we all bleed red, but one can tell another person`s color from across the block, you may not even recognize a gay person by talking with them for quite awhile.

Also gays have changed back to straight or decided to be bisexual, a black person has no choice in their skin color, Michael Jackson excluded of course.
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Male 2,419
did that black man just say it`s not the same becuase you can tell i am differenton the outside but with gay`s is something on the inside?
housenegro go read MLK, Malcom X, go to your roots before you shoot yourself in the foot!
Do we not bleed red?
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Male 946
I agree with Michael Steele on one point. It is a local issue, not a federal one. The federal gov`t has too much involvemnent in our personal lives as it is, they don`t need anymore.
As for gay marriage, why does it bother anyone if gay people want to get married? Marriage isn`t the sacred institution that everyone says it is. If it was, then a "Justice of the Peace" wouldn`t be allowed to conduct a ceremony. . .and in fact, the ceremony isn`t even neccesary. It`s just the signing of a marriage certificate that makes it legal.
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Female 836
Frankii

I`m sure there`s something written down somewhere as to why the different states have different laws... but what it boils down to is, this is a HUGE freakin` country and it`s made up of people who don`t all come from the same place... I know Great Britian used to be a lot more separated (and kinda is in some ways still) what with Scots, Irish, and British not exactly getting along splendedly every step of the way.

The only way to avoid constant civil war is to be flexible, thus, different laws.
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Male 15,259
@gerry oh shoot. Please don`t tell me Bruce Lee is gay too.

@squrlz I don`t think there is any evidence of a gay gene, or significant genetic predisposition, I think it is in all of us. Inside every straight person is a gay person thrusting to get out.

I think some people choose to acton their impulses, some people have never considered it and some repress their urges.

It`s right to recognise other people`s union, though, and specifically to grant due legal status.
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Male 792
Holy drat...there are 7 billion people on the planet, and we should care about the politics of 300 million...most of whom don`t give a poo about their own politics anyway?
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Female 437
Pretty sure it is comparable, a black man falls in love with a white woman and she reciprocates. They don`t choose who to fall in love with, why should they not be allowed to be married? Same with gay couples
Side note, I don`t really get why each state has different laws at all although maybe that`s just my English mentality
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Male 52
american discussions are always about the same poo

u need to grow the drat up
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Male 2,419
"pre-neptual"
Pre-neptual?
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Male 2,419
"Even 1% environmental influence means there is NO instinct."

Nice math... that means 99% instinct. Scarring a monkey to the point that it has no idea how to do anything besides eat and piss (hell, what`s this light stuff? or this WIND?) makes it impossible to derive any complex observations. It`s like saying "well obviously we`re all born paralyzed" if we strapped a baby to a bed, kept it alive without allowing it to use any muscles for 30 years and then tried to make it walk.
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Male 2,516
I`m pretty sure LillianDulci would also go for that Gerry. I would reformulate my test in terms of Chuck Norris but the results would be skewed because well... Chuck Norris: you do what he says.
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Male 1,736
WOW, this forum blew up. My two cents:

(1) Regarding whether homosexuality is a "choice," Squrlz4Sale summed up my thoughts nicely. Bravo. *clap* *clap*

(2) Regarding whether homosexual marriage is comparable to black/white marriage, yes and no. Yes in that homosexuals can choose to marry in a 2-person relationship while black/whites can choose to marry in a 2-person relationship. (animals can`t choose, and polygamists would mess up our 2-person system to an nth degree...where n is the number of people in the polygamist marriage) But no in that most black/white couples can procreate but most gay couples can`t procreate. However, in this day and age, with overpopulation and adoption, I don`t think procreation is as important as it used to be.
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Male 39,880

@ jendrian - No, nothing gay about Chuck Norris.
His carefully quaffed, not wind tossed hair, not his 70`s porn star mustach, nor his FABULOUS belt! Certainly not his jeans showing his manhood thrusting forward as if to burst forth.

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Male 2,516
I don`t know I don`t have a gay-dar; Gerry, is Chuck Norris gay?
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Male 15,259
Wait, Chuck Norris is gay?
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Male 2,516
@Squrlz4Sale: That`s what I believe too. That`s exactly what I think of human sexuality and what I was trying to explain.
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Male 6,227
Against my better judgment, I`ll weigh in here:

I think people are born with a genetic predisposition somewhere on a straight/gay scale. Let`s say 1 = 100% straight and 10 = 100% gay. For those who are a 5 or a 6, sexual orientation may be a choice or bisexuality may be an option. But for the majority of people, say 80%, it isn`t a choice.

On the other hand, we have the culture of the ancient Greeks, where homosexuality seems to have been the societal norm (read the Platonic dialogues, if you require evidence of this). This suggests that in the right cultural milieu, the scale can be skewed and even the 3s and 4s can be influenced toward a gay orientation or, in an opposite culture, even the 7s and 8s can be influenced toward a straight orientation.

It`s a complex subject. In my opinion, the only honest summation is that human sexual orientation is largely, but by no means totally, an inborn trait.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: You simply see what you want to see. You might see a Rubenesque painting and think, "That`s gross", to another they may see it as beautiful. That`s just the way art is.

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Male 2,516
well, I won`t insist on tagging anybody as a bigot; I`m sure CrakrJak is a perfectly reasonable person
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Male 2,516
Imagine if nobody discussed the opposite point? all arguments here would be pretty boring if we were all on the same boat

Also, lol @ Gerry, I can`t believe we don`t see posts by you more often
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Male 17,511
jendrian: I`ve not exhibited any animosity or intolerance of gays or lesbians. Just because people disagree with your opinion doesn`t make them bigots. Otherwise all of us are bigots.
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Male 234
@crakrjak The skinner study was in reference to 5cats, I was referring to the cave carving at you. Your first rebuttal was that it wasn`t a cave painting. Second there were two interpretations, acrobats or gay caveman. I don`t know of any acrobats that involves sticking a penis inside someone`s ass as you can clearly see in the carving. You simply ignored what the carving looked like.
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Male 39,880

CrakrJak a bigot? Nah, I don` think so.
Just because someone disagrees with you {us} doesn`t make them a bigot.
Stubornly holding to misguided notions despite evidence to the contrary is what makes a big.... oh wait. Never mind.




teasing C-man! You know I love you more than my personal lubricant!
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Male 2,516
@5Cats. I still don`t see how you would manage the current rights and obligations of a marriage if more than 2 people were involved, unless everybody had to review a document where it detailed exactly "which percentage" of the rights and obligations each party gets... I don`t know, polygamy just seems impractical for marriage. There`s other things they could do, and if someone comes up with a reasonable solution, then sure why not let them marry everybody on earth at the same time.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: I haven`t said anything about skinner`s studies.

Nor did I ignore your link to a highly ambiguous carving, that has multiple interpretations.
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Male 2,516
@CrakrJak:
Dictionary definition of bigotry: Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So bigot is the right term.
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Male 17,511
jendrian: `Bigot` doesn`t apply either, I don`t feel that I`m better then anyone else. Also, I don`t care what other people do in the privacy of their own house.

Jump to conclusions much ?
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Male 40,728
@jendrian: Polygamy is next in Canada. Followed by I don`t know what.
In Canada, pre-neptual agreements are worthless. Even a pre-nep arranged by two lawyers (husband and wife I mean) won`t hold up. It`s the "wild west" up here bro.
[quote]We`re all *socially awkward monkeys*! THAT explains everything![/quote]
Welcome to the club @squirlz, I`ve been thinking that for 40 years now...
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Male 234
@jenderian I was calm at first, right up until 5cats and crakrJak came up with an argument completely misinterpreting one of the most famous psychology studies for their own argument than preaching it to everyone to show how smart he is. Or ignoring evidence because it is a cave carving instead of a painting.
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Male 2,516
@grindinblade: dude, chill out. There`s no way to objectively discuss a subject when you get all heated up.
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Male 234
@5cats "whaaah" obviously you are a drating moron. What did you read a small passage of skinner on a blog somehwere? Yea I said skinner studies were never used to imply that sexuality or other behavior is learned. The studies showed that when the monkeys were denied any contact with others they would seek out contact instead of food, water, sex or anything. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

"you are so funny" and you are drating moron. how about you open a drating book before you make statements that make you look like an idiot.
"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
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Male 234
@5cats as I said before I have no idea where you studied psychology but your interpretation of the skinner box studies are so off base it`s not even funny. I have never heard of it as interpretation of being learned environment. It was total deprivation where the monkey`s would do anything for some feeling of comfort or companionship even it meant not eating.
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Male 40,728
I know @CrakrJak! "homophobic" is the WORST term ever! It is so overused!
I don`t "fear" gay people. I`m not likely to leave the room if a queer is present.
The left swings this dead horse like it was a Loiusville Slugger. Pathetic really...

I`ve written a complaint about @grindinblade`s comment. It`s disgusting really.
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Male 6,227
~reading one of Lillian`s posts, Squrlz has an epiphany~

OMIGOSH! We`re all *socially awkward monkeys*! THAT explains everything!
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Male 2,516
haha @sqirlz. Yup, it definitely shouldn`t be...

@CrakrJak: the correct term is "bigot" if I`m not mistaken, which includes all of what you said. How does other people having sex bother you? It`s not like they do it right next to you.

and @5Cats. In Canada there is a marked distinction. Thing is, if more than two people are allowed to join their lives, then they share all of those rights and responsibilities. Imagine a 3-person marriage where one of them falls ill and the remaining two partners have to decide the medical treatment, and they both have completely opposite views. Legally, they both would have the same right (unless pre-nup etc) on what to do. So with more than 2 people, marriage law becomes way way more complicated.

I`m not against polygamy, hump as many people as you want, it`s just that marriage is not practical for more than 2 people.
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Male 234
@5cats "whaaah" obviously you are a drating moron. What did you read a small passage of skinner on a blog somehwere? Yea I said skinner studies were never used to imply that sexuality or other behavior is learned. The studies showed that when the monkeys were denied any contact with others they would seek out contact instead of food, water, sex or anything. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

"you are so funny" and you are drating moron. how about you open a drating book before you make statements that make you look like an idiot.
"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: [quote]What happen, did your uncle touch you when you were a kid?[/quote]

Really ? Going to the gutter like that is a sure sign of hatred and fear, which demonstrates that you are the real `phobic` here.
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Male 40,728
@Squirlz, what are you? Homophobic? Why not find a nice BOY squirrel to mate with, eh?
lolz!
I joke! Really I do...
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: I`m not a `homophobe`. That is a term used to malign conservatives as being crazy and I for one believe that is a libel. Phobias are based on `fear`, I don`t fear anyone, including homosexuals.

Homo-averse would be the correct terminology, but liberals have decided to libel conservatives as being scared and hateful. Perhaps we conservatives should start using terms like Heterophobic and Conservaphobic, because it`s really evident you fear us.
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Male 40,728
[quote]did your uncle touch you when you were a kid?[/quote]
@Grindinblade you`re on report. That`s abuse pure and simple.
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Male 2,034
Is this what everyone`s doing tonight instead of B.A.N.?
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Male 6,227
Omigosh, I made it through 5 pages of comments before my brain started to hurt. Seriously, people, sex should *not* be this complicated.

~Squrlz spots a willing squirrelette on a nearby branch, he scampers over, and they start doing the nasty~
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Male 40,728
[quote]I have never heard of someone trying to connect them to sexuality[/quote]
WAAAH! HAhahahahaha! Oh you`re too funny!

[quote]The lawful union of ELEVEN adults by their own accord[/quote]
fify @jendrian! You do understand that there`s no "legal" or moral diference between two and eleven? eh?
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Male 234
@crakrjak yea I am very familiar with those paintings, doesn`t even compare. If the guys dick was an inch from the animals ass (like in the carving link) than I would call it beasteality they aren`t even close.
It doens`t even matter what evidence I show you (genetic tests, scientific research, or archaeological finds). You will never admit that you are wrong because of your own homophobic problems. What happen, did your uncle touch you when you were a kid? drat off you small minded bigoted prick.
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Male 234
@5cats as I said before I have no idea where you studied psychology but your interpretation of the skinner box studies are so off base it`s not even funny. I have never heard of it as interpretation of being learned environment. It was total deprivation where the monkey`s would do anything for some feeling of comfort or companionship even it meant not eating.
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Male 40,728
@LillianDulci: High marks for your rational thinking! You`ve struck on almost every criticism of Skinner! Seriously, I`m impressed!

The defenders of Skinner (which I count myself amoung) say that:
If it WERE "instinctive" then it wouldn`t matter HOW the monkey was raised!
This is a fundimantal issue. Instinct = environment doesn`t matter. Even 1% environmental influence means there is NO instinct.

If it were NOT applicable to human studies, then NONE of the animal trials would be either!
Animal trials are essential to all forms of human science, eh? You cannot have both.

In terms of the topic at hand, I still say: if "heterosexuality is learned, then so is homosexuality". If anyone wants to argue that hotero- is instinctive, have at it!
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Male 39,880

Crakr - I think polygamists existed before monogamists, didn`t they? Yeah, they had them in the old testament.

I can just imagine them sitting around griping "You can`t let these monogamists have what they want! It`ll ruin the sanctity of marriage for all of my sister wives!"
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Male 234
@crakrjak yea I am very familiar with those paintings, doesn`t even compare. If the guys dick was an inch from the animals ass (like in the carving link) than I would call it beasteality they aren`t even close.
It doens`t even matter what evidence I show you (genetic tests, scientific research, or archaeological finds). You will never admit that you are wrong because of your own homophobic problems. What happen, did your uncle touch you when you were a kid? drat off you small minded bigoted prick.
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Male 12,138
Yes, it`s entirely comparable, and at the heart of the issue is religious dogma. There are *parts* of the Bible, almost exclusively Old Testament, that are frankly abhorrent on issues of modern-day Human Rights and have steered/influenced modern law right up until today.

1. Women were seen as inferior to men in the OT. Result: only relatively recently have women been allowed to vote, and there are arguably still vast discrepancies in things such as equal pay. Etc.

2. Slavery is advocated in the OT. Result: only relatively recently have black minorities had the same rights as the rest of us. Etc.

3. Discrimination against gay people is advocated in the OT. Result: well, there isn`t a result yet, at least in most parts of America.

I`ve been saying this forever, folks. Gay people, your time of equal human rights will come, you`re just at the back of the queue, unfortunatlely.
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Male 3,445
Here we have an obvious expression of the real problem with modern conservatism. Conservatives are always on the wrong side of history when it comes to moral issues, all the while claiming that they are just. They were wrong about civil rights, they are wrong about this issue, and they will be viewed as bigots in the eyes of history.
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Male 2,516
@CrakrJak: How about this definition?

The lawful union of two adults by their own accord, which comes with the rights and obligations that the union comes with.

On the other hand, sure I think it`s a choice, but it`s a choice that comes from a much deeper understanding of one`s own nature. As in, why do you know you wouldn`t like to give a blow job? because you know yourself.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: Evidently you`ve never seen the paintings of ancient Minoans leaping over bulls or perhaps you`d interpret those images as bestiality.
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Male 234
@crakrjak, o sorry it wasn`t a cave painting it was an engraving (seriously that is the most bullpoo excuse i have ever heard even from you).
Number two if you look at the carving it is pretty clear what is going on. The fact that the debate is between caveman performing acrobatics or having sex is ridiculous, and is more people just trying to deny that homosexuality has been around forever. What purpose would there be to draw a penis if they were acrobats, especially one so close to the other guys ass.
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Male 4,999
I was going to jump back in but I see that Crakrjak is here along with 5Cats. No thanks.
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Male 17,511
jendrian: If we can`t define what `marriage` is, it opens the door for everyone else to redefine it as well. In fact, polygamists are already starting to do so.
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Male 234
@5cats I have no idea what psychology class you ever took but you are way over interpreting the skinner experiments. I have never heard of someone trying to connect them to sexuality nor even heard of such results observed. The skinner box was total sensory deprivation, monkeys raised in these boxes were unable to perform almost all tasks.

Also not sure what link you are talking about. The cave painting was listed as having multiple interpretations, as has gay sex in the animal kingdom although now it is recognized as an animal being gay.
Simply looking at it seems pretty clear to me that there are two guys having sex, I would find it pretty remarkable if caveman practiced acrobatics as the other interpretation claims.
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Male 40,728
CrakrJak: I actually know of two gay men, in love with each other, who dated two sisters (one got married to her, the other didn`t) and knocked them both up.
I MY definition, they weren`t "gay" but some other sort of -sexual.
They`d take vacations in Toronto where they`d cruise the "gay bathhouse scene" unbeknownst to the wife, lolz! It`s kinda like "Brokeback Mountain" which wasn`t actually about homosexuals, only weirder.
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Female 2,674
@jendrian - I`ve actually thought about that in the past, and honestly I think I`ll have to say no, I wouldn`t want to be with her. I`d hope we could be close friends, but I don`t think I`d want to be romantically involved with her. Unless she was open to a multi relationship with a guy or something, then maybe... xD idk I doubt that situation would ever arise so it`s kind of hard to consider.
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Male 17,511
jendrian: [quote]It`s not the simple act, it`s the choice that makes you homosexual[/quote]

That`s right, it`s a choice, thanks for confirming that fact.
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Male 2,516
@CrakrJak. So what`s your point? It`s still grounds for annulment/divorce if they so wish, and may even be sued by fraud by their partners because "they knew" the whole time. The right to marry someone shouldn`t be any different for anybody. Except pedophiles.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: First, that wasn`t even a painting. Second, even the experts disagree as to what it represents.

Strike Two.
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Female 2,674
5Cats, not knowing what to do with a member of the opposite species doesn`t really mean that heterosexuality is learned. Understanding sexual desire and what to do (in the monkey`s case, mating with the other monkey) may be learned, but that doesn`t mean the monkey wasn`t born heterosexual or anything.

If I`m understanding what you`re saying correctly, the monkey was kept from interacting with other monkeys at all. It seems more like the monkey doesn`t know how to interact in general, essentially becoming socially awkward monkey. It doesn`t know how to communicate its ideas or feelings. Of course it wouldn`t know how to have sex, it`s not even close to being a normal monkey. Actually it reminds me of those kids who were raised in isolation or in the wild They end up being severely developmentally behind because they lacked the essential experience of interacting with other humans, considering we are social beings.
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Male 2,516
@5Cats: well, I think it was pretty clear by now that: "humping same sex" means: "they chose to have sex with the same gender" ... It`s not the simple act, it`s the choice that makes you homosexual
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Male 2,516
@LillianDulci: Let me up the ante: say you find your perfect emotional mate, but it`s a woman. She`s everything you ever hoped except lacks a penis. Would you choose her then?
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Male 40,728
@GrindinBlade: Nice try, but actually LOOKING at your links helps eh?
@jendrian: humping same sex partners doesn`t neccessarily make you homosexual, remember? Bi- onmi- hyper- auto-
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Male 17,511
jendrian: Gay men have married women, had kids, never divorced and lived as straight, with perhaps some trysts on the side, and no one knew until after they died.

I`ve also seen lesbian women get jealous of guys that where talking to their girlfriends, why ?
because most people know that some women that act as lesbians can and do swing the other way on occasion. Even Gerry admitted, with the right motivation, he`d screw a chick.
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Female 2,674
Squrlz4Sale - lmao!!

"@Lillian, I think it does make you somewhat gay, by simple manner of choice. I could say I`m a little gay, even if 95% of the time I`ll choose girls, there`s that 5% where I`m gay. I didn`t forget about girls, I ran out of space haha. "

Well, the way I see it, I can`t say I`m gay or bi considering I wouldn`t actually want to date or be with a girl, even if I find some girls (such as Sunny...) to be really attractive. The only person available besides a disease ridden ugly guy, sure. But with the ample amount of men in this world, I don`t really wanna be with a girl o_O I`d rather have Sunny as a bff than a girlfriend :3
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Male 40,728
@LillianDulci: Since you asked nicely:
If you raise a monkey (dosn`t matter what kind) in a Skinner Box, it doesn`t "know" it`s a heterosexual.
Skinner Box: a box (obviously) with food, water and NO other stimulus. (depends on the experiment of course). No windows, no interaction with other creatures. Nothing.
A monkey raised in such a box, upon reaching adulthood, when presented with a member of the opposite sex, has NO IDEA what to do! Oh he may get an erection, but mating? naw! So it is learned, pure and simple.
Skinner used his Boxes to disprove dozens of other "instincts" over the years. Hundreds of people replicated his experiments with very similar results, making his studies one of the best peer-reviewed in history.
It`s far from "perfect" but remains to this day the best study of "human" insticnts (amoung other things) ever done.
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Male 234
@crakrjak homosexual cavepainting
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Male 234
@crakrjak so you wouldn`t consider someone transgender as gay? This is as close as possible that we could get since we can`t see fossils of caveman having sex.
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Male 234
@Crakrjak now you are making gigantic reach with that argument, and interpreting how future law would be interpreted. For one you don`t know that it would be considered fraud. If you want to marry a man by all means go ahead. This isn`t about giving gay people special rights to marry either sex. This is about giving all people the right to marry who they love and care about.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: From your link, "We believe this is one of the earliest cases of what could be described as a `transsexual` or `third gender grave` in the Czech Republic.

someone with a sexual identity confusion is not necessarily `gay`.

Swing and a miss.
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Male 2,516
@CrakrJak: wtf are you talking about, if a a homosexual marries a woman isn`t that grounds for annulment? I believe it is...
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Male 2,516
@Lili: all but me have no preference. I`m still not fully ambidextrous but some day I will be...
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Male 2,516
yeah... prehistorical homosexuality is more of a fact. Think of it this way: if animals hump homosexually, then so did we before we made complicated social structures.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: Yes it is a special right, because it let`s homosexuals marry both men and women. Straights would never be allowed to do that, in fact if two straight men married one another it would be considered a crime, fraud.
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Female 2,674
jendrian, do any of the 3 have a preferred hand still? One that`s slightly easier or more comfortable to use? If so, they`re still left/right handed and not ambidextrous. You can technically learn to write (and etc) with your wrong hand, but until you literally have no preference, I really can`t see how you can call yourself completely ambidextrous.
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Male 234
@crakrjak never seen a gay cavepainting? How about the remains of a gay caveman
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Male 2,516
@LillianDulci. I know exactly 3: my born-left-handed brother, who is a graphic designer and uses both hands with equal dexterity.

My 4th grade teacher who broke her right arm and became fully ambidextrous during the recovery period, with the same dexterity (although oddly enough different hand script) on both hands.

And me to some extent, born right-handed, I can use my left hand with some "high" degree of dexterity (i use it to pencil draw)
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Male 6,227
"...Maybe to continue the species if we were the only people left on earth, but not for simply being stranded on an island."

~Squrlz pumps fist in air~ YESSS! I have a shot!
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Male 2,988
great comparison and put it in the home court, straight to the heart of the black man that is in the room discrimination against gays and cant seem to handle similar treatment towards himself, even when using his own argument.
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Female 2,674
@5Cats Actually only an hour ago I was arguing with someone on a kpop board about how she`s sexy (the other girl said she`s not sexy :| also I was procrastinating on my programming assignment :/) so trust me, I know :P

I`m not arguing for or against it being learned in that reply though (homosexuality and heterosexuality aren`t learned imo and you haven`t proven how they`re learned, you`ve only asserted it and told me to look it up myself :|), so idk why you brought it up. I`m just saying, if I had the choice between Sunny and some disease ridden ugly guy, I`d go for Sunny. xD
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Male 17,511
Steelgrid: I don`t hate or promote hate against homosexuals, I`ve worked with them and have never had a problem with them or gave them any problems.

As far as your assertion that homosexuality predates `ghost stories`, I`ve yet to see any cave paintings of two guys, or two women, having sex with one another.
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Male 234
@5cats my point is that as we consider heart disease or cancer risk genetic so is being gay. It is found more in that population and laboratory manipulation in animals shows that scientists can change an animals sexuality.
Also you are quoting me way out of context. I said that genetics doesn`t explain everything. JUST LIKE EVERY dratING THING IN MEDICINE. I am a medical student, and I know the impact of genetics and environment far more than you could obviously comprehend. Saying I fail because it`s "a contributing factor" shows how little you really know".
@CrackrJak "curable genetic disease" wow homophobic much? I never said it was a disease, it is a genetic trait. Would you consider having brown hair or blue eyes a disease?
And since would giving gays the right to marry be "a special right not given to heterosexuals". We can already get married, not letting someone that is gay is giving straight people special rights.
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Male 2,516
@Lillian, I think it does make you somewhat gay, by simple manner of choice. I could say I`m a little gay, even if 95% of the time I`ll choose girls, there`s that 5% where I`m gay. I didn`t forget about girls, I ran out of space haha.

@ledzeppeloyd, there hasn`t been a single homophobic comment in the thread for a while

@markust123, well you`re too different people, experienced the same environment with different genetic markups. My hypothesis (and it`s worth stressing it`s nothing more than that) is that the combination of how you experienced your environment with the gene pool you were handed is what defined your sexual preference.

@CrakrJak. Just close your eyes and think it`s a chick that`s letting you do anal. But that`s just sex, if you somehow chose between a man and a woman and chose the man, there`s some gay in you.
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Male 40,728
WOAH! @LillianDulci:


She`s smokin hawt!
And Korean too! (see my previous posts about sexual fetishes)
But nothing you say argues against homosexuality being learned, eh?
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Male 6,227
7 pages of comments?! Wow, this link blew up, didn`t it. Looks like I`ve got some reading to catch up on....
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Male 2,700
Ahhh Crackr, homosexuality has been around longer than your ghost stories.

How does it feel to promote hate in the name of your god, you fu.cking hypocrite
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Female 2,674
"@Gerry: Left handed who uses his/her right hand with the same ability ceases to be left handed and becomes ambidextrous ..."

How many left handed people do you know who can use their left and right hand equally? My mom was from a time where they tried to cure people of being left handed. She was forced to write with her right hand and use products made for right handed people. Now, she can do a lot more with her right hand than I can do with my left hand, but she`s not completely ambidextrous at all. She was taught to use her right hand so she can use it to an extent, but it`s still far more comfortable for her to use her left hand and she still has far more control with her left hand.
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Male 17,511
grindinblade: [quote]scientists were able to alter the sexual preference of lab rats by altering a single gene.[/quote]

So what you`re saying is that homosexuality is a curable genetic disease, right ? If not then it`s a environmentally influenced choice.

Either way, it doesn`t mean they should be given special rights above those of heterosexuals.

Gerry: [quote]given enough viagra and a mental picure of Ryan Reynolds I could bone a chick.[/quote]

There isn`t enough viagra or womens titty pics in the world, that would convince me to suck a dick or drive the hershey highway.
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Male 4,999
My brother and I were raised exactly the same in a very loving Beaver Cleaver family. Nothing bad or traumatic happened to either of us during our childhood. I am gay. He is not. It is how I was born. I was attracted to Leif Garret and Sean Cassidy when I was nine - well before I knew what sex was. I had zero attraction to Farah Faucet. I tried dating girls while growing up but there just wasn`t the sexual or emotional connection. The only reason bigots still argue that it is a choice is because all their arguments against equality fail if they tell the truth.
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Male 2,384
if you hate gay people, tell me thisdoesnt turn you on
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Female 2,674
I`m trying to catch up on this since my internet was down and whatnot but I want to respond to jendrian`s question about the most attractive girl vs the ugliest guy imaginable.

First, I find it really amusing that you completely disregarded that girls exist on this site, but that`s okay. :P

Second, if the girl could be SNSD`s Sunny, I`d go for her in a heartbeat over super ugly guy xD However, I don`t think that makes me a little gay or anything. Finding a few girls way more appealing than the ugliest guy doesn`t really make me gay. I`d still choose an average looking guy or even a slightly unattractive guy over a girl, even if she`s Sunny. Plus my super ugly guy looks disease ridden and I don`t want to touch him. Maybe to continue the species if we were the only people left on earth, but not for simply being stranded on an island.
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Male 40,728
@Regamon: Mutual, exclusive, sexual & emotional attraction. How can I BE any clearer? The sex acts AND the emotional attachment MUST be mutual for it to be "homosexuality".

@jendrian Thanks for the back-up! I sometimes wonder if I`m losing my mind! I SAY "xyz" and people tell me "NO! zxy is wrong!" Wait, what? ZOMG!

[quote]Gene Xq28 is found in gay males at a higher rate than in heterosexual males[/quote]
So? _W_ It`s a contributing factor, NOT a definition. Sorry, you fail.
Saying that "the genetics does not explain" is in fact agreeing with me, thx dude!
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Male 2,516
@grindinblade. Well sure, nature vs nurture, there`s still debate on which one is more important but nobody is debating that they both play a role. 5Cats did say that.
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Male 234
5cats you are wrong that heterosexuality is learned, it has to do with prenatal environment. If the mother`s body recognizes the male fetus as foreign it will attempt to feminize it with hormones. The more boys a woman has the higher chances there is for the next boy to be gay. Environment plays just a big a role (if not bigger) in development/health in medicine as genetics, any denial of that shows a clear lack of understanding of genetics.

There is also genetic linkage to being gay. Gene Xq28 is found in gay males at a higher rate than in heterosexual males. Further scientists were able to alter the sexual preference of lab rats by altering a single gene.
The genetics doesn`t explain homosexuality entirely (nor does it explain most conditions in medicine entirely), but it does play a major role as does the environment.
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Male 2,516
@Reganom: let it go man, if you want to take that quote word by word, then yes that`s exactly what it says, but that`s not what it was meant to say, and the meaning has been explained over and over.
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Male 505
5cats:

You`ve defined two different meanings for homosexuality. Which one are you using for the arguments?

The one that homosexuality is about who you have sex with and have mutual sexual attraction with.

Or

The one that is about who you have sex with.
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Male 2,516
lol @Gerry
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Male 40,728
[quote] sure some people are unable to learn another language too[/quote]
That`d be me! lolz! Hopeless it`s true.
But it means that IF it were genetic I WOULD be able to learn another language easily. See? So learning languages may be "influenced" by DNA, but it`s not "controled" by it. Also the brain damage is a contributing factor...
[quote]That`s called being a republican.[/quote]
Low blow @Gerry1! Oh wait, was that a double entandre... dammit!
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Male 40,728
[quote]If the word "homosexual" means something else to anybody that`s personal[/quote]
BING BING BING!
Well done @jendrian!

If we`re trying to discuss something, it IS VERY important we agree on what the words mean!
I`ve defined MY meanings clearly.
Y`all can agree with my definition or not, but it`s what I use to make myself clear.
@Scuziod, what do YOU mean when you say "homosexual" eh? It`s not an attack, it`s a serious question. Someone who has "gay sex" once in their lifetime? Someone who thinks Prince is downright sexxy? idk, what do you mean when you use that term?
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Male 39,880

5Cats [quote]"If a man has sex with a man, but "feels" bad about it, is it homosexuality?" [/quote]
That`s called being a republican.
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Male 2,516
@5Cats: about the ambidextrous comment; sure some people are unable to learn another language too. What of it? doesn`t mean the behaviour is impossible or even hard to learn.
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Male 2,516
@I-IS-BORED; well yeah man but I explained several times after what it was that I meant by that quote and you just refused to accept it and directly insulted me several times in the process. Therefore I struck back. No hard feelings really you often make funny comments that I enjoy.
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Male 40,728
[quote]LBGT is 100% a state of mind. They ARE feelings.....[/quote]
Oh I DO get it @Scuziod. How exactly are "feelings" related to our DNA? My point is that learned things like "feelings" are NOT the sole result of DNA. That DNA may be involved is possible, but unlike skin colour, it`s NOT hard-wired.
[quote]Marriage between ELEVEN consenting adults shouldn`t be a big deal.[/quote]
fify @El Mustache! lolz!
@jendrian: When I was in high school, the basketball team bound their "right" arms (which in 2 cases was their left arm) in a sling and used their other arm in an effort to become more ambidexterous. For most of the 15 this was no problem, but 2 boys were unable to survive even 1 day! Headaches and vomiting were the result of being forced to use the "wrong" hand all the time!
Not "scientific" but a first-hand example of what I`m saying. SOME people can "learn" it it`s true, but others? No way.
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Male 2,516
well Scuzoid, excuse me for telling you that in certain topological spaces, 2+2 = 5 most certainly. But that`s besides the point.

The point is that as I mentioned earlier, we define homosexual behaviour as sexual attraction to the same gender, and not as an emotional state. If you`re going to exclude sexuality from homosexual behaviour, then every guy who`s ever had a best buddy was gay.

And yes, you do have to make yourself clear. How was that an attack to anyone`s intelligence? It`s just a point of view. If the word "homosexual" means something else to anybody that`s personal; all I was saying was what homosexual means to me. If anyone felt insulted by that I thoroughly apologize for the mistake, but that wasn`t what I was trying to communicate.
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Male 2,419
"I`m only insulting I-IS-BORED`s intelligence because he kept bringing on the exact same quote. Other than that I think I did pretty objective statements."

I had to bring up the same quote because you kept refusing to resolve your saying it`s about sexual acts but that it`s not about sexual acts, cognitive dissonance is so strong it`s bad for your physical health.
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Male 1,268
@Jen

5cats can be the nicest person in the world. Mother Teresa for all I care. But when he says 2+2=5 (Or gays are only gay when they`re having gay sex. Or god exists.) that is, if nothing else, an attack on intelligence and most, especially on the internet, will seek to correct that.
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Male 40,728
[quote]What`s so impossible to believe about that?[/quote]
Aha! @jendrian it is not I who gets offended, it is those who believe that homosexuality is genetic! If someone has gay sex for years, who cares? That person may or may not be a homosexual, only time will tell.

I hear you @Gerry1, but "feelings" are awfully hard to measure in a scientific way, eh? If a man has sex with a man, but "feels" bad about it, is it homosexuality? idk. That`s why I exclude things like that and only rate by clearly defined terms.
Mutual.
Exclusive.
See? Easy to define and measure.
You are TOTALLY CORRECT in saying it has "nothing to do with sex" I 100% agree! The act of sex is (very nearly) unimportant. It is behaviour over an extended time that counts.

Also, some idiot keeps equating sex with rape. Pleeze! Troll be gone!
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Male 2,516
@5Cats, tell that to my born-left-handed brother, who by age 16 decided to take on the task of becoming ambidextrous just because, or to my 4th grade teacher, who broke her right arm and learned to become ambidextrous to continue teaching during recovery.

Or to me, I`m right handed, and I can draw kick-butt things with my left hand
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Male 1,625
Marriage between two consenting adults shouldn`t be a big deal.
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Male 1,268
"Now you`re talking about "feelings" as if they were "facts""

It seems I need to make myself clear to YOU, not the other way around. From the beginning, ALL of my argument, and the vast majority of the argument`s this USN Lt will share, or any LBGT, feelings ARE fact. LBGT is 100% a state of mind. They ARE feelings.....

How do you not get this?
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Male 2,516
@Scuzoid. You`ll have to elaborate; I`m an atheist, I didn`t understand how that relates to an attack.

I`m only insulting I-IS-BORED`s intelligence because he kept bringing on the exact same quote. Other than that I think I did pretty objective statements.
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Male 2,516
well see Gerry, I believe that the "sexual" part in "homosexual" refers to sexual preference, not as much to do with love.

If we go for that then we`re all more homosexual than I thought, as anyone with brothers and sisters has formed a love-like bond with them and pertains to the same family. So forgive me if I tend to make the association of "homosexual" with sexual activity.

But I agree with you, if you wish you can emotionally connect more with a man, you`re gay. Although I don`t agree with the sentence that it`s an motionless fact that such will always be the case.
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Male 1,268
"I don`t see which part of this is an attack"

I believe in god. Queue the atheist. Now do you see which part of this is an attack? It`s an attack on intelligence if nothing else.
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Male 1,625
What is this, the 50`s?!
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Male 40,728
@Gerry1: OH! My owl! NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! (lolz!)

Actually @jendrian, ambidexterousness CANNOT be learned. Just fyi... Oh sure SOME people can learn to use their "other hand" well, but many simply cannot. It causes damage in their brains to try, I kid you not!
[quote]The gay man who has a child with a straight woman can easily feel just as imprisoned by societal expectations and demands as any man in prison.[/quote]
Now you`re talking about "feelings" as if they were "facts" @Scuziod. I do understand what you`re saying, but I think it`s incorrect. Physical barriers > mental barriers.
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Male 2,516
yeah I feel you 5Cats, you were just trying to make an easy to understand point and some people got outraged. I don`t see which part of this is an attack, I`m not saying you guys are choosing to be gay (and much less that it`s in any way right or wrong). By all means, hump whatever you want.

All we`re saying is that in our own [twisted if you want] definition, you are capable of being straight and gay at different periods of your life. Why not? What`s so impossible to believe about that?
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Male 1,268
"This is my point!"

It was clear immediately that was your point. What isn`t clear is a means of convincing you otherwise. Left hands and prison come close to getting through your thick skull, but fall just short it seems.
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Male 39,880

Y`all got me sidetracked with your dirty talk about sex.

Being gay has nothing to do with sex. Any straight guy can have gay sex {summer camp, prison, the navy} and still be striaght. Becausge being gay is about who you love, not who you bang. It`s who you are attracted to to build a life with...together. THAT bond is what makes you gay or straight.

Yeah, given enough viagra and a mental picure of Ryan Reynolds I could bone a chick, but I`d still want to make a life, build a home, and be married to the man I am with.

An no amount of pole-smoking would make Chuck Norris gay. {I know someone who smoked it so I know this for a fact.}
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Male 2,419
"No he`s NOT gay if he`s engaging in mutually agreed upon sex with a female."

Engaging in mutual sex says nothing about romantic feelings, being attracted to the other person physically, or even enjoying the experience. It fails at defining the sexuality of the participants on every level.
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Male 40,728
[quote]@Gerry: Left handed who uses his/her right hand with the same ability ceases to be left handed and becomes ambidextrous ...[/quote]
See? @jendrian gets it!
[quote]There are certain things people feel they have to do in life to get by[/quote]
So... @Scuzoid agrees with me? Gee that`s great!
[quote]The gay man is still gay no matter what he`s doing with his penis[/quote]
Um, I guess not. No he`s NOT gay if he`s engaging in mutually agreed upon sex with a female. Period. It`s something else! Bi-sexuality, hyper-sexuality, omni-sexuality, mono-sexuality. There`s LOTS of things out there beyond homo- and hetero- eh? This is my point!
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Male 1,268
"The element of "exclusivity" is missing if there are no females available."

Now I`m certain you have zero experience in any sort of real world relationship. In the REAL world, past AND present, the option of choosing a same sex partner has FREQUENTLY been "missing" without the need of prison bars. The gay man who has a child with a straight woman can easily feel just as imprisoned by societal expectations and demands as any man in prison.
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
He wasn`t straight then, he was lying to himself which is why he couldn`t make the marriage work. It`s a REALLY common thing for gay men in circles that don`t accept gays to do. Possibly he was even taught that being gay was wrong so he was trying to "fix" himself. That doesn`t make him straight, that makes him in a state of cognitive dissonance.
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Male 2,516
I don`t know; I don`t think anybody is wholly sexually dependant their whole lives. Just like one can learn to be ambidextrous, one can learn sexual behaviours too as pointed out before.

But since we both have different definitions of "straight" and "gay", we`ll never reach an agreement on the nature of sexuality
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Male 2,419
@jendrian
having sex does not mean a gay man wants to, there have literally been CENTURIES of gay men lying and having families with women simply for public image
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Male 39,880

@ jendrian, the sentance said that if you`re having straight sex you are straight at that moment. Following that to it`s logical course, if you engaged in any gay sex you must have been gay at the time.

Besides, why pick on me.... go pick on 5cats. Anyone with an owl deserves to be picked on.

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Male 2,516
@I-IS-BORED: man, you`re really militant about interpreting quotes your way.

yeah, they`re having heterosexual sex because they want to have it, they`re attracted to each other at least then, and therefore they`re straight at that time
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Male 40,728
[quote]Left handed is always left handed even if you force him to use the right hand.[/quote]
EXACTLY!
I knew there was a reason I respect you @Gerry1~
!
Left handedness is one of my "pet peeves". I mean that I`m shocked that people around the world try to "cure" left-handedness like it was something you have a choice over. Being left-handed IS in your DNA.
@Gerry what I`m saying is that your husband wasn`t a "homosexual" before, even if he is one now. That is a choice, eh?

I refer you to the movie "The Shawshank Redemption"
"The sisters have taken a liking to you..."
"Would it help if I mentioned I`m not gay?"
"Neither are they!"
Or soemthing like that. The element of "exclusivity" is missing if there are no females available. Those prison rapists were not gay, neither were their victem(s).
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Male 1,268
The gay man is still gay no matter what he`s doing with his penis. As is the straight man. As is the victorian lesbian. As is the plastered college co-ed with a video cam in her face.
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Male 2,419
@jendrian
they`re not choosing to be gay and chances are they aren`t gay, they just found a hole something fits in and put a wig on the other end
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Male 505
5cats:

Just in case you haven`t heard of it yet.
Ol` Blue

Also you do realise that you can get erections without being sexually attracted to someone, right?

Or even by thinking about something else...
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Male 2,516
and the island thing? well that`s just what happens in prison. They have no other choice so they choose to be gay, at least for that time.
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Male 2,419
"I agree that if you`re having
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!heterosexual sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you`re heterosexual at least at that time."
there, is the part that talks about the ACT obvious enough to you now??
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Male 2,516
@I-IS-BORED and Gerry

I think you`re just reading what you want to read. That quote you put on doesn`t talk at all about the sexual act, it talks about the sexual preference at the moment, which does define whether you are homosexual or not.

If people in prison are having homosexual sex, then they are expressing preference for it (unless it`s rape... ), so... yeah, at that moment they are gay.
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Male 2,419
@jendrian
we straight guys would befriend whichever was less of a douche if human contact was necessary but we would still be straight, it really doesn`t matter to me how attractive a man is, he`s a man. No part of survival requires I have sex with one or the other.
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Male 1,268
"Marriage doesn`t mean mutual sexual attraction."

Again, I contest the idea 5cats has ever been held responsible for anything beyond his personal hygiene.

The simple fact of the matter is homosexuality is as much a state of mind as heterosexuality. As a heterosexual, I do not suddenly find Brad Pitt dreamy simply because I`m serving a 20 to life sentence in a federal prison. I AM having sex with men, but I am neither in love with these men nor am I attracted to their hairy arseholes. It`s a means to an end, just as marrying your high school "girlfriend" and starting a family with her is the only way a gay man gains any sort of independence from his overbearing, protestant, gay bashing father.

There are certain things people feel they have to do in life to get by.
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Male 2,516
@Gerry: Left handed who uses his/her right hand with the same ability ceases to be left handed and becomes ambidextrous ...
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Male 2,419
5Cats how can you not understand people don`t require sexual attraction to perform. I`m going to assume you don`t find your hand sexually attractive, yet that clearly works for you.
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Male 2,516
I don`t think you guys are thinking about the problem hard enough, you straight guys seriously wouldn`t go for a guy you find beautiful if he was your last chance at sex ever? Hell, he`ll even let you be on top cuz he`s so perfect haha
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Male 40,728
@Reganom: making a baby does require some sort of "mutual sexual attraction" unless a turkey baster is involved.
I remain internally consistant.
At least according to this... (don`t watch the whole thing, it`ll melt your brainz!)
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Male 2,419
and at the same time you specifically say you DO care, pick one or the other, either

"it`s a person who wants to have sex with members of his gender. Nothing more. It doesn`t depend on whether the act has happened or what not."

"I agree that if you`re having heterosexual sex you`re heterosexual at least at that time."

All I`m trying to do is get you to settle some of this cognitive dissonance.
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Male 39,880

@ [quote]was having sex with a woman it`s because he wanted to, so at the moment he was straight [/quote]and other comments like that...

If slipping it in a vagina makes you straight, then every man who`s been to prison was gay for 5 - 15 years. ... NOT. Sometimes you do things contrary to your nature, like when you give in to societal pressure to be a certain way when you know you`re not.

Left handed is always left handed even if you force him to use the right hand.
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Male 2,516
@5Cats, be honest man, you`d bang a guy if it meant human interaction
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Male 505
Jendrian:

I don`t think I would want to have sex with either of them. My polar opposite woman will most likley be disgusting, amorphous and generally down right repellant. Yet I still wouldn`t want to have sex with the man.

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Male 2,516
@I-IS-BORED: Learn to read, I specifically say I do not care about the act itself
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Male 2,419
5Cats must be one of those priests that touches little boys...
"It`s not mutual so it can`t be gay."
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Male 40,728
@jendrian: Sorry, even if Steve McQueen (just to continue the example) and I were stranded on an island, I wouldn`t have sex qith him. Nor would I have sex with Rosanne Barr! Eeeew! Ever! Gross!

So having sex with the same gender does not make you "gay". It`s exclusivity and mutuality that do that. And those things are learned.
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Male 2,419
@jendrian
flip flip floppin all over the place? what you`re responding to has quoted what you said just prior to that...
"I agree that if you`re having heterosexual sex you`re heterosexual at least at that time."
rape is still a sexual act
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Male 2,516
@I-IS-BORED

Well the rapist is straight, the lesbian remains a lesbian. My definition of gay doesn`t depend on sexual activity, but on sexual preference.
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Male 2,419
@Reganom
5Cats old age is getting to him, he thinks having sex with somebody is a difficult task requiring great amounts of attraction to achieve an erection.
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Male 2,516
so who do you choose? you see where this is going.

If you`re gay, think of a horrible man and your beautiful woman, who do you choose?
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Male 505
5cats:

Consistent? I don`t see consistency between the two quotes.

The first quote you are saying that sexual activity defines your sexual orientation.

In the second quote you are saying that you have to have mutual sexual attraction and sexual activity.

Marriage doesn`t mean mutual sexual attraction.
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Male 2,516
why are people trying to complicate the definition of gay? it`s a person who wants to have sex with members of his gender. Nothing more. It doesn`t depend on whether the act has happened or what not.

If Gerry`s first husband was having sex with a woman it`s because he wanted to, so at the moment he was straight, and at some point he either turned gay or realized vaginas smell bad.

Let me pose a question for the sexually active people here:
Think of the man you find the epitome of masculinity or the model of manliness. It doesn`t matter if it`s a fictional character.
Think also of the woman who would best represent what a beautiful and perfect woman would be.
Finally, think of the polar opposite of these two fantastic members of humanity.

Let`s assume now that you`re a straight man stranded in an island with the man you thought was perfect, and the woman you thought was the most awful example of a woman. It`s been a while and you`re really horny,
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Male 40,728
@Reganom, I don`t understand what you`re saying. Are you complimenting me for being internally consistant?
@jendrian: I do that from time to time :-)
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Male 2,419
A new challenger appears!

"I agree that if you`re having heterosexual sex you`re heterosexual at least at that time."

apparently if a lesbian is raped by a man she`s temporarily straight...
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Male 2,419
"Mutual sexual attraction and activity with the same gender = homosexuality."

According to 5Cats if a man rapes a man, the rapist is totally not gay since it`s not mutual.
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Male 505
5cats:

[quote]Your husband was not a homosexual while he was married to, and having sex with, a female[/quote]

[quote]Mutual sexual attraction and activity with the same gender = homosexuality. [/quote]

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Male 2,516
haha wow this thread got way out of control with 5Cats.

My 2 cents [although nobody asked me]: I personally don`t care what other people are having sex with, and I agree that if you`re having heterosexual sex you`re heterosexual at least at that time.

I also think that "being gay" is a little bit more complicated than being born with a gay gene or that your environment turned you gay; that being said, aren`t we all gay to some extent?

Boys like boys, girls like boys and girls like girls. You know what that tells me? Sex is great, however it comes. The only people concerned with other people`s boning just aren`t having good enough sex themselves.
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
First you say a gay man having sex with a woman at some point means he must be straight/bi, then you say a man having sex with a man doesn`t make him gay. Make up your mind!
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Male 40,728
On a serious note @Gerry1, I do respect you and all.
Your husband was not a homosexual while he was married to, and having sex with, a female. He may be one now, idk! But by definition this is true.
People play fast and loose with what "homosexuality" is, but not me! Homo- is NOT "I think Steeve McQueen is handsom" makes me gay! Nor is it "I have sex with men, women, plants & etc".
If we`re trying to have a serious discussion on the topic, then useing proper language is important. If I say "xyz" it`s important to know I don`t mean "zxy" right?
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Male 253
Wait a minute, so, now I`m not allowed to choose to do dudes?
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
That image does summarize your ability to construct an argument very well. Best thing you`ve accomplished all night.
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Male 914
I agree with the white guy. The analogy was perfectly acceptable. If Michael Steele thinks that sex-based marriage laws should be made at the state level while race-based laws should be made at the federal level, he should have admitted he felt that way and then gone on to defend his position.
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Male 40,728
Oh YEAH @Gerry1?



Tired of your trolling @I-IS-BORED, good night and goodbye.
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Male 2,419
Gerry he rendered his own argument invalid, disease doesn`t even mean "prevents the passing on of DNA" or any paraphrased version of that...
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Male 39,880

5Cats [quote]"IF being gay were genetic, it would count as a disease since it prevents the reproduction of your DNA. Please note the I DO NOT believe it`s a disease in any way, I believe it`s a choice, m-kay?" [/quote]

My first husband had a kid, so his DNA did pass on. But his marriage failed because no matter how hard he tried to CHOOSE to be straight, he was not. He was born gay.

Here is a picture of a drunk armadillo, which renders your arguement invalid!


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Male 2,419
@5Cats
Except that it isn`t absolutely wrong, a quick search on the internet will tell you what most people know about migration. Most of it is genetic, some of it is learned such as avoiding some pooty spot because it was bad last year.
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Male 40,728
[quote] A bird kept isolated from any source it could learn from will still know to migrate.[/quote]
BZZZZT! Absolutely wrong!
I can`t recall the movie all about leading geese south with an ultralite aircraft, but it`s 100% learned.
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Male 2,419
Oh right, I forgot we`re talking to the person that tried to post this as evidence that George W Bush released his birth certificate before running. Obviously it`s right since the bottom left says "Certified fake" and it says he was born in Mombasa...
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Male 2,419
"So sorry @markust123, but you`re just too easy. No more abuse for you! You like it a liiiitle TOO much."

In english:
"I can`t manage to say anything properly so I give up. Also I fail so much at humour that this is the best poo I can put together."

I pity anybody you attempt to tell a joke to as their entire day must be ruined.
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Male 1,249
Just look back long term and you will see liberal ways prevailing over time. One day we will all realize we are equal and the hate and suffering can finally stop.
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Male 40,728
So sorry @markust123, but you`re just too easy. No more abuse for you! You like it a liiiitle TOO much.
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
You watched ONE video and suddenly you`re an expert that most experts disagree with? A bird kept isolated from any source it could learn from will still know to migrate. They aren`t learning by telepathy.
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Male 4,999
You should write a book on being a troll 5Cats. You could call it Under the Bridge but in your Head.
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Male 40,728
Oh, that`s right @I-IS-BORED, I just said ALL animals learn to migrate! NOT!
I just gave butterflys (intergenerational migration) as an example! You fail.
Troll.
If you haven`t read how geese learn to migrate by now, then you`re a sad sack and unworthy of further comment. Didn`t you SEE the movie where they taught the geese to migrate? Are you living in a bubble?
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
Really? You`re gonna claim all animals LEARN migration? How about all the ones that take several generations to go each way?

Even better, I`ll give you an argument on your level of ignorance. Just like the chicken/egg situation, which came first? The animal learning or the animal teaching it? Well then where did the teacher learn? Where did that teacher learn? Where did THAT teacher learn? Oh pooe, guess that doesn`t work.
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Male 40,728
@I-IS-BORED no, people have a FEW instincts, it`s true. Animals have a lot more of course, since some, like butterflys, aren`t even capable of "learning" eh?

But geese? Do they migrate by "instinct"? NOPE! It`s learned.

So what particular "human instinct" do you think we have? Homosexuality perhaps? lolz!
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Male 2,419
"Well thank you NOT very much!"

Gud sentence you makes!
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Male 40,728
@markust123: So, you admit to hypocricy?

You`re trying to `help` people, that`s admirable. But you`ve `given up` on me. Well thank you NOT very much! Some resolve you`ve got! Some dedication to your cause! Am I not worthy of your love as much as the next person?

(let me know if this kinky BDSM gets you off, eh?)
(ps: BDSM is learned too...)

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Male 2,419
If you think people don`t have instincts holy poo you need to learn some drating biology before you try to make any claim about sexuality, psychology, sociology, genetic predispositions, etc etc.
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Male 105
Im a christian. I am fine with gay poeple. I am not fine with what they do but thats what THEY do, I would like for there to be no homosexuality but as the world continues, so will homosexuality.
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
that doesn`t even make sense unless that`s your admission to being a troll
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Male 40,728
@I-IS-BORED:



I see you "swallow" also...

BTW: Animals have TONS of insticts, DUH! It`s we humans that only have a handful.
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Male 4,999
@5Cats "do you get your sexual jollies from being abused over the internet? Just wondering..."

So you admit that you are being abusive on purpose?

I comment on the gay posts because if I can get through to even one person and get them to change their stance so that they become loving and tolerant it would make me feel good. It would make the world that much better. I gave up on you long ago. You are just here to be mean and fight with people.
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Male 40,728
@Scuzoid: Personal attacks aside: (Idiot: I`ve met TONS of gay folks, who hasn`t?)
So you`re saying that `homo`sexuals CAN engage in hetero behaviour? That sounds like "choice" to me...

When 14 year-olds were legal in Canada, I didn`t go banging them. The same applies to gays, it`s identical. I "chose" to maintain my morality, and no force on earth could make me change. If (and only if) homosexuality were genetic, they`d have the same stedfast resolve.
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Male 2,419
Here`s 5Cats trying to make an argument
"Mutual sexual attraction and activity with the same gender = homosexuality.
NOTE: It has to be "mutual" just because I like banging @I-IS-BORED up the anus doesn`t make ME a homosexual!!! Plus I`m not attracted to him, he`s just... convenient!"

Somewhere in his fantasy world that made sense.
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Male 835
Oooo the post is fertile grounds for troll-farming.
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
Where do you find the time in all your posting to go out and teach all the animals heterosexuality?
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Male 40,728
Thx @Smagboy1! In Canada it`s legal for gays to marry, and that`s fine with me! It used to be legal to have sex with 14 year olds, that was NOT fine! Luckily our society changed it back to 16 years old for the age of concent.

It just goes to show: society and law are mutable things!

@markust123: do you get your sexual jollies from being abused over the internet? Just wondering...
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Male 1,268
"then they weren`t "homo" sexuals eh?"

I`m fairly certain you`ve never actually met a homosexual person if you make this statement. That, or you`ve never had any real responsibility in your entire life. I`m actually going to assume it`s scenario two.

Here`s a bit of life for you, people (including homosexual people) get stuck doing things they don`t want to do because it`s required of them. By family, friends, society, or simply to survive. There ARE plenty of homosexuals in "loving" heterosexual marriages both now, but far moreso in the past. Some times you just have to suck it up and realize you don`t get to love who you want to love.

Ideally, the government shouldn`t be the one to make this decision for you.
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Male 4,431
5Cats, you continue to blow my mind! :-) Perhaps one day homosexuality *will* be protected from discrimination, just as race, gender and religious choice are. We can only hope.
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Male 4,999
"@markust123: Show me where I`ve been bigoted against homosexuals in my whole life. Show me where I`ve been intolerant of them. You can`t, because that hasn`t ever happened except in your fantasy world."

Every time you spout your intolerance and bigotry in these gay posts you are called out for it by many people. It is you who is living in a fantasy world where you can`t see the hurt you inflict.
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Male 2,419
Stand4Christ
ever get your hair cut?
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Male 40,728
@PsychGeek lolz! I agree eh? Hey! Back me up on the Skinner Experiments plz!

@FoolsPrussia: Gladly!
Mutual sexual attraction and activity with the same gender = homosexuality.
NOTE: It has to be "mutual" just because I like banging @I-IS-BORED up the anus doesn`t make ME a homosexual!!! Plus I`m not attracted to him, he`s just... convenient!

@tacks: No one is COMPARING homo- with beast-, BUT the arguements supporting both activites are identical. Not correct or anything, but verbatum identical.
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Male 1,754
Stand4Christ is a troll. I`ll always do what`s right regardless of what someone tells me; you`ll do whatever a 2000 year old book tells you, regardless if it`s right. Think for yourself and quit allowing a book written around 2000 years ago by men to dictate your choices and beliefs in life. That`s absolutely insane.
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Male 4,431
Stand4Christ, I can quote and quote and quote the Bible and things listed as sins. Yet many of those things don`t seem to be important to modern day Christians. Some do, obviously. Please understand that I`m not trying to criticize you, but, why do you choose some sins as still sinful, and others as not? I`m genuinely curious.
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Female 155
So it`s okay to compare homosexuality to bestiality, but it`s not okay to compare it to interracial marriage?
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Male 35
... to have sex outside of marriage. Homosexuality is a desire, a sinful one, just like the desire to look at porn, and it needs to be called what it is. It is not the same as being black, it is a desire to have sex with the same sex, it is not the same as being from a certain race.
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Male 40,728
[quote] The government protects religious choice as a civil right and adherents as a protected class.[/quote]
Exactly @SmagBoy1! Someday America may also protect homosexuality as a `civil right` as we do in Canada. Until then there is NO comparison.

@I-IS-BORED: your point might make sense IF (and only if) heterosexuality wasn`t also learned...
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Male 3,445
Please state your definition of homosexual and heterosexual, then. If anal sex with another man is not homosexual activity, I can infer that you believe male-female penetration is not heterosexual.
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Female 1,798
@ Stand4Christ:

please, PLEASE just shut up. thanks! :-)
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Male 40,728
[quote]taking it in the butt from another dude for one night[/quote]

That`s NOT homosexuality @I-IS-BORED, but nice try...

@FoolsPrussia, then they weren`t "homo" sexuals eh? If you play fast and loose with your definitions, it`s EASY to make your arguements sound good.

@markust123: Show me where I`ve been bigoted against homosexuals in my whole life. Show me where I`ve been intolerant of them. You can`t, because that hasn`t ever happened except in your fantasy world.

(sorry, edited those darn typos!)
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Male 35
I know this will fall on deaf ears, but here goes anyway:
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who *substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who *substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20 NASB
Sin is real, and homosexuality is a sin, the same as someone who is inclined to steal, cheat, lie, disobey their parents, porn, pre-marital sex, ect. It`s all sin, and one is not greater than the other, and we all sin in some way, every day. Some sins are easier to control than others, some never learn to control their sins, but that is not the requirement for heaven. You simply must try to stop, to repent, to call evil what is evil and good what is good. I sin, badly, nearly every day. I don`t hate my-self for it though, I ask for forgiveness and try to move on and do better next time, because I know Jesus loves who I am, and does not hate me for what I do. Homosexuality is a sin, the same as being born with the desire...
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Male 2,419
@5Cats
It`s as much homosexuality as going out to a bar and meeting a member of the opposite sex is heterosexuality.
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Male 3,445
You know what else is learned, 5Cats? Bigotry and intolerance. It`s a product of your environment.
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Male 4,431
5Cats, it goes beyond the government not meddling with religion. The government protects religious choice as a civil right and adherents as a protected class. So, too, of one`s racial choice regarding spouse in marriage. As such, it follows that discrimination (including laws prohibiting it) against gays choosing to marry should be equally protected. Which makes the comparison from this link/discussion entirely 100% valid.
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Male 2,419
If you think being gay is just a choice, go try being gay for a year, or a month, or a day. Just choose to like taking it in the butt from another dude for one night and go have some fun. We expect a full report in the morning.

Why would anybody CHOOSE to be discriminated against?
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Male 2,419
"#1: A `tendency` is not a genetic trait. Neither is a `predisposition`. "

Ever heard of a genetic predisposition?...

"#2: IF being gay were genetic, it would count as a disease since it prevents the reproduction of your DNA. Please note the I DO NOT believe it`s a disease in any way, I believe it`s a choice, m-kay?"

That`s not even what disease means...

"#3: Heterosexuality is learned, it is NOT genetic. This has been proven over and again."

Huh? Heterosexuality is certainly genetic or none of us would be here. If dumb cave man didn`t like women at all they would never make babies. Saying mating isn`t something your DNA tells you to do, Salmon swimming up river just look like a bunch of retards.
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Male 4,999
@5Cats "The truth hurts, eh?"

Your bigotry and intolerance is what hurts.
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Male 3,445
"if it prevents your DNA from being carried on, it is by definition a disease."

Except it doesn`t prevent your DNA from being carried on. Plenty of gay men throughout history have managed to have families quite easily. Frankly, calling homosexuality a disease is straight bigotry.
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Male 40,728
@hi2pi: Heterosexuality IS learned, how can homo- NOT be learned also? Are YOU saying heterosexuality is genetic? Really?
@nubblins: I applaud your consistancy!
@FoolsPrussia: It`s learned, you don`t consciously "choose" it.

I didn`t wake up one morning and say "I know! I`ll have a sexual fetish for Korean girls!" eh?
nttawwt...
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Male 40,728
@markust123: The truth hurts, eh?

@LillianDulci: #2 if it prevents your DNA from being carried on, it is by definition a disease.
#3: Skinner Box experiments, look them up, there`s hundreds of them, replicated 1000`s of times. They proved beyond ANY doubt that things like "motherhood instinct" (indeed, almost any `human insticnt`!) and heterosexuality being inborn are false.

People don`t "choose" to have sexual fetishes either, but we, I mean `they`, have them! And those are learned, you`ll agree to that right?

@Smagboy1 It`s true, religion IS a choice! That`s why the US government isn`t supposed to meddle with it, eh?

Current law (AND societal belief) says marriage = 1 man and 1 woman. Until that changes, like it has in Canada, it`s moot to argue about why this and why not that.
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Male 3,445
Ah yes, I remember when I chose to be heterosexual. It was in band class...they told us to pick an instrument and all that was left was a flute and two cymbals.

The good news is that 5Cats is in Canada. The bad news is that there are a lot of Americans who think the same as he does.
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Female 1,743
*regardless of race, orientation, socioeconomic status, etc.
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Female 1,743
I don`t see why consenting adults should be barred from getting married. It`s basically the same thing.

I`m for polygamy between consenting adults too. ;)
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Male 736
OK, so having an opinion is one thing, and I guess you have the right to the opinion, but if it`s demonstratively wrong then you`re going to have people make fun of you. that`s the way it should be. I can believe that the world is flat if I want to, but then to insist that people respect that opinion is infantile.
similarly, holding the opinion that sexual orientation is a choice is demonstratively incorrect, and thus opens you up to ridicule. i will not respect ignorance, I will not support anti-intellectualism.
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Male 15,259
This is all BS. Interracial marriage is just as valid as gay marriage or heterosexual monoracial marriage. Partially black dude should get that.
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Female 2,674
Also, ignoring the fact that gay people don`t choose to be gay. How is this argument wrong?

Black people used to not be able to marry outside their race. They could still get married, like everyone else, they just had to marry another black person. If they happened to fall in love with someone who`s not black, oh well, their loss. They chose to love that person but it`s illegal so they have to marry a black person if they want to get married.

Likewise, currently gay people aren`t able to marry each other. They can still get married, like everyone else, it just has to be to someone they have absolutely no romantic or sexual desire to be with. If they happen to fall in love with someone of the same gender, oh well, their loss. They chose to love that person but it`s illegal so they have to marry someone of the opposite sex to get married.

How is 1 situation wrong and the other situation perfectly fine?
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Male 4,431
5Cats, your claim that homosexuality is a choice is your opinion. You are allowed to have it. And that`s fine. I would suggest that you`re woefully misinformed, but, that`s my opinion, and, truth is, it`s irrelevant. But in the bigger picture, what does choice or no choice have to do with this particular argument anyway? Are you saying it`s okay to discriminate against someone who`s made a choice, but not okay otherwise? Religion is a choice. A black man marrying a white woman is a choice. The law protects against persecution based on religion or on blacks marrying whites. Both are choices. I`m not allowed to discriminate against Christians, nor those who marry outside their color. The law protects them from me in that way. Yet they`re choices. So, to me, whether or not homosexuality is a choice is 100% irrelevant to the bigger argument here. As such, I believe you`re mistaken.
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Female 2,674
@5Cats
#1 - A predisposition is genetic in some way. But being gay is neither a tendency nor a predisposition. It may not be set in stone genetically in the same way that being black is, but it`s still something people can`t control (unless they`re bi, in which case they`re not gay, but they`re perfectly capable of loving either gender).

#2 - Not everything is a disease just because it`s not typical to every single human. Gay people, unless they have a condition, are able to have kids. They just can`t have them with their preferred partner. This is unrelated but would you say that infertile people have a disease? It`s not classified as a disease as far as I know. A disease tends to imply something that can be cured.

#3 - Wtf, heterosexuality is learned? Mind providing peer reviewed research on that claim? Should be easy for you since it`s been "proven over and again".
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Male 4,999
Why do you feel the need to come into every gay post and hurt people 5Cats? I don`t get it.
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Male 40,728
Oh I almost forgot:
#3: Heterosexuality is learned, it is NOT genetic. This has been proven over and again.

@Kain1, people keep saying there`s "homosexual animals in the wild" but I`ve never seen evidence of it. Whenever I examine that claim it`s either not a `wild` animal, or it`s not `homosexuality` but something else entirely.
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Male 4,999
Black teenagers do not fear that their parents will find out that they are black and kick them out of their lives. Black teenagers do not fear that their church will find out that they are black and kick them out. Black teenagers do not fear that their friends will find out that they are black and throw them out of the circle. This fear is very real for many gay teenagers.

Yes the black community has had it harder than gays but at least they had the safety net in their personal lives. The two groups really need to stand up together against intolerance, bigotry and hatred.
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Male 40,728
"You can`t change if you`re gay" Um, not really! Heileman`s entire arguement is based on this, and it`s false. Being "black" is in your DNA, being gay? Not.
It`s a false equivelancey, a bad arguement that falls flat on it`s face.

Flame away! But keep in mind:
#1: A `tendency` is not a genetic trait. Neither is a `predisposition`.
#2: IF being gay were genetic, it would count as a disease since it prevents the reproduction of your DNA. Please note the I DO NOT believe it`s a disease in any way, I believe it`s a choice, m-kay?
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Male 3,445
Michael Steele is an idiot.
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Male 39,880

@ Michael Steele: "Local Standards" from "state to state" was how they tolerated slavery. Wanna rethink that arguement?
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